All-star roster of education researchers: Test scores unreliable, unfair and unhelpful in evaluating teachers
In the midst of a controversial LA Times series linking teacher performance in that district to test scores, a new briefing paper was released today by the Economic Policy Institute cautioning against the use of test scores, the Value Added Model, to judge teacher performance.
The 27-page paper — by a blue ribbon collection of educaion researchers including Eva L. Baker, Paul E. Barton, Linda Darling-Hammond, Edward Haertel, Helen F. Ladd , Robe rt L. Linn, Diane Ravitch, Richard Rothstein, Richard J. Shavelson, and Lorrie A. Shepard - lists many negative impacts from judging teachers largely on student test scores. They also point to studies that cite the unreliability of scores.
My first response to this paper is wonder if there is any school system with the time, resources or staffing to conduct the thoughtful and deeper evaluations that these researchers recommend. The comprehensive evaluation model they suggest could be applied in many professions, except that it calls for resources and time that I don’t think too many companies have any longer. And I certainly don’t think schools do in this current bleak climate that will likely persist for a few more years.
Here are key passages, but please read the entire paper. I think many of you will be applauding its position. Also, I have added the link to the LA Times investigation, which is a powerful piece of journalism and creating quite a stir. So, forget about the wash and the grocery store, read both of these and let us know what you think:
A review of the technical evidence leads us to conclude that, although standardized test scores of students are one piece of information for school leaders to use to make judgments about teacher effectiveness, such scores should be only a part of an overall comprehensive evaluation. Some states are now considering plans that would give as much as 50% of the weight in teacher evaluation and compensation decisions to scores on existing tests of basic skills in math and reading. Based on the evidence, we consider this unwise.
Any sound evaluation will necessarily involve a balancing of many factors that provide a more accurate view of what teachers in fact do in the classroom and how that contributes to student learning.
For a variety of reasons, analyses of VAM results have led researchers to doubt whether the methodology can accurately identify more and less effective teachers. VAM estimates have proven to be unstable across statistical models, years, and classes that teachers teach. One study found that across five large urban districts, among teachers who were ranked in the top 20% of effectiveness in the first year, fewer than a third were in that top group the next year, and another third moved all the way down to the bottom 40%. Another found that teachers’ effectiveness ratings in one year could only predict from 4% to 16% of the variation in such ratings in the following year.
Thus, a teacher who appears to be very ineffective in one year might have a dramatically different result the following year. The same dramatic fluctuations were found for teachers ranked at the bottom in the first year of analysis. This runs counter to most people’s notions that the true quality of a teacher is likely to change very little over time and raises questions about whether what is measured is largely a “teacher effect” or the effect of a wide variety of other factors.
A study designed to test this question used VAM methods to assign effects to teachers after controlling for other factors, but applied the model backwards to see if credible results were obtained. Surprisingly, it found that students’ fifth grade teachers were good predictors of their fourth grade test scores. Inasmuch as a student’s later fifth grade teacher cannot possibly have influenced that student’s fourth grade performance, this curious result can only mean that VAM results are based on factors other than teachers’ actual effectiveness.
VAM’s instability can result from differences in the characteristics of students assigned to particular teachers in a particular year, from small samples of students (made even less representative in schools serving disadvantaged students by high rates of student mobility), from other influences on student learning both inside and outside school, and from tests that are poorly lined up with the curriculum teachers are expected to cover, or that do not measure the full range of achievement of students in the class.
The paper concludes:
Although some advocates argue that admittedly flawed value-added measures are preferred to existing cumbersome measures for identifying, remediating, or dismissing ineffective teachers, this argument creates a false dichotomy. It implies there are only two options for evaluating teachers—the ineffectual current system or the deeply flawed test-based system. Yet there are many alternatives that should be the subject of experiments. The Department of Education should actively encourage states to experiment with a range of approaches that differ in the ways in which they evaluate teacher practice and examine teachers’ contributions to student learning. These experiments should all be fully evaluated.
There is no perfect way to evaluate teachers. However, progress has been made over the last two decades in developing standards-based evaluations of teaching practice, and research has found that the use of such evaluations by some districts has not only provided more useful evidence about teaching practice, but has also been associated with student achievement gains and has helped teachers improve their practice and effectiveness.
Structured performance assessments of teachers like those offered by the National Board for Professional Teaching Standards and the beginning teacher assessment systems in Connecticut and California have also been found to predict teacher’s effectiveness on value-added measures and to support teacher learning. These systems for observing teachers’ classroom practice are based on professional teaching standards grounded in research on teaching and learning. They use systematic observation protocols with well-developed, research-based criteria to examine teaching, including observations or videotapes of classroom practice, teacher interviews, and artifacts such as lesson plans, assignments, and samples of student work. Quite often, these approaches incorporate several ways of looking at student learning over time in relation to the teacher’s instruction.
Evaluation by competent supervisors and peers, employing such approaches, should form the foundation of teacher evaluation systems, with a supplemental role played by multiple measures of student learning gains that, where appropriate, should include test scores. Given the importance of teachers’ collective efforts to improve overall student achievement in a school, an additional component of documenting practice and outcomes should focus on the effectiveness of teacher participation in teams and the contributions they make to school-wide improvement, through work in curriculum development, sharing practices and materials, peer coaching and reciprocal observation, and collegial work with students.
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111 comments Add your comment
Jordan Kohanim
August 29th, 2010
9:30 am
Thank you for this article, Maureen. I think your conclusions are accurate. To correctly evaluate teachers, schools would have to devote much more time and money than they have. For that reason, test scores will likely become the evaluative method. Obviously that is not only a false tool, it also hurts student learning in the long run.
The question is–what method can systems use? Replacing one broken system for another broken system won’t work. Yet, ignoring the problem isn’t feasible either. I just wish I could come up with a solution.
say what?
August 29th, 2010
9:47 am
Too bad GA doesn’t let research get in its way of doing something.
ScienceTeacher671
August 29th, 2010
9:58 am
Thanks for posting, Maureeen! I think ClassKeys and the assessments derived from it (our RESA has come up with a “condensed version”) strive to be the sort of assessment the article calls for, but like you, I don’t think schools really have “the time, resources, or staffing” necessary to conduct these evaluations properly.
Our administrators barely have the time to get in the required 20 minute GTOI observations of each teacher. I don’t know how they are going to find time to implement the ClassKeys-type observations properly, and that concerns me — I’m afraid they are going to try to fit the expanded observation instrument into the same 20 minute time frame, resulting in even more skewed results.
Laurie
August 29th, 2010
10:11 am
Maureen said: “My first response to this paper is wonder if there is any school system with the time, resources or staffing to conduct the thoughtful and deeper evaluations that these researchers recommend. The comprehensive evaluation model they suggests … calls for resources and time that I don’t think too many companies have any longer.”
“A crude measure of the right thing beats a precise measure of the wrong thing.” -John Carver
Ann B.
August 29th, 2010
10:16 am
There is a way to effectively evaluate teachers. If leaders in buildings would stop micromanaging staffs, which takes endless time on a daily basis, and really observe what is going on in classrooms, there’s no doubt in my mind ineffective teachers could be weeded out. The trend now is to pop in classrooms for 40 seconds and then provide feedback. What feedback? Leaders in buildings today are appointed based on political moves within the school systems they serve. It’s not what you know; it’s who you know. 95% of the leaders I have worked under the last 20+ years in the classroom, should never have been appointed as leaders. Competent supervisors do not exist in education.
The Dean
August 29th, 2010
10:21 am
Bad test scores + Unchecked Principals with too much power= Cheating
Happy Teacher
August 29th, 2010
10:23 am
I just hope that because evaluating teachers is difficult, we don’t give up on it. It is vitally important that we take teacher quality more seriously. Imagine how much more successful the 85% of the profession that does a good-to-great job could be if they weren’t trying to make up for the 15% that does a poor job.
Teacher/Learner
August 29th, 2010
10:26 am
You’re right on about the time required to assess deep thinking…but it must be done so that teachers can assess whether or not their teaching is working and adjust their instruction. Does that mean LENGTHY constructed response every week – NO! Teachers can assign themselves 4-5 kids/day to conference with and follow across the day. Perhaps beginning, at mid-point, and at the end of a unit (ex: 3rd graders developing the ability to compare and contrast the reasons characters seem to change in stories), children are given assessments that are evaluated by a group of teachers as well as the kids’ teacher. The rest of the time, careful observation notes can guide “next steps”. So what about standardized tests – throw them out? NO! BE HONEST ABOUT WHAT THE INSTRUMENT CAN TELL A STAKEHOLDER ABOUT A CHILD’S ABILITY TO DO “WHATEVER” INDEPENDENTLY WITH AUTHENTIC TEXTS, OR IN THE CASE OF MATHEMATICS, SOLVE REAL WORLD PROBLEMS, SEEING THE POSSIBLE PATHS FOR MATHEMATICAL SOLUTIONS, AND THE ABILITY TO JUSTIFY AND COMMUNICATE REASONING. At present, no one educates the public.
