Paying teachers by degrees: Georgia cuts back
The debate over the value of advanced degrees for teachers is not new. In 1933, Harvard president Abbott Lawrence Lowell contributed one of the most memorable critiques when he denigrated his own university’s graduate school of education as a “kitten that ought to be drowned.”
Last year, Georgia spent $880 million compensating teachers for advanced degrees, according to Kelly Henson, who heads the state’s Professional Standards Commission, which oversees teacher credentials.
Only 10.4 percent of those Georgia teachers earned degrees in core subjects, such as math or science. Fourteen percent earned them in early childhood, and 22 percent got them in related areas, including teaching and learning or curriculum and instruction.
But 31 percent of Georgia teachers obtained advanced degrees in a program that a national study blasted as the weakest — educational leadership. “Educating School Leaders,” a four-year study of the nation’s 1,206 colleges and schools of education, found that the educational leadership programs ranged from inadequate to appalling.
Earlier this year, I attended a hearing (and wrote about it here ) where Henson told the teachers present, “Your colleagues are taking the path of least resistance to get a pay raise. They are not getting degrees in the areas in which they teach. They are getting the easiest and most convenient degrees. They are getting degrees for the raise and not for how much it will impact their performance.”
“We are getting a small return on our investment, but we are not getting an $880 million return,” Henson said. “Too many of those degrees are out-of-field and don’t contribute to improved student performance.”
A RAND analysis of student performance in 44 states between 1990 and 1996 concluded that compensating teachers for master’s degrees “is arguably one of the least-efficient expenditures in education.”
In their study of high quality teachers, researchers Eric A. Hanushek and Steven G. Rivkin concluded: “Perhaps most remarkable is the finding that a master’s degree has no systematic relationship to teacher quality as measured by student outcomes. This immediately raises a number of issues for policy, because advanced degrees invariably lead to higher teacher salaries and because advanced degrees are required for full certification in a number of states. Indeed, more than half of current teachers in the U.S. have a master’s degree or more.”
So, why keep rewarding teachers for advanced degrees? The PSC is making deeper changes now that will limit the practice and the AJC wants to talk to teachers about it: Here is a note from my colleague:
Staff writer Nancy Badertscher wants to speak to teachers who are have, now or are planning to enroll in advanced degree programs and have an opinion on the Georgia Professional Standards Commission’s decision to require that the degree be in the professional’s immediate field and from only recognized institutions. If you can help, please email her asap at nbadertscher@ajc.com. She wants to speak with people who don’t mind being quoted and would be willing to be photographed.
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178 comments Add your comment
Dr. Tim
November 12th, 2010
8:50 am
As a person who holds a BA in History and an M. Ed. (Master of Education), as well as a law degree (Juris Doctor), I can tell you that the M. Ed. was the least rigorous of all of my educational experiences, and I receoived it from a highly respected college. When states (including Georgia) started paying teachers for advanced degrees. the colleges got dollar signs in their eyes and opened up hundred of “Schools of Education” to cater to the tide of teachers working on Masters’ degrees. The result? A Masters degree that was easily obtained and represented very, very little actual achivmet.
k teacher
November 12th, 2010
8:55 am
I studied for my advanced degree at Mercer University and the work was FAR from inadequate or appalling.
I do feel, however, that the raise that goes along with it should only come if it is in your field such as a leadership degree should only be paid to one in leadership, a early childhood Master’s in teaching degree should only be given if in early childhood, etc. No degree should receive extra pay if it is in interior design, or divinity, or whatever.
BA/MA in History
November 12th, 2010
8:58 am
Some of the dumbest people who ever put on shoes are now walking around with internet doctorates and specialist degrees because Georgia pays them for it. I’ve taught for 23 years and never even got an education degree. They’ve been cheapened.
V for Vendetta
November 12th, 2010
9:04 am
I have an undergrad in Journalism from UGA. I have an MEd in English education, and I am currently working on an EdS in Educational Psychology focusing on gifted and talented learners. I can say, without a doubt, that the classes offered by UGA are rigorous, beneficial, and comprehensive. They are taught by some of the most prominent educators in the field, professors who are without peer in this country or any other. I KNOW I have become a better teacher because of my time in these programs; they have been invaluable to the students I teach.
