A teacher despondent over poor rating takes his own life, reopening the debate over public rankings based on student test scores
We have not discussed in depth the controversial LA Times project in which the newspaper obtained student test scores, correlated them with teachers and then rated teachers accordingly as effective or ineffective. The project is back in the news after the suicide of a teacher despondent over his rating by the newspaper.
The teacher’s death is reopening the debate about public disclosure of teacher performance based solely on test scores. I do think a compilation of test scores tell you something about a teacher, as long as you also know something about the students as well.
In explaining what it did, the LA Times wrote:
About 6,000 Los Angeles elementary school teachers and 470 elementary schools are included in The Times’ database of “value-added” ratings. Third-, fourth- and fifth-grade teachers who taught at least 60 students from the 2002-03 through 2008-09 academic years were evaluated in the Times analysis. Most of Los Angeles Unified School District’s elementary schools are included. Test scores for charter schools that do not report directly to the district were not available.
A teacher’s value-added rating is based on his or her students’ progress on the California Standards Tests for English and math. The difference between a student’s expected growth and actual performance is the “value” a teacher added or subtracted during the year. A school’s value-added rating is based on the performance of all students tested there during that period.
I remain uncertain about how much of a role test scores should play in teacher evaluations, although I believe they ought to play some role. (Any student scores used to assess a teacher should reflect student progress/growth rather than any absolute numbers.)
Any suicide is a tragedy. I have written in the past about suicide and know that there is typically a history of depression in adult suicides and that it is very difficult to pinpoint one single event as the sole cause. I think it is clear that 39-year-old Rigoberto Ruelas Jr., a fifth-grade teacher, was upset over his rating, but I am not sure that anyone can quantify how much of a factor the rating was in his apparent decision to take his own life.
He sounds like a great teacher. His death is a loss to his family and his school community.
Here is the very good AP story by reporter Christina Hoag:
The Los Angeles Times should remove teacher performance ratings from its website after the apparent suicide of a teacher despondent over his score, which was published in August, the union representing Los Angeles school teachers said.
United Teachers Los Angeles has also asked school administrators to join with them in the request to the newspaper, union president AJ Duffy said.
The body of 39-year-old Rigoberto Ruelas Jr., a fifth-grade teacher at Miramonte Elementary School, was found Sunday at the foot of a remote forest bridge. Investigators believe he jumped to his death, although the inquiry is continuing, Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department spokesman Steve Whitmore said.
The motive for Ruelas taking his own life is far from clear. But union officials said he had been upset since the Times published his district ranking as a “less effective” teacher based on his students’ standardized English and math test scores.
Ruelas scored “average” in getting his students up to acceptable levels in English, but “less effective” in math, and “less effective” overall. The school itself ranked as “least effective” in raising test scores, and only five of Miramonte’s 35 teachers were ranked as average.
The Times’ publication of individual rankings for elementary school teachers sparked widespread outrage among teachers. The rankings ranged from least and less effective to average, more effective and most effective.
The union protested in front of the newspaper’s downtown headquarters and called for a boycott of the Times, which published the rankings as part of a push for a better method to evaluate teacher effectiveness.
Although other factors may have been at play in Ruelas’ death, union official Mathew Taylor said Monday he believed the ranking was a contributing factor based on conversations with teachers at the school. Principals have been using the rankings to crack down on teachers, he said.
“He was a very well-respected teacher,” Taylor said. “He took the pressure being applied to him to heart.”
In a brief statement Sunday, the Times extended its condolences to the family and noted the death is under investigation.
Superintendent Ramon Cortines has said the type of teacher rankings published by the Times, known as “value-added,” shouldn’t be used as the sole criteria to measure effectiveness. The school board last month authorized the district to start developing a new method for evaluating teachers that incorporates value-added rankings, as well as in-classroom observation and other measures.
