Concerned Black Clergy: Stop unfair attacks on APS

Here is the video from the Concerned Black Clergy press conference Monday on why educators should not be criminally prosecuted in the CRCT cheating scandal. Among those criticized were the AJC for its aggressive reporting on the disparities in test scores and the governor for bringing in special prosecutors to determine who cheated:

99 comments Add your comment

Burroughston Broch

December 9th, 2010
12:53 am

@ ATL born

None of the comments made seem any more racist than the video.
Clergy should get no intellectual or moral free ride just because they are clergy.

Burroughston Broch

December 9th, 2010
12:56 am

@ Just Wondering

Cheating might not be illegal, but it is unethical and immoral.
Perjury is illegal and criminal.

Lee

December 9th, 2010
6:34 am

Maureen Downey

December 8th, 2010
5:39 pm
Folks, I removed the treatise on Dr. King’s faults. This is not a fiction writing class.
Maureen

Fiction? According to who? You? Maybe you should take a look at this.

Congressional Record,
October 3, 1983,
Vol. 129, No. 130, pages S 13452 through S 13461

Dr. Proud Black Man

December 9th, 2010
7:36 am

@ Lee

Today you are offering the Congressional Record as proof. Tomorrow you will be claiming that all politicians are crooked. You can’t have it both ways.

Dr NO

December 9th, 2010
8:09 am

ATL born

December 8th, 2010
11:54 pm

Cant handle the truth, eh?

chillywilly

December 9th, 2010
8:22 am

@Just Wondering – I have many friends here in the “Taj” & have tremendous respect for them. However, MANY of us believe that there are many “snakes in the grass” crawling all over this place. I really don’t know why APS hired Nader Sohrab. Do you? lol

APS Teacher

December 9th, 2010
8:45 am

Demonstrating once again the caliber of those individuals who defend APS…..The sleazy and the less-than-brilliant.

An American Patriot

December 9th, 2010
9:24 am

ATL born

December 8th, 2010
11:54 pm

You know sir, you bring up some good points; however, you have to remember “This country was under a forced order to integrate” and integrate we did. How is that working out?…..my opinion (for what it’s worth)…..not too well. When you try to cram something down the collective throats of a society, it never works out well, witness BHO’s Health Care Debacle. We, as a country may be officially integrated, but as a society we are still segregated……always have been, always will be. You remember that old chicken commercial years ago……”Parts is Parts” was the theme……well ATLborn, “Facts is Facts” and you can’t change them, no matter how hard you try. When someone (collectively) tears something apart that was once great and reduces it to rubbish, it has the effect sometimes of making people resentful of those that did it……I think that’s the case here and elsewhere. You sir can call me anything you wish, but that in itself does not make it a “Fact”.

Dr. Proud Black Man

December 9th, 2010
9:52 am

@ An American Patriot

“When someone (collectively) tears something apart that was once great and reduces it to rubbish, it has the effect sometimes of making people resentful of those that did it……I think that’s the case here and elsewhere.”

Are you syaing that segregation was good?

Dr. Proud Black Man

December 9th, 2010
9:52 am

@ATL born

December 9th, 2010
9:53 am

I sry you just cannot compare Dr. King to the persons in CBC. Dr. King was a modern day prophet, no one standing in that crowd even comes close. Some blogs I have read about protecting the teachers and the students. You know the ppl actually in the classroom is where everyones focus should be. We know where this seed of corruption came from and I don’t think is was because a teacher got a $70,000 bonus. Do I have to spell it out for you?

Dr. Proud Black Man

December 9th, 2010
9:54 am

@ ATL born

Don’t worry too much about these “internet klukkers.” The net is their last refuge and thats slowy disapearing.

Lee

December 9th, 2010
11:04 am

“Dr. King was a modern day prophet,…”

I refer you to Maureen’s post about MLK and fiction.

An American Patriot

December 9th, 2010
11:07 am

Dr. Proud Black Man

December 9th, 2010
9:52 am
@ An American Patriot

“When someone (collectively) tears something apart that was once great and reduces it to rubbish, it has the effect sometimes of making people resentful of those that did it……I think that’s the case here and elsewhere.”

Are you syaing that segregation was good?

