Should non students be able to join school clubs, teams?

From my volunteer experience, there are a few parents who do most of the work for student after school activities. Many parents of traditional brick and mortar students work outside the home and one could argue they have less time to volunteer than a parent staying home to educate their child. Also, many parents of charter students are expected to volunteer in the charter school and are willing to do a little extra for their child’s education. Allowing children from the community to participate in extracurricular activities is not only the right thing to do, but it is the best thing to do for all the children of our state.

My middle child who is schooled at home participated in a paid after school program at the local school this year. The program’s director recently pulled me aside to tell me that my son not only fit in with the 60 children he didn’t know, but his behavior was superior to that of the school’s students.

All children should be held to the same standard of behavior at the school.

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@TC – I have no problem with Tim Tebow doing that. However, I bet that he paid a fee to pay for the experience of playing football at that high school!

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Also, as a club sponsor, I do think that I would quit rather than accept a student outside of my school. No one forces me to sponsor a club and this would be my choice.

I think that it is wrong unless that outside student pays a fee.

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Maureen-Can you clarify how the after school programs are currently funded? Maybe by category, i.e. band, atheletic, academic. If virtuals and charters are fully funded, they could pick up the tab for their students participating in the programs. Also, all students participating should be held to the same financial obligations regardless of where they spend their school day.

@HS Public Teacher- One could argue the tax paying parents of the virtual and charter school students are being taken advantage of.

What is best for all students should be the deciding factor.

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I agree with those who wonder about funding. As long as the money is coming from the tax dollars that the parents are already paying, then fine, but they should have to cover whatever isn’t. The schools fund raisers should not cover anyone who doesn’t participate.

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I wonder how the GHSA (Ga HS Assoc) will look on this as to eligibility for athletics.

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Kst.. unless you are willing to raise funds for the school’s activities, then I’m afraid I would be against your homeschooled kids being involved with clubs or sports at my kids’ schools. You don’t get to have your cake and eat it too.

There are tons of private clubs where your kids can get involved in all sorts of sports and activities. If you want your homeschooled kids involved in extracurriculars… then pay for it with the private clubs but stay the heck away from the hard earned funds that we raise for our own students.

I have led clubs at school before, and I wouldn’t quit if I ended up with a kid outside of the school community in the club, but s/he would definitely be at the bottom of the heap as far as club involvement/benefits and as far as my engagement or interest. If they want to just come sit and watch, fine but that would be about all that would be available as far as I was concerned.

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The Greeks called this idios–rejecting the community unless it is for personal advantage. Rogers and his cronies will destroy the public education in this state and ignore personal responsibility, in the name of racism, classism, and religion. Once Americans accepted the responsibility of education their neighbors and embraced the notion that others’ children matter too. This is naked self-interest and gross idiocy. Essential to education in a democracy is learning how to engage and interact with others, no matter how different or disagreeable. This encourages folks to live the life our founding fathers deemed destructive to our Republic (hence public education’s mandate in all of the former colonies). How are the same people making rules like this so that others can avoid the public school, while mandating rules to the public schools which cause people to want to leave? It is preposterous and scheming.

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First we find out a student who has never attended a high school can be that school’s valedictorian. Now we are supposed to let youngsters participate fully in extracurricular activities who don’t attend the school. This is insane. If you want your child to participate in activities and receive honors, enroll them in the school. Tim Tebow? If you are too Christian for your child to be educated in a public school he or she should be too Christian for extracurriculars at that school. We have rules for where you have to live and that makes sense. It also makes sense to require a student to attend a school full time, unless handicapped, to participate in that school’s extracurricular activities be they sports or music clubs or honor societies.

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I can tell you for sure that my chorus program runs on fundraiser money and that is it. We do not receive anything from the county any more. We survive on the generosity of our community.

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[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by EDUBEAT, Maureen Downey. Maureen Downey said: Should non students be able to join school clubs, teams? http://bit.ly/fOjuw5 [...]

