Grading parents: Does this idea deserve an “F”
A friend of mine in Florida — she is a former teacher who quit last year when she couldn’t sleep and was working 15 hour days — urged me to write about the campaign in the Sunshine State to create parent report cards.
State Rep. Kelli Stargel of Florida has a bill in the works that would require Florida teachers to evaluate parents on how involved they are in their child’s education.
Here are the measures in the bill that teachers would use to rate parents: Student attendance, interactions with teachers, children’s completion of homework and readiness for tests, and children’s physical preparation for school.
Parents would receive ratings of “satisfactory,” “needs improvement,” or “unsatisfactory” on their child’s report cards.
Bills like this are largely symbolic, as even teachers would balk at the added burden of assessing not only students but their parents. (I worked in Florida for three years, and its Legislature tends to get even more carried away than ours.)
Teachers on this blog often lament that parents are the problem in education today, that parents defend their children’s bad behaviors in class rather than punish them.
(But for a parent who went too far in the other direction, please look at this wild story out of Richmond County where a mother ran over her son at an area high school. The mom and son got into an argument after the 15-year-old refused to apologize to a teacher outside the school. The mother punched her son in the face and demanded that he hand over his cell phone. The boy refused and the mom jumped into her SUV and struck him with it. His leg was injured. The mom then got out of the vehicle, grabbed her son’s cell phone and left.)
In writing this blog for the last 18 months, I’ve been surprised at the hostility toward parents. As a reporter, I found that parents in event the poorest of schools wanted their kids to do well and did what they could. I have covered daytime events at many low-income schools over the years in three different states and observed mothers, grandfathers and even aunts showing up to watch kids recite poetry or show off their science projects.
How much can we expect of parents who hold two jobs or who never did well in school themselves and are uncomfortable meeting with teachers and principals? I consider myself a pretty informed parent, but have learned that it takes a lot of fortitude and perseverance to deal with the schools.
There’s a lot of rhetoric now about holding parents accountable and grading them for their contributions to their child’s education. But is there really any way to do it? Even more importantly, is there any evidence that grading parents would improve outcomes for kids?
It seems like grading parents is a sideshow that takes away from the main issues of improving instruction, moving quickly to remediate and getting the right curriculum in place.
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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205 comments Add your comment
Dr. John Trotter
January 30th, 2011
4:41 pm
Maureen: My comments are awaiting moderation? Ha! I guess that Catlady (aka David Sims, et al.) has whipped you in line, heh? Ha! Well, you may allow his continued insipid comments but I will always go back at his cowardly ass. I have seen him take pot shots at my friends and others through the years. He needs to stick to teaching his classes in DeKalb County and quit blogging all day. RateMyTeacher.Com? Irresponsbile. That’s how a rate a teacher who blogs all day. And, yes, I too can hide my IP Address anytime I want to. I’d rather use my well-known IP Address and my Christian name. I don’t have to hide behind “Catlady” and hundreds of other monikers. In addition, Maureen, he is quite pedantic, boring, and loves to deal with race. In fact, it sort of turns me off from even wanting to visit this blog. My own children are racially mixed, and it is disheartening to see someone so fixated on race.
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Augusta
January 30th, 2011
4:45 pm
Solving our public education problems is going to be tough enough if concerned teachers, administrators, parents, board members and legislators pull in the same direction. How much problem-solving success will Georgia realize if each group ignores or vilifies the others and pulls in the direction of its immediate interests?
Rush Self Shooter
January 30th, 2011
4:58 pm
No report cards for parents! Just call DFACS…
long time educator
January 30th, 2011
5:14 pm
DFACS is so overburdened with serious child abuse cases that they do not have the personnel to deal with all the neglect cases we could call in. The system is at the breaking point if it is not already broken. Our society is in trouble.
Teachers Must Take A Stand
January 30th, 2011
5:16 pm
Cere,
Great post! I also agree that we should all stop this finger-pointing blame game. Every citizen in Georgia should have a common interest in fixing our broken educational system. This is not a black/white issue, it is a Georgia issue. Furthermore, it is mathematically impossible for black students here in Georgia to be blamed for the major downfall in Georgia’s failing educational system. I do not understand such racist comments.