Detractors say value-added rankings place too much emphasis on test-score teaching, especially in schools like Miramonte, a large school in an impoverished, gang-plagued neighborhood about six miles southeast of downtown Los Angeles. About 60 percent of Miramonte students are Spanish-speaking English-language learners.
“Test scores are directly related to the socio-economic status of the student population,” said Taylor. “The best teachers are given the toughest kids. This man had won many awards.”
By all accounts, Ruelas did not shy away from problem kids.
Parents and former students described him as a mentor to youth tempted to join gangs and a tireless booster that low-income children could make it to college. He often stayed after school to tutor struggling kids and offer counseling so they stayed on the straight and narrow.
“He took the worse students and tried to change their lives,” said Ismael Delgado, a 20-year-old former student. “I had friends who wanted to be gangsters, but he talked them out of it. He treated you like family.”
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200 comments Add your comment
What if
September 28th, 2010
3:51 pm
HS Public Teacher: Yes, I know they work hard. There are very good people there, and they do very good work. BUT: those folks DO NOT produce those tests. People with WIDELY varying skills for relatively VERY low pay write items like crazy in little back rooms under contract to one of the big test makers. VERY few of them have taught, and VERY few of them have measurement expertise. THOSE are the people writing questions. I’m afraid it IS the same in every state. Been there, done that. We (folks in the testing biz) just LOVE to lean on our little numbers and say a question is “good.” That does NOT mean the question measures what’s taught – or even supposed to be taught. Folks on the inside just don’t like to admit it. Those problems aside, even very good tests aren’t good enough to do what we ask of them. If you ARE a teacher, you SHOULD know that one of the reasons you take many measures of your kids each year is that any ONE test is virtually meaningless. Such is the case with these once a year tests that states use to do such things as decide student promotion or graduation, or to make teachers commit suicide when we post the difference between two tests in the LA papers. By the way, “value added” is really little more than taking the difference in two test scores – which DOUBLES the error.
Paddy O
September 28th, 2010
5:19 pm
it appears what if has a serious paranoid-dementia problem – unless of course he/she has more than anecdotal evidence (what big company, name of those low paid employees); any teacher here know if this where GA actually receives its testing material? If so, the state BOE is jettisoning its obligation – they should be writing the actual test questions and only contracting out the printing of the test material. Ms. Downy, do you know if any of this apparent gibberish is accurate?
Jan
September 28th, 2010
5:26 pm
The problems we see in the system do not stop where tests are written. Developing a test that actually tests the material being taught is a skill that is not developed at the Schools of Education in this state. These institutions, unfortunately, seem to be part of the problem. It is my personal opinion that teachers are not educated to become good teachers; those who do become good teachers seem to need more time to reach that status (there will always be exceptions). It may be time to think about completely overhauling the “student teaching” experience. Put student teachers in the classroom for a longer time under the wings of experienced teachers who are dedicated to develop their student teachers. Pay these student teachers; when you get training in the corporate world, the employer gladly pays for the future increased productivity. Make sure that pedagogy and content areas continue to be developed during the student teaching extended period. Think outside the box with decisive input from the experts (teachers) and give new ideas time to grow. Stop trying to play the political spiel that is only motivated by personal gain.
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Teacher
September 28th, 2010
5:54 pm
Paddy O,
I think you need to check your facts, or at least download salary schedules for local school systems. I have been teaching for nine years. I earn $49,000 per year. I earned my Master of Education in 2007. I have over 20 students, and I do not have a parapro.
What you are suffering from, sir, is envy. If the job is so easy, if the pay is so great, and if the time off is something you desire, then I suggest looking at how you can put your current skills to use in a classroom. There are programs designed for professional people to accomplish this, such as the Georgia TAPP program.
Should you decide that this is the route for you, I must be upfront. You have to REALLY care to be a teacher. It is not a job that you simply sign up for to have summers off. Those who enter the profession with that in mind last a very short period of time in education. Much like a play or musical, there is a tremendous amount of preperation going on behind the scenes of a classroom. As the teacher, you are the director, and much of your directing and preparing occures at home, late at night, throughout the weekend, and during the summer. A great teacher is never really off, as you suggest.
