Peachtree City middle school meanness: Symptom of a culture gone awry or parents gone AWOL?
When the movie "Mean Girls" was made, kids still whispered rumors about one another. Now, the web delivers such poison in a far more efficient and expedited way. (Photo/Paramount)
Apparently, some web savvy adolescents at J.C. Booth Middle School in Peachtree City created a site that listed the school’s best-looking and popular kids as well as those they suspected of being gay.
I am delighted that the school found out about the site and moved quickly to talk to students about its implications. There’s nothing new about middle school students rating who’s attractive and who’s liked.
But there are two new forces at play today that make such lists more problematic than 30 years ago: The culture itself re-inforces the social poison of middle school and the web delivers it with lightning speed.
I also wonder if parents contribute to the problem by allowing their children unfettered access to computers. I have found that some parents prefer their children be the alpha students making such lists rather than the ones who end up on the lists. (One of the surprises of my parenting life has been how invested mothers become in their children’s social standing, probably because my own mother did not get involved at all.)
This story is from 11-Alive News news:
According to a letter sent to parents by principal Ted Lombard, someone created a site called “Booth Middle School Lists”, which included names under categories such as “Most Popular” and “Best Looking.”
The letter states that the site also listed ten names under a heading that included a crass term questioning the student’s sexual orientation. There was a picture of one student stamped with the same crass term.
“I wouldn’t know where to begin to tap into something like that and start posting things about people,” said parent Jill Burke. “They’re pretty bold.”
Parents waiting for their students to leave school Tuesday afternoon expressed outrage at the creator of the site.
“I think it’s horrible,” said Audrey Fincher. “There should be some serious repercussions.”
Administrators found out about the site last Thursday, and on Friday notified parents whose children were named. On Monday, the school held an assembly to discuss the site and assure students that the school was working to determine who created it.
The letter states that part of the site listed the first names of the people who allegedly created it, names that could possibly be linked to two 8th grade boys at the school.
Peachtree City Police are investigating to determine who created the web site, and if any laws were broken.
I also want to share an excerpt from a recent New York Times story about a topic that we have been discussing here on the Get Schooled blog – how much the culture contributes to the “mean girl” persona, now a staple in children’s TV, even the Disney channel.
Mean-girl behavior, typically referred to by professionals as relational or social aggression and by terrified parents as bullying, has existed for as long as there have been ponytails to pull and notes to pass (today’s insults are texted instead). But while the calculated round of cliquishness and exclusion used to set in over fifth-grade sleepover parties, warfare increasingly permeates the early elementary school years.
“Girls absolutely exclude one another in kindergarten,” said Michelle Anthony, a psychologist and co-author of the new book “Little Girls Can Be Mean.” When her own daughter was manipulated by a “friend” into racing down a slide booby-trapped with mud, making it appear to a group of boys as though she’d soiled her pants, Dr. Anthony was taken aback. “You don’t expect to run into that level of meanness in a 7-year-old.”
But at a time when teenage cyber-bullying is making headlines, parents fear that the onset of bullying behavior is trickling down. According to a new Harris survey of 1,144 parents nationwide, 67 percent of parents of 3- to 7-year-olds worry that their children will be bullied; parents of preschoolers and grade-school-age children are significantly more likely to worry than parents of teenagers. Such fears may be justified. One recent survey of 273 third graders in Massachusetts found that 47 percent have been bullied at least once; 52 percent reported being called mean names, being made fun of or teased in a hurtful way; and 51 percent reported being left out of things on purpose, excluded from their group of friends or completely ignored at least once in the past couple of months.
“The research literature on aggression is very clear that with relational aggression, it’s monkey see, money do,” said Tracy Vaillancourt, who specializes in children’s mental health and violence prevention at the University of Ottawa. “Kids mirror the larger culture, from reality TV to materialism.”We no longer live in the pigtailed world of Cindy Brady where a handful of channels import variations on sugar and spice, with prompt repercussions for the latter. “So much of what passes for entertainment is about being rude, nasty and crass,” said Meline Kevorkian, who studies bullying at Nova Southeastern University in Fort Lauderdale-Davie, Fla. “What we see as comedy is actually making fun of other people.”
Nicole Martins, a professor of telecommunications at Indiana University, has conducted a study linking aggressive behavior to shows with stars she deemed socially aggressive, like “Hannah Montana” and “The Simple Life.” “There was no effect on aggression on boys, but in girls, there was an increase among those who watched socially aggressive female models on TV,” Dr. Martins said.
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129 comments Add your comment
SpaceyG
October 20th, 2010
1:13 pm
Pardon. Meant to type *funcapades.* Blogs with no comment editing feature are sooooo 2008.
