Prospect of teacher ratings sparks debate, criticisms
Since teacher ratings are of such great interest on the blog, I wanted to share part of an e-mail from a teacher to me and the legislators considering this idea, state Rep. Edward Lindsey’s response to the e-mail and then the letter that New York Chancellor Joel Klein wrote to his teachers explaining why he agreed to release effectiveness ratings there once the courts cleared the way.
I think all three give a pretty good summary of the pros and cons of this highly explosive issue. I think it is fair to say from the hundreds of response to the blog and personal e-mails to me that this is not an idea that Georgia teachers will easily endorse.
And teachers have not done so in Los Angeles where the LA Times released teacher ratings this summer that led to protests in the streets. Teachers are fighting release of similar effectiveness rankings in New York where the media want to see them and the school system wants to provide them under the rationale that parents deserve more information about their children’s teachers.
First, the e-mail from the outraged teacher, who also posted to the blog in shorter form:
This is one of the most ridiculous and insulting ideas in a long line of such that I have come to expect from this country’s politicians and put forth with some measure of support by the less-than-critical news media. I would suggest that this announcement smacks more of political grandstanding than of any substantive desire to improve our abysmal education ranking and that the AJC gives every appearance of serving as the mouthpiece.
As noted in my entry to the blog, teachers have long been subject to annual performance evaluations. Therefore, all your proposal would accomplish is to make these evaluations a matter of public knowledge, unless you intend to add yet another evaluation into the mix. What can possibly be gained by doing such a thing, other than spending taxpayer dollars to study how best to evaluate/report and develop a means of doing so? Will your proposal provide for the means for parents to request the “passing grade” teachers for their children? Will your proposal provide for the means of improvement of the “failing grade” teachers? Will your proposal provide a quantitative and verifiable means to help the students of this state? If not, then of what value is the public report card? If someone with less than stellar performance has remained on the job year in and year out, that is hardly their “fault.”
I would suggest that the one(s) not actually performing the duties of a job would be the administrator(s) incorrectly administering the evaluation instrument or following through with steps to negate the unsatisfactory results. Will your proposal provide for releasing the information contained within the performance evaluations in all prior years of the teacher’s employment so as to explain why someone with such a record has continued in the position
Does not the release of such information constitute a violation of privacy in some form or another as related to employment (public release of private evaluation information, for example)? So many lawsuits have been filed against former employers for giving bad references that few are now willing to say more than that an applicant was employed at the business during a specific time period. Yet the state of Georgia is now planning to release possibly detrimental data to the general public regarding its employees? Do you not feel that you will be exposing the taxpayers of this state as well as of the employing county to lawsuits by publishing such information?
Have you entered into any dialogue at all with the Georgia Department of Education on this topic? After all, is it not the purpose of that body to oversee matters of education in the state of Georgia? If, however, the legislature is now to address these issues, should not the DOE be disbanded? There would seem to be no reason to have such a department when the legislature will be addressing matters of education. Would not such a move serve to address some of the budget shortfall we are now facing in Georgia? Think of the money that could be saved by getting rid of unnecessary employees (all of them, apparently) in that department.
Surely, surely in these lean budget times there are more pressing issues of time and money that the lawmakers of this state should be addressing other than teacher report cards. However, if you feel that this is indeed a worthy pursuit, then I, as a taxpaying citizen of the state of Georgia, would ask that you also push for public report cards for members of the medical profession, the local police and fire forces, our county and city commissioners, any and all other individuals who are paid by local and state governments (including lawmakers in the state house, their staffs, employees of the governor’s office, local school boards, school administrators, bus drivers, cafeteria workers, secretaries, para-pros, coaches, etc., and every single person affiliated in any way with the Georgia Department of Education, elected or otherwise). As all of these people are paid in one way or another by taxpayer dollars (through mandated health care or checks from some level of government), I feel that we taxpayers are “entitled” to see the rating of each of these employees as well.
Do you not feel that citizens of this state have a right to see a report card on every government employee (including yourself) in this state, not just the teachers? Or, perhaps, have you come to understand that the state of Georgia really does have more important matters to address than those which already have a means of correction in place?
And Rep. Lindsey replied:
You have given me quite a stream of consciousness to consider. As I discussed with Ms. Downey, the teacher report card is one of many reforms being seriously studied and should not be viewed in isolation. We need to look at many areas of education including the curriculum in the pre K program, the number of standardized test being given, improving teacher quality, enhancing parental involvement, the high school graduation rates, the technical school program, and the hope scholarship. There is no one single bullet here and all issues need to be on the table.
I also emphasized to Ms. Downey the importance of teacher input on any reforms being advanced. That is what I am doing here now. The one thing that I will not accept is that the status quo is acceptable. My constituents in general and our next generation in particular deserve better. I believe I clearly know where you stand on teacher report cards; however, I also note from your e mail that you did not offer any constructive reforms that you believe would help move the ball forward. I look forward to hearing from you again with any such ideas.
And here is NY Chancellor Joel Klein’s letter to his teachers on why he agreed to release effectiveness ratings, pending the outcome of a court challenge by New York’s teacher union. The court has not ruled yet on the release:
Dear Colleagues,
As you have likely heard or read, several media outlets recently issued Freedom of Information Law (FOIL) requests to the City, requiring the Department to share the Teacher Data Reports we provide schools and teachers in grades 4 through 8 each year. These reports use a method called “value-added data” that seeks to predict student performance based on factors outside of a teacher’s control (high levels of poverty, for example), and then determines whether a given teacher’s students exceeded or fell short of these predicted examination scores (teachers may always access their reports at http://schools.nyc.gov/Teachers/TeacherDevelopment/TeacherDataToolkit/GetYourReports/default.htm).By controlling for factors beyond a teacher’s control, it is the fairest system-wide way we have to assess the real impact of teachers on student learning. And while the City’s particular value-add method is not etched in stone, this is why the State passed legislation this spring, endorsed by the teachers’ unions, committing to using value-added data for all teachers. It is also why value-added data is increasingly being used throughout the nation as part of a comprehensive system of teacher evaluation.
