Should HOPE pay only 75 percent of college tuition?
The lottery cannot keep up with the costs of HOPE and pre-k. Something has to give, but what?
I attended the General Assembly committee hearing this summer on revamping HOPE, which is running out of money despite what some posters here insist. With rising tuition and improved college attendance, the Georgia Lottery — which funds both HOPE and pre-k — cannot keep up with demand.
Many bad ideas were floated at the hearing. One was reducing the amount of HOPE to cover 75 or 80 percent of the tuition tab. My argument against that measure is that HOPE succeeded because it was so straightfoward — attain a B average in high school, maintain a B average in college and the taxpayers of Georgia will pay your full tuition at a public college.
Start diluting that brilliant concept — thank you Zell Miller for the simplicity of the idea — and HOPE gets murky.
I would prefer that we raise the bar on keeping HOPE, no more losing it and regaining it. We eliminate the smaller HOPE funds that go to students attending private colleges in Georgia. (I know it would hurt; I had a child at Emory for a while, but I think parents who send their kids to private college expect to live on rice and beans.)
We ought to get rid of all second chances and preserve the simplicity of the merit scholarship: To keep HOPE in college, keep your B average. Only 46.2 percent of students who had HOPE when they began University System colleges still retain it at the 30 credit-hour checkpoint; one year for most students. At 90 credit hours, or about three years, only 37.4 percent are still eligible.
I heard an interview with state Rep. Len Walker, R-Loganville, this week where he reiterated that HOPE may only be able to cover a portion of tuition in the future. I hope that proposal does not prevail. What do you think?
I think my 11-year-old twins will see a greatly reduced HOPE, and I better redouble my efforts to save for their college educations. You may see me waiting tables at IHOP on weekends. That’s how I got through college and grad school. And it’s where I developed my deep affection for silver dollar pancakes.
–By Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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167 comments Add your comment
Fire Bad Teachers
December 12th, 2010
10:40 pm
An earned reward is much better than a handout.
Lynn
December 12th, 2010
11:30 pm
The AJC did a story last year on the variance in grades around the state. A detailed comparison of average grades for courses compared to EOCT results showed by High School and course which schools were obviously inflating grades. Of course, a few schools had the opposite result. EOCT results were much better than the average grade. My children attend one of the latter schools. As a result many students who apply to GA Tech and UGA may not be admitted on the basis of their GPA. When in reality the rigor of the class produced a lower grade than that of a student at another school.
Adding an SAT/ACT component to the HOPE award is the only way to overcome this grade inflation.
Lee
December 13th, 2010
5:41 am
The beauty of a reimbursement program is that you do not have to worry about a student’s high school grades or SAT/ACT score. You let the college worry about that. If they can get into college and make satisfactory grades, they get reimbursed by HOPE.
Pretty simple.
Vann
December 13th, 2010
8:11 am
Unfortunately, the need for HOPE will not go away because there is no regulation on the price hikes for college tuition. Money is taken left and right from K-12 education but the university system does not see the same cuts. Only 20% of high school graduates go on graduate from college. If you looked at past college graduation rates, maybe they should have stipulations placed on them as well as K-12 schools. Their rates are pitiful and I don’t see them taking the same level pay cuts and program cuts as K-12. As a matter of fact, our entire national budget deficit would be helped if there were not so many grants or funding for special interest subjects at colleges and universities.
stopthemadness
December 13th, 2010
9:51 am
I teach more and more socially-promoted students who are less and less ready to cope with basic college expectations, much less critical thinking. A university education is a great privilege. It is not a right. A scholarship recognizes academic excellence, not GPAs padded with high-school “extra credit” con jobs and CRCT erasures. Georgia’s college freshmen overwhelmingly cannot or will not use the library, follow the syllabus, meet deadlines, do the homework, read the textbook, or speak to their betters (meaning their professors) respectfully. The shrieking, pants-on-the-ground, texting morons all flunk out their first semester. Spring begins peacefully with those students who have made the effort to apply themselves, to take responsibility for their own actions and inactions, and to crack the books for which their parents and the taxpayers are (over)paying.
It’s time for parents to demand accountability from 1) their local high school administrators and 2) their own children, who are no longer children when they enter my classroom. The same students who live in a hypersexual chemical haze claim “we’re just kids!” when I ask them to discuss current events, turn up tearful and pregnant by midterm, and flunk out by Christmas. Do I blame the parents? Oh, yes I do.
Compare the homeless student, the student on chemo, the student working the night shift to support her kid: they do the work, make excellent grades, and never complain or send inappropriately arrogant e-mails telling me how to do my job. Too many students have the attitude that they are “cusotmers” and that the faculty are their servants. When they run up against a grade that reflects their substandard performance, they pull out all the stops: harassing the professor, marching into the deopartment chair’s office, slandering the professor on the Internet, trying their luck with the dean, etc., until someone either caves in to make them go away or has the steel to tell the miscreant to suck it up.