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Absolutely horrid idea!!! If the child wants to participate at the middle/high school level they should attend the school – Period!!! The concept of most is a cohesive team and the pain, suffering, fun, field trips, etc. that regular education offers that home school does not helps make a team what they are. Can anyone truly imagine a “team” oriented event where many on the team are not truly team players because they seperate themselves during the day. HOW does that make any sense??? The attendance of classes is part of what makes the team have a cohesive mindset. Many teams are even called based on their school…how can someone that is not a student of the school be a member of the school when it suits either the student or the team??? If we do this why not pay the students for participating??? Ludicrous politicians swayed by parents afraid kids will be taught science.

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Of course they should be allowed in. I have volunteered in every activity my kids have participated in, doing both fundraising and general support, and there are always a core group of parents who take on the lion’s share of the costs and the effort. Who’s to say that the parents of nonenrolled students won’t be some of those? It is also true that their tax dollars pay for the auditoriums, the art studios, the sports facilities and all the teachers that sponsor the programs, and that those dollars are not being spent on their own children.

If you want to use the schools as labs for democracy, letting the maximum number of people participate is crucial. Just because they want to pick and choose what elements of a public school they want to participate in doesn’t make them ineligible for everything, especially when they’re paying for services they don’t use.

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Even when schools fund after school activities, their overall funding is based on the number of students. Unless there is some fiscal accounting for extra after school students, you drain the resources of the local school beyond the standard tax contribution…as mandated by the state, not the local area where most of the funding originates.

If that works for you, I’d like to add some expenses to your local area (not mine) because I, like most here, pay state taxes in GA. This is an example of the state imposing unfunded mandates on county & city governments. Exactly what states complain that the federal government does to them.

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Band is not an after school program. The extension and extra practice is after school, but the students learn music and the basics during band class during school. How could a band having extra rehearsals after school for a festival be assured of the same caliber and student level if some parent was trying to teach their child. Would, because of the decreased level of musicianship of this student, this cause the band to be judged a III? It could happen. There is also a liability and discipline issues which need to be addressed among the many more issues. If you are not happy with the public schools and public school students during the day, why would you want your children to be at the schools and associate with our students after school?

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@CDC that’s a ridiculous argument! If going to school together is such a requirement, what do you think of the success of all the elite, private, travel ball/dance/cheer/swim clubs that are out there? Many schools don’t offer every sport or club and so many students are forced to partipate in non-school teams or clubs and yet they still excel and some of them even get scholarships to college for those things.

I went to a high chool with 2500 students. It was rare that I participated in any activity or club with my actual classmates.

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@flipper. considering one of my kids is sitting in an on level English class where 75% do not know how to read and he just got a 650 on his Reading SAT I would say eating cake is not what we want to do, funny we were thinking he might actually get an education.. that is a joke here in Georgia. I home schooled one last year,she went back this year and she is now so far ahead of her peers she just twiddle’s her thumbs in the top level classes making straight A’s. I have no problem funding with my tax dollars (note that please) or raising private money for any after school activity they would attend. I guarantee the home school families not only would raise money for their activity they would do it more effectively then the current practice of selling wrapping paper. That is usually why they leave public schools in the first place as the lack of critical thinking and imagination is absolutely appalling and don’t worry you wouldn’t be a club leader for long if a home school parent gets involved.

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@fultonschoolparent-I know several currently enrolled public school students who are not vaccinated.

Some families choose to educate their children at home because of the ineffective discipline in public schools.

@catlady-I agree, get the education taken care of and if time and resources allow provide the extras.

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I can just see it the Fundamentalist Christian Home Schoolers mocking the Muslims who attend public school. The Christians would want a Jesus prayer before everything. It just wouldn’t work. They have taken their kids out of public school to brain wash them from reality already.

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How does all this fit in with Georgia High School Athletic Association rules? Has anyone thought about the liability associated with non-student participation? If the parents want their kids to participate, why can’t they be enrolled in their local PUBLIC school?

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As a homeschooling parent, I prefer my children not participate in government school activities of any sort. My wife and I work very hard to provide for our family with just my income. We make many personal sacrifices so that our children can participate in the extracurricular activities that interest them such as scouting, music, baseball, soccer, karate and gymnastics. We choose to spend our money for our children to participate in these activities at places of our choosing instead of where the government tells us they can. But not everyone has that option which is why I have no problem with homeschooled children having the option to participate at their local government school since their families are paying the same taxes as everyone else that pay for that school. But I also believe if they choose to participate then they should assist with the fundraising activities as much as the average government schooled students do. That sounds pretty fair and simple to me.