Thanks so much for this article, Maureen – I’m going to read it now…
NWGA teacher
August 29th, 2010
10:37 am
@ Laurie: YES.
Dr. John Trotter
August 29th, 2010
10:49 am
A loose net will catch any incompetent teacher, but a tight net will suffocate the whole teaching profession — like what is going on now and has been happening in Georgia since the mid 1980s when QBE was first implemented. I agree with “The Dean’s” observation above. Now back to Joel Osteen. Overslept for church today! The Philistines and Pharisees are now running our public schools! We need a John the Baptist “to warn them to flee from the wrath to come.” Hey “Dean,” should I stretch the metaphors to boldly state that many of today’s administrators are “broods of vipers”? LOL.
Chuckles
August 29th, 2010
10:59 am
@ Laurie Yes. John Carver quote was right on point! Lets build around that thought. In the BIG picture too much government is a bad thing. Because they will asks the wrong questions. Keep K12 simple Reading Writing n 2+2. Reading should be #1. Graduate a good reader and he/she will make it.
catlady
August 29th, 2010
11:01 am
Dr. T: How about the “den of thieves?”
schlmarm
August 29th, 2010
11:12 am
Every politician in Georgia starting with the governor and his “cabinet” should get a copy of this article.
ScienceTeacher671
August 29th, 2010
11:14 am
From the article: “Schools that have adopted pull-out, team teaching, or block scheduling practices will only inaccurately be able to isolate individual teacher “effects” for evaluation, pay, or disciplinary purposes.”
Looks as if Georgia needs to re-evaluate its recommended instructional practices if it wants to implement merit pay accurately.
Of course, that’s taking the optimistic view that they actually want to do so, and aren’t trying to find a way to cut pay. There’s also the point that teachers undergoing evaluations such as that required for NBCT improve/are better teachers, but our General Assembly doesn’t want to fund a proven mechanism, preferring to spend our already limited funds to develop a new and unproven mechanism.
And there’s the research correlating student achievement with teacher SAT scores, but if we raised the requirements for admission to teacher certification programs, how would we fill the classrooms?
Dr. John Trotter
August 29th, 2010
11:15 am
Brother Joel finished a little early today. Good message. Now back to this whole snoopervision thing which has been strangling public education for the last 25 years. It began to rear its head in the late 1970s here in Georgia with the now-infamous Teacher Performance Assessment Instrument (TPAI) which the courts in Georgia kicked out because of its inequitable results, abuse, etc. At the time, the new teachers were sentenced to suffer through this TPAI hell. I remember one gentleman who is now teaching (perhaps close to retirement now) in Glynn County who kept failing the “observation” of TPAI at a school in Morrow, Georgia. He had a wonderful principal, but a horrible, myopic assistant principal lady who apparently had it in for Jim. She was either totally incompetent herself or simply was going to refuse to allow Jim to pass his “evaluation.” She kept getting him on “enthusiasm.” Jim told me that he was so “enthusiastic” that he was almost jumping over chairs! This “evaluator” succeeded in ruining this man’s career. He ended up working at a restaurant in St. Simons Island. True story.
When the courts finally kicked out this hellish TPAI, Jim was allowed to teach again, which he did at Glynn Middle School (and I think that he is still there to this day and getting along swimmingly). I knew Jim and his mother who had retired from the Clayton County School System back in the 1970s. Good folks. Jim is a good educator, but he is only one example of many teachers whose lives were destroyed by petty, myopic, and mean-spirited (and often totally incompetent) administrators. (c) MACE, August 29, 2010.
Dr. John Trotter
August 29th, 2010
11:16 am
Catlady: I love “den of thieves”! So appropriate!
Teach2Learn
August 29th, 2010
11:20 am
@ Happy Teacher – I can’t know if your 85/15% split is accurate but your comment about great teachers making up for the failures of the few is right on target.
Nona
August 29th, 2010
11:24 am
Common sense, and a good look at the content of these tests themselves, tell us that test scores in general are a lazy, lame, cop-out way to evaluate teachers. Nice to have some excellent research to validate common sense.
d
August 29th, 2010
11:36 am
I think this would be good information for certain interim deputy superintendents of teaching and learning who wants to place any teacher with less than 70% of students scoring 70% on benchmark exams on PDPs but not giving them appropriate time to in his own words “scaffold” the concepts before the benchmark exam must be administered.
Teacher/Learner
August 29th, 2010
11:37 am
@Nona, we don’t get to see the tests, only the scores. It’s all kept secret. Can you imagine the hullaboo that would be raised if Mark Richt did not get to watch the game, was only given the scores at the end of each quarter, and the final score, then was told to make his coaching better…
Echo
August 29th, 2010
11:43 am
“Evaluation by competent supervisors and peers…” key word here is competent. I have met a handful of “competent” administrators. Currently I have 2 extremely incompetent administrators directly over me. Petty, vindictive and unethical would be pretty accurate descriptions of these 2. When are some new policies going to be implemented to rein in these types of administrators?
rbn
August 29th, 2010
11:44 am
Another example of the challenge ahead to reform education. Sadly, Georgia has wasted so much time and money chasing cheap false fixes while cutting to the marrow the basics, we may never get to the point where real, long term reform trumps fads, phonies, and idealogically driven shams.
linda
August 29th, 2010
12:03 pm
What do they expect school districts to do? With the working conditions (primary) and lack of opportunity for worthwhile pay increases (close second) for talented instructors it is amazing that schools have attracted the good teachers they have. In the ways they are trying to improve education, do the educrats not realize that they are making the situation worse?
Ole Guy
August 29th, 2010
12:05 pm
I wholeheartedly disagree with the very concept of the incompetent teacher as being a cause of academic weaknesses in students. Are there teachers who, in and of themselves, may be incompetent? Absolutely! They passed state muster by indicating some sort of desire to teach. They gained their degrees, certifications, etc…but, somehow, failed at the crucial point of student contact…the real world.
So what do we do? Eject them outright; hold THEM accountable for the miserable academic performances of students?
What ever happened to 1) employee development, and 2) STUDENT ACCOUNTABILITY? Assuming a teacher comes to the dance with minimal qualifications, does that teacher’s supervision have a responsibility to develop that teacher? Therefore, it must be the supervisors’ fault, and, by default, the principals’ fault for student failures.
Let’s stop making teachers walk the plank, and place responsibility where it belongs. Let’s hold the kids’ feet to the fires of accountability, as well.
The current ed system is so disfunctional at this point that it won’t be too long before the requirements for honor grads will be the ability to spell CAT and DOG correctly.
Hey Teacher
August 29th, 2010
12:06 pm
Echo — I hear you. Most administrators I’ve worked for only taught for a few years and have nothing constructive to say to me. In my last evaluation, I was told to laminate the standards. I have multiple degrees, including AP and Gifted certifications and all he/she could find to say about my classroom was to laminate something? Really? We need to stop fast-tracking folks into admin just because they know how to wear a suit.
Hey Teacher
August 29th, 2010
12:15 pm
Dr. T — argh — I remember the TPAI!!! I passed it (took me two tries) but can’t for the life of me figure out what it did for my teaching. I flunked the first portfolio (they pretty much just flunked everyone the first time through) but passed the oral part and had to do the whole thing over again. What a nightmare for a young, enthusiastic teacher just out of school. I almost quit because of it.
Concerned 1
August 29th, 2010
12:20 pm
They will do what they want to do and as teachers we will have to deal with their nonsense , comme d’habitude…we will still do our very best to educate your children until such time that we are all eliminated and replaced by “Stepford Teachers.”
J.B. STONER
August 29th, 2010
12:32 pm
Hope yall saw what orginization gathered in Washington yesterday.
Great turnout for a country on the rebound.
We will NOT be forced to give up our christianity by liberal government.
THANK YOU GLENN BECK FOR POSSESING THE STONES TO LEAD THIS CAUSE.
More will follow.’Good time Charlie’ going away .
Echo
August 29th, 2010
12:37 pm
@ Hey Teacher…the guy in charge yells, yes YELLS, at teachers in front of students. He did it Friday during an emergency drill. At every faculty meeting we have had, including pre-planning, he mentions that “if you aren’t happy here you can leave, there are hundreds of unemployed teachers who would love to have your job.” I am a member of MACE and they are aware of the situation.
d
August 29th, 2010
12:45 pm
@Hey Teacher – well it’s even better now since we “won” the RTTT grant, we can now hire principals right off the street as long as they have a bachelor’s degree and management experience.
