Realizing the Dream: Doesn’t it help all of us for immigrant children to attend college? Pass the Dream bill.

UPDATE: Today, a state committee recommended to the Georgia Board of Regents that illegal immigrants be barred from attending the University of Georgia, Georgia Tech and any other public college that doesn’t have the room to admit all qualified applicants. The committee also recommended that all Georgia colleges verify every admitted student seeking in-state tuition to determine if the student is legally in the country. Read more here.

The best way to judge a nation is to examine how it treats its children and that means all children, even those whose parents arrived by boat or border crossing.

Among the student advocacy groups rallying for the Dream Act passage is the Georgia Dreamers, which has held rallies around the state.

Among the student advocacy groups rallying for the Dream Act passage is the Georgia Dreamers, shown here at a July press conference.

Our country loses when we enact immigration policies that deny educational opportunities to children to punish their parents. Every educated American is a boon to our economy, our health and our future. My own grandparents were legal immigrants from Italy who eked out a living. Yet, all their grandchildren are college educated, home-owning, taxpaying citizens. We now have Wall Street traders, doctors, corporate lawyers, architects and teachers on the family tree.

And that evolution owes to one thing: Higher education.

Today, I participated in a conference call about the federal Development, Relief, and Education for Alien Minors or Dream Act, which broadens access to higher education for immigrant children and puts them on a path to citizenship. The Senate could vote on the bill this week, although it is attached to the Defense Authorization bill, which has run into problems today.

While the Supreme Court ruled in 1982 that illegal immigrants are entitled to a public school education, nothing in the ruling addresses their college status. Now,  states have the power to determine whether or not to admit illegal aliens into college and what to charge them.

Georgia law requires illegal immigrants to pay out-of-state tuition. But there is an effort under way to bar these students from public colleges, growing out of the high-profile case of a Kennesaw State University student whose traffic stop sparked a firestorm when it was revealed she was paying in-state tuition.

The Dream Act grants conditional status for six years to undocumented students who arrived in this country before age 16, lived here at least five consecutive years,  graduated high school and are of good moral character.

During that six years, the student would have to graduate from a two-year community college or complete at least two years of a four-year degree, or serve in the U.S. military to qualify to apply for permanent resident status. (These students could not receive federal higher education grants, and states could still set college tuition higher for them.)

“It represents a path out of poverty and a path to success. It is an investment our country should make for all children,” said Marielena Hincapié, executive director of the National Immigration Law Center.

“I believe it is not only the right thing to do for these students, it is also the right thing to do for our country,” said U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan, who was on the call. “In this economy, we need everyone trained and prepared. These children were brought here by their parents, often as infants without making any choice of their own. It will stop punishing people for the accidental circumstances of their birth. America is the only country they know. They have done exactly what was asked of them in their schools. Our country needs the benefit of their skills, their talents and their passion.”

The Dream Act has passed twice out of the Senate judiciary committee and passed the full Senate in 2006 with the support of 11 Republicans, all of whom remain in office, said Duncan, pledging his backing and that of President Obama to its passage.  If passed, the act would immediately impact 726,000 students, 100,000 of whom live in Arizona.

Michael Crow, president of Arizona State University, said he has met hundreds of undocumented students in his state and has come to admire their drive and their abilities. Why is America hiring talent abroad while denying an education to bright children within its own communities, he said.

“You want to tap into that talent. My own view of the fairness doctrine is that high achievement, particularly by children, ought to be recognized, regardless of the national political debate,” he said. “We are talking about children and we are talking about fairness. Appallingly, we have allowed the mistreatment of children to go on for political gain.”

Crow said Dream Act passage by Congress “would send a tremendous signal that individuals with talent who have worked their way into successful pathways are now pulled out of the bigger immigration debate and their lives can move forward while immigration issues are resolved over the longer term.”

John J. DeGioia, president of Georgetown University, echoed his Arizona colleague’s comments: “These are young people who aren’t here by their own choice.  They have played by our rules. They have succeeded by our rules. For everything we stand for as a people….for the deepest values we stand for…they should be able to continue their development in this country.”

