Nathan Deal: Is he ready to move on to the state’s education problems? Read his policy paper to find out.
Nathan Deal unveiled his education plan today, but Georgians have seen a lot of it already.
With GOP legislative leaders standing behind him in the Capitol today, gubernatorial candidate Nathan Deal outlined an education plan that no one will dislike.
Not even his opponent Roy Barnes.
For one thing, several key Deal initiatives already exist in Georgia, including charter high schools with a math and science emphasis, a “Move on When Ready” program for accelerated high school students and incentives to sway more teachers into math and science. There wasn’t much new in Deal’s vision, which was broad enough to be applicable to any state and any party.
I asked him about his notion that we should adapt the Move on When Ready concept to elementary school students by giving them the CRCT when they are “ready” and moving them to the next class if they pass. I asked how he envisioned schools dealing with five or six third graders who passed the CRCT in December.
Would we walk them down the hall and deliver them to the fourth grade teacher? Passing the CRCT doesn’t mean a student can drop into the next grade mid-year and succeed, but Deal contends that smart superintendents and principals will figure out the logistics of how we move young kids when “ready.”
After his presentation, I spoke to two very smart women, state school board Chair Wanda Barrs and Martha Reichrath, deputy state superintendent for standards, instruction, and assessment, who thought that a move on when ready policy, as applied to younger kids, may more likely take the form of differentiated accelerated classwork within their same classroom.
Ideally, I agree that students should not be bound by their birth dates, and that schools should be routing kids all over the building for classes depending on their abilities. So, a bright second grader may go to third grade for math and fourth grade for reading. The problem is that schools lack the scheduling dexterity to assign children by skill set rather than age, and instead we get promises of differentiated instruction within the traditional confines of age-dictated classrooms. (This is not the time or place, but I think truly differentiated instruction is a rare occurrence in today’s overcrowded classrooms.)
Deal’s other big plan was reviewing how Georgia funds schools, which was a big plan for Gov. Perdue as well. But after four years, the Perdue IE2 Commission came back with a flexibility plan rather than a new funding formula, largely because the state didn’t have the money to support a funding formula that assessed what each student needed and paid accordingly.
Deal pledged that his funding committee would be more effective because he would not let them meet endlessly, but would hold them to a deadline of June 2011. He didn’t deal with the snag that any new funding formula would likely cost a lot more since we are now underfunding even the existing QBE formula.
Afterward, I talked to state school chief Brad Bryant who pointed out that the level of detail that I wanted is not what most people are seeking in education policy.
I thought about that in the context of Roy Barnes’ grasp of education, honed by eight years of working on school issues on a national level. If you want details, Barnes has them. But does the public want an education wonk as governor or are they content with someone offering a broader, albeit vaguer, vision?
And is there any real need for the governor to even have a well-crafted, well-articulated education policy since Georgia is now following a federal script?
I talked to Hall County Superintendent Will Schofield at the event – he and Deal are neighbors. He noted that the era is over when a governor can be a Michelangelo with vast expertise across disciplines who can fashion state policies on his own. Deal would surround himself with strong people in education, Schofield said.
Saying he had surveyed teachers to draft his policies, Deal opened his presentation with the statement that teachers told him, “Just give us time to teach and don’t make us teach to a test.” I think that train torpedoed out of the station when Georgia adopted the Common Core State Standards that will bring common tests to our schools. Tests are not going away.
Deal also said teachers told him that they were delighted to be asked their views since no one had ever done so, a statement I was surprised did not lead Perdue top lieutenants Erin Hames or Bert Brantley to leap to their feet in protest since the governor did his infamous teacher survey last fall. (Hames has just joined DOE, but she was Perdue’s policy director and his education ace.)
Take a look at the Deal plan and let us know what you think.
