Legislature can’t ignore the HOPE crisis any longer

While changes need to be made, the Legislature needs to step in and put a stop to the obscene bonuses the Lottery Commission head and employees get each year also. They need to make sure that the HOPE is available for ALL Georgia students and not just the kids of the rich and famous also.

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The idea of NO second chance only hurt poor and low income students, those who party hard; but have deep pocket parents will get a second chance. The only thing is they got their first chance for free; i.e NOT at the expense of the deep pocket parents.

As a christian, I believe in redemption.

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It doesn’t matter if we change the grade scale; teachers and principals will find away around it for their students and school. No one likes to have their community or school look like failures; so they inflate grades.

How else could we have so many students with highschool diplomas, who can barely read and perform basic math operations?

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[...] and more »Apple iPod touch 8 GB (4th Generation) NEWEST MODEL Via Legislature can’t ignore the HOPE crisis any longer – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog… [...]

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If we raise the GPA, grade inflation will follow. Has any study been done on GPA pre and post Hope? My guess is that the average GPA went up.

We should include the SAT to off set the grade inflation.

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There is a simple way to fix it. Make the scholarship award come at the END of each semester. Therefore if the kids get in and mess up the first semester, then they get no money and the HOPE is not out that money. If a kids does well, then they get their money and it can go to the next semester and so on. They get their final award when they graduate. This would end those kids who really are not into going to college getting the award, then flunking out and that money is never seen again. OR Make students who do not make the grade pay the money back, turn it into a low interest school loan. Then kids have a true incentive to do well and continue to do well.

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@Sid we can’t try to run government like a business. It is not. Government should not be trying to earn a profit. We can’t be looking at the ROI or other business factors in these decisions. We must be looking at what is the best for all Georgians, and all Georgians aren’t necessarily adept at every potential major, but all can be fully involved citizens and taxpayers if given the opportunity.

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Reality hurts when it hits the politicians between the eyes. As a retired college financial aid director who was involved in the original writing of the HOPE regulations and had to manage the changes from year to year I can attest to the fact that all who administer the program have known for years funding could never keep up with the demands for HOPE. Having observed the HOPE hearings 5-6 years ago it was clear the reality of outgo versus income was not matched by the political will to address needed changes. Now, the water has risen beyond flood stage and those under the gold dome are stunned to realize their choice of oars is minimal.

Rather than adding more eligibility criteria or changing what has been a long-standing standard for receiving HOPE would it not be easier to simply spend what the lottery provides from year-to-year? The Governor’s Office of Planning and Budget, the Georgia Student Finance Commision and Lottery officials are very capable of projecting lottery income and HOE demand from year to year. Colleges and universities across the state are also very good at projecting their credit hour production from year to year. If the prior year’s Lottery income projection for HOPE (A) is compared to the coming year’s credit hour production for expected HOPE recipients (B) a simple act of dividing A by B would reveal the amount of HOPE available per credit hour for HOPE recipients.

Yes, this would result in fewer HOPE dollars per student but that is going to be the case no matter which option is used. It is understandable and would allow for financial aid awards to be prepared for students in time to pay summer tuition bills. It would also give the politicians the ability to say “Hey, we’re only spending what is available so don’t blame us.” There are many details which would have to be worked out but those in the state who manage this program are more than able to handle this. HOPE Scholarships have become a tremendous entitlement program for many of the recipients and at least knowing everyone is being reduced in a similar fashion would deny any group the perceived right to holler “Ouch” louder than any other group.

One issue which has not been addressed in the media is the timing of these changes. HOPE regulations per state law are changed for the Summer semester. Some of those classes begin in May. Even if the General Assembly by some miracle finishes its work by late March it is unlikely any statutory changes made in the HOPE Program can be studied, regulations written and college computer systems updated to award HOPE correctly for the Summer. High school students who are trying to make an enrollment decision without knowing how much their HOPE Scholarship will be can easily be drawn to out-of-state to colleges which can provide complete scholarship information. Depending on the complexity of the changes it could be late summer before computer systems can be updated. It is easy to say “well, just get out your pencil and paper and determine which student is eligible and which is not” but when you attempt to do that for more than 200,000 HOPE recipients it is impossible to do it correctly without computer support.

The HOPE Scholarship has literally changed the lives of hundreds of thousands of our state college stgudents. It is incumbent upon the General Assembly to finally manage the budgetary concerns while at the same time continuing to provide funding in a timely fashion to insure the higher education enrollment for our state citizens.

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Why is there no mention from officials about making HOPE a reimbursement/loan program, dependent on the first 30 hours gpa? It largely eliminates the grade inflation at the high school level (where teachers are under much greater pressure to inflate grades than at the college level) and it cuts out the free ride for those who waste a year of free college on partying.