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Homeschooler…you pay the taxes for the right to send your children to school. If you elect not to take part of that service that does not give you the right to this monetary unit in other ways. If that was…how many would elect not to pay for military programs or pork barrel programs or any other program that we currently pay that many of us disagree with. Are you saying Americans should have the choice of what to pay for with our taxes and if we aren’t happy we can just stop paying? Wonder what chaos that would cause? Would there be policemen? Firemen? Or is the logic flawed in some way?

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I cannot believe my grandfather died fighting the Nazis in WWII; just to have that thug Chip Rogers implement the same tactics over here. The government needs to stop spending other people’s money!

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There’s nothing that says students wouldn’t have to go through the same admission/registration process as another student (verification of where they live, verificiation of vaccines, etc.) Some parents don’t feel like the education environment of a public school classroom is the most effective for their child and yet they would still like their child to have the ability to participate in certain clubs or activities. I’d be ok with the school counting him as an addendum to the student population since I pay taxes (more than the average person in my area) and if I weren’t sending him to a private school, he’d be attending that public school using up more resources.

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I homeschool and have no interest in my child attending sports or clubs at her home school for 2 reasons: 1) I don’t really think she would really enjoy a club where everyone else but her already knew each other and spent lots of time together 2) There are a multitude of homeschool clubs, classes and co-ops that are available to us, where her peers are also homeschooled so everyone is on equal footing socially, so to speak. (and we take advantage of many of these! )

However, I would support inclusion for those who wanted it, and think you guys are really underestimating homeschool parents in the areas of fundraising and volunteering. Remember that we have to be involved and present for ALL areas of our kids education and the myriad of outside homeschool opportunities available ARE available because of us, the parents who run them. We are USED to fundraising, organizing, co-teaching and just being involved, in general!! So I really don’t think doing so at the local school would be a problem for most homeschool parents….

Also, as others stated, I pay taxes but my child does not use any of that $ by attending public school…so we are enlarging the community resource pot but choosing in addition to use our individual resources to educate our child, instead of her using public resources. More for the other kids that way – so we are actually doing yall a favor!

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GHSA needs to move into this century. Many states allow home schooled children to attend sports at the school they are zoned for. In Tim Tebow’s case not only did he play, when he wanted a more competitive team he moved. The home school sports that I know of are all run by parent volunteers. So I think the thought that the parents would not contribute time and money is inaccurate. I would think that the individual that involved with their child’s education would be just as involved with an extra curricular activity. To the blogger that mentioned Christians would want a prayer before everything, perhaps, but not everyone that elects to home school does so because of religious beliefs. I’ve know parents that did so because their child was in a car accident, under going treatments for cancer etc. It was easier to navigate school and the numerous Dr. appts by home schooling the child. For those students attending virtual and charter schools; the state does not fund those students the same making it difficult to offer some of the clubs and sports options. The school could make it mandatory that the children have an adult stay during the program, volunteer a certain amount of time. I know for HS sports such as Track and XC, parents pay a nice fee to cover uniforms and such and then write a hefty check to the booster club. I would expect the parents of any child participating to do the same. The earlier blogger that mentioned field trips and such is accurate. I often found I could take my child to the destination much cheaper myself, but we needed to cover the costs of those that didn’t pay. And sometimes those parents were in the McMansions. So whether you volunteer, pay to the foundation, booster etc. there are the 20% that do 80%.
I also think the time is quickly approaching when we must decide what is the function of the school to educate or enrich? Maybe we should all pay for education beyond 10th grade. Before all the art and music lovers crucify me, I understand they are important, I’m just not sure that we continue to expect the public school to address every need and desire.

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@CDC I was a cheerleader in HS and most of the time, I couldn’t tell you who was a football player or who just scored for that matter. Most of the time the cheerleaders are trying to get the crowd fired up to cheer for the players and aren’t even looking at the field (I honestly didn’t have a clue about the rules for football until my son started playing as a little guy).

