HOPE is diminishing. Parents told that scholarship money for books and fees likely to disappear due to shortfall
Books and fees are likely to be cut from the HOPE Scholarship as lottery proceeds fall short of the increased costs of the popular program.
I am glad to see some frank comments about the pressures on the HOPE Scholarship from a lawmaker. I went to the recent hearing on HOPE that state Rep. Len Walker, R-Loganville, convened and where he warned that HOPE was in trouble. He is bringing the same cautionary tale to the public.
At the hearing, Walker and other lawmakers predicted hard choices this year on HOPE, which is funded by the lottery. The lottery proceeds cannot keep up with the demands from HOPE Scholarships awarded to college students, HOPE grants given to technical school students and pre-k offered to the state’s 4-year-olds.
LOGANVILLE — The HOPE Scholarship might not be able to provide any money for textbooks or fees for next year’s college freshmen, state Rep. Len Walker, R-Loganville, told the Grayson High School PTSA on Thursday evening.
Georgia lottery revenues, which fund the HOPE Scholarship and the Georgia Pre-K programs, have been steadily climbing, but they aren’t growing fast enough, Walker said.
“The Georgia lottery is one of the best run lotteries in all the world. In my opinion, the lottery commission has done a commendable job,” Walker said. “The revenues have inched up … but the lottery revenues are not growing at a pace to keep up with the expenditures.”
Last year, the lottery revenues were about $881 million. The expenditures, however, totaled more than $1 billion. The state had to use a chunk of the lottery’s unrestricted reserves to make up the difference, Walker said.
Projections show the lottery revenues will stay relatively stagnant, while lottery expenditures will climb to more than $1.2 billion by fiscal year 2012, which begins in less than a year. That will deplete the unrestricted reserve, and the lottery’s other two reserves will drop to about $370 million — less than half of where they were at the beginning of this fiscal year.
Walker, the chairman of the House higher education committee, said he finds this alarming, but he assured parents the HOPE Scholarship isn’t going anywhere.
“It’s not going away,” Walker said, “… but some adjustments are going to have to be made. … This is an issue that has to be answered right now.”
Legislators will be examining a number of options when the General Assembly convenes in January, Walker said. Trigger mechanisms for benefit reductions in case of declining fund availability may have to be accelerated.
Currently, the HOPE Scholarship provides for the cost of tuition at a public college or university, pays for mandatory fees (capped at the January 2004 level) and gives students $150 per semester for books. It’s possible the book award and fee payments may be eliminated.
The program may also be amended so that people who have a bachelor’s degree cannot receive the HOPE Grant if they enroll in a technical college.
Loganville resident Leigh Ann Brandenburg, whose son is a senior at Grayson High, said the information is upsetting.
“He’s worked hard for (the past) three years, and I’d just hate for him to be penalized,” she said. “I think we can swing the room and board if his classes are paid for, but the economy has affected everyone. I don’t want him penalized for doing the right thing.”
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66 comments Add your comment
TechMom
August 30th, 2010
8:53 am
HOPE Scholarship and Grant need to be changed to a forgivable loan program. How many students lose it after the first year because they didn’t really deserve it in the first place? If you really want it and need it, you’ll be willing to work hard for your grades so you don’t have to pay it back.
V for Vendetta
August 30th, 2010
8:55 am
I’m tired of hearing about this. Raise the GPA requirements to 3.5 and be done with it. 3.0 is a joke.
It’s not hard to figure out. You don’t have the right to go to college for free, but, apparently, many people disagree. Be happy that a system exists at all. But I fear for this nation’s future when there are pictures like the one on the homepage of ajc.com. A man is holding a sign that says “Housing is a human right.”
NO IT IS NOT.
You have the right to live and to do whatever it take to work towards the goal of owning a home, BUT YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO A HOME. Like most other things in this world, it must be earned. That same attitude it what is wrong with the HOPE scholarship and why it is slowly drying up.
Dave56
August 30th, 2010
8:55 am
Gee, it’s great having your kids just entering college and, viola, sorry, the best part about the Georgia educational system is being cut left and right. Maybe the legislators can cut some of the pork that has been heaped on over the last 5 or so years. Hope the Hope is still there when the second one comes along in 2015.
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2010
9:07 am
bound to happen. amazed it hadn’t hapened sooner.
grade inflation, systems promoting the percent of kids “qualifing”
for HOPE, the skyrocketing costs of higher education…
like any other elected body, the Ga legislature saw this coming for years yet choose to kick it down the road to somebody else.
how much money gets spent on athletics again?
on ADA students who will almost certainly never be able to apply the
education they demanded?
on building places to the egos of Presidents like the GPC Atlanta
Center or the moble health van?
clearly we have money – we just don’t care to be responsible with it
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2010
9:09 am
how about this for motivation: anyone recieving HOPE who loses it due to bad grades in the first semester being required to pay it back.
