DeKalb faces challenges in upcoming redistricting
Redistricting is a chilling experience for everyone involved, the affected families and the school administrators. It’s especially true when families feel they are being drawn out of a beloved school or feeder system.
That is a deep concern in north DeKalb, where parents are gathering tonight at a redistricting meeting at Henderson Middle School at 6:30. Parents in the Leafmore neighborhood fear the possibility that they will be shifted from the Oak Grove/Henderson/Lakeside feeder system to the Sagamore/Shamrock/Druid Hills system.
At this point, DeKalb is in the discussion and planning stages of redistricting. As the recent school closing hearings in DeKalb demonstrated, parents will rise up quickly even at the suggestion that their children could be tapped for redistricting.
The challenge in DeKalb County is that growth has slowed in the south end of the county, which had been a hotbed of new housing a few years ago. During the school closing hearings, system officials shared stark numbers that showed half-empty classrooms in many south DeKalb areas. But many schools continue to draw new students in the north end of the county.
That north/south line is both a geographic and a racial one in DeKalb, which makes this conversation all the more strained.
DeKalb Schools are surveying parents. Most of the responses have been from elementary school parents. The survey gives the number of respondents by schools. The top five were Fernbank Elementary with 150 responses; Montgomery with 106; Vanderlyn with 105; Austin with 62 and Briar Vista with 46.
Asked the most important factors in redistricting, respondents listed these as their top three: Keeping communities intact (672), geographic proximity (610) and instructional capacity (486).
I don’t envy anyone in DeKalb as redistricting is never easy, and there are factors in this discussion that will make it even more complicated and volatile.
–By Maureen Downey, AJC Get Schooled blog
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November 29th, 2010
1:26 pm
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Dr. Tim
November 29th, 2010
1:33 pm
All I can say to DeKalb admnistrators is good luck. People get very emotional about what school their child attends, even if they don’t get care about anything else.
Ernest
November 29th, 2010
1:41 pm
Tough decisions must be made as the district is losing state money due to having over 10,000 empty seats throughout the district. We are simply seeing the natural evolution of population shifts over time.
In the mid to late eighties, DeKalb closed/restructured many schools in central and north DeKalb due to ‘white flight’ (partly due to the M to M program) and converting to junior high/middle school model. With the exception of when new schools were built, that may have been the last time that redistricting was done. Will ’squeaky wheels’ prevent the best decisions for all students and the commmunity to be implemented? This will be interesting…..
Trbinado
November 29th, 2010
1:49 pm
I’m beyond disappointed that teacher quality was of 3rd most importance on these questionnaires.
ABC
November 29th, 2010
1:49 pm
Dr. Tim: people get “emotional” because they have invested a lot of time, money, and resources into living in a particular district. For me personally, I am very active in my kids’ school and would HATE to be districted out of it. Also, my husband and I have made sacrifices and live in a house that’s smaller and shabbier because we wanted to be in a particular school district. We could have bought a nicer and bigger home in a not so good elementary school, but we decided that our children education is worth it.
So yes, people care! and they should!
Dekalbite
November 29th, 2010
1:51 pm
Fernbank parents will probably prevail in the end. They have the money and influence to ensure their community school stays intact, and they have a lot of motivation to succeed in leaving their community and school virtually untouched. Many of them have paid $50,000 to $100,000 more to live in houses that are zoned into Fernbank. Consider that as housing prices went down all over Atlanta, they rose in the Fernbank community. Not many people were laid off from CDC or Emory where so many of these individuals work. MDs, PhDs, law degrees, etc. are the norm for this group. Many are politically active and involved in the business end of a wealthy university. The average Fernbank house valuation is close to $500,000, and there are many very modest ranch houses in the Emory/Fernback area that cost a premium to buy.
Willivee Drive is one street over from Medlock Elementary School. These are very tiny brick homes from the 40s and 50s. If you live on one side of the street you are zoned to Medlock (a short 3 or 4 minute walk). If you live on the other side, you are zoned to Fernbank and bused there. Houses look exactly alike, but people have paid tens of thousands more to live on the Fernbank side. Scottdale public housing is zoned into Medlock so their test scores, PTA wealth and support, etc. is much less than Fernbank.
Fernbank is a lovely tree filled area close to downtown, midtown and Emory. As for Fernbank elementary School, the PTA is wealthy and active, Emory University is a close partner with them, they have lots of extra gifted funds, teachers teach to the top because they have so many top students, and they have a successful IB program in place so students can feed into the Druid Hills IB program (top students in classes of 17 with highly qualified teachers).
Fernbank parents have much on the line as they have spent years carving out and created a high quality education for the students in their community in the midst of a failing school system. My money is on these politically influential, news savvy, and high achieving Fernbank group. They have been a quiet group because they have an educational oasis in the midst of a desert. But they are a sleeping giant. I would not want to be the one that wakes them up.
