“Attack a Teacher Day:” Are we raising idiots?

Maureen, on a daily basis student actions are overlooked or handled inappropriately. The sad part is that if one of the teachers had reacted to a student attack with force, that teacher would lose her job immediately. In a time where students are plotting to harm teachers, what is the teacher supposed to do? Press the call the call button for the office so that the administrators can come? Right.

The lighweight consequence to the students only encourages other students to behave badly. School administrators are afraid to truly act on behalf of the teachers for fear of being perceived as being too harsh by the parents.

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And yet, our politicians and some of the publid choose to believe that all students are giving their best effort in their studies at all times, and all students give their best effort in the taking of the many standardized tests that are offerent. Our politicians continue to choose to believe that the teacher is at fault for all lack of achievement. How focused do you think these students were on their classwork??

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[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Ms. D. Ms. D said: RT @AJCGetSchooled: “Attack a Teacher Day:” Are we raising idiots? http://bit.ly/hFCe68 [...]

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Suspended between three and five days? THAT’S IT???? That, in and of itself, says more than the ridiculous nature of the FB posting.

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I’m lucky enough to work for a very supportive administration in terms of discipline — we have all kinds of checks in place (detention, ISS, Saturday School, work detail) for the run-of-the-mill kid that cuts class, talks back to the teacher, is tardy too many times or decides to go to Burger King for lunch instead of the cafeteria. That said, it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to do anything about the truly disruptive kids — we spend 90% of our time trying to contain/control/counsel the same 15 students (even one of that group will wreck havoc on your class) when really we need to find another alternative for them. I even have one that keeps coming back from jail, but because he’s never done anything here at school to warrant expulsion, we can’t get him out of here. We need better alternative programs (night school, summer school,trade school) for those students that can’t hack the regular environment. That group of students doesn’t care how many times they get suspended.

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Sadly, this news article and most of the responses are from the reality of public education. I wish more of those who make ridiculously impossible mandates on education should have to experience such abusive behavior from a classroom for at least nine weeks before making these impossible laws with stipulations demanding higher test scores. The word “Survival” for a classroom teacher is not an abstract idea in education; it’s a daily living reality in public education

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Well, here’s the thing: “Sadler said the teachers targeted by the threatening comments were shocked by the arrests because the six girls were good students. Some held leadership positions while others had top grades.”

They were probably also the daughters of leaders in the community. Do you really think the school will expel those children? If they’d been poor children with poor grades, I would argue that the discipline would have been different.

Of course, there is always the age to consider. A friend of mine who lives in another county told me a couple of years ago that they had one elementary student threaten another with a very large kitchen knife. IIRC, the knife-wielding student was not expelled, but just suspended for a few days, due to the age of the children involved. I’d be really upset if my small child were attending school with such a student.

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Maureen, we have been raising a generation of idiots ever since a child can sit in your class each day, do absolutely nothing but be a major disruption, fail tests and quizzes, not turn in homework and you (the teacher) are held accountable for his failure.

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My kids (ages 14 and older) have a facebook account. All wall postings, messages, etc. come through my email. I also have their passwords and I prowl around their pages… they don’t like it but tough, I’m the parent.

I also check their computer history and we have a web filter that notifies us anytime a “questionable” site has been viewed. They do not have internet access on their phones.

While I can’t say I know absolutely everything that takes place, I’ve certainly put as many safety checks into place as possible.

Those girls deserved alternative school for the posting. A dangerous generalization would be to assume the light punishment sent the “right” message to the student body. I suspect it didn’t quite work out that way. In fact, there’s a strong chance those girls will return to school as “heroes.” This coming from a former middle school teacher who understands the nature and mindset of that age group.

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I have to agree that the punishments were light considering the threats that were posted. I also agree that these girls would have gotten much worse punishments if they had been poor or from a less acceptable group. These were popular kids who got caught up in the popularity of Facebook to air their grievances. As some have mentioned, we all complained about teachers growing up, but we didn’t have a public forum to post those complaints and get encouragement from peers. This only proves the need for careful monitoring of Facebook and other social network pages of children. If the parents won’t do it, then the site sponsors need to.

If I were one of the teachers, I think I’d be looking into an independent lawsuit against specific students for their threats if the school system continues with its slap-on-the-wrist punishment.

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Does not surprise me at all. I know of several teachers who have been verbally and physically abused, and nothing was done – not even a suspension. The students learn quickly – I can mistreat you and your hands are tied.

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hey teacher: that’s a big problem in the schools today. There used to be schools where ‘problem’ kids would go. most schools don’t have that ability to handle the disruptive students, and as you said, there aren’t necessarily that many of them. But if the school could kick them out – and they could go to another school where there would be lots of discipline – we could do something about the problem. But it’s not politically correct to do that anymore. It’s a crying shame – the other kids want to learn, and the disruptive kids are making that impossible. You can bet those kids know the power they have – and that may be the only power they have in their lives – so they use it to their full advantage.

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After all, many kids hear threats against the teachers from their parents: “I’m going to go down there and straighten that teacher out.” When I have had a child say, “I’m going to tell my mom” I laugh and say, “Please do. I look forward to talking to her.” Now the child gets that attitude from their parents.

Glad to see that you have had a bit of an epiphany, Ms. Downey. You really have no clue about the kinds of things teachers deal with day in and day out from many students and their parents, not to mention the administrators, and the state-and federal-level “geniuses” that dictate policies that are counterproductive or not based in reality at all.

I am sure some will argue that these teachers “did” something to deserve this.

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The system is set up to ATTACK teachers. The politicians want a TEACHER REPORT card based on Standardized TEST SCORES…

It takes the Governor of Georgia to call for a GBI investigation to halt the attacks ATLANTA PUBLIC SCHOOLS have made on their teachers and administrators in their attempts to cover-up CHEATING on tests and the criminal misuse of public funds in their schools.

I think the ATTACK is a reflection of our society.
The “right thing to do” comes from within.

Our children have been molded by a corrupt society of adults that have modeled this behavior through the media.

The internal voice to “do the right thing” has slowly died in our society. When computers, cameras, video-tapes, and tape-recorders are the only means of regulating the illegal vile actions of the human race our society is doomed to fail. We must make sure as parents and teachers the internal voices of honesty and integrity are never erased. The “internal voice and camera” is the “saving grace” of our future.

Yet, still the psychopathic minds society has created in this MEDIA WAR continue to find ways justify and believe they won’t get caught.

Atlanta Public Schools ADMINISTRATION attacks their TEACHERS through falsified PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT PLANS…and by not providing a “GRIEVANCE PROCESS”
that protects the “WHISTLE-BLOWER”

On December 22nd, in the face of seemingly unanimous bipartisan support, the Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act was killed at the last minute when a mystery Senator placed what’s called an anonymous hold on the bill. This bill had already been passed by the Senate earlier in December and by the House earlier that same day, but in the final vote on the reconciled bill, which is designed to protect government workers from being punished – as they usually are – for exposing illegality, waste and corruption – it was shut down by a lone anonymous hold.

AND SOMEONE IN THE SENATE WANTS TO MAKE SURE THE CAMERA IS NOT ON THEM WHEN THEY VOTE…

http://www.wnyc.org/blowthewhistle/

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ATLANTA PUBLIC SCHOOLS…will ATTACK a TEACHER and use the taxpayers money to fight in the court system to support the attack…

It has taken the Governor’s actions to CRACK THE BACKS OF THE ATTACKERS…
are they going to clean house or sweep this dirt under the rug.