That having been said . . .
I don’t disagree with the PSC’s decision–not one bit. There are a LOT of teachers out there with MEds from Eastern Lutheran College of Backwoods Handwashing, or something along those lines. Some have even obtained EdS degrees from such institutes. It angers me that in this time of economic uncertainty and, let’s face it, flat out despair my efforts to professionally improve myself are under attack because some teachers would rather take the easy way out. Tightening the requirements for advanced degrees has been a long time coming. If we want our profession to get the respect it deserves, I think it’s high team we require degree seekers to EARN that respect.
Rigorous advanced degrees and the firing of pi$$ poor teachers would go a long way to restoring the public’s view of teaching and ending the debate over pay for performance. I don’t mind working my tail off if it makes me better and nets me a little more money at the end of the day; however, I don’t understand why so many teachers think they shouldn’t have to bust their butts for such benefits. It’s ridiculous.
Wide Awake
November 12th, 2010
9:17 am
I agree with the online degrees being absurd … they should be considered null and void! I know of several teachers that have these degrees and little effort was put into them, they were obtained purely for the potential pay increase.
I know a particular teacher that received her education docoerate online with little effort, all for the pay increase and promise to be an AP. This dingbat was pushed through the Gwinnet prgram and was an AP in no less than a year. Her teaching skills were subpar as well as her personal life. Now she is considered good enough to be an AP because she has an online “doctorate? I think NOT!
Dr NO
November 12th, 2010
9:19 am
Most degrees just prove someone was able to show up for class and do some homework for 4 addl years. Give me a high school grad thats a go-getter over a lazy college entitlement minded egghead any day.
Future Teacher
November 12th, 2010
9:26 am
It makes sense to only pay extra if the advanced degree matches the subject taught, or if the degree is relevant to the job. For example, math teachers get paid extra for advanced degrees in math education. Unless you are an admin or plan on becoming one soon, educational leadership degrees are unnecessary. By the way, someone please explain the usefulness of a Master’s in curriculum design, teaching/learning, instruction, etc. I get why someone would get an advanced degree in educational psychology but not those.
Also, I think that to eliminate paying for degrees from BS schools, the PSC should have a list of reputable schools from which they will accept (relevant) advanced degrees. For example, UGA and GSU would make the cut; all the backwoods, online, for-profit schools would not.
LaLaLa
November 12th, 2010
9:28 am
Hate to tell you, V for Vendetta, but I have friends on faculty in the UGA college of ed (in Ed Psych in fact) who think that your degree program in “gifted” is a joke. Best of luck to you, anyway, maybe you can some inroads into taming the insane effort to label all the privileged kids in the US as gifted…
naturedude
November 12th, 2010
9:29 am
There is nothing wrong with an online degree, depending upon the field, and the University offering it. I’m currently earning a maste’s in public policy/administration from Northwestern, and I would welcome any of you to do some of the coursework I have had to do in the pursuit of this degree. That being said, I do fully agree and have listened to colleagues brag about how easy M.eds and EdDs are to get. One principal told me that if you pay the money and put in the time you can get an EdD very easily. A current colleague brags how his one day a week EdD program is simple. Between his masters, specialist, and now EdD, he claims he has never written more than a four page paper. On average I do this at least twice a week in my program on top of an average of 300+ pages a week read, and once a month I have a 15-25 page project paper that I usually must write.
While I was calculating county revenue forecasting for a budget and finance class, my neighbor was complaining to my wife about all the “articles” she had to read for her early childhood masters program.
On another note, educational leadership programs require zero public administration coursework, which I find apalling as these people often end up with control of millions of taxpayer dollars, but have no training in administrative best practices…only in what other educational “leaders” say is good.
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Jovan Miles
November 12th, 2010
9:37 am
I have been in the teaching profession for 6 years. I hold an undergraduate degree in Business from Georgia State University and a Master’s Degree from GSU’s college of education in Educational Research.
I see incredible value in rewarding teachers with pay increases for advanced degrees in some out-of-field or non certificate fields because the teachers who obtain these degrees can add value to their respective campuses by brining more than just subject content knowledge into the building.
