Grading parents: Does this idea deserve an “F”
A friend of mine in Florida — she is a former teacher who quit last year when she couldn’t sleep and was working 15 hour days — urged me to write about the campaign in the Sunshine State to create parent report cards.
State Rep. Kelli Stargel of Florida has a bill in the works that would require Florida teachers to evaluate parents on how involved they are in their child’s education.
Here are the measures in the bill that teachers would use to rate parents: Student attendance, interactions with teachers, children’s completion of homework and readiness for tests, and children’s physical preparation for school.
Parents would receive ratings of “satisfactory,” “needs improvement,” or “unsatisfactory” on their child’s report cards.
Bills like this are largely symbolic, as even teachers would balk at the added burden of assessing not only students but their parents. (I worked in Florida for three years, and its Legislature tends to get even more carried away than ours.)
Teachers on this blog often lament that parents are the problem in education today, that parents defend their children’s bad behaviors in class rather than punish them.
(But for a parent who went too far in the other direction, please look at this wild story out of Richmond County where a mother ran over her son at an area high school. The mom and son got into an argument after the 15-year-old refused to apologize to a teacher outside the school. The mother punched her son in the face and demanded that he hand over his cell phone. The boy refused and the mom jumped into her SUV and struck him with it. His leg was injured. The mom then got out of the vehicle, grabbed her son’s cell phone and left.)
In writing this blog for the last 18 months, I’ve been surprised at the hostility toward parents. As a reporter, I found that parents in event the poorest of schools wanted their kids to do well and did what they could. I have covered daytime events at many low-income schools over the years in three different states and observed mothers, grandfathers and even aunts showing up to watch kids recite poetry or show off their science projects.
How much can we expect of parents who hold two jobs or who never did well in school themselves and are uncomfortable meeting with teachers and principals? I consider myself a pretty informed parent, but have learned that it takes a lot of fortitude and perseverance to deal with the schools.
There’s a lot of rhetoric now about holding parents accountable and grading them for their contributions to their child’s education. But is there really any way to do it? Even more importantly, is there any evidence that grading parents would improve outcomes for kids?
It seems like grading parents is a sideshow that takes away from the main issues of improving instruction, moving quickly to remediate and getting the right curriculum in place.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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205 comments Add your comment
David Sims
January 30th, 2011
2:37 am
change
As a reporter, I found that parents in event the poorest of schools…
to
As a reporter, I found that parents in even the poorest of schools…
About Time
January 30th, 2011
4:02 am
It’s about time that someone recognize the TRUE failure of the schools: PARENTS. In the last 20 years, the quality of teachers has increased, exponentially. Yet, the grades continue to plummet. Why do you think this is? It’s because the landscape of the HOME has changed. With marriage failure at 50+%, both parents working in the marriages that haven’t failed, and some groups having a 70% birthrate out of wedlock, there is NO WAY you can claim that the home is the same source of stability it once was. And it’s not just in the “poor” schools. I worked at one of the most affluent schools in the state, and it was the same way. Only instead of parents not paying attention to their kids because they had to work to pay rent, they instead failed their kids because they had to work so they could make the money needed to surpass the Jones’. In both cases, kids are ignored. And when kids are ignored, what do you think they’re going to do?!?! In the poorer communities, they join gangs. In the richer communities, they enjoy the parties and drugs that their affluent-based allowances avail to them. I’ve worked both places and I’ve watched it happen over and over and over for 20 years.
And, I disagree with your comment about parents coming to events, etc. In the school that I work at, I will teach 175 students this 18-week period. Do you know how many parents came to Open House? 6!!!! And let’s not make excuses for “parents who hold two jobs or who never did well in school themselves and are uncomfortable meeting with teachers and principals”. It’s time to MAN UP and stop making excuses. Most teachers hold two jobs, too, but it doesn’t keep us from attending to YOUR kids, who we see more than our OWN.
Want proof of the way the community views our schools? Remember Sonny’s Gas Vacation? People went NUTS because they had to keep their own kids for two days. Oh, the horror! And how about these snow days as of late? People couldn’t WAIT for the “babysitting service” to reconvene.
PARENTS send their kids to us hungry, tired, unsupported, from broken homes and failed marriages, with substance additions and gang affiliations and then expect us to work miracles. But what are THEY doing to help? Very little. And the ones who ARE helping are not the parents of the kids wrecking the system.
And what support do we get from those in power? NONE. You’ve got fools like Rep. Morgan trying to tie 50% of our evaluation to the performance of the students. That would be GREAT if kids wanted to learn, but MOST of them don’t. They just want the day to be over so they can go home and get on the XBOX and Facebook. Last week, I had a kid make a 17/100 on a test. When I asked the student why he failed something that we had studied in detail, his response was “I didn’t study, so I just marked answers, randomly.” HOW IS THIS MY FAULT?!?! But his lack of effort is now going to affect my livelihood. WHERE IS THE JUSTICE IN THAT?!?! While disappointing, is anyone truly surprised that the Atlanta Public Schools cheated?! While impossible to condone, no one should be aghast to see that as the outcome of a system under extreme pressure to try to improve with their hands tied behind their backs.
The root of the problem is that you can’t legislate parenting. Furthermore, no politician would dare address the REAL source of our failed school because the REAL problem VOTES. You’ll never win an election with a campaign slogan like “Parents are the reason our school suck”. So, instead, politicians come after us. They attack the people working the HARDEST to fix the problem. And the parents, who are more than willing to get the monkey of THEIR backs, just parrot the rhetoric.
So yes, the Florida idea is the best idea to come to education in a LONG time. If you look at the categories you mentioned, all of them are easily identifiable. And don’t think that teachers would not JUMP at a chance to have a say so in the REAL cause of failed schools. Until we start identifying the REAL cause of our failed education system, it is NEVER going to get any better, no matter HOW you continue to PUNISH the people doing the MOST to reverse a trend that they have NO CONTROL over.
HS Public Teacher
January 30th, 2011
4:06 am
Oh my dear Maureen –
You say that grading parents is a side show that takes away from instruction??? LOL! Your position shouts VOLUMES about how out of touch you are with the classroom of today!!
You seem to be fine with grading teachers. Somehow, that side show does not take away from instruction? Give me a break. Teachers that are “graded” will be putting on a show without care if students are learning.
Parents, however, are KNOW to be the #1 contributor on a student success. However, YOU feel that parents don’t need to be graded?
Your total IGNORANCE on EVERYTHING regarding education make a mockery of the ajc, news reporting, and education.
You really need to quit or be fired.
David Sims
January 30th, 2011
4:09 am
Maureen wrote: “It seems like grading parents is a sideshow that takes away from the main issues of improving instruction, moving quickly to remediate and getting the right curriculum in place.”
Grading parents is a 2nd layer of sideshowing. The actual problem is the low average of the IQ distribution among blacks, a fact amply proved by the fact that most white-student-majority schools don’t have nearly so much trouble making satisfactorily high test scores. The focus on social causes and social interventions for poor academic performance in school systems with lots of black students is, itself, a sideshow.
I think that it may be tempting to leftists to loudly condemn 2nd-layer sideshowing as a way to show themselves alert to the propaganda method of sideshowing, because it implies that they would see and denounce ALL sideshowing. Which, of course, they don’t.
There’s nothing wrong with the curriculum. Or, anyway, improving the content and the presentation of the academic subject matter won’t improve academic performance to anywhere near the extent you want. Not even close. You’re barking up the wrong tree. The problem in black-heavy school districts is the generally lower intelligence of black students, as compared with white or Asian students.
IntheTrenches
January 30th, 2011
5:11 am
Two basic ways to raise children: One, the parent is involved early on in discussing things with their kids. Meaningul interaction, ongoine. Two: the kids basically plays with other kids for their main interaction, with the parent either being disciplinarian or not involved. Teaching these two different sets of parenting results, or lack thereof, brings these different methods into clear contrasts.
The child who has had a healthy does of adult interaction can communicate with a teacher. This communication goes in both directions. They are friendly with their peers, but when the teacher interacts with them the teacher feels like a part of their experience. They know how to negotiate and express and accept different ideas.
The children raised in latter example are very comfortable with their peers, but a teachers’ interaction is viewed as an odd intrusion into their province. They can be overly shy, non-communicative, or overtly defiant. Their demeanor frequently changes immediately when a teacher shows up. It hampers them in communicating effectively, social skills, and in being open to new ideas and experiences, which an education is supposed to provide.
It is not just overt neglect, which is of course a problem, it is a fundamental difference in the way parents parent which greatly affects the students’ chances for success dealing with an adult, in ths case the teacher in authourity, and ultimately being successful in school.
Peter Smagorinsky
January 30th, 2011
5:46 am
I do think that it’s possible to disagree with Maureen without denigrating her character or value to the Atlanta education community, which I believe is considerable.
justbrowsing
January 30th, 2011
6:05 am
It has just as much merit as grading teachers does. BOTH ideas are stupid.
IntheTrenches
January 30th, 2011
6:06 am
I taught my first three years at rough school in south of the county. Probably 90% of the kids were of the “raised by other kids” (call them ‘RBOK’)variety. Those with the experience of an authoritarian/disciplinarian parent call them: ‘RBOK-d’; those with the completely uninvolved parent ‘RBOK-u.’ Its a different approach with both sets. RBOK-d’s can be motivated by small successes. They may be uncomfortable with you as a teacher, but they want to do well, even if they act like they don’t. Its probably because they havent had much success in the past. You can reach them by being the ‘parent’ who is proud of their success. So many of the RBOK-d’s get only negative feedback and harsh criticism at home. You can improve their scores, just start with small successes.
The RBOK-u’s are more problematic. If you have a student who really doesn’t care about your approval, even for small successes that you can set up, its a problem. These students are often in gangs or cliques with an outlook that is overly influenced by a violent and demeaning cultural view determined by Def Record’s, etc. profit motives. They truly do not care about doing well or what you think of them.
The only thing that worked occasionaly was to reach out and make an accomadation with the various leaders of these groups. You agree not to hassle them, give them a pass, and they give their “permission” to those below them on the ladder to at least try to do well in your class without suffering any reprucussions. You basically need their permission and you do have some negotiating strength.
I know this may sound somewhat strange to someone who hasnt been there. But the “70out of wedlock, one parent home,” etc. is certainly all true, but this is what we have to work with. It takes a special teacher for sure, and I respect anyone who is fighting good fight in these kinds of schools. Three years was enough for me.
I now teach high achievers whose parents, although they may not be involved in school, are involved with their kids. This is more important than coming to parent night, etc. I’ll be the first to say these kinds of kids are more fun and its much less stressful to teach now.
But gains can be made with the other variety, even if exhausting and frequently discouraging. I wouldnt have minded if they tied my compensation to it, either, as long as they compared my results with the same kids results in previous years, and not with the kids I teach now. That wouldnt be fair.
IntheTrenches
January 30th, 2011
6:36 am
HS Public Teacher: if you really are one, you would realize the debt that teachers, parents, and students owe Maureen Downey and the ajc for uncovering and digging into this major scandal and widespread fraud that was so rampant and destructive to the system that you and me are a part of, and to the kids we teach. Without them, none of this CRCT fraud would have come to light.
IntheTrenches
January 30th, 2011
6:46 am
I guess Im the only one reading this, but thats OK. Of course, if youre going to grade parents you’d have to give them a ‘rubric’ ahead of time, explaining the point value given for the various tasks they will be graded on. I can see it, now. The percentage of parents who already feel teachers are the enemy will double overnight. I guess teachers will have to get certification in ‘Parenting: Skills and Evaluation’: we can have inservices like ‘Differentiating Parental Styles for the 21st Century”, and offer tutoring in the morning. Who will call in for conferences? The grandparents? Sounds like a great idea.
Tucker Guy
January 30th, 2011
7:03 am
I LOVE this idea. The parents are children’s primary teachers. At least they should be.
Keep the rubric simple.
1) 10 hours of sleep
2) breakfast, including protein
3) helping with homework, but not doing the homework for them.
Elizabeth
January 30th, 2011
7:18 am
About Time said it all and makes valid points.
To Tucker Guy’s rubric I would add 3 items:
4 Mandatory attendence at conferences and school events.
5 Responsibility to get students to school daily on time.
6. Requirement to come and remove child if behavioral issues are severe enough to disturb the classroom.
IntheTrenches
January 30th, 2011
7:31 am
Rubrics of course must in detail:
Sleep: 10 hours-5 points. Breakfast: Oats or bran: 5 pts.
8 hours-4 points. Sugary cereal: 4 pts.
6 hours-3 points. Pop tart or waffle: 3 pts.
4 hours-2 points. Egg McMuffin, etc.: 2 pts.
2 hours-1 points. Soft drink, cheese doodles: 1 pt.
0 hours-O points. None: 0 pt.
Homework: Helped, but did not actually do HW: 5 pts.
Actually did HW for student: 4 pts.(shows initiative)
Asked: “Got any homework?”, actually cared: 3 pts.
Got any homework?” continued watching TV: 2 pts
Did not ask or care about HW, but present in home: 1 pt.
Not present in home, whereabots unknown; AWOL. 0 pt.
Middle Grades Math Teacher
January 30th, 2011
7:34 am
Maureen, you state that ” As a reporter, I found that parents in event the poorest of schools wanted their kids to do well and did what they could. I have covered daytime events at many low-income schools over the years in three different states and observed mothers, grandfathers and even aunts showing up to watch kids recite poetry or show off their science projects.”
I think that as a reporter, you will see a parent ONE time, and that parent is going to put their best foot forward in speaking with you. We will see these parents (or not…) and the results of their parenting, over the course of a school year. There’s a big difference between the two.
Of course parents and family members come to these events. That’s why schools pair these things with PTA meetings. It increases attendance.
I am a parent of 3 children, 1 grown and on her own, 1 away at college, and 1 in middle school. Because of my teaching career, I’m not able to go events in the daytime. You wouldn’t see me there. However, if you were to come to my home in the evening, you’d see conversations about homework. You’d see my child doing his homework and studying because that’s the expectation and he knows there are consequences if it’s not done. (At this age, he has learned that these consequences are not necessarily from mom, although that’s part of the package.) You’d see me stopping by the store to pick up a pack of paper or pencils if needed. You’d see me checking his agenda. You’d see both of us checking school/teacher websites, or going to the library for that when our internet/computer has been on the blink. You’d see me emailing teachers when I had reason to do so. And I do this even though I work a second job in order to make ends meet as a widowed mom. We’re not asking parents to do anything that we don’t do ourselves.
Not all families do this. In my 24 years of teaching, I’ve found that (generally) if a parent requests a conference, it’s really not needed about 80% of the time. The parent wants to check in, and they are doing what’s needed at home. BUT — if we, as teachers, say, “We really need to have this parent in to see if they can’t get Johnny to study, do his homework, etc.” …. most of the time this conference is going to be pointless. We’ll provide parents with a homework schedule, several strategies for getting homework done, strategies for studying, strategies for memorizing multiplication tables, our email addresses, our websites. BUT NOTHING CHANGES. I’ve seen it time and again.
I believe that welfare benefits should be tied, in part, to what parents are doing at home to help ensure their kids are as successful in school as possible. I think the three things that “Tucker Guy” mentioned would fit that bill perfectly. I would add something in there about responding to/initiating communication with teacher.