No, I did not SAY that…..you’re trying to bait me…..what I was referring to was the “once great Atlanta Public School System”….it is what has been reduced to rubbish (I should correct myself here and only reference the southside Atlanta Schools). I cannot imagine anyone wanting to send their children to one of these. SAPS and NAPS is the way to go……jump on the bandwagon if you’re so proud of these southside Atlanta Schools :)

Choice Theory

December 9th, 2010
11:14 am

Why is it that so many people like to wrap up their comments into nice, neat bow-tied packages about race? Every “race” has members in it that refuse to work hard and earn their keep in society. I teach in an “urban” school and everyday I am faced with kids of all colors, of all walks of life, and of all situations (mostly poverty stricken) who think that the world is going to hand them their education and their paycheck. The sooner we can shrug off this “black” or “white” nonsensical bantor, the sooner we can address the real issues. Teachers cheating is a symptom of the education disease we are all suffering right now. It is wrong and “red, yellow, black, or white”, those teachers should be punished regardless. Street culture is its own worst enemy, it is what holds many members in that culture back. I am not the first to say it, so don’t shoot the messenger. Hard work and dedication is the only way to make it in this world.

Dr. Proud Black Man

December 9th, 2010
11:36 am

“Why is it that so many people like to wrap up their comments into nice, neat bow-tied packages about race?”

Because they are racist p.o.s. who are TOTALLY ignoring American history

Dr. Proud Black Man

December 9th, 2010
11:46 am

@ An American Patriot

“When someone (collectively) tears something apart that was once great and reduces it to rubbish, it has the effect sometimes of making people resentful of those that did it……I think that’s the case here and elsewhere.”

“Are you saying that segregation was good?”

“No, I did not SAY that…..you’re trying to bait me…..”

“This country was under a forced order to integrate” and integrate we did. How is that working out?…..my opinion (for what it’s worth)…..not too well.”

P.O.S. can’t even lie straight.

An American Patriot

December 9th, 2010
12:02 pm

Dr. Proud Black Man

December 9th, 2010
11:46 am
@ An American Patriot

“When someone (collectively) tears something apart that was once great and reduces it to rubbish, it has the effect sometimes of making people resentful of those that did it……I think that’s the case here and elsewhere.”

“Are you saying that segregation was good?”

“No, I did not SAY that…..you’re trying to bait me…..”

“This country was under a forced order to integrate” and integrate we did. How is that working out?…..my opinion (for what it’s worth)…..not too well.”

P.O.S. can’t even lie straight.

@DPBM – Let’s be civil here now……I did not say that “segregation” was good…..what I said was…..”Integration was not working out well”…..two different things entirely and the last time I checked, I am still entitled to my opinion. Are you man enough to issue me an apology for calling me a P.O.S.? and a liar? Keep it decent, OK.

Choice Theory

December 9th, 2010
12:02 pm

Dr. Proud Black Man,

Thank you for clearing that up for me. However, we all understand American History, yet we allow ourselves to remain enslaved by poverty and poor choices. At what point do we take some pride in ourselves and seek to change our situation? When do we stop blaming everyone else for the misfortunes our ancestors painfully endured and work at becoming responsible, contributing members of society? When do we break free of the cycle?

Dr. Proud Black Man

December 9th, 2010
12:28 pm

“At what point do we take some pride in ourselves and seek to change our situation?”

When we stop being in DENIAL about the effect that segregation had on Black people.

@ An American Patriot

“Are you man enough to issue me an apology for calling me a P.O.S.? and a liar?

Not in this lifetime.

Burroughston Broch

December 9th, 2010
3:00 pm

I looked at the Concerned Black Clergy’s website and learned the following.
To be a member:
1. You don’t have to be concerned.
2. You don’t have to be black.
3. You don’t have to be a member of the clergy.
4. You do have to send money.

Gives you a new vantage point on where their priorities lie.

An American Patriot

December 9th, 2010
5:30 pm

Dr. Proud Black Man

“Are you man enough to issue me an apology for calling me a P.O.S.? and a liar?

Not in this lifetime.

I didn’t think so :) BTW, have you gotten a job yet or are you still just hanging out?

Dr. Proud Black Man

December 9th, 2010
6:08 pm

“I didn’t think so BTW, have you gotten a job yet or are you still just hanging out?”

Still hanging out living off of unemployment and TANF for my 7 kids by 6 different women. Feel better? :)

Atlanta Native

December 9th, 2010
7:09 pm

White folks true colors comming through.

