Can Cherokee recognize two Etowah valedictorians?
The AJC has a fascinating story tonight about the awarding of the valedictorian title to a Cherokee County high school to a student who is already in college but is dual enrolled at Etowah High School.
There is apparently some anger being directed at Kelly McCahill, who attends the University of West Georgia through a dual enrollment program at Etowah and earned the No. 1 slot, although I am not sure why. She didn’t determine the policy that weights college credits higher. Or the policy that apparently treats her as a student at Etowah, although she’s never attended the high school.
Couldn’t they just name two valedictorians? I read about a California high school that had 58 valedictorians and a Washington state school that had 38. I understand the policies might prevent this but could there be an exception for these extraordinary circumstances?
Here is an excerpt of the news story:
McCahill took the No. 1 ranking — and hence the title of valedictorian — from Sydney Perlotto, an Etowah student who has been tops in her class since the ninth grade.
This sparked an outcry over how the grade-point averages are calculated for students who are dually enrolled in the county’s high school and college programs.
At Etowah, Perlotto’s classmates have aired their protests on a Facebook page they’ve labeled “Team Sydney.” They’ve also circulated a petition, asking that county policy declare the school’s valedictorian and salutatorian be required to attend the school for some period between their freshman and senior years.
On Thursday night, the Cherokee County school board discussed a possible policy change to lessen the chances that students enrolled in college courses have an advantage over students taking advanced placement classes. Another board discussion will be held in March, followed by a vote.
“The real problem here is that colleges refuse to give number grades and that hamstrings the school system,” said Superintendent Frank R. Petruzielo, adding that the current policy has been in place for 10 years and this is the first inequity issue raised.
Mark Perlotto, Sydney’s father, said the school system is sending the wrong message.
“They’re saying the way to be an outstanding student, which is the definition of the valedictorian, is to never attend class there, never take any instruction there and never set foot on campus for any of the activities,” he said.
McCahill attended other public schools in Cherokee County, but not Etowah, her mother said. She lives on campus at West Georgia, although she’s enrolled at the Woodstock high school. She’s felt a backlash since she was identified as the newly installed valedictorian.
“People are really angry at me,” she said.
McCahill has been warned that dead animals might turn up at her door and her boyfriend’s brother has been pulled out of class at Etowah and yelled at over what’s happened, she said.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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189 comments Add your comment
Atlanta mom
February 4th, 2011
10:05 am
But, if this PROBLEM needs a solution, how about the only grades included in the Val/Sal computation are those taken at the HS, with a minimum number of classes needed. This way the award is given based on performance within that school.
Brian
February 4th, 2011
10:06 am
This story is not extraordinary. I was the salutatorian at Etowah High School in 2006 for this very reason, and there was no fuss about it. I participated in joint enrollment at Kennesaw State University full time my senior year of high school, and because of this, was able to claim the 2nd highest GPA from a female who had held onto it since her Freshman year. This does not show that the system is flawed at all. It shows that there are not nearly enough people taking the opportunities that are readily available to them. I feel like because I made the system work for me and learned very early on to plan ahead that I completely deserved the honor, and no one ever expressed ill will toward me for this. They did, however, let me know that they would have been far from happy had I taken the valedictorian spot away from the rightful person. THERE IS PRESCEDENT FOR THIS THOUGH!
MA
February 4th, 2011
10:08 am
Really, people are impressed by somebody going to West Georgia?
free
February 4th, 2011
10:09 am
great points casey (2/4 12:07 am). it’s called LIFE and it’s a b**** sometimes.
Frontman
February 4th, 2011
10:10 am
Sorry, Atlanta mom, I missed your earlier comment. Touché.
Fred
February 4th, 2011
10:11 am
@Patty McCahill, I do not wish to denigrate the achievements of your daughter at all. She is to be congratulated for her hard work and drive toward excellence. Having said that, I fail to see why she should be awarded valedictorian of the senior class when she never attended the school. Most colleges and universities (including West Georgia I believe) require that the last year or two of classes be taken at their institution before they will award a degree. In other words, you cannot transfer to Ga Tech, for example, needing only one class to satisfy the degree requirements and expect to obtain your degree. You MUST take a significant portion of the classes from that institution to receive the award/degree. Similarly, since your high achieving daughter is attending college and NOT participating in the high school curriculum and activities, she should not be awarded valedictorian. She should receive the diploma as the school gives joint enrollment credit but having not been a part of the class it just a little bit unseemly to want to take the award from someone who has participated in the school for her entire secondary education.