B. Killebrew
November 29th, 2010
1:53 pm
Do the Leafmore people realize that Sagamore Hills is a great elementary school? And that Druid Hills High School seems to have its act together (at the moment) more so than Lakeside? And finally–that Shamrock is comparable to Henderson?
Dunwoody Mom
November 29th, 2010
1:56 pm
Ditto what Ernest said…Hopefully, DCSS will have the backbone to do what is best for the entire school system and not just the few “squeaky wheel” parent groups.
And the Dunwoody/Vanderlyn redistricting is going to get ugly, ugly, ugly.
catlady
November 29th, 2010
2:09 pm
Ernest: You can’t say “evolution” in Georgia! Especially on a school blog!
Dekalbite
November 29th, 2010
2:10 pm
“And the Dunwoody/Vanderlyn redistricting is going to get ugly, ugly, ugly.”
And who can blame them. Schools are so uneven all over DeKalb County that people who move into this county count on their own efforts to make a school functional for their kids. Educational offerings and experiences vary widely from school to school, and our Central Office administration and BOE seems incapable of governing in an efficacious manner. Parents do not trust this BOE and administration to be able to put aside politics when making these decisions. Meanwhile, their children’s education is at stake, and many parents do not want to opt for private school in this economically uncertain times. Those that have children in high achieving schools do not want to rock the boat.
Dunwoody Mom
November 29th, 2010
2:14 pm
My kids didn’t go to Vanderlyn and they are doing very well. To assume that a child cannot get a good education at another Dunwoody elementary school is insulting, but then again, we’re used to that attitude.
oldtimer
November 29th, 2010
2:22 pm
Dekalbite..I agree with you. Many people bought their home in the area with the schools that were the best. Fernbank is wonderful. Hendersone..excellent. I, though am of the belief that parents should be able to choose the schools they want for their children. So many of Dekalb’s schools are awful. Maybe the thing to do would to be to makesomeof them “academies” or ‘charter school”. I now live in TN and it seems to be improving some schools in Nashville.
John
November 29th, 2010
2:23 pm
“keeping communities intact” == PC way of saying “we don’t want our kids in school with those monkeys” or “we don’t want our kids in school with those crackers”.
IOW: Racism, pure and simple.
Jeff
November 29th, 2010
2:27 pm
In my experience as a former teacher, the NUMBER ONE factor in a child’s education:
His or her own internal motivation.
The NUMBER TWO factor:
his or her parents’ providing stinging external motivation – whether via belt on backside or withholding the electronics, whatever gets the kid’s attention and makes that motivation internal.
Schools have little to nothing to do with it, and parents just use them as a convenient scape goat for their own dismal failure.
Sagamore/Shamrock Mom
November 29th, 2010
2:27 pm
I love Shamrock Middle School. All the parents that have children at Henderson complain to me about the numerous problems. I wish all of Sagamore Hills would go to these schools.
Dekalbite
November 29th, 2010
2:32 pm
My child didn’t go to Oak Grove, and she has been very successful as well. But our local school functions just fine. I worked in almost every elementary school in DCSS (middle and high as well), and there is considerable variation in services from school to school. DCSS needs to concentrate on standardizing facilities, faculty qualifications and course offerings. Title 1 funds need to be spent at the local school level to help “level the playing field” between the schools with wealthy PTAs and those with very little in the way of parental support. There are schools in DCSS where teachers spend most of their day teaching students who are below grade level in reading and math and handling discipline problems. To say all our schools offer equal opportunities to all our students is disingenuous at best.
Dunwoody Mom
November 29th, 2010
2:36 pm
I don’t recall anyone saying that all schools offer equal opportunities. That is one of the reasons for the Eduational Site assessments done by the consulting firm assisting DCSS with the closing/redistricting venture – to actually have documented what is offered in each school and if it is offered in an appropriate setting.
Dekalbite
November 29th, 2010
2:45 pm
“I don’t recall anyone saying that all schools offer equal opportunities.”
Well, that’s the number 1 reason for the resistance to rezoning. Much of what makes schools uneven in DCSS is parental involvement and PTA wealth. School achievement swings widely in DCSS when it comes to those variables. That’s why it’s so critical that Title 1 funds be used wisely. I will say that they have not been used wisely because the main purpose of Title 1 funds is to close that parental involvement and PTA wealth gap which shows up in lower student achievement for too many students in poorer schools. Student achievement in Title 1 schools has gone down – not up. I’m not aware that the Educational Site assessments done the consulting firm will address those critical issues so rezoning will be contentious.