Additionally, blaming parents and teachers for the melt down in education will not solve anything. We need to somehow come together and begin the process of mending fences. All stakeholders involved the education process need to become true partners in education. This will not happen overnight, but we have to begin somewhere.
Teachers are not superhuman beings and we need support, not criticism. Parents also need to be better educated on how to best serve their children academically while at home. This is a dual responsibility for both parents and teachers. So, it is imperative that we begin a serious discussion statewide by listening to teachers as we are the experts in the classroom. In my opinion, the majority of the students here in Georgia are not working up to their true potential and part of the problem is lack of equity. I am not a native of this state and can see that the educational system here in Georgia has some major deficits. No disrespect intended, as I am speaking from a point of view from outside looking in. On a final note, if we do not work toward moving all students towards competing in this 21st century, we are all going to be in trouble.
ScienceTeacher671
January 30th, 2011
5:35 pm
@ ID10T check
January 30th, 2011
2:13 pm
I nominate this for best post of the year.
Doug
January 30th, 2011
5:40 pm
If anything, maybe this proposal will highlight the STUPIDITY of a parallel idea: grading individual teachers on the basis of their students’ performance. Some researchers believe they can predict where a child will be next year and measure the teacher’s performance based on anticipated growth. I can’t even measure where I will be next year, and I am FIFTY-NINE damn years old. And what if, for example, that child’s parents divorce and one goes to jail and the other to rehab? Can the value added crowd anticipate the consequences for the child. I say let the teachers evaluate the parents, or else let’s not evaluate anyone.
Go Figure
January 30th, 2011
5:49 pm
In the Trenches – The CRCT scandal was a problem and well known about. Problem is that politicans did not want to do anything about it. In my school one teacher got caught cheating and it was reported to the person in charge of testing. They did nothing so it was elevated to the principal who also did nothing. I was told by a person that looking at the test was fine so you (as a teacher) would know what was covered and how the questions were written. That person is now a stupidintendant and denies making those comments. Politics as usual. So, while Maureen wrote about it – it was well known a long time ago that there was a problem.
carter is a fool
January 30th, 2011
5:58 pm
I do not want to grade parents. i do not want students or parents to evaluate me. Simple. This is common sense, but common sense is not used today. Both are ideas are JUST WRONG. I am not trained to grade parents on parenting and there are many different styles. Parents are not trained to evaluate teachers. Most would go by what Johnny says that Mr. XCC or Ms. SSS does not like me. While having Johnny’s parent evaluate teachers is a bad idea, having Johnny evaluate his teacher is a HORRIBLE IDEA.
We need to support each other to help get Johnny to learn and master the standards instead of letting Johnny divide Teachers and Parents to pit one against another. Politicians need to stop pointing fingers and blaming the Teachers and work with them to find solutions. No more one size fits none hair brained half thought out cure of the day.
catlady
January 30th, 2011
6:28 pm
Ms. Downey, could you please clarify for Dr. T that I only post under one name? Not sure where he gets it (if it really IS him) as he should be able to tell my postings from David Sims or anyone else. This is the 5th or 6th time he has linked me with someone who not only does not share my views, but does not write in the same style I do. I have thought him erudite enough to tell the difference in style AND point of view!
On the topic of home visits: In the early-mid 1960s in Alabama, it was REQUIRED that teachers did 2 home visits a year. I went with my mom, a 6th grade teacher on a few. At one stop, a dark little hovel of a house, the daddy met us at the door and ushered us in with, “AH NEVAH thot AHD LIVE to see the day when MAH son would be taught by a YANKEE.” My mother drew herself up to her full 5′3″ and looked him in the eye and asked, “Who, sir, is a yankee?” To which he replied, “Why yew, yew are!” My mother clarified her Southern birthright by saying, “Sir, I am more Southern than you!” He said, “But yew don’ tawk lack we do.” and my mother agreed, “No, I don’t.”
When I first started teaching in Georgia, we had mandatory 2 conferences a year with each child’s parents. Most took place at school, but I had one at Dairy Queen, one at a workplace, and one in a child’s home. Loved it, learned a lot, because it was required it was NOT adversarial.
A Parent
January 30th, 2011
6:45 pm
I have to first blame the so called “Standardized Tests”. Then the fact that teachers will go to any length to make sure that their students score high and that also means identify students that will not do well and then “use” the letter of the school rules to label them and push them out. How about if we go back to actually giving a crap??? I am not point the finger at teachers or parents but both. We choose in our house to have 1 adult work and be plugged in and still got crap from a teacher who I might add is jealous of 1 income families.