In the past we have provided the numeric value-added data to the press with no indication of the identity of individual teachers. I am writing to you today because media outlets, prompted by similar data being published by the Los Angeles Times, have requested the names of individual teachers, not just the statistics.
As it is the City’s legal interpretation that we are legally obligated to provide the media this information, it is our intent to provide the data as requested.
In the time since we informed the UFT that we intended to comply with the FOIL request, the union has sued the City to prevent the release, and we have agreed to delay any release until at least November 24, when a court hearing will be held. So no data have yet been released. But I want to make sure that, as you read about these events in the newspapers, you understand the circumstances and you understand my view on the issue overall.
Our most important task is to ensure that every one of our students has a great teacher. It is critical, therefore, that when we have indications of a teacher’s proficiency, we use that indication to do what’s right for kids. One indication will never tell the whole story, and sometimes it is hard to discern definitive evidence from data alone —such as with a teacher who is “average” according to these numbers, for example. But where teachers have performed consistently toward the top or the bottom, year after year, these data surely tell us something very important. Namely, we need to retain and reward the great teachers, and we need to develop the low-performing teachers. And those who don’t improve quickly need to be replaced with better-performing teachers.
Secretary Arne Duncan last week said it best when he said, “I give New York credit for sharing this information with teachers so they can improve and get better.” More than anything, these data demonstrate that we need a better, more comprehensive system of evaluation than the one we have now. That’s why the State legislature and the unions supported an evaluation system that uses value-added data. Now it’s time that the DOE and UFT together build a new system that gives teachers an honest sense of how well they’re doing and how they can improve.
In the end, this is about real people. On one hand, for too long, parents have been left out of the equation, left to pray each year that the teacher greeting their children on the first day of school is truly great, but with no real knowledge of whether that is the case, and with no recourse if it’s not.
But this is also about teachers. They take on the hardest work there is, and they deserve our respect. If anyone sees these data as an opportunity to scapegoat public servants, that is a mistake. Doing what’s right for children means making hard decisions; it has nothing to do with personal attacks.
We’ve made huge strides for our kids over the last eight years. That’s because we’ve been willing to face hard facts. It’s also because we have made kids’ best interests our shared priority. My hope is that we approach this issue with both of those thoughts in mind, ensuring fair treatment for adults, but always keeping children first.
Sincerely,
Joel I. Klein– By Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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264 comments Add your comment
I Really do Teach!
December 29th, 2010
3:51 pm
I am somewhat concerned about posting comments to a site such as this as I often read such angry, rude, comments by individuals who I feel really aren’t concerned about the issue at hand. With that being said I do feel I need to comment here.
I am a teacher. I have been teaching for over thirty years in two different states with a lot of different teaching experiences. I have often been evaluated by administrators who actually had spent little time in a classroom prior to going the route of administration. Many did this for monetary reasons, which I totally understand. I do however feel if one has not taught children to read or to develop mathematical understandings, then they really should not be evaluating what I do.
The last several years of teaching here in Georgia have been the most upsetting of my teaching career and it has little to do with becoming an older teacher. It has to do with the lack of respect I am given by many individuals and organizations that do not come into my classroom. I have always had high standards and high work ethic which I demand from myself as well as those I teach. I first encountered parents who could not accept their children were not going make the honor roll a few years ago as they had done previously. These were children who did not have the skills to produce work or evidence of learning. This did not mean these students were not able to develop these skills, it just meant they needed to accept the rigour had changed due to a more intensive curriculum. Parents were very annoyed by this concept. However, I can only say this was an anomaly. The vast majority of parents I have worked with have been supportive and appeared at conferences.
In regards to a report card based upon results from a standardized test I just do not see it being valid. I want to be judged by the growth my students make during the time I am their teacher. I do not want to be compared to the teacher down the hall who has a class filled with high performing students who may not put forth the effort students in more challenging classes often do and who have a much farther distance to travel.
I am very much in support of recognizing that individuals are not equal. They do not learn the same, they are often not interested in much of the curriculum we present, and we do not accept the current system of college bound for all is not the answer. We are not giving our students real opportunities, we are just literally micromanaging learning for the purpose of these tests.
I do not have any real answers to this dilemma about teacher performance. The point is teachers do not make a lot of money and class sizes do have an impact. Not requiring mastery of basic skills at the early grades is also an issue. It is very difficult to actually teach upper level math skills to students who have no mastery or understanding of basic math. We do not read in school anymore as we become a nation of basal readers produced by textbook companies. Students have reading textbooks, not reading material. There is not enough reading and discussion of non-fictional text. There are not enough opportunities for students to actually read for pleasure. One does not develop reading comprehension skills if there are not real opportunities for reading in school. Multiple choice questions should not even be in the ball park in elementary school. I could go on and on, but I am just a teacher and not a politician.
I still love teaching. There is nothing quite as magical as the wonder of when one of my students suddenly gets a concept that has been just out of reach.
Arch Dawg
December 29th, 2010
4:10 pm
Season 4 of ‘The Wire’, the highly acclaimed drama from HBO a couple of years ago is a sad but very accurate portrayal of most inner city schools in America. Anyone who thinks all of educations problems starts with a few less than stellar teachers should watch the show. It touches on the political corruption, overbearing administration, unprepared and violent children, and the lure/reality of drugs in the community.
My Mother-in-law was a teacher, she retired after being demoted from teaching Latin, Advanced English, and Shakepserean Lit because a parent sued the school because their little Johnny didn’t get into Harvard or Yale. Somehow it all came down to her fault. The school board refused to defend her for because they could not bear the cost. And this was in a good system. Not only did she retire but she made sure her daughter would never go into teaching (my wife actually changed her college major after the incident).
My Mother was a teacher who crossed an angry Administrator and after 3 years of being subjected to essentially professional harassment quit and has had a long and prosperous career outside of teaching.