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2010
9:14 am
I’ve always favored HOPE recipients be required to complete their first year of education at a two year or tech school. these guys are much more cost effective – dollar goes farther and have less distractions (ie: greek life, football teams, dorms in most cases) giving kids a better chance of actually making use of their opportunity
Union
August 30th, 2010
9:17 am
my parents saved for both my college education and my brothers college education. they didnt even have to use mine as i went into the military and used the gi bill as well as worked my way through to finish and have an off campus apartment.
the problem with “free” programs is that when you have to make adjustments, something that we never had before, is now someones right to something.. go figure..
catlady
August 30th, 2010
9:49 am
Maybe we should give the lottery bigwigs even larger bonuses!
oldtimer
August 30th, 2010
9:52 am
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/27/AR2010082703805.html
This is a very interesting link to an editorial. Very very intersting….off topic for this but gives some interesting facts.
God Bless the Teacher!
August 30th, 2010
10:11 am
TechMom – AMEN! Until the policy makers (at whatever level) listen to suggestions like this, no positive change will ever occur with HOPE. Instead of just being forgiveable, convert HOPE money received into a low interest student loan. That way HOPE will make some money to built reserves.
HS Teacher, Too
August 30th, 2010
10:30 am
@TechMom and God Bless the Teacher!
Oh please. You are asking the impossible. And that is for politicans in GA in charge (republicans) to do the reasonable and logical thing with respect to education.
HOPE cannot be everything to everyone. The scope of it needs to narrow in addition to it being a ‘forgiveable loan.’
More Republican BS
August 30th, 2010
10:31 am
If the Legislature had the balls to put a stop to such huges bonuses to the Lottery Commission at the end of the year, it would be a brighter picture. The salary they make is far and above what most people make each year and it is pure BS that they will leave if their bonuses are taken away because there is no place else they could go and make the money they make salary wise and they know they are darn lucky to even have a job. When are people going to wake up and see that the Republican party cares about no one but the affluent – two kinds of Republicans – millionaires and suckers. No the Democratic party isn’t perfect but at least they see beyond the rich and affluent. And please do me a favor about how hard you work is because you are affluent – you happened to be lucky to be in the right place at the right time. I worked my butt off, giving far more than 8 hours a day to my job, dedicated, loyal, etc. and by the way only got paid for 8 hours a day even if I worked 10.
WE lost our way
August 30th, 2010
10:33 am
I have said this several times before on this topic.The first 30 hours of college is the area where Hope loses over 250 million each year.As of 2008 over 54% lost Hope in the first 30 semester hours.Make Hope a reimbursement fund for the these hours.If the student does not have a 3.0 at the end of 30 hours,they will not get the funds.If they have a 3.0 they will continue receiving as it is currently established.I know people will state that they can not come up with the estimated 7000.00 to start the freshman year with,but if you know the rules in advance;you can save years before they are a senior in high school.Also, they will get this money back if their student has a 3.0 at the end of 30 hours.
David S
August 30th, 2010
10:58 am
The entitlements for everyone, including middle class parents, are all going away. The government is bankrupt, both financially and morally.
A free and properous america can rise from the ashes of its future demise. The only question will be whether anyone learns from the upcoming collapse or continues to believe that government can somehow allow everyone to live at the expense of everyone else.
What's best for kids?
August 30th, 2010
11:00 am
Reinbursement is the best answer.
Warrior Woman
August 30th, 2010
11:13 am
@ V and bootney – You could overcome the grade inflation that’s making more kids HOPE-eligible when graduating from high school by requiring a 3.0 and a minimum test score on ACT or SAT. That would take some of the pressure off HOPE. I would also eliminate remedial classes from HOPE eligibility, which would take more pressure off HOPE and keep out kids that aren’t ready for college. If you combine those ideas with TechMom’s forgivable loan idea, HOPE is saved.
Of course, controlling expenses at Georgia Lottery and the state colleges and universities would also go a long way towards saving HOPE.
Shar
August 30th, 2010
11:17 am
As the parent of a child who has just received a HOPE scholarship, I agree with making it a reimbursement. Asking students to get a short-term loan that can be paid off with a semester-based reimbursement system will build that student’s credit score while providing a very real kick in the pants for those tempted to slack off. Perhaps that change should only be instituted in the four year schools as they are more expensive, have more distractions and are more competitive. Students choosing to attend two year schools at lower cost to the HOPE program could be given more latitude, thus making those schools more attractive.