Special Area Teacher
January 30th, 2011
6:51 pm
@ About Time: Very eloquently put!
I have taught in the poorest (English as a second language) areas to the more affluent (my child is the best at everything) areas. I am currently in a real urban school where the students are daily teaching me how to survive in the direst of circumstances. The way that some of the parents treat my students breaks my heart. That is if they are even living with their biological parents. Grandparents, aunts and extended family are investing in their children by placing them in charter schools. I am the music teacher so I strive to have programs that teach children and give them an opportunity to perform for their families. I work with our school to help parents be more involved. The teacher’s tasks are daunting as they work tirelessly to help our students raise (not only test scores) but life skills.
I believe that teachers try to fill the void that some parents are not able to fill. Unfortunately, instead of being thanked they are harrassed, scoffed at, and put down when test scores drop or do not rise. (Sigh)
But thanks to those who do not give up on their students despite personal affronts and attacks.
Also, thanks to charter schools who give professional educators and parents who do care, a CHOICE.
Incredulous
January 30th, 2011
7:00 pm
Although it will never happen… Why not immediately dismiss pay for mail order degrees. Since the legislature did away with National Board Certification, why not continue the process to include those individuals that received their advance degrees from Jack In the Box College of flavor of the month specialty.How much money is wasted on these degrees? How many teachers are out of field or teaching with an Ed Specialist degree with no real knowledge of their subject? I bet the number is alarming. Governor Deal could quickly right the ship by requiring that each and every teacher be degreed in the subject they teach, no exceptions. Each administrator could be required to have and academic background and well versed in all areas of instruction to include Special and Gifted Educational programs. Why on earth do we accept a Liberal Arts major teaching science classes and then pay them more for buying their masters from an online program that doesn’t include their discipline? Every business has a table of operations that includes a maximum number of employees necessary to operate the business and its’ entities. Why not extend those same principles to education. Get rid of those positions that do not come into contact with students for less than 50% of the day. Imagine the savings, with no detriment to instruction. Lastly, require every administrator to teach at least 1 academic class per day, preferably the lowest performing or worst behaved.
Happy Teacher
January 30th, 2011
7:20 pm
Is it just me? Or does anyone else hope that Trotter and Catlady get together?
Incredulous
January 30th, 2011
7:43 pm
No Takers? Dr. Trotter? CatLady? How many people are you aware of that are out of field or have a degree in education with a minimum of classes in a specific field? Would you hire a English major to tutor your child in math? Why do we accept teachers without the necessary knowledge for their classes. Mail order degrees are the worst insult to education as a whole. A degree from these schools is a slap in the face for anyone that has sweat through and struggled to accomplish a real masters or doctorate. I left out Ed. S., because I can’t find any evidence that the programs are based in an actual discipline. In the private sector, a masters may qualify you for a position, but ability gets you the job. Results let you keep the job and earn more. Only in education do we see teachers buying a degree, debating wether to take out loans for 15K and how long it will take them to recoup their investment. And to this day, there is No indication that these advance degrees have benefited our students. Require degrees in discipline and pay for results. Immediately rescind pay for advanced degrees from any institution that doesn’t require anytning more than a check that clears.
carter is a fool
January 30th, 2011
7:53 pm
Incredulous — Funny. Really Funny. Some of what you says makes too much sense and therefore will never be implemented.
However, the state broke it’s word on the National Board Certification to those teachers. A Deal is a Deal. The state encouraged teachers to pursue this certification, provided incentives to do so and wrote into law the contract for those teachers. Later, they changed their mind and violated the contract.
If the state decided latter that it was not a good deal, then they could change the contract for all new teachers or eliminate it entirely. However, those that originally were under the existing law would not be affected if you value the Contract that was written. Unfortunately, the previous Governor did not prove to be a person who would value previous commitments.
This is a problem in today’s society. We have people walking away from mortgages that they freely took out because the house they bought is not worth what is owed on it. We have banks calling mortgages due even though the owner is not behind because the bank is nervous that the house no longer is worth the loan amount. A deal is a deal for better or worse. Contracts freely entered into should be binding on those parties.