Middle School Science Teacher
August 29th, 2010
12:46 pm
I’d be glad to have test scores influence my pay IF and ONLY IF the test scores were taken from a pre-test and post-test of the curriculum that I teach……………..
Concerned 1
August 29th, 2010
12:53 pm
@Echo…don’t worry; hundreds if not thousands of us are retiring this year before they can change Teacher’s Retirement to our detriment. That should free up some positions so he won’t be able to yell out that nonsense anymore. Hang in there.
Real Reformer
August 29th, 2010
12:53 pm
As a former teacher and the daughter of a former school superintendent and school board chair, I see both sides. I am an active volunteer at my son’s school and I see teachers going above and beyond the call of duty. I also see teachers who seem to be totally checked out and just getting by. There are also two extremes on the parent side. First, I see parents who are more concerned about why their child’s cell phone was taken away (reason: it’s against the rules and that is clearly stated!) than about whether the homework gets done. They annoy teachers constantly about things that should be THEIR responsibility because they don’t want to let their kids learn to be accountable for their own mistakes and apathy. They are so focused on their child getting the best grades, or not being penalized in any way for any reason, they will take petty complaints to the principal and beyond. They won’t let their kids learn that valuable lesson — life isn’t always fair, not every teacher will be your favorite. Learn to deal with it (of course, I exclude instances of physical and verbal abuse and other unprofessional behavior, which I have also seen)!!
On the other end of the spectrum, parents call and ask for directions to the school when their kid is graduating — they’ve never been there before for any reasons. Over half the parents won’t join the PTA. They don’t open their kids’ grade reports when they come in the mail. They expect the school to be disciplinarian, meal provider, and baby sitter.
Neither of these extremes is good. We need to think of teachers as professionals, pay them like professionals, and hold them accountable as professionals. BUT — parents need to be accountable, too. When parents are aware and informed of their child’s progress and problems, when they’ll courteously ask a teacher for assistance without accusing them, when they monitor their own children’s progress and don’t make excuses for their misbehavior or lack of interest in school, when they deliver the kids to school with a good night’s sleep and the supplies/resources they are supposed to have…
….when all that happens, I will be the first to support abolition of tenure, merit pay and bonuses for good teachers, and swift firing for those who don’t do their job.
It’s got to be mutual. I am tired of parents who will pay thousands for pro sports tickets, and won’t contribute a dime or a minute of time to schools. We get what we pay for. Teaching is a job; so is BEING A PARENT.
8th grade teacher
August 29th, 2010
1:00 pm
Ole Guy – your comment about student accountability was dead-on. Too many kids know these tests don’t count for anything and then choose to give less than their best effort. My (8th grade) students told me that they were “tired” by the time science and social studies came around and just “did a lot of guessing.”
The science test itself seemed to be more of a reading comprehension test than a science test – the kids told me the questions were too long and they didn’t understand what the question was asking. That’s a problem, IMHO.
There are many parents who regularly complain about the validity of the CRCT in evaluating their child, yet some of these same people think that it’s a valid measure of teacher accountability – how can that be?
I’m not against accountability – I do a good job, and I get results. But from personal experience, I know how arbitrary these tests can be. I went from a 70%FRL school to a 50%FRL, and my scores jumped 10 points! Then I started teaching gifted, and my scores jumped another 15. I refuse to take credit for that. Comparison to their 7th grade scores is meaningless as 7th grade is an entirely different science. Pre and post-tests would be necessary, but that takes time and money to develop and ensure validity – not to mention the reduction of teaching time. If kids are being passed along with below level reading and math abilities, how do we ensure that the test is measuring their science knowledge and not their reading ability? Last thoughts – absenteeism and transiency – two things teachers are not in control of, yet are strong factors in determining how well a student does in school – how do we account for that??
MB
August 29th, 2010
1:04 pm
@d Some would likely be better if they had a BS in something meaningful and TRUE management experience. As mentioned above, they may only have 3 years of teaching experience, and some have it only team-teaching. I’ve seen a SAD lack of personnel administration acumen in school administration; certain that they had a different personnel class in ed leadership than I had in health care administration!
Agree with many posts above regarding a glaring problem with the proposed model of evaluation – the supposition that competent supervisors would be conducting the reviews.
Unfortunately, it seems that educational leadership is too often an oxymoron. Let’s hear a call for fewer administrators (of a system that’s not working) but for more leaders in education.
Hmmmm
August 29th, 2010
1:06 pm
@ Echo…..Wow….your principal and mine must be cut from the same cloth! These exact same words have been coming out of her mouth for the past year and a half! This same principal also embarrassed a teacher in front of the entire staff and faculty the first day of preplanning. What a way to motivate and inspire teachers during this time we are being asked to give more and more! Where are the good administrators and how do we get them in our schools? Teachers are being bled to death and the final casualties will be the students.
d
August 29th, 2010
1:06 pm
As much as I vouch for a pretest-posttest model, I’m just concerned about the pretests that I’ve been seeing this year as my benchmarks. They are using terms and concepts that students would have never been exposed to before in their curriculum so any questions that are answered correctly are likely due to a lucky guess. I haven’t been able to see my pretest data from our first benchmark so how the heck to do I utilize it to make sure I am making my instruction effective for my students?
Hmmmm
August 29th, 2010
1:08 pm
I forgot to add that until we get fair minded administrators, I really don’t want to be arbitrarily judged by someone who may have a vendetta against me!
Hmmmm
August 29th, 2010
1:10 pm
And what is this about changing Teacher’s Retirement? I have at least 12 more years before I can retire. Can anyone explain?
ScienceTeacher671
August 29th, 2010
1:11 pm
@Echo, I think I used to work for that guy….
OTOH, I have worked for at least two principals who would fit that description…
Echo
August 29th, 2010
1:12 pm
I wonder what would happen if there was a massive amount of grievances filed by teachers against these administrators? They are required to be heard by law. That would be very time consuming and costly…
Awful, Awful, Awful
August 29th, 2010
1:13 pm
So, whatever happened to just “Teaching”? I’ll tell you what happened……our stupid government and supreme court got in the way.
MB
August 29th, 2010
1:13 pm
However, it seems you probably shouldn’t try to be a leader in Fulton right now…where’s the story about the twenty-second principal change in Fulton for this school year, Maureen? How many does it take to see the flare? Is it not a clue that a termination was converted to a resignation, with full benefits for the rest of the year?
A principal is released because his secretary has too much authority, he refers to age and gender of an employee, and he makes no secret that he would have preferred to select his own leadership team. (Other “charges” seem to be in a similar vein.) This principal was BELOVED at his former school, but was terminated even though the school board voted unanimously to NOT terminate him. Huh?
http://www.northfulton.com/Articles-c-2010-08-23-184033.114126-sub_Insubordination_neglect_cited_as_reasons_for_termination_of_Birmingham_Falls_ES_principal.html
catlady
August 29th, 2010
1:34 pm
I am responsible for teaching (many different ways, using different modalities and “research-based best practices”; my students are responsible for learning. There is a difference!
Number 2: we need to quit treating all kids like they are sped. In our system, that is what we have done. (Most of us think it is because the 2nd in command has family members who are the laziest, most pampered, unmotivated kids on earth, and she is trying to set rules so that she doesn’t have to do so much homework for them!)
Number 3: We need principals and APs and CO “managers” with SIGNIFICANT teaching experience, preferably in more than one subject or grade level! I would say a minimum of 15 years of daily, full-blown, classroom experience. And they need to be rotated back into the classroom every five years, for at least 2 years of “refresher course.”
And, finally, we have to be more willing to involve DFACS and the courts. After all, when we don’t, we wind up paying for these kids’ lack of effort for the rest of their (or our) lives! When we see parents called on their negligence in their children’s education, we will see a quick improvement in parental effort!