Mid DeKalb mom
November 29th, 2010
2:48 pm
If the county had redistricted as often as it needed to, this wouldn’t be such a problem. Other large, urban and suburban school districts do this every 3-5 years. People are used to it, they know that the people who live around them will move with them and that their kids will know people at the new school. I wish DeKalb would just get it done with and let us move on. Let people settle in, get things done in their new schools, and then look for the redistricting to happen again in 3 years. It isn’t traumatic if they do it regularly and openly. The main thing they need to do before this will work, though, is come up with some minimum set of educational services that every school will have so that there are not tremendous differences. There will always be some differences, but not all of the resources or points should be counted per school. For example, if one school has 2 1/2 gifted teachers and another school has none, the school that has none should get at least .5 regardless of the points “earned” by that school. I think PE, music, art, and gifted should be in the minimum criteria. I am not so concerned with the foreign language as a requirement in every school, at least on the elementary level.
Dunwoody parent
November 29th, 2010
2:59 pm
Dunwoody Mom,
Just because a family wants to stay in the school they chose does not have to mean something negative to the other schools. Dunwoody Mom,
your views across all the blogs definitely show your bias and angst toward other people in your community that do not think like you.
Dunwoody parent
November 29th, 2010
3:00 pm
Also, nowhere has it been stated for fact that DES will be repurposed.
Jim
November 29th, 2010
3:02 pm
John@2:23pm: Those same racists have been supporting John Lewis, Cynthia McKinney (when in the district), and Barack Obama overwhelmingly in elections. The folks around Fernbank are fighting to keep their kids in place as opposed to keeping others out.
Dunwoody Mom
November 29th, 2010
3:05 pm
@Dunwoody parent – I beg to differ – this “redistricting” issue is a hot topic in Dunwoody – I cannot venture to the grocery store without over-hearing conversations about it. And yes, I’ve heard many negative and insulting commments about other Dunwoody elementary schools, so please do not accuse me of “angst and bias” – that’s a little dramatic don’t you think?
Both Jim Redovian and Nancy Jester have said that Dunwoody ES should be returned to a K-5 school.
pierre1852
November 29th, 2010
3:05 pm
Someone said earlier that Medlock receives students from Scottdale. How is this possible when both McLendon Elementary and Avondale Elementary are much closer? It seems too that many Druid Hills High students virtually watch Clarkston High or Avondale High from their school bus windows in the morning and afternoon, and that both these schools have very low enrollment numbers and therefore many empty seats. Is it something to do with old time anti-segregationist/busing policies? Am I just being naive in thinking that the re-drawn lines should have students going to the school that is closest to them? Why is that principle not at work? I’m new to this issue, so maybe I’m missing something obvious here (Civil Rights? Desegregation hangover?).
Teacher
November 29th, 2010
3:10 pm
It doesn’t matter where a child goes to school as long as parents are involved.
alm
November 29th, 2010
3:10 pm
DeKalb voters in school districts 1 and 7 don’t forget to vote in the runoff election tomorrow!
District 1
Nancy Jester
James Redovian
District 7
Donna Edler
Zepora Roberts
lynn d
November 29th, 2010
3:25 pm
Pierre
DeKalb has to many schools that are to close together.
In our case, we are between a mile and a mile and half from three, maybe 4, elementary schools.
Dunwoody Mom
November 29th, 2010
3:26 pm
@Dekalb parent – how do you relieve the overcrowding at Vanderlyn, Austin and Chesnut without “repurposing” Dunwoody Elementary?
Cere
November 29th, 2010
3:51 pm
“That north/south line is both a geographic and a racial one in DeKalb, which makes this conversation all the more strained.”
I hope everyone is aware that of almost 100,000 students in DCSS, less than 10,000 (10%) are white. In fact nearly 12,000 are Hispanic. And well over 70% are African-American. I would say that the “north/south divide” is more of a leftover perception of racial division rather than a reality for most of our schools countywide. Although most of the 10% of the whites and 12% Hispanics live in the north end, the north and central is very racially diverse with many African-Americans as well as refugees and immigrants from all over the world. For example, how many schools in south DeKalb provide ESOL or International schools?
Dunwoody parent
November 29th, 2010
3:52 pm
Redistrict a little, and include Kingsley.
Dunwoody Mom
November 29th, 2010
3:56 pm
What do you mean “redistrict a little”?
dunwoody parent
November 29th, 2010
4:13 pm
Balance the enrollment at the then 4 k-3 schools as best as possible. I most definitely agree with you that all three schools provide excellent education. I like the 4-5 concept, and am not opposed to redistricting altogether, even if it means me.
dunwoody parent
November 29th, 2010
4:14 pm
Make that all the Dunwoody feeder schools
Ernest
November 29th, 2010
4:15 pm
I would say that the “north/south divide” is more of a leftover perception of racial division rather than a reality for most of our schools countywide.
Well said Cere! It has become a ‘convenient’ allegation by some to intimidate.
Adding to the comments by Jeff and Teacher, my children attend schools in south DeKalb and I believe they received a quality education. Where I felt it was lacking, I along with my wife supplemented their instruction. Regretfully involved and engaged parents are a ‘minority’ in some schools and they grow frustrated with environments that focus more on remediation than enrichment. I believe everyone agrees that one’s address should not define the quality of education their children receive but there are realities the schools have to face with respect to the other children that may come ill prepared for school.