Dr. Proud Black Man

December 9th, 2010
8:45 pm

@ Atlanta Native

Don’t stereotype them like they do us my brother; tis only the repungnentcan flavored necks that we ALL have to worry about. Last I heard all three of them were on the Get Schooled blog harassing folks. ;)

Just Wondering

December 9th, 2010
10:34 pm

@BB – Amen. I was jsut stating the challenge of those who want to throw them all in jail. That just isn’t going to happen unless they changed the answer sheets. What will be interesting is how many principals, etc. signed off on these things knowing that people changed answer sheets. That’s the fraud part of the investigation the feds are looking at.

BTW I heard some principals at the “dirty dozen” schools have strategically retired recently.

chillywilly

December 10th, 2010
7:48 am

@Just Wondering – Yes, some of the “dirty dozen” principals retired recently. One of them is a real nice gentleman and is well liked by many people across APS. I feel really bad for him that he had to go out this way. When the investigation is concluded, I believe that we all will have a better understanding of the “get it done by any means necessary”, corruption, and coverup by the Beverly Hall administration. If I Board Members are worth the ham hocks in collard greens, they would call for an independent forensic audit of APS Human Resources, Technology, Finance, Instruction, and Facilities. I smell the smoke so I know the gun is close by.

An American Patriot

December 10th, 2010
8:40 am

You know, this controversy/scandal/etc., would make a great textbook used by colleges to teach prospective teachers how not to teach/run a school system. Some of you folks (chillywilly, Dr. Prophet John Trotter) seem to know a lot about the inner-workings of the APS and the personalities involved…..when the courts finally put this to rest and every body’s put where they belong, why don’t y’all write the book? I’ll buy the first one off the press :)

Dr NO

December 10th, 2010
8:50 am

“White folks true colors comming through.”

LOL…yep and that is exactly the kindve comment/thinking that will keep this APS mess from being dealt with in a positive manner. It matters not to me as I live NE of Atl. If people choose to sweep this and other issues under the rug then so be it as those of you in denial will see only more of your inner city children drop-out or graduate knowing not much of anything. If so then so be it.

Pastor J

December 10th, 2010
9:14 am

Listen… all of you. Not a single one of you were there at that press conference. None of you truly know the issue. I was there, and I know for a fact that every person there respresented all are educators, doctors Ph.Ds for those who don’t get it. And many have Masters degrees. These are public servants who fight for the liberty and justice for all. I’m sorry if you think it’s ok to arrest teachers who are trying to help children. I do not nor does this group support cheating. It is ethically wrong. But if we are going to arrest people and lock them away for cheating, let’s start under the Gold Dome, better yet let’s start with people you know yourself who’ve cheated… who knows it could be you. Racism is real, and it’s sad. But make no mistake it’s real. Listen if you’ve never mistreated an African American person, or if you are not racist or if you not the type of person this speaker is speaking about… then why are you so offended. The AJC is a media agency. Do you know, that while I was there witnessing this press conference, the media asked questions that were answered, but the cameras were turned off? No you don’t… and you don’t know the whole story. Ask youself, how would you feel if your children every school year were given 20-30 year old text books to learn from? How would you like it if your child took a test and made a bunch of erase marks on it as they struggle to process the correct answer, but then be accused of cheating? How would you like it, if you were the teacher and you gave the test, turned in the results and someone in the administration office changed the test answers because if their students failed they would be penalized with various actions to say for one- less funding for an already disadvantaged school. Not to mention… the HOPE scholarship no longer can be attained by persons it was initially created for, but later the qualification process changed whereby allowing those who are better equipped to pass a exam that does not define the intelligence of another may not be the best test taker. I know this is a lot… but not everything is black and white. There are some things in the world that are unjust and wrong. So before you just accused a group of people who voluntarily stay involved to support justice for everyone white or black… think about why they are doing it. Many of the comments listed above smell racist to me. The tone of your comments sounds hateful, uncaring and insensitive to the needs of others. Remember while you are pretending to share the Christmas s pirit of compassion this December… that this same spirit should be shown all year. Imagine what kind of world this would be if we didn’t hate each other so much. What if we all equally had the same opportunities to be a better people, city, nation? We would be a better human being that others could embrace and be in relationship with without conflict. But it will never happen as long as ignorant people like some of you who were not there have something to say about it.