Now, for something completely different: I call out a BRAVO to Ms. Downey for printing something with some real meat in it. Agree with its conclusions or not, it is more than the fluff we generally see.
benny
August 29th, 2010
1:36 pm
I believe everyone has missed the entire concept. This is not about educating students or bad teachers. This is about politics. How else is a politician supposed to get “face time” unless they try to inflame passions. I just retired from teaching and the current political economy made up my mind. Students are now part of a business model. They are widgets and that is all. I have no respect for anyone trying to fix education uless they have spent MANY years in the classroom actively teaching the hormonally challenged, fighting the stupid paperwork battle, trying to get things done for politically motivated administrators, and dealing with parents that think their little sweetie is perfect (cough, cough). Finally, just because a parent thinks a teacher is “bad” does not make them bad. Just because a teacher does not teach non stop for the entire class period does not make them bad. In fact, I am not really sure what is the definition of a “bad” teacher. If you do not try new things in the classroom then you become stagnant. There are things that sometimes do not work. Does that make a bad teacher? Students cannot sit for many hours every day taking notes and stay attentive to the curriculum. They do need some periodic work that changes up their day. What is great about our education system is that it has many built in safety nets. Very few students are ready for advanced, rigorous classes all day long. Some drop out and some fail. There are altenatives and they are GED for dropouts, community colleges for those not as prepared, technical schools that prepare for the workforce. There are more and yet everything is bad about our educational system. Very sad that this is what we have come to and I still see very few parents volunteering to work in schools, politicians talking to teachers and students, etc. Very sad indeed.
William Casey
August 29th, 2010
1:43 pm
JORDAN KOHANIM, in the very first comment, hit the nail on the head— “To correctly evaluate teachers, schools would have to devote much more time and money than they have.”
Teacher evaluation is a vexing problem because teaching is a complex task. I was an administrator at Chattahoochee High School in the mid-1990’s. I didn’t do teacher evaluations but observed very closely the administraors who did. They tried to do a good job but the demands of the AP job made it almost impossible. I would describe these evaluations as “perfunctorary,” at best. Evaluations were ALWAYS way down the priority list of “things to do.” Had to be. Try running a school and see.
I was “evaluated” many times over my 27 years in the classroom. These observations were 15-minute snapshots usually done by people untrained in my subject… history.
The current movement toward “teacher evaluation by student test scores” will yield only “second-hand” imformation. There are far too many intervening variables between teacher effort/competence and student performance, the students’ home situations being the most important one. Still, test scores could be useful IF they are used in the context of a sound overall evaluation program.
What to do? First, take the teacher observation task away from assistant principals. They have far too much to do, God bless them. Second, create observation teams of “outside,” experienced educators who ARE NOT associated with the individual school. These observers would change schools each year to maintain objectivity. OK, where do we get these people? We would tap a heretofore untapped source of talented and experienced people: RETIRED TEACHERS (I am one.) I could provide excellent evaluations for at least ten history teachers based on 8-10 observations AND in-depth study of their teaching/testing materials. I also wouldn’t charge exorbitant “consulting fees.” I have many ideas for recruiting and training these outside observers but those ideas will have to wait.
This would be a SERIOUS (and fair) system, blending professional observations by an impartial expert with student test scores.
William Casey
August 29th, 2010
1:46 pm
BENNY just raised a lot of good points.
thankateacher
August 29th, 2010
1:46 pm
Ask Douglas County teachers what they are trying to pull with teacher evaluations this year. It appears that they want to evaluate teachers based on COACH reading and math scores. They are not even asking for growth, Students have to make 75% or higher on the COACH Reading and Math tests and those will be tied to teacher evaluations. If you have a stacked class with EIP students, you don’t stand a chance.
thankateacher
August 29th, 2010
1:47 pm
Filter?
William Casey
August 29th, 2010
1:47 pm
CATLADY is still my hero.
Mikey D
August 29th, 2010
2:17 pm
C’mon Maureen….
You know that these “researchers” don’t know anything about education compared to sonny perdue and his yes-man bert brantley. The governor should do us all a favor and make a proclamation that this study in its entirety is invalid. (Hope you’re picking up my sarcasm ’cause I’m laying it on thick!)
@thankateacher… I also teach in Douglas Co and am appalled by the use of the coach system this year. Douglas Co is sinking fast, and I will be out of here as soon as the market picks back up and positions can be found elsewhere. Douglas Co is the home of the WORST building-level administrators and most bloated and ineffective central office in the state.
Observer with no dog in this fight...
August 29th, 2010
2:28 pm
This vent is the worst PR for the teaching profession. Many teachers who comment (with a time stamp indicating they should be teaching students), will NEVER acknowledge there are BAD teachers who are destroying the lives of children daily. It is disheartening because you teachers teach next door to them. The students share with you teachers who they are. The parents share with you teachers who are not helping students. You hear about the parents who come by the school or call and BEG the administrator to not put their kid in that BAD teacher’s classroom.
You teachers tell your FRIENDS about the BAD teachers and how to navigate the system to avoid them. Yet, when you are on this vent, you fail acknowledge there are bad teachers in the profession. I suspect that because so many posters here have had a bad experience with an administrator, you may be the BAD teacher.
Because you only speak of yourselves as victims and do not speak out against the bad teachers, you are hurting the profession. The police have their code of silence. Well, teachers have their code of silence as well.
A hint for teachers, the victim argument will not work anymore. There is a LARGE segment of the country who are experiencing true victimhood. They are in no mood to hear about your few days in furloughs when they are losing jobs. They are in no mood because they are losing homes. They are in no mood because they and their children are losing peace of mind.
d
August 29th, 2010
2:36 pm
@Awful — you say the government gets in the way – so why do we, the voters, keep electing these clowns in to office? It’s our fault for falling in to party lines without actually doing any research on the candidates and demanding that the parties actually put forward quality candidates – just look at the clowns we have running for governor this year.
Kyle
August 29th, 2010
2:36 pm
Excellent Article. I will have to read the LA Times report and the full paper later, but I wanted to say that issues like these are really important. I am a Social Studies Ed. student at UGA and I wish we talked about things like this more in our university classes. We definitely have to get beyond standardized testing as the way to measure teacher performance, and I think it would be wise for any principal or school leader to invest time and money into measures like these. I think that evaluating teachers effectively and then providing the training and assistance necessary to help struggling teachers is the most important thing a school can do. This will directly affect student performance in the classroom. For some arguments about the importance of a good teacher, check out some of the work Teach for America has done and the research showing how much a good teacher can help struggling students. There was a good piece in the Atlantic Magazine at the beginning of the year.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/01/what-makes-a-great-teacher/7841/
Mikey D
August 29th, 2010
2:38 pm
Hey observer…
I’ll be the first to admit that there are some REALLY bad teachers. I don’t want them teaching my child any more than you do. But I don’t think that I’m playing a victim by insisting that I be judged on things I can control, rather than having my livelihood threatened by factors that lie entirely outside of my control. If you only look at test scores, then you are failing to see the dedicated teachers who give everything they have and more to special ed, EIP, and impoverished students on a daily basis. Those scores may not be as high as in other circumstances, but there’s no simple way to reduce a teacher’s effectiveness into a neat, clean, easy little number which is what perdue wants to do.
BTW, feel free to check my time stamp. Because even though I will be doing hours of work today, it is still Sunday, and I do have the right to be here.
HStchr
August 29th, 2010
2:39 pm
The problem is the decision makers want a quick, black/white, easy measure of teacher effectiveness, and it just isn’t there. Test scores have always been highly unreliable, and we see from APS how too much emphasis on a single test score influences people!! Yes, effective evaluation will be tedious in the short-term. But, standards-based evaluations conducted by a variety of trained PEERS and administrators could work and wouldn’t be that hard to develop. Face it, you know who the good teachers are in your building, and it doesn’t take a complicated, biased, subjective evaluation tool to prove this. We also don’t need to put so much power in the hands of a single administrator whose personal feelings heavily influence responses on evaluation instruments. There should be three- a building administrator, a colleague in the same department, and an independent evaluator- God knows we have plenty of overpaid county office people in most systems who could be given a real job for a change!
I teach all remediation style classes. I LOVE those kids and enjoy the detective work it takes to find out and address learning problems. However, if my effectiveness is tied to pass/fail rate on one standardized test, I’m doomed. My kids grow exponentially, but how can I be fairly judged? I move kids up at least two grade levels in reading/writing every year, but the majority are still not at high school level and may not be in four years of high school. Bring on accountability, but let’s find a fair way to assess it.
8th grade teacher
August 29th, 2010
2:46 pm
Dear “Observer…Fight” – please say that you are not blanketing us all w/ your statements. I, for one, am the first to admit that there ARE bad teachers – just as there are bad parents, doctors, dentists, lawyers…well, you get the point. The so-called Peter Principle (that folks rise to their level of incompetence) wouldn’t be as funny if it weren’t indeed often true. I see more comments that acknowledge poor teachers FROM TEACHERS than comments stating that all teachers are perfect. Maybe you’re reading a different blog (or both our biases are showing – oops).
Malpractice insurance wouldn’t exist if every doctor were a miracle worker. There wouldn’t be kids in the neighborhood with whom the other kids’ parents don’t want them to play if every child were an angel and every parent the perfect blend of John Rosemond and Dr. Spock – there also wouldn’t be post after post on the Momania blog about parents who let their kids run wild in the ______ (fill in the blank with the location of your choice).