The PSC has begun to take steps to require that advanced degrees be in field and from an approved list of schools. No problems with this and I believe that it is a matter of good policy.
Yes, the DOE is far too big a department with many positions that add little or nothing but more paperwork for systems, schools and especially teachers. These folks need to go, but with the New Race to the Bottom Award — there will be more of these jobs not less.
I also would second that each administrator teach a class, and plan for it along with the busy work lesson plans be turned into a department head who would review the administrator’s plans. This would keep the administrators honest and reduce their desire to add pointless paperwork onto teachers.
Lisa
January 30th, 2011
7:54 pm
@Cece–I totally agree with you. We are working in an old, outdated system for a new (and different) generation. This system doesn’t work anymore.
Sam
January 30th, 2011
7:55 pm
I think I’d given all of my students’ parents As, except for one…
I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming.
January 30th, 2011
7:57 pm
Incredulous,
Just curious. How would you handle elementary teachers who are required to teach ALL subjects?
Incredulous
January 30th, 2011
7:57 pm
@ Carter is a fool.
Thanks for the response. Forgive me for sounding trite, but our children’s futures depend on us getting this right. A good place to start, I think, is by shedding some light on bad practices and refusing to accept the status quo.
Incredulous
January 30th, 2011
8:02 pm
Having taught elementary, I’d say that it is even more important that teachers be well versed in at least one discipline, if not two. The passion for learning gets it’s start early. My second grader asked her teacher ” why does it rain?”. The teachers response, ” because God makes it rain”. True story. Had the teacher a degree in science or at least taken enough classes to understand basic ecology, she could have taught a 2nd grader the water cycle.
carter is a fool
January 30th, 2011
8:06 pm
@Incredulous
No worries. The system is broken. It needs to be fixed. However, it needs to be done with the input of teachers as they are not the enemy that the Politicians make them out to be. There are bad teachers — much less than in years past, but there are still some out there. Bad teachers should not be confused with unpopular teachers. Some of the most effective teachers set high standards, don’t back down and teach with the future in mind. Years later their value is noted. However, if there evaluations are done by parents and students then they will be rated poorly as they are not popular. These types of evaluations are too much like a popularity contest.
My point is that any reform needs the opinions of teachers, business leaders, community leaders and parents. No one size fad of the day that is not well planned out. We see too much of this from the politicians.
South Ga Teacher180
January 30th, 2011
8:06 pm
This post was sooooo spot on I posted it again…good one!
FROM ID10T check @ 2:31 PM Jan 30,2011
Good call. Here’s what I know. Many of my friends are teachers. I went into the business world. My teacher friends are more educated than I am, work twice as much as I do and make half as much as I do. That is absurd! And when I ask them why they continue to work in a field where these conditions are reality, they always give me some derivation of “I love teaching. I love the kids.”
And how do we reward this loyalty that makes absolutely no sense in the realm of logic? We beat the Hell out of them. We make them public enemy #1. We cut their pay. We remove their right to a fair dismissal hearing. We furlough them. We tell them that it is their job to get kids to perform NO MATTER WHAT and if they don’t hay can find another place to work. We give them near-impossible evaluation instruments to judge them then tell them that the best they can do, regardless of skill, is “Meets Standards.” We attempt to deny them pay for advanced degrees. We make them pay for the supplies they need in their own classes to work with OUR kids. the list of abuses goes on and on and on and on…
carter is a fool
January 30th, 2011
8:07 pm
should their evaluations not there evaluations.
I love teaching. I hate what it is becoming.
January 30th, 2011
8:11 pm
Fair enough. I myself got my teaching degree and Masters at the graduate level, after receiving a BA in psyc. My strong “liberal arts” background has served me well, as I am well versed in a variety of topics and can generally answer my students questions (or at least point them in the right direction.) Cerainly, I know the water cycle…if nothing else. However, asking a teacher to have a second or third degree in addition to a teaching degree will likely result in a demand for higher pay as well. Not many people with 3 degrees willing to work for $30,000 a year.