As someone else mentioned, the whole calculation of class ranking is filled with inequities. My daughter is taking 4 AP classes and 2 gifted classes as a junior in Gwinnett Co. Because of the stringent coursework and grading, her numerical average has dropped somewhat and she is now ranked 30th out of almost 700 in her class. Most, but admittedly not all of the students ranked higher are taking CP classes that are not as rigorous and therefor have higher numerical averages. She knows she would not be number 1 or 2 but it bothers her that because she takes harder classes and makes a slightly lower numerical grade (but still letter grade A) others that take less rigorous classes get ranked higher. My daughter will be joint enrolled next year because as a junior she is taking the last and most advanced math Gwinnett offers but she will also take classes on the high school campus and participate as a member of the school. Again, she won’t make 1st or 2nd but if she did, as one that was present at the school, I think it would be appropriate for her or any other student in the same situation to be named valedictorian.
It is a tough call. I do think the school system has to go with the rules as they currently stand but I think they need to consider some type of change to address this situation as it is bound to happen again. More and more kids are looking to joint enroll so there will be more opportunities for something like this to reoccur. While I don’t expect it to happen, it would show greater maturity than I think she has based on her comments and those of her parents if she were to decline the position or lobby the school board for there to be a joint award. You can be “right” or “in the right” in a situation and still be wrong.
Disgusted
February 4th, 2011
10:15 am
Unfortunately this is happening all over the state. It’s all about the money the more incentive given to HS students to start dual enrollment the sooner the Hope clock starts ticking. AP classes are accepted at Universities across the country, these GPC and community college credits are not. While Tch and UGA are required to accept these CC credits most Universities do not. A good friend ended up at Auburn and none of her dual enrollment credits were accepted. Imagine what Harvard, Princeton and Stanford think about these credits. Georgia public education is a joke and this just adds to the embarassment. By steering kids away from AP courses which require a national standardized test the Georgia DOE can hide just how far below the rest of the country Georgia students are.
College Mom
February 4th, 2011
10:20 am
Disgusted, you’ve got a good point about dual enrollment credits vs. AP. My daughter’s AP English got more credit than the GPC Dual Enrollement College English would have netted?
Another question for the group — Why are AP courses eligable for Honors Points, but college courses are not? I thought the reasoning behind AP was because it was a college level course, yet the GT Distance Calculus course that many metro HSs participate in does not yield the points. A huge point of discussion for my daughter’s class last year. Several students practicing “grade management” for class rank purposes opted not to take that course or College English for that very reason. Colleges take class rank very seriously for admissions purposes.
Random Thought
February 4th, 2011
10:20 am
@Local girl
You are correct. However, HOPE did accept an 80 numeric scale until 2007 for a college prep diploma. I graduated from high school in 2004 so it did apply to me but not to the current graduates.
http://www.gsfc.org/main/publishing/pdf/2005/transcript_eligibility_now_2007.pdf
Atlanta mom
February 4th, 2011
10:21 am
Whatever happens here, please Ms. Pelotto, do not sue to regain your class rank. That happened a few years back and the student’s acceptance to an Ivy league school was subsequently rescinded.
Noelle
February 4th, 2011
10:22 am
As a former valedictorian, I am astounded that any school would pick a top graduate who’s never actually attended the school. At my high school, you had to attend through the first half of your senior year to qualify (they did allow for senior year early admissions).
Kelly’s college grades and enrollment status at Etowah are irrelevant. She’s not on equal footing with the students at the school, and it’s unfair to them to treat her as if she were.
If I were in Kelly’s shoes, I’d decline the honor. It’s the right thing to do.
Atlanta mom
February 4th, 2011
10:25 am
@college mom,
The reason val/sal/star are determined after first semester is because there are numerous activities in the spring for these students. Many of these honors occur outside the school system.
As for your question about weighting of grades for honors/AP/joint enrollment–that’s up to your school board. You need to know the rules of the game if you want to win.