Are the cameras rolling?…What will happen behind closed doors?

http://www.TopPublicSchoolCorruptionAtlanta.com

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Everybody else does it- students are not stupid and they notice this. How could we expect them to know any better? Poor performance and behavior are routinely excused and the culprit has always been the teacher. I stay in the hot seat because I refuse to EVER accept it.

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I’m also really surprised these students got off so easily….3-5 days suspension..that’s nothing. I’m glad to see the vast majority of posters feel the same. I taught middle school for many, many years and no I don’t think these students are too young to begin to see that there are serious consequences attached to actions. And especially if these children have the potential to be leaders.

They need to be out of school at least long enough for the “excitement” of this to die down. As it is it’s likely they will return right into the hub bub of it and become “heroes”. I certainly think keeping them out 2 weeks at least and/or placing them in an alternative school for at least a semester.

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@The Anti-Wooten- hilarious!

@everyone else- You’re all correct; when I was in elementary and middle school, corporal punishment was the norm; your parents had to send a note to the Principal if you were NOT to be spanked/paddled. Sadly, now, parents allow their children to disrespect them at home and in public, so the same terrible attitude and bad behavior carries over to teachers, to administrators, and eventually, towards law enforcement. While I do not necessarily condone physical punishment for children, I do believe that if you spare the rod (or any other serious punishment), you spoil the child, and then we end up with this mess.

My siblings and I did our best to stay out of trouble in school because we knew that there was absolutely NO WAY we were going to get away with it; if a note was sent home, or a phone call was made to our parents, the teacher/principal was assumed to be right, and we got punished six ways from Sunday with no room for argument. Behavior issues were never the teacher’s fault- my parents (one is an educator) knew that we were almost certainly to blame for any classroom or behavior issues, and they punished us accordingly. What (if any) punishment did the parents of these students level upon their children?? A light school suspension is certainly not enough to dissuade these students from similar disgraces in the future. Parents need to not only monitor their children online, but in PERSON. We need to spend more time setting a good example, and then we’ll see what happens…

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TopSchool says, “Are the cameras rolling?…What will happen behind closed doors?”

Now there is a solution–put cameras in every classroom.

The technology mean is there, and it has proven to deter behavior.

But the question is will the teachers allow the cameras in their classrooms?

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Trotter….where are you – on vacation? I would have thought you would have had a great time with this blog…..

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Preach on Tony!!

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Great points Coach.

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Georgia Coach: “Teachers (I did it for 20 years) need to realize that there are things they can do to become better classroom managers.”

Why not remove all doubts and put cameras in every classroom and see if teachers are doing their jobs in classroom management? If the teachers prove on cameras that they are doing their job in classroom management, and they still flood the administrators with referrals, will the administrators still blame the teachers?

Tony: “How do we get to this point? Here are a few examples that I deal with on a regular basis.”

Anyone who has been in the classrooms at a Title 1 school already knows all that. The question is will the teachers allow the only means to protect/prove themselves with cameras in the classrooms?

Right now, the Teacher Unions are against it. Because in the old days, the cameras would have been used as evidence against teacher bullying. But the times have changed, and we need cameras to prove that the students are bullying the teachers. Footages need to get out to the parents and news media before there will be public support for the teachers. Otherwise, teachers will continue to be blamed for everything.

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So I finally met my kids. Six made all F’s last quarter and have long discipline records, 4 can’t read period, 3 cursed me so I put them out to call their parents. Four others were the only ones to finish their diagnostic test. The rest were staring at the ceiling and/or plotting my downfall. I guess I have Children of the Corn.

On the bright side, it is not as bad as last year when I had 37 in one class. 8 were PEC with 3 of those behavior disorder. 6 others were on probation and had blue cards. One threatened to kill me so I put her out and called the administrator. The administrator wouldn’t do anything. I told her that the child was too disruptive and I couldn’t teach with her in there and I was not used to children threatening my life. Later that night, this juvenile delinquent went home and beat up her pregnant mother and was put in jail. End of story.

No, this was not an alternative school in APS.

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@ Math Maestro: Teachers’ unions?

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schlmarm, a friend of mine who is a retired Army officer began teaching in NY as part of the “Troops to Teachers” program. He says that it is almost impossible to get anything done, discipline-wise, in NY, because the law there says that if a student is expelled, the school system must send a tutor to the student’s house to ensure that his/her right to an education is maintained, which is an expensive proposition. To avoid the expense, the systems avoid discipline (at least according to my friend; I have not verified this independently.)

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Teacher for Life: “No, this was not an alternative school in APS.”
schlmarm: “the student’s reason for the assault–”I felt like it, so what?”

We all have our war stories. It sounds like the teachers need the cameras more than the students.
My war story was when I had students fighting in my classroom, I did the procedure of moving the other students out of the classroom and called the administrator. The admin had to call the police. And the students then jumped on the police.
So after the police removed my students, I called up the parents to let them know of the incident. One parent blamed me that he was going to get a ticket as the court has punished that parent before. Another parent told me thanks, and that he had to call the police himself before to arrest his own kid. And the final parent asked me for help to discipline his kid. This was when I realized that teachers need to also be surrogate parents. If we are not surrogate parents, then we are not doing an effective job?

NWGA teacher: “Teachers’ unions?”

That is why I love teachers–please continue to correct me when I’m wrong. When I was in the classroom, I wrote my Teachers Union, local board, and even my mayor about putting cameras in the classrooms. No one wanted to deal with that issue citing budget cuts, privacy laws, etc. And even some teachers were against it. If teachers are debating this among ourselves, then no one outside will support us on this. We need to be unified in our voice of having “cameras in the classrooms”. Teachers are doing their jobs even if the public thinks we are not. And the cameras will prove that we are and that we need more support.

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every parent says they discipline their kid and every teacher says they maintain that discipline in the classroom.

With all of this perfection and discipline, who is in the wrong?

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Math maestro: We have parents who sit in the AP’s office and watch their kid assault another kid on the bus camera and refuse to believe it. They argue that there was something else happening that the camera did not pick up! (You know, the camera moves around or turns a blind eye, or the bus driver deletes the misbehavior of her “favorites”) Yeah, right. So I have no hope that classroom cameras would be of any help at all. We’d hear the same excuses.

Now, if we want to talk about silly excuses PARENTS proffer, I think we could write a book!

BTW, I have been very gratified by the behavior of our AP this year. When I talked to her about a concern (a child who lied, stole repeatedly, refused to work–a 4th grader–and disrupted her class of low low performing students) the AP said to me, “You have the RIGHT to have her removed from your class if she is disrupting it.” So she was removed for a few days (to our time-for-self area) and came back with a slightly better attitude. However, even at the elementary level, I believe we need an alternative school. Perhaps it could help these troubled children with some focused resources and perhaps some actual intervention by the court and DFACS, but at least it would demonstrate that school provides an opportunity to learn, and allow the other students to get on with learning. In our county, we cannot place a child in the alternative school until 6-7 grade, giving the disruptive children a captive audience for over 1000 days before they are removed!

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Was this in Clayton County????

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Amazing…so far NO ONE has blamed the teachers! AWESOME! (Maybe there’s still hope!)

When I was a kid, if I came home and said I didn’t have any homework, within 5 minutes my mouther would be on the phone dialing 6 numbers verifing my claim. If you were to get 50 parents together AT RANDOM and put them in a room and tell them they had to write down their student’s classes and the teacher for each class, I doubt if 4 could do it. Maybe a few could name one or two. My mother could name every one and had their phone numbers.