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@Burroughston

You might want to check your statement for accuracy. Your information is not correct.

The bottomline is that keeping payouts high encourages people to play the lottery more. More people playing the lottery = more sales. More sales = more money for education. There is a reason the GA lottery continues to wildly popular. In fact, they have posted 12 consecutive years of increased revenue. Do some research on how other states have fared the past two years.

The Lottery Corp is a PRIVATE business. The state should have no say in how much people are paid, bonuses, etc. Lest we forget that the job of the Lottery is not to supplement the State budget, but to provide games and winnings to those who play.

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One cost saving measure is to not allow HOPE for students who are PELL grant eligible. Students who get HOPE and qualify for PELL make money on the deal. I teach at a school where students make close to $1000 a semester. HOPE is used first. The rest is paid for by Pell and Pell money not used is sent to students.

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this is the reason I do not like Nathan NO Deal… this need to go back to a cap of income and his comment of keeping the smart kids in ga was just absurd!

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@History teacher Has it always been that way? I earned HOPE (although I did use it at a private university) but my PELL was significantly reduced – specifically by $3,000. I think after all my expenses were paid, loans included, I may have received a check for about $500 a semester back from the school.

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[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by ODE GAE NEA. ODE GAE NEA said: RT @AJCGetSchooled: Legislature can’t ignore the HOPE crisis any longer http://bit.ly/eOwGvc [...]

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@catlady I don’t know about you, but in both my undergraduate and graduate experiences, I encountered very few multiple choice tests. Is there some other way of assessing students’ readiness for college-level work that we could implement if we are going to tie some sort of assessment to HOPE eligibility? Frankly, I am very concerned about using SAT and ACT, but I certainly don’t want to see the state of Georgia try to establish its own test for this.

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Universal Pre-K is nothing more than babysitting, and doing the job that should be done at home. It’s another entitlement program. Those babies are too young to be in school all day anyway. Pour the money where it belongs–K-12 and college.

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hmmmm…I guess the right to vote is important(now)?! Too late!

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@Catlady – now that is something I like. I still think it needs to be coupled with changing the grading scale state wide. Between the time I graduated in 1997 and my sister’s graduation in 2000, Gwinnett County changed its grading scale to not put their students at a “disadvantage” with other students in the state. I had a student last semester who was a transfer from North Carolina and in the 3 parent conferences I had with her mother, she was surprised that we allow an A at 90 and a B at 80. I believe she said you had to have a 94 for an A and 85 for a B. Seems fair to me.

@schlmarm – I have a good friend who teaches kindergarten in DeKalb. I hear her tell about the differences of students who come in from the state Pre-K program and those who never darkened a schoolhouse door until their first day of kindergarten. Something is going right in Pre-K, it’s not just babysitting.

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[...] and more »Apple iPod touch 8 GB (4th Generation) NEWEST MODEL Via Legislature can’t ignore the HOPE crisis any longer – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog… [...]

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@GNGS, I believe a student’s GPA is a much better predictor. I also believe since most teachers’ gradebooks are now available online, that will reduce grade inflation because parents can clearly see their students aren’t performing. SAT is an aptitude test, and frankly, we have way too many students taking it as it is now.

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d, I think the SAT and GPA coupled provide something like 40% of the predictive power of how a student will do their first year in college. Pretty high, putting them together. That is from national studies, and does not take into account the distortions in Ga high school gpas (putting that in a very gentle way). I view the SAT as an achievement test, as it measures what you have learned to do.

I am sure you are younger than I am, but I had a LOT of multiple choice tests as an undergrad. Actually, quite a few in my master’s programs. Not any I can remember in my PhD. I still posit that the skills involved in taking mc tests would be important to college AND high school success.

Motivation is super-important, but you’ve got to have the basic skills. We can’t count on a 3.0 indicating that, at least in Georgia.

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Spelled “throughout” incorrectly in my previous post.

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The Hope fund has been plundered by the Colleges & Universities themselves. The astromical rise in costs at these instutitions over the last decade is what has placed the Hope scholarship in financial stress.

The only long-term solution is to reduce the actual costs associated with post-secondary education and cut waste/beauracracy.

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Cut cost by offering more online courses and less classroom time then close no longer needed buildings. College campuses will eventually be a waste of money.

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There is a very simple explanation to this. If the parents make enough that the cost of yearly tuition + room and board = less than 10% of gross revenue, then they should be ineligible for Hope.

However, there should be a tax incentive for those people, maybe say that parents fully funding their kids’ tuition would not pay any income tax on an equal percentage of their income.