Just some food for thought.
rosie
September 28th, 2010
6:22 pm
Fact is some kids don’t care if they pass or not cause mama and dady don’t care. I went into a classroom today and watched as a teacher taught. It was evident who would pass and who would fail. Six or seven students were attentive and trying while others looked into space. When the teacher switched to another activity the attentive kids went right to work and the others fumbled around wondering what to do. After talking to the teacher I realized she was frustrated. Some might accuse the teacher of not teaching to all learning styles. What a load of crap? When I was in school regardless of how the teacher taught I was expected to adapt and learn. The teacher explained to the non attentive kids they must participate in order to learn the material and pass, but they don’t seem to care. Why should teachers be judged on whether or not these kids pass the test? Why are these kids so non attentive? Why do other kids pay attention and care about grades? Are the attentive kids motivated by parents that believe and preach education is the key to success? What is the answer?
Paddy O
September 28th, 2010
6:48 pm
teacher – it had nothing to do with envy but a post-good salary sentiment in the general public, reinforced by teachers almost all the time, that they do NOT make a good salary – that is profound, intentionally manipulative misinformation. I have worked for the local government I do for 10 years, and you out earn me by $10,000. I serve the entire population, about 3000 people. Per Vince, Your health benefits are about average. Per @padio (who would not give his/her real name or ID), your pension is good – at the age of 50, assuming you retire earning $50,000 per year the last two years of your life you would earn $25,000 per year, this is over $2000 per month – this is over double my anticipated pension. (I do assume you won’t actually be able to retire until 55 – this would give you the 30 years in, which would provide you with $30,000 per year, or $2500 per month.) On an average year, I work at the office 240 days a week, with vacations and normal holidays. This salary structure is NOT sustainable, and one of the reasons local property tax is high. You essentially have less than 25 students’ parents paying your salary, compared to the 2000 or so adults paying mine – it is difficult to cost/benefit that, when the nice pension at the age of 55 (young by today’s standards) is factored in. Your master of education – good degree, most likely upped your salary by $5000 per year for career. If your degree was in history, math, english, biology – i would be more apt to concur that it substantially increased your subject knowledge of what you teach – the education degree should have been trumped by your classroom experience – the key is the CRCT scores – are the last 3 years higher than the 3 prior to you earning your degree? If not, then the cash incentive did not provide the expected taxpayer return. Finally, i do not think the CRCT tests would control salary, unless tied to bonus – you have 100% of your kids pass, I’d give you $10,000 bonus, probably all the way down to 90% passing rate; anything under 80% passing rate, your teaching methods would undergo stricter scrutiny.
Paddy O
September 28th, 2010
6:50 pm
I have never said the job was easier, but in concurrence with an earlier post, it is easier to teach kids prior to their teenage years when they have a better notion of authority. I respect the job teachers do, I do not appreciate thought teachers feigning the old fashion notion that they have low paying jobs. Your $49,000 is probably about what a lot of police & fire chiefs make in your small towns – where the cost of living is pretty low – for both them and the teachers that live there.
Paddy O
September 28th, 2010
6:54 pm
Rosie the answer is genetics and environment. Unfortunately, in post-feminist US many people see a disconnect between marriage & child rearing. Thus those kids in single parent household miss a whole lot of parental input & guidance, plus a lot of suffering vis a vis poverty impacts. I don’t think teachers can overcome much of this – but, what % of the kids in a 25 student classroom fall into that category? Over 10%?
Paddy O
September 28th, 2010
6:56 pm
You should also know that your $49,000 is about double what a starting state trooper makes in GA.