Parents simply DON’T CARE!! If anything goes wrong, they know they can blame the teacher! If their little 14 year-old Buffy gets an “F” it’s the teacher’s fault for not teaching her. It’s never the parent’s fault for not seeing that the little darling is doing her homework instead of making out with her 17 year-old boyfriend behind the locked door in her bedroom. Hell, if it rains on a school day, I’m surprised the teachers don’t get blamed!

Nothing is going to change until parents wake up and start being parents again.

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Me2,

Did you submit a police report to Gwinnett County law enforcement? Did you take out a warrant against the student?

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Angela says: “every parent says they discipline their kid and every teacher says they maintain that discipline in the classroom.”
catlady says: “We have parents who sit in the AP’s office and watch their kid assault another kid on the bus camera and refuse to believe it.”

Then let’s continue not having cameras and bicker as usual about teachers not having the support of parents?
With a camera, we the teachers have proof that we are doing are job. What is the parents proof to the judge?
With camera evidence, at least a judge will back you, and can place the burden on the parents with tickets or even jail time. Without camera evidence, the judge will always back the parents and blame the teacher. So don’t give up hope, and keep demanding your cameras in the classrooms!

Tony says: “Please be properly informed – India and China DO NOT have higher test scores.”

Complain to the NY Times and PISA. They have me convinced that US have mediocre test scores that are lower than China and India. See
http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pisa/pisa2009highlights.asp
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/30/world/asia/30shanghai.html?_r=1&ref=education

ScienceTeacher671 says: “Teachers, law enforcement officers, members of Congress — is no one safe?”

It does not look like it. Just like there is CSPAN for Congress and COPS for police, as long as parents pay the teachers’ bills, they will want proof that teachers are doing their job, and many times, the parents’ jobs. So let’s give it to them on camera.

honeyfern says: “They are simply mirroring what they see.”

Then let’s put the burden of proof back on the parents, and CYA with the camera evidence in the classrooms.

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My school has cameras. We’re grateful.

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Are we raising idiots? YES

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Seriously….. is anyone shocked at this news?

You media (yes, you Maureen) continue to protray ALL teachers as bad and show OUR children that it is okay to use teachers as targets.

Children are TAUGHT to not respect teachers. Children are TAUGHT to sit in judgement of teachers.

Come on now, seriously, are you really shocked at this news?

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HS Public Teacher says: “Seriously….. is anyone shocked at this news?”

Shocked, no. Relieved, sort of, because student behavior is being addressed with the teacher being the victim instead of the blame. Too many press coverage of low student performances is blamed on the teachers, and administrators complaining about not being able to fire ineffective teachers instead of finding ways to retain effective teachers. Teachers have very little to defend ourselves, which is why the turnover rate is 50% within 5 years, and higher in the low-income schools. See
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/20/AR2007062002300.html

TnGelding says: “Was it really that much different when we were growing up?”

I think so. I remembered when I feared disappointing my teachers. Today, I do not think students fear the teachers, but they fear other gang members. I remembered when my bad grades were a consequence. Today, grades are no consequence to the students. In fact, bad grades are the reflection of ineffective teachers. I had an administrator tell me, “War is the failure of diplomacy, and bad grade is the failure of teaching.”

NWGA teacher says: “My school has cameras. We’re grateful.”

We had cameras in the hallways, but not in the classrooms. When a teacher complained that students act up in their classroom, one VP will say, “well how come they don’t act up in the halls?”

To Robert Meaders:
1) Any education reform that increases the load on the teachers is not sustainable.
2) school administrative support should focus more on retaining “effective” teachers, than getting rid of the “ineffective” teachers.

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Maureen…again I ask this question…( It seems the only comment you’ve made about my posts was to point out the racial make-up of two Dekalb schools)

Do you think the media might be part of the problem?…THE MEDIA SPIN…picks and chooses what is newsworthy and not…

Will the NEWS MEDIA spin the ATLANTA PUBLIC SCHOOL’S criminal acts any way the executive journal editors tell the writers to SPIN it?

As I said…Hide and Watch what happens when DEAL steps into office.

Talk about ATTACK a TEACHER day!!!…The teachers in APS have been lynched since Beverly Hall became Superintendent…and look what has happened…

NOTHING…REPORTED… INVESTIGATED… CLEARED … and I PREDICT NOTHING WILL HAPPEN with reference to a GBI investigation initiated by Governor Perdue.

Nothing will happen…ignored…and shoved under a student’s desk like a nasty wad of chewed gum.

Governor DEAL will show you how POLITICS and ATTACKS on teachers ARE COVERED-UP on the NORTHSIDE of Atlanta.

http://www.TopPublicSchoolCorruptionAtlanta.com

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This incident isn’t really about what your kids are doing on Facebook. Peer pressure has been a dominating force in children’s lives well before the days of the Internet.

I knew a kid in middle school who was a pretty bright student, but ended up running with a couple of bad apples. He and a buddy broke into the school after hours and committed what would be later charged as felony vandalism and theft. The authorities didn’t catch them for a few weeks, and we were shocked to find out he was one of the culprits.

I got to know him pretty well during high school, and he said that he never really understood why he did it. He seemed to have a normal family and very supportive parents. Clearly a case of peer pressure, but he always pointed out that he was responsible for going through with it. It turned out that he was suspended for the original offense, but they cut that short so that he could take his finals and not have to repeat a grade. He never spent even a second behind bars, but instead had to do community service at the school he’d broken into–helping the janitors after hours. He said it was hard work, but he was glad they gave him a chance to make up for what he had done.

He wound up getting a Ph.D., and is a successful university professor. So let there be something said about second chances, and letting the punishment fit the crime.

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Helicopter parenting has really destroyed kids’ worth ethic, ability to problem solve…and deal with their own school work.

Even those “good” parents–who are overbearing.

Critical thinking? HA. GA’s curriculum does not allow for that…….

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Forgot to mention this warning to parents – my 6th graders informed me that many students have 2 Facebook pages, the one they show parents and the REAL one. Gotta love 6th graders; they’ll throw each other under the bus in a heartbeat!

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Is we raising idiots?

Yes, we is.

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So, teachers have one bad anecdotal story, among the hundreds and hundreds of kids they teach and we are supposed to condemn our entire society? Sounds more like a professional norm than a disturbing evolution of negative behavior.

This blog is just a big pity party.

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I had a student threaten me this year. Nothing happened to him. However, I got written up the same day for insubordination because I didn’t like the way admin was not handling it. Way to go APS!

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@Hmmmmmm….IT’S NOT JUST ONE STORY EACH!!!

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I also contacted the school resource officer, who never returned my phone calls or email.

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Me2,

Don’t expect to hear from him if his check is signed by J. Alvin.

A report about your incident should have been made to DA Porter by your school’s RO. Check with Danny Porter’s office to (1) determine if your RO made the report to the DA as required by law, and
(2) explain to the DA all you know about the incident.

A middle school student slapped me in March 2004. I went to the local police, signed a warrant for the student’s arrest, had him locked up, saw him in court, and then have never seen him again.

Sorry students, parents and admins will give us teachers as much guff as they think we’ll take.

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We can keep going back to who’s fault it is, and we end up at society.
“It’s the kid’s fault.”
“No, the parent’s didn’t train them right!”
“No, the parent’s themselves weren’t trained right at parenting!”
There is a huge flaw in our society.