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108 comments Add your comment
Angela
September 8th, 2010
1:17 pm
@TD,
If he only ask those who support his plan well, he did not get a well rounded opinion or facts. How convenient – and we can trust him? Perhaps, this is who we need. We then can all just make things look or sound good to get votes. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, but that is what they do anyway is’nt it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Angela
September 8th, 2010
1:21 pm
CAN I HEAR A VOTE OF ALL CERTIFIED TEACHERS (ONLY – BECAUSE THIS IS ONLY WHAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH NOT PARENTS, STAKEHOLDERS, ETC.) IN THE STATE OF GEORGIA WHO APPROVE OF THIS PLAN?
Ole Guy
September 8th, 2010
1:56 pm
LLL…”Do we want to go back to the old systems of teaching”? WHY THE HELL NOT? If the kid cannot do the “My Dear Aunt Sally (Multiply, Divide, Add, Subtract)”s with pencil and paper, should they simply leave school and go work someplace? WHY THE HELL NOT?
When I was in flight school, if the kid couldn’t land the airplane without endangering the craft, his instructor, and terra firma, not to mention his own hide, he was dropped from the course. It would make absolutely no sense to teach the kid all the fine art mysteries of aviating is he couldn,t perform the most basic of maneuvers.
Would not the very same logic apply to the kids primary education? Let’s be brutally honest…our economy will always require menial labor. The source of that labor would come from those who couldn’t (or wouldn’t), in their youths, learn the basics required to become productive citizens.
This would not be a social punishment, but merely social Darwinism, the survival of the fittest. In attempting to drag the motivationaly unfit through the halls of primary education, the entire system…students, teachers, and taxpayers…LOSES!
LLL
September 8th, 2010
2:05 pm
RE: textbook adoption process
I wish GA stops this whole process. I may be wrong, but most of the “adoption” states are the southern (confederate) states. I think it had (at least originall) something to do with controlling the content of textbooks for our youths.
The whole process requires the publishers to provide different information, and I suppose the reason the original Singapore books weren’t on the list was there was no one in the US who wanted to go through that process – and those people who were selling them only had the right to sell them in the US. A “loop hole” of the process is what Kathy Cox told you – if X number of superintendents like something to be on the list, it gets on. It works both directions. If there are two supers who like, Investigations, for example, it can get on the list even if the series didn’t make it through the official review process. So, there was really no conspiracy to keep the Singapore books off the list.
When we have the next round of adoption – or my preference, abolish the adoption process, at least the one that produced a US version with Singaporean authors might try to be on the list.
Warrior Woman
September 8th, 2010
2:10 pm
I wholeheartedly support applying a “move on when ready” concept to lower grades. Like catlady, I had those options long ago when I was in school. My kids certainly would have benefitted from concepts that have fallen out of educational fashion, like move on when ready, ability grouping, etc.
@Angela – The employees shouldn’t get to tell the people that pay their salaries how the employees will do their jobs or what the employees will do. What other profession is that arrogant?
LLL
September 8th, 2010
2:12 pm
Ole Guy,
I’m not going to use the flight example, but let me use a driving example. We know that the ability to parallel park is a critical component of a driving test – at least it was still the case when my teenagers got their licences within the last 5 years.
Not that far in the future, most cars will probably come with the feature that they will parallel park by themselves. At that point, do we still insist that a person must be able to parallel park in order to obtain a driver’s license – in case the system breaks down?
I really don’t think paper and pencil computation skills are that important any more. We have calculators – most cell phones have them. What if the battery is dead? Well, what if I don’t have a paper or pencil?
I think mental computation (including estimation) is much more important. We need to develop students who have much better sense with numbers and arithmetic. When you get 6893 by multiply 15 and 23 on a calculator, they should be able to say, “Whoa! There is something wrong because the answer should be somewhere around 20×20=400.”
Angela
September 8th, 2010
2:13 pm
@John Trotter,
Did you pick in the cotton fields too with massa behind you! You know we are still just N……… it will never change no matter what we do or say. And, it has gotten worse since the big O got in office.
td
September 8th, 2010
2:19 pm
Ole Guy, Amen. What is really bad is that we do not give these non-college bound students any skills to do anything other than work at McDonald’s. What happened to auto mechanics, Welding, electronic repair? These are skills that can get someone a better job and it is skills we need in society.