Fred
February 4th, 2011
10:25 am
@frontman – yes there are scholarships targeted to the valedictorian.
@brian – your post is not clear on this but it appears your were an enrolled student at Etowah for your high school career. One of the concerns about this case is the girl in question never actually attended Etowah. Etowah is the “home school of record” but not in actual fact of previous attendance. You were proud of the fact that you used the opportunities given you and “made the system work for you” but had you been pushed out of that spot by someone that never attended Etowah but also “made the system work for them” you might have a slightly different opinion. Congratulations on your accomplishments by the way. I hope you were able to continue at KSU and do well!
SouthGADawg
February 4th, 2011
10:32 am
Why is this even news? More touchy-feely B.S. Rules are rules. If Ms. Perlotto was really concerned about being Valadictorian she should have dual-enrolled as well. Boo hoo to her and her whining parents. She should take this as a lesson in life: Life isn’t as fair as you want it to be and there is always someone better than you.
Deal with it.
Jackie T.
February 4th, 2011
10:36 am
Maybe there is some truth to this:
“They’re saying the way to be an outstanding student, which is the definition of the valedictorian, is to never attend class there, never take any instruction there and never set foot on campus for any of the activities.”
Brian
February 4th, 2011
10:40 am
@Fred – I was enrolled through my Junior and also very involved in sports, clubs and the arts. As I read it, the girl “attended other public schools in Cherokee County” means that she most likely did grow up with these kids in elementary, intermediate, and middle school. I’m sure that I would feel some resentment, and yes, Valedictorian is different from Salutatorian, but the opportunities are there and are made abundantly clear to you starting in middle school.
As far as scholarship/awards for these positions, Val. received a $1000 scholarship, laptop, printer, plaque, and mug while the Sal. received $500 scholarship, laptop, printer, plaque, and mug.
And @Fred…no…I definitely did not continue at KSU…it is a great school don’t get me wrong, but I took my talents to Georgia Tech and graduated last May with a BS in Management, Minor in Engineering in Management, and Certificate in Finance (out in 4 years!) with a job at Bank of America Merrill Lynch and am now living in Chicago. Thanks for the congrats though!
As a former student I’ll explain the policy a little more clearly:
1. College grades (guaranteed college credit, in most cases, if transferred to school of choice) come over as letter grade, letter grade is given highest possible grade (A=100, B=89, etc.) and then, when I was in school, they added on 10 points the same way that they do to AP courses (not sure if this is the case) which brought an A=110, B=99, etc.
2. AP courses receive 10 bonus points (but obviously AP courses do NOT guarantee college credit – the reason I chose never to take one)
3. (Again not sure if this is still the case) Honors classes received 5 bonus points.
I’m sure this girl’s family lives in the Etowah district and attended the feeder schools and then chose to take her talents to higher education once college rolled around.
I don’t disagree that the system is flawed and that they should demand that colleges provide actual grades in order to continue the partnerships that they have formed, but until that occurs, this girl’s accomplishments should not be disregarded!
Inman Park Boy
February 4th, 2011
10:47 am
Make every one happy and do away with the award; that’s the American way under PC rules.
Brian
February 4th, 2011
10:49 am
I can also guarantee you that Val/Sal are NOT calculated until after final spring grades are in. I was 3rd after fall semester and ended 2nd after spring.
This is just in all likelyhood the projected Valedictorian because of all of the bonus points and her track record. The other girl has most likely figured out that it is nearly impossible to get her grades up enough to surpass the deficit.
College Mom
February 4th, 2011
10:51 am
Atlanta Mom, my daughter wasn’t in school to “win”, but to get the best education she could. She did that, but it was interesting to our family how many students were playing to “win”. As long as she gets a solid education, we are satisified. She chose classes based on how they would challenge her and if they would interest her, not if class X would yield a certain grade.
I’ve attempted several discussions with our school board member on the grading policies. Unfortunately, they turn into a one sided lecture on why Fulton does things the way we do, because of course in her eyes, all is perfect. I wish that more information was available on how this works, but you need to be an insider to have all the info in Fulton County. That experience is a post for another day, however.