Oh and the big HS I attended was NOT in the metro area, actually it was one of the south GA football power houses. AND I was so bored with HS classes that by the time I was a senior, I was going to college full time and ONLY came to school to particpate in extra-curriculars.

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After how raped, robbed, and pillaged taxpayers have been by the schools for years — regardless of whether they’ve utilized those “services” — whining like this would comical if it didn’t border so close to insulting. Given my druthers however, I’d happily opt out of throwing any more money down the increasingly dry hole of public “education”, but then the whining would be a threat to our hearing.

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ALL extracurricular activities should become community-based activities – like those soccer/football/baseball leagues for younger kids. Those leagues should be able to lease public school facilities for free or for the actual cost of maintaining the facility. Parents of children who want to participate should be made to pay – in some ways, including payment in kind.

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Another non-issue to distract us while they continue to eliminate all funding for public education. I don’t really care if people want to home school (I am glad all your children are so well adjusted, the “home-schooler’s” I’ve taught were not) but why would you want your darlings corrupted anyway.

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We have two home schoolers (twins) who started in my son’s class in middle school this year. They are both in remedial classes, (no disabilities), but their parents are quite well educated. I don’t get it. My son says that they are both also very, very weird.

I guess if these parents want to get their kids into sports and school clubs they’ll need to home school again because the kids’ grades are two low for clubs and sports so long as they are in our school system. They are both failing math.

There’s the ticket… Little Johnny’s failing out of school but wants to play football. Pull him to “home school.” Then he can lay around playing XBox all day, and get back on the football team.

Oh! This is brilliant legislation. One of the sponsors must have some caveman son who can’t pass at the local high school and got kicked of the football team.

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I think it is time to face that times have changed and we have the technology and resources to improve education IF we choose to embrace it. Listen folks, the same old same old isn’t working and hasn’t worked for a long time. I had virtual classes for my masters program and I liked it. I did my classes at my own pace and didn’t have to worry about other students or their behavior problems in the process (a room full of other people can be distracting especially when the pace of learning is different). Virtual classes work well for many types of students as the ones who are quicker can get through the material faster and further their education past the curriculum without sitting around bored all day and the students who need more time can have that time to really learn without the pressures of being embarrassed in front of classmates etc. We had to go to campus once a week for tests etc, but that was easy enough to do.

If virtual school had been available when I was in school I would have done it for multiple reasons. In math and science I am faster than most and it was hard to sit through those classes. Also, I was picked on in Junior High so it would have made my life a lot easier not to be tortured on a daily basis (Character building? Yes, but nobody needs that much character). I think some people may not realize that for many kids school can be torture and I know it is even worse now than in my day. Just because regular school works for your kids doesn’t mean it is a good fit for everyone. In high school I did debate, which was a class, but my parents would have made sure I had transportation to my activities and I would have just attended the class and club. And they would have paid and participated as much if not more than the “regular kids” parents.

These are good options for improving education and we should try to get ahead and not do things one way only because it’s our comfort zone. It seems like people who are against this are against change of any kind. As for liability etc, there is as much of a chance that a “regular kid” will sue as there is for someone doing alternate education.

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If this passes it’ll be a bonanza for high school athletic coaches. They’ll be able to recruit any kid from the “attendance zone”. As someone previosly pointed out that’s how Tim Tebow was discovered.

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Public school classes are geared toward Georgia Performance Standards. Students are also tested against these standards.
How is the performance of non-public schools students evaluated?
How will schools determine if a student is academically eligible for extra-curricular activities.
I am all in favor of home-schooling, though all my children attended public school. However, when families make decisions, they must understand the trade-offs and the consequences, and be willing to accept them. I don’t like them changing the rules to their benefit.
I’m not sure why a family would choose their own educational methods, but then willingly submit to public school administration in extra curricular activities.