Warrior Woman
September 8th, 2010
2:27 pm
@Grade Acceleration is a Success – We had similar experiences with grade acceleration. The pushback from the school system is enormous, but it’s worth the fight. Gifted students are routinely bored out of their skulls because elementary classrooms target the lowest common denominator.
td
September 8th, 2010
2:28 pm
Angela, I did not say only talk to people that support his plan. I said only talk to people that have the same political philosophy. We have had at least 30 years of liberal education philosophy (yes Sonny and Kathy were RINO’s so they count in the number). It is time for some conservative ideas only in education, we sure can not do any worse. I just hope Deal and Dr. Barge are smart enough to clean house of all those Libs at the DOE and start over.
Angela
September 8th, 2010
2:29 pm
@The General,
There is so much hate, dislike, cannot tolerate, no give and take, etc in this world. No matter what political party is in office there will still be those who will find something wrong with what was or is being done. Politics is just that POL LI TICS! Politics is and has always been self serving and will alway be self serving.
Angela
September 8th, 2010
2:33 pm
@TD,
Let’s hope who ever gets in office cleans house (but, I just wonder if we could do without a govorner at all – just some food for thought). However, thanks for the clarity.
Proud Black Man
September 8th, 2010
2:34 pm
@ Angela
“You know we are still just N……… it will never change no matter what we do or say.”
Speak for yourself you self hating aunt jemima.
oldtimer
September 8th, 2010
2:36 pm
Democrats run counties like Clayton, Dekalb, and Fulton….Some of you think they will BETTER!!! than Purdue! Say no to BARNES. He has already fooled us once.
Vince
September 8th, 2010
2:36 pm
Sources? Sure…Here’s the most readily available. The Thomas Fordham Institute grades states’ curricula every few years. Gergia had a C- in 2000. In 2008 or 2009 Georgia received a B+. Georgia’s math curriculum received an A-, I believe. Just Google something like Forham Institute rank og Georgia education. I’ll get more sources to you later…..
Lew
September 8th, 2010
2:44 pm
Calling Erin Hames an Educational Ace is way off. As Perdue’s policy advisor and now Chief of Staff at DOE she is more likley a Joker. Three years of teaching experience and not even in Georgia does not qualify anyone as an Ace for anything, much less something as important as Education Policy. Perdue knew that and it is whay he surrounded himself with young, inexperienced yes people.
Lew
Attentive Parent
September 8th, 2010
2:45 pm
The textbook states are mostly in the South and West and it apparently had to do with how the Civil War and its aftermath were to be treated in textbooks.
Georgia actually is no longer a state where districts must purchase from the list to be reimbursed. I believe the change was made in 1995 after the Cartersville, Saxon Math dispute.
Guess what? No one told the school boards and perhaps many districts so most districts purchasing textbooks to implement the math GPS were told “buy one on the list or use your own money”. I have called this the least known, most relevant education fact in Georgia.
Singapore Math is not on the approved list because it is not an NSF funded text nor is it published by an entity that also publishes such textbook series like Investigations, Connected Math, and Core Plus.
In 2002 UGA got a $10.3 million 5 year grant to establish an “implementation and dissemination” center for these textbooks. Whether the grant was renewed was contingent on its success at that purpose. When Kathy Cox started mirroring the Japanese math standards, she got an urgent letter from certain members of the UGA faculty telling her to slow down implementation, add plenty of process language that was then missing, and to put the NSF textbooks on the state list.
It said that the NSF textbooks did not really teach the content of the standards, but they had been designed with the same spirit and also there would be then be lots of prof devt available for Georgia teachers to show them how to teach the GPS.
If Nathan Deal wants to secure the typically Republican vote in Georgia he ought to be able to rely on he needs to appreciate the level of betrayal many Georgia parents and voters feel over these facts.
No politician, but especially a Republican, should view the right to dictate textbooks or instructional methods as an asset they can sell in return for federal grant dollars. It was true for GIMS, PRISM, and it also needs to be appreciated for RTT.
The primary financing for public education is still state and local by a factor of about 4 to 1. For that money, all the relevant decisions should not be sold away by politicians and administrators to either the feds or the state.