Paddy O
September 28th, 2010
7:02 pm
plus, the whole thrust of this article – that the exposure of this poor gentlemen as a potentially below average teacher prompted his suicide does a fine job of conclusion jumping. If that was the only stimulus for his action, then his mental state was earnestly in question. It is also an emotional appeal to the masses to reject further investigation into how to judge a teacher’s performance – are they actually great teachers or crummy teachers? I would prefer the CRCT as a measuring test – if this is objected to, why? If the CRCT is bad, for whatever reason, fix it. If we have too many non-college bound kids taking the SAT, thus driving down the states’ SAT average, take corrective action. As it sits, it makes the GA public school system look like it is not achieving, and I know that is not true – I have a good friend who is an attorney, graduated from a local school system; he knows the top rated medical student at Mercer, who also graduated from the same local school system.
Paddy O
September 28th, 2010
7:05 pm
it also appears that many teachers on this blog have fairly thin skin.
Jordan Kohanim
September 28th, 2010
7:08 pm
This article (and the majority of the debat that accompanies it) hurts my soul. My question is this: do you think GA would ever move to publish test scores of teachers?
Jordan Kohanim
September 28th, 2010
7:09 pm
*debate
Teacher
September 28th, 2010
7:16 pm
Paddy O,
Then teaching would be a raise for you! Come join the teaching ranks and you can see for yourself. I realize that my salary is double what many starting police officers, fire fighters, and other public servants earn. I started teaching at $27,000. I earn every penny of my paycheck and I’m not going to allow cynical people to cheapen my work.
Over the past three years, 100% of my students have passed all portions of the CRCT. Last year, 79% of my students exceeded on the reading/math portions of the CRCT. All four of my students who entered my classroom having not passed the CRCT in their previous grade level earned passing scores. I have taught four grade levels: sixth, fifth, second, and first.
Long time teacher
September 28th, 2010
7:22 pm
I have no idea who Paddy O or other such persons are, but I can tell from their comments they are ignorant of the demands, the rewards, the challenges of educating young people. Their comments also demonstrate their lack of civility and respect for teachers. I have been a high school teacher for 34 years (and yes I could have retired at 30). The profession is more demanding now than it was when I began. I continue to do it because I believe that education is vital to the health and future of this country. For those of you who think teachers are overpaid and have an easy job, please send us your names and phone numbers. We will arrange for you to “teach” for just a week. Walk a mile in our shoes (and you will be surprised). Oh, the financial pay and benefits: it is not what you think. Check your facts before making such claims.
NW Geogia teacher
September 28th, 2010
7:24 pm
@ Paddy O: How would you suggest teachers “fix” CRCT?
Teacher
September 28th, 2010
7:30 pm
Paddy O,
As far as your question about the percentage of students who fall into the category of poverty/single parenting, it depends on where you are teaching. In my classroom, this is about 50%.
Clayco Parent
September 28th, 2010
7:36 pm
My heart goes out to this man and his family… for whatever reason he felt he could no longer cope and gave up, which alot of folks do on a daily basis, albeit most NOT to the extreme that this fellow went to.
On the subject of debate that has ensued:
I think Paddy O would make a most excellent professor of mathematics. For he seems to have a love affair with numbers for the sake of numbers. No need to fuss with the accuracy of what each number represents as long as the basic math “adds up” then the world is nice and tidy. Lots of deep rooted resentment there also, so perhaps a seasonal assignment as a postal worker would round out those luxuriant summers off? Just a thought.
teacher&mom
September 28th, 2010
7:43 pm
@Jordan..Let’s hope that if GA ever publishes a list of ineffective teachers, they read this study from the U.S. Department of Education. I wonder if the LA Times didn’t take the time to read through the article? Since Arne Duncan praised the LA Times for publishing the names, maybe he didn’t read the publication from his own department.