NWGA teacher
January 30th, 2011
8:11 pm
Incredulous, teachers are moved around from school to school according to the needs of the schools and students. They are moved from grade to grade and into/out of EIP and ESOL by administrators within the schools, according to need (or whim). It is not unusual for a teacher to teach three different grade levels within three years. This doesn’t make for a well-rounded teacher, it makes for a frazzled and exhausted teacher who doesn’t have the opportunity to thoroughly learn the standards of a grade level or to improve lesson plans from year to year. Teachers are moved among elementary, middle and high schools. They are not asked, they are told. Under these conditions, the system you propose will not work.
Incredulous
January 30th, 2011
8:28 pm
NWGA I agree. I’ve been moved around myself. Our current system is in desperate need of an overhaul. I think the real problem is our educational model. The only thing Henry Ford would recognize is a classroom, because he designed the factory model that we use a hundred years later. Many better writers on this board have laid out in detail the problems facing education. It is a huge problem. I do think that the quickest way to improve education is to improve teacher quality, just not through fraudulent means. What I want to see is an upswelling of public indignation and refusal to accept mediocrity. I am frazzled and exhausted, pushing a 1st grade GLE up an 8th grade hill. I’ve grown students 3 years in performance, and I can’t stand the thought of a Specialist receiving more compensation when they have no student improvement to speak of. I don’t know the answer. I do think the solution starts with open communication among all involved with complete transparency at every level.
gamom
January 30th, 2011
8:46 pm
Bravo Maureen Bravo
gamom
January 30th, 2011
8:52 pm
How far can this slippery slope slide? Us parents are evaluated every day as it is.. Some of the vitriole on these blogs by educators tell the story. My kids know I take pride in them and how they behave. Do they slip up? Sure they do! Have they done something stupid — sure they have – they are teenagers. Teenagers make mistakes. Will they now start jailing parents for the mistakes of their teenage sons and daughters? Educators need to stick to educating the students. Their job is solely to school my children on the subject at hand. I am not well versed enough to teach algebra, statistics or physics or even American literature. That’s the teachers jobs. I do the best I can with what I have.
I_teach!
January 30th, 2011
8:57 pm
One of the items on the table for GA teachers is having parents and students rate teachers…and using it as part of their annual evaluation…..
I’ve seen the comment that teachers are not qualified to grade parents…but, the plan that will be rolling forward will have any teacher who teaches a class that is not tied to standardized test scores (k-2, p.e., art, music, gifted, exploratories in HS and MS) have 40% of their annual evaluation based on parent and STUDENT surveys.
I teach gifted ed. However, bright my first grade students are, I can’t see them completing a valid survey about my teaching skills.
Sure. If I get evaluated by parents, PLEASE bring on my opportunity to rate them!!!
Top School
January 30th, 2011
9:02 pm
The Georgia PSC should be dismantled. A waste of Taxpayer Money
Professional Standards Commission …………………..Private Screw Club…
Reich confirmed falsified dates on documents she submitted during the Professional Standards Commission and APS-Office of Internal Resolution investigations.
http://www.youtube.com/user/TopSchoolAtlanta#p/u/24/xk39ixzhoPc
PSC / Warren Fortson / Reich / Cesspool of Inequity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1vFdKXudjM&feature=rec-LGOUT-exp_fresh+div-1r-2-HM
Dr. Craig Spinks/ Augusta
January 30th, 2011
9:05 pm
How about a report card on GA Title I programs?
What academic and behavioral gains have our under-performing kids gotten from the millions of taxpayer dollars budgeted for Title I programming?
Is Title I an example of a good intention-paved road to Hell? an example of special-interest funding in the guise of helping some of our most at-risk children?
carter is a fool
January 30th, 2011
9:05 pm
@gamom,
Teachers also do the best with what we have. Why are we discussing this? Because the Politicians think that it is a good idea for Students to evaluate their teachers or even Parents to evaluate teachers in order to determine their pay or ability to keep their certificate.
There is no room for attacks on either party. There was a day when both worked together. Our litigious society and Politicians have created a climate of us versus them. Just look at how they act — one party is right and the other is WRONG. No common ground. No ability to find the best solution.
Instead we need to fix the system, but no half baked scheme that is not well thought out and does not have input from all interested parties.
Penny
January 30th, 2011
9:11 pm
Ya’ll can go ahead an grade me, Penny will get a A plus in all category’s.
Rob
January 30th, 2011
9:22 pm
@I love teaching. – All those degrees and you’re only making 30K. I find that hard to believe with the lanes and steps offered in addition to the base pay. Plus, don’t forget the benefits, most people don’t get pensions and “Cadillac” health insurance plans.