These are things that any parent, regardless of income or education level, needs to do. Most parents do this. But there are far too many who don’t.
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January 30th, 2011
7:35 am
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IntheTrenches
January 30th, 2011
7:49 am
Ive been making light of it because the notion is so ridiculous. That is outside our scope of traing. Talk about opening a can of worms. Better have your liability insurance paid up. If they want to establish criteria for acceptable parenting, fine. Leave it to a welfare agency. We trained and paid to teach and evaluate kids, not parents. I teach whoever shows up, and if the parents with me great, if not, figure something else out.
IntheTrenches
January 30th, 2011
8:13 am
Lets figure something else out:
32 kids, five classes. 30% homework compliance. Fair? For a low performing school, not atypical.
OK, did your homework? Work on this hands on fun thing, maybe snack on some doughnut holes while you do. Nice science project, kids.
Didnt do it? Fine, sit here. Do it. Don’t worry, I have plenty of drudgery for you. Got tons of it. All you want. Try not to keep stealing glances at your classmates eating doughnuts hole who manage to do homework, working on that cool project.Finished? Good lets go over it…
Now I can either do that (if I really believe homework is vital somehow to studnt achievement, which Im not) or some variation of that…or, I can try to get 70% of 150 parents to get on board for the first time in their lives, most of them.
Its called differentiation and a realistic appraisal of resources.
Middle Grades Math Teacher
January 30th, 2011
8:19 am
@IntheTrenches, very good point that we are not trained to evaluate parents. Hadn’t considered that angle. But I do think that we could provide some input via a checklist or questionnaire.
But… when all is said and done, this is all speculation. I don’t think this proposal will go anywhere.
David Sims
January 30th, 2011
8:19 am
@IntheTrenches. “…you would realize the debt that teachers, parents, and students owe Maureen Downey and the ajc for uncovering and digging into this major scandal and widespread fraud that was so rampant and destructive to the system that you and me are a part of, and to the kids we teach. Without them, none of this CRCT fraud would have come to light.”
I agree. The AJC and Maureen are doing a pretty good job of exposing the CRCT cheating scandal and some ancillary work in uncovering related fraud, waste, and abuse in Atlanta and neighboring counties. Most news organizations aren’t so laudably aggressive.
Their work would become even more valuable if they’d drop the pretenses of political correctness, though I realize that the AJC probably can’t afford to do that, since it would bring Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton running to Atlanta to bark, bark, bark, and the newspaper might lose half of its local circulation.
So I don’t really blame them for indulging PC racial equality fantasies and trying to work the scandal as if low test scores were only a matter of “some individual students who happen to be mostly blacks, just by coincidence” and as if the cheating were simply the result of “some individual school employees who happen to be mostly blacks, just by coincidence.” Capitalism wasn’t invented to serve truth. If your prime directive is making money for stockholders, advertisers, and workers, then you use the truth only when it does not conflict excessively with that purpose.
Still, the AJC has been doing better with scandals in which racial disparities are likely to be noticed than many other newspapers have. It would be nice if they’d give Lee and me a shared column in the Sunday edition, so we could take turns composing editorials sure to annoy a lot of people, but I can understand why no such offer is likely to be made.
C'mon man
January 30th, 2011
8:20 am
@about time..”In the last 20 years, the quality of teachers has increased, exponentially.” Can you please provide proof for this statement?
This is stupid idea from a pandering politician who knows how easily us teachers are played as a whole. C’mon man…
Dr. John Trotter
January 30th, 2011
8:25 am
Off the subject at hand…I see from the headlines in today’s paper that the AJC continues to push the agenda for the City of Atlanta to take over the school system. Now this will really solve everything, right?. Not. This agenda runs deep, folk. This power grab is all about power, control, and money — just as the move was about the same things in Clayton County. Just my thoughts on the matter…There was no problem with the situation in the school system as long as Beverly Hall gave the Big Mules what they wanted. It did not matter that the Hall Administration was full of incompetence and meanness. It only matters to the Big Mules when Khaatim El & Company takes over and the Big Mules’ may not be making as much money off the school system in the future. Oh…the hypocrisy at hand!
IntheTrenches
January 30th, 2011
8:25 am
Middle Grade Math: (from Middle school science) I get idea of whats going on at home the first few days of school. When I call the roll, the students answer with what time they got to bed the night before. Amazing responses! I work on the kids understanding of how important it is, and always point out sleep deprivation when I see it in class. Some are actually trying to complete mountains of homework, but when one says the whole family was up until 2 am watching a movie..I dont know, its inconceivable, really.
IntheTrenches
January 30th, 2011
8:27 am
Trotter, honestly, no offense, but can’t you just take a break?
Nikole
January 30th, 2011
8:41 am
The parents that earn an F won’t care, that is part of the reason they would be earning an F. I don’t care about parent report cards, but I would like to see government aid tied to parental duties. You would see a cycle of poverty end for many people. For example, parents getting section 8 and EBT cards, would have their money tied to their participation in the child’s school. They would have to attend at least 1 conference each semester, their children could have no more than x number of discipline referrals, they would be require to have a working phone number at all times….things of that nature. If they break any of these rules, then they are at risk of losing their aid.
long time educator
January 30th, 2011
8:44 am
I agree with everything About Time said; well done! Also, the idea of grading parents would be counterproductive and take too much of an already overburdened teacher’s time.
I would like to think about what would happen if we stopped compulsory attendance. If the school is a valued babysitter, use that service to bargain for participation. If the parent will not help control the behavior of his child, after a certain number of infractions, he would no longer be eligible to attend. Let the natural consequences of refusing to participate academically be failing grades and retention. This was truly the norm when I went to school; you really could be expelled. This would not be good for the poor children who are not being parented, but it would help the students who are not disruptive. Leaving unmotivated and disruptive students in the classroom does not seem to help them anyway. How did the schools end up trying to solve all social problems? No wonder it seems so futile. Maybe the dissolution of families should fall under another agency’s responsibility, or perhaps the community churches. Education should be an opportunity offered to everyone, with some ifs: if you will behave and if you want to learn, or at least your parents want you to learn.
NWGA teacher
January 30th, 2011
8:51 am
Devil’s advocate: It’s difficult for parents, even for educated, involved parents. Teachers use unfamiliar terms and acronyms. They expect parents to come to conferences during work hours, which can imperil their jobs (if the parents work in the afternoons or at night, and they’re paid by the hour, they also lose money). They expect homework to be completed, regardless of whether parents read or even speak English. They expect parents to come to school events which may conflict with family time or with work hours.
Teachers don’t always do such a great job with their own children. I’m guilty of forgetting to check the parent portal, and my child has missed far too many homework assignments. She doesn’t always get to bed on time; actually, she FREQUENTLY does not get to bed on time. Because PTO has always been scheduled on the same dates at her school and mine, I’ve attended exactly two of her PTOs in the past four years. I can’t schedule conferences at the proper time at her school because I have my own conferences, although I do communicate with her teachers via email. When I have to work late or have family commitments (elderly parents), her homework may not be completed. Unless someone tells me, I have no way to know how she acts at school. For all I know, she could be a smart-mouthed monster in the classroom. I don’t want her teachers to grade me; they don’t know what goes on in our lives. Unless I choose to tell them, our home life and financial circumstance is none of their business.
What is the point of grading parents? We don’t know them, and they don’t know us. Like us, most of them deal with circumstances out of their control. Whether they’re good parents or bad parents, we still teach their children. I find it difficult to believe that grading parents will affect my own evaluations. I find it more difficult to believe that it would improve my working relationship with parents.
Oh yes, I'm the great pretender......
January 30th, 2011
8:56 am
@Maureen – I have covered daytime events at many low-income schools over the years in three different states and observed mothers, grandfathers and even aunts showing up to watch kids recite poetry or show off their science projects.
Uh, what’s missing from the above, Mrs. Downey? Was this just an “accidental oversight”, lousy editing, or are you intentionally omitting something? Mrs. Downey, your support of lousy parenting is truly amazing and if you actually believe all you have written, you might be part of the problem. You should take off your “rose colored glasses” every now and then……..
Don’t be deterred, Dr. John
IntheTrenches
January 30th, 2011
9:00 am
“Whats missing from the above?” I dont know, fathers and uncles, maybe? What is he talking about?
Jordan Kohanim
January 30th, 2011
9:02 am
The proposal is a gesture–nothing more. I can’t believe we are even discussing it. When will we realize that education is not about grading and scoring? I agree with “justbrowsing;” this idea has as much merit as report cards for teachers–none.
Let’s move on to something more tangible to GA education. Namely, what will happen to public schools’ promises when the RttT money runs out in a year?
IntheTrenches
January 30th, 2011
9:09 am
You can go to Ratemyteachers.com to see a teacher ‘report card’ anytime you feel like it. Teachers do have a report card in the form of evaluations of AP’s and principals, etc. It needs to be more inclusive and not just a check off box from the county office. Evaluate CRCT scores along with it, and student and parent input, too. Why not? Is it like so confidential the public has no right to it? The problem, of course, would be the criteria they would come up with would have little or nothing to do with actual teaching. That is not so easy to evaluate as checking off a box to see if all the little i’s are dotted or not.
Georgia Teacher
January 30th, 2011
9:10 am
David Sims is 100% correct. At the school where I teach, the racial distribution is about 50/50 black/white enrollment. In the remediation classes, the enrollment is almost 100% black students. Most of the black students at our school care more about whether or not they make the football/basketball teams than whether or not they get an education. Unfortunately, many of the parents share this same point of view.
Middle Grades Math Teacher
January 30th, 2011
9:10 am
Lots of very good points here.
So, why don’t we go back to how it should be: Students are responsible for their achievement. Parents do what they are supposed to, and teachers do what they are supposed to. Students earn the grades. Not the teachers, not the parents. Period.
What's best for kids?
January 30th, 2011
9:14 am
A little history lesson: Compulsory schooling came about when the men came back from WWII with no jobs because women and teens were working. VIOLA, compulsory schooling. In the 80s, Reagan promoted “Nation at Risk” and stated that the graduation rate is too low. What happened? We lowered the standards. NCLB came around, and the teachers were at fault because the same kids who want to be working are stuck in school. We tie attendance to drivers’ licenses, work permits, and a host of other things. Bottom line: if a student doesn’t want to be there, there is nothing that we can do.
End compulsory attendance, so that the kids who want to be there can get a good education and the kids who don’t can get a job.
Remember, too, that some of the government aid for kids is tied to their attendance at school.
What's best for kids?
January 30th, 2011
9:15 am
Hear, hear, Middle grades math.
Young teacher
January 30th, 2011
9:16 am
@HSTeacher, You don’t speak for all teachers. I have no problem being graded on how my students do. I got into teaching to help kids succeed. What are you so afraid of? Are you afraid that you would be fired? If teaching is so bad and the parents are so terrible, quit. I have friends who are still looking for teaching jobs.
IntheTrenches
January 30th, 2011
9:23 am
Young Teach: Agreed. I got into teaching after another career. I think a lot of teachers are worried about being evaluated, thats all a lot of them have ever done. (Like Egon said in Ghostbusters: “You’ve never worked in the private sector. They expect results!”)
You might to have something like the auto industry in Detroit did a few years ago, massive job retraining for another line of work. Can’t just throw incompetent (or deeply racists) teachers out on the street.
Cricket
January 30th, 2011
9:25 am
Compulsory attendance laws are indeed the problem. Take away the free breakfasts and babysitting services and watch the behavior and attitudes will begin to change. In addition, the birthrate among those least willing to be responsible parents would decrease. Most of the problems we have with students would cease to exist. SIMPLE.
IntheTrenches
January 30th, 2011
9:28 am
I dont know, the kids who would drop out at 14, 15, they’ve got to be wearhoused somwhere, something like the British 1800’s workhouses, which is about the right frame of mind for that idea. Can’t having them breaking into the homes working people and boosting cars all day, can we?
About Time
January 30th, 2011
9:28 am
@ C,Mon Man: When I was in school @ 20 years, ago, Coach Fill in the blank sat be hind a desk, reading a paper during class time. He never heard the words Rubric, Differentiation, Modification, Other Heath Impaired, 504,… the list goes on. Now, kids straight out of college have been trained exponential better to deal with the multitude of variance in our society.
@Nikole: “The parents that earn an F won’t care, that is part of the reason they would be earning an F” True, but at least we’d have more realistic evidence of the why the kid is failing, rather than blaming the teacher again and again.”
@NWGA Teacher: NO EXCUSES! If teachers can’t make them, neither can the producers of our clientele.
And I don’t think it appropriate that we attack a minority community in a harsh manner. If the minority group previouslt denigrated has any major problem, it’s the number of them in single parent homes where mom (most of the time) usually does give the time to ensure success. No one is born with a substandard IQ. Those number are a reflection of environment….. which brings me back to my original point: It is the ENVIRONMENT that causes the kids problems, not the teacher.
I’ll promise you this, though. If Morgan’s bill ever passes, you will never find it more difficult to find teachers for the poorer and high minority schools of our state. Teachers KNOW what the problem is and very few will want to have their own ability to support their families tied to circumstances outside of their control. There is absolutely no justice in that.
Cricket
January 30th, 2011
9:29 am
The system rewards irresponsible reproduction and “parenting”.
About Time
January 30th, 2011
9:30 am
And I see there were some typos, but I was up until 4:00 am, grading papers. What were YOU doing at 4:00 am?
IntheTrenches
January 30th, 2011
9:32 am
I was trying to make up a test for tomorrow in science but I got distracted by this blog.
C'mon man
January 30th, 2011
9:36 am
@about time – Wow, that is some compelling evidence, especially since no academic study backs you up, at all…
Cricket
January 30th, 2011
9:38 am
“I have covered daytime events at many low-income schools over the years in three different states and observed mothers, grandfathers and even aunts showing up to watch kids recite poetry or show off their science projects.”
I have taught at low income schools day in and day out for years. This is not parent participation. This is a parent SEE and be SEEN show. They also show up in droves to when little Skippy gets his perfect attendance award. You will also see little 7 year old Skippy wearing a brand-new, never washed mini-gang outfit that day. It will be complete with the latest Nike shoes and pants that are specially made to show his underwear.
IntheTrenches
January 30th, 2011
9:41 am
There actually is compelling evidence that teachers trained more recently, whether just starting out like Young Teach, or a third careerist like me, are better trained. When Cobb dismissed 600 or so of their newest teachers due to cuts, there was a huge outpouring from students and parents that these were the some of the best teachers they had. Science teachers that had established assoiciatons with Ga. Tech, things like that. Im not saying older teachers are not just as good. The ones who continued to learn and adapt and grow are just as good. But having the emphasis on a college degree other than education, and having extra education in the form of gifted certification, does make for better training.
Cricket
January 30th, 2011
9:43 am
The same day, Skippy’s homework is not turned in and his agenda book has not been seen in weeks. He has a dollar to buy an ice cream everyday but is getting a free lunch and can’t afford to pay $5 for a field day t-shirt. PTO will buy it for him.
long time educator
January 30th, 2011
9:44 am
InTheTrenches
I’m not sure ending compulsory attendance is the answer, but I want to explore it. If students are breaking into houses, the police need to arrest them. If they are young, they would be put in YDC which has a type of schooling. It is not fun, but that would be the natural consequences of breaking the law. Suffering some consequences might increase their motivation to get an education and not end up in prison as an adult. Suffering NO consequences in school hinders that child from learning how the real world works. Why is it OK for disruptive students to interfere witht the education of those who are willing to follow the rules?