Education has become fool’s gold anyway. Poor people keep sending their kids to school with Hope as a red herring, the kids finish, often without graduating, and usually have a substantial amount of loan debt. I would think that the economy would be making more kids stay home and begin working at 18. Some folks just aren’t cut out for college. It is not a right.

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Hope could pay for 50% up front and reimburse the remainder upon successful completion of classes. Also, no payment for remediation classes. I’m tired of watching students party for a year using Hope money and then drop put when they lose the scholarship. The money should have to be paid back if they leave school without a degree.

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What are the several most powerful student-related predictors of graduation from institutions in the USG? Let the HOPE administrators employ these USG-generated predictors in granting scholarships.

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zinc, the lottery is a state-chartered MONOPOLY. It is protected by the government. As such, it functions under the auspices of the state.

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On the college level, I agree with not paying for private colleges, adding an SAT/ACT minimum score for eligibility, not funding remedial courses, and/or making HOPE into a reimbursement program for those who make the grades or low-interest loan program for those who don’t.

For Pre-K, I think a sliding-scale tuition should be charged. The program was originally designed as a catch-up program for underprivileged youngsters, not as free daycare for all.

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Start HOPE after the first semester — use the college GPA to qualify. Would eliminate dependence upon grade inflated K12 gpas… more than a third of students lose HOPE their freshman year — huge savings. Restrict HOPE Grants to 3.0 students pursuing an AA degree at technical colleges. HOPE should not be a job training program.

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I’m never sure exactly where you are coming from in your columns, Maureen. Even in this one. But your last paragraph repeated below really made a believer out of me. And as a retired school head having seen the pendulum swing over the years from a work and pride based mantra by our parents and young people, to the current “entitlement driven society” I salute you for putting it in print: “I counter that students need to learn that sometimes there are no second chances. Otherwise, students may be forced to learn another tough lesson: There are no free lunches or tuition anymore, either.”

As a PS I also would ask, “does this senior memory fail me when I recall that the way the state lottery was sold to the public as a way to gain more monies for education was to include a HOPE scholarship that included minimal 3.0 GPA and no SAT/ACT test scores (to gain the votes of the rural votes), and no financial need requirement (for the more affluent community votes)?”

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In college a 3.0 is very very good. Not every student is a straight A student. I know because I one of those students. Georgia Hope every year gives the executives a $300,000 bonus if not more. Why do they deserve that? They are paid a salary to do their job. Bonus money should not break the bank. Do you know how many schoolarships can be used with this $300,000 bonus? And thats just for 1 executive. Now get rid of the rest of the garbage funds that also come out of the Hope. Personally, I think that any parent who makes over 150,000 can pay for college on their own. Get rid of these high salary people. They dont need it. There is no reason they have to cut the funding, just the way they do business.

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jd – HOPE should not be a job training program? Tell that to the HVAC person who fixes your air when you are burning up, or the plumber who comes to your home when your under water, or the electrician who comes calling when your breakers keep blowing. Not all people need a AA but we do need the technical skills of trained professionals. Your way off base there. I do agree though that it should be college 3.0 and not the inflated 3.0 that the high schools hand out like candy. Most of these kids graduating now cant count change or read a book without a computer and a calculator.

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how about this: let people ourside of atlanta win the lottery sometimes and more people will play_ thus there will be more money for education…as it is now the only winning tickets are in atlanta….so i stopped playing! the more folks win the more they will play and the more revenue! go figure

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Also have a minimum SAT/ACT for those who buy Cash 3/ Cash 4 and all the other addictive mess that supports HOPE. That will definitely level the playing field.

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Although I cannot understand why the cost of higher education is so high (as opposed to other countries), I tend to agree with those who think that an education should be saved for and paid out of pocket. The last time I checked, everyone is entitled to the same employment access, wealthy and not so wealthy; and the process of saving money is the same amongst all wealth classes.

This society is so against government help and help from taxpayers, yet expect to have a free education. The Capitalism you want doesn’t work that way, you have to earn your keep.

Hope is a grand gesture, and I’m all for it (I’m a believer in true socialism) but in this country, since its inception, has chosen capitalism. Americans cannot have their cake and eat it too.

Reward those who work to pay for education through Hope. If a semester of education costs 6k, and the student has 3k and a credible GPA, Hope can match the savings to HELP pay for the education. The State could offer more options of work-study for students, and HOPE could cover the rest of the tuition.

or

Use lottery funds to help fund the better colleges and lower their tuition to affordable rates. That way
Institutions could quit nickle and diming the public, raising tuition every semester and make it more affordable.

Big business will not take responsibility, so society needs to sometime.

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More students will be taking out government loans if it isn’t awarded (and reimbursed) until the 30-hour mark. I believe that are more efficient ways of rectifying the situation without taking such an approach as the article suggests.