NWGA teacher
January 30th, 2011
9:42 pm
Rob, those “Cadillac” health insurance plans are like all the rest: every year the premiums rise and the benefits decrease. We pay a percentage of salary to our pensions, just as private industry workers pay in to their 401K plans. We no longer get steps, we get pay cuts. I make less now than when I began teaching. My nephew, who has no college, installs flooring for twice my salary.
APS Teacher for now
January 30th, 2011
9:43 pm
And so I ask all of you, “Who moved my cheese?”
Incredulous
January 30th, 2011
9:44 pm
Dr. Spinks, I don’t mind being rated by parents. We are tacitly rated every day. Parents will go to the administrators for both good and not so good input about teachers. As teachers, we also rate the parents. It’s simply a matter of putting the opinions on paper. I do like Dr. Trotter’s position. If the administrators and CO staff are taking the lions share of salaries, then they should also take the majority of risk and public recrimation. Do you know of anyone in any state office that is addressing the level of fraud and corruption in our system? You mention Title 1 funding and the need for analysis of the money spent. I agree. Is there anyone in the legislature willing to sponsor a bill that would attach funding for schools to community performance. Several people have called for irresponsible and negligent parents to have their benefits suspended. This sounds prudent and reasonable. In the event a system does not perform in regards to budgeting and ethics, is there someone willing to legally punish those leaders and central office personel who act in secret and with impunity? And I don’t mean a surface review and a slap on the wrist.Is there someone in the Gold Dome ready and able to put some teeth on the rhetoric? We’ve come from the right to try and fail to the right to pass at all cost.
Ami
January 30th, 2011
9:44 pm
I have been reading the posts and while some of them humerous, I have to admit grading parents is not the answer. Many parents in low socioeconomic schools do the best they can. I have experience with parents that got fired from the minimum wage job so they could attend a parent conference. Some parents want the very best for their students and pay a very high price to get it. Working the night shift so they can be home in the afternoons, as well as, calling in for a conference on their lunch break because they didn’t have enough gas to come to school. I am not saying that all parents do this, but I have also encountered parents that talk a good game, but the support is not there. Teachers have to teach the child and inform the parents….It is up to the parents if they want a lifelong learning relationship with their children. Even parents with the most money and resources are not always will to do the best by their children.
another parent
January 30th, 2011
11:21 pm
The teachers really don’t want the parents in the schools. they say they do but when it really comes down to it, they would prefer to just do their job and hand over issues to others. the community shouldn’t really expect the teachers to do it all anyway. the soccermoms who spend all of their time at the schools tending to social events should find other things to do and just let the kids learn. if parents are going to be at the school, then they should have an agreement that they are there as a volunteer to do a specific job and not to helicopter over the kids. and unruly kids need to be kicked out, put in a different environment/ counseling, and let the parents handle that too. so, what really needs to happen is social services that can work with the family.
another comment
January 30th, 2011
11:55 pm
All of the teachers continue to complain about all the time they spend grading homework on this site, in this state. I grew up in Upstate NY, in the 1960’s and 1970’s. I went to Catholic School 1-6 and Public School 7-12. The amount of Homework given in the State of Ga, is ridiculous. It is too much. We never even had any homework until 4th or 5th grade. Then we were not given hours worth of busy work.
My mother is a high school drop out. My father had a year or so of college on a football scholarship until he flunked out. Then he got drafted into the Army. When I was a child my father worked two jobs. He ran his own business during the day and worked for the phone company 4-11. My mother was not capable of helping us with any kind of advanced homework if we had had it. I went on to get a Masters Degree in Engineering from the top Engineering School in the Discipline.
The point that I am trying to make is, that giving all of this busy work, homework in Georgia Schools and then blaming the parents.
This State needs to seperate out kids by ability in the classrooms. Then teach the kids in the classrooms and stop sending home all the homework. Then the teachers can stop complaining about all the time they have to grade homework. Kids could actually study for tests and read instead of doing copied busy work at home.
Dr NO
January 31st, 2011
7:17 am
Sounds like a great idea to “flush out” these sorry parents. On the other hand it would come as no surprise if the Feds wanted to spend more billions on such an idea.
