White flight: Are parents running to less successful schools?
Many suburbanites on this blog contend that they would never send their children to city of Atlanta or DeKalb schools and that’s why they now live in Forsyth or Cobb.
Here is an interesting response to that common assertion from a reader who looked at test data that suggests the state’s highest achieving white students are in metro systems, including Atlanta , Decatur, Marietta and DeKalb.
Take a look at this reader’s research:
I have been crunching some numbers from the state DOE report cards and thought I might share with you some interesting results.
In response to the constant attacks on the quality of schooling offered by APS in particular and urban public schools in general, I have often read or heard comments (many by your blog commenters) that they would never consider sending their own children to Atlanta schools and/or that they have moved out of the city to the suburbs rather than do so.
What continues to interest me, particularly when addressing the subject of “white flight” from Atlanta and certain other urban systems, is how little evidentiary basis there is to back up most of these decisions, particularly when made by middle or upper-middle class white parents.
So I decided to try to address the question: “Based on available data, which Georgia school districts provide the best educational results for white students?”
I assumed, for purposes of this exercise, that SAT scores provide the best proxy available for “educational end product.” (For obvious reasons, I decided not to use CRCT scores or graduation rates, which many would contend are highly suspect).
If white flight out of Atlanta schools were to make rational sense, would not one expect that SAT scores for white students in suburban systems would greatly outstrip their Atlanta counterparts who are “left behind” in such a failed system? [Caveat: The state web site makes it impossible to show all individual district subgroup SAT scores at one time, so I have had to go district-by-district and have not looked at every district in the state, but am prepared to do so if you find this topic interesting enough to write about. Also, the DOE website does not provide a breakdown by family income level, so comparisons of scores on that basis cannot be done.]
My preliminary review shows as follows:
In 2008-09 (the most recent data included at the state website), the Georgia system with the highest average SAT scores (math and verbal) for its white students appears to be Decatur City (1203); second is Atlanta City (1165); third is Marietta City (1150); and fourth is DeKalb County (1145).
For 2007-08, the top four appear to have been (1) Atlanta (1174); (2) Decatur (1166); (3) DeKalb (1136); and (4) Fulton County (1108). The statewide SAT average for all white students was 1042 in 2008-09 and 1040 in 2007-08
I know from prior discussions with many white parents (especially those whose children do not attend APS schools) that these results will strike some as unbelievable — that white students in Atlanta, Decatur and DeKalb public schools perform better on SATs than white students in Fulton, Cobb, Gwinnett, Cherokee, Fayette, Forsyth and possibly (probably?) every other system in the state of Georgia!
Now, this data certainly do not prove that APS, Decatur and DeKalb are doing a “better job” or providing a “better education” to their white students than every other district in the state — far from it. What is equally or more likely is that other critical demographic factors at play (especially parent education and income levels) are more favorable for white students in those districts than in most others.
Similarly, demographic factors (especially high poverty rates) among its black students probably skews the SAT scores for those APS and DeKalb students in the opposite direction.
What the data do suggest, however, is that middle class parents (white or minority) who conclude – based only on a school’s or a system’s overall test scores – that they should buy their houses in another district or send their kids to private schools rather than APS (or DeKalb or Decatur) may only be fooling themselves about the perceived benefits for their own children.
I do believe that there are some gross misconceptions out there about how well or poorly some systems (especially APS) are doing in educating students, and that your column would be a great place to show that at least some of those misconceptions are not supported by any data.