Myrtle Dorsey, chancellor of Baton Rouge Community College and chair-elect of the American Association of Community Colleges, said many of these students do not realize they are undocumented until they apply to college. “They have English as their first language. They are actively part of the fabric of this country. They have succeeded in school,” she said.

One such student is Diana Rebolledo, 20, of Michigan. Her parents brought her to the United States from Mexico when she was 9, and she became a varsity soccer player, a band member and honor student in high school. “I never questioned my father’s decision,” she said. “He wanted to give us a better life. In my home country, that was not an option.”

(For a great story on a local student in this same situation, please read Laura Diamond’s piece on Miriam Torres.)

So, she worked as hard as her parents. But while her high school classmates talked about college in their senior year, Rebolledo remained silent, not wanting to reveal that as an undocumented student, she could not afford college since she was not eligible for aid and would be required to pay much higher tuition because of her illegal status.

After graduating high school, working and saving her money, she is now in community college and part of the One Michigan student campaign to pass the Dream Act. (The Georgia student advocacy group is called the Georgia Dreamers.)

What sense does it make to hold back ambitious young people like Diana Rebolledo, who wants to be a teacher? She cannot be blamed for coming to America 11 years ago.  Her parents came here for the same reasons as my grandparents, to create a better life for their children. Yes, my grandparents immigrated legally, but they had an ocean between them and America. They couldn’t pack their bags and walk to a new beginning.

I wonder how many desperate parents would cross a border illegally to feed their starving children?

I would. And I bet most of you would, too.

153 comments Add your comment

Eddie R.

September 21st, 2010
3:25 pm

No, the Dream Act does not benefit all immigrants. It will only benefit those that came to the U.S. 5 years before its enactment, that is before September of 2005, that is if the bill passes this month. Not only that, but they also have to have been 16 or younger before the year 2005 and aren’t older than 35. This is only going to help nearly 700,000 students. Barely anything when you keep in mind that the average high school graduating class consists of 4.3 million students every year! Keep the Dream Act alive. It’s the right thing to do!
Read http://dreamacts.blogspot.com to see through the eyes of an American in all but papers.

Daniel J

September 21st, 2010
3:31 pm

IF THERE IS A DRAFT THEY CAN GO FIGHT FOR THEIR COUNTRY. DON’T COUNT ON THE UNDOCUMENTED POPULATION. BEING AGAINST THE DREAM ACT IS BEING AGAINST THE DRAFT FOR UNDOCUMENTED PEOPLE

WE lost our way

September 21st, 2010
3:35 pm

OMG- I thought your article on Ole Miss mascot was silly.Now this.Let’s just give away our country to any one and everyone. My grandparents were immigrants from Ireland. But they came legally!!!!! What is it about giving something to someone who is not following the law of the land?By the way, they leave Mexico because of the lack of laws and they come here to break the law. Education is for everyone in America as long as their are Americans Legally!!!!!!

Maureen Downey

September 21st, 2010
3:43 pm

@We Lost, I would bet that if your and my Irish ancestors could have walked across a border into America, they would have. Conditions were quite bleak. And, by the way, I saw a fascinating display of editorial cartoons from the early 1900s in which newspaper cartoonists portrayed the Irish immigrants as lawless and lazy. (They drew them as grotesque Leprechauns.) So, the legal status of our ancestors from Ireland did not spare them the disdain of “real” Americans at the time who resented them and saw them as freeloaders.
Now, two generations later, the grandchildren of those Irish immigrants are saying the same thing about today’s Mexican immigrants.
Maureen

Diana

September 21st, 2010
3:43 pm

The DREAM is DEAD, as it should be. Harry Reid has shown again that he will do whatever pandering and butt kissing he needs to do, even to illegal aliens, to gain votes. The Dems are using the Mexicans only for their own selfish causes. Reid and the Dems KNEW that the Dream Act would not pass, as it hasn’t for the last 10 years. Any bills for immigraton reform will die as Americans have said time and time again, we do not want another amnesty (which the DREAM Act is) and we expect our immigration laws to be enforced.