Bottom line, HOPE cannot provide a semester or year of fun and games before a student loses qualification and has to leave. Losing reimbursement after one semester would mean that the student would be on the hook for the $4500 tuition loan and assumably would either take their work more seriously or go home, eligibility still intact, to attend a more realistic option. Letting HOPE “scholars” play for a year only to find they have no more options at all does not give Georgia the full benefit of the funds, and is particularly wasteful when the majority of entering freshmen at Tech and UGA now lose eligibility after the first year.
Ernest
August 30th, 2010
11:21 am
WE lost our way, while I understand your rationale, that gets away from the original objective of HOPE, an income based award to assist deserving, qualified students. When it became merit based along with available for 4 years, obviously more students and families took advantage of HOPE. This has resulted in the current situation where expenditures are exceeding the revenues generated.
I could go for the idea mentioned by Warrior Woman OR a sliding scale award based on family income. I would also increase the GPA minimum to 3.25 for the current 8th graders to be eligible for HOPE.
LaLaLa
August 30th, 2010
11:23 am
Wow, meanwhile we teach foreign language in elementary school – as long as you only speak Spanish, you get to learn English, which is a foreign language. In fact, UGA “researchers” just received more than $2 million to help immigrants learn English. Your kid, born a Native English speaker, will not get foreign language ed until high school, if then. Why doesn’t anyone give a rat’s patootey about kids who are HERE? End the nation-building in Afghanistan and the free healthcare, education, and language training to Mexican nationals who are here and spend it where it came from!
brian
August 30th, 2010
11:30 am
Why do we have to cut HOPE for college kids. What about the pre-k, its nothing more than glorified day care. How much is that costing the state each year
Ray
August 30th, 2010
11:34 am
Real leadership would solve this problem. Do we pay these politicans to state the obvious?
Apparently.
William Casey
August 30th, 2010
11:42 am
Making HOPE a REIMBURSEMENT program is a far better idea than converting it to a loan program. Each student pays his/her own way the first semester. If student make grades, student gets HOPE check. If student parties or is unprepared for college work, student (or parents) pay for it. Much easier than trying to collect on loans. And, don’t tell me that this would exclude “the poor.” It wouldn’t hurt a student (poor or otherwise) to work a year after high school to pay for that first semester in college. My son, who has HOPE, sure appreciates the value of a dollar more after a summer of hard physical labor. This would also go a long way toward exposing the rampaging grade inflation in high school. A 3.0 HS GPA in no way guarantees that a student is ready for real college level work.
WE lost our way
August 30th, 2010
11:58 am
@Ernest- You are right that it was created on income based and qualified by Zell Miller. However over the years the income levels were raised.Also, the SYSTEM learned how to play the game in grade inflation for students. In some school systems students are given a 3.0 in high school so they will qualify for Hope.They(adminitrators/teachers)see this as the only way the student can get a college education.Example- a 3.0 grade in Fayette or Cobb will be different than a 3.0 in APS or some rural areas of this state. That is why alot of students lose Hope the first year. The other majority reason is freshmen want to party when they go away from home.Let the good times role and not study.@ brian,I agree with you on pre-k. It is a state funded day care. If you abolished Pre-k you also do away with a state agency that employees over 100 employees.Saves money on both state funds and lottery funds.
catlady
August 30th, 2010
12:02 pm
Has anyone seen hard data about how many of those who lose HOPe actually LEAVE school? I know quite a few kids who have lost it (many of them lower class), and not a one of them left school. They or their parents took out loans, they worked, etc. I wonder how widespread that is? I am willing to bet very few actually quit school. They find other ways. And what is the percent of HOPE “scholars” who actually finish college? What GPA or SAT is a predictor of finishing? Unfortunately so little information is available to the public about the efficacy of the HOPE scholarship–the data is being sat on. Let some reputable researchers have a crack at it!
Some folks say it doesn’t matter–it’s just lottery money. But tuition (HOPE) pays only part of the expense of putting on classes. The rest of it is borne by the taxpayers. Thousands of dollars per student!