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Build a video lottery casino. At least 8 states already offer this option to lottery players. The head of the Georgia lottery system said a lottery casino could raise “hundreds of millions” of dollars similar to other states where they were built. The casino is simply taking today’s scratch off tickets you buy at Publix and let a person buy and play them electronicly via a video terminal. And it can be done legally without any vote by the public or the legislature. All the Georgia Lottery Board has to do is vote to allow it. No brainer.

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Keep Pre-K (from someone who is taking triple advantage of it at this time, so a personal bias!) and make all HOPE money available on a sliding scale based on SAT scores, period, end of story. The lottery is basically a tax on people who don’t pay taxes to begin with so absolutely no discussion of an “income” cap. Either you can be a college student or you can’t and a little debt never hurt anyone.

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“But it dulls the shine of the scholarship, which flourished on a simple and accessible concept: Graduate with a B average from high school and go to a public college or university for absolutely free.”
Ho, Ho, Ho! Sorry, Virginia; there’s no Santa Clause nor a free lunch. Time to grow up and face reality. The lottery was passed so the GAMEMAKERS could get rich off of Georgians and have a monopoly on the state casino. Why don’t THEY take a haircut? The gambling money is part of the problem of tuition inflation. Grades are inflated so more students can go to college and spend the ill gotten gains. Greedy universities see an opportunity and raise the rates. Many citizens opposed the lottery from the beginning, and it took “zig-zag” Zell with his casino funded campaign to railroad the lottery through.

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@another comment

I am in your income range, have three children in college, putting them through school out of pocket thanks to HOPE, and I couldn’t disagree more. We can aford it. Others need it more.

Grade inflation is a problem. However, delayed reimbursement may be educational damnation for the poorest.

I think some form of means testing is the best solution.

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In it’s essence the Hope Scholarship is an entitlement program. So then why are so many of the same people who vote GOP at every election standing inline for a Government handout? If you call yourself a Republican you should be ashamed for using this program. It was started for the less fortunate who would not otherwise be able to afford college not for Sandy Springs and Dunwoody residents to send their kids to college for free while they drive 80K cars and vacation in France. The simple fix here is to base eligibility on the 3.0 grade AND income of the family and number of students from that family. Simple solution to a simple problem but the morons that run Georgia will certainly screw the pooch on this just as they do everything else.

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HOPE and all the other democratic entitlement programs should be discontinued…Welfare, food stamps, school lunch, elderly heating assistance etc. The handouts to these democratic bums and losers needes to stop.

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I’ll disagree one more time, Maureen, about your insistence on ‘one chance.’ – While many kids wade into college either undisciplined (i.e., immature) or not trained in discipline well enough in high school, having the HOPE rug pulled out from under them once is apparently sufficient to wake up many. In other cases, there are disasters of one sort or another that would make it woefully inappropriate to pull the golden goose forever – my own case, long ago, in another state, no HOPE at stake: my mother died in my Junior year. Went from my typical 3.5-ish range to -um – something less. You REALLY want to tell me just to “suck it up, kid – you’re really going to let your mother dying get to you? What a pansy. Too bad, sucker.” I’d hope not.
On another front, re: Pre-K: While offering babysitting for so many is likely a good economic idea enabling some to work when otherwise they could not, if we faced up to it the research is excruciatingly clear (psuedo-evaluations of Georgia’s Pre-K notwithstanding) that ONLY when well trained teachers follow particular curricula does Pre-K help low-income children. And it does that very well. BUT – there is NO evidence that high school or Associate’s degree kids doing sitdownshutupandcounttoahundred under little or no developmental supervision make any difference whatsoever. It is also unlikely that the typically fully certified in elementary (not early childhood) teachers in the public schools – also trying to get 4-year-olds to behave as 2nd graders – make any difference in the long OR short run. Furthermore, there is NO evidence that Pre-K makes any long-term societal difference for middle- or upper-class kids. SO, until we as a state decide to implement REAL early childhood ed in the preschools focusing on low-income kids, we’re only providing fairly expensive babysitting service. That may well be a reasonable thing to do for the economy, but we shouldn’t delude ourselves into believing we’re making a long-term difference for the kids themselves.

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Just a quick note of thanks to Maureen for keeping us alert to key educational issues in Georgia, to the AJC for giving her blog and column increased visibility at the website (not long ago, you had to really look to find it), and to all contributors for their thoughtful comments. This is one of the few places I know of where teachers, parents, and other stakeholders can engage in a reasonable discussion of important challenges facing the effort to educate Georgia children and youth. I often share the column with my students at UGA and read it faithfully. I think that Maureen’s work is the jewel of the AJC and I hope is a column read by all policymakers and administrators involved in education in Georgia.