JATL
October 20th, 2010
1:14 pm
The pervasiveness is another problem. Not only the amount of kids acting as bullies, but the information they’re spreading is going EVERYWHERE. It used to be if a kid went to school in town and got picked on, he or she might still find friends or a safe haven at their church or another community organization where the school bullies weren’t. Now, these kids go online and post things on other kids’ facebook pages and make websites so that anyone and everyone who knows the person can read and see it. By bullying with text messages, they assault kids relentlessly day and night so that the kid doesn’t even feel safe in their own home -they literally cannot get away from it.
@wussies united and fatties united -it’s far different than it used to be. I’m all for toughening up and teaching kids to stand up for themselves -and more of that needs to be done. I don’t condone whining and I don’t call a kid being called “fat” or “stupid” once or twice or shoved once on the playground “bullying.” How would you feel though if you or your child had a web page or Facebook page made about them with hundreds of posts stating they were a whore who f**ked guys in the a** and took money for BJs? Where photoshopped nude pix of your son or daughter were posted with this info? If literally most anyone in the world could view it? If a potential employer or college where they were applying “googled” them and saw it (because the do -more and more everyday). Would you tell your sobbing child to “suck it up” or “take control of their own feelings”? How about two or three (or even one) person constantly texting them day and night about what a fat, dumb, ugly, hated piece of crap they are and how no one likes them and honestly most people in their class wish they would kill themselves -all of this at age 10 or 11? You think that sort of thing might just wear down an 11 year olds’ armor a bit? Also be aware, that if your kid had the power to go into school and beat the hell out of the folks who did this -YOUR kid would be expelled and possibly arrested and charged with assault. Today’s bullying is FAR different than anything we experienced.
Forsyth County mom
October 20th, 2010
1:14 pm
To Rod & Southern Hope:
Thanks! I couldn’t have said it better myself!
To Vendetta: Take your meds? Sounds like you’re a bully yourself. I wouldn’t be surprised when your kids tell you they’ve been suspended for bullying…..the acorn doesn’t fall far from the tree.
Truthpaste
October 20th, 2010
1:15 pm
First thing we have to admit is that bullying isn’t anything new. Everyone in this blog has been bullied or done the bullying. The only new part of the equation is the internet. What use to be slambooks is now a webpage. The administration was slow to move back in the day, just as they are now. The worse I had to deal with was someone bringing a knife to a fist fight, now it’s guns. When’s the last time can honestly say they went to their local PTA meeting and brought up a topic other than booster club?
Maureen Downey
October 20th, 2010
1:17 pm
@Kat, See fix and thanks for the catch.
JATL
October 20th, 2010
1:17 pm
The pervasiveness is another problem. Not only the amount of kids acting as bullies, but the information they’re spreading is going EVERYWHERE. It used to be if a kid went to school in town and got picked on, he or she might still find friends or a safe haven at their church or another community organization where the school bullies weren’t. Now, these kids go online and post things on other kids’ facebook pages and make websites so that anyone and everyone who knows the person can read and see it. By bullying with text messages, they assault kids relentlessly day and night so that the kid doesn’t even feel safe in their own home -they literally cannot get away from it.
@wussies united and fatties united -it’s far different than it used to be. I’m all for toughening up and teaching kids to stand up for themselves -and more of that needs to be done. I don’t condone whining and I don’t call a kid being called “fat” or “stupid” once or twice or shoved once on the playground “bullying.” How would you feel though if you or your child had a web page or Facebook page made about them with hundreds of posts stating they were a w**re who f’d guys in the a** and took money for oral s** (I’m having to clean up because even though I subbed with asterisks my first attempt isn’t showing up)? Where photoshopped nude pix of your son or daughter were posted with this info? If literally most anyone in the world could view it? If a potential employer or college where they were applying “googled” them and saw it (because the do -more and more everyday). Would you tell your sobbing child to “suck it up” or “take control of their own feelings”? How about two or three (or even one) person constantly texting them day and night about what a fat, dumb, ugly, hated piece of crap they are and how no one likes them and honestly most people in their class wish they would kill themselves -all of this at age 10 or 11? You think that sort of thing might just wear down an 11 year olds’ armor a bit? Also be aware, that if your kid had the power to go into school and beat the hell out of the folks who did this -YOUR kid would be expelled and possibly arrested and charged with assault. Today’s bullying is FAR different than anything we experienced.
CynthiaM
October 20th, 2010
1:27 pm
The web sight is shameful and hateful. True, these children are learning terrible habits from the adults in their world. However, V for Vendetta, I must tell you that Biblical teaching of God’s infallible word is not teaching hate. God’s truth cannot be ignored, regardless of what is politically correct.