I agree with tightening the requirements (adding a minimum SAT/ACT–how about 1000 on the 1600 scale (pretty low) or an ACT of 24 of 36) to weed out the pseudo-scholars? Give them the HOPE straight up. The kids who have the gpa but not the SAT/ACT–make theirs a loan until the end of the first 2 full-time semesters, when the loan is forgiven if they have the 3.0. And so something about the kids who “ride the HOPE” and end up with–oops–24 hours at the end of 2 semesters! Remember, until you have those 30 hours your grades are not examined for continuation of HOPE.
catlady
August 30th, 2010
12:04 pm
filtered at noon
Lynx
August 30th, 2010
12:08 pm
Making students pay back the HOPE scholarship will be an incentive for SOME students to work harder. This system will also encourage the following: 1) more grade grubbing by students and grade inflation by weaker faculty and departments, 2) students underenrolling in course hours (12 instead of 18, for example, then drop one) to insure they pass (costs the university money and prolongs time to graduation), 3) rise in declaration of majors that are not as rigorous or difficulty, which skews against science and math majors, of which GA needs more not fewer, 4) mushrooming concurrent enrollment at 4-year University System schools and 2-year, online, and for profit colleges to get easier hours, resulting in quality control issues for core courses that need rigorous pre-requisites and loss of revenue for 4-year schools. Being aware of the pitfalls should enable better program design.
That said, I support students paying for education, then receiving a reimbursement from HOPE if they meet standards in non-remedial classes, either once a year or once a semester. Remedial (academic enhancement, ESOL, and UNIV) courses should be the responsibility of the student and family, not the HOPE program. I don’t like the idea of giving students the money first, then trying to collect it back upon failure to meet the standard – that add lots more bureaucracy, record keeping, and frankly, had low odds of succeeding if you look at student loan default rates as an example – and those are banks and government agencies going after defaulters, not universities, who are not in the loan business.
Jefferson Jackson
August 30th, 2010
12:10 pm
If you tightrn high school grading standards you won’t have so many sham 3.0 GPAs. That is the true scandal. There are students graduating from Georgia high schools with a 3.0 who have to take remedial courses in college. Let’s track that disguting trend.
V for Vendetta
August 30th, 2010
12:24 pm
More Republican BS,
The dems want to control everything. The repubs want a theocracy. It seems to me that BOTH parties are philosophically bankrupt.
David S,
I hope so, but I fear that we are in trouble when a Glenn Beck rally draws thousands of people. Hitler started in the same way. Time will tell if our country, the one the Founding Fathers envisioned, can be saved.
EnoughAlready
August 30th, 2010
12:43 pm
An income limit is the best way to solve this problem. HOPE was originally created to help students who couldn’t necessarily afford college be able to attend.
Atlanta mom
August 30th, 2010
12:55 pm
As someone on this blog site recently recommended, make students (parents) pay for the first semester of college. If the student remains HOPE eligible, tuition is covered by HOPE, but the first semester “deposit” stays with the school. At the end of 4 years, assuming the student is still HOPE eligible, the deposit is returned to the student. He/She will then have the funds to go out and find their own place to live. A win-win for everyone.
So everyone knows, the “fees” are not insubstantial. The UGA bill this year shows $3,535 for tuition and $833 for fees—for one semester.
V for Vendetta
August 30th, 2010
1:15 pm
Enough Already,
Enough already! If you want live in communism, there are plenty of places in Europe that are practically communist. The HOPE was set up based on achievement. Even though I could agree that all schools are not created equal, largely due to socioeconomic status, I think using income as an arbiter of awards is wrong. Many of the schools in low socioeconomic areas would be far more likely to inflate grades than a school like Lassiter, Northview, or Brookwood.
catlady
August 30th, 2010
1:36 pm
My noon comment is still filtered.
EnoughAlready
August 30th, 2010
2:01 pm
V for Vendetta
August 30th, 2010
1:15 pm
You are very delusional “V for Vendetta”. The original HOPE criteria contained an income limit. I’m sure you know that, living outside of that communist world you bring up. Now, you have moved into pure fantasy.
bloodbike
August 30th, 2010
2:03 pm
Drop the state sponsored day care. It is killing the program. Also add a SAT/ACT score requiremnt. also drop the books and fees part of the program. This would keep the system moving forward.
Too many A's
August 30th, 2010
2:38 pm
bloodbike – Agree but would add dropping remedial classes.
Ricardo Cabeza
August 30th, 2010
2:44 pm
HOPE sher hepp me 2 git a gud ejucashun hear in Jawjuh! The ferst summester of my freshmun yeer wuz free! Alls I had to pay fer wuz da beer! Then I lossed the HOPE and moov bak home wif mommanem. Ain’t life grate??
oldtimer
August 30th, 2010
2:52 pm
TN does have an ACT as well as grade requirements for HOPE. Not all middle class parents can afford a lot of college money. I am a teacher, my husband a police officer. We saved, but not near enough. Our girls worked.