Random Thought
February 4th, 2011
10:51 am
@Local Girl
As for the 80 for the college prep with distinction, my point was to show that the numeric scale was an important grading tool…particularly for those that usually requires proof on this blog.
Fred
February 4th, 2011
10:55 am
@Brian – Even more kudos on the Tech transfer and the work there. Too bad about Chicago, though!
I have no personal knowledge of the girls involved and will refrain from repeating gossip but it does appear from the article that she never attended Etowah HS at all. I think that is what is sticking in everybody’s craw as much as anything. Unless she went straight to college from middle school, she had to get some credits from somewhere. It appears from the information available that as I said earlier, Etowah HS is the school of record for convenience, not in fact. And I do congratulate her on her high achievement, I just know that I would have a difficult time taking the award. But that’s just me.
@SouthGADawg – it would be very interesting to see you attitude if it were you daughter. I know you might say it wouldn’t matter but when it is your kid, all bets are off. And I do agree that often life is very far from fair and everyone needs to learn that early.
Atlanta mom
February 4th, 2011
10:56 am
@College mom,
Glad your daughter chose the best education, as did mine. At the end of the day, it’s only HS.
College Mom
February 4th, 2011
10:58 am
Atlanta Mom, we are in agreement on the fact that it is only HS. It saddened us to see kids so stressed about grades. Our Val seemed so miserable, even when accepting the awards.
Brian, maybe at your hs, things were recalculated in the spring; but that is not the case with Fulton County at this time. Very sad, and not very well known. Doesn’t really reward those that keep up the effort, but then again, wouldn’t want to make that known to the colleges, would we.
CollegeParent
February 4th, 2011
11:03 am
@AtlantaMom: Agree with you there University Admissions officer could care less where you graduated in the class, they are looking the classes you took and the grades you received. This is a very localized issue all about the rewards to be received associated with the title and more about the high school and its representation. I do understand that but Admission officers look around and beyond that to base their decisions of admissions.
Brian
February 4th, 2011
11:04 am
@College Mom – I attended Etowah, which is the school that this story is about, so I just wanted to let everyone know how things are figured out there.
etowah student
February 4th, 2011
11:05 am
This whole situation is completely absurd. I am also a dually enrolled student at Kennesaw State University, so I know the policies in place. However, I think that it is absolutely ridiculous that Kelly went to American Heritage her freshman and sophmore year and the only reason she enrolled at Etowah her junior year was so she could jet. She has never walked our halls, never sat through class meetings, and never made an attempt to be apart of our school until she wanted to claim her spot as valedictorian. This is not fair, and if it is left up to a vote, I think we all know who will get the spot. Sydney has grown up with us and knows things about us and our school. Isn’t that what a valedvictorian supposed to be about?
Brian
February 4th, 2011
11:08 am
@etowah student – thanks for the clarification about her attending American Heritage! I still don’t blame her for taking advantage of the opportunities that Etowah has though since American didn’t. That does kind of sound like a load of crap though…
Lundy
February 4th, 2011
11:17 am
@etowah student – regardless of the politics regarding this issue, please remind your classmates not to threaten this young lady or her friends, and that it shows low moral character to threaten her family with the possibility of dead animals being dumped at her house. If they have issues, they should take it up with the school board to get the policies changed.
GAgal
February 4th, 2011
11:20 am
My understanding is that the GPA is not calculated evenly for WGC and EHS. EHS uses a numeric system and WGC uses the letter system. So Kelly could get a college A and receive 100 points for that A even if her class average is 95%. Sydney could have the same 95% average in her high school class, but of course, would get 95 points and not 100. There is the disparity. Without an even grading system we don’t know the real class standing at all. Both ladies deserve kudos, but Sydney deserves to be the valedictorian. Maybe Kelly’s mother, Patty McCahill, can inform us otherwise, but I have not seen this aspect of the case mentioned in her frequent comments.
AJinCobb
February 4th, 2011
11:33 am
I have to respond to the earlier comments from people who couldn’t decipher the English syntax in the AJC article excerpt, and then in pique attributed their confusion to the article being poorly written.
“McCahill attended other public schools in Cherokee County, but not Etowah, her mother said. She lives on campus at West Georgia, although she’s enrolled at the Woodstock high school.”