Finding a school and/or teacher that can use differentiated instructional methods in teaching classes with varied abilities and learning styles would be a coup. Otherwise, we may need to consider ability grouping to ensure each child receives what they need to reach their potential.
tutorcation.com
November 29th, 2010
4:18 pm
Hence the reason why we need more support teachers (not necessarily ESL) to fill in the learning gaps that occur every time these kids get shuffled around. I personally tutor several kids in South Gwinnett that missed certain core skills during the shuffle. Same thing happens whenever a county “improves” a program, such as math.
I sure wish we’d let the “market” fix the problem with learning vouchers. If poorly-run businesses close down due to inefficiency, so should poorly-run schools. Let the parents control where their kids attend, and watch the market straighten it out. I used to teach in DeKalb, and knew of several teachers who certainly didn’t deserve to be there, much less get paid for it. Yet they’re guaranteed a job each year due to “tenure”.
Dunwoody Mom
November 29th, 2010
4:22 pm
I have heard that DES would be “at capacity” within a few years – I guess we’ll wait and see if Dan Drake’s data backs that up. If so, a little thinking “outside the box” might be called for.
Good grief
November 29th, 2010
4:25 pm
Mid DeKalb Mom @2:48 is SO correct! I taught in the fastest-growing school district in the United States in the 1980’s and parents there accepted that redistricting would occur every few years. This DID keep the schools equitable….it was UNHEARD of that one school would have more programs than another. The exception was the a magnet for science and math that–of course–had more math and science teachers. But everything else was equal.
B. Killebrew
November 29th, 2010
4:33 pm
@pierre (and others):
It is important to peruse the current district boundaries in order to best understand the situation.
These links will be very helpful for everyone participating in this blog topic. Please read and view:
http://www.dekalb.k12.ga.us/planning/files/ES%20Attendance%20Area.pdf
http://www.dekalb.k12.ga.us/planning/files/Middle%20School%20Attendance%20Area.pdf
http://www.dekalb.k12.ga.us/planning/files/High%20School%20Attendance%20area.pdf
B. Killebrew
November 29th, 2010
4:35 pm
pierre,
You will see that the Scottdale Area is divided between McLendon, Indian Creek, Midway, Avondale, and Medlock
B. Killebrew
November 29th, 2010
4:36 pm
And more, pierre:
You have to remember that a lot of the Druid Hills High Zone is the former Shamrock High Zone–most of Shamrock was absorbed by Druid Hills.
Dekalbite@ Jim 3:02 pm
November 29th, 2010
4:44 pm
LOL
“The folks around Fernbank are fighting to keep their kids in place……….” is just a euphemism for ““keeping communities intact” “.
Dekalbite@
November 29th, 2010
4:50 pm
Enter your comments here
Dekalbite@Ernest
November 29th, 2010
4:55 pm
“Finding a school and/or teacher that can use differentiated instructional methods in teaching classes with varied abilities and learning styles would be a coup. Otherwise, we may need to consider ability grouping to ensure each child receives what they need to reach their potential.”
Many teachers know how to use differentiated instructional methods, however class sizes of over 30 will probably guarantee this will rarely happen. DCSS cutting almost 500 teacher positions in the last two years rather than fund the classroom and cut in the admin and support area has contributed to this problem. Please talk with some good teachers and ask them how much differentiated instruction they can do with 30 or 33 or 36 kids in a class. I agree that with the class sizes DCSS currently has, ability grouping is about the only way to go.
Allen
November 29th, 2010
5:17 pm
I have a hard time with the “we bought our home in this district because of the good schools” argument against being redistricted. Putting aside anything else those loaded words might mean, the fact is the good schools in that district were created by someone else’s years of effort with the local PTA, local principal, etc.–not your effort if you only moved in 5 years ago or less. Maybe if you get redistricted you’ll have the opportunity to do that work yourself in your new school home.
Dekalbite
November 29th, 2010
6:02 pm
“I taught in the fastest-growing school district in the United States in the 1980’s and parents there accepted that redistricting would occur every few years. This DID keep the schools equitable”
That’s true that redistricting every few years would force all parents to care about all schools. After all, your child might end up in another school. But this is not the way they think. The pact with the DCSS administration has been – keep us intact, leave us alone, and we’ll take care of our kids. If lu do that we won’t make noise about anything else that goes on in the system.
col
November 29th, 2010
6:32 pm
Dunwoody Mom
That is not a decision a board member should be making. Rather, their role is to vote on the recommendations made by the staff to them.
Dunwoody Mom
November 29th, 2010
6:56 pm
@col – I agree with you – wholeheartedly!!!