By Maureen Downey, AJC Get Schooled blog
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234 comments Add your comment
Lori
November 19th, 2010
8:21 am
InHonestTerms…..The media and record labels have destroyed and entire culture???? Uh, no, the culture itself did that. Lack of parenting skills did that. I agree with MidGATeacher. It is the culture itself that I don’t like my son to be around, but it isn’t just the kids. Its the parents. I spent a short time teaching in Clayton County. I was disgusted. The students were disrespectful, loud and vulgar. Everything in my classroom that wasn’t locked up or glued down was stolen. When you called home to the parents to discuss their kids behavior, all you got were excuses. Even the principal himself (who was Black) actually told me when I was hired “These are minority students and they can’t be expected to behave as well as non-minority students”. WHAAAA??? I don’t care who or what you are, all kids are born with a clean slate. They CAN behave if they are taught to behave. But they didn’t because their whole culture allows it.
howrude
November 19th, 2010
8:21 am
The writer uses scores as data, but doesn’t mention other variables that affect those scores. How many students in suburban schools actually take the test versus inner-city? What is the demographic graduation rate amongst races. You only use a small portion of the data available to you to state your case. No logical conclusion can be drawn here. Nothing to see. Move on please.
rural hs teacher
November 19th, 2010
8:24 am
As a rural high school teacher who lives intown, I agree 100% with midGA teacher. This post eloquently identifies the problems with urban schools that have ghetto culture, and also correctly identifies the difference between how suburban versus urban schools deal with problem students. By sending students to the local alternative schools, suburban schools not only improve the classroom environment for all students, but also improve the high school graduation rate. Our faculty was actually TOLD by a GA DOE representative that this was the best method to improve high school graduation rates and reduce the risk of not making AYP. A huge problem with urban high schools is that the problem students are not dealt with and these students prevent others from the benefit of a productive learning environment. The issue has absolutely NOTHING to do with black versus white but has everything to do with the GHETTO CULTURE. Those who embrace and propagate the ghetto culture drag the standards down for all. Some of the best students I have had the pleasure to teach are black, and yes, their parents moved out of DeKalb in order to remove their kids from the ghetto culture. They ended up graduating at the top of their class in an 85% white school.
Mitzymy
November 19th, 2010
8:25 am
Many whites who flee to the suburbs find that blacks can now afford to move there too. Thus bringing what they ran from to the house next door or down the street. It is parents and their involvement that holds the key. In my city, there were white kids who molested several younger athletes on a school bus. These white kids parents were attorneys, judges and upper eschelon business people, but their kids actions were thug like. This was in one of the richest cities in the country. I visited an inner city school and found the teacher uninvolved with the children, and they were running around the classroom as if they were on the play ground. The teacher paid no attention to them or what they were doing. It has been said that the teachers in the urban schools are there for the paycheck only, and on the day that I was there, it was true. I took my children out, and placed them elsewhere.
cracker
November 19th, 2010
8:27 am
i get it now. its the media and corporate greed that is the problem
Maureen Downey
November 19th, 2010
8:28 am
@howrude, He acknowledges those issues. His point was that the white parents who come on this blog and say they want the best for their kid so they would never enroll them in these urban systems ignore the fact that these systems have the state’s top performing white students in them. These systems work very well, he says, for such kids.
And that is true. But let me also agree with his point that the parents who choose these systems are often a factor. I live on a street with 19 houses, eight of which are owned by people who teach at the university level, three in medical schools. I have no neighbors without college degrees and most have graduate degrees. Their kids are programmed to do well in school and they do.
Maureen
jdl2
November 19th, 2010
8:29 am
My wife and I are both native Atlantans. Happily living in Cobb. I have to say that the very idea of trying to portray Atlanta city schools as better for “white” students, indicates that somebody, evidently, thinks that the metro area is predominately “white”. It is not. Question should be, what schools are best for all of our children. The results are clear, and have been for years. 1. Private 2: Cobb and North Fulton/Alpharetta. Get a life.
Dr NO
November 19th, 2010
8:31 am
“Many whites who flee to the suburbs find that blacks can now afford to move there too. Thus bringing what they ran from to the house next door or down the street.”
Im afraid you misunderstand. White flight from blacks isnt the issue neither is blacks moving in next door. White flight is getting away from the encroaching Ghetto, its mentality and its willing participants.
I give ya a C- for effort though.
williebkind
November 19th, 2010
8:34 am
My fellow citizens! If the parents or the kids do not want a great harvard education sobeit. We need mud makers, brick toters, ditch diggers, and material handlers. You need to stop telling your children it is bad to work in the fields or on a construction crew.