You can only rely on someone’s love of their craft to make them get up and do to work everyday and perform their duties at a high level. Eventually the love of their profession is not enough to overcome the working conditions, low wages, lack of respect, unending red tape, and political meddling. I’m actually shocked that anyone would persue teaching as a career anymore.
Although the same can be said about my profession.
Another Good Teacher Bites the Dust
December 29th, 2010
4:44 pm
Wait until you get to be our age young teacher…ha, ha, ha…if you last that long. Get one of those D.A.M.F.’s fixed classes every year and you’ll be singing a different tune. 60-70 hour weeks get old after 10 years dearie. After 20 years, your health just won’t allow it. You have to cut it down to about 50. I’ve hung in there for 28 and I can still do about 55. Right, I’m expected to give up the extra hours of my life but no other profession does it without pay. I do it for love dearie and you’re so young you don’t realize what you’re giving up. The rest of us understand respect for the profession. Bye now.
What's really going on
December 29th, 2010
4:45 pm
@HS Public Teacher.. Clearly you are emotional about this topic, and as a teacher you have earned to right to be. However, to be clear on how much “butt sitting” I do, i’d say I sit on my “butt” a lot less than you are assuming. I actually do visit classrooms of my 3 children quite often, attend fieldtrips, and all the other things that a parent is expected to do and more. I have also had the pleasure of de facto home schooling them as well, when for any number of reasons their teacher was not successful at teaching a particular concept. Whether it was due to the teacher’s poor command of the subject matter, a disruptive child, too many kids in the classroom, or otherwise, it doesn’t matter; the kids have to learn. When other parents won’t pay for a field trip or send in classroom supplies, I’m the one who you can call to cover the cost or make a run to Costco or Walmart so all the kids don’t have to suffer due to a few parents who either don’t have the means to pitch in or who unfortunately have other priorities other than their child’s education. I will also add that a family member works in a school district in the metro ATL area in schools made up primarily of lower income students and believe you me, I have heard it all. I mean the raw, unfiltered, types of situations that arise with kids, many of which I feel should make the 5:00 news! It’s every type of abuse you can think of; it’s mothers who forsake their children; absentee fathers; drugs, crimes, fights, and anything else in between. Mind you I grew up in a neighborhood where I saw many of these same things happen with childhood friends so although it’s sad that kids have to go thru these things, it is not beyond belief. The frequency that these things occur nowadays is, however, very concerning.
As to the point about report cards, I am not suggesting that teachers “need” them so do not feel insulted. Would they add value to parents interested in knowing more about the teacher that is in front of my child… yes. Personally, I find it insulting that you would assume that I, as (apparently) a simpleton of a parent, would blindly assume that this report card would be my only metric for forming an opinion about the quality of a teacher for not all kids, but MY CHILD. One man’s trash is another man’s treasure. I would put about as much credence into it as I would the report cards my kids or any kids bring home. There have been times where I felt certain grades on my child’s report card was “indicative” of how my child is doing but not something I could take at face value. It depends on the teacher (or evaluator in the case of teacher report cards) and how much “feel good learning” is being thrust upon my child.
My general point about this report card and other “reform” measures is that it seems that for most such measure that the train has already left the station and that public school educators need to get on the train and try to be the conductor. And in other cases fire up your own locomotive and get a train moving. I havent the time to read all of your posts but based purely on what you responded to me, I will comment on a few points..
- in the 3rd paragraph- i agree..I am not aware of other professions for which this is not only required, but required to be public info. Aside from some websites where folks give reviews of say doctors, handymen, or sites like ratemyteacher.com and the like I am not aware of anything. That said, the one difference in other professions is that I HAVE A CHOICE in the matter. If i visit a doctor and i do not like them for whatever reason, I do not go back. If i hire someone to do work on my house, car, whatever, and they do a terrible job, I can choose to not deal with them again, cancel a check or whatever. When I need a new pair of shoes, I have choices!
- in the 4th section – I am not sure if you are in a hardcore title 1 school or what but if you were’ you’d know that for the sort of uncaring parents and unruly kids we are talking about that your solution there would not matter one bit. Shame— are you kidding me?!?!? Many parents wont care, or wont even know they are “listed”, and eventually it might turn into a badge of honor for the kids. Then we’ll have teachers coming down with, what is it called– “chalkboard flu” when they get too many kids from parents who have been outted by the system you propose.
- for your salt in the wound paragraph i will say this, join the club! you sound about as helpless as do the many parents who are simply looking for the best education for their child who is fed up with one size fits all approach to teaching, and the infinite number of “reasons” as to why kids are not learning.
… I could go on with the rest of your response, but at the end of the day, I think we can both agree that there are some things that need to be changed. I hate to sound crass, but I think that a lot of the reforms that you and many other educators seem to complain about are cropping up largely because some educators in decision making positions at some point in time haven’t done a good job of taking care of their own “house” that they’ve had, and quite frankly still have a monopoly on. Furthermore, for just about everything that you may feel is dumb or was thought up by some politician who hasn’t a clue or even a stupid parent like myself who sits on his butt behind a computer, that I could, with little effort find what is felt to be reputable research by a reputable Educator or former Educator (so you cant argue the point that they are just dumb politicians or parents) from one of the prominent Teachers colleges in the country that supports it! So from my vantage point there isn’t even agreement among Educators what works! How helpless do you think that makes parents feel? What’s worse is that because the public education system has a monopoly, most parents have little to no choice to opt for any alternatives. So I say, if an option were on the table to give parents choice, and I mean real choice…
- expanding Hb251 to include interdistrict transfers, provide transportation, and alter the definition of “available space”.
- vouchers
- more themed schools in traditional public schools in the elementary and middle school grades
- break down the walls of the “private” public schools that remain that way via highly political district boundaries that zig-zag around apartment communities, and streets to keep out certain categories of students
- etc..