ABC
November 29th, 2010
7:05 pm
Allen: NO THANKS. I have ZERO interest in sacrificing my chidlren’s education in an effort to improve a crappy school.
another dekalb parent
November 29th, 2010
7:46 pm
Everyone pays taxes and deserves a good education and if you purchase a home on the fringe of a school district and don’t ask basic questions about schools in the next district, you have not planned adequately. This sounds harsh, but it is not like it is hard to find out if your school is overcrowded and may be redistricted. A good school is a magnet and just like anything else in life, when there is overcrowding, something will have to shift. Fernbank is extremely overcrowded and with 24 students in a first grade class with no aide, it may not be your best option. Just like the families in very valuable homes who were shifted from Morningside to the new SPARK Elementary in APS, it is up to the parents to make it work. This is the price we pay for a public education system.
col
November 29th, 2010
8:31 pm
24 students in a first grade class with no aide,
That is a permitted class size. Don’t presuem that if students are redistricted that class size will shrink. Teachers will be pulled as well.
another dekalb parent
November 29th, 2010
8:58 pm
Well, if good teachers are valued as part of a “good school” and they are pulled to another school, then wouldn’t the school that gets them improve?
Mid DeKalb mom
November 29th, 2010
9:14 pm
I think that people who purchased on the edge of a school line knew there was a risk and shouldn’t be complaining about property value. The reason that a house on one side of the street costs $20K more as the house on the other side of the street zoned for a different school is because DeKalb Schools let the redistricting issue sit idle long enough to have entrenched real estate patterns not only emerge but become deeply rooted. It is just not this way in other school districts. Now, I understand that ALL school districts have good and bad areas – that’s just the way life is in a diverse (in all ways) system. However, if lines are redrawn regularly (every 3-5 years), the lines become fuzzier, and the stark contrast between schools that are within 3 miles of each other become much less. This DOESN’T mean that the good schools are “brought down”. If the extreme inequity is softened, the kids within that school still receive the services they need in a school system that cares about educational opportunity parity.
col
November 29th, 2010
9:59 pm
In most instances, in DeKalb, the stark contrasts between schools that are nearby are caused by demographics. When you have a handful of school that are mostly populated with the children of highly-educated parents, you will have one type of school. When the neighboring school has a very different population, you will have another.
When one PTA can easily raise 100,000+ and another in the area struggles to raise 15,000, these are differences that are hard to overcome.
Dekalbite
November 29th, 2010
9:59 pm
Very typical comment by Fernbank paren:
“Our children go to Fernbank Elementary.
We moved to Clairmont Heights so our children could attend Fernbank Elementary.
Most of our neighbors moved to Clairmont Heights because of Fernbank. Most of our neighbors have advanced degrees and work at Emory and CDC. If we are forced to leave Fernbank and attend another school we will probably either move, or send our children to private school.”
Dekalbite@col
November 29th, 2010
10:04 pm
“When one PTA can easily raise 100,000+ and another in the area struggles to raise 15,000, these are differences that are hard to overcome.”
That’s a very modest estimate. Austin, Vanderlyn and Fernbank raise way in excess of $100,000 a year. They have extrmely hardworking PTA members and are very savvy at fund raising. This is why Title 1 funds need to be under control of the local Title 1 schools so the very targeted and effective assistance these wealthy PTAs give their classrooms can be replicated at schools that don’t have access to discretionary funds.
Linda
November 29th, 2010
10:10 pm
Mid DeKalb Mom and another dekalb parent – it’s refreshing to see your rational, logical perspectives with regards to redistricting. There should be very little public comment involved in this. The redistricting plan developed by objective professionals should be based on facts, efficiencies and providing every school with the same programs. Period.
another dekalb parent
November 29th, 2010
10:15 pm
If I may just remind everyone that Fernbank is extremely overcrowded and cannot be expanded physically. The building is 50 years old and I understand from a Fernbank parent that it’s a “big deal” that the 5th graders are not in trailers so that they can finish their last year at Fernbank in the building. Come on! This isn’t about parity at this point. If the school is redistricted, hundreds of kids will go to neighboring schools, which will theoretically “improve” those neighboring schools, if these kids are from families who will be invested in making whatever school their children attend a good one. It’s not like 5 kids will be sent to one neighboring school. We’re talking hundreds. Fernbank is a great school, but you can’t just cram so many kids into a school and think it will stay “great”.
col
November 29th, 2010
10:15 pm
DeKalblite@col
There are many schools in DeKalb that are not Title 1 that can’t raise 100,000+ annually. There are near the Oak Groves, Fernbanks, etc. What do you propose be done for them? How do you make up the difference.
Dekalbite@col
November 29th, 2010
10:16 pm
See what I mean by what PTA money can buy:
“I’m very involved in the school, as are many of the parents at Fernbank. Parent involvement is one of the things that makes Fernbank very special. We pay for our Art and Science teacher’s salaries.”