APS Teacher
November 19th, 2010
8:37 am
@ iRun- I worked in Buckhead. No, I would not send my kids to any APS school. The Lin/Morningside/Springdale Park/Jackson/Smith/et als are better than the southside schools, but they are still run by a corrupt and fundamentally incompetent system which places all its emphasis on testing and not learning.
Dr. Proud Black Man
November 19th, 2010
8:38 am
White flight huh? Years ago during the Boston busing crisis the local station was interviewing the local “townies” about their feelings. One man pretty much summed it up for the rest of the “decent white folk” surrounding him; “we don’t want to live near Ni@@ers.” Myself personally I don’t feel that black children need to be sitting next to white children to receive a quality education. However TOO MANY of MY brothers and sisters have been HOODWINKED to believe differently.
http://www.amazon.com/Black-Lies-White-Truth-According/dp/0688151310
Maureen Downey
November 19th, 2010
8:40 am
@jdl2, How do you know privates are better since we have no data? I would agree that the Westminsters, Galloways and Lovetts produce strong graduates as their cost means that only very successful — and typically well educated — families can afford them. And public schools with similar demographics produce similar high achievers.
But the majority of private schools in Georgia are not in that category. There are some small private schools in this state that I suspect are not as good as some of the public ones.
Maureen
iRun
November 19th, 2010
8:49 am
@ APS Teacher -
You’re in for a big let down. ALL the schools are like that. All of them everywhere, not just Georgia. And not just public. I say that as a product of private schools (thought I graduated back in the very early 90s).
Larry's an Idiot ... Drugs anyone?
November 19th, 2010
8:49 am
Larry, guess which college/university has the most Black men working on Wall Street (actually trading, not selling hot dogs on the street)? Morehouse!
If you read or watched anything but FOX News (making an assumption about you that I’m sure is spot on!), you would know that Morehouse is consistently ranked among the nation’s best liberal arts colleges — black or white. And Morris Brown barely exists now (lost its accreditation a few years ago) which lets me know further how much of a surface-skimming, non-intellectual, tea party talking point spewing reprobate you really are. Actually, you’re not worth my time, so I’ll move on …
Interesting thoughts by the parent who did the research and wrote the piece. My two cents: You can get a good education just about anywhere, as long as there is true parental involvement. Schools with resources, sound leadership and good teachers can further enhance what goes on in the home. …. Yes, I have to admit, by and large, there is not enough quality parental involvement in terms of education, in the Black community (I’m Black and my kids attend South Fulton schools), and many of our parents allow their children to be influenced too much by the “gangsta,” “pants saggin’,” “improper English speaking” subculture that is present in the Black community. No getting around that.
But there are a GREAT many of us in the Black community who have NOTHING to do with that culture and don’t allow our kids to be overly-influenced by it …. just as there are a GREAT many number of white parents who have NOTHING to do with the culture of drugs (meth, heroine, etc.) that is a part of white suburbia. And please don’t deny that it. I had an interesting conversation with TWO white mothers recently, who said the “drug culture” in Forsyth County schools is completely out of hand. As a result, both have their kids in Gwinnett County high schools even though they live in Forsyth. Interesting indeed.
Mike the Original
November 19th, 2010
8:50 am
@rural hs teacher
“By sending students to the local alternative schools, suburban schools not only improve the classroom environment for all students, but also improve the high school graduation rate. Our faculty was actually TOLD by a GA DOE representative that this was the best method to improve high school graduation rates and reduce the risk of not making AYP”
I have been trying to call attention to this unethical practice for quite awhile. I would really like to email with you off line if possible. Perhaps Maureen could give you my email address if you were to contact her.
This cheating mess needs to stop!
Social Aspect
November 19th, 2010
8:52 am
There is a little more to it than just test scores as several have pointed out.
Try having a PTA where only 10 parents join and attend the meetings!
Yet, your child’s cousin in Forsyth County has a school carnival with games, rides and everyone attends.