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Bring the program back to basics, just like it was originally introduced. It’s the gradual additions and enhancements to the program that are causing a good bit of the shortfall.

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Oh please keep dishing out the HOPE dollars. If parents have to spend their own money on their kid’s college, then they will not buy Johnny the new Lexus or BMW to take to school.

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KILL the Hope program.

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Inasmuch as some, if not much, of the HOPE revenue shortfall is a function of grade-inflation at the HS-level, why doesn’t the media provide GA high schools and public school systems motivation to embark upon “truth in grading?” Such motivation might be provided by disseminating regularly data, disaggregated by school and system, concerning the percentage of high school graduates who were awarded HOPE and the percentage of HOPE recipients who completed baccalaureate degree requirements within 6 years.

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Dr. Spinks, there are too many intervening variables to make your comparison useful for accountability, although it would be fun to look at. I would bet it would fall on SES lines.

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not sure why HOPE goes to English, history, literature, basket weaving, or the other majors that there are ample number of people entering into anyway. You want to cut down on the “rich” kids getting a free pass, cut down on the funding (or eliminate) all non-engineering, non-science majors. Rich kids do not want to work. They major in poly sci to avoid real work. Kids from lessor means, like me, take the difficult majors because we need to earn our own money.

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Maureen,

I agree with the sentiment that once a student loses their scholarship it is gone. These are college students and the sooner they learn that there are consequences for not performing the better off they will be.

I also want to expand on your comments on the whole “graduate with a B average from high school and go to a public college or university for absolutely free” intention. How about lets strip out the add-ons that have come along over the years and get the HOPE back to what it was intended for: college scholarship at public universities in Georgia. I am not saying pre-K is not a worthy program and should not be funded. I am not saying that there should not be some sort of scholarship for private colleges.

What I am saying is that this is what happens to good programs. In good times they are seen as a cash cow and saddled with additional expenses that eventually come back to harm the program for all.

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Do away with Hope!!

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@Peter, SOME of the better students likely stay in state, especially those from lower income families, but the best of the best taught by (e.g.) our common acquaintance still head for the Harvards, Yales and Rensselaers (etc.) when their families can afford it (or the kids get rides). It WOULD be nice to have some decent data on how effective HOPE has been to keep the best and brightest in-state AND remain for employment. I’m not aware of such.
Peter mentions grade inflation too, as have others, and others have mentioned sliding scales of some sort. @HigherHopes, a grade is not a grade is not a grade. A 3.0 (or a whatever) is not any more the same between the high SES vs. low SES high schools than it is between the selective vs. open enrollment USG colleges. Even in the same school, an A in a properly done AP English course requires FAR mor work than in the euphemistically labelled “college prep” courses. To make a blanket change in the required grade average simply forces (as noted by another poster) high-performing kids to take easier classes in high school – and hence learn less. AND be bored. The solution? No silver bullets, folks. A simplistic ill-thought out “solution” will very likely have “interesting” unintended consequences.

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@36 Years, SOME of the pre-k programs are no doubt superb. I apologize for my lack of clarity. My point was that if we’re going to get serious about it, let’s make ALL of those programs that good. You know as well as I do, assuming you’ve taught and/or know the research, that a barely made it out of high school kid watching a chaotic roomful of young ones is no match for a PROPERLY trained teacher with a decent curriculum. AND the sitdownshutupandcounttoahundred test prep purgatory so many kids suffer in pre-k as well as the early grades these days is NOT what’s helpful for school completion or to keep low-income kids out of jail 30 years from now (again, assuming you know the research).

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@ another comment
While I agree with your premise that $150k is not “rich” because of graduated taxation, your discriminatory rant against Southerners is undermined by your below average writing skills. You cannot string together a proper sentence. My 5th grade home schooler can write better than you! Your attitude epitomizes those Southerners refer to as CARPETBAGGERS. Please go back to blizzard country. We don’t need your kind dragging down our SAT verbal scores.

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The economic times of today are not the economic times when the HOPE program was developed. End of story as it was when it was written. Changes need to be made to allow the best possible outcomes for the best students or the programs dies for all. I have always been amazed at the reports indicating how many college students are enrolled in remedial classes because they have not acquired the knowledge to take even entry-level, basic college classes. This speaks to the grade point average of ‘B’ having little meaning anymore. How about granting the HOPE money only to those that have struggled to get to the point where they do not need the remedial classes?

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I don’t see why it can’t just be income based again. How many people from families earning 6 figures are really playing the lottery??? Where’s the “HOPE” in a trust find child using their college savings to buy a luxury vehicle because they know they’ll get HOPE scholarship?

Who is more likely to retain HOPE?? The poor kid whose livelihood depends on scholarships and financial aid or the well off kid who can always fall back on mommy and daddy?