Colleges have really not doen enough to contain their costs. Instructors only actually teach 15 hours a week. The rest is “ofice hours”. Maybe letting full time instructors actually teach 20-30 hours a week would help with costs.
oldtimer
August 30th, 2010
2:53 pm
Also Pre K could be dropped.
AimHightoReceive
August 30th, 2010
3:02 pm
100% for 3.75 GPA and above with $150 books
80% 3.5 to 3.74999 with $100 for books
60% 3.25 to 3.499999 with $75 for books
50% 3.00 to 3.24999 and passing SAT/ACT Scores with $75 for books
33% 2.75 to 3.00 and High level SAT/ACT Score (SAT over 800?) with $75 bk
Less than 2.75 0%
Convert to Low interest loan if you fail in first year or leave to out-of-state school
0 for remedial/non-credit classes.
Ernest
August 30th, 2010
3:09 pm
I disagree with the suggestions regarding eliminating PreK. I can admit it has the impression of being a glorified daycare however we must acknowledge there are many children coming into the program from ‘unstructured’ environments. Some child need to develop skills many of us take for granted such as sitting still, following instructions, interacting with others, etc.
I’d like to see more rigor in the PreK curriculum however would defer to our teachers for guidance as to what could and shouldn’t be done. There should be base skills accomplished at the end of the year however there should not be a reasonable cap on skills taught. I know I was frustrated when the PreK teacher told me they could not teach certain things because of the established curriculum, despite the obvious mastery by the children and desire to do more.
I say this because I believe early intervention is part of the key to really making a difference with education in our state. It is important to do what we can to close the achievement gap however that does not mean we keep the bar where it currently resides. We need to keep raising the bar while closing the gap. That is the only way we can help improve the outcomes for more of our children.
Lynx
August 30th, 2010
3:48 pm
While original HOPE program included an income scale, this ignores the sacrifices that middle class parents have made during all the years leading up to college – time spent helping with homework, coaching teams, making sure kids had enough rest and food, attending school conferences, volunteering with PTA. Why should families who worked so hard to get their children college-ready not receive the same benefits as those who were less fortunate or less motivated? Middle class kids are less likely to lose the scholarship than lower income kids, so if you want to base the funding on a risk-return assessment, you give the money first to the middle income kids, and only to the lower income kids if there is any left over.
Ole Guy
August 30th, 2010
4:35 pm
Fear not, little ones! There’s always V.A. educational assistance. No…WAIT ONE! That means you would have to commit yourselves to service for your Country, something which previous generations viewed as a normal part of growing up. How foolish of the Ole Guy to even contemplate such an infringement upon a generation which will forever go on blaming their problems on forces far beyond their control.
Not a single gen has had the luxury of escaping some sort of social challenge. Each and every gen has simply dove in and, in the end, persevered, if not triumped. Now, all of a sudden, the wee wittle ones have it tough…BOO FRIQIN HOO!
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2010
4:56 pm
I like the idea of tying HOPE to ACT, SAT, or some other similiar kind of achievement.
wouldn’t kill all of grade inflation, but would stop a bunch of it.
bootney farnsworth
August 30th, 2010
5:00 pm
@ catlady,
that’s why I like the idea of having to repay HOPE monies lost in the first year or semester. the start up costs of college are so high it can cripple the ability of a lot of talented folks to begin.
but we have to actually collect it, not wring our hands and excuse the debts.
another comment
August 30th, 2010
5:26 pm
The low income students already qualify for Pell Grants and other Financial aid that other grants that middle class and above student don’t. If anything, the program should be made so that there is no double dipping if you are eligible for Pell Grants and other income base aid. There are many low income students who are getting checks back to them from the financial aid offices.
Another big problem are the parts of the University System that do not even require an SAT or ACT score to gain entry. That is ridiculous. How can we have 4 year universities in the State system that do not have that thresehold.
Also, we have students gaming the grading system, in High School. Some students just take the easy courses to get a higher GPA for the HOPE scholarship, since they don’t use the weighted average that the kids who take the tougher classes in Honors, AP and IB classes take. It is so easy to Have all A’s in regular classes in a Georgia class room. But it is a completely different thing earning an A in a IB or AP, class yet for the Hope 3.0 average, the good students don’t get to use their weighted averages. These are the kids who can score the 1300+/1600 on the SAT. Then everyone wonders why they have kids who have a 3.0 who can’t are taking remedial courses in college. They probably wouldn’t have scored 800 out of 1600 on the SAT, you get about 600 for writing your name and they took all the easy classes, which means they showed up and turned in the assignments.