This is not ambiguous and and not particularly convoluted. The decline in literacy among the educated members of our populace, exemplified by the readers of this piece, not the author, is shameful and disturbing.
melvinowens
February 4th, 2011
11:34 am
if you are not enrolled at a school, you should not be valedictorian of that school. that being said, i think it would behoove the adminstation to have two valedictorians.
Frontman
February 4th, 2011
11:37 am
Thanks, Fred. But my guess is that people are more concerned about the bragging rights than the money from potential scholarships. Lighten up, folks…
DC
February 4th, 2011
11:41 am
Why are these idiot kids threatening the family…its just an award…Also this shows the character of the girl who did’t become valedictorian…She HAS the power to tell people to stop all this hate..but she hasn’t said anything…they like it…props to the dual enrolled girl. Stay classy Cherokee…..
Let's See . . .
February 4th, 2011
11:42 am
Let’s see just how mature Miss McCahill really is . . . she understands the situation and should gracefully offer to share the title and offer to share the acceptance speech. How great would it be to show our kids that the same plateau can be reached via different paths and that the plateau can be shared for equally outstanding accomplishments instead of all this bickering and rule changing rhetoric . . .
DC
February 4th, 2011
11:47 am
I don’t know about sharing the award…she has higher gpa..its cut and dry in that aspect…we already cut out dodge ball in school so kids didn’t have to be the “loser”…I never knew being #2 was such a bad thing…
DM
February 4th, 2011
11:48 am
The reason this is confusing, is because Etowah high school is the same thing as “the Woodstock high school”. Once you get past that, it makes more sense. So, she is enrolled at Etowah, just does not attend because she is enrolled in the joint program with the University. Second of all, the administrator who is complaining that the University doesn’t grade the way that the high school wants needs to be smacked. SMACKED HARD. There is no way / reason that a university should change it’s grading scheme to fuel a high school valedictory competition. There is really no reason that you have to have numerical grades, rather than letter grades anyway. Seriously, can the teacher’s really objectively distinguish between a 98% and a 97% on an exam? No, of course not. Rather, there should be 2 valedictorians, or, the student who is enrolled at college should have some other sort of recognition (since it’s likely more prestigious / difficult anyway). Everyone involved in this is moronic. The schools, the parents, the administrators, the whiny high school kids, and worst of all, the AJC writer who can’t write a coherent or clear story (plus, the story has enormous bias towards the whiny girl who’s friends are leaving dead rabbits at the other girls’ house).
pj
February 4th, 2011
11:49 am
receiving diploma from said school + highest GPA = valedictorian. Quit all the whining and justification. It’s not a popularity contest.
Lion in ATL
February 4th, 2011
11:50 am
Evidently it’s cheaper to ‘jet’ from a public HS than a private one, so the only reason this student’s family ‘enrolled’ her @ Etowah was to save money. I’m all for saving money, and would have done the same thing for my child but the only difference is I would not let them pretend that they were actually a part of the school and therefore entitled to be Valedictorian.
Concerned Parent
February 4th, 2011
11:51 am
I am a parent of a student at Etowah. The issue is over how the county has a numeric grade average for computing the class rank versus using the grade point average(GPA) on a 4.0 scale To use a numeric weighted average has created a system where the students choose to take classes based not on rigor but on how it will effect their class ranking. There are students at EHS who choose not to take an AP class as a sophomore (AP World History) and have been able to rank higher as a Junior than a student that did take the course and made an A in it and all other honors/AP classes they attempted. This should be addressed as the core problem. Several years ago the AJC ran a story about the disparity in metro counties weighting of grades. It may be time for development of a statewide policy on weighting grades.
If he school system will actually look at all courses taken by both students, and calculate their GPA on the 4.0 scale with the extra weight given as .5 for honors and 1.0 for AP courses taken, there would be a clearer picture of who should be awarded the honor. If they both have the same GPA based on these parameters, then they both can serve as valedictorians.
Let's See . . .
February 4th, 2011
11:55 am
I’m all for recognzing achievment and NOT for giving EVERY kid a trophy to be PC, BUT this is not so clear cut and it could easily be resolved by giving two awards, one for dual enrollment and one for non-dual enrollment and recognize each for their accomplishment . . . enoigh said . . time for lunch . . .