As a high schooler myself (Am I bigoted to think of myself as ‘elite’? Because I obey authority at school? Because I care for my future, for the future. That I learn, that I apply myself to my studies, and as a result, easily ace every class, while my peers waste their lives?) I am disgusted at behavior in my school, in youth in general, and yes, in society.

Decline of Morals…

And we can’t solve this. Humanity is doomed. We started small. One of these days we’ll nuke each other and taste our own medicine.
Inevitably, a critic will say I’m overreacting. Making a statement about society based on a Facebook post. Well, you see it everywhere. And the real issues, the big picture, can’t be ignored.

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Put the brats in jail. Period. Not with light sentences, but with heavy ones. Also, parents should be held accountable for their childs behaviour, and charged with a crime if they support and encourage this kind of actions with their kids.

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I think the children are modeling the “idiot” adults they see.

A mirror image of the sociopathic adults running many of the current systems…

The average compensation package for an urban superintendent ranges from $185,000 to $425,000, Katzir said. Hall earned $344,331 in 2009, and received a performance bonus of $78,100.

@ Math Maestro— I am not employed as teacher anymore.
As for changing society…that’s why I am on this blog @$!$^%&^*&(*(*???

I haven’t given up yet…but have every reason in the world to do so…

If you will read the information at http://www.TopPublicSchoolCorruptionAtlanta.com
you will see that most of the SYSTEMS in place for teachers are not designed to protect teachers.

As for calling the police…The POLICE do not handle SCHOOL PROBLEMS…and most PRINCIPALS are going to hide any problems because the school does not want the publicity…MOST SCHOOL PROBLEMS ARE HANDLED in house by the SCHOOL detectives.

I tried this avenue too…FBI…GBI…You are living in another world. These people are placed there to put the fire out.

No, I don’t have much faith in the SYSTEMS…So far they’ve proven to be very corrupt.
Watch what happens with APS and the GBI.

The Superintendent has resigned…but her trash is still spread throughout the system.
Watch what happens next.

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I think the MEDIA adults are the “idiots” and the children are just modeling their behavior.

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@ Math Maestro

I do wish I could protect your ideal and tell you it is going to get better…
But, I have seen it get much worse.

File a “positive” GRIEVANCE in your school SYSTEM when you don’t agree…
Test the system…see how it works.

Disagree with your administrator about your evaluation…attempt to “do the right thing” if your administrator doesn’t…and see what happens.

I would like to see the “system” work too…

See what happens to you…if you as a teacher…split your classroom in half and segregate the child that do…and those that don’t.

Do this with your classroom…and you will be fired and lose your license to teach.
Yet the school systems are doing the same in middle and high schools…labeling students in groups and programs under the disguise of grouping according to ability.

As I said…I’ve not given up…
Everyday…they create another label to disguise the obvious.
Colored …becomes people of color.
Idiots are running most of the systems in place.
This is not negative…this is a positive…we know they are idiots.
That’s a good thing.

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This is an exhausting blog. Yes, kids lie. I didn’t believe it until I was a career changer and went in to teaching. As a parent it was a stunning experience to see what actually goes on in the classroom. Kids, parents, and administrators expect the teacher to daily “entertain” the children so the kids will learn in the environment the child wants. The focus is on classroom management and CYA in case of lawsuits. But then we have to cover the standards too. Cameras in the classroom are not a solution because people will see what they want to see anyway. If administrators want a teacher out, then they will find excuses to make it happen. Most parents and children are cooperative and want to do well, but the 15% will do anything to disrupt a class to make themselves look good to peers. And yes, I blame it on Happy Meals and children’s church. We have catored to our children too much and have not taught young children to integrate into an adult world.

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yes, we are raising idiots. yes, cameras in every classroom (viewable by administrators or public safety officers) are a great idea (i have two in my classroom).

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@ Math Maestro

“Just look at Mark Zuckerberg who created Facebook, and is a billionaire at the age of 26.
I’m sure Zuckerberg never intended FB to be a bullying or a threat-inducing forum. FB is still a very positive platform for old friends to stay connected, and learn something new everyday.”

The use of something for either POSITIVE or NEGATIVE is in the mind of the human.
A pencil can be used for positive…writing, creating art…etc.
It can also be used as a negative…taking out the eyes of a classmate.

In this world we live in…(as I used to teach First Graders…IF I ATTEMPTED TO REMOVE EVERYTHING IN THE CLASSROOM THAT COULD BE USED AS A WEAPON…we would be sitting on the floor with our hands tied behind our backs so I could teach.)

The MIND makes the weapon…shoots the gun…etc.
The HUMAN MIND in this SOCIETY must change or OUR SOCIETY is doomed to fail.

The foundations of the Nobel Prize were laid in 1895 when Alfred Nobel wrote his last will, leaving much of his wealth for its establishment. Since 1901, the prize has honored men and women for outstanding achievements in physics, chemistry, medicine, literature and for work in peace.

Dynamite was made without the intentions of using it for war…

In 1888 Alfred’s brother Ludvig died while visiting Cannes and a French newspaper erroneously published Alfred’s obituary. It condemned him for his invention of dynamite and is said to have brought about his decision to leave a better legacy after his death. The obituary stated Le marchand de la mort est mort (”The merchant of death is dead”) and went on to say, “Dr. Alfred Nobel, who became rich by finding ways to kill more people faster than ever before, died yesterday.” Alfred was disappointed with what he read and concerned with how he would be remembered. On 27 November 1895, at the Swedish-Norwegian Club in Paris, Nobel signed his last will and testament and set aside the bulk of his estate to establish the Nobel Prizes, to be awarded annually without distinction of nationality. He died of a stroke on 10 December 1896 at Sanremo, Italy. After taxes and bequests to individuals, Nobel’s will gave 31,225,000 Swedish kronor (equivalent to about 1.8 billion kronor or 250 million US dollars in 2008) to fund the prizes.

As with dynamite…many things in this world were created for good…FACEBOOK is one of millions of inventions…
It is the human mind that twists its use for bad…

In a teacher’s world…some inventions for maintaining excellence are the creation of a Georgia State PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN…
or an APS- GRIEVANCE PROCEDURE…

ALL WERE DESIGNED FOR GOOD…
The human mind can use these tools for bad, too…

On December 22nd, in the face of seemingly unanimous bipartisan support, the Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act was killed at the last minute when a mystery Senator placed what’s called an anonymous hold on the bill. This bill had already been passed by the Senate earlier in December and by the House earlier that same day, but in the final vote on the reconciled bill, which is designed to protect government workers from being punished – as they usually are – for exposing illegality, waste and corruption – it was shut down by a lone anonymous hold.

The Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act is trying to bring back some order to the chaos in our CURRENT SYSTEMS…
Without this protection…people will not continue to speak out against the NEGATIVE actions in this world.

Silenced we will conform to the systemic problem.

Who is the mystery senator?

See more info…
http://www.wnyc.org/blowthewhistle/

When he died in 1896, Alfred Nobel left behind a nine million dollar endowment fund. The Nobel prize is awarded yearly to people whose work helps humanity.