EnoughAlready
September 8th, 2010
2:47 pm
Any organization who would give Georgia’s math curriculum an A-; must have employees educated by the state of Mississippi. : )
Tony
September 8th, 2010
3:08 pm
Maureen said, “The problem is that schools lack the scheduling dexterity…”
This statement struck a nerve with me, not because SCHOOLS lack any desterity, but because our hands are tied due to the rules and regulations of the state. Schools could provide amazing opportunities for children, but our course schedules are dictated by funding formulas, rules for segments, regulations for earning FTE, and on and on and on.
Kids who need extra math time, for instance, can not simply be scheduled for a second period of math. No. The state won’t fund a student to take the same course twice. I could give thousands of examples of the assinine rules that prevent us from providing appropriate services to children.
It is not for lack of dexterity! It is because of the red tape, rules and regulations imposed from the outside.
HS Teacher, Too
September 8th, 2010
3:27 pm
@Vince – Others have already corrected you, but I wanted to chime in as well….
First, GA education is certainly NOT highly touted. Beverly Hall did make some speaches in other states about how the changes they made resulted in tremendous gains in scores (of CRCT). However, we now know that those gains were due to cheating and had nothing to do with their ‘revolutionary way of teaching.’ That is very embarrassing to GA and to honest educators in GA. In addition, recall that SACS pulled the certifiaction of Clayton Co recently and is about to do so in DeKalb Co (and I’m sure that APS will follow). SACS rarely does this to any school system in the nation and for GA to have one or more is highly horrible.
Second, making AYP has everything to do with funding. The federal government makes rules regarding AYP which are the strings to the education dollars. If a school or school system does not make AYP for X number of consecutive years, many penalties kick in – and the money is tied to those penalties being implemented. The State of GA and the republican leadership have wholly adopted all of this crap which is why I totally blame the 8 years of republican leadership in GA.
GA did not have to accept the dollars or be forced to adhere to the crazy rules. GA could have said “no thanks” and made education a true model for the nation. Instead, we are following down the road like lemmings to the ledge towards AYP death all for the sake of some federal money.
Perdues recent “award” that he “won” for GA education has even more strings and more rules and more restrictions to follow. The money is all the republicans cared about.
Why? Because the republican platform is no secret. It is to destroy public education and why not take all the $$$ from the federal government in the meantime? With the destruction of public education, the republicans can then push for their voucher system which is nothing more but transferring public tax dollars to the wealthy.
LLL
September 8th, 2010
3:39 pm
@AP,
You are wrong about the reason why the Singapore Math was (is?) not on the list. To get on the list, the publisher must take the first step – or find a couple of nice supers who will recommend it. The Thomases (I believe) who set up singaporemath.com were just selling the books in the US. They could not represent the publisher. The books weren’t in use in the Singapore then so it would have been a great opportunity for the publisher to dump whatever was left. I suppose they could have tried to befriend a couple of supers, but obviously they didn’t.
It was a news to me that districts no longer have to purchase books on the list to get fully reimbursed. Are you really sure about that? I think they used to reimburse items not on the list almost case-by-case ways. I’m suspecting that a district has always been reimbursed at least partially even when they did get books not on the list.
Another option districts had was not to purchase the books in the adoption year. Some districts did wait a year or two before they chose their math series, and I think that was a smart move.
Angela
September 8th, 2010
4:03 pm
Proud Black Man
September 8th, 2010
2:34 pm
@ Angela
“You know we are still just N……… it will never change no matter what we do or say.”
Speak for yourself you self hating aunt jemima.
******************************************************************************************************************
Ok! Worser………………………………………..
Angela
September 8th, 2010
4:16 pm
@Warrior Woman
Angela – The employees shouldn’t get to tell the people that pay their salaries how the employees will do their jobs or what the employees will do. What other profession is that arrogant?