“Type I and II error rates for teacher-level analyses will be about 26 percent if three years of data are use for estimation. This means that in a typical performance measurement system, more than 1 in 4 teachers who are truly average in performance will be erroneously identified for special treatment, and more than 1 in 4 teachers who differ from average performance by 3 months of student learning in math or 4 months in reading will be overlooked. In addition, Type I and II error rates will likely decrease by only about one half (from 26 to 12 percent) using 10 years of data.”
http://ies.ed.gov/ncee/pubs/20104004/pdf/20104004.pdf
teacher&mom
September 28th, 2010
8:10 pm
Here’s a link to Diane Ravitch’s recent speech to teachers in LA where she addresses value-added measures.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_HwI6S92Eo
Jordan Kohanim
September 28th, 2010
8:16 pm
teacher&mom
Thanks for the link! I’ll pass this along with a slightly warmer heart.
@ Paddy O
September 28th, 2010
8:25 pm
I’m back! And, no, I don’t use my real name, because the one time I did, I ended up testifying in court.
True Story.
What I asked earlier, and what you seem to skirt around, is the question, “Do you have a college degree?” Because if you don’t, all comparisons are off (as are comparisons to many of the other jobs you listed). When teachers complain about being underpaid (which I actually didn’t – I was merely correcting your numbers with my reality), it is in comparison to others WITH DEGREES. When you look at that, and even factor in days worked, teachers ARE indeed one of the lower paid professions (social work and journalism come up short, too). This isn’t my whining; this isn’t my suffering from a thin skin; this is simply to help you understand.
@ Paddy O
September 28th, 2010
8:27 pm
Forgot to mention, Paddy O, you do realize that most teachers will not draw Social Security, right?
@ Paddy O
September 28th, 2010
8:29 pm
I also wanted to add that if you think property taxes are high here, don’t ever move up north. We pay about a third of what a lot of northern states pay.
@ Paddy O
September 28th, 2010
8:33 pm
Another thought – play long, my friend, play along…
You wrote, “the key is the CRCT scores – are the last 3 years higher than the 3 prior to you earning your degree?”
You realize that that is a completely invalid comparison, right? Year to year comparisons of completely different kids really don’t show anything at all – let alone the fact that the teacher may change subjects or grades, may teach gifted or SPED one year and not another, or may teach at a transient school where the kids move mid-year.
Joey M
September 28th, 2010
8:34 pm
Sonny and his Race to the Top crew will have teachers dropping like flies, soon!
another comment
September 28th, 2010
8:36 pm
Paddy O, you are ignorant and jealous. Stop bashing others and get a life. The average starting salary of many college graduates is $50,000K a year. Why would I as a parent, be willing to pay for a degree for my children or encourage them to go into debt to obtain a college degree a career that did not start out over $50,000 per year.
Just because you are not earning more money, is no reason other people should not.
The taxes in Georgia are too low. The infrastructure is failing, our schools are failing. We have no jobs. This state thought that we could survive on growth and that people would continue to move into this state. That people would move here for low wage jobs, well now those jobs have been offshored. The education system has done nothing to train the society of georgia for skilled jobs. The whole white and black culture of Georgia, along with the importation of the hispanics that beleive it is OKay to drop out of high school.
I am a best and brightest import from up North to Georgia, my high school did not have have the drop outs like here. Maybe 1 or 2 out of 350 students, everyone stayed the entire 4 years together.
done teaching
September 28th, 2010
9:44 pm
Teaching in Georgia is the pits. Teaching in Clayton County is the abyss of hell. All of the “so called facilitators” need classroom positions to reduce the class sizes. Where do teachers with 30 plus students get the time to do all the paper work that you want, EH, CL, and JL.
abacus2
September 28th, 2010
9:56 pm
Paddy-O, please come to my classroom and teach for a week. I don’t make anywhere near $60,000 a year, over 130 children cross my threshhold every day, and I have a useless parapro for 1 class. I have way more than a few kids who don’t care and get no support from their parents. I teach 3 children who are English speaking but are fuctionally illiterate. I work my behind off to make sure that I do everything I can to help my kids learn and so far their test scores have been way above state average. But I’m tired of dealing with people like you who have no idea what they’re running off at the mouth about. I’m tired of being held accountable for things beyond my control. I’m also leaving the profession as soon as I complete my PhD (in a field that is NOT education). So Paddy-O, please get certfied to teach in my place; you seem to know it all and I’m sure you’ll do just fine – if you make it to Christmas.
abacus2
September 28th, 2010
10:04 pm
One more point – police officers and firefighters do not need a 4 year degree at entry level as teachers do.