… then I would agree with you that these teacher report cards are a waste of time. However, since most parents do not have real choices; we need to arm them with as much information as possible to work the system as best they can. Last time I checked principals and maybe teachers like yourself are not openly informing parents of the teachers’ classroom to avoid. Yes, if you are “in the know” or have the luxury of being at the school at least once a week you may come to find out on your own, but the vast majority of parents are not in the know, havent the time to visit schools that frequently, and do not know the teachers who are best for their child.
Final point to @HS Public Teacher… If your child was sick and needed life saving surgery, and I told you that there was only one hospital with 10 different doctors that you could use, how would you feel? What would you do? Although it is true that all of the doctors went to medical school (although u dont know if they went to Johns Hopkins, Harvard, or some online medical school), passed a test to get licensed, wouldn’t it also be useful for you to know, as a parent, which one would be best for your child even if the metric for evaluating them (i.e., their report card) was as crude as (i cant think of anything better for the example) how many surgeries they had attempted in the past year for which deaths were the outcome, or where heavy post op procedures were needed due to complications and potential mistakes made by the doctor??? Teachers are not performing life or death surgeries, BUT a string of bad teachers (i’ve read research to sugggest that 2 consecutive years of bad teaching will create major grade level setbacks in terms of achievement) and inferior schools will surely alter the trajectory of the life of a child. And in the very communities that are so challenging to educate, the ramifications of failure are so much higher, not just to that community, but to our entire nation. So in many respects, you all, as teachers are charged with “saving” lives as well.
Actually one question to HS Public Teacher… If you could assume for a minute that the report card bill will be passed, what things should it measure?
catlady
December 29th, 2010
4:47 pm
Ms. Downey@9:34: Don’t know if anyone has corrected you yet, but the legislators get that $17,000 plus ~$175 per day for ANY day they claim to work on state business. Many of them hold “hearings” or somesuch quite often, and balloon that pay into $34,000 or more. So let’s not hear of the part time job and meagre earnings. Like much else at the Gold Dome, it is ripe for abuse. Taxpayers, lock up your daughters and guard your pocketbooks, the legislature is coming to town!
Math Teacher
December 29th, 2010
4:55 pm
Hearing things like this make me seriously consider finding another job, which I am able to do with degrees in more than one area. The people who can’t get a different job are the “bad” teachers with fewer skills. If you want to improve education, you should make teaching a more attractive job, not less.
I have no problem being evaluated, even publicly, as long as it’s based solely on factors within my control. This is going to be as successful as our War on Drugs.
ScienceTeacher671
December 29th, 2010
4:57 pm
@Another Good Teacher Bites the Dust – Thanks!
Unfortunately I think your scenarios are all too likely if report cards become a reality.
Henry County Mom
December 29th, 2010
4:59 pm
Where else can you work 40 days and get $17K?
RBN
December 29th, 2010
5:05 pm
Wow, strong reactions all around. As I have said before, Maureen, one of the biggest impediments in improving education in Georgia is the lack of confidence teachers have in any of the decision makers in power. No wonder given the record of the last eight years, and to be fair the roller coaster of the previous four. Reason rarely rules, but the evaluation process is incredibly weak in Georgia, probably purposely so, given the weakness of so many administrators in the state (not all, but too many) and the lack of support for teacher development. First, we need to develop a high quality evaluation system that includes student performance. I use the we in its truest sense. Teachers like myself have become extremly cynical of the motives of our legislative, gubernatorial, and DOE colleagues. Next, the teaching profession needs to be professionalized, with high entry standards, real mentoring by practicing mentor and master teachers, advancement opportunities that keep teachers teaching, group incentives to improve performance, and a truly professional salary. Yes, underperformers need to be assisted and if not successful counseled out early. States like Connecticut which embarked down this path lead in student performance.
Unfortunately, Georgia has wandered down a different path -underfunding, over testing, and a continual parade of dogma driven legislative “fixes”. Until someone truly puts teachers, yes Maureen – with more than three years experience, at a meaningful place at the “table”, then little will change. I believe that Rep Lindsay is sincere in his efforts; I hope his colleagues, particularly in the senate controlled by anti-public education voucher proponents will be equally as sincere.
Dr. Craig Spinks /Augusta
December 29th, 2010
5:08 pm
Teacher and Mom,
Thanks for the info about The Gates Foundation.
Dr. Richard Buddin at The Rand Corporation has done work linking teacher evaluation with student learning. Moreover, The LA Times, The NY Times and Gotham Schools provide more info on teacher report cards. There’s a GCSU Economics prof who’s also done work in the area of value-added learning.
P.S. Should The Gates Foundation or another disinterested philanthropic entity finance a pilot study of the use of a teacher report card in GA? The pilot study would be conducted by another disinterested, out-of-state entity with a history of expertise in linking staff compensation with student outcomes among which would include, but not be limited to, student achievement and/or progress?
Dr. Craig Spinks /Augusta
December 29th, 2010
5:15 pm
OOPS! Please delete “among” from the penultimate line above.
We lost our way
December 29th, 2010
5:21 pm
@Catlady and other taxpayers who care. Not only do they get 17+K for 40 days but they are vested in the State Retirement System. They get One Year of credit service for 40 days of work. A state employee must work 12 MONTHS to get one year of service credit. Also in 2010 the State Retirement gave the retired lawmakers a cost of living raise of 3% .However they did not give the retired state employees a cost of living raise.They also get to use the state Health Insurance program for themselves and family. Than there is the big one which benefits all who leave or go into business–Inside Network. Check to see how many go into lobby or working for a large corporation.All the contacts made in the gold dome provides good paying jobs. You help me,I will help you! Good Ole boy system at its best!!
ScienceTeacher671
December 29th, 2010
5:24 pm
17+K for 40 days – wow. More per day than all but a few Ph.D. teachers make, eh?
catlady
December 29th, 2010
5:39 pm
Ms. Downey, are any of our legislators themselves former teachers?