About Time
January 30th, 2011
9:44 am
IntheTrenches is correct. There have been numerous studies about the increase in teacher training and effectiveness. @C’mon man: Get real, man. I’m contributing to a blog, no writing a Ed.S. thesis. If you want to see “evidence”, Google the topic.
IntheTrenches
January 30th, 2011
9:47 am
It is not OK at all, long-time-teacher. And believe me, I have my fill of spineless AP’s when it comes to discipline. Maybe the answer is expanded alternative schools that focus on job and basic literacy. It is to society’s advantage to have an at least semi-literate population that has some way of making a living.
Dick
January 30th, 2011
9:54 am
There ain’t no doubt. It is about time someone realized it is not all the teachers fault. While we may have some teachers who can’t teach, some administrators who can’t administrate, we haved some paretns who should have gone to the movies the night their child was conceived as they are not parents,
I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming.
January 30th, 2011
9:55 am
I think this could potentially be dangerous for teachers. I have worked in “good” schools and “poor” schools…and have had both terrific and terrible parental support. Those parents who would score low DO NOT CARE! A report card will not get them to care. All it will do is make them angry… In the past, I have received verbal and written threats and late night phone calls detailing what a parent is going to “do to me” because I dared give their child an “F” (well earned, mind you.) I can just see what would happen if teachers give those types of “parent” a failing grade!
I favor a honey rather than vinegar approach…maybe take the money that would be spent on such a program and put it towards gift card for parents who fulfill certain “expectations” during the school year – such as attending so many conferences, making sure homework is completed, getting their children to school on time, etc. Perhaps business partners would be willing to donate some of these “gift cards.”
C'mon man
January 30th, 2011
9:56 am
No, you provide one link to back up a statement that is absolutely counterintuitive when considering the current state of education. A statement that is used to make hateful, disparaging remarks against hard-working parents who do their level-best for their kids. All of them? Of course not, but most parents truly care, they have just been ill-equipped by society to live up to YOUR standards for them. Stop blaming others for your shortcomings as a teacher and check yourself…
Teacher / Parent
January 30th, 2011
9:58 am
Last time I checked parents are the first teachers. Honestly, I have many parents who would fail if they were graded. When you have kindergarten kids who are not potty trained until the month before school starts, parents pushing kids to school in a stroller, and allowing them to drink from bottles- big problem. These kids do not have a disibility. The parents stated that it was easier to let the child do what they wanted. Also, many kids have never touched crayons, pencils, and play dough- to messy for parents- at least that is what the parents tell me.
catlady
January 30th, 2011
10:02 am
Given our present state of teaching prowess and our current lack of money, the factors contributing to lack of student achievement are: lack of discipline consequences to get disruptive students out of the classroom, ineffective parenting, stupid cure du jour and rules forced by federal and state lawmakers and local administrators.
Improve these and achievement will, even in these times of “poor teaching” (cough cough) and no money, increase exponentially. Unfortunately, it won’t happen, as it requires effort and commitment by more than just the teachers. Why give up your whipping boy?
Those of you who doubt this, please spend a day in a few public schools–NOT the ones in your neighborhood!
AlreadySheared
January 30th, 2011
10:06 am
“Back in the the day”, if you got into trouble at school, the punishment you got at school was the least of your worries – punishment at home would be at least double.
More objectively, I speculate that the perceived decline in parent quality (indicated by a perceived decline in student quality) is a direct function of the SOARING illegitmacy rate in this and other countries over the past 40 years. My dim recollection is that the percentage of children born into single parent (mother) households has increased from 5% of children to 40% of children today. 40%!!
I know that many single moms work very hard to do their best to raise their children, and what I am about to write may be hurtful to them. I don’t want to be hurtful, but we cannot ignore the elephant in this room. The research is very clear that, on average, the children of single parents do worse in school, have higher dropout rates, and a higher incidence of drug use, criminal behavior, and having out of wedlock children of their own.
On a personal note, my wife is a terrific mom who loves our kids, but I know that as their dad I bring additional parenting skills to the table that would be missed if I wasn’t around. Among other things, dads are often authority figures in their households. Many of the behavior problems in our schools today stem from kids who not respect authority or understand how to work effectively with an authority figure like a teacher.
homeschooler
January 30th, 2011
10:12 am
This idea just doesn’t make sense. How would we enforce this? So, a parent gets an “F”, then what? I agree with Jordan. It’s not about grading and scoring. It’s about learning. My 10 yr old child has never taken a history or science test and can tell you details about every War that America was involved in and exactly how water molecules react when heat is added.
To all the teachers. Everyone knows you’re fighting a losing battle. I’ve worked as a child abuse investigator for years. I know about fighting a losing battle. And I make 37,000 dollars a year after 17 yrs of service and a masters degree. I don’t have lobbiests fighting against furlough days and for raises. I haven’t had a raise in 7 years. You have to learn to think outside of the box. How many have gone out of their way to really get to know the parents? I work in the homes of these people and most of them really care. I had the privilege of hearing Ron Clark speak. He had incredible success at getting the parents involved just by making one home visit to each child’s house. The problems are not always in the home. It’s lack of communication. Believe me, the public school system is not easy to deal with. I’ve found that, in areas where there is little parent involvement, the parents who do care are discouraged from being involved because the teachers don’t know how to deal with the ones who are trying.
So many problems. Not going to be fixed by “grading parents”.
About Time
January 30th, 2011
10:18 am
@C’mon man: Now we know why YOU stand where you do. I give a multitude of points and all you can do is attack the ONE that deals with the TEACHER. Your verbal slight of hand does nothing to make me take the eye off of the problem of POOR PARENTING. First, grading parents is far from counter-intuitive. It’s right on the money. Do you see where 10 years of teacher bashing has gotten us? Nowhere. Why? The PARENT side of the problem remains unchanged. Second, none of my comments are hateful OR disparaging. They are observations from two decades in the classroom…. a fact I am sure you can’t claim. Third, MY standards?!?! Let’s review the list from the bill:
Student attendance
Interactions with teachers
Children’s completion of homework and readiness for tests
Children’s physical preparation for school.
Wow! That’s some unattainable list! I can see why you’d feel “ill-equipped” to handle it. Your statements reveal that you’re part of the problem and your comments now render you an unreliable source for consideration. That you would decry that someone has shortcomings without knowing anything about them shows your bias (and character.) The fact is, I have nothing to to feel ashamed of. And unless you’re in a classroom, I probably do more for children in one year than you might do in a lifetime. Get over yourself.
Fire Bad Teachers
January 30th, 2011
10:20 am
What is the purpose of grading parents? If a parent receives an “F”, will this parent be inclined to put in more effort, to do extra credit work? Seriously, what is the point?
On another note, it might be nice for teachers to complete a parent assessment record for a private file. These could be considered if teachers begin to receive merit pay.
Would any of these grading systems work? NO, teachers would be incentivised to score parents lower to make themselves look better.
The reality is we live in a messed up world. Often, parents don’t act like parents and teachers are expected to work miracles. The only sollution is to assume the student is only receiving what they are getting at school and we must find a way to make it work.
catlady
January 30th, 2011
10:22 am
Let kids drop out or be put out due to behavior, but put them directly into military-style youth camps to learn discipline, basic skills, and some viable skills. Put norplant into the girls and give the boys saltpeter until they show they have achieved some ability to structure their lives and provide for themselves and their futures. Debit the parents for their child’s support while they are in the camp.
I know this is way outside the box, but until you can break into the “don’t care” mindset, the disfunctional nonsense continues.
About Time
January 30th, 2011
10:27 am
The idea of grading parents in not necessarily so that we can follow through with a consequence. You can’t legislate parenting. Instead, it’s to demonstrate that society has moved in a direction in which we are willing to truly look at the ALL of the sources of our system’s failure rather than just espousing a teacher witch hunt as a knee jerk reaction that fails to acknowledge the greatest failure in the system: parents.
Truth hurts
January 30th, 2011
10:27 am
We cannot blame the parents for the kids doing lousy in school. The teachers are being paid to teach so it is their fault only when kids don’t learn. Thats it. The entire design of Obama’s and Duncans’ RTTT. When will Obama and Duncan take all of these welfare mamas and force accountability for their offspring? You guessed it. Not going to happen.
The teachers are controllable in this billion dollar game. Welfare mamas are not controlled by anyone.
EnoughAlready
January 30th, 2011
10:29 am
I’m 100% supportive of teachers grading me as a parent. However, as a parent, I would like the opportunity in return of this “parent evaluation” to have the ability to have my child moved upon my request out of an “ineffective/bad teachers” class on demand.
I’m sure the schools will have thousands of request for such transfers.
dawgfan
January 30th, 2011
10:31 am
” As a reporter, I found that parents in event the poorest of schools wanted their kids to do well and did what they could.”
That’s because as a reporter, you are only talking to the parents that want their kids to do well and did all they could. You are not talking to the parents that let their kids take off a day from school so that they can get their hair braided. You are not talking to the parents that buy food with food stamps and use their real money to buy their kids $100 sneakers or the latest Blackberry. You aren’t talking to these parents because they don’t care enough to talk to you. I’m afraid your perspective might be a little skewed.
Don't Excuse Single Parents!
January 30th, 2011
10:32 am
Stop making excuses for single parents! I raise my son alone and he had my undevided attention. I am a music teacher who taught private lessons several evenings per week to make ends meet. It was not easy, but he was #1 in my life. EXample: He knew left and right before entering pre-K because I talked to him as I dressed him as a toddler. He played t-ball, soccer, took violin lessons, attended private schools, made the honor roll, and receive academic & scholastic college scholarships (no HOPE.) He has recently completed his masters degree – all of this despite the fact that he was raised by a single mom w/o the presence of a dad, had ADHD, and developed epilepsy at age 11. I gave up alot and would not change a thing even if I could go back in time.
Grading parents is no more of a political pandora’s box than grading teachers by test scores!
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Augusta
January 30th, 2011
10:33 am
I Love Teaching… and Homeschooler,
We teachers and administrators do need to reach out to, and cooperate with, parents.
Recognizing parental involvement and visiting students’ homes may be two ways to accomplish cooperative efforts.
It’s going to take teachers and parents working as allies to solve the mess we have. An adversarial approach will doom efforts to improve our schools.
By the way, teachers don’t need any more clerical work. Rather than a report card for parents, administrators, board members et al., why don’t we insist that the grades on a student’s report card reflect what the student has learned, rather than an administrator’s or a parent’s prowess as an intimidator.
Don't Excuse Single Parents!
January 30th, 2011
10:34 am
*raised
*undivided
KB
January 30th, 2011
10:42 am
“…the main issues of improving instruction, moving quickly to remediate and getting the right curriculum in place”
I disagree and believe the main issue is how do we motivate students to work harder? That must come from parents AND teachers. And long-term solutions need to be discussed now – which should include a discussion about making sure that most (if not every) child is wanted. Someone (maybe one of you can help with the name) did a study that demonstrated that seventeen years after abortion was made legal the crime rate dropped significantly.
I believe our society would improve if judges required men behind on their child support payments to have a vasectomy so they weren’t producing more unwanted, unsupported children. Is that harsh? Perhaps, but once a child is born, then society has a responsibility to help support it. Think long-term solution, folks.
ID10T check
January 30th, 2011
10:43 am
“We cannot blame the parents for the kids doing lousy in school. The teachers are being paid to teach so it is their fault only when kids don’t learn. Thats it.” Is far from the truth…. so it does not hurt.
Don't Excuse Single Parents!
January 30th, 2011
10:43 am
I Have a colleague who is from France. She told me the French government gives stipends to parents if their children meet certain expectations. This could be established in the US by withholding food stamps and other financial support if parents do not meet predetermined obligations.
ID10T check
January 30th, 2011
10:45 am
@enough. What world do you live in? You can already make such requests. And stop mimicking political yammerings. The fact that you put “ineffective/bad teachers” in quotes shows that you are just hopping on the “It;s not me” bandwagon.
ID10T check
January 30th, 2011
10:48 am
Dr. Spinks, The adversarial approach began the second society attacked the teacher as the main and only source of the system’s failure. They are neither.
say what?
January 30th, 2011
11:02 am
@Nikole, TANF benefits are tied to the personal responsibility plan (PRP) and the Personal Work Plan (PWP). This began during the Clinton reauthorization of Welfare benefits years. Every six months for a TANF case, then at the 3 month interview for the work plan these responsibliities were reveiwed,a new plan written (waste of copy paper and ink), and the family was approved once again for more benefits. Remember TANF was then to be for a lifetime limit of 48 months, but that is not enforced in GA. NOne of the PRP and PWP are enforced in GA- no sanctions, no remediation, no nothing- Just keep writing these plans.
One of the PRP requirements was that you attend school events, meet with teachers, and your child(ren) advance one grade per year. But the schools (central offices)do not want to cooperate, DFACS puts so many blocks in the way to even getting a first sanction of a 25%reduction in benefits approved ( yes first line workers at the county office get the shaft from 2 Peachtree). For example, when I was an employee, we had a client who refused to cooperate, even said she would never cooperate, never get a job, and would not send her kids to school. We worked the case up, got approval at the county level, and sent to the state office for review and approval. The second level reviewer said, NO. Why? because the lady had a broken arm at an interview 18 months earlier, and we did not question if the broken arm was the result of domestic violence. So she kept all her benefits with no responsibilities.
this would be a great time for the AJC to delve into the workings of PRPs and PWPs sanction success.
EnoughAlready
January 30th, 2011
11:03 am
ID10T check
January 30th, 2011
10:45 am
What world do you live in? Classrooms are usually already over crowded and teachers assigned to them. Not only that but most schools only have 1 or 2 teachers who teach advanced kids.
And I’m definitely on the It’s NOT ME band wagon.
Parent Trap
January 30th, 2011
11:08 am
Part of the problem of course is that some parents shouldn’t be parents. We permit people to reproduce as many offspring as they care to without any consideration of whether they’re emotionally or financially prepared to raise children. Underclass women especially are incentivized to download lots of babies to get more welfare, and dad is whichever man impregnated them at any given moment. That kind of parent couldn’t care less if you give them an “F”. Clayton Co., DeKalb Co., and Atlanta have more than a fair share of this kind of parent.
ID10T check
January 30th, 2011
11:10 am
@ enough… of course you are. So is 98% of the country. Keep blaming others. That’s worked tremendously thus far. Parents are perfect, teachers are sh!t. We’ve got it.
drew (former teacher)
January 30th, 2011
11:14 am
The subject in question is a joke…grading parents indeed! Parenting doesn’t need to be graded; it simply needs to be improved, but that’s not the job of educators. Although, with everything else teachers have on their plate, let’s just pile it on there too. .
However, some posters have broached the idea of ending compulsory schooling, and that IS an idea worth discussing. I personally think ending compulsory education (or even lowering the age of compulsory education to thirteen), would improve public education more than any other single “reform”.