How can other schools compete with that? Would you want your child zoned into a school that doesn’t offer these extras?
col
November 29th, 2010
10:17 pm
DeKalbite
And that is the problem. And if DCSS swoops in and provides all those things for every school, schools like Fernbank will continue to raise big $ and use it for other things.
d
November 29th, 2010
10:32 pm
People, we’re talking about BUILDINGS!!!! If you are rezoned and you give the same interest in your new school as you did the old one, you will see the same results. If schools are consolidated, where do you think the teachers are going to go? Into oblivion? No, they will go to the schools where the children are. If you truly want your children to receive a well-rounded education, we have to do something about all of these empty seats. Schools don’t receive full funding unless there are 450 students. Just think, we could have Art and Music at every elementary school! We could be using state funds instead of local funds to fund programs in DCSS.
Frankly, one of our greatest strengths is a big factor in the problem. We have so many choices in DeKalb that enrollments are lower at the neighborhood schools. If students weren’t leaving Gresham Park to attend DESA (just an example, not saying these numbers are significant enough….. I don’t have that data handy at 10:30 at night), there might not be a problem of Gresham Park facing closure after this year. Choices have consequences, but if we do consolidate, we can bring the strengths of two schools into one and improve education for all involved.
Dekalbite@col
November 29th, 2010
10:35 pm
Which is why it is critical to drive Title 1 funds ($40,000,000 for Title 1 schools) to the schoolhouse level. Currently, almost all funds are spent by the Central Office for non-teaching personnel and expensive and ineffective canned learning programs. $9,000,000 for 90 non-teaching Instructional Coaches to support America’s Choice, $8,000,000 for America’s Choice, $1,400,000 for Springboard, $3,000,000 for Central Office Title 1 personnel. $400,000 just for one conference (aka Hollywood Conference) mainly attended by the non-teaching personnel.
Title 1 schools cannot compete with Fernbank, Austin, Vanderlyn, etc. PTAs because Title 1 funds rarely trickle down to the local schoolhouse.
Dekalbite@col
November 29th, 2010
10:49 pm
“There are many schools in DeKalb that are not Title 1 that can’t raise 100,000+ annually. There are near the Oak Groves, Fernbanks, etc. What do you propose be done for them? How do you make up the difference.”
My child went to a non-Title 1 school “next to Oak Grove” (which we were very happy with), and that is a common complaint of schools caught in the middle. I don’t know how you address that disparity.
But having worked in almost every school in DCSS, I can say the gulf is by far the greatest in Title 1 schools, and it is so sad to watch the expenditure of Title 1 dollars that could be spent in direct instruction and science and technology spent on high paying non-teaching personnel that do not impact student achievement.
DeKalb Educated
November 30th, 2010
9:46 am
I live in Leafmore – my children could walk on sidewalks to Oak Grove Elementary and even to Lakeside High. It is two miles from my front door to Lakeside’s front door. Druid Hills, is a good high school, but it is five miles away and no one could walk or ride a bike through the CDC, Emory or VA traffic. The traffic in that area is a nightmare. Sagamore has trailers. Oak Grove is crowded. For many of us in the Oak Grove / Lakeside district, we have worked long and hard to raise money, build nature trails, paint, landscape – do all we could because the School Board would not give us money to do so. One school board member told me when I was trying to replace the 30 year old stage curtains in thte gym where the LHS orchestra played (not in an auditorium – a gym) that Lakeside had everything and “her students” needed money and we could go out and raise it. That school board member is running today and I hope she is defeated. All the schools in the North end of the county are over crowded as families move out and young families move in to the neighborhoods. Lakeside is finally being rennovated after Tucker was completed. Now, they want to move us out? Why so far to Druid Hills? It makes no sense.
Leafmore Rez
November 30th, 2010
10:50 am
It is pathetic that the author would single out one perspective and inflame it with the word “fear” to make her point. Someone please explain to me why Leafmore parents would “fear” having to send their kids to Sagamore Elementary? Or are you sure they do “fear” it? A significant portion of the parents in Leafmore send their kids to Sagamore and are delighted with it. No, it is not lavished with household wealth like some of the other nearby schools, but the kids that come out of there do as well if not better than their nearby peers at the middle and high school levels.
The legitimate issue is the disconnect between the local communities and the neighborhood districting at the middle and high school levels. Leafmore is just not part of the Druid Hills community, plain and simple. It is part of the Lakeside/Oak Grove community. If you sent the Leafmore/Sagamore kids to Henderson and Lakeside (with most of their friends that are already districted that way), I think most of the “fear” would melt away.
DeKalb Educated
November 30th, 2010
11:33 am
It’s not fear. Sagamore and Druid Hills are good schools. It is that we are closer to Oak Grove and Lakeside. We are much closer to Lakeside than those who live out near the Gwinnett County line – Pleasantdale. Who drew that line? Gas prices are rising. Why bus kids who can walk or ride bikes to school over five miles to another school. Sagamore is over-crowded. Druid Hills is crowded. Druid Hills has 1350 students, Lakeside has 1750 – it’s a matter of a few hundred and not enough to warrant fracturing whole communities. THE BOE is once again wasting time and money over a few hundred students? Shouldn’t they be hiring a new superindent or writing a valid ethics policy instead?