V for Vendetta
October 20th, 2010
1:27 pm
Rod, Southern Hope, FC Mom,
Sheesh. Maybe I need to clarify: Once bullying is taking place, it is already too late to make a meaningful change. I’m not saying you shouldn’t put a stop to it; I’m saying you shouldn’t expect it to stop. Big difference.
Unless we teach our kids how to deal with bullies THEMSELVES, then we can expect more and more outbreaks of violence, suicide, and hatred. It’s a new world out there, one in which technology allows kids unfettered access to each other’s personal lives. Rather than marching on bullies with torches and pitchforks, we should teach our children the dangers of the internet, how to protect themselves, and that other people should be treated with respect unless you’re given a reason otherwise.
You’re all right on one account: poor parental involvement often creates the worst of bullies, the ones who end up doing something violent or dangerous. Those are the students we should be looking at expelling, not a bunch of little girls who made a website that hurts people’s feelings.
You can make fun of my parenting skill all you want (an awfully low blow, don’t you think?), but I am proud to be raising two strong, confident children who will love themselves and take pride in their accomplishments. As John Galt said in Atlas Shrugged: “I swear by my life and my love of it that I will not live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.”
V for Vendetta
October 20th, 2010
1:28 pm
CynthiaM,
I don’t believe in your god, so I care not at all for your “truth.” You keep your “truth” to yourself. I’ve been ignoring your god’s “truth” for quite some time.
A+A
October 20th, 2010
1:29 pm
Children are vicious. Everyone knows this. The teachers at that school know very well who the bullies are and do nothing about it. But most of the popular kids burn out early, anyway. It’s fun to watch.
DK
October 20th, 2010
1:29 pm
More erosion of our rights because someone doesn’t like what we say.
I think it is ridiculous that we’d suspend or expel a kid from school for something they do off school time. We are seceding too much authority to our schools (government) now (like charging kids with a crime for childish fights. Police officers have no place in our schools and should never get involved in school discipline unless it involves a gun, drugs, serious injury, rape, or felony theft). And the mentality that we should use police power to stop someone’s rights to free speech because we do not like what is said is nauseating.
Several of the writers in the forum have hit the nail on the head. We are raising a generation of losers and whiners because we are trying to protect our kids from reality. I do not condone violence, but peer pressure is not, and should not, be considered violence. If someone is so weak-willed that they kill themselves because of what people say to them, the problem is with the person committing suicide, yet we want to treat them as the victim, and in so doing, send a message to the rest of our kids that might be in the same boat, that such action is an acceptable way of handling being taunted.
We do not live in a perfect world, and trying to shield our kids from unpleasantness rather that teaching them to live in a world where unpleasantness exists is a disservice to the child and a breach of our duty to our children. We are losing our standing in the world because we are losing our toughness. We are raising a generation that can’t face tough situations and can’t handle tough solutions. Don’t get me wrong. I’d discipline my child if I caught him engaging in this behavior and I’d remind him that we should treat others the way want to be treated, but I have no intention of seceding my parental rights to our government school teachers, to discipline my child for their actions at home, and I’ll be damned if I’ll agree to treating our children like criminals for acting like children.
Hoofty
October 20th, 2010
1:35 pm
Aside from determining if students are gay or not, I don’t see anything wrong with the site. Don’t most yearbooks have things like “Most Popular” in them?
Tweets that mention Peachtree City middle school meanness: Symptom of a culture gone awry or parents gone fishing? | Get Schooled -- Topsy.com
October 20th, 2010
1:38 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Grayson Daughters, Jeff, Sue Larson Pileggi, Carl Haavaldsen, Johanes Indrajaya and others. Johanes Indrajaya said: Peachtree City middle school meanness: Symptom of a culture gone bad or …: When the movie "Mean Girls" was made,… http://bit.ly/c185Aq [...]
David Sims
October 20th, 2010
1:45 pm
@Kat. It has been a long time since our soldiers fought for our freedom, and I wonder when people will see that this slogan for the tired, old cliche it is. I generally approve of soldiers, and sometimes soldiers do things that are good because they are necessary. It certainly is possible for a US soldier to fight so that an American can be free, when he otherwise wouldn’t be. But lately US military forces have not been employed for that purpose. They’ve been used to make the rich corporations even richer. They’ve been used to fight Israel’s enemies so the Jews won’t have to bear the expense or take the losses. But, as far as I know, the last time an American soldier fought for Americans’ freedom was during the Civil War—both sides fought for freedom in that war, or at least they thought they were; it was a question of whose freedom was the more important.