I was not who ask teachers it was Barnes and Deal. Just for the record they were asking what are the needs of education as them being certified teachers. Unlike, most bosses they don’t know how to perform the jobs of their employees. But, as educated certified trained and experienced teachers we DO know better of the needs of our students than the political wanna be’s and know it all’s. Butttttttttttttttttt, there is not one person on this BLOG that has volunteered to come in and do our jobs. I invite you to come and teach my class I can use a break and it is just inside of week 5. If you want to challenge me please let me know and I will (no lie) make arrangements at once with my principal. I am in the DCSS system in the South Dekalb area – SPEAK UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AM READY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To @LLL
September 8th, 2010
4:47 pm
No… YOU are wrong and AP is right. I sat in a meeting with Martha Reichrath (and others) from the DOE. She stated several times in this meeting that school districts could buy off the list. Apparently, the impression that the list was the be-all-end-all for book purchasing decisions was never corrected by the DOE. What a shocker!
td
September 8th, 2010
4:49 pm
Angela, Do you teach in a school that is deemed as a low performing? If so then you should be in line supporting Deal because part of his educational plan is to give teachers that teach at these schools 2 for 1 credit for retirement. He is doing this to try to attract the best and brightest in these schools.
catlady
September 8th, 2010
5:06 pm
I want 2 for 1 credit retirement for the 38 years I have taught in Title 1 (70% FRPL) schools! Think of it–152 % of the $74,000 (with furloughs and lowered rate of local supplement) I make a year–Wow! Even I would retire then!
Is Deal willing to hire the teachers to carry out his plan? Because we would have teachers for 1st grade, 1.5 grade, 2nd grade, 2.5 grade, etc. Or maybe he wants us to test monthly? Then it would be 1.0 grade, 1.1 grade, 1.2 grade, l.3 grade…
We could do this pretty simply. HOLD BACK THE KIDS WHO HAVE NOT MASTERED THE MATERIAL. Let the others go on to the next grade.
Angela
September 8th, 2010
5:10 pm
@TD,
Yes, I do teach in a school deemed as low income. And, if his plan is 2 for 1 credit for retirement where is that money going to come from when I do retire in 6 years? We keep speaking that the Dems are spending too much money but, when the Rep start talking spending money it is okay and well respected.
Also, Deal and Roy will say anything to get votes. As I posted earlier politics is just that and will always be, it is for self and no one else. However, thanks for the info I had not heard or read that mainly because I am not a Deal fan. I lost interest in him when he first started with the mud slinging. Now Roy has stood up with that same tactic and I lose interest in anyone who deems it necessary to belittle others to make themselve look and sound good. I think people that do that will do anything to get what they want and usually for all of the wrong reasons and certainly not with the best interest of others in mind. And, what is even worse they do it without remorse.
Stevie
September 8th, 2010
5:53 pm
I heard that in New Zealand, their schools are non-graded for the first few years. I have no idea how teachers teach there, but that’s an interesting idea, isn’t it? We can have classes for the current K-2 standards, 3-5 standards, etc. and once students master the standards, they move up to the next level. They can take as much or little time as they need.
Attentive Parent
September 8th, 2010
6:10 pm
As of April 1, 1995, state textbook funds may be used to purchase any textbook selected by a local school system. The State DOE site says that school systems are not required to purchase materials from the state recommended list.
When I criticize an inquiry approach for novices still trying to get foundational knowledge, maybe it’s because it does seem satirical and silly.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/montessori-school-of-dentistry-lets-students-disco,2854/
Enjoy “Montessori School of Dentistry Lets Students Discover Their Own Root Canal Procedures”.
Stevie-Marie Clay is from NZ so you do have some ideas on their teaching methods
Angela
September 8th, 2010
6:19 pm
Hey All Of You Out There With Education Solutions,
I proposed a CHALLEGE. NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW it is so quiet! Can I get at least a “Maybe?”
Stevie
September 8th, 2010
6:58 pm
It’s clear that this nonsense was written by someone who doesn’t really understand what Maria Montessori advocated. What is unfortunate, though, is that there are some people who are in Montessori schools who don’t understand Montessori’s idea, either.
I don’t know anything about Marie Clay, but I think New Zealand is doing ok academically, aren’t they? Besides, I don’t see how one person’s idea can be used to generalize a nation’s approach to education.