TopSchool
December 29th, 2010
5:48 pm
@ we lost our way and @ catlady…
I think I get it totally…The Best of Buckhead.
I Really do Teach!
December 29th, 2010
5:48 pm
To: catlady
I believe Ellis Black has some educational background.
Dekalbite
December 29th, 2010
5:58 pm
Representative Lindsey,
If you want to start trimming educational expenditures, please start with the very bloated Georgia Department of Education (DOE).
Look at the figures below. *I calculated the benefits cost to taxpayers at 25%.
Here are the Georgia DOE personnel costs for the last 3 years of the recession:
2008: $50,022,380 (with benefit cost – $62,527,975)
2009: $51,182,443 (with benefit cost – $63,978,052)
2010: $48,590,037 (with benefits – $60,737,546)
Look what taxpayers paid in travel costs for this group. 82 of them spent in excess of $10,000 a year traveling. I guess there’s no recession at the Georgia Department of Education:
2008: $3,404,299
2009: $2,697331
2010: $2,610,083
Georgia taxpayers spent $60,737,546 on salary and benefits for the DOE in 2010. This is down by less than 3% from 2008. Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t we in the middle of the worse economy since the Great Depression, and weren’t our tax revenues down quite a bit more than 3%?
What percent did teacher pay decrease during that time?
What percent was cut from Local Education Agencies during that time?
According to the 2010 state salary and travel audit at Open Georgia, the state superintendent for the Office of Standards, Instruction, and Assessment Martha Reichrath makes $173,000 in salary and benefits. Dr. Reichrath’s retirement from DeKalb County Schools was no less than $66,000 (see 2003 Georgia state and travel audit). The Georgia Department of Education has so many former Dekalb Schools administrators that it’s become like an “old folks home” for DeKalb administrative retirees. Garry McGiboney is another state superintendent who retired from DeKalb County at more than $72,000 a year and is making $139,500 in salary and benefits at the DOE. The Georgia Department of Education just hired another retired DeKalb Schools administrator Tony Eitel a few months ago. Tony retired from DeKalb County Schools making at least 60% of $119,940 ($72,000 a year) so I guess he’s set as well. Are these folks double dipping or just adding to their already stellar retirement?
The DOE had 17 Deputy and Associate State Superintendents in 2008 ($2,500,000 in salary and benefits), but they’re up to 19 Deputy and Associate State Superintendents now. Exactly how many of these State Superintendents do we need?
How did Governor Perdue and the state assembly let this group of administrators get so numerous and spend so much of our tax dollars on personnel who do not teach children?
Are other posters as uncomfortable as I am with these expenditures?
source: http://www.open.georgia.gov/
TopSchool
December 29th, 2010
5:58 pm
Not let’s consider the track record of bankers and Wall Street and analyze what is wrong with this picture whereby they think they should take the lead in education reform. When they “reformed” real estate with subprime mortgages, and “reformed” Wall St. with derivatives it led us to where? And there goals were preserving the democracy or stuffing as much money in their pockets? Do we recall which one?
It is time we substituted “bilk” for “reform” and we will know exactly what is going on in education. Check out http://www.WhiteChalkCrime.com and http://www.EndTeacherAbuse.org if you REALLY want to know what is going on. The alternative is to watch education implode as did real estate; the same type of agenda is in place. However, when it implodes it implodes our democracy as they are connected at the hip. And then who will pick up the pieces? Do we want the greedy creating a civil society in their image? Better yet, would the greedy even entertain the need for a civil society when money and power are their chosen tools for navigating in this world? Money and power substitute for a civil democracy, the former purpose of an educated populace.
If all of this sounds way too incredible, just think Bernie Madoff and his sinister Ponzi scheme. All it takes is charm, connections, and greed and one can fool a lot of people. We have a bunch of mini Bernie Madoff’s at the helms of schools all over this nation with a press blaming teachers, unions, and parents rather than blaming these thieves in place to bilk all of us of the foundation of our democracy. (This is the same press that didn’t notice the subprime scam.)
This brilliant strategy of pitting parents against teachers and their unions is at the core of this Ponzi-like success for it is true that unions are at the center of the “reform” that is really bilking, while it is not true that the unions represent or even care about dedicated teachers. And it is not true that the unions are on a different side than these mini Bernie Madoffs. As the unions and administrations play good cop, bad cop while reforming, no bilking, our schools with the media’s blessings, the public is left clueless.
Become educated or expect an end to public education as we know it. Yes, the unions deserve our contempt, but not unless their bed partners – the administrators and school boards – are held in contempt equally. Learn about White Chalk Crime. It makes Bernie Madoff’s antics seem like nothing. There is organized crime in education that Diane Ravitch has yet to bring to the surface. It keeps Diane Ravitch from television, stuck at the right fork of the road where if she could venture down it, her dedication and brilliance could solve these problems.
Instead we all speak in circles while our schools are being “reformed/bilked.” Time to focus on White Chalk Crime as only then will any of this change.
Posted by: teacherkh | December 28, 2010 11:06 PM | Report abuse
My friend Karen at her best…Bite down and go to the bone… and keep on breathing!
TopSchool
December 29th, 2010
6:02 pm
Maureen …Do you think many in the media are part of the problem?
TopSchool
December 29th, 2010
6:04 pm
The Death and Life of the Great American School System
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/diane-ravitch/ravitch-takes-stock-of-2010.html
catlady
December 29th, 2010
6:07 pm
Scienceteacher: And look at their benefits, plus great deal for retirement pension! How about a research report on that?
TopSchool
December 29th, 2010
6:11 pm
“There is organized crime in education that MAUREEN DOWNEY has yet to bring to the surface. It keeps MAUREEN from television, stuck at the right fork of the road where if she could venture down it, her dedication and brilliance could solve these problems.”
AND COULD WE PLACE ANY EDUCATION REPORTER’S NAME IN THIS QUOTE…
makes me wonder about the politics of all of these issues.