We know who the bad teachers are – they are the ones for whom we are expected to pick up the slack. However, outside of being willing testify at an appeal (which I have done), the classroom teacher has absolutely no control over a peer’’s evaluations – it’s all on the administrators. If a bad teacher is still at a school, it’s an administrative problem, not a teaching problem. I have been lucky to work at two different schools with strong administrators who weren’t afraid to go through the processes to get rid of bad teachers. Sadly it’s apparent that not all teachers can say the same.
Get off your high horse about the “victimhood,” please – we are ALL victims of this bad economy, and to try to say that others have it worse simply because they are in the private sector is ignorant. Teachers are not immune to having spouses or other family members lose their job. Teachers may have had two jobs to make ends meet, and lost one. Teachers are being “RIFed,” furloughed, and having paycuts and insurance increases. To think that anyone deserves less sympathy than another because of their vocational choice is just ridiculous (and I’m not complaining – I’m explaining).
BTW – what did your rant have to do with the question of the validity of testing? Or was “get in a little teaching-bashing” on your list of things to do today?
Atlanta mom
August 29th, 2010
2:57 pm
Observer,
You expressed my thoughts, exactly. According to this blog, all/most/85% of teachers are good. All administers are bad. There’s not a parent out there who cares. We can’t evaluate teachers because it’s too hard.
My experience has been: most teachers were good until we hit High School. At our HS, maybe 50% of the teachers are good. And I’m not the only parent who believes that. A group of involved parents were talking about this topic and the feeling was somewhere between 33 and 60% of the teachers at our high school are competent. It’s a good year at our HS if your student has 2 good teachers and only 2 bad teachers (and 4 middle of the road teachers)
I don’t believe I have sufficient knowledge/ experiences with administrators to express an opinion about them.
I haven’t had a chance to read the articles referred to in this article, but is there anything about parent input for teacher evaluation?
8th grade teacher
August 29th, 2010
2:59 pm
Upon reading the LA Times article, one thing that stuck out was that they used SEVEN YEARS of data from testing. One of the study’s concerns was sample size – the larger sample size of seven years helps that. However, that leads to more questions: how many new teachers leave before seven years are up? How many teachers change subject or grade levels during those seven years, and how does that affect the sample size?
Addressing teacher quality, I do think that schools of education have to be more picky about who they let in – systems need to have better training and mentoring in place for new teachers. Still, I would be concerned if I were a new teacher, that this type of evaluation would have a detrimental effect on my career right from the get-go. It is often said that teaching is one of the few professions where a newbie is expected to perform at the same level as a 20 year veteran. How do we account for a learning curve (not to mention new teachers are usually stuck in either the “undesirable” schools or given the toughest kids).
Teacher/Learner
August 29th, 2010
3:09 pm
@Maureen, what are the chances of you getting this article into the hand of the DOE, the State Board of Education, the sitting Governor, the governor to be, AND ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE AJC?
MomandTeacher
August 29th, 2010
3:13 pm
Every teacher knew what the article addressed before they were done with their research. The question is: do the superintendents, principals, and lawmakers read these pieces/comments? That’s what this inquiring mind would like to know.
duke
August 29th, 2010
3:18 pm
This stuff is not hard; education bureaucrats have made it hard. The problem is John Dewey’s progressive education, which began in experimental classes in 1904. American education has gone downhill ever since. The more money we spend, the worse it gets. It does not take anywhere near $10,000 per student per year to do this job. It takes a quiet place to study, and good textbooks. Period.
An international socialist and an atheist, Dewey did not believe in absolute truth. Everything changes, so there is no point in memorizing things. His first graduates could not use a dictionary or a telephone book because they had not memorized the alphabet. There is no point in teaching the absolutes of morality, government, and ethics. There is no point in rigorous intellectual content. The purpose of education is to inculcate social skills, and to develop the attitudes of good world citizens. Students must learn to renounce the primitive religious beliefs and national loyalties of their parents. Individual excellence is discouraged, because it separates a child from the social group.
Just find good textbooks, the ones produced without Dewey’s meddling, and teachers who will teach the content of those textbooks. It will soon become clear which teachers are failing. The fifth grade teacher will notice that graduates from his predecessor’s class are ill-prepared, etc.. But what we have today is the blind leading the blind- teachers themselves have not been taught competently- complicated by the fact that the powers in charge of the curriculum are not really interested in education, but in socialistic revolution.
Dr. John Trotter
August 29th, 2010
3:25 pm
@ ECHO: If this crazy and arrogant principal messes with you, you know what to do. Our slogan is very simple and direct: “MACE Devours Administrators Who Abuse Teachers.” This year, we have planned the “MACE Invasion.” It is completely legal but very high profile. Of course, we continue to use our customary strategies and tactics. In letters, hearings, rebuttals, pickets, grievances, and administrative evaluations on our website (www.theteachersadvocate.com), no one comes close to us. (In fact, our lawyers have been kicking some a_s in hearings this summer — winning a few and some headed straight to appeal…because of the biased and jaded format. Just ask a few law firms which represent school boards if they feel like they have been in a dog fight when MACE defends a teacher.)
PAGE and GAE are better than MACE when it comes to doing fluffy stuff like Spelling Bee Contests for kids and giving out tote bags for their members. Also, they send out some legislative updates (but they make very little difference when it actually comes to influencing the legislation — just look at the furloughs). I will, however, give GAE and PAGE some credit about fighting the merit pay push from the Governor Perdue. MACE fought like heck against this too! We wrote many articles against it. Organized with teachers who were not even MACE members and staged a public protest. I was even on the local news speaking out against this flawed concept. MACE picketed against merit pay for teachers at the Capitol — and I was almost arrested again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg10TwV-y5U
MACE knows its mission…protecting and empowering classroom educators…one member at a time. You’ll be hearing about the “MACE Invasion.” No arrogant and abusive administrative wants to see the “Normandy Forces” scaling the “Walls of Omaha Beach” at “his” or “her” school.
The “MACE Invasion” is a different twist than the very popular (with teachers!) pickets. By the way, last school year, MACE staged 29 pickets — in Cobb, Gwinnett, Atlanta, DeKalb, Clayton, and Fulton. Right off the top of my head, I think that these were the school systems which saw MACE Pickets this past school year. In the past, MACE has also staged pickets in Muscogee, Bibb, Newton, Gilmer, Henry, Griffin-Spalding, and Greene school systems (and perhaps a few more). I think that a MACE teacher loves a good picket more than anything else. We at MACE do many, many other activities, but this is our most public service for the teachers — and also our most popular service. The teachers just love to see their arrogant and abusive administrators squirming, sweating, and crying. They love it! (c) MACE, August 29, 2010.
8th grade teacher
August 29th, 2010
3:33 pm
From the article: “For example, if a third-grade student ranked in the 60th percentile among all district third-graders, he would be expected to rank similarly in fourth grade. If he fell to the 40th percentile, it would suggest that his teacher had not been very effective, at least for him. If he sprang into the 80th percentile, his teacher would appear to have been highly effective.”
While those assumptions might be valid, they don’t take into consideration the effect of the norm group. Two different students in two different years could theoretically get the identical score on a test, but be in a different percentile depending on how the norm group performed. A single question can result in as much a 10 point difference in percentile. At what sample number are we comfortable saying that we have eliminated inconsistencies enough to determine a trend? Three years? Five years? Seven?
Atlanta mom – are you reading the same blog I am? “According to this blog, all/most/85% of teachers are good. All administers are bad. There’s not a parent out there who cares. We can’t evaluate teachers because it’s too hard.”
IMHO, that’s not what is being said. At best that’s an oversimplification and generalization of some of the posts. I’m sorry your high school doesn’t have good teachers – that is an administrative problem. Most parents don’t deal w/ administrators unless there is a problem with their child, but if a school isn’t being run right, what does that say about that school’s leadership?
My daughter was in 9th grade when I began teaching – I am in my 10th year of teaching – so between my two children, I have more experience as a parent than as a teacher. My kids (both now graduated) had about 15 EXCELLENT teachers, a majority of good to above average teachers, and less than five truly poor teachers (none of whom are currently teaching anymore, BTW). I truly think that the really bad teachers do generally get weeded out if the administration is good. I also truly believe that teaching is no more or less likely than the general public to have its share of bad apples (pun not intended). Every job/career/profession has its poor performers, and I’m of the opinion that it runs at about 5 to 10% – bad waiters, salespeople, policemen, lawyers, doctors, etc. If you have an average, than 49% will be below that, right? This ain’t Lake Woebegon.