Angela
September 8th, 2010
7:27 pm
Well, I guess since I can’t seem to get a taker to come and do my job this must mean that all of that talk is just HOT AIR just like Deal and Barnes! But, if you all are ever in the area please give a SHOUT OUT I will WELCOME YOU WITH OPEN ARMS AND WILL BE SURE THAT MY STUDENTS EMBRACE YOU TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Attentive Parent
September 8th, 2010
8:00 pm
Guided Reading and Reading Recovery?
Fountas & Pinnell are implemneting her program.
John Hattie is from NZ as well as is John Sweller.
Lots of the same controversies are going on in reading throughout the English speaking world.
Stevie
September 8th, 2010
8:33 pm
Interesting.
In PISA, New Zealand was 3rd internationally in reading (2000) while US was 15th. In 2003, New Zealand was 9th in math while US was 24th, and in 2006, in science, New Zealand was 4th while US was 21st. These are comparisons of the means, but they still look reasonably ok and US might learn something from New Zealand.
Attentive Parent
September 8th, 2010
8:43 pm
Or NZ is listening to Hattie and not Clay and that’s why she’s so determined to export her program.
There’s a famous story of her hiring lobbyists and coming to DC at the time of NCLB’s enactment. She was told that with a few minor changes to her programs so they had at least a minimal emphasis on teaching sounds and letters, her programs might qualify. She said no and hired lobbyists to then assail NCLB.
Have you ever looked at the costs of those programs to “train” a teacher? Or their horrendous track record?
Just another example of how effective instruction threatens the gravy train.
Atlanta mom
September 8th, 2010
8:58 pm
Considering that education eats up 58% of the Georgia budget for 2010-2011, I would like to have a few more details how Mr. Deal believes those funds should be spent.
Why can’t we go back to ability grouping, starting no later than second grade? And I mean within the second grades? I do not think my children would have been well served as 7 year olds in classes with 11 year olds. That makes me nervous. I will say that I don’t understand why it would be so difficult to do if the entire school decided that was the way to go. If you have reading at 9:00 am in every class, well, each student could go to the proper reading class.
And by the time students are in middle school, ability based is the only way to go. Except that we do it backwards. We have small classes for the “gifted” students and larger classes for the non-gifted students. I would rather see a gifted class with 40 students and a remedial class with 20 students.
Vince
September 8th, 2010
9:00 pm
# High School Teacher
No one corrected me because I didn’t need correcting. People asked for sources and I gave them. Did you not bother to look at that?
Again, AYP has nothing to do with funding and your reasoning is not only incorrect. It’s illogical. Now, I suppose Georgia could have refused to follow the rules of Kennedy’s and Bush’s NCLB that instituted AYP…..but to turn your back on all federal funding would be suicide. Can you imagine no Title I dollars going to low income schools? Man, the class sizes in those schools would shoot up like crazy! No free and reduced lunches!? No funds for special education!?
Whew! Is that really what you are advocating.
One’s bark should not extend beyond one’s knowledge, dear.
Vince
September 8th, 2010
9:03 pm
Catlady…… Dekalb and most of the metro systems already have acceleration policies in place. I have “advanced” several students in the last few years. You don’t need “half” grades.
Stevie
September 8th, 2010
9:24 pm
Instead of throwing around names or “programs”, I think it would be nice to really study what New Zealand is doing in their schools. I really don’t care whether they are using “traditional” or “inquiry” or “integrated” etc. They seem to be doing relatively well as a nation, and I’m sure their schools are just as different among themselves as ours are. Why can’t we just examine what they are doing to learn from them?
Vince
September 8th, 2010
9:33 pm
What has happened to Georgia education over the past 8 years or so?
maximum class size 2000 2008
kindergarten 28 20
grades 1 – 3 25 21
grades 4/5 33 25
grades 6 – 8 33 28
grades 9 – 12 35 28
Georgia’s SAT average in 2000 – 973 (verbal and math)
Georgia’s SAT average in 2009 – 981 (verbal and math)
Georgia’s grade for its curriculum as assessed by the Fordham Foundation in 2000 – C-
Georgia’s grade for its curriculum as assessed by the Fordham Foundation in 2009 – B+
Hmmmmm…… Makes you THINK. Doesn’t it?