You find yourself wanting that for your child.
It is tiring to be the room parent every year and the only one that shows up for the bake sale.
As my neighbor put it one day, “I can’t continue to carry this school on my back”. I understand how she feels.
Her child’s teacher asked all the parents to send in cereal boxes for a class project. Two weeks of notes home and only three boxes. She went around to all the neighbors collecting their cereal boxes for the class so all the kids could participate in the project.
The cause is part economics and part apathy.
iRun
November 19th, 2010
9:04 am
Interesting case study:
I met a woman who works for Paideia. She would receive discounted fees to send her children there. She lived in City of Decatur. She and her husband were (are) fairly affluent and could afford Paideia with or without the discount, according to her. But instead she sent them to City of Decatur because (1) her high property taxes were going to be paid no matter what, and (2) her children would receive an excellent education at City of Decatur schools, and (3) she and her husband felt they could put the money they’d spend on private school tuition towards a 529 or other savings for college.
Very few Candler Park residents send their children to private schools. Mary Lin is literally 2 streets south of Paideia but we don’t send our kids there (some may, but most don’t). Because it’s just not necessary. There is no added benefit for the cost.
And I am not, by any means, knocking Paideia. It’s a very fine school. But so is Mary Lin.
As for “teaching to the test”, I said before that all the schools do it. I stand by that. We all may feel that our child’s particular teacher takes interest in his/her class. That might be true while also teaching to the test. Teachers are people and they respond positively or negatively to their classroom depending on the people in it. It stands to reason, in any good school the teacher will respond to your child if you put forth action. For instance, my child is in the 4th grade. Part of his homework is to read for 30 minutes every night. They are required to read at least 2 books a month and they take Accelerated Reader tests on the books they read. The AR scores aren’t used for anything other than gauging how much the student is reading and how advanced the reading material is (the more advanced the book the more points it’s worth). The kids themselves have responded by trying to outdo each other in points. My very own son read “Watership Down” for 25 AR points. Now he’s set out to read the entire Harry Potter series, then he wants to read Lord of the Rings.
I won’t sit here and tell you my own son’s reading accomplishments are because of Mary Lin and their 30 minute reading requirement. It’s because my husband and I have fostered reading in our household. There is zero television during the school week and on the weekends it’s limited to after dark.
But I will sit here and tell you that my neighborhood is filled with parents like us, so the neighborhood is filled with kids like my son, so is the school.
As I said, put down the broad brush and choke down your fear. And certainly don’t worry about the fate of my son, if you were so inclined.
I won’t say more because people who disagree will always disagree. You never change minds on a blog. Minds only change as a result of repeated exposure to reality. And a blog ain’t it.
But I’m willing to bet everyone on here are decent people who want the best for their kids. That alone assures they will receive it. There’s no need to defend your actions.
APS Teacher
November 19th, 2010
9:12 am
@ iRun- I’ve been teaching for a long time and have taught in a lot of places. Nowhere else even approaches the test obsession of the Atlanta Public School. Nowhere. Standardized testing is a craze right now and it is a problem to greater or lesser degrees everywhere. But Atlanta Public Schools is far away the worst of anywhere I’ve ever seen- in Georgia, out of Georgia, in public, and in private.
Bill
November 19th, 2010
9:13 am
John, Yes, comparing urban and suburban blacks would be informative as well. However, beyond that I think it is your logic that is flawed. You argue that you cannot compare white suburban students with white urban students to make this point. However that comparison is exactly the point. The article does not try to do anything more than that.
This discussion of urban, suburban and rural schools in Georgia to determine which is best (or worst) is widely off the mark. Is the goal really to be the best school in the worst state? Wouldn’t we do better if we made a concerted effort to improve ALL the schools? I would prefer that my children go to an average school in a great educational state, than a good school in a lousy educational state.
An American Patriot
November 19th, 2010
9:16 am
@Maureen – There are some small private schools in this state that I suspect are not as good as some of the public ones.