Lee
August 30th, 2010
6:46 pm
Make HOPE a Reimbursement Program where the student pays his tuition up front and then gets reimbursed when he passes the course. You could probably enact a sliding scale, where the student gets reimbursed 100% for an A, 90% for a B, and 80% for a C — which is exactly the way my company’s Educational Reimbursement program works.
A reimbursement program would do two things:
1. It would significantly reduce grade inflation pressure at the high school level.
2. It would eliminate the “go to college for a year, lose HOPE, and drop out” student.
catlady
August 30th, 2010
7:13 pm
Problem with “converting it to a loan” besides actually collecting–you have to get a person to sign a prom note for a loan. Why would anyone be willing to sign a “maybe” prom note? And we need to watch how “fancy” we get it–this adds more layers of employees to evaluate, track, etc. We don’t want more money siphoned off for that! We already waste too much money on supervisors.
Simplest thing would be to up the requirements, tie them to an SAT, or require the grades on certain courses, such as requiring an AP course and the test with a 3 or higher. We DO have too many marginal students–never mind “scholars”–going to school through HOPE and the good money of taxpayers.
I really think the AP thing would be a better predictor of college success.
Gina
August 30th, 2010
7:29 pm
Traditionally, the poor kids can get government aid and the rich kids don’t need it. It’s the middle class that gets squeezed. This is particularly unfair to parents who have actually tried to save only to have the savings count against them on the FAFSA as compared to the families who did no saving at all! I am all for merit-based scholarships for the middle class and the preservation of the HOPE. Many people are complaining about the B students not deserving the HOPE for college, but let’s not forget that the HOPE grant for people who go to community college has no GPA requirement at all.
Burroughston Broch
August 30th, 2010
8:46 pm
Here’s a simpler and ethical method:
1. Raise the minimum high school GPA to 3.5.
2. Give additional credit for high school honors, AP and IB classes.
3. Once in college, you lose the scholarship if your college GPA drops below 3.0 or if you must take any remedial classes. Once you satisfactorily complete the remedial classes and get your GPA above 3.0, you can return to the scholarship.
If it’s going to be a scholarship, give it to scholars. If not, find something productive to do with the Lottery money (other than pay bonuses to Lottery staff and subsidize non-scholars).
Really amazed
August 30th, 2010
9:54 pm
UGA has a min requirement… 3.8 and min SAT 580 math 560 reading 560 writitng. Georgia Tech 3.8 and min SAT 650 math 580 reading 580 writing look up collegeboard.com to find min gpa and sat scores to colleges. You won’t be going to one of the better universities with anything lower than 3.8 unweighted and min 1800 out of 2400. You can get into KSU, GA STATE, GA Southern, etc with maybe your 3.0 but you still have to have min. SAT score at about 1500 to qualify for HOPE. I am sure this will all change by the time my son is a Senior though!!!
catlady
August 31st, 2010
8:07 am
Really amazed: aren’t those average scores/gpa’s? Are they REALLY required of ALL admittees?
Really amazed
August 31st, 2010
8:42 am
@catlady: I wish they were average SAT scores for both universities, however many of my friends that had children graduate this past year needed these min. scores to qualify to get in. Also, you can look on Collegeboard.com and see under SAT scores what the mid range would be, this would be the very beginning of mid. If you don’t have mid you aren’t going, A lot of my friend’s children did or didn’t get in and they told me what their children’s scores were that did and didn’t get in. These seem to be the magic numbers. Here is the kicker though… as for ALL admittes… For Georgia Tech if you were female from the high school graduating class trying to get in, you were much more favorable because of GA TECH trying to increase female pop. If you were a diversified female double bonues points!!! Diversified male and so on. Now granted some of these students will have high GPA and SAT scores, however some of them will still be admitted before a Caucasian male. This is the trend now so get us to it. Your truly high gpa not grade inflated male cauc. child will be put last. With HOPE possibly going to only income groups of less than $66,000 a year this will be even worse. Not so for the lower income, minorities. That will add even extra points to ones’ admit. This is the problem the truly gifted won’t be going unless they get a presidental scholarship or merit and even then I am sure they will somehow group that one too!!!