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I am a white teacher in a title 1 middle school in Dekalb County. I continuously read all of the war stories in the AJC blogs and if I didn’t know better, I would say our youth today will be the demise of the country tommorrow. Yes, there are a certain percent of students that will be totally disrespectful. Overall, I find that majority of the students are good children that happen to often be in bad circumstances. Most of them, while they may not bring in their homework most of the time, are concerned about their education. Often these students go home and may take on the role of the parent because their mother is at work trying to make a living. These children are not idiots. Most of them are respectful. Why don’t you all concentrate a little of your effort on them. Teaching is my life other than my family. If you all consider it to be a war zone, maybe you need to leave the profession. I am strict with my students, but they know that I am fair with them and care deeply about their success. They respond positively to that concern. Maybe some of you shoud look at your attitude toward them and maybe you will find that their attitude is often a reflection of your attitude and not always their parent’s attitude. You tell or show a student enough times that you think they are idiots, a bothersome part of your life, and all negative things, don’t expect them to respect you either.

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Parents place few or no boundaries on their kids. Every little deed that their unaccomplished kids perform is over praised and deemed earth shatteringly `wonderful!`. The next generation of backwards losers is being coddled without consequences for their obtuse actions and perpetrated on America.

American schools and parents are turning substantially below average kids. The substandard evaluations are based not only on past U.S. standards, but based on their low ranking across the board by the World’s standards.

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In a word – yes. There’s no doubt in my mind that this generation will be the most useless in recorded history. Our school systems are irrevocably broken and most parents are too busy with careers to take care of the children they chose to bring into this world. This generation is hamstrung by laziness, apathy, and the lack of common sense. They are incapable of analyzing a situation and drawing their own conclusion. If there ever were a generation that could conceivably all the country to fail, it will be this group of useless individuals.

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I believe most students may not always want to learn but most want to do right. I teach middle school and it’s difficult for students as they value their peers opinions over their teachers so decisions are often made based on what their friends would think is cool. Unfortunately teachers have been made to be the enemy or the buffoon in popular culture. Watch TV and most teachers are portrayed as incompetent, boring and even the enemy. There has been only one television show in recent memory (Ned’s Declassified) that portrays school a s a positive environment where teacher care about their students. Maybe a little more focus on the positives in education especially in children’s programming would help.
Saying that pop culture TV, movies, music etc. are partly to blame is not the blame game its reality. I for one would like to see producers and directors create programs that are more positive as we won’t ever get rid of TV as its part of our culture. Put pressure on producers and advertisers to create positive images in television and the movies. Eliminate poisons like reality TV, Gangsta rap, and other negative media and maybe we can reverse the trend

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They should be expelled and prosecuted! Then pu in prison for 12 for 15 years or longer!!!!!!

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Do you all see any connection between this type of behavior and what happened in AZ? I’m far away, so I would love to know what those of you on the ground think.

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It is my own personal opinion that the problems started way back when officials started listening to the crap spread by one Dr. Spock in the early 1950’s. Can’t spank our kids cuz it’ll harm their little psyceee’s? Didn’t know it was located beneath their diaper! I have heard that a child’s personality is pretty much formed by age 5, so I suggest that any parent (male and female) be required to take parenting classes B4 they are allowed to take the child out of the hospital! And when the child misbehaves jail the parents one at a time! Maybe they’ll take their job more seriously if they know they will be sent to jail ALONG WITH their little monsters!!!! Make the parents do those city and county jobs cities can’t afford to pay for anymore; like cleaning the streets, public toilets, and picking up garbage – preferably on a very hot day! Or if they live in a northern clime – shovel snow till they can’t bend over to pick up their favorite fork. Parents, are you getting the hint? You gave birth to them, they are YOUR responsibility!!!!!! If you don’t want to be a parent keep your legs crossed in the first place, barring that give them up early to those who will pay attention to the responsibility!

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Jan B- I think I’d recommend a parenting class for you. The problem with Dr. Spock’s advice was not that he advocated refraining from hitting children (we have neurological evidence today that supports that position), but that he suggested letting infants and toddlers cry themselves out without the parent responding to the crying. He taught parents to essentially ignore the natural cries of their babies to “teach” them to be good. This caused attachment problems with a whole generation of children (he sold more books than any other book except the bible, which has its own serious shortcomings in child rearing advice). Children with attachment deficits during the first two years of life are very likely to suffer from a host of serious problems their entire lives- behavioral, emotional, social, intellectual, developmental, cognitive, in school, in relationships, with crimes, etc. Studies from orphanages in eastern Europe after the Red Curtain fell provided much evidence for this disorder. This was likely a contributing factor to the generation in the 70’s and 80’s who divorced more than half the time. We have better science now. We should use it. But Americans don’t believe in science because it would make it harder to maintain their religious fantasies. At a time when humanity could be making real progress we’re trying our best to enter into another Dark Age.

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Progressive Humanist: I like you!
To the original question – sadly the things I see and hear everyday from our parents makes me think yes. There are wonderful exceptions but the overall picture is fairly bleak. I hesistate to label any of my students “idiots” but it’s not hard to look at the actions of parents in this manner.

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If the question is, “Is Georgia raising idiots,” the answer is simple: of course. Georgia’s public school reputation has always been dreadful, and under the increasing sway of the right wing, gets worse every year. Better, says the right, to educate white kids in private schools and let the devil take the hindmost.

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Some children can be saved with intervention by a caring teacher. A parent must stay involved with their child’s school and teacher. My nephew has been attacked at a middle school twice by a child larger than him. He’s been choked and kicked. Once again, school authorities took it nowhere. I told his parents file charges. As teachers, it is our job to teach your children and to maintain order in the classroom. I still love teaching and I love kids. However, there is no way on earth that a child will run me.
Our administrators try to play games. They stack discipline problems in the classrooms of us so called trouble makers. After 28 years, I just deal. I will call parents, write, conference and document. If a child threatens physical harm against me, it’s called 911. If a child trys to put their hands on me, it’s called self-defense.
If a child is disrupting my class to the point where the other kids can’t learn, ain’t that much coddling in the world. They will be removed by any means necessary. They need an alternative setting. We don’t have time for children who can’t behave. We have to teach.

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We’re to late in raising idiots, theiry already here, and doing well in Washington DC!!!!!

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Are we raising idiots? Yes.

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When we have public figures putting out ads with crosshairs on political enemies, how can we be surprised when our children think it’s ok to do something similar? The adults said they didn’t mean it to be a call to violence either…children learn from their elders.

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I’m in my 12th year of teaching and I’ve seen some crazy things go on in schools/classrooms. I’ve also seen some wonderful things. I’ve seen the most popular girl in school befriend an autistic student in my class and agree to be his student buddy. I’ve seen students who had very little themselves raise thousands of dollars for those who had even less. I’ve seen students who work their hardest and try their hardest every day. Sadly, I’ve seen less of this than I have of selfish students who want to do the very least and expect the very most. Their parents are amazed that they won’t do their homework, yet refuse to take away the TV, electronics, and phones. I’ve seen parents claim they never knew their child’s grade in my class despite the fact that I email them home every other week AND our county provides a parent portal where they can go everyday. “I don’t have time” is the excuse I’ve been given. Wonder how much time they spent playing farmville? The expectations of hard work and success in school comes from the home. Without that, it is an uphill battle to get students to want to learn and want to do their best.
I’d also like to clear up one misunderstanding that I keep seeing in many of these posts. Teachers in GA are NOT unionized. That may be the situation in some city school districts, but as a whole, teachers in the state are not unionized. In GA, PAGE and GAE are available to teachers as a way to lobby for better decisions in education and to provide legal help when needed; however, neither group has the power to fight for higher wages, better benefits, or anything else for teachers. Neither of these groups is a “union” in the way you see in NY, NJ, and other northern states. Do you really think that GA would be issuing furlough days every year if teachers had a union to fight back? Do you think that teachers who were downsized out of a job because of budget cuts would be considered “fired” if there was a union to fight for a change? Feel free to blame unions for the problems in unionized states, but there are no unions here.