If the GAPSC limits the degrees which are eligible for pay raises too severely then I fear that real scholars and educators will abandon k12 for jobs on the university level and/or the private sector.
I am currently seeking a PhD in Research, Measurement, and Statistics from GSU. I teach mathematics so I suppose the degree is closely related to my current field. However, I think the greater value in my having this degree is the value I will be able to add to any K12 school with my experience in research design and statistical analysis, particularly with regard to testing and educational reforms.
Shouldn’t I and others like me be compensated for that ?
What's best for kids?
November 12th, 2010
9:38 am
If the state of Georgia starts taking away pay for advanced degrees, the people in charge will be paying a lot more in lawyers’ fees.
Lala
November 12th, 2010
9:39 am
Can someone clarify if this is only for LEADERSHIP? If I have a masters in English but am TEACHING in K-5 school will I still get paid on the T5 salary schedule?
Attentive Parent
November 12th, 2010
9:44 am
It’s not just the online degrees or the no-name schools. Vanderbilt offers an educational leadership Ed.D with very little class time and the so-called capstone project is an assigned non-academic topic that is prepared by a group.
Each member of the group then gets to call themselves “Doctor”, gets a pay raise, and unless their superiors are paying a lot of attention, additional responsibility. What a scam.
It basically amounts to wanting those who have been properly indoctrinated to be in a leadership position so they can then implement bad but lucrative ideas.
Plus how contemptuous of academic content is someone likely to be who gets to call themselves “Doctor” because they were given a degree with little demonstration of genuine knowledge or skills. What kind of boss are they likely to be?
mystery poster
November 12th, 2010
9:44 am
If we want to be one of the “smart states,” we have to do what the “smart states” do. Most of them REQUIRE masters degrees in order to teach.
point well taken
November 12th, 2010
9:45 am
from what i understand; its a done deal, if you have your advanced degree you are “grandfathered in”; but your next degree has to be in the related field that you teach to get the next step
Retired Educator
November 12th, 2010
9:48 am
I think that even with the growth of technology, some people have a disdain for its effectiveness. That says to me that you feel that one can only get a “good” education if they sit in a classroom. This is a myth. While the accessibility for online study was after my time, I don’t discount it just because it is online. I personally feel that it is much more rigorous and requires a discipline that many people just don’t have.
This option has allow people who could not otherwise study because of obligations and circumstances that prohibit them from doing so. I know people who studied online, and today, most universities have courses that are only offered online, but are required. It is not as easy as many seem to think, and I feel the bias is mainly because people are very much behind the times on this option.
Most universities, of all caliber, offer online study. Many of the people speaking on this are not even computer savvy. May I suggest that before you discount it as just a joke, that everyone choose a university and actually study online, and then come back and share your evaluation as to whether it is just a sneeze or not. I thinks that the more professional way to judge, rather than a biased feeling. Studying online doesn’t allow you to bring into play all your issues. Either you perform or you lose.
During my employment years, I taught several course at GSU, and let me tell you, the adult drama of why you didn’t or couldn’t do what was required of you was mind boggling. The baby was sick…I missed my ride…I didn’t understand this or that…I got caught in traffic…you name it, the drama was profuse. Online, you do it or you fail.
Don’t be too quick to judge unless you’ve been there and done that.
(I’m not going to proof this post. LOL)
Retired Educator
November 12th, 2010
9:50 am
WOW, I didn’t post that twice. I don’t know how that happened.
Yankee Prof
November 12th, 2010
9:57 am
I’m in a position where one of my responsibilities includes reviewing applicants for part-time faculty positions. I have lost track of the number of applications I’ve seen where the candidate has taught at the elementary or middle school level for five or six years, has earned an online master’s degree in Educational Leadership (and is sometimes already well along the path to their online doctorate!), and now believes themselves ready to teach at the college level. Never mind that their “advanced degree” did not include a single graduate-level course in the subject for which they are applying to teach.
It’s disheartening, frankly. Obviously, we don’t hire these applicants, but I have kids in public school. In fact, when I met son’s first grade teacher a number of years back and she found out that I hold a doctorate, she told me she was finishing work on her own doctorate. When I asked her what she was writing her dissertation on, she told me that her program didn’t require “a big paper” for the degree. Upon further inquiry, I discovered that she was enrolled in an online program in Educational Leadership.