Hallco teacher
September 8th, 2010
9:43 pm
Maybe Deal’s poll of teachers was in that email I received on my work address along with all the other Hallco teachers. Hmmmm….wonder how he got access to that distribution list?!?! Oh, right, his neighbor hooked him up. But then we all rec’d an email from the super reminding us to keep our political views out of the classroom.
More power to Schofield. Move on outta here so we can ditch Singapore math and all the other crap that’s being passed down from on high. I’d love to be able to use professional judgment for just a few minutes each day. We’re chasing our tails!
Public Teacher
September 8th, 2010
10:23 pm
@Vince -
Don’t know where u get you ‘facts’ but the new SAT does not have the same max score as the old SAT. So, your comparison here doesn’t make sense. The SAT of 2000 cannot be compared to the SAT of 2009 or of 2010.
Also, the maximum class size TODAY in high school is far larger than the 28. There are classes in my school with 40+ students.
Care to explain?
Education today is in far far worse shape in GA than it was when I started teaching 10 years ago. And, it isn’t teacher quality at all. In my opinion and considering the professional teachers that I know and their qualifications, todays teachers are of much higher quality than those of 10 years ago. What has gotten worse is less funding getting INSIDE the clasroom. The funding goes to layers of administrators, goes to building new facilities (some are central offices for said administrators), goes to creating more paperwork for teachers to do, and everywhere else except into the classroom to benefit the student. THAT is the major change that I have seen.
td
September 8th, 2010
10:35 pm
Vince, Do you know how much money we spent in 2000 compared to 2008? Is the increase amount of money worth a 8 point increase in our SAT scores?
Bailey
September 8th, 2010
10:42 pm
HALLCO TEACHER…Maybe Deal’s staff got the list just like every others teacher’s email in the state……IT’S ON MOST SCHOOL SYSTEM’S WEBSITE. We got it in our county as well. DO you teach to draw only one conclusion to every issue that suits your agenda?
Buck Haralson
September 9th, 2010
12:53 am
Yeah, he is the Dekalb county teacher who is always blogging against MACE and Dr. Trotter; however, Mace keeps growing and getting bigger. I hear Dr Trotter got tired of his foolishness and kicked him to the curb.
Morcease B.
September 9th, 2010
1:00 am
He is the “hit and run” specialist. He hides behind his anonymous blogs. I hear that he took two DeKalb administrators to court for battery and was essentially laughed out of the courtroom both times. He also sued the school system for racial discrimination but lost that case too. When does he have time to teach???
Attentive Parent
September 9th, 2010
4:52 am
Stevie-I take the issue of effective instruction very seriously and have corresponded in the past with some professors in NZ.
What specifically would you like me to get additional info on?
Vince
September 9th, 2010
7:10 am
@ Public Teacher
Sure, I’ll explain.
As far as the SAT scores go that I gave you….. I used the verbal and math parts for both years….2000 and 2009….so the scores could be compared fairly. I did not include the writing scores for 2009 as there would be nothing to compare them to in 2000. Statistics are my thing.
As far as class size goes, I used 2008 because that was the year the economy collapsed. Using that year gives the reader the ability to sort out what was necessary as far as budget cuts versus what is alleged by some to be a Perdue conspiracy to make classes bigger for no apparent reason.
Finally, Public Teacher, I too am a Public Educator and I think we may be in the same system. I am very aware of cuts, changes and increased workload. I also am an Independent, politically speaking. I just don’t like to see people throw out unfounded lies and opinions…..so I provide truth in the hopes people can make more responsible decisions.
Vince
September 9th, 2010
7:26 am
@td
Wow! You gave me a tough one! I did finally find an answer though. In 2001 Georgia spent 16.1 billion on education. In 2009 the amount was 28.2 billion.