Devil's Advocate
August 29th, 2010
3:35 pm
Yes! Look at how MACE “devours” such administrators with rallies of 2, 3, sometimes 5! people in attendance!
http://www.theteachersadvocate.com/id87.html
Oooooh….scary.
money
August 29th, 2010
3:35 pm
What makes a bad teacher?
There is a teacher I know of that has the best EOCT scores in the county. However, this teacher will only explain the answer once and if a student happens to ask a question due to not understanding is hammered with “I just explained it; too bad”. Admin now only puts the top 10% of students in this teachers classes. Another teacher gets the lowest of the low; what I have heard refered to as “sweet and low”; has low EOCT scores, but has great classroom control, and progresses these “sweet and low” through the material the state mandates.
Which is the bad teacher?
Neither; a good admin will use the strengths of the teachers and manage.
Echo
August 29th, 2010
3:47 pm
Dr. Trotter, I have been in contact with MACE reps since May. I would like to see MACE come to my school, like PAGE and GAE, to talk with teachers…you may be surprised at what you hear.
Mickey D, and thankateacher…would you like to second this on MACE coming to Douglas County?
Echo
August 29th, 2010
3:50 pm
Devil’s Advocate = administrator. Your true colors are showing. It’s not the pickets, it’s the paperwork that scares administrators. But you already knew that.
Jordan Kohanim
August 29th, 2010
3:58 pm
This is a 3 minute video about the problem with linking test scores to teacher evaluations and pay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uONqxysWEk8
Devil's Advocate
August 29th, 2010
4:11 pm
Whatever you need to tell yourself echo…
Old Physics Teacher
August 29th, 2010
4:12 pm
I am SO GLAD I’m retiring in 3 years. There have been no positive aspects of politicians, and business executives, getting involved in education. I started teaching 18 years ago after dropping out of the “private sector” (I cut my pay 50% and never looked back) due to the ignorance of “executives” . You know, business school graduates drawing high pay for cutting costs to the bone and increasing profits to the detriment of the economy. These people destroy an entire sector of the economy, take their golden parachutes, move on to a new company, buy themselves more expensive politicians to act as “soiled doves,” and then destroy other companies. Now these “business executives” (Yes, I’m talking about Bill Gates too) want to apply the same criteria to teachers they applied to their employees, and the public, bless their ignorant hearts, agrees.
They first told us that the solution to our education problems was to hire “better people” to be teachers. That meant higher pay, because higher pay would attract “better” teachers. Now they complain about our pay, and want to talk about “Value Added” teaching, as if that will fix education. Well, when they allow me to decide which students I’ll teach, the same as any Quality Assurance Manager is authorized to refuse shipments of defective parts, I’ll be glad – actually THRILLED, to be judged on my quality of teaching. Until then, they need to shut up and learn about our profession, before they start telling us how to do a job they’re unqualified to do themselves.
As far as what to teach them, we’ve outsourced our low-level jobs to Malaysia, et al, and we’re out-sourced our high-paid programming jobs to India and Pakistan, not to mention the electronics industry being taken over ( due to our government’s and business community’s unwillingness to sue for patent infringement) by Asia. Our economy now is based on “consumerism,” whatever that is. We don’t make anything any more; we just buy things. What do they want us to teach our students – how to buy things? They already know that. Heck, they have credit cards of their own!
Who’s are these idiots going to get to work under these conditions? My youngest son, while an undergraduate at Georgia State, with a GPA closing on 4.0, was considering changing his degree to become a math teacher. When he told his fiance, she screamed at him, “Over my dead body, you’ll become a teacher! You better come up with a better idea than that!” I heartily agreed; he’s making over 95k a year, and no politician has any control over him. I feel sorry for the guys coming out of school now wanting to be a teacher, and I weep for my profession.
Atlanta mom
August 29th, 2010
4:17 pm
@8th grade teacher
You are correct, this blog on this day does not support my statement, “all/most/85% of teachers are good”. It certainly is a theme I have observed oftentimes in these blogs.
As for my statement: “All administrators are bad”, here a just a few quotes from the blog:
95% of the leaders I have worked under the last 20+ years in the classroom, should never have been appointed as leaders. Competent supervisors do not exist in education.
I have met a handful of “competent” administrators
Most administrators I’ve worked for only taught for a few years and have nothing constructive to say to me.
Where are the good administrators and how do we get them in our schools?
Very hard to find anything nice about any administrator, ever, in these blogs.
Dr. John Trotter
August 29th, 2010
4:19 pm
Devil’s Advocate: No, our standard picket is about “five guys” (like the hamburger place!). But, sometimes we send eight or nine. When you have guys in suits and ties with florescent color signs and bold statements on them, you don’t need to send him an army. MACE just sends sends in a strike force…sort of like the Navy Seals. In fact, we call our picketers “The MACE Strike Force.”
The particular link which you put up shows a picket in the pouring down rain at Atlanta’s Douglass High School. This principal also had a Complaint filed against him by a MACE teachers (assisted by MACE, of course) with the Professional Standards Commission (PSC). This principal mysteriously resigned in the middle of the school year…after this picket and the PSC Complaint. We also picketed his replacement, the interim principal, who told the Douglass teachers that they had to teach on Saturday; this illegal activity was also stopped by the picket. Furthermore, the principal before the one who resigned abruptly in the middle of the year also announced surprisingly in the Spring that he would not be back at Douglass High — after MACE had picketed him three times that year and had filed four PSC Complaints against two administrators — one was him — a counselor, and the Registrar. The PSC found against all four of them. I also send and 11 page letter to the superintendent, the school board, and thrroughout the State about one of the counselor’s threat on my life. You can read this letter on our website…it may be in the “Archives” section.
But, Devil’s Advocate, thanks for the opportunity for me to demonstrate to our readers just how the process works. By the way, I also had the principal (who had the three pickets against him in one year) in a Grievance Hearing downtown at the Taj Mahal Building on Trinity Avenue and…well, for those teachers who have even witnessed me engage in my “thorough and sifting” cross examination of an administrator, you can imagine how this made him feel. Devil’s Advocate, I’ve got a feeling that you have witnessed one of my cross examinations, eh? LOL. (c) MACE, August 29, 2010.
Echo
August 29th, 2010
4:20 pm
Atlanta mom – shouldn’t it tell you something when several people in the same profession in different locations are saying the same thing?
Dr. John Trotter
August 29th, 2010
4:27 pm
Good people: Forgive the typos. I was just pecking away, and I need to check more thoroughly before I submit.
Ed Johnson
August 29th, 2010
4:58 pm
Dear LAUSD Teachers (and US K-12 public ed teachers, everywhere):
RE: For example, http://tinyurl.com/2b9qjmt
Please forgive me.
I voted for Barack Obama.
I will not do so, again. I promise.
Again, please forgive me.
Sincerely,
Ed Johnson
Advocate for Quality in Public Education
Atlanta GA
edwjohnson@aol.com
http://www.ChangeTheSchools.ning.com
Dr. John Trotter
August 29th, 2010
5:04 pm
Teachers “Teach” The Students, Not “Learn” Them.
RTTT. Race To The Trough!
By John R. Alston Trotter, EdD, JD
CRCT, TPAI, NCLB, QBE, GTOI, GTDRI, APEG, Minimum Foundation, A+ Program, RTTT, and on and on. None have or will significantly improve education here in Georgia. What we need is Discipline In The Classrooms (DITC), Motivation From The Students (MFTS), and Decent Parents At Home (DPAH). But, how do you fund these essential components? Harping on these essential components will not secure politicians any votes, so they think. But, I think that they will secure votes! Nonetheless, President Obama and Arne Duncan, like most politicians (George W. Bush and the late Ted Kennedy included), continue to adhere to Blame The Teachers First (BTTF). Added to this is the destructive program called Let Administrators Run Roughshod Over Teachers (LARROT). Educational Rot. This educational stench is so strong to every fair-minded and intelligent nostril. But, the masses will continue to eat the slop until someone points out that this slop is really for educational swine. RTTT? Race To The Top? No, Race To The Trough. Teachers “teach” the students, not “learn” the students. Physicians “treat” the patients, not “heal” the patients. Lawyers “defend” the accused, not “acquit” the accused.
Until our politicians and policymakers start holding the students and their parents responsible for the learning facet of the educational equation, then improving education is like spitting into a tsunami. Other countries and cultures understand this simple concept, but in our “wisdom,” we have become educational “fools.” (c) MACE, August 27, 2010.