Concerned Parent
February 4th, 2011
11:56 am
The administrator complaining about the college grading system is the Superintendent.
Brian
February 4th, 2011
11:59 am
Joint enrollment has been paid with Post Secondary Option (PSO) money as well as HOPE scholarship money in the past. The out of pocket from the parents perspective is the same – mostly books. The tuition is paid for by the state as an allocation of the money that would have been spent on the student if actually attending the high school (in the case of PSO) or by the state HOPE fund.
And @DM – the joint enrollment programs that Etowah High School offers are definitely not more difficult that the AP classes offered. Most students at the school can attest to this. Joint enrollment is in my opinion (as a former ‘jet’ student from Etowah) an easier way to obtain guaranteed college credit through simply transferring them from the college obtained at to the college of choice, whereas AP classes require a high enough score on the AP exam which some schools will not accept anything below a 5 on (read: Georgia Tech).
Casey
February 4th, 2011
12:04 pm
If I am reading this correctly then some of you are suggesting that the true Valedictorian give up an award she earned to “do the right thing”? So this is a popularity contest now based on the idea that if it was voted on then the other girl would win? Academic awards are NOT popularity contests. There is a policy in place and that policy is and should be enforced. Sometimes that is just the way life goes.
Also, a couple of people have been very rude when stating that it says “the” Woodstock high school and we misread that as Woodstock high school. Fair enough, I read it again and you are correct. Not all of us are from that area of Georgia so we don’t know Etowah is in Woodstock and just missed one word. You could have just answered our question without the insults. Please don’t disparage my intelligence because I missed one word. If you want to put up our academic and employment credentials against each other then I am happy to do that, but I really don’t think you’ll be happy with the result. My actual questions regarding the quality of the article had to do with the repercussions following the threats made to the young girl who is the Valedictorian.
Lundy
February 4th, 2011
12:07 pm
Right on, Casey!
DC
February 4th, 2011
12:12 pm
I’m sorry but taking an AP class isn’t tougher than living on a college campus and taking classes…the demand for that coveted 5 may be tougher..but that grade doesn’t affect your class grade…
Hapeville Grad
February 4th, 2011
12:20 pm
In 1973, the top two graduates of Hapeville High School (based on GPA) were both joint enrolled at local colleges (one at Ga Tech, one at Emory). Both students were well-known to the student body from previous years, but neither attended any classes on the high school campus their senior year. The school administration asked those top two graduates plus the next three students with the best GPA to give a short speech. Therefore, we had five graduation speeches and no true valedictorian – and no press coverage at all. Everyone was satisfied with that solution. Why is this story even in the news?
DC
February 4th, 2011
12:23 pm
maybe b/c the kid that is #1 is being threatened by #2’s family and friends….
AJinCobb
February 4th, 2011
12:23 pm
@Casey,
Since you mentioned twice that the misreading involved only “one word” I’ll just point out that’s not accurate. Your reading would have required not only the omission of “the” but also the capitalization of “high school.”
dadoftnt
February 4th, 2011
12:23 pm
The sad thing about all this controversy with grades, testing, and policy only proves is that the Education System in the State of Georgia is in the toilet! I come from a family of educators who worked in the Public School System and I have a first-hand experience of two students who just moved into the school system several weeks ago only to knock my child out of the Valedictorian spot. My child spent his time within this particular county-wide school system (kindergarten, elementary, middle school, and finally high school) only to say well good job, but some one else beat you to it. The title of Valedictorian or Salutatorian sure helps when you apply for colleges and universities.
Brian
February 4th, 2011
12:25 pm
I’ve already graduated college…I can tell you that AP definitely is tougher than Joint Enrollment. The fact that all ‘jet’ students are well aware of the grading policy and know that they only have to actually get a 90 in the class provides much less stress and many times less work (only 3-4 days of class a week).
THIS WILL PROBABLY PISS SOME OF YOU OFF EVEN MORE: It hasn’t been taken into account yet that sometimes if the teacher curves the class, as happened with me, the student does not even require a 90 or above to the the credit for an A. In one class, I got a 110 after all the bonuses in a class that at KSU, numerically, I made an 84 in, but the teacher said for her that an 83 and above was an A…so obviously the system is a LITTLE flawed…