Ever since then, US military forces have been used to secure political objectives. American soldiers have crossed oceans to fight in other people’s countries, so that rich Americans might have greater profits. Starting with arms manufacturers. Arguably, the US Navy defended American freedom in the Pacific theater of WW2, but the fight with Japan was provoked by FDR, who convinced the Japanese government that the US would attack them soon no matter what they did. It is understandable that, war being unavoidable, Japan would want to get in the first solid punch.
It’s gotten to the point where the phrase “fight for our freedoms” makes me gag a little. How stupid are people, anyway? Do I look dumb enough to buy it? There’s nothing wrong with being patriotic, but don’t confuse patriotism with bandwagon sloganeering or “flag-waving.” Patriotism refers to the favorable regard that people who descend from common fathers have for each other. Nationalism refers to the mutual love between people of similar heritage (the idea that used to be expressed as “common birth”). Neither word has anything to do with a particular government, a particular political organization, or a particular flag.
Blue
October 20th, 2010
1:46 pm
Any parent that has teens at home and allows them to have computers behind closed doors is insane. We have key/stroke tracking software so that we can MONITOR. Kids have way more options to do very, very destructive things than in generations past. And if any of you want to talk about their “rights to privacy”? PLEASE…that is why we are in the situation we are today. Too much worrying about kids ‘rights’. They have more ‘rights’ when they are self sufficient and supporting themselves.
Archie@Arkam Asylum
October 20th, 2010
1:48 pm
@Sam; Much as you and I might enjoy that, capitol punishment for bullies will never happen ( at least not legally).
ptc born gay
October 20th, 2010
1:52 pm
shame on these children for perpetuating the ignorance and hatred of their parents. hatred is most definitely learned at home.
David Sims
October 20th, 2010
1:53 pm
@Hoofty. This whole tempest-in-a-teapot is just another example of what hypocrisy infests the left. If there is “nothing wrong” with being a homosexual, then why do leftists object when someone publishes a website (or a school year book) in which the award for the “Gayest” student is presented alongside the student voted “Most Likely to Succeed”? What? You mean they aren’t ~both~ honorable mentions? Do I understand that there is something stigmatizing about being a homosexual? And if there’s something wrong with the word “queer,” then why are homosexuals so fond of using it when referring to themselves and each other? Why, it’s beginning to appear that homosexuals have More Freedom Of Speech than other folks have. I don’t think that I like the idea.
Fletch
October 20th, 2010
1:57 pm
I’m sure congress will take this up and control yet another facet of our lives. Perhaps PARENTS need to play a part in this and set good examples reinforced by doing the right things themselves. In our era void of accountability, I am aghast at how we point the finger at things like this instead of taking action and ending it. We are the adults and we control the situation. Stop letting children dictate behavior.
Mommy BUS driver
October 20th, 2010
2:02 pm
As a former schol bus driver for JC Booth and McIntosh in PTC the parents of these children are notorious for allowing their wallets to babysit their children and most have absolutely NO idea what is going on in the lives of their children. There is a major line in this city….the haves and the have-nots. These kids will not be stopped by an assembly or someone saying “Tell me who set up this site”. As usual it will go underground and the torments will continue as they have for the last 15 years. My children were raised on the outskirts of PTC and I made it clear from the start that I would not compete with the money that is thrown around by the parents and teens of this city..and my kids turned out wonderful…..with respect for other people no matter what their differences are.
David Sims
October 20th, 2010
2:05 pm
@DK (October 20th, 2010 – 1:29 pm). Good post.
middler and so tired of all the rhetoric :
October 20th, 2010
2:07 pm
it doesn’t matter if it has always been around and people have always been affected by it. It was always wrong and it is wrong now. With the internet and social networking sites and lack of parental responsibility bullying today is not the same. It can be anonymous and remain forever. Schools abrogate responsibility or teachers even participate. When someone can call the president of the United States “liar” and be applauded for it no one is immune. Freedom of speech was never meant to allow people to harass or lie about others, hound them, intimidate them, incite violence against them, or hurt their feelings to no purpose. We should call out this cowards and expose them, and their parents, and hold them accountable. It’s ok to dislike anyone for any reason; it’s not ok to act like this.
WE lost our way
October 20th, 2010
2:18 pm
Welcome to PTC!! I have lived here for over 20 years.Booth middle school has a majority of students who come from up-scale neighborhoods and both parents probably have college degrees. In the last few years the youth in this area have become a problem for schools and police.Just last week in the Fayette News paper an article about all the problems with parties,alcohol and drug use in our local high schools. In fact several cheerleaders were kicked off the squad for drinking in one high school.Go to any store in PTC on a Saturday or Sunday and you will see boys and girls who have no respect for the English language and say what ever they want to anyone. Maybe this is what our society has come to. We are raising a generation of cold hearted, self absorbed, me not you,future inmates for our State and federal prisons. Bulling is the start of future problems with children,they learn from their home environment.