Here in lies the problem. When, NOT IF, but when these parents are found to be negligent then what are the penalties. How will the schools or the “Dept of whatever” address these situations?
If the “at risk” children are taken away from the parents and welfare and food stamps reduced accordingly and these children are placed into an orphanage or foster home and the parents are tossed into jail then this may be a good idea.
Otherwise its money wasted.
Jennifer
January 31st, 2011
7:40 am
A big fat F. This has to be a publicity stunt. .
Long Time Teacher
January 31st, 2011
8:28 am
QUOTE: @I love teaching. – All those degrees and you’re only making 30K. I find that hard to believe with the lanes and steps offered in addition to the base pay. Plus, don’t forget the benefits, most people don’t get pensions and “Cadillac” health insurance plans.
No, I don’t get paid $30,000, but I have also been teaching for 20 years. A beginning teacher makes about that in our district, thus the reason it would be hard to ask teachers to have multiple degrees. As for pensions, yes, but I also do not get Social Security. My pension is the ONLY retirement I will get, unless I set money aside myself – which is hard to do on my paycheck. And I do not know where this idea of “Cadillac” health insurance comes from – I don’t seem to pay any less in premiums or co pays than any of my friends who are in other careers where there is a large pool of members. My premiums continue to rise, my benefits continue to be cut back just like anyone else. I have been making less each year for the past four years – but am grateful I haven’t lost my job like some of my coworkers. Teachers are suffering just like everyone else in this economy.
Laurie
January 31st, 2011
9:43 am
“All of the teachers continue to complain about all the time they spend grading homework on this site, in this state. I grew up in Upstate NY, in the 1960’s and 1970’s. I went to Catholic School 1-6 and Public School 7-12. The amount of Homework given in the State of Ga, is ridiculous. It is too much. We never even had any homework until 4th or 5th grade. Then we were not given hours worth of busy work.”
Hear, hear. My husband and I were also in elementary school and junior high in the 60s and 70s, and that is our experience as well. The feeling that something has changed is not an illusion. Homework does go in cycles and we are in the upswing part of the cycle right now. See
The Case Against Homework http://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-Homework-Hurting-Children/dp/030734018X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1296481647&sr=8-1
The Homework Myth http://www.amazon.com/Homework-Myth-Kids-Much-Thing/dp/0738211117/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1296481647&sr=8-2
Schools Turn Down the Heat on Homework http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07019/755198-28.stm
Wonder how many educators realize that the National Parent Teacher Association and the National Education Associate recommend NO MORE THAN 10-20 minute of homework per night in kindergarten – 2, NO MORE THAN 30-60 minutes per night in grades 3-6.
Think about it: if a child (some as young as 5 years old) gets on the school bus at 7 a.m. and gets off it in the afternoon at 3:30, that’s already a 43-hour work week. I am not saying that homework (or, rather, work that is not closely supervised by a teacher, e.g., work assigned in class and done in study hall) is never useful. Memorization of the multiplication tables in elementary school, and work on math or physics problem sets in high school seem like possible examples. But most of the work nowadays is busy work. If work isn’t individualized to the student, then it’s busy work. (Example: a third grader repeatedly writing spelling words, even though she got 100% on the spelling pretest.) If work is repetitious to the point that the child is either doing the same problem correctly over and over – or worse yet, doing the same problem INCORRECTLY over and over, then it’s busy work. If the work isn’t carefully reviewed by a teacher who then gives feedback to students, then it’s probably busy work (possible exception: problem sets in older grades where the student is given an answer key and can then check his own work for understanding … IF the teacher provides the opportunity for the student to get help with any areas of difficulty). If it’s cutting pictures out of magazines and newspapers and gluing them down because of the mistaken assumption that kids think this is fun, or that parents are too clueless to think of their own “bonding” activities to do with their kids, then it’s busy work.
And busy work has a cost, especially when it’s given on top of a work week that’s already 43 hours. There are only 24 hours in a day. 8.5 hours in school and on the bus … 11 hours of sleep … leaves about 5 hours total for meals, hygiene, time with family, time with friends, playing an instrument, getting exercise (definitely proven to improve learning, as well as to prevent obesity, stress, and other health problems), READING (one of the few things that younger kids can do that IS correlated with higher performance), writing, household chores (which help solidify a sense of being responsible to, and part of, a family, not to mention prevent tensions with college roommates when one doesn’t know how to do laundry or clean a bathroom). Surely, if homework is replacing dumb staring at a television screen for hours, perhaps it’s not harmful. And if it’s replacing gang activity, then it’s probably a good thing – but I don’t get the sense from reading teachers on this blog that in schools in which these activities are the ones being crowded out by excessive or pointless homework, a lot of homework is being done anyway – those are probably the schools and classes in which only 3 of 40 students are doing the homework in the first place.