TopSchool
December 29th, 2010
6:15 pm
Karen Horwitz
Teacher … Author … Activist … Pioneer
Private School Guy
December 29th, 2010
6:17 pm
The root of this problem is that far too many administrators are doing a lousy job and have no clue as to who is a good teacher and who is a bad teacher. They also have limited power as bad teachers are just shuffled around and sent to schools where the administrators have no choice in the matter. Public schools need to put more administrator jobs on the line. There should be the same percentage of administrators let go as there are teachers fired.
TopSchool
December 29th, 2010
6:34 pm
@ Dekalbite December 29th, 2010 5:58 pm…
How do you ask?
Because they all have their fork in the BUCKHEAD PIG…
http://www.TopPublicSchoolCorruptionAtlanta.com
ScienceTeacher671
December 29th, 2010
6:37 pm
@Private School Guy, you assume that the basis of the problem really is incompetent teachers.
@catlady – there they are with that generous salary and more than generous benefits, yet they are trying to balance the budget by cutting our childrens’ education. Despicable, don’t you think?
ScienceTeacher671
December 29th, 2010
6:49 pm
OMG. The filter got my post! First one all week!
HS Math Teacher
December 29th, 2010
6:51 pm
I’ve read most all the posts on this topic (except a couple of juvenile remarks) , and I took note of several areas of concern. I don’t care how redundant my posts are…I just know what I know, and I’m convinced that if the problem with promoting kids without merit is dealt with seriously, most of the “areas of concern” posted here would be remedied. I’m not an overly complex person, and my mind doesn’t stay cluttered with things that don’t amount to a hill of beans. The social/committee promotion issue is paramount with me. I’ve brought this up in a teachers meeting back in the 90’s, and the principal we had at the time just rolled his eyes and said, “Look, we always hear that, and someone’s always pointing the finger down the hall.” Ends up that he’s been tossed about from school to school and ain’t with us any more. I think he’s now a night manager at Bi-Lo’s or selling hot dogs at the beach….not really sure, and don’t care.
Having STATE MANDATED promotion policies with real teeth WILL bring about the following positive developments within 3 to 5 years (you may be able to think of additional ones that I overlooked):
1. Parents will be the first to take note (if you’ve bothered to read anything I’ve posted on here, I’ve never blamed parents). When they learn that raising hell and stomping feet won’t get their kid promoted, they’ll start doing the things they need to be doing.
2. Kids will take note, once they REALLY SEE IT HAPPENING. If they know that Summer School won’t be as easy to go through as a $2 car wash, and the only way to advance is to pass whatever course it is they failed, they will finally start applying themselves.
3. Unruly kids whose behavior has disrupted classes and caused their own failure will eventually shape up and straighten up.
4. Kids who are chronically absent, and forge notes from home will start coming to school when they know they won’t get a free pass.
5. Teachers will finally start getting some, or most of the respect that hasn’t been shown in the past…from the kids…and the parents. Both parties will realize it is the teacher who teaches the subject they must know & pass, and it is the teacher who will grade their papers. The TEACHER will become very important when they hold the keys to success.
6. The stress level that all teachers endure that come with doing the heavy lifting, i.e., trying to catch kids up, and bring them somewhat up to grade level will be mostly gone. Teachers’ jobs will eventually become a delight, and they will just flourish in a pleasant, productive teaching & learning climate. This will result in low teacher turnover, and absenteeism, saving the state’s schools millions of dollars a year.
7. Colleges, Technical Academies, Employers, etc., will start getting high quality high school graduates. Gone will be the days of students who are allowed to slip through the education system and can’t read on a 9th grade level, and cannot understand basic mathematics.
8. The dropout rate will dramatically go down, even if the rigor gets tougher! There will be pain & suffering for one or two years in the lower grade levels, with loads of kids who will fail; however, by the time they get in high school, they will be able to climb the ladder all by themselves. The reason the dropout rate is so high now is that kids have learned one set of rules of how to get promoted in grades 3 through 8, then they are hit with another set of rules in high school (you have to pass each course – PERIOD).
9. High school students in the near future will suffer less emotional distress when they know they are fully equipped to master subjects at grade level. High school students already go through a lot of stress just trying to find their way in their teen years. They will be happy, healthy, and productive.
10. The state will be able to stop spending millions of wasted taxpayer dollars on educational experts, workshops, and other ancillary programs that are for the most part useless.
11. The state’s overall education system will eventually not be so weighed down by the poorly performing schools in the inner city, and rural areas. It is in these geographic areas where social promotion takes place the most. Our state’s standing among other states will rise.
12. If there are bad teachers, and I know there are some out there, it will become clearly apparent in a system that rewards merit. Bad teachers can easily hide behind the veneers when kids just get shuffled along in a broken system. Bad teachers will stick out like a sore thumb in a system that really works.
Last Note: Our policymakers, legislators, and …. “others”… need to start drinking the Kool-Aid from the Theory Y school of management, instead of Theory X. You’re dealing with a lot of folks who know how to run their households, know how to fix their own cars, and fix what’s wrong in their own classrooms. The problem is in POLICY, and that can’t be remedied by teachers alone.
TopSchool
December 29th, 2010
6:58 pm
I know who has the power to make policy change…MAUREEN DOWNEY
Maureen has the power in her pen…
’cause all of us surely have used all our ink up!
I know I has…and I don’t know nothin according to Atlanta Public Schools.
TopSchool
December 29th, 2010
7:00 pm
From Buckhead to Bankhead Highway…The REAL ISSUES IN ATLANTA PUBLIC SCHOOLS
Maureen Downey
December 29th, 2010
7:01 pm
Science, You are a free agent now.
Maureen
Maureen Downey
December 29th, 2010
7:03 pm
@catlady, Yes, several are teaches and many more are either married to teachers or are the child of a teacher, including our new governor.
Maureen
TopSchool
December 29th, 2010
7:13 pm
I think they are all cousins…or relatives in some strange way.
I just hope we are all not fooling ourselves if we have HOPE that any of this will ever change.