Rational Man
September 28th, 2010
10:08 pm
@ Maureen, Teacher GA, others blaming this tragedy on the LA Times’ editorial decision to quantify something badly in need of quantification: Let’s remember (or look up!) the difference between proximate and ultimate causes — the rating may have been the straw that broke the camel’s back, but that doesn’t make it the “real” culprit. Rational Man has struggled, and struggles eternally, with depression; Rational Man has an inner rogues’ gallery as well. This could, and should, have been prevented long before the Times number-crunchers input test score one.
@ Paddy O: I’ve noticed a correlation, in general, between opposition to the public school system and deviation from standard English grammar and punctuation. Forgive my forwardness, but I’m wondering: did you have a personal bad experience with public schools as a child? We don’t have to be enemies; I’d like to help you, but you need to let me.
Rational Man, away!
Miss Scarlett
September 28th, 2010
10:15 pm
To Paddy O: How many years have you taught? Zero you say….that’s what I thought…case closed.
Sad state of education
September 28th, 2010
10:41 pm
The problem is not teachers. Education has no value to many of the children that public schools serve. Politically correct people, and yes most Democrats, fail to acknowledge that a group of people have ruined the public school system. Why is it necessary to provide dental care and day care in a public school? Teachers are not the parents, they are teachers. Loading them down with tons of paperwork is not the answer to improving education. Lengthening the school year is not the answer. Most of the children have the latest gaming technology, so it is apparent that they can afford books. They make choices, so they have to live with their choices. Stop blaming teachers and hold parents accountable. I hope that the next governor will require parents to be accountable.
Concerned 1
September 28th, 2010
10:53 pm
The stress got to him. It put me in the hospital five years ago. They put our student’s scores up in faculty meeting. They hired a Teach for America Teacher after school had been in session a month. They split our classes and sent all the advanced students to her. She didn’t know the subject. I taught her, her students through an extra 15 hours of uncompensated tutorials each week including Saturdays. My principal didn’t know that I was teaching her about Production Possibility Graphs and Supply and Demand. When the scores came back; he showed a 70% pass rate next to her and 30% next to me. After 20 years, other teachers were whispering about me. Kids were tellling me I was a bad teacher. I couldn’t believe it. It hurt me terribly. I wrote a scathing letter to my principal and the classes were evenly matched for the next two years. I just taught to the test and my scores increased by 50% each year. Hers never reached 70% again. I got sick after that first posting of scores and was hospitalized for an infection that almost killed me. It was my family that supported me and my mother and daughter encouraged me to go back to the profession I loved.
I try not to read all the crap out there. The teacher bashing is unbelievable. I felt unwanted and unthanked but those students that I tutored in the Teach for America Teacher’s class did thank me. They changed my schedule but I had already produced a packet to help students master the standards for the state test. Students and new teachers thanked me for what I did. No one doubted my abilities any longer. And, the principal stopped publishing the scores because my old self had the highest ones…what a bunch of mess. Test scores mean absolutely nothing, nothing, nothing.
It’s a shame what they are doing to us. I see so many sick and weary teachers. After 25 years of awards, fellowships, grants and stupid higher meaningless test scores, I am leaving. I will not let this profession kill me. No more 60 to 70 hour weeks. The 15 hours extra were in the building, then you go home and call parents and take hours to prepare differentiated lessons that address learning styles of each child on a class of 32! NO Way! Free at last, free at last. Thank God almighty, I am free at last. Teach for America, it is yours! Critics it is yours! I can see clearer now, it is going to be a bright, bright sun shiny day. Hello retirement.