CH parent
November 30th, 2010
4:31 pm
As to “Fernbank is EXTREMELY OVERCROWDED” folks. Fernbank is over the capacity by choice, that is they take in currently 100+ non-attendance zone students through school choice and other programs. All but one is from the Driud Hills zone BTW. If it wasn’t for these it would be just barely over capacity. Fernbank also used to be 100 students higher with a smaller school 20 years ago or so.
The classroom sizes are the same as other “full” schools, there are just more of them. While it would be nice to not have trailers, they really are not a “big deal” to most teachers, parents and kids.
The reason Fernbank works and the zone has not changed since the doors opened is simple. The parents, teachers, and administration are committed to respect each other and work together to keep continuity in the school. Yes, the parents are more educated and have higher salaries and therefore give more money. Is that wrong? Should they be moved out because they had the opportunite or struggled to go to college and worked hard for what they have? I personally went to college for 14 years, mostly while working or barely making it and going into debt to get my family to where they are. Should my kids be punished for this?
The reason property values reflect this is because people want what Fernbank has to offer. You cannot just recreate this in another school by moving kids, parents and teachers. It takes decades and dedication. It is NOT “just BUILDINGS !!!” as one post said. Fernbank would be what it is if they were in tents. You really don’t get it do you?
People who care about their kids will do whatever they can financially and logistically to get their kids the best education they can afford and can handle…period. They should not be lambasted for protecting their children’s future.
Yes, DCSS needs to fix schools that are broken, close schools that are failing and under enrolled because of it, but leave schools that are working alone and maybe learn a thing or two from them.
How many of you spreading rumors, many of which are false on here, have ever visited Fernbank?
concerned citizen
November 30th, 2010
4:43 pm
Well said CH parent. I am not from your area, but agree with everything you said.
Dekalbite
November 30th, 2010
5:12 pm
Why would Fernbank have 100 out of district kids currently at the school? That’s almost 15% of the total enrollment! Quite frankly, I can see why parents would be upset if 100 out of district students stayed at Fernbank as their children are sent to other schools. How on earth did an elementary school get so many out of district students?
Linda
November 30th, 2010
6:38 pm
@CH – two major arteries separate Clairmont Hills from Fernbank while Medlock is right around the corner about a mile away!! It’s ridiculous that you folks haven’t been redistricted already. It’s astounding that you think that it’s your right to stay forever in the Fernbank district. As another dekalb parent stated earlier, redistricting is part of the price you pay for a free public education.
Dekalbite
November 30th, 2010
6:48 pm
Clairemont Heights: Located roughly between North Decatur Rd, Clairmont Rd, Mason Mill Park, and Willivee Dr.
Some of this community is located much nearer Medlock and some are much nearer Fernbank. It seems like those students around the corner from Medlock would go there. Plus the traffic from Willivee and North Superior and that whole Medlock area to Fernbank is just awful in the morning. Crossing North Decatur takes forever.
Pierre
November 30th, 2010
7:02 pm
A belated thank you to B. Killebrew for posting maps of the attendance zones. They look like gerrymandered electoral maps. The shape of the Cross Keys High district defies description!
Jan
November 30th, 2010
7:43 pm
Rezoning… Yet another reason we bought less house… So we could afford to send our kids to private school. Depending on DeKalb County to decide where our kids were educated seemed dicey to us. I feel sorry for all the families, students, and teachers whose fives will be disrupted by this issue. Hopefully the good schools will remain good and the lower performing schools will improve, but somehow I doubt it will happen that way. I see it as a lose/lose situation.
Linda
November 30th, 2010
8:28 pm
The JiffyLube at the corner of Clairmont and N. Decatur is 1.6 miles from both Medlock and Fernbank schools, meaning the entire neighborhood of Clairmont Heights is closer to Medlock. The only way to be assured of the public schools your kids will attend is to move across the street from those schools you would like your child to attend. Heck, the entire neighborhood of Leafmore is closer to Lakeside HS than it is to Druid HIlls.
I’ve done a lot of research on the preposterous attendance zones. Like Jan above, I finally decided not to gamble and sent my own child to private school.
Pierre – the maps are pretty incredible, aren’t they? The Cross Keys district is shaped for one thing: to keep the highest concentrations of Latinos in one school district. The Latin community makes it work pretty well, considering the meager resources they receive and the gross overcrowding in the elementary schools like Dresden, Montclair and Woodward and Sequoyah MS.
Dekalb schools are one big fat mess.
B. Killebrew
November 30th, 2010
9:52 pm
Pierre, Linda, And The Lakeside Person That Mentioned Pleasantdale:
One thing we have to remember is that most of the high school boundaries in North DeKalb are shaped the way they are due to closing schools and combining zones.