I encourage the Professional Standards Commission to enact firm guidelines that reward the few who honestly seek out challenging, authentic advanced degree programs in their field while protecting Georgia students and tax payers from those who, by pursuing empty degrees from online diploma mills, drain precious resources for their personal gain.
Pluto
November 12th, 2010
9:57 am
@ LaLaLa Ditto. When everyone is crowned as “gifted” then none are gifted. My class rosters are full of “gifted” labeled students that are no more gifted than my dog. I think at some point the student must have jumped and flapped their arms at the same time and the gifted coordinator must have seen this? If a “gifted” student is failing half or more of their core course load can we demote them or something??
oldtimer
November 12th, 2010
9:58 am
My problem with many degrees now days is no thesis, no doctorate, do defense of either, no orals… The rigor is just not there..And I am not talking about NWestern….
oldtimer
November 12th, 2010
10:01 am
My husband once had a job applicant..not in education….with a “Master’s” in Life Experience from an on line university. He would not pay her for that degree as the school was not accredited by any known association…..
Maureen Downey
November 12th, 2010
10:11 am
@Retired, I took the extra one down.
Maureen
WOW
November 12th, 2010
10:15 am
@ Retired Educator
You just admitted that you did not get your degree(s) online, yet you seem to be a huge proponent of the online methodology stating that they are difficult, time consuming and therefore most certainly valid. Really?
Hitting the submit button twice = 2 postings. Seems you know little about computer technology!
Mad mommy
November 12th, 2010
10:25 am
With the dismal state of education across our country (not just here in GA), you would think school systems would be reluctant to accept these online degrees instead of just accepting them at face value. The examples that I consistently hear of, even the many here on this particular blog, tell a potential horror story of what is going on in our classrooms. Online degrees spike in umbers, yet our overall education system continues to errode!
This is mad!
Principal Teacher
November 12th, 2010
10:31 am
I actually have a doctorate from UGA in Ed. Leadership and I have to say that it was was rigorous and my dissertation was well over 300 pages of very detailed and applicable research performed on a national level. I drove to real classes two or three times a week on top of 60+ hours a week working. I refused to do the Lincoln Memorial, NOVA etc. garbage that so many of my so-called peers did at that time because I actually wanted to further my knowledge and enhance my competency regarding my job, not just get the pay raise. Since then the number of these happy meal degrees has skyrocketed.
It irks me to no end over the last few years to watch other ‘leaders’ go one Saturday a month, a couple of weeks in Florida a year or sit at their computer in their PJs and ‘earn’ the same degree and opportunities that I busted my hump to obtain.
This is a huge problem in education. These diploma mills have watered down the talent pool to no end and our organizations are suffering mightily for it. In my opinion the State should probably retroactively stop recognizing these fast food schools and happy meal degrees altogether. If someone is not willing to spend the effort then they don’t deserve the degree.
Let’s not throw those of us that worked our rear ends off under the bus to thought. If Ed Leadership programs have become watered down at the real Universities it is only in order to attempt to stay competitive with the fast food schools. Get rid of the diploma mills and the quality and rigor will return to those that are left.
Principal Teacher
November 12th, 2010
10:33 am
“to thought’ should be “too though” – stupid predictive text!
TinaTeach
November 12th, 2010
10:34 am
I was waiting for this article to come out so I would know what degree I could pursue, still get a raise, and not leave the classroom. I love to teach and don’t really want to become an AP or anything like that. I’m happy to say I finally found a program online, through an accredited university, that deals with my subject area of French (MATL). Now I just have to take the GRE which I am dreading.
I really do agree with the GPSC. It onlt makes sense to pay for those degrees that can be applied to the classroom. I know too many teachers that have degrees from “diploma mills” and barely did any work to get them. I also have collegues who got their degree in the their area of focus. They put in long hours, became better informed teachers and they now get paid the same as those who put in no work and did not improve at all!
Grandfathering them in is silly but necessary to avoid lawsuits but it really should take effect now, not mid-July 2011. That give too many people who want that easy degree time to get into a program. Let’s stop them now, not later!