Maureen, as a citizen of Decatur and a product of their school system, it is my belief that the CSD is the best public school system in the State of Georgia; however, as good as it is, it does not even begin to compare to a private school such as Woodward Academy……Woodward is at such a higher level, it’s actually astounding.
Bill
November 19th, 2010
9:23 am
Patriot,
Nothing astounding about it (it is a great school).
1) Great inputs – as many here have pointed out, the economic and educational level of parents is the best predictor of student success. Woodward, as well as Westminster and others, get to select from the best of these, with a handful of high performing lower income students on scholarship. They are not required to take any students they don’t want.
2) Last I knew, they typically charge $20,000 – $30,000 per student per year, while public schools spend about $12,000. Visit Westminster, and you will see classrooms the size of you living room. That is all you need for a class size of 7.
3) What is amazing is that public schools do as well as they do after having many of the best students siphoned off, and half the money to spend. Think about the positive effect that these private school students could have on the public school systems. It would improve the educational environment, and perhaps create a critical mass for improvement.
Maureen Downey
November 19th, 2010
9:24 am
@An American, I certainly consider Woodward a strong school. Is it or any other private better than every public? If you had a child who went through Decatur or APS or Cobb and was lucky enough to get all strong teachers, I think that child has had an unparalleled education, equal to that of any private school.
Now, there are other things that the top privates offer, including facilities, sports and clubs, that the public schools cannot match. As I have noted before, I had a daughter who attended a private high school on a full academic scholarship. She and her younger brother, who attended a public high school, had similar academic experiences, but she was able to do sailing, flying, crew, volleyball, fencing and marksmanship through her school’s sports and club offerings and spend an entire summer living with a family in France to perfect her language skills.
That is the edge that she received at a private academy, but the cost, if I were paying it, would have been $33,000 a year. That is what underwrites all those cool extras.
Maureen
Bill
November 19th, 2010
9:26 am
We all want what is best for our kids. Many parents choose private schools for this reason, and I respect that. However, I think it is a narrow view. Yes your student will get all the resources they need to succeed. But, there are other lessons they may not learn there. On the other hand, think about the benefits to your child if we have a more educated society, and the positive effect your child could have on public schools.
Dr. Craig Spinks /Augusta
November 19th, 2010
9:27 am
(I)Run in his/her 8:18 AM post makes a critical point: “It’s the fate of poor kids of all races that needs attention.” And it’s the poor kids who want to become educated who need the most immediate attention.
Elizabeth
November 19th, 2010
9:29 am
“Less successful” as defined by what? Test scores? Test scores do not measure how effective a school is– not by themselves. When I taught in my first inner city school , I would have taken my child there without hesitation. We had superb teachers and an administration that did not tolerate disruption and “ghetto” behavior by ANY race. My second inner city school– I would never have sent my child there.Not because of the teachers or the test scores– but because “cultural diversity” meant tolerating rude, disrespectful kids who who had no respect for authority and did not care about doing work or behaving in school. I would never have exposed my daughter to a school in which learning was continually interrupted by students who chose to disrupt and an administration who did not support the teachers. This is not a racial issue, it is a cultural/ behavioral issue. No one’s “culture” is so important that can be allowed to disrupt the school and /or classroom. If you do not believe it, do a study on how many upper/middle class Blacks also fled the “ghetto” schools for the same reasons. I have African American friends who did the same as I did.