Get a life… but first get a heart.

An American Patriot

December 10th, 2010
9:30 am

Pastor J

December 10th, 2010
9:14 am
As a pastor, Pastor J, you seem to have a lot of animosity and hate in your heart. You using the term “Racist” is like the “Pot calling the kettle black” and not very christian like. I have no doubt that the AJC didn’t do all the reporting they should have…..it’s their style; however, you standing on the side of the CBC is laughable……they’re not the most believable group in town……If I were you, I would distance myself from them……you’ll be doing yourself a favor. BTW, if you know so much about the details of the cheating, please let this be known to Mr. Bowers, Mr. Wilson and to your D. A., Mr. Howard.

gogither

December 10th, 2010
10:30 am

@ Pastor J, Having an advanced degree does not disqualify you from being an idiot, despot, bigot or anything worthless. It just makes you have a title ie dr. idiot, dr, despot, dr. bigot, dr worthless etc.

Angry Parents

December 10th, 2010
1:45 pm

Yes the CBC dont have a clue about what Beverly Hall and her cronies have done to the children in APS. They all committed crimes against our children and need to be held accountable for their actions.

Pastor J

December 10th, 2010
2:44 pm

An American Patriot, gogither and Angry Parents –

Again you are missing it. Just admit it… you don’t really care. You just have an opinion. Every one of those pastors up there along with myself care about the children and the people we serve who are at the center of these issues. They go to these school whereas your kid probably do not. And they go to our churches. We hear the stories and the unreported concerns. And as citizens who happen to be clergy; we are concerned and we care. No one is blaming this on the “Man” or on white people. What is being said simply is… “Why must teacher be locked up, or sent to jail when no one in the state of GA or any other state anywhere has ever been locked up for the same thing! This is not the first time this has happened.” It is wrong to cheat. We do not disagree ok? But there is a bigger problem, and no one wants to engage it. But rather send some kid’s mother or father to jail for something that most criminals get slaps on the wrist for. We have real criminals out here, and we want to send teachers to jail. I’d rather they lose their jobs or even their liscence… but jail? Come on!

If you have a problem with Clergy being concerned (be it informed or misinformed) tough cookies. We are unapolagetically still concerned. And if you have something real to say and have the courage to say it to our faces… meet us every Monday at 9:30am at 838 Cascade Road Atlanta, GA 30310 (The VICARS Community Center). Everyone is welcomed. I promise you… we are not bigots… we are people trying to make a real difference. Unlike blogging or taking cheap shots at people with nasty remarks and opinions. Ask for me if you come. And don’t hide… no one there will hurt you. We welcome your feedback and input.

gogither

December 10th, 2010
4:00 pm

Thanks for your martyrdom Pastor. Unfortunately, I do get it and since I know personally half of the pastors in that picture, I’ll pass. The only concern I know most of them to have is their own prosperity and egos.

gogither

December 10th, 2010
4:01 pm

The shame of it all is that you all think you do get it

Burroughston Broch

December 10th, 2010
7:43 pm

@ Pastor J

You wrote, “It is wrong to cheat. We do not disagree ok? But there is a bigger problem, and no one wants to engage it.”

Let’s engage it, sir. What is the bigger problem? Is it that you want to give cheating teachers and administrators a free pass because there are more serious criminals in our society?

Remember that those who lied to investigators and court officers may be charged with perjury (a felony) as well.