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The answer to the question at hand can be answered simply: the inappropriate behaviors we see at school are those that are permitted at home, ignored (state of denial) at home, or modeled at home by adults. End of story.

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A little off topic, but…I was watching re-runs of the Women of Cell Block 6 on TNT yesterday. Most of the women featured were in their early to mid 20’s, had children being raised by grandparents, were in for drug charges, and were repeat offenders.

Some had graduated high school, but most had not.

The attitudes of the women were almost comical. Some were “whining” about how the police officer(s) were talking to them and treating them. I was thinking “this isn’t high school sweetie” where a teacher could get in trouble for not asking a student “nicely” to spit out his/her gum.

Our schools, admin.’s and parents coddle and are too lienient with kids and they get these nasty little attitudes.

The women featured couldn’t believe that their behavior/choices had landed them in jail. So unfair…whaa!

It parallels what’s going on in the schools..teachers are mean and expect too much…how dare you expect me to suffer any consequences.

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If you suspend a kid these days for anything short of mayhem the parents are likely to taken the school system to court. Having worked in both public and private schools since 1971, I can tell you that parents today look upon the school-parent relationship not as a joint enterprise to educate a child but as an adversarial relationship where their duty is to serve as Defense Attorney and challenge every .single thing the school tries to do. Parents are the idiots, not the schools.

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@Gwinnett Teacher SAID:

I’d also like to clear up one misunderstanding that I keep seeing in many of these posts. Teachers in GA are NOT unionized. That may be the situation in some city school districts, but as a whole, teachers in the state are not unionized. In GA, PAGE and GAE are available to teachers as a way to lobby for better decisions in education and to provide legal help when needed; however, neither group has the power to fight for higher wages, better benefits, or anything else for teachers. Neither of these groups is a “union” in the way you see in NY, NJ, and other northern states. Do you really think that GA would be issuing furlough days every year if teachers had a union to fight back? Do you think that teachers who were downsized out of a job because of budget cuts would be considered “fired” if there was a union to fight for a change? Feel free to blame unions for the problems in unionized states, but there are no unions here.

YES…you are exactly right…
Right to hire …Right to FIRE…Right to RETALIATE…
Right Harass…Right to Humiliate…
http://www.TopPublicSchoolCorruptionAtlanta.com

The system can basically do whatever they would like to do…as long as they do not break a law…

There are no UNIONS IN THE SOUTH…
and NO REAL due process…or greivance procedures that will work.

Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act is a threat to the SOUTHERN ways of “doing it”
here in the south. see: http://www.wnyc.org/blowthewhistle/

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The reason PRIVATE SCHOOLS work is because the PARENTS can’t control what they do.
If your child causes a problem…YOU ARE OUT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD LOOP…
If your child can’t keep up with the curriculum …YOU HIRE A TUTOR….

NEIGHBORHOOD PUBLIC SCHOOLS…with active parent participation…WANT TO RUN THEIR SCHOOLS LIKE THEY ARE private schools. This is the problem…

No need to have ADMINISTRATION… the IN THE LOOP …PARENTS are the ADMINISTRATION.

So take on some problem children…and let the PTA HANDLE IT in the PUBLIC/PRIVATE SYSTEM…

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@Dekalb Teacher: I know not ALL students are like this and that there are some really great parents, but we are talking about students who make bad choices.

However, in my day…the kids that got into trouble…had a “challenging” homelife (fighting/divorced parents, unemployed parents, molestation, abuse, drinking, drugs, etc).

Some of today’s kids from good homes are pampered and have too many electronic “toys”/devices that can get them into trouble if the PARENTS aren’t monitoring them. Also, different types of drugs are being used to get high (nutmeg??). In my day nutmeg was used for baking and spicing up your egg nog.

Parental responsibilities have changed and have grown (increased), just as teacher responsibilities have changed and grown.

It’s a changing and challenging world and will only get more so in the future. Parents and teachers need to try and keep up, or our children will continue to suffer and make bad choices.

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are we rasing idiots?
yup.

why?
our children are modeling our behaviors.

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Inman Park Boy,

We should not allow administrators to refrain from executing their duty to provide safe, orderly learning environments because of fear of parent-instigated lawsuits. Because local BOEs frequently lack the financial and legal “muscle” to defend against lawsuits, why don’t the local BOEs use their political influence to induce the AG to use its muscle to represent local administrators who are defending our schools as places of learning?

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Look at the adversarial attitudes of the teachers on this blog!

With these caustic, angry attitudes, why would you expect students to come in and act anything less than adversarial themselves? Don’t kid yourself and think kids are too stupid to tell how you really feel towards them and their families. They know.

So, who has really turned the classroom into the war zone you all describe? You reach CHILDREN! You should keep that in mind…

And yes, I teach.

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TopSchool: for the last 2 years my school system has employed an attorney to come around and give us information, over several afternoons, about liability, reporting mandates, etc.

I took her aside and asked her: So what if I report something illegal that has gone on–what protection do I have as a whistleblower? Her answer: None.

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YOU SHOULD NOT REPORT anything TO anyone IN THIS STATE…
They are all SLAPPING EACH OTHER ON THE BACK…as I am sure you already know.

Contact Richard Condit or Tom Devine at GAP.
Tell them JOHN SAM sent you.

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Still caught in filter

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@I love teaching, but….
Here, here! I tried to submit something similar to your comments, but was filtered out. I also think that due to the high tech toys that our kids have, today’s parents have (or should have) added responsiblities (just like teachers)when raising, teaching their children(as opposed to say when I was in school…no internet, etc). It is the parent’s responsibility to monitor their children while they use the internet, facebook, etc. Even kids from “good” homes can get into trouble using these new things if not monitored or not given any restrictions or guidelines…. from their PARENTS!

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@I love…Yes. get out of the profession.

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@ mirror …you are only seeing your reflection.
IF YOU ARE LOOKING THROUGH ROSE COLORED GLASSES…you can’t see all the issues…

Anger is part of solving the problem…
and finding a solution.

Some people in some of their circumstances have a right to be angry.

All movements to make change have elements of ANGER that help it to rise to the LEVEL of making a change.

The PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEMS need to CHANGE.

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What teachers often forget is that a lot of students have the right to be angry due to their home situations and require a lot more love, patience and many different behavior strategies to be reached. But a number of teachers just meet their anger with more anger, creating a vicious circle that spirals further and further out of control. Teachers should approach these student relationships with the mindset that they will break this cycle, not perpetuate it. Tough? Sure. Sustainable? Maybe not. But it is undoubtedly worth it and if teachers cannot, or have lost the ability to turn the other cheek, it is time to move on.

Maybe it requires teachers who only teach for 5-7 years at a stretch in these areas. Maybe we should offer incentives for teachers to teach in these schools. I don’t know. But I do know that the vitriol shown towards these students and their families in this blog will do nothing but make the situation worse. The anger might be genuine and well deserved, but it has no place in a classroom around CHILDREN.