I did meet with Ralph Long…nice man…
and we scheduled another meeting…
I still have HOPE something I gathered in my APS research will help someone… somewhere.
ScienceTeacher671
December 29th, 2010
7:16 pm
@Maureen, thanks!
@Maureen & catlady, are any of the legislators who are teachers or spouses of teachers actually on the education committee?
@HS Math Teacher, I agree with you about the solution to the problem, and think the cut scores on the CRCT should be raised as well. Of course, the parents of the children who fail will all claim it’s because their children “don’t test well.”
HS Math Teacher
December 29th, 2010
7:23 pm
Science: Yep…we’ve heard that before.
Also a Career Switcher
December 29th, 2010
7:34 pm
@Career Switcher- I nominate you to meet with the DOE and Rep. Lindsey. Each and every idea you mentioned is right on the money (and most of them don’t cost a thing). I’m a third year career switcher and I am shocked at the inefficiencies present in education. What is even more frustrating is how we are micro-managed and constantly given more data to track, meetings to attend, reports to make (most of which are never read).
ScienceTeacher671
December 29th, 2010
7:39 pm
I have a hard time believing that a student would get stressed enough to fail a test which measures such sub-minimal competencies as the CRCT. However, if students actually had to pass the CRCT for promotion, without exception, the pressure would eventually be on the students, rather than on the teachers or the school system.
The biggest problems I can see are that some special education students will never pass the CRCT, EOCT or GHSGT, and at some schools that will exceed the percentage allowed to take alternative assessments. Also, it might be necessary to set aside alternative schools for students who are “too old” for elementary or middle school and have not yet attained the skills for the next level.
ScienceTeacher671
December 29th, 2010
7:42 pm
Have Jeff Hubbard or Tim Callahan had anything to say about this yet? Maureen, have you asked either of them to comment?
HS Math Teacher
December 29th, 2010
8:01 pm
Science Teacher: I think you’re right. At some point you’ve got to call a spade a spade. We’ve been told to mainstream all these kids, and we all know what happens. Educational leaders at the top call it “raising the bar”…fostering “high expectations”, etc. The problem is that when the rubber meets the road, reality bites. These poor kids (sp. ed.) top out, and undue stress is put on them. I think mainstreaming these kids may be well & fine up to a point; however, we need to separate them when the warning lights come on. Alternative learning sites, career academies…whatever…we need to do WHAT WORKS. I’m sick of trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole. Co-Teaching only helps a little, and occasionally the special ed. teacher will go too far helping the kids take their tests, and I can tell when I grade them (erasures galore with correct answers in place).
Instead of following a Japanese model, where all kids look like no. 2 pencils coming out of a pencil factory, we need to follow Germany’s model. We need to do some segregating and separating at some point before 9th grade, and help the kids REALLY LEARN SOMETHING BENEFICIAL that will help them later in life.
TopPublicSchool
December 29th, 2010
8:03 pm
Career Switcher December 29th, 2010 1:15 pm
These decisions and mandates do not come from teachers, and teachers are often powerless to do much about them. Your comments and suggestions should be addressed to administration and central office. The day that I look my principal in the eye and state that I am giving a 0 and it will stand and that I am demanding a disruptive student be dealt with will be the first day of the end of my career. You see, that is the dirty little secret in education…you do not go against the status quo, and if you do, you will no longer be employable. I have seen those who speak up or disagree with administration quickly branded trouble makers and be given teaching assignments outside their area or even several subjects to teach at once. I have seen them be given higher loads of unruly students in their classes, and bad, undeserved evaluations.
And YET WE EXPECT THESE ADMINISTRATORS TO EVALUATE US FAIRLY…The problems are systemic and NATION WIDE…
Check out http://www.WhiteChalkCrime.com and http://www.EndTeacherAbuse.org if you REALLY want to know what is going on. The alternative is to watch education implode as did real estate; the same type of agenda is in place.
This recipe is nothing new… “Your comments and suggestions should be addressed to administration and central office”
THE CENTRAL OFFICE AND THE ADMINISTRATION IS WOVEN INTO ALL OF THIS …POLITICALLY…
You have a good base of knowledge…now ASK THOSE OF US THAT HAVE CHALLENGED IT ALL THE WAY TO FEDERAL COURT…and we will fill in the BLANKS for you.
Hide and Watch…and if you want to collect your “paycheck” you will need to continue to sell your soul and keep silent about what you know. THIS IS PUBLIC EDUCATION AT ITS BEST.
http://www.TopPublicSchoolCorruptionAtlanta.com
The media will carefully pick and choose what they will print. Maureen still needs to collect her paycheck and pay her bills, too.
Wandless
December 29th, 2010
8:09 pm
One needs to be really careful when considering holding teachers responsible for whether students are learning effectively. There are so many variables that come into play here, including but not limited to; socio-economic status, motivation, and aptitude. The issue of aptitude is a hot topic that no one seems to want to address, due to potential racial and social overtones. The state of Georgia gives a Cognitive Abilities Test (cogAT) to students in certain grades. This test measures a student’s innate ability to reason; verbally, quantitatively, and nonverbally. The test can also be used to predict a student’s future academic success. In Georgia, it is used along with the ITBS, to flag students for “gifted” programs. The fact that the test is given, its purpose should not just be used to assess only in this limited fashion. In many low performing schools, the test results from the cogAT scores reflect the results on other norm referenced, as well as standardized test (ITBS). I suggest that we use these scores from the cogAT test in combination with whatever comparative test will be used to judge teachers. When the comparisons are done and, then look for disparities in the student’s innate potential to learn and their performance on the chosen test to judge for teacher performance. Then analyze the data, let’s look to see if both of these test scores match up. For example, if a student’s total cognitive score is the 30th percentile, compared to others in the norm referenced group, then one would expect that a score of 30th percentile for this particular student is reasonable. This seems to be a reasonably fair way, to put all teachers on a leveled playing field. This could potentially eliminate those teachers who work in Title1, and other type schools, from being at a disadvantage regarding test scores, and ultimately their teacher effectiveness. If we are going to judge teacher effectively, let’s use all available data to do so, including a student’s innate ability to learn.