Anon

September 21st, 2010
3:44 pm

What does your grandparents have to do with illegal immigration? There were no immigration laws when your grandparents arrived in the US. There are today. Offerring higher education to illegal immigrants (yes, children of illegal immigrants are illegal immigrants) constitutes an unfunded liability to the citizens of the US. How can you justify having the citizens of the US pay for their education when illegals do not pay taxes? At least legal immigrants would pay appropriate fees and tuition if they went to the school in the US. Legal immigrants also have to apply for education as well as work visas. Illegals do not. Their cicumvention of the system costs everyone including legal immigrants. Lets also not forget that providing higher education to illegals would force out qualified US citizens at schools with limited enrollments. How can you justify the favoritism of children of illegals over children of legal immigrants and US citizens?

Maureen Downey

September 21st, 2010
3:47 pm

OK Diana, Beyond that political rhetoric, what do you want to do with the children who came here as infants, attended school, did well and now want to go to college and become productive Americans? These are kids who grew up as American as you did.
Maureen

Orphans only

September 21st, 2010
3:58 pm

If the Dream Act had a condition that the child is an orphan, it would have a chance, I think. Otherwise, the parents should repatriate their children to their homeland.

Why should we do anything?

September 21st, 2010
4:01 pm

Why should the U.S. do anything to help? They already gamed the system and got a U.S. taxpayer funded education through high school. They are asking too much.

Carina

September 21st, 2010
4:01 pm

“Lets also not forget that providing higher education to illegals would force out qualified US citizens at schools with limited enrollments.” – - Only the most qualified students would attend. This has no impact on the standards of a school. “constitutes an unfunded liability to the citizens of the US” – - Not exactly. Many illegal immigrants pay taxes…sales taxes, income taxes, real estate taxes, etc. – - – “we do not want another amnesty (which the DREAM Act is)” – - – No, the DREAM Act is not amnesty by any means. Do you even know what amnesty means?

Congrats, it's a boy!

September 21st, 2010
4:04 pm

How many babies must be born right off the plane, in the airport or on the way from the airport before people GET IT? I work in a metro hospital and I have FIRST hand experience with the women that arrive to give birth after having landed in this country, Not ALL straight from the airport mind you, but not having been here not even a couple of weeks in most cases, and believe me, they aren’t starving. They come here to have their “anchor” babies (yes, I said it) then automatically apply for every type of welfare assistance that exists. Just one of many examples….If you spend the first few minutes of your time at the hospital on the phone with the airline trying to locate your Louis Vuitton luggage, GO HOME and raise your child. These women do not hesitate to tell anyone that asks that they’ve come simply to deliver their baby here. They have MANY MANY family members here and in their home countries and have no intention of seeking employment or contributing anything to society other than more babies. It’s these blatant abuses of our law that frustrate American citizens to the point of having no sympathy at all for the immigrants that come here out of true need instead of opportunism. For those that are truly shocked at the strong negative emotions people express against such things as the Dream Act, consider how many of us have had numerous personal experiences with immigrants raping our system with abandon.

Carina

September 21st, 2010
4:05 pm

“By the way, they leave Mexico because of the lack of laws and they come here to break the law.” – - Actually, many illegals I have met left Mexico because of lack of food and jobs…not lack of laws. They had nothing, their families were starving and not a roof to live under. The worst poverty-stricken town in the US is still rich when compared to some of the poverty in Mexico. They were hungry, plain and simple…and I dare say that many of us Americans have never felt “real” hunger.

Lou

September 21st, 2010
4:05 pm

@Maureen Downey
While it is easy for liberals to pick apart people whose grandparents were Irish or Italian immigrants, what do you have to day to me, a son of Korean immigrants? My parents spent years and money to come here the right way. My mom is trying to sponsor my uncle to come here and the whole process will take 7 years and cost thousands of dollars. And also, I know many immigrants from Asia and Europe who came here on student visas and stayed here on work permits and are going through hell trying to become citizens.