maloney, m
August 31st, 2010
9:32 am
There are many scholarships available to low-income and minority students. As for merit scholarships, these are truly competitive even for the smartest students. The original mission of Hope was not only to help those in need, it was also to “keep the academically superior student in state”. Many of our best students leave Georgia to attend North Carolina schools. Bottom line if you are a middle-class, non-minority student, you will have a tough time finding a scholarship if Hope implements a salary cap. Raise the GPA to 3.5, eliminate the book stipend. And let Hope be available to all academically superior students regardless of income or color. Also write the representatives that are going to be making these decisions.
bootney farnsworth
August 31st, 2010
10:43 am
remedial classes should not be taught at four year schools.
if you need remedial classes, that’s part of what two year
schools are for.
bootney farnsworth
August 31st, 2010
10:52 am
@ really
you really don’t want to know what’s actually going on in Ga higher ed were non white male recruitment is concerned. the USG will bend itself into knots to show how “diverse” they are, at the expense of what little common sense the system presidents have.
@ GPC for example, there is DECA, Leadership Academy, Black Male Initative, Gateway to College, the list is seemingly endless.
but if you’re a majority male student….
good luck.
Random Thought
August 31st, 2010
11:33 am
The minimum GPA required for HOPE should be raised to 3.2/4.0. HOPE should not be a low interest loan program or anything else of the sort, it should remain a SCHOLARSHIP program since it is called the HOPE SCHOLARSHIP / HOPE GRANT program. Require review after every semester. If you have an accumulative 3.0 you stay in the program, if not you are dropped until the next review at 30, 60, and 90 credits hours. Drop the book stipend because the average college student utilizes the stipend to help pay for the parts of tuition that is no longer covered, I know I did. Place an income cap at $125,001. If you have not saved for your child’s college expenses and you are making more than $150K (if you still have that job), you are just as irresponsible as the parents with lower incomes who take no part in their child’s education.
The SAT should not be tied to the HOPE program since I know of students who graduated from college with a 3.0+ GPA utilizing the HOPE scholarship continuously for all years who did not have a 1000/1600 or 1800/2400 SAT score. A SAT scores is not good an indicator of student abilities, it is just a good indicator to see if you can test well. If you are going to utilize tests for the HOPE program look at the individual’s entire high school testing history GHSGT, ECOT, ACT/SAT and any other exams to determine a student’s possibility of success in college.
For most students today even with working and taking out loans for college, if it wasn’t for HOPE they still would not be able to attend college. In the six years I was in college, the cost of tuition DOUBLED with new tuition increases awaiting incoming freshman.
@ another comment
The Pell Grant, SMART Grant, and ACT Grant are all federal grants/scholarships not state like HOPE. With the exception of the Pell Grant, the other two requires that the student maintain a 3.0/4.0 in their required classes for graduation. Pell requires the student maintain “Good Standing” academically since you can and will lose financial aid once you are on “Probation” and “Poor Standing” meaning that you will loose the grant. Students should not be ineligible for HOPE just because they have maintained their 3.0+ GPAs to qualify for other grants and scholarships and their parents have a low income.
Really amazed
August 31st, 2010
12:23 pm
@bootney, I can only imagine what, how and when our lovely gov’t and university systems are doing to make things look/appear to us outsiders! I could tell you stories about the airline industry as well. Another topic!!!! It is truly AMAZING what the public will believe!!!! We as the people of this great country need to caught a clue and WAKE UP!! I truly believe that a lot of parents try to act like they believe GA education is doing just fine. I believe that is how they are able to justify what they are not doing for the future of their own children. I hear it all the time from parents of public ed that we love so and so’s school, then ask the child… they will tell you they hate it and hate going to school. Very sad! Too much grade inflation has lead colleges to look more at SAT/
W. Thomas Kelley,Jr.
August 31st, 2010
12:41 pm
Living in upstate NY I don’t know much about the GA lottery. Personally, I think that all the various lotteries (every state) should be subjected to some kind of audit and the results should be published. Do YOU have any idea where the money actually goes?
Really amazed
August 31st, 2010
1:27 pm
@W.Thomas, the money is SUPPOSE to go a scholarship fund called HOPE for college bond students’ that have maintained a 3.0 avg. Most of those students have lost it the first year of college so makes you wonder where it goes after that!!!!!!!!!! We will NEVER truly know where it goes!!! The more mone GA education receives the worse the education has always gotten in GA. More money is not the answer for GA. The people of GA need to wake up. So many of them believe they should receive everything via the gov’t for free!!! Entitlement! Then again this is what the gov’t has done to it self!!