TopPublicSchool
December 29th, 2010
8:38 pm
WISH I COULD FIND THE education bubble to JUMP back IN AGAIN.
oNCE YOU’VE TAKEN A bite of the REAL Public education APPLE …
you can’t re-enter the “secret garden” again.
Georgia Teacher
December 29th, 2010
8:40 pm
I have taught high school science in Cobb for 25 years. I have always gotten stellar evaluations and have genuinely loved my profession. The bottom line is that it’s getting less and less about the kids and more and more about bureaucracy. It’s tragically ironic and sad. My great aunt was a principal, my mom a teacher, and now my daughter has been considering the profession. Sadly, my advice to her is not to do it.
ScienceTeacher671
December 29th, 2010
8:44 pm
@HS Math Teacher, in the past couple of years I’ve had coteaching classes, and there have been students in those classes who had IQs in the 60s all the way up to students who could have been in the honors classes but either didn’t want to expend the effort or couldn’t fit those classes into their schedules. ALL of the students were “expected” to master the standards and pass the EOCT, but you know that for a student with an IQ in the 60s who is reading and doing math on a 1st or 2nd grade level it “just ain’t gonna happen”, and it’s really cruel to put the poor student in a class that is so far over their head, with expectations they clearly cannot reach.
To the credit of the poor students who were so out of their leagues, they were not rude, disrespectful, or disruptive, but they were totally lost. I don’t know who Rep. Lindsey and Rep. Morgan would blame for the fact that these students did not pass the EOCT, me or the SpEd teacher in the room, but the tragedy is that the students were expected to succeed in a college prep class, instead of given a class appropriate to their needs.
catlady
December 29th, 2010
8:47 pm
Ms. Downey please list the legislators who have been in the K-12 classrooms and when they taught. (I am the daughter, granddaughter, and mother of a teacher in addition to teaching for almost 4 decades myself) MY experience would be the most relevant, as a representative of the citizens of this state.
Dr. Craig Spinks /Augusta
December 29th, 2010
8:55 pm
To find an example of the L.A. teacher’s report card, Google “RAND Corporation” and “teacher report cards.” The 7th item on the resultant Google list relates to a report card for an L.A. teacher, Patricia Malone Schwarz.
oldtimer
December 29th, 2010
9:27 pm
@ what’s really going on; That is why school choice should be an option.
HS Public Teacher
December 29th, 2010
9:28 pm
@What’s Really Going On…..
Honestly, if this teacher report card thing does pass, I won’t care what is on it, because I will be moving that very day out-of-state. It will be the last straw for me in this pitiful republican-run State of Georgia that is determined to totally ruin education. There has not been a single step in a positive direction regarding education in the last 8+ years. Every single thing done has brought Georgia backwards and our children to their knees. Hear the laughing? That is the rest of the Country laughing at Georgia!
Let me clearly state MY teaching abilities. Last year, I taught biology. All 100% of my students passed the End-of-Course test. The average of all of my students on that test was 91. The state average was something like 71. I had the highest average of all teachers in my school and my school system. And that includes the AP biology teacher and another teacher with over 30 years of experience in my school.
What am I personally afraid of? NOTHING!
What am I professionally afraid of? The continued degredation of the teaching profession in Georgia.
What am I most afraid of? The future of children forced to grow up in this bass-ackwards State!
Toto: speakin' the truth to power
December 29th, 2010
9:29 pm
I am not a public school teacher, but here is my grade for Rep. Lindsey’s response: F
All Representatives swear an Oath of Office to uphold the Georgia Constitution, which incorporates the amendments to the Federal Constitution. The State of Georgia Constitution upholds both the First and Fourteenth amendments. Separately, it added in a compulsory ATTENDANCE law in 1916. The Representative’s job is to consider the Constitutionality of whatever law is proposed or voted on. JUST WHAT IS THE CONSTITUTIONAL BASIS FOR THIS NEW LAW YOU PROPOSE TO BURDEN THE CITIZEN-TEACHERS WITH? And while you are at it, what is the Constitutional basis for the ADDED-IN Compulsory Attendance Law? The public schools are a mess because they are built on Unconstitutional SAND! Please read the following:
“Parental Interests and Objections to Compulsory Attendance Laws
The deference given by the Court to parental guidance of their children’s lives implies that parental interests are extensive. The character and extent of parental interests can be examined from the standpoint of the claims parents typically raise against the state compulsory attendance laws. Parents often allege that compulsory attendance laws violate the Free Exercise of Religion Clause and the Fourteenth Amendment Due Process Clause; parents also allege the statutes are unenforceable because they are unconstitutionally vague and they violate the due process requirements that a neutral and detached magistrate make the decision when a person comes to the government for a decision.” p.464
Please refer to pp. 464-472 for a detailed discussion of this topic in GEORGIA STATE UNIVERSITY LAW REVIEW
http://digitalarchive.gsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2933&context=colpub_review
The REAL solution is to REPEAL THE COMPULSORY ATTENDANCE LAWS!
This is the only way to cut off funding CORRUPTION and ward off BANKRUPTCY if it isn’t already too late.
HS Public Teacher
December 29th, 2010
9:34 pm
Hey You Republicans….
Ever considered the co$t to the tax payers for giving teachers “report cards”???? Let’s see, the repulicans will need:
1. A ‘teacher report card’ czar in the department of education.
2. This new czar will need a secretary and a staff of about 8.
3. This new czar will need to travel the State a lot, so let’s give him a State automobile and expense account.
4. The staff of about 8 will need consultants to decide how to create this report card. You know…. what will be on it, how they will measure them, etc.
5. The staff of about 8 will need their own IT staff and hardware/software to calculate and store this data on every teacher.
Gee! I wonder what the total cost per year will be for this little card?