How is it fair that people who circumvented the system are being put in line in front of people who do it the right way? How is it fair that the illegals are put ahead in line for citizenship solely for political gain?

And lastly, how is someone with a high school diploma and 2 years of community college a contributing member to society anyway that deserves citizenship? That sounds like every stoner I knew in high school. At least make it required to have a degree from a four year.

David Sims

September 21st, 2010
4:11 pm

I certainly disagree with you on this issue, Maureen.

Maureen Downey

September 21st, 2010
4:13 pm

@David, And so will your kindred spirit Lee. He is definitely going to disagree on this. Where are you Lee?
Maureen
Still think this is crystal clear – it benefits every one of us to have more kids living in this country attend college. Only 36 percent of Georgians hold college degrees. The goal is 60 percent. We are not going to get there by barring children of illegal immigrants – children who committed no crime and who attended Georgia schools and did well — from going to college.
I think the expression is biting off your nose to spite your face.

Autum F.

September 21st, 2010
4:15 pm

Not everyone had the same opportunity as you “we lost our way.” Just because someone is illegal doesn’t mean they should be treated like gargage. Most illegals work twice if not three times as hard as American Citizens have to work. FYI Mexicans aren’t the only illegal people in this country. There are people all around the world who come to America seeking an opportunity to better themselves, not knowing it is extremely difficult to go about that dream. Besides, it’s not like children comprehend they are breaking a law by entering the U.S illegally simply because they are CHILDREN!! They have no other choice but to follow their parents. Why punish innocent hard working immigrants when what you should be concerned about are all the gangbangers, rapist, sex offenders, and criminals who don’t do anything but make the U.S. a very dangerous place to live in. Some say that all illegals do is take jobs away from Americans and feed off of taxes that Americans pay, but in reality they work jobs that Americans are disgusted to do. Illegals not only pay taxes but dont have the benefit of recieving what they have worked so hard for simply because they are illegal. It’s repulsive just to see that people are so IGNORANT. AMERICA IS A COUNTRY MADE UP OF IMMIGRANTS. If it wasn’t for immigrants who fought the Native Americans we wouldn’t all be here including you ignorant racist venamous close minded people (specifically directed to “we lost our way”!!!!!!!)

jetsabel

September 21st, 2010
4:28 pm

I am an undocumented student; I graduated with honors and in the top ten percent of my high school. I had to compete with students that had every door opened for them and little was opened for me. I came to this country when I was four years old by the time I was six years old I was considered gifted in English. By the time I graduated from high school I was the only student who was gifted in both history and science. I have also completed hundreds of community service hours and was an intern in a police station. I was in the varsity cross country team; I became a member of the varsity squad and making it to the state championships. I was accepted to into all the universities I applied. On average the tuition for these universities was forty thousand dollars a year, although I did have scholarships it was not enough, I am now attending a community college. Even though, I was not able to attend a four year university i will overcome obstacle that life throws my way. I am American and therefore deserve the rights that anyone else.

Ole Guy

September 21st, 2010
4:31 pm

Any arguement can be cloaked in any manner which either supports or denigrates the issue. Sure, society, IN THEORY, would benefit from an illegal earning…that is, EARNING…a degree. We can all remember the “trickle-down” theory advanced, with much aplomb, in the Reagen years. This very same theory would be applied in this scenario. However, let’s pause for a moment and visit the land of reality.

First and foremost is the issue of two words: IL and LEGAL. Put them together and wadya got…”GIMME AN “IL”…GIMME a “LEGAL”…WADYA GOT? In this land of perpetual pc-ism, we’re constantly redefining issues because we’re affraid someone might become displeased…WHAT THE HELL HAVE WE BECOME? The laughingstock of the globe, that’s what.

Hey, I’ve got an idea…let’s remove ALL vestiges of civilization. Murder would simply become a means of self-expression. Let’s not stiffle that freedom to express one’s self, lest the self esteem issues take a dive. Speeding is perfectly acceptable, for this to serves as an outlet for the over-stressed. Never mind the property damage and altered/lost lives. A small price to pay for the freedom of self-expression. (Does this sound totally rediculous yet? You ain’t seen nothing yet!).