Suavez
September 28th, 2010
10:56 pm
There is no shame in not being able to teach black kids. I haven’t heard of anyone doing it successfully without herculean efforts and even then they still score lower than poor asian kids in bad schools.
Concerned 1
September 28th, 2010
11:13 pm
Excuse me, in a class of 32. Yes, I actually had to teach that young girl and tutor her students and she got the credit for what I did. Well they don’t have to riff me, I am gone. My kids aren’t learning anything anymore, they’re just being taught to pass a test. There is no art or joy to this. I have no profession anymore. The kids are in charge. They hear what is said on the t.v. They yell at us and say they will tell on us and because they never learned to read and are in 12th grade, they say we can’t teach because they don’t understand anything. Poor kids. It is not their fault. They are not being raised to be motivated about learning for the sake of learning. Sorry everyone, you know the truth teachers. Divide and conquer; young against the old teachers; Black against White; all those investors in test making companies also have stakes in the media so they keep doing stories to make money no matter who they hurt. A house divided amongst itself can’t stand. You already know how the story of public education if it keeps on like this will end…or not. Whatever.
Michelle B.
September 28th, 2010
11:19 pm
Oh Patty -O,
Let’s just blame teachers for EVERYTHING wrong in society. Until NCLB address childhood poverty & healthcare and other social issues, it truly has no merit or reliability to hold teachers & schools accountable for 5 days of test scores. I guess I’m just supposed to “overcome” all the ELLs that I teach on a daily basis, and magically get them to grade level in 1 year once they enter US schools, or perhaps my ELLs who were born here and really need other services, I’m just supposed to “overcome” this too (I guess you and others might suggest I should attempt to deport them as well – hello it’s called Plyler vs. Doe), all for 58,000 a year (-30,000 in college loans … both graduate & undergraduate) in 180 days with 3 less planning days. Oh yea, and there’s no lunch break (middle school eats with the kids), few if any bathroom breaks, and no two 15 min. breaks either, like most 9-5 hourly jobs have. Oh yea and if you’re sick you have to show up, leave some plans, and spend hours calling subs. What job asks employees to do that? Seriously. Our pay is for 190 days minus furlough days divided by 12 months no matter how many hours we work including weekend school events as well, which aren’t included in the 190 days. GET IT. Clearly it’s been awhile since you’ve been in the system. My benefits like most teachers have gotten worse over the last 15 years now, and my TRS retirement … how much did teachers LOSE during the economic downfall. Oh yea and there’s no vacation days … teachers can’t just go to Disney whenever they feel like it, they’re bound by the BOE’s calendar.
Ole Guy
September 29th, 2010
2:54 am
Before remarking on this terrible tragedy, I wish to extend condolence to the loved ones Rigoberto leaves behind.
Seen It All, you could have a point. However, you must understand that, oftentimes, we may hold ourselves to such a high standard of performance that, upon the realization that, for whatever reason…real or trumped up…that plateau is not realized, an empty zone may be left within our very fibers of existence.
Yes, Rigoberto may have had some other issues within his life which lent to his decision to take his life. However, I believe this sad story may also serve as a warning of the fallacy in putting too much of one’s heart and soul into what has become known as a calling. While this may smack of selfishness and a focus on self interests, I believe it may also point to the human need to maintain a psychological balance. After all…and, for just a moment, let’s minimize the holy grail of “it’s for the children”…IT’S JUST A JOB!
When all is said and done, people, at the end of the day, no matter how you occupy your waking hours, IT’S JUST A JOB! Perhaps one of the most pressing needs of the human spirit, outside of good ole Maslow’s hierarchy, is a need to have a sense of control over one’s destiny. That control, of course, through life’s events, often becomes challenged and endangered. I truly believe a component of maintaining that psychological balance is realizing that…IT’S, BASICALLY, JUST A JOB!
Rest In Peace, Rigoberto
Clayco Parent
September 29th, 2010
6:39 am
You’re pretty smart for an Ole Guy, Bravo!