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Schools have been trying to warn parents about the dangers of unsupervised internet usage. We hold Parent Seminars and maybe 5-10 parents actually come. We put articles in newsletters. We talk to kids in our DARE classes about the dangers of sharing personal information. When fifth graders are asked, “How many of you are on FACEBOOK?” about 3/4 of them raise their hands. Regular parents DO NOT agree that children can be too young to have cell phones, text, or surf Google unassisted. The parents are texting while driving, reading their elementary kids’ text messages and sending threatening text messages to children who text something unpleasant to their child. I know this sounds crazy, but it is our current reality. Parents ARE NOT monitoring TV, cell phones, or internet usage and act like educators are just not With It. PARENTS ARE THE IDIOTS!

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“but they still wanted to be at school and were still respectful of their teachers”

Probably because they had good teachers in school, early and often.

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“all the patience and love I can give them is just not enough to undo the psychological damage they have suffered.”

So we give up? So we let the cycle continue? They leave school, go have kids of their own and make the problem worse. I guess I’d rather just keep trying to solve the problem. If that means I teach 10 more years instead of 20, so be it. I’d rather get out when I burn out than stay in and start to do damage.

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I suggested that I love teaching needs to leave. You have not demonstrated the level of anger that she has.

My only quibble with your position would be that I don’t think teachers should expend so much energy telling parents how to raise their children. No one has all the answers.

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@ mirror

you seem to have no issue with telling us how to do our job.
turnabout is only fair.

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@bootney – So what do we do with all the kids we “show the door”? Jail is expensive too. Jobs aren’t exactly plentiful either…

And pardon me for suggesting we should stop filling this blog with hate, I realize my hypocrisy now. Many pardons…

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I’m unwilling to sacrifice the vast majority of kids who want to
try their best to pander to the losers, fools, hoods, and thugs.

life is full of consequences. if this minority of children find themselves SOL via their own bad choices, maybe they’ll get motivated
to make better ones in the future

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if Mirror is willing to put his actions where his keyboard is,
your nearest school would be more than happy for you to come
and volunteer.

provided he doesn’t walk in telling us how everything we do
and think is wrong until he actually logs some time…

then it would be much easier to take his “advice and counsel” a bit more
seriously

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@bootney – I’m a teacher. In a tough, Title 1 school, in APS, so don’t call out my chops…

@JW – this blog is a public forum and the readers of this blog who are outside of the profession can’t help but think that our profession is full of anger and disdain towards the families we are supposed to serve. Teachers should be responsible about how they post and think about how their rantings affect our profession. The teachers here NEVER have anything positive to say, about ANYTHING, it is cartoonish. And if you think the attitudes that are displayed on this blog are hidden from the students they step in front of every day, you are naive.

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@ mirror

I’m the king of Upper Volta.

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I Love to Teach,

Have you developed positive relationships with concerned administrators, colleagues and/or parents? Through such relationships with caring admins, colleagues and/or parents, you can improve your teaching and your students’ learning situations. Don’t give up on yourself and your ability to help your kids learn.

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Gee bootney, I guess we should just hope that people with anger issues should become bitter, caustic bloggers who hide the shallowness of their “beliefs” behind their “wit”. That would be great…

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how many kids educations should be disrupted to accomidate kids who are unwilling to control themselves?

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self control.
what a concept.

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Well, your stellar idea to just show kids the door, for one. Got some more detail on that plan, because to me it just continues to make the problem worse.

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I thought I was very out front with showing disprutive and dangerous kids the door.

did I use the wrong tense or something?

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ARE YOU SURPRISED? I AM NOT!
Four years ago while grading student writer’s notebooks, I encountered a book that was not supposed to be in the pile. The student had written detailed plans of how she and her friends were going to stab, beat, and kill her teachers and some students. And she named names. I was one of those scheduled to be stabbed and beaten to death The student was taken to a hearing and was only given 6 weeks of ISS. Then she was to come back to our team of teachers! We were told to send her work to ISS. I refused and told the AP that, not only would I not send work, I would not take her back in my class or acknowledge her existence if she was sent back to me. I informed the AP that I did not have to service a student who had threatened me with bodily harm. For this I was informed that I was “required” to send her work and that I would be written up for insubordination ( preface to a firing) if I did not comply. I promptly contacted my supportive principal, who was away at the time, and he ordered them to move her to another team. BUT SHE STILL CAME BACK TO THAT SCHOOL AND WALKED BY US EVERY DAY. Teachers get NO support. Survival is a skill we should not have to use but doe very day.

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Well, at least 1 out of 25 parents are responsible. Home schooling has grown from 20,000, thirty years ago, to 2 MILLION TODAY! I don’t think you would have any home schoolers promoting “Attack a Teacher Day”. In fact, our home school group dads sponsor an HONOR Your Teacher Day. We have been surprised with a limo pick-up and trip to a special restaurant. Our children made cards and wrote letters of appreciation.
http://www.activistpost.com/2011/01/over-two-million-children-are-now.html

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@ Dr. Craig,

myself I agree.
but he was only about three years away from retirement
and felt the system had too much leverage against him.

sounds like your system is much more supportative then ours.
we have had several faculty sue, and eventually win, but the offical
response is to drag things out to the point where most individuals
are unable to sustain a suit.

myself, I think if a kid attacks one of us, we should be able
to beat the hell out of them

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still waiting for someone to tell my why self control and some academic effort are such damning requirements for getting an education

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honest to God, I just don’t understand why requiring a kid to behave and
respectful of others is such a high price to pay for a free education.

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@ “NEVER” have anything positive say? That’s untrue and unfair. I am also not naive. I, too, teach in a Title 1 school. I generally have a great relationship with my students. That being said, I was punched in the face breaking up a fight. Another teacher was injured to the point of requiring physical therapy – paid for by taxpayer dollars, I might add. These things happen. It’s a problem. It’s a problem often hidden from parents, or the flight to private would be even worse.And to say that the kids have some kind of right to be angry is an excuse for them to act a fool, and for us to do no more than slap their hands and say, “Sorry, honey, that your life is tough.” I beleive that tough love still love, that kids need and crave boundaries, and that “if you don’t discipline your child, the sheriff will.” I think you might be the naive one.

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maybe, just maybe, junior will learn very quickly he needs to modify his behavior and get back into school.

otherwise, McDonalds is always hiring

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so what should we do with a student who rapes a teacher? or fellow student?

give them hugs and cookies?
advance them a grade?

get rid of the woman in question so she won’t be a sore point for
the offender in question?

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Mirror, you said, “And Elizabeth, by the logic of some posters here, the kid you describe was just “venting”…” That’s you being obtuse, and you know it. There is a difference between people complaining on a blog, and planning an all-out attack on a group of people (you know, like the difference between a blog complaining about the government and another orchestrating a terrorist attack). Jeesh…some people.

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They may be rare, but they do happen….betcha the parents of some of the Columbine victims wish someone had been able to err on the side of caution.

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By that definition, I should be able to vent here under my real name and receive noconsequences from my school system. And that is not going to happen.

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Kids do need to be taught. But as Bootney alluded, what is the lesson we are teaching? It’s ok to be late. It’s ok to not do your work. It’s ok to solve your problems with your fists. It’s ok to be disrespectful to your superiors. And nobody here cares enough about you to teach you any better how to survive in “the real world.”

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Not to mention – it’s ok to post whatever you want on the internet in general and Facebook and Twitter in specific without consequences. Yeah, let’s ask all those folks who who have either failed to obtain or lost a job due to what employers and potential employers find online what lesson they wish they had learned earlier.