mad_russian
November 19th, 2010
9:40 am
As an APS teacher, the primary issue is that the middle class has all but abandoned public education. Each of you are advocates for the needs of your children, so get involved and demand the best from teachers. I (and most of my colleagues) do everything I can to address the multiple needs of my students. I put politics aside, and do the one thing I do well, teach. I’m not worried about test scores as they don’t accurately portray a student;s ability to think critically. I teach the content and go beyond it the state standards. What we truly need is parent support and involvement at the school level. Ditching us because it’s easier is the reason why public education is suffering. Allowing politicians that are out of touch with the needs of our children to make the decision for you is the reason why these problems are occurring. Stop with the complaining and do something about it. All talk and no action, that’s the typical response from cowards that want to criticize rather than push change. We (students and teachers) need your support, not your criticism. It’s easy to drop down the race/culture card as the primary reason but the problems are bigger than that argument. This study is being shown to offer a perspective on the reasoning for parents placing their children in suburban schools. Education is a community issue, not a black and white issue. All citizens and residents have the right to a decent public education so they can become functional adults. We shouldn’t pick and choose our students to fatten our numbers. I teach all, some with more effort than others because I know that I’ll see them again and hear about their successes. Support education, don’t criticize it. It takes more effort to heal than to hurt. Put in the effort.
AlreadySheared
November 19th, 2010
9:41 am
It cracks me up – OTP folks don’t know what they don’t know.
Once upon a time, schools only reported their overall average test scores. Affluent, majority white schools consistently reported higher scores than majority black inner city schools. I’m not trying to play the race card, but pretty much across the board (CRCT, EOCT, SAT, etc) white kids score higher on tests than black kids. Then, George W. Bush’s “No Child Left Behind” forced all schools to “disaggregate” information by race, among other things.
My kids attended Morningside Elementary School (MES) in APS. One day I was talking schools with an OTP colleague, and he said in effect – “well yes, that’s fine, but what about middle school”?
I made a sucker bet with him that the disaggregated CRCT scores for white students at Inman Middle School (where my kids would go) were higher than where his kids went to middle school. I was correct.
I make the same assertion to all the readers of this blog. If you look at Inman’s scores for white kids for the 8th grade CRCT, they are likely higher than the scores for your neighborhood middle school’s scores.
http://reportcard2009.gaosa.org/(S(htsfim45tqvpu3v1jrdm1b55))/k12/reports.aspx?ID=761:1563&TestKey=c*8&TestType=qcc&CompareType=Parent
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Really amazed
November 19th, 2010
9:44 am
Guess I need to pull my children out of there very challenging private school to come over to APS to be able to move there B’s up to A’s and my son will now get an even higher SAT score!!! Thanks! Which school would you suggest? Magnet program, IB or just regular high school? He might have a chance at even being in the top 2%? Cause right now he probably isn’t even in the top 25% with all of the brainiacs from where he is attending now. So this will look better to colleges, right? Thanks so much for the article I am truly enlightened. Have been wondering what to do.
AlreadySheared
November 19th, 2010
9:52 am
@Really amazed:
Your sarcasm contains an element of truth. “They” say (don’t ask me who “they” are) that your high-achieving kid will have a much better chance of being admitted to a top-tier college from a ‘gritty, inner-city’ high school like Grady than from an elite private school.
Just don’t count on him being top 2% – the competition at Grady might be a lot tougher than you imagine.
iRun
November 19th, 2010
9:52 am
OK, you win, we APS parents lose. Who wants to meet me at the Candler Park Market @ noon to grab a sammy from the deli?
PC Rules
November 19th, 2010
9:52 am
A smart kid is going to be a smart kid wherever they go to school. Maybe “white flight” has more to do with safety than anything else. Have you walked down the hall of an urban high school recently?
Bill
November 19th, 2010
10:00 am
Amazed,
Actually, being one of the top students in and inner city school might look better to many colleges than being in the top 25% in an exclusive private school. Grady HS routinely sends kids to top schools, including the ivies.
Bill
November 19th, 2010
10:03 am
PC,
As a matter of fact, I am at Grady HS almost daily. I have never felt unsafe there, nor have my kids. I think that all of us judge our schools by what we know, and when our kids go there, we know a lot. We judge other schools by what we hear on the news, which means we don’t know so much (or we don’t pay attention to the right stuff).
fulldawg
November 19th, 2010
10:05 am
Boortz is highly entertaining, but I would not base my children’s education on his opinion. He appears to be a very unhappy person with always and axe to grind. WSB Radio should ask him to retire.