Retired Educator
November 12th, 2010
10:34 am
@WOW As you see it, as you said absolutely nothing.
TinaTeach
November 12th, 2010
10:36 am
onlt= only! Sorry!
Lynn
November 12th, 2010
10:42 am
Does it even matter? Teachers who get advanced degrees no matter what area dont even have equality with other fields. A person with a Masters in Math, Science or even Special Education might see a jump of 2500-4500. That would mean they are making around 47,000 with a Masters. DO people with MSW’s, MS in Psychology. First, if you paid teachers what they were worth they would have never had to go get these wastefull degrees in order to make a decent salary. A Teacher should start at 50,000 across the board and then this would take care of this problem. Starting a salary off at 50,000 would ensure a teacher wouldn’t have to work another part time job, could live comfortably, afford the school supplies not supplied by schools etc. How can anyone live on 35,000 with a BA in Atlanta? You can’t afford a small mortage, car payment, insurance, food the basics with this type of salary. Pay teachers what they are worth and stop this slash and burn method!!!
Lynn
November 12th, 2010
10:50 am
In addition, school systems dont have tuition reimbursement!! This would help a teacher get a degree in a worthy area as well.
Grad Student
November 12th, 2010
10:51 am
I am currently working on a masters in middle grades math at Georgia State. I take some classes on line, some partially on line, and some classes I meet in person every week. I don’t see a lot of difference in the work I am expected to do, and I can’t say that I learn less in one or the other. I think most of the learning a student does in college happens outside the classroom anyway–reading and writing are done at home. It’s not like highschool where the real learning takes place in class because no one does homework anyway. I would say that I tend to avoid 100% on line courses because there is MORE work–I think the profs have to lay it on thick because they have to prove that learning is really taking place. (That’s not to say that some of it doesn’t feel like busy work, but that’s true in every kind of class.)
I think the issue here is not on line vs face to face learning–that ship has sailed and we can expect more on line classes in college and I think high school too in the future. The issue is the rigor of the program and the degree. I too have little respect for questionable degrees obtained from on line diploma mills. I would like to see an end to Curriculum Design, Teaching and Learning, and Ed Leadership degrees. I have no problem with the state refusing to pay for them. But if they do, they need to strictly enforce the rules–no exceptions for people who try to find loopholes and game the system.
And “Wow,” re: your 10:15 post. why such a nasty tone? I thought Retired Educator was offering a valid perspective. I don’t understand people who come onto public forums and try to pick fights. Surely there is nothing to be gained from that level of discourse. And I’m really asking here, why? What are you thinking when you respond like that? I would like to know.
Chris
November 12th, 2010
10:51 am
I’m working on a Master’s Degree in History Education – 12 hours of educational classes (which are mostly bs) and the rest in graduate history courses. This semester alone I’ve had to churn out a couple of 25 plus page papers for my history class I’m in and I’ve got another bigger one coming. As I complete the program I’ll have to write a master’s thesis along with the rest of the MA History students.
There are WAY too many teachers who do garbage (online AND in person) for BS degrees that mean nothing. However, I just hope that the PSC doesn’t punish everybody because of the actions of some. Don’t punish those of us who are doing it the right way.
JJ
November 12th, 2010
10:57 am
Let’s all agree there are many bogus Masters and Doctoral programs within easy reach for anyone to take. It is not up to the teacher to tell the county not to accept these programs, it is up to the county to tell the teachers programs with no substance will no longer be accepted. My wife got her masters from a top rated school and worked her ass off, her principal got her PhD from a matchbook. The sad part is they both played within the rules.
UGA Alumni
November 12th, 2010
10:58 am
I like what the PSC is doing. Many of the oatmeal box advanced degree programs have already gone away. I am currently enrolled in the re-designed educational leadership program at Kennesaw and it is like having another full-time job. I spend an average of 2 hours PER NIGHT working on assignments, readings, talking with collegues after school, gathering data etc. in addition to the 4+ hours of class once a week. I would challenge anyone to question the validity of my program.
What the PSC is doing is making sure those that pursue professional development through advanced degrees for the rigor, experience, and growth get compensated for that and those that just do it for the $$$ do not. An actual logical appraoch where the right people are rewarded and the wrong people are not is refreshing. AMEN!!