Josh
October 20th, 2010
2:31 pm
Maybe if these imbecile (kids and parents) cared more about education than social standing our entire country wouldn’t be doomed.
Kids in Korea, Germany, Norway, and other nations are focused on learning (what a concept).
Kids in Georgia are focused on social standing, cutting class, and bringing weapons to school
RKG
October 20th, 2010
2:35 pm
I am concerned about the focus that is put on “mean” girls in this blog entry. I know of no evidence to support the fact that girls are primarily perpetrators of bullying. In fact, this website seems to have been created by two boys. There are bullies of both genders.
@George Johnson & David Sims – please educate yourselves with regard to the first amendment. We are granted freedom of speech, not freedom from consequences of our speech.
And, again to David Sims, your play at ignorance is too thinly veiled. First, the entry makes it clear that a derogatory word was used to refer to the students’ sexuality, and I’m guessing it wasn’t “queer” (your advocacy of its use is for another discussion entirely, by the way). The issue here is not about the students simply being recognized as being gay, but about having their perceived sexuality used as a weapon against them. But I don’t have to tell you that. It is clear that you are dissembling.
ml
October 20th, 2010
2:44 pm
dads are put down
moms are overly built up, if someone is great already, there is no need for improvement or self-regulating
and kids are special just because they are kids
these 3 things lead to disarray
a rise in the lack of empathy and compassion are symptoms
kids are cool, they are important but they’ve been built up to believe that they are more special than they really are just for being a kid. they are just undeveloped humans. and when a human proves themself to be special then they are special. the day care said it best: kids r kids
they’re fun and interesting but a work in progress. they should be protected and treated well.
when a kid watches mom and dad use them as an excuse that maybe mom and dad just really want from themselves the kid sees that. that has an affect on what they think their role is or may be in the family.
i see kids making family decisions on all kinds of tv shows, and it’s treated as cute, it’s too much, my parents would tell me to stay out of the way this is an adult decision.
i’ve seen way to many kids in bars and restaurant bars – not right
watching too many reality shows whose whole basis is finding the worst person and following them around all the time watching them do bad things, this sinks in
just like advertising and tv and movies
got a problem? throw a drink on somebody
irritated? punch somebody
all these things sink in
too many parents out spending on their kid more than another parent in attempt to make things look like they are doing better parenting, sometimes the kids get too much
and the kids are smart enough to see how they are being used and are also smart enough to manipulate it to their advantage whenever they can.
make dad and mom equals
stop making kids a higher rank in the family than they actually should be
and it wouldn’t even hurt if you told them more about Jesus and less about Christianity
less about Republican and Democrat and more about what is the most good
take as many labels as possible away from important issues and make the best choice possible fully understanding that nothing is perfect
the division in this country perfectly orchestrated by some political leaders has hamstrung us many times in recent years from being able to make good decisions
1/3 of my belief is liberal. 1/3 moderate and 1/3 conservative
it just depends on the issue and what could be the best possible action
we all need to treat this country more like that.
the world isn’t black and white, so binary 1’s and 0’s
all this has a great affect on the people of this country, and yes that includes families
when we say things like the children are our future when really it’s the other way around, we are our children’s future, we distort and distract.
the way politicians are constantly using children for their own personal gain, with such a poor track record so evident, should loudly be exposed as selfish pandering.
T. S. Cobb
October 20th, 2010
2:47 pm
Social climbing mothers ruin their daughters and has-been (or never-been) athlete dads ruin their sons. I’ve been wortking in schools since 1971, and it has only gotten worse. Disgusting.
ml
October 20th, 2010
2:49 pm
ok-’the almost perfect orchestration’ but ya gotta admit, when comes to personal gain at any cost, politicians are quite skilled
Bozo
October 20th, 2010
2:50 pm
I was bullied in school by a certain group of people. In those days, it was punches, kicks and push downs. The bullies always were in a group; 2 to one, 3 to one, etc. Fortunately for me, I had the opportunity to secretly retaliate; however, it was the parents who suffered.
Recently, I was notified of a 50th graduation reunion and was requested to attend. When I noticed many of the bullies were on the email list, I decided not to go. When I replied, I replied to all on the email list. In the reply, I named the bullies, told of the bullying and because the bullies may attend, I thought it best to not attend.
To my astonishment, I received many supportive replys as apparently I was not the only one that was bullied. I did receive two emails from spouces of the bullies that were not supportive.