An education shouldn’t be a “right”, and it certainly shouldn’t be mandatory. It should be a privilege, a privilege that can be withdrawn if abused. And to those who worry: “…what to do when these dropouts start committing crimes instead of simple disrupting schools?” Well, we have “alternative programs” for them…they’re called “Youth Detention Centers”, and they provide these young people with a SECOND opportunity to “choose” an education. And if they’re still not interested, at least they’re not forced to sit in classrooms until they’re sixteen, disrupting the learning of those who DO value education.
Choices ——> consequences.
are you serious?
January 30th, 2011
11:14 am
How much can we expect from these poor, poor, parents? Are you kidding? I EXPECT them to raise their children to be responsible adults, OR DON’T HAVE THE CHILDREN. I can’t believe you even wrote that. How much can we expect…omg. This is the same attitude we give to the children, too! That is patronizing and condescending. I EXPECT you to be excellent, 1 job, 2 jobs, 3 jobs, and not whine about how it’s soooo hard! I see plenty of parents in the school demanding exactly what they should be: excellence.
And another thing….A Gwinnett county middle school recently invited a Braves player to be an “inspiration.”
http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/home/headlines/Braves_bring_message_of_inspiration_to_middle_school_114844704.html
The article goes to say that he “wishes” he went to college, but hey, it’s all good. He is a professional baseball player! Nothing against the Braves team member, but that is exactly what we don’t need in middle school. Every child there thinks they are going to be a sports player or a singer actress- “because they are following their dreams.” Parents are pushing it, and we don’t need to join in as a school system. I have a parent in my school who is lying about their address to get their kid into Gwinnett County Schools- not for the academics, oh no, because we have a better basketball rec team, so he can play basketball! He’s going to be a star! Never mind that he has a horrible attitude and fails all of his classes. Star! Star! Who do we need to talk to the children? Brain surgeons, NASA engineers, and….wait for it….the superintendent!
YES YES YES to parent report card! This is what we keep telling you! It is an attitude of society, we pamper, we make excuses, and we do what you have alluded to in your argument. Stop it. Yes, make parents responsible.
ID10T check
January 30th, 2011
11:17 am
@enough…. and while I’m at it…. classrooms are crowded because those first in line to demand better schools are first in line to complain about the taxes required to pay for it. So we cut teachers and class sizes grow. Secondly, who cares about advanced kids?!?! [sarcasm]. In case you haven’t noticed, the system is geared toward the low performing and/or special ed kid. They are the ones causing schools to land on needs improvement lists. Duh?! You think an AP kids cause a school to fail to meet AYP? Special ed in now the largest department in most schools. The lowest denominator gets the vast majority of the resources. That’s the world I live in.
HS Math Teacher
January 30th, 2011
11:19 am
I have never come on here and blamed Parents for anything. Teachers grading Parents is a ridiculous idea, and if put into practice, would be an INSANE idea. I see a good number of parents during an open house before school begins; however, I don’t see them during the year. I have no idea what goes on in their homes. I live in a rural area, far from any metropolitan region, and I think Hard-working, poor Parents do well to wash their kids clothes, cook for them, buy the essentials, and show them some love every now & then. MOST of the Parents of my kids work in hourly jobs, and are bone-tired when they come home.
Kids have the ability to overcome bad parenting. Don’t give kids the idea that it’s either the Teacher’s fault, or their Parents’ fault for their crappy behavior, or lack of good listening and learning skills. We all know how much Parents can influence a child, but grading them is just plain stupid.
rosie
January 30th, 2011
11:26 am
I love this proposal, but not because it is realistic. This proposal allows the idiots in the political arena to consider how ridiculous it would be to ask teachers to grade parents on how well they parent. I hope this will also allow the political idiots to realize how ridiculous it is to grade teachers on how well their students perform on test.
Parenting is the main cause for lack of student achievement. There is not one thing educators will ever be able to do about parenting. Society as a whole must wake up and realize we can’t control what goes on at home. How can a teacher be blamed because a child comes to school not exposed to essential vocabulary needed to access knowledge in a kindergarten class? Who is to blame if the child doesn’t possess the necessary skills to sit, listen and participate in class? Who is to blame if no one helps the child with reading or homework in the evening so he will be prepared for the next day? Who is to blame if the child stays up too late and doesn’t get enough sleep to fully engage in class the next day? Who is to blame if the student doesn’t have school supplies? Who is to blame when kids miss too many days of school? The blame currently falls on the teacher. Yes, the teacher. According to most school adminstrators, teachers must engage students to get them to perform at school. Mom and Dad play no part in engaging there kids in the educational process?
Why not grade parents? Not going to happen because we might hurt their feelings. This is not going to happen because our government has taken on too much responsibility and teachers are the scapegoat for all that is wrong in the lives of children. Wake up society and place blame where it belongs. Parents, we can’t do anything for your kids if you don’t take on your responsibilities.
CDC
January 30th, 2011
11:27 am
You are off the mark quite a bit where lower socio-economic students and parents are concerned. I teach at the high school level and am devoted to my profession. I offer remedial tutoring to seniors who failed to pass the section of the GHSGT that I teach. I send letters to parents informing them of this opportunity for their child and send notes to every student that needs this service. Most of these students I do not know since I never had them in my actual classroom but I try to hunt down each student so they will know who I am and I encourage them to attend. I even provide pizza and drinks for those attending. This year so far I have had three attend out of around 40 that need this exam in order to graduate. Those three passed. The others have had two opportunities so far this year and did not attend my tutoring. There is only one more chance during the year and I have sent letters and notes for the third time this year. Here’s hoping some of them show up with or without parental support. But yet the schools get blamed when such kids fail to graduate.
Beck
January 30th, 2011
11:36 am
In the trenches – the teacher rating site you mentioned is done by STUDENTS or anyone else who wants to leave a comment; it is in no way, shape or form a professional measurement tool.
NWGA teacher – I am so sorry to say this, and I hope that you take it in the spirit intended b/c I promise you I don’t mean this ugly. This is the 2nd or 3rd topic where you’ve mentioned neglecting your own daughter for the benefit of your students. Each time you’ve mentioned a different aspect f how you cannot be there for your daughter as a parent b/c of your teaching career. PLEASE reconsider your priorities for the sake of your daughter. I don’t know if you’re seeing it b/c you are the one writing it, but it sounds like you’re becoming the parent that you’re bashing.
I don’t know your life or your family situation and I’m not judging, I promise. But please, those who choose to become parents have the most important job in the world and any other job than that should be only secondary until you get them out of high school. Please give your daughter the support she’s been crying out for before something really goes wrong.
ID10T check
January 30th, 2011
11:39 am
@HS Math Teacher – Boo Hoo. Teachers are bone tired when they get home, too. Doesn’t let them off the hook, does it? I read earlier that a poster was up until the middle of the morning grading papers. Does he/she get to cry “I’m so tired” and not fulfill their obligations. NO! Grade PARENTS! Consequences are not required. We’ll at least get some documentation as the where the problem lies so we begin honest discussions as to the causes of failed education in this country.
James
January 30th, 2011
11:39 am
@David Sims, @Parent Trap and @Georgia Teacher the state of Georgia is constantly ranked anywhere from 47 – 50 in education. What is the black population in the state? About 30% (2009 census). The white population is about 65% (2009). As you can see the vast majority of the students are WHITE in the state of Georgia. Therefore, they are failing just as much or more than BLACK students. If the WHITE students were doing that much better the state wouldn’t sit at the bottom year end and out. I’m sure I can find plenty of whites in the trailer parks and shacks throughout Georgia that are a testament to how WHITE aren’t the pillar of academia. GET OVER YOURSELVES!!!!
Grading parents will move the needle very little. Its just another mechanism to waste resources.
The engagement of parents in the educational system starts in Pre-K. Eager parents can easily be turned off by schools that make it difficult to access the classroom. Educating our children is a relationship/partnership that requires both parties to work together. Often times in majority black schools the teachers aren’t ready for these relationships. Most teachers in the lower grades are right out of school and don’t have clue how to deal with parents. One ill prepared teacher can easily make a bad parent worse.
As far as this homework turn-in on time droning. Google – Smart Boys Bad Grades.
ID10T check
January 30th, 2011
11:41 am
@CDC… your comments mirror a myriad of tales I have heard from my education friends. Parents and students not giving a damn seems to be the universal component to kids failing in school.
SpEd Teacher
January 30th, 2011
11:41 am
Parents are a key component of the educational development of a child. If we feel that it is necessary to evaluate teachers, then sure, let’s evaluate parents as well, who studies show are a much more determinant factor in student achievement. The evaluations will be meaningless however, unless consequences are attached to poor evaluations. Is there a politician in the land willing to tell parents that they have to parent in order to receive the aid they get to support those children?
NWGA teacher
January 30th, 2011
11:43 am
Home visits: I hate the thought. A couple of years ago, I accompanied other educators on a few home visits. After we arrived, I realized that the parents did not expect us. I was horrified. One family was playing with their children, and another was cooking dinner. We interrupted their evening. I don’t invite strangers into my house; why should anyone? My own friends and family do not drop in at my house, nor do I drop in at their homes. If my child’s teacher or administrator asked to come to my house, I would politely refuse. Home is a private space.
Beck
January 30th, 2011
11:45 am
KB – It was in Freakonomics, and I was thinking about saying the same thing!
I hope all of you that are parent bashing left and right are pro-choice and are for free and/or low cost birth control being readily available for anyone of childbearing age.
NWGA teacher
January 30th, 2011
11:50 am
@ Beck: Of course I see it. That’s the point. Most of the teachers at my school are in the same situation. We’re like many of the parents of our students: doing the best we can with a tough situation.
sissyuga
January 30th, 2011
11:56 am
Schools are a microcoism of society. In the past I have sent home school work when a student has not completed in correctly. I write a brief note stating that _______ had a hard time with these addition and subtraction word problems (pretty easy folks) and asked that the parent assist their child. I asked for a signature also. The student usually returns it, signed, but the problems are still wrong because the parent did not work with their child. C’mon! Work with me. You are going to grade me on my effectivness? Don’t breed if you aren’t going to do your part. By the way, we are going to do these words problems in my small group because I can’t let it go. It will push us back, but I can’t ignore it either.
KB
January 30th, 2011
11:58 am
Thanks, Beck.
Here’s the summary from that chapter of Freakonomics:
Freakonomics Chapter 4 Summary: Where Have All the Criminals Gone?
Research showed a link between the legalization of abortion in the United States in 1973 and the drop in violent crime in the 1990′s. The author’s research suggests that the drop in violent crime in the United States occurred at the same time that the first wave of babies conceived after the legalization of abortion were entering late adolescence. The author claims that many of the additional children who would have been born annually if abortion had remained illegal would have been at high risk for engaging in violent crime. The authors do not take an ideological stance on the issue, however, they do conclude that women with the right to choose abortion tend to make good decisions.
Long-term solution to several economic and societal problems – make vasectomies free. Judges: order vasectomies as an option for dead-beat dads.
HS Math Teacher
January 30th, 2011
11:59 am
Hey, IDIOT CHECK: Grade all the Parents you want. You don’t have to have a law telling you to do so. Let us know how that works out for you.
knock out punch
January 30th, 2011
12:02 pm
@ About Time….couldn’t have said it better myself!
Lisa
January 30th, 2011
12:09 pm
HA! Go ahead and grade the parents and you will see a major increase in the number of teachers getting their butts whooped. Where do you think some of these kids get their bad behavior? And also, who are we to tell someone how to raise their kids? This is crossing the line because we don’t know what goes on a child’s household to be judge and jury. PLEASE!!
But honestly, I think we put too much emphasis on the parents. The problems at public schools is multi-layered and we simply can’t point the finger at one entity. Parents are a problem. The curriculum is a problem. Admininstrations/boards are problems. Kids are problems. Teachers are problems. The method of school funding is a problem. No Child Left Behind is a problem. Politicians are a problem. The bottom line is that we need a complete overhaul of our educational system. Singling out parents is just a simple and convenient means for a more complicated problem that no one wants to deal with.
Maureen Downey
January 30th, 2011
12:11 pm
@Dawg, I understand that the parents who show up are the involved parents. My point is that there are involved parents at every school, regardless of how poor the community is. (But to those of you citing high school parents failing to show up, doesn’t parent involvement fall as kids get older across the board? I think there are fewer parents involved in high schools everywhere.)
I have to share one personal story here. Growing up, we had a family down the street where the dad had walked out and the young mom worked during the day and dated a lot at night. She likely had a drinking problem as I can remember being at their house on weekends and her coming home in the morning, still drunk.
Billy, the oldest boy, assumed the role of parent to his five younger brothers and sisters. I saw that in action once when all the kids on the street rushed outside for the first deep snow of the year. I saw Billy strip off his gloves for one of his younger brothers, give his hat to his little sister and his jacket to his brother. He played for hours in just a shirt and bare hands.
And in the life-isn’t-fair category, Billy died in a car accident in his 20s. (My mother sent me the obit when I was at college.)
He and his siblings had no parental support. I doubt his mother ever showed up at school for a single event. They left our street when she failed to pay rent and was evicted.
I can only hope that somewhere along the way, those kids had some teacher who did not write them off because their mother was an alcoholic and their father was out of the picture. I hope someone saw that these kids needed someone to care, that they were born with many strikes against them and would not succeed without help.
And while I know that teachers and ministers and reporters all have their own families, I thank any of them who “adopt” a child and make an extra effort.
Maureen
LA teacher 2
January 30th, 2011
12:11 pm
When my son graduated HS, I asked him why his friends who had been in gifted classes with him were not graduating w/ honors as he was. He said,”because you kept your foot up my butt for 12 years.” Crude, but that’s the vernacular. I asked if he minded that I did “micromanage him.” He admitted in hindsite that it was a good thing. I never helped with homework unless asked, but I made sure it was done. I asked about projects. I didn’t check teacher websites; that was his job. What I did do was read to him every night from the day he could hold his head up, and I showed him that I cared about him and his education. Would I get an A? Nope, far from it…but parents have to get involved and stay involved. You can wash your foot later.
ID10T check
January 30th, 2011
12:19 pm
Maureen, the problem isn’t that “teachers… write [kids] off because their mother was an alcoholic and their father was out of the picture.” The problem is that when alchy mom’s and absent dad’s kids fail in school because they have no support, the system says it’s the teachers fault and either docks their pay or fires them.
whatoblame
January 30th, 2011
12:24 pm
From the ancient parent/child schooling to the present day assault on family, we are coming full circle to barbarianism. The social implications and history of “how we arrived” at a more sophisticated method of imparting knowledge to the human young of our species.
The “blame game” doesn’t sufficiently answer the question(s), and is insufficient to correct the problem. The blame lays across cultural communications. The culture created a false notion of success: beauty, fame, talent, money, extravagant living…. The children suffer as they try to live out someone else’s beliefs: buy this, buy that, use this, use that, and success will come without knowledge and skill. Rich or poor, parents who care may also be trying to live out a dream that is part of America fable and unattainable. It’s a dream. And some of the dream is unrealistic: for we all end the same way. The label of “educated person” places everyone in a state of limited access to the dream, regardless of rich or poor. The value system itself prohibits an achievable goal. What is the goal of the educational system? What is the goal of having an “education” and marketable “skills”? What then is education? We need to go back to the basics and simply allow children to enjoy learning: take away the stupid electonic games. Make them a reward for learning, or simply create a more realistic assigned value to the objects of the child’s fantasy value. We’re drowning the mind in the fantasies. No wonder learning is boring and a useless endeavor for many young minds, even older minds. It simply has no significance in the moment, as children live in the moment and do not plan for the future. We’re placing values on values on values. We’re making the discussion a wall between identifying the problem and its many facets, and actually resolving the conflict. How much weight do we give to each part of the created complexity of learning, parenting, the NEA, the textbooks, the teaching methodologies, the curriculum, the child’s aptitude and interests, the basics, the intermediate, the advanced?