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Certainly homeschoolers should have the right to participate in our schools – the schools are for the children in our community! I think we should wonder at the defensiveness of those of us who work in schools who would withhold a service from any child who could benefit. There could be equitable ways to work out the financial commitment; from what I’ve seen of homeschoolers, the parents would probably be the leaders in fund raising and participation as volunteers. They don’t seem apt to drop their kids and not be involved as some of the parents we have. Very funny to me that people will complain about homeschoolers as isolationist (a stereotype I’ve not seen born out) and then advocate *we* keep separate from *them.* What is so threatening? People are very quick to circle the wagons and keep people out. The homeschooling families I know would be nice additions to the clubs I sponsor, tho’ frankly they are so busy, I don’t think that opening it to homeschoolers would result in many takers.

I’m not scared of ‘em – we can work out the details! I say let’s have our schools be a real source of community — welcoming and inclusive of children whose families are anxious for them to participate.

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Just wanted to say from the person who thought homeschoolers might mock the Muslims in schools — two of the families I know who homeschool are moderate muslims! I think you have “bought” the image “sold” that homeschoolers are monolithically Christian fundamentalists. True, while they had a large mouthpiece in the gov’t there for a while (Moral Majority, Jerry Falwell, etc.), homeschooling among them did grow. But the homeschoolers I know best are NOT evangelical Christians. A number of the families volunteer in various orgs I’m in and at a museum I frequent, and they are diverse — religiously, politically, and so on.

Again, I think this is another example of people going straight into “us vs. them” mode. I am sorry to think that this attitude springs from those who have children in school or are teaching in school. Not very tolerant of *us* while *we* accuse *them* of possibly not being tolerant. I think we have a little more work to do…

And why should we take care of ones who don’t attend our schools? Because serving the community’s children is our mandate. Without that, we don’t have a mission; without the mission, we don’t even have jobs.

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Folks, remember that these families do pay into the system with the local school portion on their property taxes. This is significant money considering no additional teachers or staff are hired. That is a lot of money.

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What about 8th graders being allowed to play JV sports at the matriculating high school, taking away slots from Fresh and Sophs that actually attend the school?
Druid Hills, Decatur High and others do this.

The majority of the Decatur High School JV soccer team is made up of Renfroe 8th graders. JV parents are not happy.

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I think the rec dept ought to handle sports, and the schools ought to handle academics. Period.

Not that it’s going to happen in Georgia.

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My children who learn at home are involved in 4-H, Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, band, and Duke TIP. I am involved in all the programs with the exception of Duke TIP. I wanted my children to have these experiences and I sought them out or started the groups for my children and other homeschooled children. I would like to add that the other parents are very involved in the groups as well.

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1) My kids are in private school.

2) I pay for them to attend private school because I believe it’s easier for them to learn in a disciplined environment. (During the time I spent teaching, the public schools didn’t facilitate that type of environment–several factors involved, few of which had to do with the teachers & administrators themselves.)

3) I would prefer for my children to attend school in their local district. I believe it’s important for them to socialize with children from a broader mix of socio-economic & racial groups than make up their current school population. I will not, however, sacrifice the learning environment to meet their social needs.

4) Allowing children who live in the school district to participate in the extra-curricular activities is not only fair, but it builds a sense of community. It shouldn’t be an us vs. them mentality. We all live here. Our children play together in the neighborhood. Why can’t they play together in marching band?

5) Arguments re: funding are ridiculous. I know quite a few other parents whose children are enrolled in private school, charter schools, & home/virtual schools. When it’s required, they tend to either a) be hyper-involved in fundraising & volunteer efforts or b) opt to buy their way out of fund-raising & volunteer time. I can’t imagine they’d suddenly stop that behavior, especially if they understood that there’s a parental “cost” to extra-curricular activities. It’s like any bureaucracy…you only have to create the forms & figure out the rules once; after that, it’s maintenance.

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Gee Chip what’s your occupation? Let me throw an extra 100 or so clients at you and meanwhile I’ll inform you your salary is being cut….again? If you want to be involved in the activities of a public school then go to public school. Enough of the schools aren’t good enough for my children, but I want to play on your team and be part of your club. It should be all or nothing.

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I’m with Elizabeth. It’s hard enough to find teachers to take clubs these days (there’s NO extra pay for most of it) without having the added burden of students that don’t go to the school. IF they funded clubs and activities with huge stipends, then the “we pay taxes and should be able to participate ” argument would apply, but with the exception of a few sports (football et al), the other activities are largely voluntary.