By the way, my self esteem was not harmed by the bullying; however, as an adult, I do not condone secret retaliation.
HS Public Teacher
October 20th, 2010
2:55 pm
Dare we blame….. the kids and the parents???? Gulp!
Dont’ we always blame the teachers? Or, at least blame the school? How can we get away from our scapegoat?
David Sims
October 20th, 2010
2:56 pm
@CynthiaM. “The web sight is shameful and hateful. True, these children are learning terrible habits from the adults in their world. However, V for Vendetta, I must tell you that Biblical teaching of God’s infallible word is not teaching hate. God’s truth cannot be ignored, regardless of what is politically correct.
There’s another, and a better, way to find truth. Use an empirical method, such as the scientific method. It might take a while to work, but when it does work, it works for everybody. Anyone with the intelligence and the material prerequisites can do the same research, carry out the same experiments, get the same results, and usually reach the same set of conclusions about what the truth is. You might need a microscope, a telescope, or a chemical laboratory. But you won’t need a priest.
What the “Word of God” might be, I won’t claim to know. Christians say that the New Testament is God’s word on certain matters, such as what happens to people after they die, and the conditions for having good Afterlife circumstances rather than poor ones. But someone of a different religion will disagree, and I don’t see how aligning my thinking with the beliefs most common in my native land is a valid way of answering metaphysical questions.
Truth is not something you can find by the method of voting on what the truth is.
How do you know when a method for seeking truth is the right one? By whether it works or not. And who should be the judge of whether the method works or not? Certainly, not those with an interest in seeing it prevail. No, the judge of a method for seeking the truth should be those who do not have any reason to cheat, and who will, therefore, fairly grade the method upon its measurable results.
When do you have measurable results?
When a method for seeking the truth can, really can, cause a light to spring forth and banish darkness. When it can, really can, heal the sick. When it can, really can, allow people to communicate across thousands, or even millions, of miles. When it can, really can, bring to us knowledge of other planets and other suns. When it can, really can, give people powers that they did not have before.
Try praying up a light the next time you find yourself stuck in a dark place. When that doesn’t work, reach for your flashlight and switch it on. And instead of thanking God for your light, you should thank James Clerk Maxwell, Michael Faraday, Joseph Henry, James Watt, and Thomas Edison. Although some of these men believed in the same God that you do, they’d have accomplished nothing if their method for discovering the truth remained limited to reading scripture, for the answers are not to be found there. Some scientists are religious. Their success as scientists depends on their consistent abandonment of faith as the means by which truth is discovered, in favor of the same empiricism that every atheist scientist also uses.
And if trying to pray up a light never works for you when you are in a dark place, then why should prayers have any effect upon the course of a sick person’s disease, or speed someone’s recovery from injury? The only difference is that you can’t avoid the fact that the light still isn’t there after you’ve prayed for it—you’ll still stumble around and bump into things in the dark as much after praying as you did before. But when the supposed results are not in your direct sight, you can deceive yourself into thinking that you have “done something” that “made a difference,” although you have not.
Shannon
October 20th, 2010
3:02 pm
@V for V: You have to admit the irony in this: “Forsyth County mom, Take your meds. I don’t condone bullying, and I would be the first to straighten my kids out if I caught them doing such a thing. It is thuggish and pathetic.” As the mom replied, “take your meds” and implying that someone who disagrees with you has a mental illness is a clear example of online bullying.
Look, folks, you can natter on about how the world is just awful and kids need to be toughened up to face it–and that won’t help. It’s blaming the victim, letting the bully off the hook, and sending exactly the wrong message to youth.
I’d rather look at the kids who are growing up to make the world awful and intervene so they don’t.
Further, I think online bullying in anonymous forums like this one ought to be called out and not accepted. That’s not the same thing as passing a law against it; I advocate for community standards of civility, and those who don’t meet them need to be shamed until they leave or change their behavior. But that’s for adults.
Children are *learning*. They are in school, and there are plenty of rules in school that become proper-but-not-legislated behavior for adults. No one is going to incarcerate an adult for speaking harshly to someone, but in school, the behavior needs to be corrected. Otherwise, we’ll have a lot of out-of-control adults–and with more power, their bad behavior will have even more societal repercussions.
Ben
October 20th, 2010
3:18 pm
Hey folks, I got a flash for ya; this is a free speech issue. There have been no laws broken only a display of alpha males and females and suspected homosexuals. There’s a new I-phone app called an ugly meter that’s going to be used a lot around my daughters school tomorrow. I can only imagine the commotion that’s going to cause.