Most of Henderson High’s Zone went to Lakeside which is why Lakeside High’s Zone now stretches so far to the northeast (Pleasantdale/Evandale were prime Henderson High territory). Cross Key High’s Zone is really a combination with the former Sequoyah High Zone. And then there’s Druid Hills and Shamrock.
Druid Hills, Lakeside, Tucker, Henderson, and Shamrock were all involved in a major redistricting and school closing that took place in the late 90’s (not too long ago). Any of the schools could have been closed. There are reasons why Henderson and Shamrock closed (instead of the others) which I can go into later.
And for the record, parts of Henderson and Shamrock also became part of the Tucker zone, and parts of Shamrock became part of the Lakeside zone as well.
Though I do think there has been significant gerrymandering (the Fernbank/Medlock issue is a prime example), we have still have to make sure we know the full history before making statements and judgements.
B. Killebrew
November 30th, 2010
9:58 pm
Another thing–
It might also be helpful to look at the school boundaries of other school systems. DeKalbites/DeKalbians might then realize that DeKalb’s boundaries are not as much of a “mess” as some seem to think.
The major problem I see is where Stone Mountain Middle School is located (it was originally supposed to be Tucker Middle, but the Tucker community lobbied for a site closer to their town center–and succeeded. But, then DCSS decided to use the site for a new Stone Mountain Middle School instead. Kids in the Tucker district {Idlewood} drive right by SMMS in order to get to TMS…!)
B. Killebrew
November 30th, 2010
9:58 pm
@pierre…
No problem!
Linda
November 30th, 2010
10:00 pm
B. Killebrew – I’m aware of the background story on why the school attendance areas are drawn the way they are, thanks. That doesn’t make it right. Had a full range redistricting taken place when those high schools became middle schools, perhaps this wouldn’t be painful now. It’s all bs politics when it should be logistics, plain and simple.
B. Killebrew
November 30th, 2010
10:09 pm
@Linda…
You are right on all points (there should have been a full range of redistricting, no politics, and decisions based on logistics). I just want to make sure everyone on here is clear about the history, etc, etc.
However, you do have your kids in private school. Not good.
Dekalbite
December 1st, 2010
12:13 am
I taught in DeKalb for almost 40 years and lived in the Northlake area for almost 30 years so I’m well aware of where the “mess” of gerrymandered zones comes from. BTW I taught for a decade at Fernbank and also at Medlock for a number of years (and many other schools) so I know all too well the politics of that situation. For example, the Tobie Grant public housing project (Scottdale area) zoned into Medlock as Pierre1852 speculated is a hangover from the 1969 DCSS desegregation case.
DCSS has long needed to address redistricting. Much of what has happened in DCSS is “don’t ask, don’t tell”. In other words, the high achieving schools do not rock the boat, they pay the highest taxes, and the BOE can do as they please as long as they leave these schools alone. Parents in these schools hire extra faculty, paint the schools, install technology and do all the things that the DCSS administration should be doing for all students. It’s no coincidence that the most responses regarding redistricting come from the highest achieving schools. They have had the luxury of not being involved in the problems of the school system that most students and parents face. This has become up close and personal so they will organize to preserve the status quo.
B. Killebrew
December 1st, 2010
12:40 am
@DeKalbite…
My post was not directed at you. I used “DeKalbites/DeKalbians” as a way to designate citizens in or associated with DeKalb County (I did quickly get “DeKalbite” from quickly looking at your screen name, however).
Yes, the “mess” of school districting in DeKalb is complicated and multi-faceted.
MMM
December 1st, 2010
10:20 am
If you have taken the time to understand how AYP is calculated, particularly as it pertains to “ethnic subgroupings” you may reevaluate what is and is not a great schools. Diverse schools, with a high number of students who’s family’s primary language is not English, present a challenge to which schools like Fernbank are immune. In this model the homogenized school should excel. To not factor this into the equation is remiss.
Through over priced housing and political influence Fernbank residence have built their own little Alpharetta in town. If (and I’m sure this would NEVER happen) a section 8 housing development were redistricted to Fernbank, their pristine reputation would soon tarnish.
DCSS, let the Fernbank/Atlanpharetta district lines stand. My child benefits from diversity which is something standardize tests can’t measure.
An American Patriot
December 3rd, 2010
8:43 am
DeKalb School Parents, be very afraid……those idiots running DCSS are not above doing anything to create chaos simply because they are in the majority and have the mentality…..”we can do what we want to”. A case in point……a very “high” person at DHHS recently said…..”we have students here that live in the shadow of Clarkston High School”……of course you know that the Clarkston area has many, many international students so, what that says to me is that they are moving these students around to equalize the student population as regards to international students. Again, “They can do anything they want to”, and they will unless you parents that really care rise up and fight with all your might……you are in the minority so you have to fight harder and smarter.