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[...] Downey has a piece on the HOPE scholarship and how the General Assembly can no longer procrastinate on addressing the shrinking chest. A lot [...]

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Every entitlement program in this country is in crisis – from Social Security to Medicare to HOPE. The problem of course stems from the fact that all were set up basically as vote-buying thievery schemes disguised as “socially positive” safety net programs. Social Security was sold as a safety net for the “widows and orphans” (a line my delusional mother-in-law still spews forth as if channelling the ghost of that scumbag FDR. In fact it was just a way for FDR to buy the votes of the older generation, con the younger generation, and basically destroy the responsibility that children felt for the ongoing care and support of their parents. Meanwhile it also created a huge government employment scheme that perpetuates waste, fraud, and theft today.

Truly HOPE is no different. There were plenty of folks who wanted gambling in the state. Plenty of folks who never feel that there is enough money to throw down the rathole of government education. Plenty of folks who didn’t want to have to be responsible for planning for their kid’s college costs, and plenty of folks at colleges and universities who wanted a state subsidy for their waste that didn’t require direct theft from the citizens through the taxation mechanism.

So here we are. Every child feels entitled to a free college education. Every parent feels entitled to get the money for a free college education. Every college and university now plans on an easy $4000 or whatever that it doesn’t actually have to “earn.” A huge infrastructure now exists at gas stations, convenience stores, and the like to support the money transfer. Thousands are dependent on the program for their employment. The careers of many politicians are dependent on their continued support of the wealth transfer program.

And of course everyone has a solution that involves maximizing THEIR return with no regard for the inherently troubled nature of the program in general.

The fights over HOPE will be a wonderful case study in why america is so in debt, so morally bankrupt, and so headed over the cliff financially. It would be fun to watch except that the government has absolutely no problem in stealing whatever it wants to keep its supporters happy and rich. And unfortunately I am likely to be one of the ones taken from as always.

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To Teach = I like your idea! My son has been able to maintain hope and will likely have to decide in his senior year, whether he is going to drag out his college career so he can work and save up money so he can finish. I think this is a bad message to send to students who have already put the time and effort in.

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Realist at 11:23…

Amen. There are no truer posts on this blog.

Most posters are trying to figure out how to rig the system to their advantage.

Thanks for your wisdom.

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I would hope we all agree the goal of hope is to help students gain skills to create the best work force in Georgia. I do not think anyone can show me a correlation between the highest GPA verse the person becoming a successful worker and or student.

I would not change the standard. It seems to make more sense to take the money and split up by % for kids who qualify. This would keep the hope alive for more kids and any kid can get a part time job to make up the difference.

…… Over the last several decades many researchers have tested the relationship between college GPA and various measures of adult achievement. The most common criterion measures include job success in business, teaching, engineering, and medicine as measured by salary level and supervisory ratings. Other, less common measures include social activity, civic participation, cultural interests and general satisfaction.

Qualitative review of the published literature leads to confusion in stating the true effect of GPA as a predictor of later success. In some cases GPA is positively correlated with success on the job (Harrell, 1969, 1970, 1972; Harrell, Harrell, McIntyre, & Weinburg, 1974) while in other cases significant negative correlations are shown (Pfeffer, 1977; Jepson, 1951).…..

http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst;jsessionid=63038F5434953150A08AC43CC3B578D6.inst3_3b?docId=5000107908

• ……No, there is NOT a strong correlation between GPA and college success rates or graduation rates. Part of this has to do with grade inflation and the difference in grading expectations at different schools, and much of it has to do with the quality of education and actual preparation for college that you find at various schools……..

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101207221023AASNAh1

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So funny to see so many posts with people whining like babies, it’s pretty simple, HOPE has issues because there is more money going out than coming in, that’s it, no conspiracy, nobody stealing the money, it’s not being given to certain people and not to others, the Republicans aren’t stealing the money, it’s not being given to rich kids and not to poor kids, either you qualify with a 3.0 average or you don’t, that simple…

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30327 at 12:08

Wrong.

HOPE is a government sponsored program run by the state government. Play it or not all Georgians have skin in the game.

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“In my experiences, the upper class, high performing student is not interested in post secondary education in Georgia. No offense to anyone.”

The real truth:
“In my experience, the nouveau rich yankee losers (who can’t afford rent on the one-bedroom New Jersey flat so they come to Jawjah to buy up cheap real estate) are still trying to prove their significance in the world by living cheaply in the South so they can try to send their kids back to blizzard country to attend Northern schools that produce such luminaries as Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Barry Obama, John Kerry, Ted “buy me a drink” Kennedy, etc. etc.”

By the way, I grew up in “30327″. My family made a fortune selling their real estate to “upper clASSES like you. Thanks!