The question is how this technology is being used and trying to limit its use is like trying to catch and hold water in a colander. The bottom line is that people are mean and cruel; deal with it! There is no way that anyone can or even should try to control bullying.
ml
October 20th, 2010
3:21 pm
bless ya brother Cobb, I couldn’t take the torture, can’t believe how much more parents stand up for their kids today when the kid has done something wrong, acting as if this is protecting the kid, when actually it’s not corrected negative behavior and can ultimately hurt the kid in the future by planting a seed of unaccountability and irresponsibilty.
hang in there, i’ll contact amnesty international on behalf of all teachers
Bullies don't die
October 20th, 2010
3:31 pm
Bullies learn by being victims first. It’s a vicious cycle that probably will never end. Technology has only perpetuated the problem. Parents are the first line of defense, but they can perpetuate the problem.
Parents today often don’t want to be parents, they want to be friends with their kids. By doing this they breed little monsters. It is easy to spot the many parents that lives revolve around their kids success. They often ridicule other kids faults as example for their kids on what NOT to be. This accelerates the bullying and often leds to living a fake lifestyle.
David Sims
October 20th, 2010
3:35 pm
@RKG. I don’t think that “mean girls” was the focus of the blog entry. There was a fictional production some while back that dealt with the subject of mean girls, but it looks to me like it was used here only because it was handy. Nobody has suggested that most bullies are girls. You just made that up as a strawman to give yourself a talking point and to posture yourself as the guru of gender fairness. Confess and repent of your sins.
I’m not ignorant of the meaning of the First Amendment, but you might be. The manner by which government denies people freedom is, sometimes, law. Occasionally, the freedom denied is one we are better off without. Should we all have the freedom to rob each other of personal property? No. Are laws against theft thus good things? Yes.
Years and years ago, certain white men engaged in creating our Republic decided that some of the freedoms we do need, of which the government should never create laws to deny us, were the freedoms of religion, speech, press, petition, and peaceful assembly. That’s what the First Amendment was for: forbidding any government in the United States from abridging, with laws, the freedom of speech, among other things.
But there are laws, and there are government actions that might as well be laws, even if they never were enacted by a legislative body. When the police harass you in your home because you and they support different candidates for city mayor, they are behaving illegally, but because they are the official organ of the government for law enforcement who are behaving illegally, what they do has the force of law. Unless and until some greater force puts a stop to it, there’s no difference as far as you are concerned: the local government will have violated the First Amendment.
And likewise for any other civil authority. If you express an idea or an opinion which they don’t like, and they burden you in your person, your money, your property, or your civil capacities, then they have infringed upon your freedom of speech, whether there is a written law that lets them do so, or not. That includes the civil authority resident in public schools.
Dissembling? No, indeed. I was doing no such thing. I admit to speaking with tongue in cheek while writing that paragraph about homosexuals having more rights than the rest of us (e.g., the right to use any slang word that has come to mean “homosexual”), but I was not trying to misrepresent my opinion.
OMG
October 20th, 2010
3:39 pm
“Recently, I was notified of a 50th graduation reunion and was requested to attend. When I noticed many of the bullies were on the email list, I decided not to go. When I replied, I replied to all on the email list. In the reply, I named the bullies, told of the bullying and because the bullies may attend, I thought it best to not attend.”
Bozo – sorry but you have not matured at all in 50 years and the bullies still won!!!! How childish of you to throw a temper tantrum at 68 years old! How embarassing!
JEM
October 20th, 2010
3:42 pm
I agree with V for Vendetta. I will teach my son to stand up for himself. Even as an adult, I have found that if you stand your ground, a typical “bully” finds out that their fear tactics don’t work. Most overly aggressive people are insecure cowards at heart. Teachers and school administrators can play a big part in this too. Sometimes it seems they are just as concerned with being “liked” or “popular” as kids are.
ACLU
October 20th, 2010
3:45 pm
It’s George Bush’s fault
Bert Weiss
October 20th, 2010
3:47 pm
Way to go David Sims and OMG!
and Bozo—your name says it all.
I am sure you were greatly missed at the high school reunion
Pointer
October 20th, 2010
3:51 pm
Get over it, this is not just a PTC or a Georgia problem – this is nationwide. I grew up in upscale Grosse Pointe, MI and there were bullies everywhere. Guess what, in downtown Detroit these same people are called Gangs.
It all starts and stops with what happens at HOME. Government inforced acceptance is not going to solve the problem – it will only perpetuate it. The upswing in hate and intolerance towards gays is because they are mocked in shows like Glee, & Modern Family and people are then forced to be “tolerant” of that same behavior in everyday life. If you can laught at them and mock at them in your home, why not in public? There are no boundaries!
What Pride?