Pluto
August 31st, 2010
1:47 pm
The HOPE scholarship has become the middle and upper middle class entitlement and the source of many serious points of contention between parents and teachers. Parents know the deal and harass core curriculum teachers when their little Einsteins lose their B in a class. I teach physics and chemistry and I am expected to pass ‘em all but uphold a high standard. Huh??? I attribute the overall grade inflation to HOPE it was here before No Child Left in A Ditch.
Cissy
August 31st, 2010
2:23 pm
I agree with raising the high school GPA requirement and I have no problem making the kids pay for their books. Most people work harder if their own money is on the line.
I disagree with eliminating the pre-K, for reasons others have stated above: to teach eligible children skills that will help them be ready for a kindergarten classroom; and to offer the kids from homes where the parents are less educated some of the advantages they miss while very young: Did you know that children from homes where parents have at least one college degree between them hear, as babies and young children, a whole lot more different words used in the home than kids from homes with parents who don’t have degrees? And… studies cited in the New York Times Magazine, among other places, have shown repeatedly that the number of words kids hear as young children is an excellent predictor of how well they will learn to read later on. In fact, some researchers say it is the best predictor. If children from single-parent, watch-TV-a-lot homes can get more enrichment, earlier exposure to reading, etc., from a state-funded pre-K program, and thereby become better educated and perhaps better able to think and form their own opinions, then I’m for spending lottery money on it. We place way too much emphasis on college educations anyway… a lot of kids would be happier, and our society would be better served, if we enabled kids to get training in the crafts and trades that our economy is losing fast as current craftsmen and tradesmen age and retire.
Awful, Awful, Awful
August 31st, 2010
8:47 pm
Well DUH again……The Ga. Lottery sounds just like our federal government…..spending more than we take in. If you’ve only got so much money, cut it off when you’ve reached the limit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Really amazed
August 31st, 2010
10:08 pm
@Pluto, you are sooooo on target!!!!! Every parent wants the easy A it is becoming like the welfare system!!! Don’t work and still receive free/gov’t money. Entitlement all the way! Then they wonder why little Johnny grew up and is still living at home because he couldn’t get through college or get a decent job. Keep enabling these kids and see what happens!!! If only parents realized that little Johnny would be better off learning something that will help him get through college not just to it!!!!!! I will admit I have freaked out a few times myself and still do when my son brings home lower than expected grades, however if he always brought home A’s like he use to before high school than I would also realize that he must not be in challenging enough classes. He did bring home a few b’s last year but boy is his school truly preparing them for college. Teaching them how to study and learn not just inflate the grades. I joke around with him often and tell him he would have it so much easier if he were to go to the local public high school down the street. I laughed the other day when a friend told me… her daughter had to read a book over the summer and only had a study guide. I told her my son had to read four books and hopefully took good notes as they don’t even get a study guide. This is truly college prep. I told her they have trouble at first however, once use to it, they learn to take better notes. Just like in college. Am I off my rocker he might not get that perfect gpa but guess what?? The colleges know what is happening in Georgia public high schools with grade inflation and WILL look to see if that GPA adds up to the SAT/ACT score.
Warrior Woman
September 1st, 2010
1:44 pm
@Random Thought – Actually SAT scores predict college success (or at least freshman year success) very well. Since most that lose HOPE do so during their freshman year, a SAT requirement would be very helpful.
@Cissy – The people “teaching” the lottery-funded pre-K often do not have college degrees and aren’t using the variety of language to give the benefits you mention.
admin
September 1st, 2010
2:33 pm
DO y’all realize there is a difference between the HOPE scholarship and the HOPE grant? While y’all are spending your efforts trying to decide how some deserving students can be left out of the HOPE scholarship, there are thousands of students, at the technical colleges, who are raiding the HOPE grant, Many of these students become eligible for the grant after living in GA for one year (and it’s hell to prove it) and they are ineligible for the scholarship. After completing the diploma using the HOPE grant, they switch over the the Associates degree and only have to pay for few classes out of pocket. If that’s not a scam, then I don’t know what is. GSFC needs to look in this on.
Mike
September 7th, 2010
9:30 pm
Maybe if they spent the money for what it was intended instead of somebody’s pork project then the fund would be solvent…why would lottery funds pay for a 50 million dollar facility for Georgia Public Broadcasting in Atlanta (All the while they beg for donations) or funding for museums in Augusta and Warner Robbins…let’s face it, the same thing that happened in Florida has happened here…the money should have been for college students ONLY…all you who want the students to reimburse $7,000.00…where do you think they will get that kind of money? Or mom’s and dad’s can just save up the money leading up to college…really? The cost of higher education is outrageous! it has risen higher in the last ten years than ANYTHING else…they charge a “fee” for everything imaginable…