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“I do not blame the children. I blame the horrible parents.”
I am sure there are many horrible parents out there. There are also many good parents who are naive as to the negative influence Facebook can have on their children. It is the ultimate in digital peer pressure that the weak and immature fall for. Also, what ever they post will be maintained FOREVER by Facebook…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B37wW9CGWyY

And while we are at it, let’s not overlook the really “badbad” teachers out there:
http://badbadteacher.com/page/2/

While I am grateful for the many good and caring teachers, all are not saints.

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Toto – where’s the link to child abuse statistics? Or to a webpage devoted to exposing parents that kill their kids ala Susan Smith? Let’s be fair here – I’ll concede that not all teachers are saints (I know for sure, I’m not, lol) if you cancede there are parents out there who do a pi$$ poor job – that there are parents out there raising kids with whom you don’t want your kids hanging.

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Maureen, You said….”we’re raising” kids. You erred, NO ONE is raising the kids! Being raised by their cellphones, Twitter, Facebook, television, and the internet.

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Toto says: “I do not blame the children. I blame the horrible parents.”

Kids and children are not as fragile as everyone believes. Students are very resilient. We, as adults, parents and teachers, need to stop telling the students “it is not your fault, but it is the parents, or the teachers, or the environment, etc”. Instead, we need to empower the kids to know that the decisions they make are very powerful, and can affect many people–just like the students of this incident that started this blog. And yes, even the Title 1 kids need to know that they have more control of their own destiny than adults telling them that the school has failed them. The children need consequences and not just the perpetual second chances. The problem is that most everyone knows how to give second chances, but not enough know how to give consequences.

China is predicted to pass the US as the #1 economy sometimes in the next 30 years, which is pretty significant considering 70 years ago China was war-torn and broke–and not to mention, there was a 10-years period of economic stagnation due to the Cultural Revolution. So the fact that China was able to grow to the #2 economy in 60 years reflect something about their education system.

China only offers public education up to the 9th grade, yet they top the US in college graduates per capita. 1 in 6 Americans have college education, while 1 in 4 Chinese have college education, so the argument that there are more Chinese do not hold water. And the other argument that Chinese have always been wealthy do not hold water either when they were broke and war-torn 70 years ago.

Chinese parents have to pay for high school, private tutors and college. Even the low-income peasant parents would sacrifice half of their yearly income to give their kids the best education their money can buy. The Chinese students do not see education as an entitlement, but a privilege, which is the opposite of what US students perceive. Chinese education uses the “show the door” practice all the time. And where do the students go if they can’t be in the classroom? Farms, factories, restaurants. etc. In a way, the less educated Chinese have made manufacturing costs cheaper, which is why you see more “Made in China” labels.

But this “show the door” policy will not work in the US because of political correctness, which there are none in China. And don’t think that the Chinese are not ethnically diverse–Chinese have more ethnic diversity than the US with more than 100 different local dialects spanning across geographic regions greater than the US. And not to mention the Chinese intolerance to crime like public execution or limb decapitation is not uncommon, but will be abhorred here in the US. That is why drop-outs will not fall into a life of crime like they do here in the US. The only problem with the Chinese education system is the focus on tests and the lack of creativity. But I put my money on the Chinese to find solutions to their problems before the we can figure out the problems to the US education.

I use China as the example because they are the model that many educators point to as doing it the right way. And hope this will guide the discussion on what teachers and parents need to do.

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Mirror,

Do you think that short-term suspensions will be consequences sufficient to teach these students and their observant peers that threatening teachers is neither cool nor cute? I don’t. These kids need consequences that will get their attention.

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It is time that we, as a society, quit making excuses for people who are violent, rude, corrupt, unethical, etc. It does not start with our holding chldren accountable, but it includes holding them accountable….them and their parents, and anyone who behaves in negative ways. I say the school certainly acted irresponsibly…and to you school admin. who say there needs to be more tolerance and role modeling… go for positive role modeling, yes. But more tolerant: NO! In many cases, if you don’t hold kids accountable for their actions, who will? Certainly not some of the parents! If you expect less of the kids who come from rough backgrounds or from homes where the parents are too selfinvolved and career climbing, your ignoring the bad behavior is discrimination!

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Georgia Coach, I applaud you- I wish more teachers would hear you, though. It’s very disheartening that we rarely hear this from teachers. The majority of students are not thugs with bad parents. Many of us have good kids…polite, respectful, good students…and they have many friends just like them. But in this blog, a continual, disheartening litany of complaints and disrespect for ALL parents persists- kids aren’t just getting this from parents, they are getting it from teachers,too. As a society, we just plain do not respect each other! Kids are smart-they see it everywhere…the adults have to change. The old,”do as I say and not as I do” never fooled any kid!

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Tot – you said, “But I would argue that percentage-wise they are in the small minority.” I would argue that for all the negative stuff – parent-wise, teacher-wise, student-wise…I will say that some stuff clusters, but overall averages are low for heinous crimes in all those categories.

“If home school parents did commit crimes, it would be widely publicized.” I’m actually very pro home school, if that’s your choice, and if you are doing it concientiously (and not just to avoid the compulsory attendance laws). I’ve met a few weird homeschoolers, but I think most of them would be weird even in school – truly gifted/Asperger’s etc – not to mention the fact I’ve met lots of weird kids in school (I teach middle school – they’re ALL weird, lol). I’ve also seen the negative effects of slack homeschooling – kids come back to school seriously behind. I do have a problem with that.

“But one must also consider the fact that compulsory attendance laws have been in effect since 1919 in Georgia.” I’m somewhat against compulsory attendance…but that’s just me, and I also know that removing them would open up another can of worms. I have no better suggestion for that one, so…

“The public schools have educated a majority of the population since that time. That means that a majority of those “horrible parents” were educated in the public schools. How do you explain their behavior?” The majority of those “horrible parents” probably learned their parenting skills from their parents, not schools (especially since parenting skills aren’t generally even taught). Parents have their kids for 5 years before the schools get them – and then only 6-7 hours a day 180 days a year for maybe the next 12 – 13. I think the parents have a significantly greater influence.

“Would you consider public education to be a failure?” For me personally, no, I would not. I was educated in a public school – as were virtually all of my family and friends. My family and friends include lawyers, accountants, business owners, IT professionals, cops, physical therapists, nurses – and yes, of course, teachers. Most of my friends and family have their children in public schools, and we are all generally happy with their performance. The difference is we are educated ourselves; we’ve prepared our kids; we set expectaions for performance and behavior; and we don’t leave to the school to do it all – especially adding enrichment or teaching morality. I will say that for the poor uneducated segments of our society, school may not do a very good job. But I also think that it because school is a middle class institution, with middle class rules, as well as the fact that we expect schools in those locations to fix all of society’s problems – an impossible task.

I read the linked article, and I have to say that I agree with a lot of what she says. But I also think that in the first 7 years of life, you set your children’s morals – if you do it right, you don’t have much to worry about from the “real world” – which I don’t think is real at all, but that’s JMHO. Just because your kids are in public school,doesn’t mean you still can’t set rules, monitor tv, etc, etc. I think too many folks abdicate that repsonsibility and then want to blame schools and teachers for their own weakness.

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Mirror is surely speaking from pure ignorance. Myself and others surely do not believe,s/he believes what s/he is saying.
To really think, with schools organized the way they are, that the teachers who vent here are simply making up stories…..is unbelievable.

S/He must be an administrator being cynical.

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I agree KIM; that’s what I was trying to say to Toto…

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Being suspended is only part of the punishment. They were arrested and will have to go before a judge, who can choose any one of several punishments. More than likely, they’ll have to do community service.

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