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To the poster asking how the would be quarterback felt regarding Tim Tebow taking his spot. I know of similar incidents and it was a team and no one voiced that they felt slightly. The coach did a wonderful job; the coach did not recruit someone outside the attendance zone. As for sports, this type of thing happens regularly hence GHSA’s rules to attempt for it not to happen. Coaches encourage, locate apartments etc for possible upcoming football stars.

IF GA ever follows Texas’ lead and the money follows the child, many of you may think differently about the club/sports. I’ve seen more hate for this than other blogs. If you want that community feeling seems to me you would open up and allow this. Discipline nightmare, I see it each time I walk into a public school and the teachers state how their hands are tied; they can do nothing about it. So either you can or you can’t but it can’t be both ways.

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Of course as a charter school parent, I applaud this idea! The parents of children who are homeschooled or attend charter or virtual high schools, all pay local and state taxes. They are just as willing and able to volunteer as any other parent in a traditional school. I’m surprised Maureen jumped to the conclusion that they wouldn’t man the gate at a sporting event or contribute to the bake sale.

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@Fire Bad Teachers

““@Elizabeth-” come to public school and submit to our authority”
Wow, I’m speechless.”"

Why are you speechless? If a public school student misbehaves while participating in the public school activity/club that student can be suspended or banned from that activity due to behavior. If the incident is serious enough, the public school student can also be suspended from school. However, if a non-student misbehaves while participating in the public school activity/club and is suspended or banned from that activity due to bad behavior, the non-student parent can uses that law to prevent their child from being suspended or banned from an activity. Club activities are after school hours. Who is responsible for the non-student if he/she misbehaves?

Scenario: A non-student gets a late drop-off at the school to attend a club meeting. On the stairs she takes a misstep, falls and sprains her ankle. No one knows she is coming because she does not attend the school, neither students nor faculty is able to say that they saw her that day to even go search for her. No one finds her until the end of the club meeting. Who is responsible for the non-student injuries while on the public school campus?

The main issue is liability. Who is responsible for the non-student when incidents happen on school grounds?

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This is a real concern as far as supervision and liability. Last year we had homeschooled students who live in our school district wanting to attend the 8th grade end of year dance. We also had students who attend private school but live in our district wanting to participate in sports or activities that their private school doesn’t offer. This is just one more burden and reponsibility the public schools shouldn’t have to bear

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Maureen,

I had not heard that any of the states allowed the blended approach you described. I would be curious as to the outcome.

@RJ – I listed several items as desires, not just the arts. I took the stance from inside the box, meaning school provides the three R’s, then the stance that at what point do we say the school can’t be everything so how do you decide. To someone each item is important and they will cite the phrase “research proves”.

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“submit to our authority” — chilling.

Perhaps that is why we should rethink government coerced compulsory attendance. If as a society we helped people do what is right for them rather that trying to pretend everyone is the same in their learning styles and interests, we’d welcome those who choose to study at home as well as those who take advantage of tax supported options. Not being able to see this is a failure of imagination. It doesn’t surprise me that families who want to take responsibility for their children’s education may have trouble getting enough folks together for a big club-type experience, and they may have to hire out expertise to teach chemistry. Why would we not want our schools to serve them as one of the options?

Cherry picking should teach us what we are doing well; not make us hang on to it to punish people who don’t take the parts of our system that don’t work. That just doesn’t make any sense.

Failure. Of. Imagination.

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I can speak to funding of band and sports in Cobb County. These activities are predominately funded by student fees and fundraisers. Some of these fundraisers occur during the school day and some occur outside of it. If kids from outside our school want to participate, they should have to be academically eligible, geographically eligible, and financially eligible. This means they should have to pay fees at least equal to what the students of the school pay and the parents meet the same support requirements as the parents of students (in other words, spend the required number of hours in volunteer activities that support the team or club). Otherwise, it would be unfair to the students that are funding the program.

Of course, given the nature of grading at some home and charter schools, proving academic eligibility could be problematic. So could participating in fundraisers, since some occur during school.

And before I take a beating for my comments, I am school choice supporter – home schools, charter schools, and vouchers. However, when you choose a particular education option, you should recognize that you are giving up other options. These proposals smack of having your cake and eating it too.