This nation is drowning in its own fantasies, attributing the blame to one “cause” or another, without spreading the causation. The anxiety then is prohibiting us from solving the problem. Education has become the new Tower of Babel.
ID10T check
January 30th, 2011
12:25 pm
@HS Math Teacher: Are you mental? You don’t need a law! Works like this:
Student attendance – If you’re student is constantly absent, you get an F.
Interactions with teachers – If you fail to attend conferences, open house ot PTA meetings, you get an F
Children’s completion of homework and readiness for tests – If your student never shows up with homework and fails test because they are unprepared, you get an F.
Children’s physical preparation for school. – If a kids comes, without materials, disheveled and hungry, you get an F.
Easy enough for you?!?!
Lee
January 30th, 2011
12:29 pm
ROFLMAO. The same government who cannot get two traffic lights to syncronize now wants to grade my “parenting” skills. Yes, the same government who exacerbated this mess by paying the dullards and non-producers to procreate and allowing our country to be invaded by tens of millions of third world trash.
The same government school system who cannot administer a simple multiple choice test without cheating…
Need I go on?
Lisa
January 30th, 2011
12:33 pm
As a teacher myself and reading some of these comments, a clear problem is seen right here on this board. A lot of you teachers have NO business being a teacher. You are clearly biased and don’t have a clue about how to deal with black students. If you have the mindset that white students are somehow superior than your black students, you need a new profession. If you don’t have an understanding or compassion towards what these kids lives are like outside of the classroom, again, you need to quit teaching or move to an all white suburban district. This line of thinking is a MAJOR problem in the schools.
long time educator
January 30th, 2011
12:45 pm
What teachers mainly need from parents is support and backup with the child. I have had parents who did not speak English provide wonderful support and their children excelled. They did not help with homework or read aloud, both of which would have been nice, BUT they taught the child that education was important, the child must mind the teacher and try really hard to do the assigned learning activities. When I had interactions with the parents they were respectful and supportive. I couldn’t do enough for their children. All we want is support and respect from the parents; we will gladly do the teaching.
KB
January 30th, 2011
12:46 pm
Folks,
Enough bashing – that doesn’t help. The students are ours – black, white, pink or blue – now, how do we make their education better?
As a 22-year teacher in Gwinnett, I tell my parents to never ask their child if he/she has homework. Instead, set a one-hour regular homework time Sunday through Thursdays. If the child actually doesn’t have something due the next day, then he/she either reviews, reads, or looks ahead in a textbook. Sounds simple, but that regular study time makes a marked improvement.
long time educator
January 30th, 2011
12:48 pm
Lisa,
I agree with you that there should be no place on this blog for racist comments, especially from teachers.
Top School
January 30th, 2011
12:49 pm
When I taught in Northside Elementary APS ..we had more parent support than any teacher could stand. I would much rather the parent left the child at the door…and stayed home.
OF COURSE ON THE NORTHSIDE the parent is evaluated by how much money they can donate to the PRINCIPAL’S FUND.
The problem is our society in general. The parents are reflective of the generation of “get something for nothing”.
Hopefully our future adults will challenge the corruption in our society that has brought us to this point. The current parents are scrambling to keep up…a possible grade for their efforts will just cause more conflict, hostility and fight for the TOP….competitive donations…So, TOP GIRL can win the prize. Crossing the LINE…and requiring them to “do the right thing” will take another generation of minds. It is not in the minds of leaders in this GENERATION.
Don’t miss the musical “Bring it on” playing at the Alliance theater…
Our children need to realize the ETHICAL REFORM that needs to take place in our current culture…caused by the current mentality of the parents.
The children are the only HOPE we have for a BETTER future where society cares less about the AWARDS and more about the process by which we achieve the skills we are learning.
Donations/Jackson Elementary…explaining how it works.
http://www.youtube.com/user/TopSchoolAtlanta#p/u/34/XE6fjYH8sc8
South Georgia Administrator
January 30th, 2011
12:50 pm
A teacher brought me a cartoon one day that showed a ragged sailor on a wooden ship with his head and arms locked in stock-aids while being flogged …the captain was shouting, “the floggings will continue until moral improves!”. The teacher stated that the cartoon depicted how she felt. Georgia’s teachers are in the stock-aid…. a lot of groups take turns doing the whipping! “About Time” makes many valid points, I appreciate you.
ScienceTeacher671
January 30th, 2011
12:55 pm
Maybe I should read the other comments first, but here goes:
Most of this can be addressed already through existing means. The biggest problem is wanting to grade teachers on student achievement, and teachers know that these factors affect achievement at least as much as what happens in the classroom.
However! Student attendance is already addressed through existing truancy laws and school social workers (if your system has good ones, or any at all). School social workers can also address students’ physical preparation for school.
Homework – depends on your system. In ours, if they don’t do homework, they get zeros. There are those students who live in totally chaotic homes, or have to work late to help support the family, and that’s problematical, but true – it’s really difficult for those students to study or do homework, and they don’t do much. The problem is with administration socially promoting students who don’t do the work.
Interactions with the schools can also be addressed, at least in part, through social workers and the legal system. We have students who get suspended and can’t come back to school until the parent or guardian comes for a conference. If the parent doesn’t come in a timely manner, the truancy officer gets involved.
It can all be addressed, if the administration has some backbone.
Maureen Downey
January 30th, 2011
12:55 pm
@Lisa, Thanks for that comment as I was considering writing a blog entry on that exact point. I am very troubled to see teachers expressing attitudes that black students can’t do as well in school because of some inherent problems beyond the scope of the teacher or the school.
What I don’t get is why teachers believe that as there are children every day in Georgia defying their backgrounds, their parents’ limitations whatever they might be, their poverty and the societal assumption that they have too many negatives in their lives to ever do well in school.
If you don’t think black children can learn to high levels, then please, please, don’t teach black children. If you think poor children can’t learn to high levels, then please teach only in affluent areas.
And if you think that children can only learn when their parents are A grade and do all the right things, then please don’t teach at any school. Because parents are imperfect. And some of them are, as Roy Barnes used to say, “sorry.” But the drawbacks of the parents should not be held against the child.
Are these kids harder to teach than the children of Emory physicians? Sure. Are they impossible to teach. No.
Maureen
Top School
January 30th, 2011
12:56 pm
The RACE issue is clearly defined in the ALLIANCE theater musical “BRING IT ON”
The young adults know how to handle these problems…It’s the current generation that can’t deal with it.
This musical puts it all out there…EVALUATE IT…
The children will be the saving grace…because the current generation is all caught up in the rhetoric.
James
January 30th, 2011
12:56 pm
We need to change the educational paradigm….http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U
This is well illustrated example of what is going on with our system and how we should look at correcting it. The first time I saw it I was blown away!!!
@Lisa is right some of you need to change professions. You don’t need to teach any minority children. Some of you have way too many prejudices.
ScienceTeacher671
January 30th, 2011
12:57 pm
OTOH, if you *know* that most of your students are not going to be able to do homework, instruction needs to be adjusted to reflect that…if you want to give them a chance at success, that is.
Top School
January 30th, 2011
12:59 pm
These RACIST teachers are the exact reason there is a NORTHSIDE APS system.
They should not be teaching…and the ADMINISTRATION that leads them should be removed.
PROBLEM is the racism is also withing their own race.
Maureen go to see BRING IT ON…it will help educate you on the current issue we are discussing.
James
January 30th, 2011
1:07 pm
I’m starting to believe by reading what some of these teachers are writing that they relish is failing black kids so they can make a point (that black kids can’t learn). Some of you are almost bragging about how bad your black students fail. If that is the case you are a POOR TEACHER.
You will eventually burn in hell.
Truth Hurts
January 30th, 2011
1:34 pm
Obama and Duncan are right after all. The welfare mamas are not responsible for their offsprings’ failure. The teachers job is to teach so therefore make the teacher take the blame for the academic performance of the welfare nation. If a student fails, fix the teacher. Do not fix the welfare mama.
ID10T check
January 30th, 2011
1:40 pm
Did I miss the entry with the racism? Like always, all discussion falls back to the race thing. What is this 1856? Some people make racist comments, sure, but I did not see any evidence that they were teachers.
And Maureen; “But the drawbacks of the parents should not be held against the child.” Nor the teacher.
Period.
ID10T check
January 30th, 2011
1:42 pm
James: Get a grip. There is a special place in Heaven for teachers. I seem to remember hearing of one who was Jewish carpenter.
are you serious?
January 30th, 2011
1:42 pm
Maureen, the public school system is not a social welfare system. It’s intent is to educate, and every step we move away from this objective is a step toward mediocrity and failure. Your story regarding the lame parents while heart wrenching is not why I send my child to public schools, nor why I teach. The public schools should not be the institution to save children who have bad parents. We already have an institution that provides persons to act as parents to those children whose real parents won’t, and that is social workers. Schools should not play this dual role. It diminishes its primary role of creating educating future citizens and economic participants. It’s another reason that people who won’t be parents should be parents in the first place.
EnoughAlready
January 30th, 2011
1:45 pm
The attitudes of some of the teachers on this blog are prevalent at many schools. I’ve watched as demographics change in certain areas, that were once considered “excellent” schools; how the white teachers leave the schools in droves.
If the school can maintain a status of 65% white; they stay. But once the minorities become the majority; it’s the fastest exit strategy I have ever witnessed first hand. I believe the administration at that time have to pull in whom ever apply for the job, just to have someone in a teaching role by the start of school.
I really appreciate the Ron Clarks of the world.
Equitas
January 30th, 2011
1:48 pm
Grading parents is a terrible idea that shows disrespect toward parents
and arrogance. My position is the same toward the negative trend by
a few newspapers, who have attempted to do the same with educators
regarding testing data.A concerted effort of mutual respect must be
between educators,parents,policy makers, and community members
and this proposal simply inflames an already heated arena of educational
discourse. Contrary to popular belief, society gives respect to people not
simply because they have earned it,but because it is an essential value.
ID10T check
January 30th, 2011
1:48 pm
I went back and read the posts. Unless one got deleted for inappropriate content, I don’t see any singling out blacks. Lee mentioned the “dullards and non-producers” but no race was mentioned. Could it be you’re trying to introduce an elephant that really isn’t in the room?
And Lee, I’m okay with you having a problem with the idea that the same government that rewards the “dullards and non-producers” grading your parenting skills as long as you agree that that when the “dullards and non-producers” fail to do their job we not blame our teachers.
Equitas
January 30th, 2011
1:49 pm
typo-left out a word-A concerted effort of mutual respect must be (made)
Lisa
January 30th, 2011
1:52 pm
@Maureen Downey– I would welcome a blog on this topic because it needs to be discussed and quite frankly, one of the educational elephants in the room. If a teacher has low expectations of their students because of the color of their skin, then how effective can/will that teacher be in that student’s academic experience? As I said previously, blaming parents is an easy target, but if kids have teachers that actually care, they can rise above their home environment. I am a product of this, and I don’t believe that parents are the #1 problem. My mother was never involved in my education, but I had a handful of teachers who believed in me and pushed me to my potential, despite my mother’s involvement or not. As troubling as some of these comments are, it is a real issue.
atlwolf
January 30th, 2011
1:54 pm
Pop culture needs to change and start emphasizing the importance of education. Too many students think they have futures as athletes/actors/musicians/etc. A lot of them will end up disappointed when they fail to make the cut. Then they will have nothing to fall back on. And race has absolutely nothing to do with it.
For example, let’s look at rap music. While I don’t care for it, it is very popular with today’s kids, black, white, Latino, Asian, etc. A lot of the rap I’ve heard glorifies thug life, criminal behavior, disrespecting authority figures like police and teachers. Notice how I did not say “ALL” rap. But it seems that the gangsta rap is by far the most popular. The kids who listen to it regularly will start buying into those attitudes eventually, and will not do well in school. I’m not saying the music should be outlawed. I AM saying that parents should be responsible enough to instill values and respect in their children, and to monitor the things they listen to and glorify.
Parents should also teach their children that a future as an athlete/actor/musician/etc. does not await everyone who desires one. I’ve heard many, many instances of student athletes using their sport as an excuse not to do well in school, saying, “It doesn’t matter, I’m good at (insert sport here), I’m going to be a star.” Well they are in for a rude awakening later in life. Granted, some of them do go on to have successful careers in sports/music/etc. But parents need to teach their children that education should still be their number one priority, regardless of any after-school activities their children participate in.
These are only a couple of the problems with education. I believe the entire system needs a complete overhaul, and parents need to get their heads out of their @$$e$ and start parenting.
ID10T check
January 30th, 2011
1:55 pm
@Enough. While your observations are anecdotal, at best, let’s look at the situation. If you were told that your pay was going to be tied to the performance of your students, and the group you had to work with was universally known for poor performance, what would you do? And before the hate machines chum the waters, I’m not talking about any particular race. Let’s just keep at a group with a well documented history of poor performance.
The history of the world is economic. People chase better pay and better working condition. ALL PEOPLE. Teachers are not above this. They will go where they think they have to go. You can’t mandate altruism. It’s not a teacher’s job to automatically stay in a lousy position because you think they ought to do so.
are you serious?
January 30th, 2011
1:55 pm
@ ID10T check: I’m with you…when did this become about race? Why is the assumption that when we speak about holding parents responsible we are talking about black parents? @ Lisa and Maureen: THAT is what is racist! ALL parents should be held accountable! Maureen, you always write that you don’t want your blog to break down to racial issues, but you always bring it back there, and I think you do it because it is volatile. Do you get paid by how many posts you get?
Here’s the message: we need to stop asking an institution to do what only the nuclear family unit can do. We have asked schools to teach tolerance, hygiene, kindness, responsibility, and other skills that should be taught from the most influential people- the parents. And then we say, “oh, parents can’t do such and such, they have jobs! They don’t have time!” Well, then, why are they parents in the first place? For real, stop it. Our society is like the wicked witch of the west, we are melting…and it’s not the schools fault. It’s our fault.
confussedd
January 30th, 2011
2:11 pm
Great idea grading parents but it will never happen. Personal responsibility is what this would show. Anyone can have kids, no license, no qualifications, no sense needed. Only one act is required to have kids and a good chunk of America is not very concerned with doing what it takes to raise those kids. The poorest people are often those most incapable of caring for kids and have the most of them. This cannot be changed in a free country all we can do is stop having policies that encourage this behavior. It is a shame that a lot of poor neighborhoods think they are victims and take no personal responsibility what so ever. Better choices are needed but forced grading will not change the problem, just like forced by law school attendance has not.