Private School Guy
August 29th, 2010
5:42 pm
Administrators need to be judged and paid in relation to school success more than teachers. Principals need to be demoted or fired based on poor results. But results should be based on far more than test scores. Sadly most public schools administrators would not have a clue on how to really evaluate teacher performance. They need to have a real understanding of what is going on in each and every classroom, they need to look at and be able to understand data and be able to make qualified decisions about the teaching staff. From my personal experience most administrators would not be able to begin to draw qualified conclusions regarding the performance of their staffs.
All educators need to keep in mind that the real results of a quality education can not be known until the student becomes an adult.
Real Reformer
August 29th, 2010
5:42 pm
@ Hmmmm, your comment ” until we get fair minded administrators, I really don’t want to be arbitrarily judged by someone who may have a vendetta against me!” my mother was a teacher, and I heard this argument for years. I was a teacher for some years, and have worked in the private sector and for a nonprofit. I’ve never understood why teachers think they are the only ones who might have to work for a poor administrator, “who would have a vendetta” against them. Any time you have a manager/supervisor/boss out there in the private sector, you have to figure out how to get along. I don’t know why this argument is always advanced by teachers.
Please understand, I believe teachers need more support, higher pay, more cooperation from students and parents, and they should not be evaluated solely by test scores. At my son’s high school, everyone knows who the good teachers are, and we don’t have to look at test scores to know it. But we are all evaluated by our superiors in the workplace.
Mikey D
August 29th, 2010
5:49 pm
@Real Reformer…
So, teachers should be subjected to poor administrators simply because others in the private sector also are? Turn about is fair play? Just because it happens in one place doesn’t mean it automatically has to happen everywhere.
Echo
August 29th, 2010
5:54 pm
In the private sector, management has very good reasons to keep the most productive members of their team “happy”. A manager is only as good as the team they manage, if productivity declines, the manager is on the hook. In schools there is no reason for a principal to keep good or productive teachers “happy”. Teachers are replaced at a much faster rate than the typical private sector employee. In the private sector experience is typically prized and companies will pay top dollar for top producers. This same model doesn’t exist in public education. There is no valid way to determine “top producers” in education, the pay scale also restricts the pay. Many schools see new teachers as cheap labor, you can fill 2 positions with 0 years experience & a B.S. for the same cost as one Ph.D. with 25 years in.
Hey Teacher
August 29th, 2010
5:54 pm
Atlanta Mom — the problem with administrative positions is that you don’t have to be a good teacher FIRST to become an administrator. There are many exceptions to that rule, but they are few and far between. I worked for an AP who had only 2 years of experience in a gifted classroom — no regular ed experience whatsoever. That is like the equivalent of a doctor only doing 1/3 of a residency, missing the surgical rotation, and then being asked to supervise the operating room. For every good admin, I’ve worked for 3 more that were totally clueless — and I’ve worked in 4 different counties over a 20 plus-year career.
Public Teacher
August 29th, 2010
6:06 pm
When will people understand that the ‘teacher quality’ component of a child’s education is very small. However, the politicans continue to spend time and our tax dollars on this to ride the public opinion and get votes.
There is no real research at all that connects student performance on any standardized test to teacher quality. Until that connection is made, this is all just pi$$ing in the wind.
Tony
August 29th, 2010
6:07 pm
The report is a good one based on sound interpretation of research that is readily available. Unfortunately, our politicians do not want sound research nor do they want to back down from the testing agenda. The current federal DOE is insisting on developing “even better assessments” to use for teachers’ evaluations. In our state, the leaders are still trying to “better define the teacher of record” in order to isolate variables related to determining teacher effectiveness. In other words, it doesn’t matter how unreliable test results are in evaluating teacher effectiveness, we are going to do it anyway. Now with Race to the Top in place, Georgia will be required to do so. Maybe there’s hope for sanity to prevail.
Laurie
August 29th, 2010
6:17 pm
I have never liked stansardized tests, and sent my child to alternative private schooling until her 3rd grade year because of it. Evaluating teachers based on student performance is a difficult thing, considering all the variables at play. I think a 360 degree style assessment would be good, getting feedback from students, parents, co-workers, and administration regarding a teacher’s abilities.
Fericita
August 29th, 2010
6:17 pm
Like ScienceTeacher671 said, the Class Keys assessment is very thorough, but it is unlikely that administrators truly have time to be in a class enough to be as thorough as the evaluation demands. For example, the assessment section asks for evaluation of the teacher’s use of formative, summative, and diagnostic assessments. If an administrator is evaluating me for 45 minutes (and usually it is more like 20), they certainly won’t see all 3. That doesn’t mean I don’t know how to use all 3 correctly, but that they aren’t observed in the time frame of my evaluation.
I think the key to keeping good teachers and weeding out bad ones is to have qualified observers in classrooms making fair judgments for longer than just 20 minutes. Perhaps, like William Casey said, we should have retired teachers do it. I can understand that administrators don’t have time to be in my room unless there is a problem. But I want feedback!
I’m thankful that I haven’t had problems with administration, but I have heard some horror stories. I know a math teacher whose evaluator wrote down that he was teaching the “Aquatic Equation,” and had some misguided suggestions on how the teacher could do it better. Really? If the evaluator didn’t even understand the name of the concept (the quadratic formula) how likely is it that he could critique how it was being taught?
#atlanta mom
August 29th, 2010
6:20 pm
but what I can’t understand – instead of lamenting how bad your high school teachers are, why aren’t you moving to a different district with stronger high schools?
Echo
August 29th, 2010
6:22 pm
“Aquatic Equation” …now THAT is funny.
J.B. STONER
August 29th, 2010
6:47 pm
I’ll tell you why teachers fail. Look at the students of today. Pant’s on the ground, smoking dope ,carrying guns, robbing people.
Give em something to teach.
Grammar
August 29th, 2010
7:00 pm
LOVE “aquatic equation” – Must be a relative of one of our administrators. This lady is the SFA (reading) coach and comes out with all kinds of gems – Like when we had to read outloud from a handout during a faculty meeting: “savior the cheese.” She was talking about Who Moved My Cheese – I know it sounds like typ-o but it isn’t. This woman also says things like “we seen them coming.”
I work for APS. This person has a job coaching teachers – for teaching READING. She can’t even speak, not English anyway.
teacher&mom
August 29th, 2010
7:04 pm
My current principal has never observed me. I’ve been teaching in this school for FIVE years. He has delegated that responsibility to our AP. He really has no clue as to what goes on behind closed doors. He just assumes that because we have good test scores, everyone is doing a super job. The AP always observes and to his credit, he does try to offer a fair evaluation. However, every time he has sat down in my room to observe, someone is paging him to come to the office. I think the longest he ever sat in my room was 10 minutes. He wears too many hats at our school and is spread way too thin to adequately observe teachers.
I like William Casey’s suggestion about using retired teachers for teacher observations. I would also recommend that current teachers be included in the group. One of the best ways to hone your skills as a teacher is to observe other teachers.
Lee
August 29th, 2010
7:05 pm
It’s called PERFORMANCE MANAGEMENT folks. Done correctly, you recognize the high performers, provide needed feedback / tools / training to the below average to average performers, and the low performers, you make a decision whether or not they need a helping hand to improve — or a helping hand out the door.
Performance Management is not easy. It takes more than just two or three fifteen minute evaluations during the course of the year. Actually, a good manager has an almost continuous feedback loop – they don’t wait until mid-year or end-of-year evaluations to give feedback.
Finally, the biggest failure I see is the manager who doesn’t deal with the poor performer.
This trend in education to rate teachers is merely a ploy by weak administrators who do not want to make the hard decisions required by effective Performance Management. They are looking for the magic bullet that takes the decision making out of their hands.
Sound familiar? That same weak administrator also hides behind the school handbook as though it were a Roman Gladiator shield. They absolutely abhor having to make a decision.
teacher&mom
August 29th, 2010
7:08 pm
There are so many problems with how GA plans implement teacher pay-for performance. Here’s a short list:
• Teachers are never given significant feedback from CRCT and EOCT scores. Released test questions IS NOT MEANINGFUL feedback. If you plan to tie teacher pay to test scores, an item-by-item analysis should be provided.
• If you want teacher buy-in to this process, you are going to have to figure out a meaningful way to allow more teachers to sit at the table. Sending out a nebulous survey or posting an item on the DOE web site asking for input is not effective. Georgia teachers feel shut out of this entire process.
• The elimination of the NBCT stipend will haunt this state for many years. Teachers found out that contracts weren’t worth the paper they were written on. The state will have a hard time earning back that trust.
• 50% for test scores is too much.