Hmmm…. Is that increased spending worth an 8 point rise in the SAT scores? Well, we do have a population of 1.5 million more people than we did in 2001 so some of that increased spending would be a result of that. Some would be a result of inflation. An 8 point increase in the SAT is pretty substantial…especially when you see how close we are getting to the average score of 1000.
Much of the spending has gone toward meeting ADA requirements.
Still, I don’t know if I have a good answer to your question. It’s a good question though.
Garrett
September 9th, 2010
11:06 am
Vince thanks for providing the stats. Folks are so used to claims that the sky is falling, that we lose sight of improvements. Education is usually the largest category of expenditures for state and local governments. And yet we hear people say a governor doesn’t need to be an expert on education? Astonishing.
However, SAT’s are a bit funny. They aren’t all that predictive of success in college. The most significant factor in determining performance on the SAT is parent income. More and poorer students are taking the SAT than a decade ago. So when you factor in an expectation that average scores should be declining, then an 8 point jump over a decade is probably a very significant gain. -Albeit, in a rather insignificant test.
A better metric, would be to track how many students are working, continuing education, or none-of-the-above 5 years after leaving secondary education. Another would be to measure the percentage of those students entering college with either advanced placement or needing remediation.
In Georgia, we’ve got criterion referenced tests which nearly every teacher will tell you are meaningless. Passing the 6th grade Math CRCT doesn’t say much. Statistically, students who just pass the 6th grade math CRCT have a very high probability of failing the 7th grade CRCT.
How do you make lemonade out of test result lemons? You analyze gaps in performance between demographic groups. Are they growing wider or shrinking? Is the change in a particular gap related to a drop in the performance of one group, or gains made by another? What is the distribution of performance for a particular demographic group? How many students in that group perform in the top or bottom quartile? How have the percentages of students in the top and bottom quartiles changed over time? This is all very well for the macro perspective in identifying potential problem areas, but does very little to improve instruction in the classroom.
Why test at all, if the tests don’t also inform instruction? There are such things as tests which are criterion referenced, nationally normed, and measure individual growth. The NWEA’s Measures of Academic Progress (MAP) is one. But no single test or point in time is an adequate or accurate measure of a child. And tests which subtract from instruction time without providing any useful insight to teachers aren’t just a waste of time and money, but are an opportunity cost against the time which could have been used productively.
In the end, if test data is gathered, but never analyzed, and provided to teachers in a manner which they can digest and use… Then you might do just as well not to test at all.
Meanwhile, we’re accepting federal “Race to the Top” funds. -Which will be used to create new tests allowing us to tie teacher performance to pay… on the basis of tests which quantify things over which teachers have very little or meaningful influence. In a recent WSJ article, it mentioned a study where 3/5ths of teachers ranked in the top 20% one year fail to stay in the top quintile in the next (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704476104575440100517520516.html)
Next we wave our hands around and talk about funding. Per pupil state funding on education in the Southern states falls below the national average. And even there, Georgia is in the bottom half (http://www.sefatl.org/pdf/k12_resources_per_pupil_brief.pdf). But it seems to escape everyone’s attention that education funding has also been growing faster than inflation for… oh… pretty much forever (http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=66). It is probably worth qualifying that as spending continues to grow, spending mandates seem to outpace funding.
I’ve watched Democrats and Republicans spin, politic, and thrash each other on education issues, switch positions 180 degrees, and then throw the exact same rhetoric back and forth again.
The public schools systems are too big to fail, and with few exceptions too conservative to innovate. The federal, state, and local funding formulas combine to make funding school choice and voucher systems inequitable. How can charter schools succeed when they receive 40 cents on the dollar that the public school system receives? And how can public schools compete against charters that can use effectively selective admissions policies to serve children that need fewer services and cost less per pupil to educate?
It is a big hairy mess. And the outlook is for more of the same with intermittent showers of innovation and improvement. I am so thankful to the parents, teachers, and administrators who are dedicated, caring, and motivated to make a difference in our childrens’ lives. We all want a brighter future. But instead of building on common goals and rational discourse, we so easily fall victim to divisive arguments over things of very little consequence.