Black ATL Native

December 12th, 2010
11:42 am

To my white brothers & sisters as well as my as black brothers and sisters,

With regards to the question of race in regards to this discussion, I would like to point out a different angle. There has historically been a force within the black community that no one talks about. This force is more worse than any discrimination at the hands of whites. This force has been the “Black Elite”. Dr. Michael Eric Dyson, in his book “Is Bill Cosby Right Or Has The Black Middle Class Lost Their Mind”, called them the “Afrostocracy”. This group ancestors were the proponents of the integrationists who believed in social equity but in the same breath sought to control the Black lower class. This was led by leverage by men like John W. Dobbs and other black republicans of that time. Dr. King was involved to some degree with this group but when it was realized that Dr. King was for the advance of the common working class blacks (i. e. Memphis Sanitation workers), he was dealt with. This “Afrostocracy” preached integration but in stealth leveraged power of the “Ghettocracy”. As it applies to this APS case, whenever the “Afrostocracy” is backed into a corner of ethics or criminality, they will use their sock puppets to play the “Ah the poor Black discrimination card”. If I were white, I probably would have contempt. Integration occurred and what happened to our community? Those “Afrocrats” left our communities for the biggest houses and left the common folk to fend for themselves without the tools to support our communities. I am a Black Atlantan who grew up in the projects, figured a few things out, guided by some great APS teachers and am now am an APS employee in these poor schools. I have seen the contempt administrators have demonstrated to these poor black babies. I have seen students who have wondered what do these leaders of my school have in common with besides the color of my skin. With regards to Bev. Hall, I remember when I was an APS HS student. I saw my school superintendent (Alonzo Crim) in the grocery store. I saw him running in the student APS Fun Run (1980s). How many of our students seen Beverly Hall?

Black ATL Native

December 12th, 2010
11:50 am

Please excuse all typos in the previous post. I punched it in using my smartphone. I hope my points were made regardless.

bootney farnsworth

December 12th, 2010
1:56 pm

maybe NOW, but not likely, Maureen will finally admit
there is a racial componant to nearly everything which
occurs in Atlanta politics.

maybe, but not likely

bootney farnsworth

December 12th, 2010
1:59 pm

deleting DS post on King was the height of cowardice and hyprocracy.

I probably wouldn’t have read it since DS posts run on way too long
for my taste.

but the intellectually honest thing – and therefore the one Maureen
seems less likely to do – is leave it and let DS take his lumps if it
was indeed wrong

bootney farnsworth

December 12th, 2010
2:01 pm

Pastor J.

if you mean what you say, take the race of the participants
out of the title.

otherwise….

chillywilly fan1

December 12th, 2010
5:33 pm

Well said Black ATL native!!…Bev Hall only shows up when special recognition (grant money) is involved. Unfortunately, it’s all about money for her not about the APS black children! Follow the money and you will always see her and her cabinet members.

Buuroughston Broch

December 12th, 2010
7:04 pm

@ Black ATL native

I agree – well said, sir. I have often wondered if “Afrostocracy” is part of the problem. Is this the problem to which Pastor J alluded?

Black ATL Native

December 13th, 2010
7:54 am

@Buuroughston Broch
You stated:
I agree – well said, sir. I have often wondered if “Afrostocracy” is part of the problem. Is this the problem to which Pastor J alluded?

IMHO I believe it to be both. In some cases, and I believe this to be one, the Afrostocracy is manipulating the CBC. The preachers in the African American community are always subject to this type of manipulation. The preachers are governed by a spirituality of passion, righteousness and crusade. When convinced that a battle is righteous and aligned with equal rights and justice in an evil world, they sharpen their swords and go to war. In this case, if they (CBC) would subdue their passions and simply pick up the AJC and research the process of this investigation, they may turn their swords on the Afrostocracy who may have sent them into battle unjustly.

Ernest

December 13th, 2010
2:38 pm

Well said, Black ATL Native!! While I also agree with some of the points raised by Pastor J, it comes back to those in leadership positions throughout the community. If students are using outdated text books and pastors know about it for years, why haven’t they advocated for a remedy before? This is an issue the entire community could rally around, if true.

As I stated earlier, it will be interesting to hear comments from the CBC after their meeting with DA Howard.

chillywilly

December 13th, 2010
4:07 pm

None of APS students are using outdated textbooks. As a matter of fact, APS probably has more updated equipment and textbooks than any school system in Metro Atlanta or the State for that matter. If I was DA Howard, I wouldn’t waste my time meeting with the CBC.

chillwillyfan

December 13th, 2010
4:37 pm

@chillywilly-”None of APS students are using outdated textbooks.”
This might be the case now, but a year ago when I was teaching n APS there was a problem with adequate technology and books. Math teachers were the only ones who received adequate training and supplies. The rest of us had to create our own resources.I sometimes perceived that the Title 1 funds were used for “special teachers” and administrators.There was always a shortage or nothing when I asked for anything.

Angry Parents

December 14th, 2010
4:24 pm

I agree ATL Born. While I don’t agree with the Black Clergy and I am Black person as well, there is not need to throw racism in this forum of dialogue. Let’s be respectful.