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Welp, so much for the “real truth.”

Epic fail, Toto.

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Georgians pay taxes to run the state government.
The state government spends time, money and manpower running the lottery.
Ergo…Georgians pay taxes to run the lottery.

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I think HOPE is making the difference for a lot of kids to get into college, if not finish it, and that is worth something in making people aware of their options in life.

Don’t pass the DREAM act however, if you don’t want to see those HOPE dollars stretched a lot more thinly. Right now the number of children of illegal immigrants in Georgia is quite small, but if the DREAM act passes and all kids have to do is graduate from a Georgia HS with a B average to quality, then there will be a population shift into Georgia to take advantage of HOPE.

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Oops. Typo- that’s “you” not “your”.

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I’m a snob based on what? My internet moniker? Continue making brash ASSumptions if you think it’ll make your (non) point. Toto the omniscient one, laugh of the day.

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@magpie
Please give us specifics. Just which “good state schools and universities” do you refer to? What are the statistics showing “how far behind Georgia is educationally”? Do you include private and home schools as well? Do you consider anyone who moves to Georgia to be stupid? Are you new to Georgia?

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Great ideas True Grits!

Find more interesting ways to suck the money out of the idiots’ pockets that play the lottery; trick them into thinking their odds are better at becoming a millionaire for buying a stupid pice of paper instead of actually working for it.

All so you don’t have to pay for your own childs education.

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@ 30327
I totally agree with you on the lottery bonuses. Do a little more research and you will find that some state lotteries are run by non-US entities. U.S. citizens in general are suckers, not just Georgians.

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I meant to say that it covers all of tuition and SOME fees. And that $500 extra is going to the college… it doesn’t even take into account the 500 more that goes into books.

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Dorothy! Put on those SILVER dancing shoes and tin foil hat! Buy silver and fund your kid’s education…
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/jp-morgan-admits-defeat-cuts-silver-short-position-proves-millions-conspiracy-theorists-abso

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Shannon,

I am impressed with your erudite comments. Have you read the U.S. or state Constitutions? The “educational experts” are voted on and funded by We the People. Socialist money grubbers like yourself don’t deserve to live in this country.

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and i dont apologizzz for pour grammer…get the point

There is a message in here …yous just gotsta figure it out.

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Tar-Baby ain’t sayin’ nuthin’, en Brer Fox he lay low.

“`How duz yo’ sym’tums seem ter segashuate?’ sez Brer Rabbit, sezee.

“Brer Fox, he wink his eye slow, en lay low, en de Tar-Baby, she ain’t sayin’ nuthin’.

“‘How you come on, den? Is you deaf?’ sez Brer Rabbit, sezee. ‘Kaze if you is, I kin holler louder,’ sezee.

“Tar-Baby stay still, en Brer Fox, he lay low.

“‘You er stuck up, dat’s w’at you is,’ says Brer Rabbit, sezee, ‘en I;m gwine ter kyore you, dat’s w’at I’m a gwine ter do,’ sezee.

“Brer Fox, he sorter chuckle in his stummick, he did, but Tar-Baby ain’t sayin’ nothin’.

“‘I’m gwine ter larn you how ter talk ter ’spectubble folks ef hit’s de las’ ack,’ sez Brer Rabbit, sezee. ‘Ef you don’t take off dat hat en tell me howdy, I’m gwine ter bus’ you wide open,’ sezee.

“Tar-Baby stay still, en Brer Fox, he lay low.

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@toto; I will always be a proud Yankee who graduated 5th in my Engineering Program from the #1 Program in the Country and was recruited by an Atlanta Company over Tech graduates. Sorry, they didn’t hire Tech graduates. My SAT Verbal and Math scores were way above the Georgia average, so were my GMAT and LSAT ones that I have taken. I have one child that has scored in the 99% on the MATH IOWA tests. They both always score above 92-96 % on their IOWA tests. The CRT and EOST are irrelovent tests. I also scored the highest test score ever on the NY state History Regents Exam.

This is a blog, not a place looking for writing perfection. My point was HOPE is for Scholars, not students who need remediation. Colleges that do not have a graduation rate of 80% in 6 years should not be eligible. Another criteria should be a student loan default rate of over 7-8%. Schools like Emory, Mercer, Spellman, SCAD save the State money by Georgia students attending with a Hope Scholarship. However, this simple equation seams to be beyond some of you.

What many of you are missing is many small business owners can manipulate their adjusted gross income down to below an income cap of $75k or $50K even low enough to get Pell Grants for college, with the help of a good CPA. It’s is fairly simple if you know graduate level Accounting, Finance, Tax classes, that the BMW, Mercedes are all company cars, so is the home office. Grandma and Grandpa made gifts to Westminster and Lovett for that tuition it corresponds to the gift limit.) So alot of rich kids would still get the hope even with a Cap on income, it would just hurt people who would for a corporation in an upper middle income job.