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@Marcie,

“Cherry picking should teach us what we are doing well; not make us hang on to it to punish people who don’t take the parts of our system that don’t work. That just doesn’t make any sense.

Failure. Of. Imagination.”

Back in the real world, many administrators, teachers and parents already know quite well what parts of the system aren’t working well. Of course we should always be striving for improvement, but there are real limitations due to funding, human frailties and the requirements of justice.

As the parent of a student at a public high school, I’d love to be able to not take the parts of the system that aren’t working well for my child. Where do I sign up? There’s one teacher I’d like to dump from my kid’s schedule, pronto. I’d also like to excuse my kid from certain requirements that I think are just busy work or poorly chosen, oh and allow him to come for lunch, while we’re at it. Some of the draconian disciplinary regulations are just over the top for my responsible and well behaved child. I’d like to pick and choose those to which he should be subjected.

Well, it’s a nice fantasy. However, the fact that we can’t easily get from here to there is not, in my opinion, “Failure. Of. Imagination.” It’s just the practical reality of the requirement to serve a full cross-section of society in a safe, equitable and cost-effective manner as the taxpayers seem to require.

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By some of the logic I’ve seen here, since my kids go to a charter school we can’t use the school playground up the street (that my tax dollars pay for) and if my kid wanted to join–paying all fees–the Boy Scout troop that meets at a church that would be wrong since we’re not parishioners.

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I agree with the feelings of AJinCobb. I am not sure what the legal answer is, but to allow the homeschooler to “cherrypick” the public school experience will have a huge impact on regular ed students wanting to do the same, especially those who drive. It also fits in with the idea of dual enrollment I mentioned on another topic that we ought to consider doing away with compulsory attendance in order to solve some discipline problems, but this idea may do away with it from another angle. Effectively, home school parents only have to register their children with the local district and keep attendance and that is the extent of regulation. Parents already seem to want a junior college model with kids coming and going at will. This may be the beginning of the end of high schools as we knew them.

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My last post needs a period after enrollment in the fifth line. Sorry.

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AJinCobb, your child is doing fine. But 1/3 fail to graduate our schools. That’s huge. I fail to see how a homeschooler’s odds are much worse than what happens in my school to 1 in 3 kids.

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One more thing that I’m thinking. Homeschoolers don’t seem to me to be teaching calculus at the kitchen table all the time. They seem to be enrolling in university classes for those as high schoolers, taking those classes at community college, or getting tutors. Why would public schools not also want to be a resource for them?

As it turns out, some googling shows me that homeschoolers get accepted to college very well – Stanford says at higher rates than public schoolers, so they are covering that hard math/science pretty thoroughly if they want to go that direction. It looks also to me that homeschool moms are college grads at a higher rate than nonhomeschoolers and also a lot have advanced degrees. The families I know do outsource subjects that parents don’t want to teach, including trading with one another. Again, our schools could be a resource for them, possibly broadening the idea of school as a true community resource rather than as a lock-step closed off institution that is so separate from the real world. I think that it would enhance schools – but they would have to change to make it work.

But THAT is what we’re afraid of. Idealism is only idealism until someone makes it happen. If we don’t do it from within our schools, someone will do it outside of schools. However, I agree that government making school compulsory and then mandating standardization makes it hard to overcome the resistance to meaningful change.

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HS Public Teacher – LOL – you don’t have to worry about my kids. They already survived public schools and are doing fine. I might have homeschooled then but not many people had heard of it. Though we at times considered private school, homeschooling wasn’t really on my radar. As a teacher myself, I’m now opening my eyes to the innovation that homeschooling represents. I do all I can do in the classroom but am fascinated by the potential of school changing with the times to truly be innovative and meet individuals’ and society’s needs.

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long time educator, it sounds like the school attendance rules didn’t help. I’m not sure why homeschool regs would help. That would just make it more difficult for all homeschooling parents in general rather than help the little girl who missed school to stay home with her toddler sibling. It would be great if regs could solve everything, but alas, we only have to look at our highly regulated public schools to know that is not the case!