October 20th, 2010
3:59 pm
Recently we had annual Pride here in ATL. What kind of “pride” is it to parade around looking like a fool and demanding acceptance from others in return? Do you not realize that the very acceptance you are trying to obtain is obliterated when you try to shove it down people’s throat as “normal”?
Tolerance is a two way street. There will always be bullies and those that don’t like you deal with it.
Gary
October 20th, 2010
3:59 pm
I am sorry children are so thin skinned. Parents should focus on explaining to them that life is hard and it will not get better with age. They will have to deal with those same people in jobs, bars, sporting events, movie theaters, parties, colleges…. Teach your kids to deal with it without teaching them they are victims. Life is not pretty and easy. Somewhere that message got lost. A bully is someone who punches me in the face. Everyone else is just a jerk with an opinion. Stop the bullying, ignore the jerks.
RKG
October 20th, 2010
4:00 pm
@David Sims
I have nothing to confess regarding my comment about mean girls. I created no strawman, and I see myself as no guru. I truly bristled at the continued reference to the mean girl as a type – both the movie representation and the cited research. The very specific discussion of female behavior is, in my opinion, not germane to the overall point of the article.
Regarding your discussion of the first amendment, I disagree with the extent to which you have applied it. Schools absolutely should make and enforce rules to govern student behavior, which usually extends to their speech.
Al Gore (D)
October 20th, 2010
4:06 pm
Blame it on me since I invented the Internet
Team Mom
October 20th, 2010
4:16 pm
Forget about trying to get your kids involved in extra curricular activies and sports to get them away from technology, the bullies are everywhere. Many of the parents at the ball park are bullies, putting down other children and adults to lift their kid to super stardom.
Afterall, little Austin is going to be the next baseball pheonom and save mommy and daddy from their miserable adult lives. Mommy & daddy don’t realize they have already turned Austin into a by-product of themselves and now no one likes the entire family. They talk crap, lie and bully their way into your lives for social acceptance. Same can be said for Susie the next prima ballerina and Jack the next Bill Gates.
Heck this website and blog perpetuate bullying! We ALL are to blame!
mark o
October 20th, 2010
4:22 pm
I do think we need to protect the kids from bullying. If you think thats “wussification” I’ll gladly smash your face in. I just won’t bully you needlessly.
PTC
October 20th, 2010
4:25 pm
I live in PTC. I am acutely aware of the “Bubble” attitude. I agree a lot of children’s attitudes are the direct result of parents living through their children. Hence the “Alpha” syndrome. At issue here is the Bullying is surreptitiously done. If I was attacked, I defended myself. Once you give a bully a black eye, or even in most cases stood up to them, they would retreat. In the cyber-world you do not have that luxury. They are scum that hide behind anonymity. They are worse than bullies of old.
I have read some of the postings and a lot of them talk about the “Freedom of Speech” and the “First Amendment”. These do not exist the same form in a public school. This has been argued many times in the past. If the language is disruptive to the educational environment or goes against stated “Rules” (drug, violence, sexual orientation etc.), the school have the right and the obligation to address it.
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/studentspeech.htm
While I would like to know who these bullies were, see them with a black eye, expulsion would probably be the more civilized approach.
David Sims
October 20th, 2010
4:53 pm
@RKG. You’re right in part, but you have misconstrued—deliberately, to give yourself yet another strawman—the argument here. A public school is a kind of forum, but it is one moderated by the state, which has the right to make the rules. A private website, on the other hand, is a forum moderated by its owner, who has the right to make the rules.
The question is whether or not a principal of a public school may legally impose penalties on minors, who happen to be students in the school at which he works, for making a website without involving the use of school property. As ~this~ is the question—rather than what a student may or may not do in the school itself—it seems to me that the First Amendment protects what the minor is doing, and that the civil authority resident in the school violates the First Amendment when it penalizes him on account of his website.
MS
October 20th, 2010
5:04 pm
This behavior has been going on for years. I am 33 years old and it occurred while I was in Middle School, except we did not have the benefit of the web or categorize by sexual orientation. A list was created using notebook paper, photocopied and scattered throughout the halls of the school. The Author(s) were never discovered. In college, a similar list was created and distributed, this time named the “freak list” and specificically listing supposed sexual activities of students. I knew a girl who was listed on this list, the information was untrue (she suspected from a young man who’s advances she avoided), it was so traumatizing to her, she transferred to another college the following semester.
It is disappointing this behavior occurs, however, in my experience it seems to be a part of teen/young adult growing pains and even though the Author(s) may be minors I ‘think’ the behavior is protected under our first amendment rights, except they may have crossed the line with sexual orientation and i’m wondering if it can be considered discrimination, it will be interesting to see what the police department finds concerning the legal implications if any of this online list.