• The Class Keys does a good job of defining what makes a good teacher. Short, classroom observations will not identify all the keys. So, how does a teacher “prove” s/he implements strong formative assessments, HOTS, etc? Right now, it looks like the teacher will submit a portfolio (paperwork) for someone to evaluate. If a teacher is deemed “proficient” or “exemplary” do we really need him or her to submit a mammoth document every year? Will that lead to more burnout? How many times does an effective teacher need to prove their worth?
Sped Red
August 29th, 2010
7:12 pm
I don’t see any consideration for parental involvement. This should be weighted in some manner.
HStchr
August 29th, 2010
7:19 pm
“Aquatic Equation”– ROFL! Just like I witnessed in the private sector, you don’t have to be the best to get to be in charge. Here’s a joke for all:
A man’s body was debating one day about which part should really be in charge. Of course, the brain assumed that since he managed and monitored all nervous system activity that he was the only one qualified. The arms argued that since they carried everything and delivered food to keep the body alive, they should be in charge. The legs spoke up and demanded their respect for being the ones to carry all the weight around, so they should be in charge. Finally, after much debate, the a$$hole spoke up and said he should be in charge. Well, of course, the body just fell into a fit of laughter. I mean, really, who could accept such a ridiculous orifice being in charge?!!
Well, the hole got mad and plugged up tight. Needless to say, after a few days the legs were wobbly, the arms just hung there, and the brain was completely fuzzy and unable to handle the simplest management tasks. The body wasn’t laughing anymore.
The moral of the story: you don’t have to be management trained, strong, or talented to be the boss…
Ready?
You know it already, don’t you?
You just have to be an a$$hole!
Paulo977
August 29th, 2010
7:25 pm
#Atlanta Mom…or move to another state
Atlanta mom
August 29th, 2010
7:30 pm
@#atlanta mom
It’s a good question, why did we stay in the city schools? My husband and I believe that there’s more to education than academics. They learned many valuable life lessons, and understand about people who come from less fortunate circumstances.
Additionally, we supplement with summer programs. But mostly, I find it hard to believe that all/most/85% of teachers are good to excellent. Perhaps if we’d gone to a different school I would have a different perspective.
@ Atlanta mom
August 29th, 2010
7:49 pm
“But mostly, I find it hard to believe that all/most/85% of teachers are good to excellent. Perhaps if we’d gone to a different school I would have a different perspective.”
Yup. You most likely would have..
Maureen Downey
August 29th, 2010
7:50 pm
@thankateacher, Nothing in the filter today. I saw at least one comment from you. Are you missing another? Maureen
MrNumbersMan
August 29th, 2010
7:53 pm
Dr. Trotter – We run in common circles. I know your dad, sister, and nephew. Small world.
I survived TPAI, the TCT, and later the Praxis for administration. None of this made me a better teacher. Now, as one who has to observe teachers and attempt to make them better this is a really tall task. Management theory tells us we can only effectively supervise 10-12 employees at one time. Many schools there are 100+ teachers with only 4 or 5 administrators. Now, not all of these teachers need intensive development but they all need supervision and regular development.
To make this even more difficult there are the added responsibilities of school improvement plans, various meetings, discipline situations, parent conferences, etc. And then administrators are supposed to be the lead educators in the building. Many of them I speak to are just happy if they can “Keep it between the lines” to borrow their expression.
Now, ClassKeys is going to require even more of administrators for something they don’t have time to do. Brilliant!
J.B. STONER
August 29th, 2010
8:12 pm
and I wonder what ‘Proud black man thinks..
J.B. STONER
August 29th, 2010
8:24 pm
And to Glenn B eck, thanks for yesterday, god bless you.
nter your comments here
Dr. John Trotter
August 29th, 2010
9:29 pm
MrNumbersMan: You must hail from the Columbus area, right? My parents are still kickin’ at 85. Daddy still tells some funny school stories. Of course, Bo is a riot in and of himself! Patti retired as a First Grade teacher a couple or three years ago, and her kids loved her because she had such a sense of humor with them. Two quick stories…
When Patti was a young teacher, she was faced with the burden of telling a parent that her child just needed to be held back another year in First Grade. The kid just wasn’t picking up on anything, as much as Patti worked with him. Well, it was in the Fall, and Patti had arranged for a conference witht the mother and the principal. After sweetly and gently talking with the mother and giving her rationale why it would be better for the child to repeat the First Grade, Patti gingerly asked the mother if she has any questions. Patti braced herself. The mother asked: “Yes, when is the Halloween Party?”
Daddy tells this story about one of the coaches back in the 1950s at Jordan High (where my father was an assistant principal at the time). This coach was a gem of a coach (especially baseball) but was not known for his academic prowess in the classroom. But, he was no-nonsense when it came to discipline. There was also a sweet, petite lady who taught Chemistry but the kids ran all over her. She was just terrible as far as discipline was concerned. She just didn’t have that commanding presence which scared the students. She was a walk-over, but she knew her Chemistry. My father called the coach in (in fact, I saw this coach at a banquet the other day in Columbus; I think that he is 85 like my father). He said: “Coach, I want you and Miss __________ to Team Teach the Chemistry class. You just sit there with your paddle, and the moment any of the students try to give Miss ___________ any trouble at all, you just pull them out into the hall and paddle them.” The Team Teaching plan worked marvelously! The students gave Miss ____________ no trouble, and she was able to teach. You just have to be creative…something that they don’t want to let you be anymore.
MrNumbersMan, they tie up your hands and don’t let you be effective, but they do want the paperwork done so that they can show their bosses how hard they are working. The paperwork justifies their jobs.
Good to hear from you!
thankateacher
August 29th, 2010
10:26 pm
Echo….
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE tell MACE to come to Douglas County. There are many teachers literally sick to their stomachs when they heard what Central Office wanted to do with teacher evaluations and how to tie it into GTEP.
As I have said before, they want to tie COACH post test scores into teacher evaluations. Teachers have been told that 80% of their classes have to make 75% or higher on the COACH post test. They are also looking into Class Keys and how to tie that into teacher evaluations. Teachers that do not “perform” will be put on a PDP automatically.
To make a long story short, if you have an administrator that does not like you, he or she will find a way to make your evaluation look like crap. We need to fight this!!!
Dr. John Trotter
August 29th, 2010
10:34 pm
Thankateacher: You guys just need to call the MACE Office and talk to one of our Representatives. MACE protects and empowers classroom educators…one member at a time. MACE never claims to change the whole culture of a school or a school system. MACE protects and empowers its members.
Anonymous Teacher
August 30th, 2010
8:16 am
There are some awesome administrators out there. Unfortunately, they are often used up, over worked, or run off by the incompetant ones.
My school had the most awesome AP for the past 6 years. Notice the use of the word “had.” This person cared about the students, the teachers, and the community. He worked with the “hard to love” students who had discipline problems and assigned them adult mentors to help them get straightened out. He rarely missed school and was constantly preoccupied with the safety of our students. He was run off by a narcisstic principal who had had numerous complaints lodged against him to the Professional Standards Commission for speaking out when the principal was insisting that some questionable things be done.
A building principal is an absolute dictator. They set the tone for how things go in the school. If you have one who constantly threatens and berates the entire faculty because one or two are not doing what they should be doing, then it creates resentment among all. If you have one who conducts meetings that go on for hours while other schools in the same district (who have the same information to cover) get out in a third of the time, then it creates resentment because it is clear the administrator is on a power trip instead of focusing on teacher’s preparing for students.
And who can teachers complain to? They can complain to their spouse or they can complain anonymously online to a blog. That’s it. Because if they speak up in any other way, they become the next target to lose their job.
Mac
August 30th, 2010
11:12 am
This is what I have been worried about with VAM all along (we started using a variation of it a few years back to look at teacher growth) – the main variable that that is not taken into account is year to year make up and dynamics of the classroom due to the student mix and maturity levels. This changes each year dramatically and is even in flux during the course of the year in each classroom (talking elementary here primarily). Every other administrator or education data guru I mentioned this to just poo-pooed it and repeated the ‘it’s a better measure, times are changing’ mantra. All for change, just not for it’s own sake and only if it is good for kids. I don’t see that here.
Ole Guy
August 30th, 2010
4:39 pm
And it took a team of high-powered, high-speed researchers to arrive at this simple conclusion…AMAZING, SIMPLY FRIQIN AMAZING!
Here it is..........
August 30th, 2010
5:08 pm
http://empoweredga.org/Articles/whatrtttmeans.html
Nikole
August 30th, 2010
7:21 pm
Thanks for the link to the paper. I will use it in a graduate course this semester.
National debate is under way: What is the fairest way to measure a teacher’s classroom performance? » iThinkEducation.net!
September 1st, 2010
3:33 pm
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