Paddy O
September 29th, 2010
9:37 am
teacher – as you deftly point out, you are a great teacher – you would benefit highly from my system of having a $10,000 bonus from CRCT evaluation. However, the $$ the state provided for post graduate degrees in my system would not be as great as the $5000 given out during the heyday – it would be more likely $1000.
Paddy O
September 29th, 2010
9:50 am
Others – as I have said, two of the teachers on this blog have provided very educational information – teacher & Vince; others who are mad at what I have stated why? Because someone does not walk lock step in your narrative of how underpaid and underappreciated you are? Regarding the “we have a college degree so we are special”, and it cost us so much – I assume most of you were Hope folks, no? So, your education did not set you back so much. To the damn Yankee – Georgians are not sheep like the fools in the northeast with their addiction to unions and exceptionally high taxes – my brother has a similar house to the one i have here in NJ, and he pays over $10,000 a year in property tax – so please, do not wish that upon Georgia. another comment – you are a little too in love with yourself. If your kid grew up here with a B average, he/she could go to GA Tech or UGA and not pay tuition – pretty nifty state policy, no?
Paddy O
September 29th, 2010
9:51 am
Rational man – you failed your name – you insist on proper grammar on a disposable blog? please, give your ego a rest.
Teacher GA
September 29th, 2010
10:39 am
I think we need to evaluate what happened to Paddy O. That might give some indication of what we might need to improve on.
Cissy
September 29th, 2010
11:09 am
Sorry, it sounds to me as though this poor man’s death, which was NOT NECESSARILY a suicide, has been hijacked by frightened teachers’ union representatives to drum up support for continuing to hide news of teacher effectiveness ratings. It is extremely irresponsible to speculate on the causes of this man’s death, and inexcusable to attempt to tie it to any “despondence” he may or may not have felt over his ratings. The reported facts about this man’s death do not support either of the conclusions above. This whole story seems like a tissue of speculations and exaggerations. I feel very sorry for the man’s family and for his students, who may be feeling responsible for failing to “improve” enough under his tutelage.
high school teacher
September 29th, 2010
11:11 am
Teachers can’t draw social secutiry? That’s a new one to me… Why won’t most teachers draw SS? I get my annual SS statements that show how much I can expect to receive each month when I turn 62 or 65 and decide to draw SS.
Paddy O
September 29th, 2010
12:25 pm
Michele – you are the perfect example of the thrust of my comments – you make $58,000 a year for 190 days of contract work. You very weakly assert that you get no vacation time? In what reality? Please present to us your scheduled “schools closed” periods – summer? Around Thanksgiving? Around Christmas? A spring break around Easter? In my years of working, over 30 years, I have never had a job where you received the mandated 15 minute breaks. No where have I claimed teachers are to blame for societies wrongs – that is mostly due to utopian idealists – including in large part feminism – since the 60’s. But, I do have a problem with well paid, well compensated teachers, most of whom live in rural areas with low costs of living whining in just the precise manner you have – and, your salary #ers are in line with my previous statements – thank you.
Paddy O
September 29th, 2010
12:29 pm
abacus – did you enjoy your tantrum? you did not in any way address any of my assertions – just another protest of an opinion that does not run parallel to the narrative many teachers and their professional association trots out for their own propoganda – and political purposes (personal benefit). Michele adequately demonstrated what my comments have objected to, and I feel is far more preponderant than should be, considering the circumstances.
Paddy O
September 29th, 2010
12:31 pm
also, if teachers look at median income in the counties they work in, 90% most likely exceed that wage – even for household.
Paddy O
September 29th, 2010
12:35 pm
Teacher GA continues the typical liberal attack against opposing opinion – personal attack & slander, as opposed to data designed to be persuasive. It indicates a lack of evidence to support their position, thus the insults, condescension and dismissive attitude – as displayed by Miss Scarlet and Bruce Kendall.