ID10T check
January 30th, 2011
2:13 pm
Good call. Here’s what I know. Many of my friends are teachers. I went into the business world. My teacher friends are more educated than I am, work twice as much as I do and make half as much as I do. That is absurd! And when I ask them why they continue to work in a field where these conditions are reality, they always give me some derivation of “I love teaching. I love the kids.”
And how do we reward this loyalty that makes absolutely no sense in the realm of logic? We beat the Hell out of them. We make them public enemy #1. We cut their pay. We remove their right to a fair dismissal hearing. We furlough them. We tell them that it is their job to get kids to perform NO MATTER WHAT and if they don’t hay can find another place to work. We give them near-impossible evaluation instruments to judge them then tell them that the best they can do, regardless of skill, is “Meets Standards.” We attempt to deny them pay for advanced degrees. We make them pay for the supplies they need in their own classes to work with OUR kids. the list of abuses goes on and on and on and on…
EnoughAlready
January 30th, 2011
2:14 pm
ID10T check
January 30th, 2011
1:55 pm
My background is computer science and process improvement; therefore I have worked in very low performing situation and the expectation was to improve the process. I take pride in my ability to improve processes; which most of the time includes people and systems.
You don’t always get paid based upon performance or success because you can’t control all of the circumstances. The goal is to try to control and improve as much as possible. I don’t believe in running away from a challenge, because I take extreme pride in my ability to overcome them.
I have several family members in the teaching and administration field who take the same pride in their careers. They all teach in extremely poverty stricken areas of the country, have been there for years and have not moved on do to their love of children.
I believe teachers should be paid more money, but I have no respect for those who run because the situation is challenging.
Lisa
January 30th, 2011
2:18 pm
@ are you serious–you are definitely in the wrong profession if you believe that part of your job is NOT to be more than an “educator”. As a teacher, I work with what I have, meaning that if my students don’t have a support system at home, it is my job to try to counter that at school. If my students are experiencing hunger or hygiene issues, I assist. I believe that ALL students have potential to rise above the fray at home. This is the difference between good teachers and bad teachers.
We can not make these parents do something they either don’t want to do, don’t have the time to do, and simply don’t know how to do it. That’s insanity and it’s like beating your head up against the wall over and over and again. We can sit here and debate good parenting vs bad parenting, but at the end of the day, it changes nothing as far as students academic advancement.
ID10T check
January 30th, 2011
2:22 pm
@ enough. I don’t think teachers run from “challenging”. The run from “near impossible”. It is not possible for our teachers to pull off what we have now told them is their job, or else.
EnoughAlready
January 30th, 2011
2:23 pm
Lisa, I would like to say thank you as a parent. We need more people like you.
I’m out of here!!! I hope the blog topic on Monday is good.
ABC
January 30th, 2011
2:26 pm
They might not do it right now officially, but for sure teachers keep score on their heads about parents. I for one am pretty confident and as a parent would welcome this. I am fine with it.
Happy Teacher
January 30th, 2011
2:38 pm
Yay Lisa!!!
ID10T check
January 30th, 2011
2:44 pm
Lisa, don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back. It’s one thing to TRY to do the right thing. It’s another to be told that others shortcomings are YOUR responsibility, or else.
Jo
January 30th, 2011
2:53 pm
Maybe the excess secretaries in the DeKalb County School System Palace should be reassigned to perform clerical duties for our overworked teachers. Clearly, if there is a problem, the only thing to do is to have teachers fill out yet another form, another piece of busywork that takes them away from their real job — teaching our students. Each secondary school department or combined elementary school grade levels should have a secretary whose entire job is to perform these clerical tasks that make administrators feel good and gleam brilliantly in the reflection of a PR blast, yet do nothing about resolving the problem.
AJinCobb
January 30th, 2011
2:56 pm
@NWGA teacher: Great posts. Honest and realistic!
Even good parents are far from perfect, and as you say, the teacher has no idea what the parent may be juggling. I went to this semester’s Open House at my child’s high school, even though he has all the same classes and teachers as last semester, because I thought it would be courteous to show up and I might learn something new. My spouse was out of town at the time. After the first couple of mini-periods I had a free period corresponding to my child’s “lunch”. I took the opportunity to phone home to check on things, and discovered that the younger kid was feeling unwell and the older was studying for a test next day, and really needing help on a topic that he didn’t understand. Needless to say, I bailed from the Open House and went home to help my kids. I guess the other teachers, whose sessions I missed, would have to have given me an F in parenting.
As others have pointed out, how are we to grade a low-income single parent who isn’t at home to supervise homework because she’s working two jobs to point food on the table?
MamaS
January 30th, 2011
2:56 pm
After working many years in a public school, I am now the parent of a child in a private school.
Let me tell you, we DO get graded. The report card is not issued until we come to the school for a f2f conference with the teacher. Three tardies are called an absence. Even if the child is only two minutes late – three times and it is a day’s absence. If my child comes to school without a belt, I get a note of reprimand. It is MY responsibility to see to it he is appropriately dressed. It is MY responsibility to sign his HW book each night. Miss a night, and I get a written reprimand! The school’s attitude is:
It is the CHILD’s responsibility to do the work; It is the PARENT’S responsibility to see to it that the child does what is required. My child’s classroom has no behavior problems because the PARENTS are responsible for the child’s behavior.
AJinCobb
January 30th, 2011
2:57 pm
Sorry, “point food on the table” was supposed to be “put food on the table”, of course.
No Teacher Left Behind
January 30th, 2011
3:03 pm
@ David Sims and his racist colleagues: I teach in a high school that is located in a predominately White and very affluent community. The majority of the students are not of superior intelligence (though their parents think they are) , don’t like to read or do homework, have poor writing and vocabulary skills, are using/selling drugs, and many try to cheat on tests, quizzes, and projects notoriously. I guess if more Black and Latino students started cheating more, we could lessen the student achievement gap?
ScienceTeacher671
January 30th, 2011
3:04 pm
MamaS, it’s my understanding that KIPP (public charter) schools work in the same manner. However, they are schools of choice, as “regular” public schools can’t demand the same from each and every parent.
CobbParent
January 30th, 2011
3:12 pm
“Interactions with teachers – If you fail to attend conferences, open house ot PTA meetings, you get an F”
I attend all conferences. I work volunteer activities when I am able, but as a single mom with a very demanding career I normally cannot do that more than two or three times per year. Open house? I go, but at my son’s school it is a three hour event going class to class with the bells and there is not enough time with any one teacher to get more than an overview as a group – no individual time – so I don’t blame parents who do not attend, especially those who have nobody at home to watch the kid(s) while they attend. PTA meetings? Not on your life would I willingly regularly associate with those busybody, holier-than-though, unpleasant women….
ScienceTeacher671
January 30th, 2011
3:13 pm
@atlwolf
January 30th, 2011
1:54 pm
Great points about pop culture, music, and sports.
And why does the media expect us to believe that extreme political rhetoric causes adults to become violent (even after there is credible evidence that the perp is completely insane), but the same media refuses to take blame for the effect of pop culture (music, movies, video games, TV, etc.) on impressionable children?
Happy Teacher
January 30th, 2011
3:14 pm
I assure you ST671, that our “contract” with parents is a contract in name only…I have just as hard a time keeping up with parent phone numbers, getting things signed, supporting behavior, etc as I did at a traditional public school.
ncgreybr
January 30th, 2011
3:27 pm
I’m not a teacher and I’m certainly not a student. (LONG time ago!) As I said before on a blog, if I ever came home from school and told my mother I didn’t have homework within 5 minutes she would be on the phone to 6 teachers, calling to verify my statement. If I lied. ALL hell was paid! MY MOTHER CARED!
If you went down a list of parents and contacted them at random, not knowing their race or fiinancial status, and asked them to name their child’s teachers, I doubt if most parents could name 2 of them. PARENTS DON’T CARE! BUT…if little Buffy gets an “F” it’s all because the teacher can’t teach.
Ask a parent if their child has done their homework. Chances are the answer will be “The school gives way too much homework. It interferes with Billy’s soccer practice.”
The only thing a teacher can do is teach. She or he can’t force a child learn AND she or he can’t make a parent care.
Courtney
January 30th, 2011
3:29 pm
Parents do not need a report card. We need school systems that will enforce laws already on the books and prosecute these negligent “breeders”.
Jordan Kohanim
January 30th, 2011
3:33 pm
@ID10T. Thank you for understanding why so many teachers are leaving public education. It heartens me to know that not everyone views public teachers as the rightful scapegoats.
Cere
January 30th, 2011
3:57 pm
Bad parenting exists. It’s gotten worse over the last couple of decades. But insisting that bad parents change and suddenly become good parents – or worse, simply give up on students with bad parents (not their fault), will never correct the problem—and the problem belongs to us all at it’s core. Uneducated citizenry effects everyone else in the state, regardless. If we want to reverse this trend, we must put extreme levels of resources into educating a new generation. It may take converting to very small classrooms in poor schools (6-12 students) and offering after-school and Saturday programs as well as real summer camp experiences for those who would never have access otherwise. There’s no way to effect a change by insisting that those who need to change recognize and make that change themselves. Although it would be hard work and expensive, educating a new generation in order to create a new class of responsible citizens would in the end, prove beneficial to everyone in our state. But, I have lost faith that this state cares enough to work for change – and put in the money to back the plan. I predict we will continue into this vortex of exponential production of illiterate and under-educated citizenry until at last, we will become an apartheid. The Georgia our own grandchildren will inherit will not be the same Georgia we all enjoyed whatsoever, unless we work to ensure an opportunity for a decent life for each and every Georgian and stop this finger-pointing blame game. Sorry, I feel a bit like Eeyore these days.
Gunluvr
January 30th, 2011
4:11 pm
Generally it’s not a racial thing as I like to treat everyone the same until they deserve to get labeled by their behavior. My family has had to to make some very hard sacrifices to send 3 of my children to private Catholic school. My wife and I have not regretted this at any time; I’m just glad that we’ve been fortunate enough to do it as I know several other parents who can afford to do it but continue to send their children to public schools in Decatur wishfully thinking that those schools and their attendant problems will have somehow disappeared when their child arrives at the high school level.
Good luck to them.
Gunluvr
January 30th, 2011
4:15 pm
I forgot to mention that the city schools of Decatur are not the panacea that they’re made out to be; they don’t, as a policy give homework assignments to the kids. There’s something wrong and seriously lacking in such a system.
Brad
January 30th, 2011
4:27 pm
Courtney “Parents do not need a report card. We need school systems that will enforce laws already on the books and prosecute these negligent “breeders”.”
I didn’t realize it was illegal to have children. Please enlighten me.
Dr. John Trotter
January 30th, 2011
4:41 pm
Maureen: My comments are awaiting moderation? Ha! I guess that Catlady (aka David Sims, et al.) has whipped you in line, heh? Ha! Well, you may allow his continued insipid comments but I will always go back at his cowardly ass. I have seen him take pot shots at my friends and others through the years. He needs to stick to teaching his classes in DeKalb County and quit blogging all day. RateMyTeacher.Com? Irresponsbile. That’s how a rate a teacher who blogs all day. And, yes, I too can hide my IP Address anytime I want to. I’d rather use my well-known IP Address and my Christian name. I don’t have to hide behind “Catlady” and hundreds of other monikers. In addition, Maureen, he is quite pedantic, boring, and loves to deal with race. In fact, it sort of turns me off from even wanting to visit this blog. My own children are racially mixed, and it is disheartening to see someone so fixated on race.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Augusta
January 30th, 2011
4:45 pm
Solving our public education problems is going to be tough enough if concerned teachers, administrators, parents, board members and legislators pull in the same direction. How much problem-solving success will Georgia realize if each group ignores or vilifies the others and pulls in the direction of its immediate interests?
Rush Self Shooter
January 30th, 2011
4:58 pm
No report cards for parents! Just call DFACS…
long time educator
January 30th, 2011
5:14 pm
DFACS is so overburdened with serious child abuse cases that they do not have the personnel to deal with all the neglect cases we could call in. The system is at the breaking point if it is not already broken. Our society is in trouble.
Teachers Must Take A Stand
January 30th, 2011
5:16 pm
Cere,
Great post! I also agree that we should all stop this finger-pointing blame game. Every citizen in Georgia should have a common interest in fixing our broken educational system. This is not a black/white issue, it is a Georgia issue. Furthermore, it is mathematically impossible for black students here in Georgia to be blamed for the major downfall in Georgia’s failing educational system. I do not understand such racist comments.
Additionally, blaming parents and teachers for the melt down in education will not solve anything. We need to somehow come together and begin the process of mending fences. All stakeholders involved the education process need to become true partners in education. This will not happen overnight, but we have to begin somewhere.
Teachers are not superhuman beings and we need support, not criticism. Parents also need to be better educated on how to best serve their children academically while at home. This is a dual responsibility for both parents and teachers. So, it is imperative that we begin a serious discussion statewide by listening to teachers as we are the experts in the classroom. In my opinion, the majority of the students here in Georgia are not working up to their true potential and part of the problem is lack of equity. I am not a native of this state and can see that the educational system here in Georgia has some major deficits. No disrespect intended, as I am speaking from a point of view from outside looking in. On a final note, if we do not work toward moving all students towards competing in this 21st century, we are all going to be in trouble.
ScienceTeacher671
January 30th, 2011
5:35 pm
@ ID10T check
January 30th, 2011
2:13 pm
I nominate this for best post of the year.
Doug
January 30th, 2011
5:40 pm
If anything, maybe this proposal will highlight the STUPIDITY of a parallel idea: grading individual teachers on the basis of their students’ performance. Some researchers believe they can predict where a child will be next year and measure the teacher’s performance based on anticipated growth. I can’t even measure where I will be next year, and I am FIFTY-NINE damn years old. And what if, for example, that child’s parents divorce and one goes to jail and the other to rehab? Can the value added crowd anticipate the consequences for the child. I say let the teachers evaluate the parents, or else let’s not evaluate anyone.
Go Figure
January 30th, 2011
5:49 pm
In the Trenches – The CRCT scandal was a problem and well known about. Problem is that politicans did not want to do anything about it. In my school one teacher got caught cheating and it was reported to the person in charge of testing. They did nothing so it was elevated to the principal who also did nothing. I was told by a person that looking at the test was fine so you (as a teacher) would know what was covered and how the questions were written. That person is now a stupidintendant and denies making those comments. Politics as usual. So, while Maureen wrote about it – it was well known a long time ago that there was a problem.
carter is a fool
January 30th, 2011
5:58 pm
I do not want to grade parents. i do not want students or parents to evaluate me. Simple. This is common sense, but common sense is not used today. Both are ideas are JUST WRONG. I am not trained to grade parents on parenting and there are many different styles. Parents are not trained to evaluate teachers. Most would go by what Johnny says that Mr. XCC or Ms. SSS does not like me. While having Johnny’s parent evaluate teachers is a bad idea, having Johnny evaluate his teacher is a HORRIBLE IDEA.
We need to support each other to help get Johnny to learn and master the standards instead of letting Johnny divide Teachers and Parents to pit one against another. Politicians need to stop pointing fingers and blaming the Teachers and work with them to find solutions. No more one size fits none hair brained half thought out cure of the day.
catlady
January 30th, 2011
6:28 pm
Ms. Downey, could you please clarify for Dr. T that I only post under one name? Not sure where he gets it (if it really IS him) as he should be able to tell my postings from David Sims or anyone else. This is the 5th or 6th time he has linked me with someone who not only does not share my views, but does not write in the same style I do. I have thought him erudite enough to tell the difference in style AND point of view!