The other view
November 12th, 2010
11:03 am
I got my masters degree the traditional manner. It had online elements but required a lot of travel, and was directly in my field. I will be starting a doctorate program next month in order to take advantage before the changes come into effect at PSC. I understand the PSC chaning the rules, but I also do not see the harm in trying to up my salary by getting a degree from on an online university. I had a 4.0 and got very little from my Master’s Degree from my traditional university in Georgia.
I just do not understand the sentiment that teachers are “trying to get away with something” I want a better life for me and my family. I cannot secure in a program before July and there is not a university system less then 45 minutes from where I live, so why not go the online route? I have been told how to increase my salary, and now leagally doing so. I take issue with talking about “the right way” to get a degree. It makes no sense to me.
Maureen Downey
November 12th, 2010
11:05 am
To All, There are some great comments here — love the matchbox one. Please contact staff writer Nancy Badertscher who wants to speak to teachers who are have, now or are planning to enroll in advanced degree programs. If you can help, please email her asap at nbadertscher@ajc.com. She wants to speak with people who don’t mind being quoted and would be willing to be photographed.
Pluto
November 12th, 2010
11:10 am
I have worked with Masters of Education colleagues who wanted to argue content in the field of science which I held both BS and MS with concentrations in chemistry and math. They were dead wrong on content and yet they were allowed to continue mis-instructing students. How can these types of folks be weeded out? I had a principal who got a Masters from UGA in Lord only knows what that could not write a complete and coherent sentence to save him. That didn’t stop him from constantly butchering the English language in way too many emails. Many of these degrees are worthless.
RJ
November 12th, 2010
11:10 am
First, let me state that many reputable schools offer on-line degrees; I am considering pursuing one with Boston University. This program is no cakewalk and I invite anyone who thinks so to join me. I’ve had a friend receive her Master’s through this program and it was quite rigorous.
What bothers me is the number of teachers that get these overpriced degrees from diploma mills because they don’t want to do the work. Most tell me they have no plans of repaying these loans. They will simply defer forever. Is that even possible? It’s scary to think that educators would consider “stealing” their degree.
jrk
November 12th, 2010
11:14 am
Kelley Hanson has a BA in Political Science. The easiest degree in the history of college education. A Masters in Education, a specialist in education and $150,000 a year at GAPSC plus 8,000 in travel. Are we getting a return on our money, from a man who said he left the classroom only for the money. Talk about the pot and the kettle! Most of his points are valid, however the GPSC hasn’t done a good job of communicating with the rest of the world and identifying proper programs and schools and listing them on their website for teachers. Either SACS isn’t doing their job, or GPSC is dropping the ball. If a person goes to a school that is not recognized by SACS, that is their fault. If they get a degree from a program that is recognized by SACS, and the program stinks, then that is the fault of SACS. Don’t blame teachers for this mess. They are only doing whats in their best interest, just like Mr.s Henson and every other politician out there. More money is wasted in schools in places other than in salaries.
With the advanced degrees, you make average salaries, not good or even great, for what is expected of us. If you don’t get an advanced degree, you will starve to death while living in the projects.
New School
November 12th, 2010
11:16 am
I’m looking around my company right now and giggling. Some of the best employees (best producers) have only BS degrees. Two that come to mind have only associates degrees. Very few of the advanced degree holders can match up based on performance.
The question, regardless of degree, is as my dad always said “yeah, but what can you do?”
Halftrack
November 12th, 2010
11:26 am
Our teachers must be the highest educated in our history. Yet, Georgia is one of the lowest ranked States in our nation. An ole saying is that PHD’s is an acronym for Piled High & Deep. One of the top management guru’s says that a person often is promoted to a position of their incompetence level. The drop out rate for Georgia H.S. has been at or near 50% for decades. Nothing has changed except the cost of education. We had better learning ability and effective teaching in a one room school house. The McGuffy reader taught moral principles and civility to students to name one thing that made a huge difference in Society.
T Dog
November 12th, 2010
11:26 am
Teachers are way over payed now.
The Av pay is $ 36.27 an hour ! . $ 55,138.52 a year and they don’t work but 9 months !