Note: I am NOT blaming teachers in general here. I know a lot of teachers feel trapped here between varying expectations.
chuck
January 31st, 2011
9:44 am
Maureen, you wrote:
>>>There’s a lot of rhetoric now about holding parents accountable and grading them for their contributions to their child’s education. But is there really any way to do it? Even more importantly, is there any evidence that grading parents would improve outcomes for kids?<<<
Couldn't the same thing be said for doing the same thing to teachers in terms of pay-for-performance?
chuck
January 31st, 2011
9:52 am
Laurie, I understand your problem with homework, but what are we supposed to do as teachers when the curriculum keeps getting bigger and the stakes keep getting higher? I can tell you this, If we go to a pay for performance model to determine MY PAY, then I am going to load on the the homework to make SURE that they have what they need to pass the test.
I don’t care frankly whether they have leisure time or not if their failure to learn the material is going to cost me money. If they want to play in class and not do what they need to do to learn the material, then I am going to make sure that they get it somewhere.
Laurie
January 31st, 2011
11:01 am
Chuck, I think I understand what you’re saying. A huge part of the problem is poorly designed high stakes testing, no doubt; basically, you are saying that even some conscientious teachers may consciously decide to teach in what they know to be poorer way, if that’s what they feel the administration is demanding. If you test the wrong thing, or in the wrong way, you tend to create the wrong incentives on everyone’s part.
Even then, though, you might want to keep track of what you’re doing and what the results are. There is a lot of research that shows how extremely important adequate sleep is to academic performance (among other things), and to a lesser extent, there is the same research about exercise. There is a lot of research that shows (in general) that homework, or at least increasing homework loads beyond a certain point, causes decreases in performance, even on standardized exams. So keep an open mind. It might be that even with regard to poorly designed standardized tests, loading on homework may be shooting yourself in the foot. See generally http://stophomework.com/fact.pdf.
One more point, and I think this may go to the difference between teaching in more affluent areas where you tend to have parent support on the value of education (if not on every specific of how individual teachers or schools teach), versus teaching in areas where education is less valued by students and their families: if your students are out of control IN the classroom (your students “play in class”), then I’m not sure how you plan to force them to learn the material when they’re away from school…? Certainly, if a child were being disruptive in class to the point that he couldn’t learn, it might make sense (along with other interventions) to try to require, as a logical consequence of that behavior, that he make up the work at home … although again, without parental support, I’m not sure how far you’d get. OTOH, if some children are being disruptive in class to the point that NO ONE can learn, it makes far less sense to allow the disruption to continue, then require everyone in class to make up the missed work at home, where there may be no one to actually teach the lesson, where it may result in sleep deprivation, and where you have even less control than IN school. This is the area where I think you may need more administrative support, and as a parent, I would be behind you.
Meymoona
January 31st, 2011
12:32 pm
About Time is right on point. I couldn’t have said it better. I agree. I teach at a Dekalb high school. The truth is that parents are not involved. Often, I have to wait for them to find time to come for parent teacher conferences. Their child is simply in their way. SAD. To be honest, most of the parents I deal with are my age (32-36). They did not plan to have children. They are single mothers without help. They have 16,17, and 18 year old children. This generation of parents are those teens in 1980s and 1990s who got pregnant when they should have been focused on their education and careers. These children/teens are here. Unplanned families are chaotic. They affect the classroom. Parents need to do their jobs. I don’t care if you work five jobs. I am 32. I don’t have children because I don’t have the time to dedicate to them. I am in graduate school bettering myself. I am responsible. Worst though…I refuse to send my children to private school. I would never send my children to public school. It’s a joke. Be responsible. Parents are 75% of the problem/solution.
HS Math Teacher
January 31st, 2011
1:03 pm
Report cards given to parents is about the nuttiest idea I’ve ever heard.