Former Springdale Park Elementary Parent
November 19th, 2010
10:17 am
Wow, this topic touched a nerve, didn’t it, Maureen? Kudos to MidGA Teacher (6:22 am) for speaking the truth–you are today’s Blog Hero!– and to InHonestTerms (8:04) for being the man Dr. PBM should be.
We, too, chose to live where we live for a specific elementary school and never intended for our children to attend an APS middle or high school. We decided long ago that even our generally well-regarded middle school (Inman) has too many thugs-in-training, and Grady HS? Forget about it. My children are not going to walk through metal detectors and past armed, uniformed police officers to get to their classrooms.
But we figured a good public elementary school would be a way to save 6 years’ worth of private school tuition per child (before exiting the system after 5th grade), and we still may try that route with our second child. I’m guessing a lot of other parents in our neighborhood may be following the same strategy…
There are oases of good in the scorched-earth desert that is APS (like Morningside Elementary and the wonderful principal there) but they are rare.
John Trotter comes off as way over the top on this blog a lot of times, but just about every post here validates what he’s always saying about disruptive kids in class. So long as those thugs-in-training remain a serious threat in APS middle and high schools, our children will never set foot in those buildings.
Angus
November 19th, 2010
10:19 am
It’s going to be interesting to see the effects of the demographic studies and subsequent redistricting for the in-town high schools.
What are you south-side Mary Lin parents going to do if you get redistricted from Grady to Maynard Jackson?
(I’m not saying it’s for sure going to happen, but it is a possibility)
An American Patriot
November 19th, 2010
10:26 am
Bill
November 19th, 2010
10:03 am
PC,
As a matter of fact, I am at Grady HS almost daily. I have never felt unsafe there, nor have my kids. I think that all of us judge our schools by what we know, and when our kids go there, we know a lot. We judge other schools by what we hear on the news, which means we don’t know so much (or we don’t pay attention to the right stuff).
Bill, you’re absolutely correct……Grady High School is probably the finest HS in the APS System and has always been that way even when it was “Boys High School” from it’s inception till the late forties when it combined with Tech High and changed it’s name to Grady High School. And you know what else, the entire Atlanta System, up until thirty five years ago, was a great, great school system. Bill, don’t let your guard down……Beverly is looking your way and wants to drag your school down to the level of the southside schools…..don’t let her, please
Dr. Proud Black Man
November 19th, 2010
10:28 am
@ Former Springdale Park Elementary Parent
“…and to InHonestTerms (8:04) for being the man Dr. PBM should be.”
Uncle Toms’ are less confrontational aren’t they?
Bill
November 19th, 2010
10:29 am
Springdale,
I would suggest you spend some time at Grady high school before you make your decision. It is too bad this blog was not last week, because Grady just hosted a huge debate tournament last weekend (over 400 students from 43 schools in three sates, plus over 200 coaches and judges). The tournament was so large, that we had to use all of the available space at both Grady and Inman. I was a good opportunity to see the best that this school has to offer.
Maggie's Daughter
November 19th, 2010
10:34 am
All six of the intown libs took the SAT. The real story is in the numbers Maureen.
Maureen Downey
November 19th, 2010
10:40 am
@Former Springdale, I know many outstanding Grady graduates and have always enjoyed visiting that school. I was in a history class there not long ago and the kids were brilliant. (It was a free form discussion, and it went far and wide, but the kids were well read and articulate.) I know some pretty protective parents who have their kids at Grady with no complaints. That doesn’t mean the school fits every kid, and I certainly believe that some kids need more serene settings than a 1,200-student public high school. If the parent can afford a smaller, more intimate private school, that’s great.
I also love Inman, which is a high achieving school in almost every measure possible.
This week I have been in two schools that are predominantly minority. The kids were smart, the halls were orderly, the teachers were great. Are there troublemakers in the mix? I would think so, although I didn’t see them.
Every school has its share of problem kids. Earlier I mentioned that my daughter went to a pricey private school on a scholarship. She had classmates kicked out for selling their prescription drugs. She had kids kicked out for stealing.