I second the idea of making HOPE a tiered reimbursement. That will eliminate all the tourists and slackers, leaving more money for the truly deserving–those who are willing to act like adults and scholars.
I also know that remediation belongs in junior colleges, which the state of Georgia saw fit to eliminate by elevating these to “university” status. We have more than 30 institutions in the USG. Talk about wasteful duplication. What we need are more trade schools for the legions of future fashion designers who wash up in the universities. It’s perfectly OK to not be interested in higher learning–outside of the university.
Not all students are like this. I would like to devote my remaining time and energies to those students who truly take an interest in learning new things–even those subjects which some think are “useless for my career.” University is not trade school.
stopthemadness
December 13th, 2010
10:01 am
P.S. Requiring freshmen, especially first-semester freshmen, to carry 15 hours is insane. First-semester students should be prohibited from taking more than 12 hours, period. They sign up for seven or eight classes because that’s how many they had in high school. They refuse to drop classes in which they’re failing by midterm, insisting that they will somehow magically “try harder” (which they usually don’t), then fail or are forced to repeat those classes. Much of this stems from poor orientation and abysmal advisement. Freshman orientation should be used to teach basic study, time management, and coping skills. Instead, it’s more pork spent on funding multiple parties and “bonding” exercises. Don’t students know how to party already?
I’d love to know how much the USG spends on balloons, customized T-shirts, DJs, etc. These are just marketing tools to lure in more HOPE dollars.
susan
December 13th, 2010
10:43 am
I hear all this retoric about reducing HOPE for college students, but not one bit of thought to all those in the technical schools. Those students receive all of their education paid for, and many of them are there because of that. Don’t they still receive funds if they fail, drop out, and return to school at a later date even though they don’t have the gradepoint average? I have heard of stories in which administration practically “beg” students to return who have no business being there, but it’s a fat check for the salaries of those in administration and faculties. Most people are not aware of this. I have friends who are teachers in the vo-tech schools who say behavior in the classroom can be as bad as some in high schools, and students show up when they want.
jules
December 13th, 2010
3:51 pm
this lady really ticks me off. my daughter goes to private in ga because of the hope and her school scholarship, she is paying what students do for public universites. we were promised 4000 per year if she made a 3.0 or better and kept it in college. why should she suffer so kids in public school keep their scholarships, when she worked just as hard. thanks to the economic times we make under 45K per year. we need the hope to cover the next 3 years. we ear rice and beans even without a child in private school. i think they should phase out what they need to, but do not take away what the kids in highschool and college were promised. i dont expect my 14 year old will have hope, but the ones that have already worked so hard should not suffer for bad planning
Fed up
December 13th, 2010
9:18 pm
Since this state did not honor its commitment to National Board Teachers, how long did y’all think it would honor its commitment to HOPE with millions more money at stake?
Fed up
December 13th, 2010
9:28 pm
should read “With millions more at stake.”
Kathy
December 13th, 2010
11:24 pm
hs counselor wrote: Which brings us to the next discussion, which very few have discussed . . . . FULL HOPE grants for technical colleges (regardless of high school GPAs and the Pre-K program). I’m not suggesting completely cutting either of those, but they must be examined as well.”
I’m not sure if you caught those two “lottery funded” issues in my lengthy comment…BUT I FULLY agree with you. Too many do NOT fully understand the lobbying of private pre k agencies or the millions that are channeled right to Tech colleges…for students enrolled in a certificate program, and the $500 HOPE Grant bonus for GED recipients…MY daughter never got a bonus from the state for graduating, so why give it to GED recipients…here’s part of the law.
Kathy
December 13th, 2010
11:27 pm
§ 20-3-519.5. Eligibility requirements for a HOPE grant at a branch of the Technical College System of Georgia; limitation on hours of eligibility
(a) To be eligible for a HOPE grant, a student seeking a diploma or certificate at a branch of the Technical College System of Georgia or a unit of the University System of Georgia shall:
Read more at Lexis Nexis. Click on the TOC box to search more than the table of contents and click naturl language to read Georgia law.http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/gacode/default.asp
Kathy
December 14th, 2010
12:56 am
If you read this…it will SHOW you the $$$$. Now, add this to the millions for the Work Ready Initiative…and other than nail salons, what businesses has Georgia actuallyl attracted lately? If you want your voice heard, you might check out Ga. PTA, go to legislative committees and write everyong on the education committee in the Senate and House and TELL THEM too…please folks, start lobbying NOW for the upcoming 40- day session
OCGA 20-3-519.5
the rest of it you might want to check out….
b) There is no minimum number of hours of enrollment required for eligibility for a HOPE grant under this Code section.