English as a spoken word should be banished under pain of law. Those immigrants, legal and illegal who have earned a degree (which was completely rewritten in the native language of the immigrant scholar, so as not to cause them undue stress) will surely solve the Nation’s problems which have bedeviled us for so long.

Immigrants, legal and illegal, should not have to contend with the “pulling up by the bootstraps” difficulties with which their Ellis Island forefathers had to contend. I’m sure the American taxpayer would gladly fund such educations in order that immigrants, after a lifetime of living within US borders, haven’t taken the initiative to learn six words of pidgeon english, direct their efforts toward molding a better society…RIGHT!

If a citizen of a foreign country wishes to attend a US institution of higher learning…fine. There are/were/used to be procedures. Follow the protocol, play the game, if you will, and all will benefit. Unfortunately, I don’t think that is happening.

I don’t think kids of American parentage would mind if limited seats, resources, etc, were occupied by kids of immigrants, legal or illegal. Why they could go to college in the countries of those who have displaced them…talk about the student exchange concept.

Elisabeth

September 21st, 2010
4:38 pm

Maybe the answer is to change the law that let illegal children go to public school. It should read, ” You (the student) AND your biological/ adoptive parent(s) MUST be LEGAL citizens or residents of the USA/STATE to attend public school. ) That way the babies born here wouldn’t just qualify because they were born here. They (and their parents) would have to be legal residents before you would qualify to go.

We need ot treat education as a privledge not as a right.

Congrats, it's a boy!

September 21st, 2010
4:42 pm

@Autum F. Such extreme generalization is what makes this debate so high in emotion but so low in actual reality. Did someone say we should be treating illegals like garbage? I don’t remember seeing that myself. I do remember reading that folks want illegals to be held to the law, as are the citizens of our country. That sounds fair to me. By saying that illegals work twice or three times as hard as Americans is just plain insulting. Do you know how I work for what I have? What about the other posters here? I think you just insulted ALL the hardworking Americans that choose to work more than one job to provide for their families by insinuating Mexicans work HARDER just because they’re Mexican. And if you think there aren’t any IMMIGRANT gangbangers, rapists, sex offenders and criminals you are too terribly naive for words. The irony is that those immigrant gangbangers, rapists, sex offenders and criminals are being welcomed with open arms by those that think every immigrant comes here to LAWFULLY benefit from the opportunities here. I’ll bet immigrant drug dealers appreciate your generalizations just as much as the innocents looking for a better life.

bootney farnsworth

September 21st, 2010
4:42 pm

Maureen, what part of ILLEGAL is beyond you?

bootney farnsworth

September 21st, 2010
4:43 pm

@ jetsabel

like hell you’re an American.
you’re a thief

bootney farnsworth

September 21st, 2010
4:45 pm

if illegals want to become American citizens, join the military.
give something back to the country you stole from.

Carina

September 21st, 2010
4:45 pm

@ Elisabeth “They (and their parents) would have to be legal residents before you would qualify to go.” – - – Only if the illegals were also prohibited to pay their share of city/state/income taxes that help fund these public schools. Guess what? That will never happen.

Teacher Reader

September 21st, 2010
4:45 pm

Life is about choices. Life isn’t fair. The illegal immigrants came here by choice. They knew what they were doing was illegal, yet they chose to come here any way. My hard working family and the tax dollars that we pay should not go towards helping the illegals out-which to me is giving them handouts. I feel sorry for the children that come here, but these children should be angry with their parents, not America and the laws that America has for people who are illeagal.

This idea smells of the notion of loosing our borders and having a world wide government system, making everything fair for everyone. This means lowering our standard of living, while raising it for other less unfortunate soles. The rich will remain rich and be in power.

Maureen, Look up Obama Deception on You Tube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw). Maybe you’ll understand what the government is up to, and why Americans are up in arms and want their country back.