On the topic of home visits: In the early-mid 1960s in Alabama, it was REQUIRED that teachers did 2 home visits a year. I went with my mom, a 6th grade teacher on a few. At one stop, a dark little hovel of a house, the daddy met us at the door and ushered us in with, “AH NEVAH thot AHD LIVE to see the day when MAH son would be taught by a YANKEE.” My mother drew herself up to her full 5′3″ and looked him in the eye and asked, “Who, sir, is a yankee?” To which he replied, “Why yew, yew are!” My mother clarified her Southern birthright by saying, “Sir, I am more Southern than you!” He said, “But yew don’ tawk lack we do.” and my mother agreed, “No, I don’t.”
When I first started teaching in Georgia, we had mandatory 2 conferences a year with each child’s parents. Most took place at school, but I had one at Dairy Queen, one at a workplace, and one in a child’s home. Loved it, learned a lot, because it was required it was NOT adversarial.
A Parent
January 30th, 2011
6:45 pm
I have to first blame the so called “Standardized Tests”. Then the fact that teachers will go to any length to make sure that their students score high and that also means identify students that will not do well and then “use” the letter of the school rules to label them and push them out. How about if we go back to actually giving a crap??? I am not point the finger at teachers or parents but both. We choose in our house to have 1 adult work and be plugged in and still got crap from a teacher who I might add is jealous of 1 income families.
Special Area Teacher
January 30th, 2011
6:51 pm
@ About Time: Very eloquently put!
I have taught in the poorest (English as a second language) areas to the more affluent (my child is the best at everything) areas. I am currently in a real urban school where the students are daily teaching me how to survive in the direst of circumstances. The way that some of the parents treat my students breaks my heart. That is if they are even living with their biological parents. Grandparents, aunts and extended family are investing in their children by placing them in charter schools. I am the music teacher so I strive to have programs that teach children and give them an opportunity to perform for their families. I work with our school to help parents be more involved. The teacher’s tasks are daunting as they work tirelessly to help our students raise (not only test scores) but life skills.
I believe that teachers try to fill the void that some parents are not able to fill. Unfortunately, instead of being thanked they are harrassed, scoffed at, and put down when test scores drop or do not rise. (Sigh)
But thanks to those who do not give up on their students despite personal affronts and attacks.
Also, thanks to charter schools who give professional educators and parents who do care, a CHOICE.
Incredulous
January 30th, 2011
7:00 pm
Although it will never happen… Why not immediately dismiss pay for mail order degrees. Since the legislature did away with National Board Certification, why not continue the process to include those individuals that received their advance degrees from Jack In the Box College of flavor of the month specialty.How much money is wasted on these degrees? How many teachers are out of field or teaching with an Ed Specialist degree with no real knowledge of their subject? I bet the number is alarming. Governor Deal could quickly right the ship by requiring that each and every teacher be degreed in the subject they teach, no exceptions. Each administrator could be required to have and academic background and well versed in all areas of instruction to include Special and Gifted Educational programs. Why on earth do we accept a Liberal Arts major teaching science classes and then pay them more for buying their masters from an online program that doesn’t include their discipline? Every business has a table of operations that includes a maximum number of employees necessary to operate the business and its’ entities. Why not extend those same principles to education. Get rid of those positions that do not come into contact with students for less than 50% of the day. Imagine the savings, with no detriment to instruction. Lastly, require every administrator to teach at least 1 academic class per day, preferably the lowest performing or worst behaved.
Happy Teacher
January 30th, 2011
7:20 pm
Is it just me? Or does anyone else hope that Trotter and Catlady get together?
Incredulous
January 30th, 2011
7:43 pm
No Takers? Dr. Trotter? CatLady? How many people are you aware of that are out of field or have a degree in education with a minimum of classes in a specific field? Would you hire a English major to tutor your child in math? Why do we accept teachers without the necessary knowledge for their classes. Mail order degrees are the worst insult to education as a whole. A degree from these schools is a slap in the face for anyone that has sweat through and struggled to accomplish a real masters or doctorate. I left out Ed. S., because I can’t find any evidence that the programs are based in an actual discipline. In the private sector, a masters may qualify you for a position, but ability gets you the job. Results let you keep the job and earn more. Only in education do we see teachers buying a degree, debating wether to take out loans for 15K and how long it will take them to recoup their investment. And to this day, there is No indication that these advance degrees have benefited our students. Require degrees in discipline and pay for results. Immediately rescind pay for advanced degrees from any institution that doesn’t require anytning more than a check that clears.
carter is a fool
January 30th, 2011
7:53 pm
Incredulous — Funny. Really Funny. Some of what you says makes too much sense and therefore will never be implemented.
However, the state broke it’s word on the National Board Certification to those teachers. A Deal is a Deal. The state encouraged teachers to pursue this certification, provided incentives to do so and wrote into law the contract for those teachers. Later, they changed their mind and violated the contract.
If the state decided latter that it was not a good deal, then they could change the contract for all new teachers or eliminate it entirely. However, those that originally were under the existing law would not be affected if you value the Contract that was written. Unfortunately, the previous Governor did not prove to be a person who would value previous commitments.
This is a problem in today’s society. We have people walking away from mortgages that they freely took out because the house they bought is not worth what is owed on it. We have banks calling mortgages due even though the owner is not behind because the bank is nervous that the house no longer is worth the loan amount. A deal is a deal for better or worse. Contracts freely entered into should be binding on those parties.
The PSC has begun to take steps to require that advanced degrees be in field and from an approved list of schools. No problems with this and I believe that it is a matter of good policy.
Yes, the DOE is far too big a department with many positions that add little or nothing but more paperwork for systems, schools and especially teachers. These folks need to go, but with the New Race to the Bottom Award — there will be more of these jobs not less.
I also would second that each administrator teach a class, and plan for it along with the busy work lesson plans be turned into a department head who would review the administrator’s plans. This would keep the administrators honest and reduce their desire to add pointless paperwork onto teachers.
Lisa
January 30th, 2011
7:54 pm
@Cece–I totally agree with you. We are working in an old, outdated system for a new (and different) generation. This system doesn’t work anymore.
Sam
January 30th, 2011
7:55 pm
I think I’d given all of my students’ parents As, except for one…
I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming.
January 30th, 2011
7:57 pm
Incredulous,
Just curious. How would you handle elementary teachers who are required to teach ALL subjects?
Incredulous
January 30th, 2011
7:57 pm
@ Carter is a fool.
Thanks for the response. Forgive me for sounding trite, but our children’s futures depend on us getting this right. A good place to start, I think, is by shedding some light on bad practices and refusing to accept the status quo.
Incredulous
January 30th, 2011
8:02 pm
Having taught elementary, I’d say that it is even more important that teachers be well versed in at least one discipline, if not two. The passion for learning gets it’s start early. My second grader asked her teacher ” why does it rain?”. The teachers response, ” because God makes it rain”. True story. Had the teacher a degree in science or at least taken enough classes to understand basic ecology, she could have taught a 2nd grader the water cycle.
carter is a fool
January 30th, 2011
8:06 pm
@Incredulous
No worries. The system is broken. It needs to be fixed. However, it needs to be done with the input of teachers as they are not the enemy that the Politicians make them out to be. There are bad teachers — much less than in years past, but there are still some out there. Bad teachers should not be confused with unpopular teachers. Some of the most effective teachers set high standards, don’t back down and teach with the future in mind. Years later their value is noted. However, if there evaluations are done by parents and students then they will be rated poorly as they are not popular. These types of evaluations are too much like a popularity contest.
My point is that any reform needs the opinions of teachers, business leaders, community leaders and parents. No one size fad of the day that is not well planned out. We see too much of this from the politicians.
South Ga Teacher180
January 30th, 2011
8:06 pm
This post was sooooo spot on I posted it again…good one!
FROM ID10T check @ 2:31 PM Jan 30,2011
Good call. Here’s what I know. Many of my friends are teachers. I went into the business world. My teacher friends are more educated than I am, work twice as much as I do and make half as much as I do. That is absurd! And when I ask them why they continue to work in a field where these conditions are reality, they always give me some derivation of “I love teaching. I love the kids.”
And how do we reward this loyalty that makes absolutely no sense in the realm of logic? We beat the Hell out of them. We make them public enemy #1. We cut their pay. We remove their right to a fair dismissal hearing. We furlough them. We tell them that it is their job to get kids to perform NO MATTER WHAT and if they don’t hay can find another place to work. We give them near-impossible evaluation instruments to judge them then tell them that the best they can do, regardless of skill, is “Meets Standards.” We attempt to deny them pay for advanced degrees. We make them pay for the supplies they need in their own classes to work with OUR kids. the list of abuses goes on and on and on and on…
carter is a fool
January 30th, 2011
8:07 pm
should their evaluations not there evaluations.
I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming.
January 30th, 2011
8:11 pm
Fair enough. I myself got my teaching degree and Masters at the graduate level, after receiving a BA in psyc. My strong “liberal arts” background has served me well, as I am well versed in a variety of topics and can generally answer my students questions (or at least point them in the right direction.) Cerainly, I know the water cycle…if nothing else. However, asking a teacher to have a second or third degree in addition to a teaching degree will likely result in a demand for higher pay as well. Not many people with 3 degrees willing to work for $30,000 a year.
NWGA teacher
January 30th, 2011
8:11 pm
Incredulous, teachers are moved around from school to school according to the needs of the schools and students. They are moved from grade to grade and into/out of EIP and ESOL by administrators within the schools, according to need (or whim). It is not unusual for a teacher to teach three different grade levels within three years. This doesn’t make for a well-rounded teacher, it makes for a frazzled and exhausted teacher who doesn’t have the opportunity to thoroughly learn the standards of a grade level or to improve lesson plans from year to year. Teachers are moved among elementary, middle and high schools. They are not asked, they are told. Under these conditions, the system you propose will not work.
Incredulous
January 30th, 2011
8:28 pm
NWGA I agree. I’ve been moved around myself. Our current system is in desperate need of an overhaul. I think the real problem is our educational model. The only thing Henry Ford would recognize is a classroom, because he designed the factory model that we use a hundred years later. Many better writers on this board have laid out in detail the problems facing education. It is a huge problem. I do think that the quickest way to improve education is to improve teacher quality, just not through fraudulent means. What I want to see is an upswelling of public indignation and refusal to accept mediocrity. I am frazzled and exhausted, pushing a 1st grade GLE up an 8th grade hill. I’ve grown students 3 years in performance, and I can’t stand the thought of a Specialist receiving more compensation when they have no student improvement to speak of. I don’t know the answer. I do think the solution starts with open communication among all involved with complete transparency at every level.
gamom
January 30th, 2011
8:46 pm
Bravo Maureen Bravo
gamom
January 30th, 2011
8:52 pm
How far can this slippery slope slide? Us parents are evaluated every day as it is.. Some of the vitriole on these blogs by educators tell the story. My kids know I take pride in them and how they behave. Do they slip up? Sure they do! Have they done something stupid — sure they have – they are teenagers. Teenagers make mistakes. Will they now start jailing parents for the mistakes of their teenage sons and daughters? Educators need to stick to educating the students. Their job is solely to school my children on the subject at hand. I am not well versed enough to teach algebra, statistics or physics or even American literature. That’s the teachers jobs. I do the best I can with what I have.
I_teach!
January 30th, 2011
8:57 pm
One of the items on the table for GA teachers is having parents and students rate teachers…and using it as part of their annual evaluation…..
I’ve seen the comment that teachers are not qualified to grade parents…but, the plan that will be rolling forward will have any teacher who teaches a class that is not tied to standardized test scores (k-2, p.e., art, music, gifted, exploratories in HS and MS) have 40% of their annual evaluation based on parent and STUDENT surveys.
I teach gifted ed. However, bright my first grade students are, I can’t see them completing a valid survey about my teaching skills.
Sure. If I get evaluated by parents, PLEASE bring on my opportunity to rate them!!!
Top School
January 30th, 2011
9:02 pm
The Georgia PSC should be dismantled. A waste of Taxpayer Money
Professional Standards Commission …………………..Private Screw Club…
Reich confirmed falsified dates on documents she submitted during the Professional Standards Commission and APS-Office of Internal Resolution investigations.
http://www.youtube.com/user/TopSchoolAtlanta#p/u/24/xk39ixzhoPc
PSC / Warren Fortson / Reich / Cesspool of Inequity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1vFdKXudjM&feature=rec-LGOUT-exp_fresh+div-1r-2-HM
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Augusta
January 30th, 2011
9:05 pm
How about a report card on GA Title I programs?
What academic and behavioral gains have our under-performing kids gotten from the millions of taxpayer dollars budgeted for Title I programming?
Is Title I an example of a good intention-paved road to Hell? an example of special-interest funding in the guise of helping some of our most at-risk children?
carter is a fool
January 30th, 2011
9:05 pm
@gamom,
Teachers also do the best with what we have. Why are we discussing this? Because the Politicians think that it is a good idea for Students to evaluate their teachers or even Parents to evaluate teachers in order to determine their pay or ability to keep their certificate.
There is no room for attacks on either party. There was a day when both worked together. Our litigious society and Politicians have created a climate of us versus them. Just look at how they act — one party is right and the other is WRONG. No common ground. No ability to find the best solution.
Instead we need to fix the system, but no half baked scheme that is not well thought out and does not have input from all interested parties.
Penny
January 30th, 2011
9:11 pm
Ya’ll can go ahead an grade me, Penny will get a A plus in all category’s.
Rob
January 30th, 2011
9:22 pm
@I love teaching. – All those degrees and you’re only making 30K. I find that hard to believe with the lanes and steps offered in addition to the base pay. Plus, don’t forget the benefits, most people don’t get pensions and “Cadillac” health insurance plans.
NWGA teacher
January 30th, 2011
9:42 pm
Rob, those “Cadillac” health insurance plans are like all the rest: every year the premiums rise and the benefits decrease. We pay a percentage of salary to our pensions, just as private industry workers pay in to their 401K plans. We no longer get steps, we get pay cuts. I make less now than when I began teaching. My nephew, who has no college, installs flooring for twice my salary.
APS Teacher for now
January 30th, 2011
9:43 pm
And so I ask all of you, “Who moved my cheese?”
Incredulous
January 30th, 2011
9:44 pm
Dr. Spinks, I don’t mind being rated by parents. We are tacitly rated every day. Parents will go to the administrators for both good and not so good input about teachers. As teachers, we also rate the parents. It’s simply a matter of putting the opinions on paper. I do like Dr. Trotter’s position. If the administrators and CO staff are taking the lions share of salaries, then they should also take the majority of risk and public recrimation. Do you know of anyone in any state office that is addressing the level of fraud and corruption in our system? You mention Title 1 funding and the need for analysis of the money spent. I agree. Is there anyone in the legislature willing to sponsor a bill that would attach funding for schools to community performance. Several people have called for irresponsible and negligent parents to have their benefits suspended. This sounds prudent and reasonable. In the event a system does not perform in regards to budgeting and ethics, is there someone willing to legally punish those leaders and central office personel who act in secret and with impunity? And I don’t mean a surface review and a slap on the wrist.Is there someone in the Gold Dome ready and able to put some teeth on the rhetoric? We’ve come from the right to try and fail to the right to pass at all cost.