Do these kids dominate at either public or private schools? Not by a long shot.
I think parents are entitled to send their kids to private schools without apology or explanation, but this mythology that public schools are dangerous and academically inferior isn’t grounded in fact.
Maureen
Love conquers all
November 19th, 2010
10:41 am
Good parents of any race knows that parental involvement is one of the main keys in keeping our kids in a challenging school environment. Involvement in every phase of our childrens lives is what is most important here because bad apples comes in all colors, shapes and sizes.
Maureen Downey
November 19th, 2010
10:41 am
@Maggie, Look at the SAT participation numbers for Decatur, Marietta and APS. I think a lot more than six kids took the test.
Maureen
RJ
November 19th, 2010
10:46 am
@Dr NO, Morehouse is no more of a diploma mill than UGA or Georgia Tech. My cousin graduated from Morehouse and is now a highly successful surgeon. As a former Spelman professor, I can assure you that the curriculum is rigorous. These schools have produced some of the most successful African Americans in the nation.
@APS Teacher, I’m not only a teacher in APS as well, but I’m also a graduate. Yes, I attended Buckhead schools and would gladly send my kids to those same schools. Actually, I wish I could get them in right now.
The real issue is socio-economics. Middle class black and white kids will score better on the SAT than poorer children. This is less about race and more about money…
Former Springdale Park Elementary Parent
November 19th, 2010
10:47 am
@ Bill:
I have visited Grady four times in the course of my regular work, and gotten a very good look at (in particular) the behavior of the students on campus and right under the noses of the teachers and cops…
Should I be grateful there are so many uniformed officers around, or appalled that they’re necessary?
We need to get something straight. There’s “good by APS standards,” which means good enough for one of the statistically worst-performing districts in one of the worst-performing states in the country –and then there’s Really, Truly Good. This is a distinction many of us who have lived and worked elsewhere understand.
I respect the decision of any parent who sends their children to Inman and Grady. God bless you for fighting the good fight, and I mean that.
But these schools do not come close to meeting the standard I set for my own children. Academically, socially, school leadership, school discipline–on all these points and more, these schools fail–but especially on the issue of discipline.
APS Teacher
November 19th, 2010
10:48 am
@iRun-
No can do- I won’t make it to Candler Park and back in 20 minutes. But that is a favorite Saturday lunch place for me.
Maureen Downey
November 19th, 2010
10:49 am
@RJ. I wouldn’t waste time responding to anyone disparaging Morehouse. The college’s stellar reputation speaks for itself. Such comments are idiotic.
Maureen
ChristineH
November 19th, 2010
10:49 am
We moved from Sandy Springs to East Cobb when my son was in Kindergarten due to weekly issues in his classroom. Remember this is Kindergarten! He was punched in the back, had a pencil stabbed into his arm (by the Student of the Week) and there was a fist fight…in Kindergarten. This was the last straw.
While touring our new school we noticed how quiet it was while the students were in the halls. The teachers had control over the students. Yes, it is predominately white, which we wish it wasn’t. I don’t think this has anything to do with the control it has to do with the parents.
While I enjoy reading these blogs and parents, teachers, media discussing our Georgia schools…where is the action? How about a panel with the Governor and our elected officials? Superintendents? They should be embarrassed of our test scores not announcing them with chests puffed.
How would our Georgia students perform in the Connecticut or Massachusetts school systems?
People, stop arguing locally and ban together to help our children compete globally!
An American Patriot
November 19th, 2010
10:52 am
Maureen, I beg to differ……all school have a certain amount of discipline and other types of problems….even CSD
however, in my opinion, the educational opportunities in the top private schools in Georgia far exceed anything you could expect in any public school in Georgia. Now, there are public school systems in the northeast part of our country that are exceptional and rival the private schools opportunities……snow anyone?
Former Springdale Park Elementary Parent
November 19th, 2010
10:52 am
@ Maureen–your experience at Grady and mine were vastly different. Maybe it’s because I was allowed to move through the school unaccompanied?