(c) Subject to the provisions of subsection (e) of this Code section, an eligible student may receive HOPE grants for all course work required by the institution for programs of study leading to a certificate or diploma, including remedial or developmental studies.
(d)(1) Subject to the amounts appropriated by the General Assembly and provisions relating to the Lottery for Education Account in Code Section 50-27-13, a HOPE grant awarded under this Code section shall include tuition, approved mandatory fees, and a book allowance not to exceed $100.00 per quarter or $150.00 per semester, except as otherwise provided for in paragraph (2) of this subsection.
(2) Effective beginning with with the fall quarter or semester commencing after July 1, 2004, the amount of mandatory fees paid shall be equal to such amount or amounts that were paid on January 1, 2004, except as otherwise provided for in Code Section 50-27-13.
(e) No student may receive HOPE grants for more than 95 quarter hours or 63 semester hours of attempted coursework, except as provided for in subsection (f) of this Code section. No student may receive more than a cumulative total of 190 quarter hours or 127 semester hours of combined HOPE scholarships and grants, unless in accordance with Code Sections 20-3-519.2 and 20-3-519.3. For purposes of this subsection, attempted hours shall not include hours for courses taken and paid for by a HOPE grant while a student is participating in dual credit enrollment with both an eligible high school and a branch of the Technical College System of Georgia or a unit of the University System of Georgia. The Technical College System of Georgia or the University System of Georgia, as applicable, shall verify that the student is enrolled in an eligible high school and shall notify the Georgia Student Finance Commission of the student’s participation in dual credit enrollment
Kathy
December 14th, 2010
1:02 am
It may be that MORE students and parents be told about each school’s “dual enrollment” opportunity. Think about it…if a child is enrolled in a dual enrollment class, he/she will get the college credit, without dipping into the HOPE $$$$.
The school systems are NOT educating parents to know what is going on, and since laws always evolving…parents are confused….
WE need a master plan…a model of sort to navigate all of the educational options and opportunities…and there is a bunch….
Warrior Woman
December 14th, 2010
1:27 pm
@Maureen – Why do you think more students attending college is an improvement? As attendance rates have risen, so have required remedial classes. Some students are not going to be successful at college and pushing them to attend is NOT doing them any favors.
@Shannon – You can’t blame budget cuts to post-secondary education for the insane increases in college expenses. College expenses have been increasing far faster than the rate of inflation for much longer than post-secondary budgets have been being cut.
I think we should eliminate HOPE at private schools; eliminate HOPE for students that need remedial classes until those classes are completed satisfactorily; require a minimum score on ACT/SAT; and return the benefit for making an A in AP, Honors, or IB courses (This was eliminated in the revisions that took effect for students entering college after May 1, 2007, so that an A in an AP course gives no more credit for HOPE eligibility than an A in an on-level course.). I think it would also be a good idea to make students pay a portion of their expenses so that they have some “skin in the game.”
HOPE should NOT be need-based – there are numerous federal, state, and private programs that assist the economically disadvantaged. HOPE is intended to keep achieving kids in Georgia, and a need-based requirement does not support that goal.
However, I would support giving students 1 chance to regain HOPE if they lose it. Anyone can make a mistake or have a disastrous term for reasons that have nothing to do with the ability to succeed in college or the workforce.
Kathy
December 14th, 2010
2:32 pm
@ Warrior woman: HOPE scholarship is re evaluated at 60 hours if a student does not have a B average after 30 attempted hours, and re evaluated at 90 hours..Remedial classes are calculated into the GPA for all attempted hours.
However, the HOPE Grant has no minimum grade level to maintain.
Also, SATs are NO longer required at two year colleges,,,and keep in mind that a B student may go to a two year tech college. So, now should we REQUIRE somebody to pay and take a test, just to get a lottery funded college scholarship?
TryingHarder
December 14th, 2010
4:57 pm
Gerald’s rant (and thinking) is flawed in so many ways, it’s difficult to know where to begin. One good place is his broad-brush swipe at Georgia’s smaller universities. Certainly, all schools aren’t created equal, but it’s ludicrous to suggest that any Georgia university beyond the Big Three are “jokes.” These are institutions that largely created the current generation of Georgia leaders. I would much rather have my child taught by a professor at one of these schools than a graduate student, as is often the case, at the Big Three. Many of these professors care deeply about *teaching* and focus just as much time and effort on that as research; that’ s not the case at the larger research institutions.
Any type of close examination of individual programs will reveal that, in fact, there are many majors where a student would do *better* to attend one of these smaller schools than one of the Big Three. If you want to end up at Carnegie Hall, you’re better off starting at Columbus State’s Schwob School of Music than just about any other school in the state.
(And then, yes, you’ve got to practice, practice, practice.) It takes more than a strong football program and research-obsessed professors to produce quality graduates, and many of these regional universities have proven they’re up to the task.