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States with low regulations are considered the best states to homeschool in because this gives people the most complete freedom not to do things the school way. Homeschoolers aren’t too interested in being regulated according to the methods of public education. Homeschoolers are learning in families, and schooled thoughts on accountability aren’t relevant. Some homeschooled boys might not read until 8 or 9 but be reading far above level by age 11. However, school-type accountability might have presumed that education was not taking place when the child was 6 or 7 and forced a school-type intervention – when really more time is needed developmentally. A parent may see rich pre-reading skills being built in the one-on-one situation and not be worried a bit but then have to do something that interferes with the natural progression of literacy because the school *sees* a late reader. Not to mention the fact that schools have legions of late readers and non-readers and that the same interventions don’t do magic for all students there either; thus, we end up with kids in middle school and high school who are not truly literate.

If school accountability were so great, then it would work for schools. To misapply it to families would just be taking school methods that don’t work and extending them into people’s homes.

Parents are already responsible for their children, unless they have outsourced their ed to public or private schools. Homeschooled children do not belong to the government and aren’t being homeschooled with tax dollars; the government needs to show accountability for school performance because it is using tax dollars to attempt to do its job. Just because government is accountable to tax payers does not make homeschooled children accountable to government.

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@Fire Bad Teachers,

Well said about the needlessly adversarial attitudes (although I do wish you had a less inflammatory moniker).

Speaking for myself, I’m just a parent with a child at public school, and I’ve been riled by some of the anti-public-school rhetoric that crops up on this blog. After reading a lot of disdain and hostility towards public schools, which has probably caused me to unfairly stereotype anti-public-school parents, I feel irked when this same population now seems to want to cherry-pick activities and programs for their child, from that same school whose staff, curriculum and students they’ve roundly denigrated. In reality, I suppose the homeschoolers who express disdain and hostility towards public schools are likely not the same population as those who are wanting to take advantage of public school offerings!

Although I have no objection to responsible parents making whatever choices they consider best for their child, I remain concerned that this proposal has overtones of wanting to have one’s cake and eat it too, as somebody else wrote.

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@FBT,

Very nice

Options for all would be great, of course, but cost is likely a problem.

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AJinCobb – I think you have hit the nail on the head. It is a different group that is anti-school than those who seek the ability to interact with school kids thru after-school activities or even part-time enrollment. It could be that the “anti” group has had the most media play or the loudest mouths, but that does not mean that they represent all homeschoolers.

That said, given how badly our schools have done sometimes, I’m not surprised that there is a lot of “anti” out there.

It all just gives me pause to think how can we work together rather than how can I keep them out.

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[...] I have read all the posts on the first blog on this issue, and understand the desire of homeschooling and private school parents to take advantage of the clubs and activities at their local public schools. I remain concerned about the burden on the public schools to sort out this law, if it is passed. [...]

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@Maureen: You asked about public school options open to homeschool students in Georgia that allow students to participate in some of the activities without actually enrolling. The Georgia Virtual School allows homeschool school students to enroll. There is a limit to the number of state-funded spots available to them and public school students have first crack at registration. As a virtual school teacher, I don’t have a problem with that. These families pay taxes in Georgia, so they should not be excluded from a state program.

Most of the comments here have focused on homeschool students, but what about virtual school students? Gwinnett has just now allowed students to take their full course load online through their online campus. Would you exclude those students from participating in the athletic programs at their local attendance zone?

I’d love to see the AJC highlight some of the success of GAVS.

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I’m hearing a lot of , “can’t have your cake and eat it too,” “If I could include my kids in what I wanted and still HS them, I would, but I agree it’s wrong.” etc…

It honestly sounds like jealousy for the homeschooler more than any REAL reason to exclude them. I mean, we all pay taxes.

Taxes, by the way, which I completely 100% support and agree with. Do I wish I could get tax credit toward my kids curriculum and school needs??? shoot yeah, but I still don’t believe in withdrawing all taxes from the PS just because my kids don’t go. I mean, it’s part of living in this society just like paying for road care (even if I don’t drive a car)…

But now, all of you that are opposed to this are saying… “Ok, you home-schoolers… pay us your tax money and then there’s the door… go away!”

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