It’s a tax pad gravy train !!!!!!
Garbage Really?
November 12th, 2010
11:29 am
To Principal teacher,
Just because you went to UGA does not mean that other schools including NOVA don’t offer rigourus programs. Sure it is great to sit in a classroom and get the feed back you need. But when you are on line you are on your own. Sitting at the computer in your PJ”s please it is more to it than that. Speaking on the behalf of NOVA many have drooped out due to the rigourus grading that is done along with having assignments due every week at a specific time no excuses. The professors feel as though we should know how to do whatever it takes to earn a doctorate degree. Very little help is offered. Many of us have have families with young children so therefore we can not afford to go sit in classroom. We work online and rely on eluminate sessions with the professors. It would be nice to have that support that you had. My point is we do work hard and it’s not easy because in my program we are graded extremly hard and in my opinon the teachers are not on the same page as to what they want. Yes I am complaining about my program only because we are not given the guidance that is needed and they expect top of the line work. Before you call something garbage know what your talking about first.
northern neighbor
November 12th, 2010
11:30 am
It would be far better for schools to reimburse for tuition and expenses. This is the way most companies handle advanced education. This would limit the expense to those programs which the teacher and system plan together and deem beneficial for current and future professional development/advancement. The current system wastes a lot of money.
Pancake On A Stick
November 12th, 2010
11:30 am
Scenario: A career classroom teacher has an M.Ed and Ed.S in leadership. He diligently tries every year to get an administrative position to no avail. He wants to be an administrator and actually use his advanced degrees in the field he is certified but is denied.
Should this person not be paid for the advanced degree because they are unable to use it or should teachers be denied extra pay because they choose not to use it?
This gets tricky really quickly.
sissyuga
November 12th, 2010
11:31 am
Yes, while my fellow teachers are getting their advanced educational leadership degrees from strange online programs that only takes 12 to 16 months, I am taking a different route. I am obtaining my Ed.S in Language and Literacy from UGA with the emphasis on Literacy Coaching. This programs will allow me to specialize in teaching children who have difficulty reading. Yes I drive about a 100 miles round trip to and from class. Yes it will take me probably 3-4 years. Don’t punish me because others are “earning” degrees that do not benefit their students and are watered down. DO NOT. I can’t bring myself to choose what my fellow teachers are doing.
Mo' Freddie
November 12th, 2010
11:33 am
I have mixed views about this move by PSC
Why I am for it? It is a loophole that has been used for years. Plus, online courses are not going anywhere. PSC also should push traditional/online college of education programs for more rigor and accreditations credentials. In addition, I just don’t understand why someone with a Ed.D. degree still in the classroom.
Why I am against it? As one who has received my M. Ed. from an online program, which I thought was pretty rigorous, my motivation was strictly a pay increase. Here in Atlanta compared to my hometown, it is worth getting an advanced degree. Besides, why should a teacher who has a Masters but can’t control her classes makes more money than me due to her credentials? In addition, if you want more “top 5%” of undergraduates or “highly-skilled (in content)” to go into the teaching field, you have to make the field more attractive. I mean, really, why would some of these people go into teaching when it is common knowledge that teachers are overworked, yet underpaid? That’s why many TFAs fulfilled their two- or three-year commitment and bounce elsewhere
Lisa
November 12th, 2010
11:34 am
Wow!! This is crazy! I have an Masters in Ed, a EdS in Technology and I am working on my EdD in Instructional Technology. All of my degrees are in my field and I went to both a campus and online for my advanced degrees. The problem that I have is other educators bashing schools and the quality of degrees. I do believe that there are far to many people with advanced degrees in Ed Leadership. I am all for geting a degree in your field but lay off the issue is my school is better than your school. Look at the rigor of the program! I dare you to tell me that I did not work for my degrees! I am attending an online school that is actually a university and I am proud of it! It has accredited programs that most schools do not and can not get their accrediation for the programs that they offer! That’s why I am online–for the type of advanced degree program not the lack of rigor! I did not attend a large school for my Bachelors so are we going to start bashing undergraduate teacher programs???
I blame the PSC–they should have seen this coming!!! Guess what the enrollment across the Country here in GA and online schools is going to go up 500% in January!!!