Carina

September 21st, 2010
4:46 pm

“if illegals want to become American citizens, join the military. give something back to the country you stole from.” – - – Stole what, exactly? Oh, many non-citizens have joined the military…and many have died in service. Just letting you know.

bootney farnsworth

September 21st, 2010
4:48 pm

@ Carina,

I don’t give a damn about how bad Mexico has it.
fixing their economy is not our problem.

Mexico has more than enough oil to reshape its economy
if it wanted to – it doesn’t

Carina

September 21st, 2010
4:48 pm

“Maybe you’ll understand what the government is up to, and why Americans are up in arms and want their country back.” – - – Targeting their anger towards illegals, instead of the “elite” is hardly the way to take your country back.

bootney farnsworth

September 21st, 2010
4:49 pm

illegals who have attended public school here have stolen
tax dollars from legal US citizens. funds intended to educate
our own children, and those who are here LEGALLY.

what part of this is too tough for you Carina?

bootney farnsworth

September 21st, 2010
4:50 pm

tossing out illegals is a good first step, however.

bootney farnsworth

September 21st, 2010
4:50 pm

tossing out the idiots in congress, followed by Obama is a
good second step

Carina

September 21st, 2010
4:50 pm

“I don’t give a damn about how bad Mexico has it. fixing their economy is not our problem. Mexico has more than enough oil to reshape its economy if it wanted to – it doesn’t” – - – Bingo! That is exactly why an independent arm of Congress has proposed to open the border to Mexico! Canada as well, but that’s irrelevant. Wait, does this really piss you off? Then read the report titled, “Building a North American Community” and look at all the wonderful proposals YOUR country’s real leaders are thinking of doing. Not mainstream media of course, but the people of the US should know.

bootney farnsworth

September 21st, 2010
4:52 pm

Carina,

how much of my money do you feel illegals are entitled to?
what opportunites should my kid – legal BTW – lose to illegals

and how does this work in Mexico?
Mexico open its doors, arms, and treasury to illegals from the
US or central America?

Carina

September 21st, 2010
4:52 pm

“illegals who have attended public school here have stolen tax dollars from legal US citizens.” – - The old ‘all illegals don’t pay taxes’ myth. Sorry to burst your bubble bootney, but some illegals do pay income taxes, some pay city/real estate taxes and they all pay…get this…SALES TAXES!

bootney farnsworth

September 21st, 2010
4:54 pm

I don’t really give a damn about what Canada is up to, either.
but as a rule Canadians who come here actually pay their way,
do it legally, and contribute.

sorry, your strawman just burned up.
logic is not on your side here

Carina

September 21st, 2010
4:54 pm

“how much of my money do you feel illegals are entitled to? what opportunites should my kid – legal BTW – lose to illegals” – - – Your child would lose nothing, if he/she is deserving of something.

“and how does this work in Mexico? Mexico open its doors, arms, and treasury to illegals from the
US or central America?” – - Irrelevant. I will not even address Mexico’s immigration policies since they are irrelevant.

bootney farnsworth

September 21st, 2010
4:56 pm

sorry Carina,

that’s about the stupidist thing you could have come up with.
even it that stupid arguement were true – its not – the numbers
just aren’t on your side, LA notwithstanding.

its theft, pure and simple. sorry if it makes you feel bad,
but its illegal AND immoral.

you lose again.

Carina

September 21st, 2010
4:56 pm

“I don’t really give a damn about what Canada is up to, either. but as a rule Canadians who come here actually pay their way, do it legally, and contribute.” – - – No, the proposal comes from American citizens, and states that the Canadian border and the Mexican border should be opened. How did you not understand that comment? “sorry, your strawman just burned up. logic is not on your side here” – - Actually, facts are. Logic doesn’t count in the courtroom. Facts do. That’s how I was raised. I am presenting you with facts in my argument. How have you not comprehended them?

bootney farnsworth

September 21st, 2010
4:58 pm

every cent of my tax dollars, or even my sales taxes, spend supporting illegals in any way is taking money from my family

since I did not agree to give it, and it is diverted from its intended
use – legal citizens and visitors – it theft.