Yes, with Hope Scholarship it is affordable, but without it, other schools become contenders. Is what I am saying.

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Here again the government wants to throw more money at the problem enstead of solving the problem.

They know 40% of the first year hope students a failing because parents have put pressure on high school administrators to change their childs grades to it averages out to 3.0. The administrator forces the teacher to change the grades.

The higher education committee in the house of representatives should introduce a bill to with hold state funds from the high school equal to the amount of HOPE funds paid in for failed students the previous year.

You cut off the money to the school doing the grade changing and it will stop.

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I attended college in Alabama on a math scholarship with the understanding that for every 2years I taught in Alabama 1 year of scholarship would be forgiven.
I choose to not teach in AL but instead came to GA to teach
My Scholarship reverted to a student loan and I had to repay it in full. Seems to me the basic concept could be applied here. Loose HOPE and becomes a student loan and has to be repaid (maybe even give the 2nd chance)
That seems fair to me, after all education is not a right but a privilege to be earned.
Also it seems to me the only way a student who has to take remedial classes got into college is with inflated grades and should NOT receive HOPE funds for those classes. Thats my take on it.

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Maybe there is HOPE in the OAKEY WOODS area….See Gov. Perdue…….

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I’m sure there may be grade inflation happening at some high schools, but it is definitely not an issue at my daughter’s school. She’s a smart kid who takes honors and gifted classes and has about a 2.9 GPA. Her friend, who admits herself she is not as smart as my daughter, has a 3.8 GPA – the difference? She takes all college prep classess. Now, I could let my daughter take college prep classes so she would have a 3.8 GPA – but then, she wouldn’t be ready for the rigors of college and would likely do poorly her first year. So – all of you who think a “B” average makes somebody a scholar should maybe look a little closer. There is no reward in the GPA for taking harder classes. My friend’s daughter is taking 5 AP classes her senior year and acing all of them. Yes, she’ll get college credit for those – but it should also show up in her GPA. My daughter wants to go to college and get her degree in education and be a Special Education teacher. She may not be able to do that without the Hope. We make a good income and therefore will very likely qualify for little to no financial aid, but we are not wealthy. If she or we can get loans, then we’d absolutely be willing to pay for her school ourselves (I paid for my own education, Bachelor’s and Master’s), but it’s gotten hard for anybody with a decent job to get financial assistance. Yes, I know in some of your dream worlds, we should all have saved up for our kids’ college since the day they were born and pay cash – and believe me, I wish I would have. But, we didn’t. So it sounds to me like some of you are saying that since she’s a “C” student, my daughter should go to work at 18, and skip out on being a teacher because she’s not academically qualified. However, her goofy little friend with the 3.8 can go to college and maybe get an English degree (which I have, by the way – people with English degrees can actually add value to the economy), or maybe drop out after her freshman year. I totally agree that the Hope should be paid back if the student doesn’t earn a degree. I think there could be a requirement about them working in Georgia for a period of time after their graduation . . . I think that GPA ought to be weighted for course difficulty, and I have no problem with ACT or SAT being a factor (my daughter hasn’t taken either of these tests yet – she’s a junior in HS). I think the Hope ought to be reduced by grants and scholarships – nobody should be getting paid to go to college, at least not with Hope money. I’m fine with no Hope for private schools. I agree more controls should be in place to make sure the right amount of money is going to scholarships and not to administration of the program – the bonuses are ridiculous. How can you get a bonus if you’ve run your program out of money? Bottom line – would like to see it fixed and hope we can get that 2.9 up in time if it’s still around next year. She’ll have to do it with some hard work since I can’t just slip her teacher a $20….

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Hmmmm How about we pull the reins back on the schools themselves?? Anybody check out the campus of Kennesaw since the Hope scam started up?
They are now triple the size.
Triple the tution
Parking fees applied no matter if you even have a car
Student fees
Athletic fees
300% markup on text books.

Its pretty easy to see where hope money has gone. Its gone into the pockets of school administrators. If you want to make cuts, make them at the source of the problem, the colleges themselves.

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My son is in the graduating class of 2012. They have tortured them with this complete ridiculous NEW ciricculm by telling them it will help them with college. What college? Oh, they mean the rich kids? As usual, keep poverty perpetuation, and move on the kids who have parents with money. I don’t know why this is a discussion, simply reduce the payout and put the rest into HOPE. And do away with PreK, afterall, unless there parents are rich they aren’t going to go to college anyway, so who cares if a 4 year old can spell CAT.

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