Ami
January 30th, 2011
9:44 pm
I have been reading the posts and while some of them humerous, I have to admit grading parents is not the answer. Many parents in low socioeconomic schools do the best they can. I have experience with parents that got fired from the minimum wage job so they could attend a parent conference. Some parents want the very best for their students and pay a very high price to get it. Working the night shift so they can be home in the afternoons, as well as, calling in for a conference on their lunch break because they didn’t have enough gas to come to school. I am not saying that all parents do this, but I have also encountered parents that talk a good game, but the support is not there. Teachers have to teach the child and inform the parents….It is up to the parents if they want a lifelong learning relationship with their children. Even parents with the most money and resources are not always will to do the best by their children.
another parent
January 30th, 2011
11:21 pm
The teachers really don’t want the parents in the schools. they say they do but when it really comes down to it, they would prefer to just do their job and hand over issues to others. the community shouldn’t really expect the teachers to do it all anyway. the soccermoms who spend all of their time at the schools tending to social events should find other things to do and just let the kids learn. if parents are going to be at the school, then they should have an agreement that they are there as a volunteer to do a specific job and not to helicopter over the kids. and unruly kids need to be kicked out, put in a different environment/ counseling, and let the parents handle that too. so, what really needs to happen is social services that can work with the family.
another comment
January 30th, 2011
11:55 pm
All of the teachers continue to complain about all the time they spend grading homework on this site, in this state. I grew up in Upstate NY, in the 1960’s and 1970’s. I went to Catholic School 1-6 and Public School 7-12. The amount of Homework given in the State of Ga, is ridiculous. It is too much. We never even had any homework until 4th or 5th grade. Then we were not given hours worth of busy work.
My mother is a high school drop out. My father had a year or so of college on a football scholarship until he flunked out. Then he got drafted into the Army. When I was a child my father worked two jobs. He ran his own business during the day and worked for the phone company 4-11. My mother was not capable of helping us with any kind of advanced homework if we had had it. I went on to get a Masters Degree in Engineering from the top Engineering School in the Discipline.
The point that I am trying to make is, that giving all of this busy work, homework in Georgia Schools and then blaming the parents.
This State needs to seperate out kids by ability in the classrooms. Then teach the kids in the classrooms and stop sending home all the homework. Then the teachers can stop complaining about all the time they have to grade homework. Kids could actually study for tests and read instead of doing copied busy work at home.
Dr NO
January 31st, 2011
7:17 am
Sounds like a great idea to “flush out” these sorry parents. On the other hand it would come as no surprise if the Feds wanted to spend more billions on such an idea.
Here in lies the problem. When, NOT IF, but when these parents are found to be negligent then what are the penalties. How will the schools or the “Dept of whatever” address these situations?
If the “at risk” children are taken away from the parents and welfare and food stamps reduced accordingly and these children are placed into an orphanage or foster home and the parents are tossed into jail then this may be a good idea.
Otherwise its money wasted.
Jennifer
January 31st, 2011
7:40 am
A big fat F. This has to be a publicity stunt. .
Long Time Teacher
January 31st, 2011
8:28 am
QUOTE: @I love teaching. – All those degrees and you’re only making 30K. I find that hard to believe with the lanes and steps offered in addition to the base pay. Plus, don’t forget the benefits, most people don’t get pensions and “Cadillac” health insurance plans.
No, I don’t get paid $30,000, but I have also been teaching for 20 years. A beginning teacher makes about that in our district, thus the reason it would be hard to ask teachers to have multiple degrees. As for pensions, yes, but I also do not get Social Security. My pension is the ONLY retirement I will get, unless I set money aside myself – which is hard to do on my paycheck. And I do not know where this idea of “Cadillac” health insurance comes from – I don’t seem to pay any less in premiums or co pays than any of my friends who are in other careers where there is a large pool of members. My premiums continue to rise, my benefits continue to be cut back just like anyone else. I have been making less each year for the past four years – but am grateful I haven’t lost my job like some of my coworkers. Teachers are suffering just like everyone else in this economy.
Laurie
January 31st, 2011
9:43 am
“All of the teachers continue to complain about all the time they spend grading homework on this site, in this state. I grew up in Upstate NY, in the 1960’s and 1970’s. I went to Catholic School 1-6 and Public School 7-12. The amount of Homework given in the State of Ga, is ridiculous. It is too much. We never even had any homework until 4th or 5th grade. Then we were not given hours worth of busy work.”
Hear, hear. My husband and I were also in elementary school and junior high in the 60s and 70s, and that is our experience as well. The feeling that something has changed is not an illusion. Homework does go in cycles and we are in the upswing part of the cycle right now. See
The Case Against Homework http://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-Homework-Hurting-Children/dp/030734018X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1296481647&sr=8-1
The Homework Myth http://www.amazon.com/Homework-Myth-Kids-Much-Thing/dp/0738211117/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1296481647&sr=8-2
Schools Turn Down the Heat on Homework http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07019/755198-28.stm
Wonder how many educators realize that the National Parent Teacher Association and the National Education Associate recommend NO MORE THAN 10-20 minute of homework per night in kindergarten – 2, NO MORE THAN 30-60 minutes per night in grades 3-6.
Think about it: if a child (some as young as 5 years old) gets on the school bus at 7 a.m. and gets off it in the afternoon at 3:30, that’s already a 43-hour work week. I am not saying that homework (or, rather, work that is not closely supervised by a teacher, e.g., work assigned in class and done in study hall) is never useful. Memorization of the multiplication tables in elementary school, and work on math or physics problem sets in high school seem like possible examples. But most of the work nowadays is busy work. If work isn’t individualized to the student, then it’s busy work. (Example: a third grader repeatedly writing spelling words, even though she got 100% on the spelling pretest.) If work is repetitious to the point that the child is either doing the same problem correctly over and over – or worse yet, doing the same problem INCORRECTLY over and over, then it’s busy work. If the work isn’t carefully reviewed by a teacher who then gives feedback to students, then it’s probably busy work (possible exception: problem sets in older grades where the student is given an answer key and can then check his own work for understanding … IF the teacher provides the opportunity for the student to get help with any areas of difficulty). If it’s cutting pictures out of magazines and newspapers and gluing them down because of the mistaken assumption that kids think this is fun, or that parents are too clueless to think of their own “bonding” activities to do with their kids, then it’s busy work.
And busy work has a cost, especially when it’s given on top of a work week that’s already 43 hours. There are only 24 hours in a day. 8.5 hours in school and on the bus … 11 hours of sleep … leaves about 5 hours total for meals, hygiene, time with family, time with friends, playing an instrument, getting exercise (definitely proven to improve learning, as well as to prevent obesity, stress, and other health problems), READING (one of the few things that younger kids can do that IS correlated with higher performance), writing, household chores (which help solidify a sense of being responsible to, and part of, a family, not to mention prevent tensions with college roommates when one doesn’t know how to do laundry or clean a bathroom). Surely, if homework is replacing dumb staring at a television screen for hours, perhaps it’s not harmful. And if it’s replacing gang activity, then it’s probably a good thing – but I don’t get the sense from reading teachers on this blog that in schools in which these activities are the ones being crowded out by excessive or pointless homework, a lot of homework is being done anyway – those are probably the schools and classes in which only 3 of 40 students are doing the homework in the first place.
Note: I am NOT blaming teachers in general here. I know a lot of teachers feel trapped here between varying expectations.
chuck
January 31st, 2011
9:44 am
Maureen, you wrote:
>>>There’s a lot of rhetoric now about holding parents accountable and grading them for their contributions to their child’s education. But is there really any way to do it? Even more importantly, is there any evidence that grading parents would improve outcomes for kids?<<<
Couldn't the same thing be said for doing the same thing to teachers in terms of pay-for-performance?
chuck
January 31st, 2011
9:52 am
Laurie, I understand your problem with homework, but what are we supposed to do as teachers when the curriculum keeps getting bigger and the stakes keep getting higher? I can tell you this, If we go to a pay for performance model to determine MY PAY, then I am going to load on the the homework to make SURE that they have what they need to pass the test.
I don’t care frankly whether they have leisure time or not if their failure to learn the material is going to cost me money. If they want to play in class and not do what they need to do to learn the material, then I am going to make sure that they get it somewhere.
Laurie
January 31st, 2011
11:01 am
Chuck, I think I understand what you’re saying. A huge part of the problem is poorly designed high stakes testing, no doubt; basically, you are saying that even some conscientious teachers may consciously decide to teach in what they know to be poorer way, if that’s what they feel the administration is demanding. If you test the wrong thing, or in the wrong way, you tend to create the wrong incentives on everyone’s part.
Even then, though, you might want to keep track of what you’re doing and what the results are. There is a lot of research that shows how extremely important adequate sleep is to academic performance (among other things), and to a lesser extent, there is the same research about exercise. There is a lot of research that shows (in general) that homework, or at least increasing homework loads beyond a certain point, causes decreases in performance, even on standardized exams. So keep an open mind. It might be that even with regard to poorly designed standardized tests, loading on homework may be shooting yourself in the foot. See generally http://stophomework.com/fact.pdf.
One more point, and I think this may go to the difference between teaching in more affluent areas where you tend to have parent support on the value of education (if not on every specific of how individual teachers or schools teach), versus teaching in areas where education is less valued by students and their families: if your students are out of control IN the classroom (your students “play in class”), then I’m not sure how you plan to force them to learn the material when they’re away from school…? Certainly, if a child were being disruptive in class to the point that he couldn’t learn, it might make sense (along with other interventions) to try to require, as a logical consequence of that behavior, that he make up the work at home … although again, without parental support, I’m not sure how far you’d get. OTOH, if some children are being disruptive in class to the point that NO ONE can learn, it makes far less sense to allow the disruption to continue, then require everyone in class to make up the missed work at home, where there may be no one to actually teach the lesson, where it may result in sleep deprivation, and where you have even less control than IN school. This is the area where I think you may need more administrative support, and as a parent, I would be behind you.
Meymoona
January 31st, 2011
12:32 pm
About Time is right on point. I couldn’t have said it better. I agree. I teach at a Dekalb high school. The truth is that parents are not involved. Often, I have to wait for them to find time to come for parent teacher conferences. Their child is simply in their way. SAD. To be honest, most of the parents I deal with are my age (32-36). They did not plan to have children. They are single mothers without help. They have 16,17, and 18 year old children. This generation of parents are those teens in 1980s and 1990s who got pregnant when they should have been focused on their education and careers. These children/teens are here. Unplanned families are chaotic. They affect the classroom. Parents need to do their jobs. I don’t care if you work five jobs. I am 32. I don’t have children because I don’t have the time to dedicate to them. I am in graduate school bettering myself. I am responsible. Worst though…I refuse to send my children to private school. I would never send my children to public school. It’s a joke. Be responsible. Parents are 75% of the problem/solution.
HS Math Teacher
January 31st, 2011
1:03 pm
Report cards given to parents is about the nuttiest idea I’ve ever heard.
Dr NO
January 31st, 2011
1:24 pm
Homework serves to re-inforce the lessons learned during the day or previous days. Homework, if done, will keep little johnny out of jail because he will be HOME doing his WORK.
If you allow your children to skip homework duties then be not surprised when a call is received from the PO PO that your precious little treasure it yet again behind bars.
Its your choice really and matters not to me one way or the other.
long time educator
January 31st, 2011
7:57 pm
There ARE some responsible parents out there, but when I was growing up most of the parents that I knew were responsible, The shocker to me is that so many today are not. Too many grandparents are raising the fatherless children of their drug addicted daughters and too much time is spent in a school office trying to keep up with which parent has a restraining order out on the other parent, and who can legally pick up a child after hours because no one has shown up. We spend so much time trying to find a phone number that works and often resort to calling relatives and neighbors to see if they know how to get in touch with the parent. Children are left with friends who do not have legal custody and cannot make decisions for the child. Teachers do love and care for these children and we probably are the most stable adults in their lives, but I think the general public is unaware of how little family support there is for these children and how unfair it is to demonize the teachers as “bad” because the children do not make adequate academic progress. We are raising them, feeding them, clothing them, and loving them as well as trying to teach them. We are trying to hold this society together and need HELP, not condemnation.
Momentary Lapse of Reason
February 1st, 2011
3:13 pm
I teach your child the concepts. You make sure that they practice them at home. Then, we have progress. Learning is school alone is not enough to learn the material. A student needs to study (hours and hours) at home as well. This is where parents can help the educational system.
Same Expectations
February 1st, 2011
7:43 pm
“How much can we expect of parents who hold two jobs or who never did well in school themselves and are uncomfortable meeting with teachers and principals? I consider myself a pretty informed parent, but have learned that it takes a lot of fortitude and perseverance to deal with the schools.”
Maureen, please close your mouth! We want to give the parents a pass, yet we expect the teachers to do EVERYTHING AND BE EVERYTHING to the students! Parenting is not for the weak and when you decide to have children, then you better be ready to be your child’s FIRST TEACHER! I can understand one child, but you have people having multiple kids, then cry about how difficult it is to raise them. In the same breathe, people like you say the teacher better be willing to deal with it, even if the parents don’t have the time, energy, or common sense! Do you know how many teachers have children, a part time job, and still come to school giving it all they got?! Yet, you suggests that the parents have too much on their plates!!!!!! Seriously?!! Most teachers don’t complain about the BS they deal with day to day. They are truly there for the children, but this doesn’t give parents, administrators and idiots like you the right to abuse them or say they are not doing enough. In every job, you will have the slackers, but I would love for Maureen, the know-it-all, to step into the classroom for one school year. Teach and then you will have the right to open your mouth about what is going on in the classroom. And no, I don’t agree with parent report cards!
Beverly Spencer
February 4th, 2011
6:50 pm
No it is not all of the teachers who are at fault. It is PARENTS who do nothing but give lip service. We have raised four children and have ten grandchildren. Our kids were told to do their homework and after it was completed we would check it for them. There were many discussions around the table, many nights. There was no tv, ipods, computors, laptops, calculators, etc. They all had good brains and were encouraged to use them. If the homework was not completed they didn’t get to go anywhere on weekends and there was certainly no weekday nights out. Another source of a bitter taste in my mouth is social services and the kids saying if you discipline me I will report you to DFCS. This too has gotten way out of hand, and for the kids who truly need their services, it has been compromised because parents have become afraid of giving a good ole fashion paddling on the butts of their kids for fear of police involvement. Like everything else government needs to let us be the parents. Teachers need to teach academics and Parents need to teach responsibilities and ethics. There is so much that we as parents are suppose to teach our kids and I realize not every parent cares. Irresponsible reproduction does not a parent make and if you can’t take care of them give them up to those who want children. There is enough blame to go around. So each teacher and parent look at their own actions. We would have done some things alot differently too. The Bible would have been taught alot more than it was, and we are attempting that with our grandchildren. I also disagree with the no child left behind. If the kid can’t function in the first grade, don’t move the kid to the second to learn or attempt to learn things not learned in the first. It is not a disgrace, some will lose, others will move on at a normal rate and some will excel. Every child entering kindergarten will not be a Harvard graduate. Our values need a realignment.