Carina, you like theft?

undocumented American

September 21st, 2010
4:59 pm

I do not know who told the American Public that undocumented aliens dont pay taxes, its a BIG MISCONCEPTION. I am one of these people who the DREAM ACT would benefit. I went to middle, high school and college here in the states. My father, who is an illegal immigrant, is also a home howner. He pays taxes on his home every year and pays taxes to the school district. Every week taxes are deducted from his payroll and SOCIAL SECURITY IS DEDUCTED ALSO_eventhough he has NO SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER, and this has been the case since we arrived here.
I am aware that the obvous percentage of the immigrant community doesnt pay taxes,people who get payed in cash, like construction workers and agricultures, but this is not the mayority. MOST UNDOCUMENTED ALLIENS PAY THEIR TAXES…And the youth who will benefit from this legislation are the children of these tax payers. WE ARE AS AMERICAN AS EVERYONE ELSE. you would not tell my family apart from any other American family.
I know nothing about my country of birth. I cant blame my father for bringing us here to save us from starvation and war, but now that I am an adult, i am aware of my situation and I dont agree with it, and i dont want it. All I want is the opportunity to live here legally…AND BELIEVED ME, I HAVE LOOKED, but current legislation does not allow me to be.
We dont want anything for free, we dont want to take YOUR money,and all of us are willing to pay everything we owe to this beautiful nation. All we need is the chance to do so.

Carina

September 21st, 2010
4:59 pm

“that’s about the stupidist thing you could have come up with. even it that stupid arguement were true – its not – the numbers just aren’t on your side, LA notwithstanding.” – - I didn’t “come up with” anything. I work for the IRS. I know the numbers…so yes, I didn’t make it up.

“its theft, pure and simple. sorry if it makes you feel bad, but its illegal AND immoral.” – - – It doesn’t make me feel bad, at all. You are entitled to be believe what you do, I’m just trying to refute your argument which seems completely biased and based on no factual evidence at all.

“you lose again.” – - I’m trying to enlighten you. Perhaps you are right. You don’t seem enlightened. I do lose, then.

bootney farnsworth

September 21st, 2010
4:59 pm

ah Carina,

most Americans disaprove of the NAFTA and anything to do with it.
and we ARE in the process of getting those fools out of office.

your facts are bad fiction

bootney farnsworth

September 21st, 2010
5:00 pm

at least Carina admits she likes supporting theft.
a start.

Elisabeth

September 21st, 2010
5:01 pm

Wouldn’t it make sense tht if you couldn’t live, work or go to school LEGALLY….you would be on vacation? I don’t mind paying sales tax on items when I go on vacation.

bootney farnsworth

September 21st, 2010
5:01 pm

ever notice how liberals always are trying to
“enlighten” us poor red state clingers?

bootney farnsworth

September 21st, 2010
5:02 pm

sorry Carina, but your facts are fiction and faulty.
BTW – you can have LA if you really want it

bootney farnsworth

September 21st, 2010
5:03 pm

undocumented:

if you mean that, join the military

dadt | TrendyTwits

September 21st, 2010
5:04 pm

[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)US Senate Blocks DREAM Act, DADT RepealProgress IllinoisThe legislation included provisions repealing the military's Don't Ask Don't Tell policy and implementing the DREAM Act. From a press release issued by …Republicans refuse to move forward defense bill with DADT repeal and DREAM ActExaminer.comSenate GOP Votes in Lockstep to Block DADT Repeal, DREAM ActPeople For the American Way (press release)High Stakes for DREAM Act and DADT Repeal in Today's VoteThe Washington IndependentGawker -Habledash (satire) -Democracy Nowall 857 news articles » [...]

bootney farnsworth

September 21st, 2010
5:04 pm

oh, and undocumented

you’re a thief, too

bootney farnsworth

September 21st, 2010
5:07 pm

lets get this straight once and for all.
if yoru not a legal citizen

YOU ARE NOT AMERICAN.
PERIOD.

I understand its a fiction many of you desperately cling to,
but you’re no more an American than you are king of Sudan.