Why was HOPE created in the first place? Let’s see what Zell Miller said at the start
There is a lot debate on this blog as to why Gov. Zell Miller started the lottery and HOPE. I thought it might be helpful to go back to the source. Here is an op-ed that Miller wrote urging Georgians to approve a lottery:
October 20, 1992
Edition: The Atlanta Constitution
Page: A/18
By Gov. Zell Miller: Why Georgia needs a lottery
People ought to vote for the lottery for education for the following reasons:
The law requires that lottery proceeds will be spent only on the new education programs outlined below. OCGA Section 50-27-2 says that “net proceeds shall be used to supplement, not supplant, existing resources for educational purposes and programs.”
The lottery will directly help families who are struggling with the high cost of tuition. The HOPE program (Helping Outstanding Pupils Educationally) will provide each B or better student with two years of free tuition to state colleges if his or her family’s income is below $66,000. Vo-tech school tuition will be free regardless of grade-point average.
The lottery will improve the classrooms in which our kids work. It will pay for computers and science equipment in schools that otherwise could not afford them.
The lottery will set up a voluntary, statewide pre-kindergarten program that will ensure that children entering kindergarten are prepared to learn.
The state lottery should be established. Without it, hundreds of millions of dollars that could improve the education of Georgia’s children will continue to go to states like Florida that do have lotteries.
Passing the lottery won’t solve all Georgia’s education problems. It will help families pay for college tuition, get their kids ready to start school and make sure they have modern classrooms and equipment.
Zell Miller, governor of Georgia, has advocated a lottery for education since his days as lieutenant governor under Gov. Joe Frank Harris. The lottery was one of his campaign proposals when he was elected governor in 1990.
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44 comments Add your comment
bootney farnsworth
August 3rd, 2010
12:06 pm
nowhere did Zell mention a income limit. he said families struggling with the high cost of education. that is just about everybody.
there is no way in 1992 he could have forseen the internet/computer
explosion and how it would fundamentally alter the way education works
forever. the cost of higher ed and what drives it is mindboggling for
those of us who see it firsthand every day.
those fools downtown still think education is a chalkboard and a bucket of green paint.
Zell had two failings with HOPE. he should have made it unconstituional for any funds to go anywhere except education, and he should have anticipated the effect grade inflation would have.
bootney farnsworth
August 3rd, 2010
12:07 pm
filtered already?
EnoughAlready
August 3rd, 2010
12:12 pm
It was passed on those standards and we should go back to them.
bootney farnsworth
August 3rd, 2010
12:15 pm
my bad. Zell did put a income cap on it.
An advocate for public education change & choice
August 3rd, 2010
12:17 pm
This statement “Vo-tech school tuition will be free regardless of grade-point average” is quite interesting. For all the talk about HOPE this aspect is rarely if ever discussed.
bootney farnsworth
August 3rd, 2010
12:23 pm
the primary problem is and remains the whole concept of grade inflation and so many PSs tying themselves to their kids going to college – regardless of if they should be there or not.
bootney farnsworth
August 3rd, 2010
12:26 pm
even back in the day Georgia faced a shortage of skilled vo tech workers
and tradesmen. its only gotten worse since.
bootney farnsworth
August 3rd, 2010
12:28 pm
besides objecting to the idea of HOPE becoming yet another democrat social program / entitlement scheme, $66,000 20 years ago went on hell of a lot farther than it does today.
bootney farnsworth
August 3rd, 2010
12:45 pm
good to know the legislature will get back together in November to deal with HOPE.
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August 3rd, 2010
1:36 pm
[...] Why was HOPE created in the first place? Let's see what Zell Miller said at …Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)Zell Miller started the lottery and HOPE. I thought it might be helpful to go back to the source. Here is an op-ed that Miller wrote urging Georgians to …Ga. HOPE, prekindergarten programs face cuts as lottery revenue falls behind …CanadianBusiness.comHOPE`s Future? What will Shortfalls BringCoosa Valley NewsGA lawmakers to discuss lottery-funded programsWTVMWXIA-TV -Atlanta Business Chronicle -WALB-TVall 45 news articles » Share/Bookmark [...]
Teacher Reader
August 3rd, 2010
1:36 pm
I think that students should not be given HOPE until they have earned the 3.0 in college. We are throwing away money when we give HOPE to kids who have not earned the required gpa in college to keep HOPE. Making the kids work for the money in the first place would cut down on the expenses.
I think that all kids should be able to earn HOPE regardless of their parents’ income. First a parent’s income has nothing to do with how hard a child worked to earn his/her grades. A parent’s income is not that of a child’s. I don’t think that any parent has to help their children out with college, whether they can afford to or not.
The legislature must remember that we give people money and other things, it is not as appreciated, as when they have worked for those things for themselves. Make the kids work for the money before it is given. Give less money. Don’t pay for fees or for books. Have grade requirements or some kind of requirements for votec, so that it’s not seen as a cash cow by votec schools.
Have the free pre-K attached to income and verify what a parent writes down. Having HOPE attached to income limits, is discrimination against hard working children. All types of people play the lottery, so everyone who meets the eligibility requirements for HOPE should be able to use it.
Frank
August 3rd, 2010
1:40 pm
where are all the people who claim it was for pre-K? I said i was there and knew what the purpose was…
That being said, I believe an income cap of 100K should be the next step for HOPE if current reductions fail to balance the rate of income versus expenditures. Over 100K can receive a prorated portion if funds are available…
Dee
August 3rd, 2010
1:58 pm
I like the idea of making HOPE reimbursement instead of being paid up front. We should face facts, folks…college is not for everyone. The idea that every child in Georgia should be gearing up to attend college is crazy. It has led us to the point where you see help wanted ads for receptionists with a college degree requirement — really? Many kids would be better served getting into something at the ground floor, or doing vocational tech, or interning, or joining the military or police/fire services, but instead we push them all to try for four-year degrees a large number of which are completely worthless. What we wind up with are adults who either have a degree in some field they will never work in, or no degree at all and 2 or 3 years of wasted life where they weren’t earning anything and quite likely were incurring debt. Make it reimbursement based on attaining the degree and maintaining a decent GPA and a lot of people who don’t really want to go to college simply won’t.
And no income cap, unless the idea is to focus on the income of the student. College students are 18+ years old. They are ADULTS. I would like to go back in time and erase whatever day it was that somebody decided that parents should be responsible for the college education of their ADULT children. Should parents buy their ADULT child’s first home as well? When does it end? My parents did not pay for my education, yet their income was utilized to calculate that I was not eligible for any grants or financial aid other than student loans (which I promptly paid back after graduation). I am able to set aside money for my chld’s education where my parents were not. I know that my income will be used to deny my son financial assistance for college, and as a result I am saving to be able to REIMBURSE him for his college expenses if he gets a useful degree and grades at the level I deem acceptable — if he does something else, I go on a nice long expensive vacation with that money. It is my duty to feed, clothe, house and secure an education for him through high school — after that, he makes his own choices and I may, if I choose, reward the good choices.
jj
August 3rd, 2010
2:34 pm
I am personally aware of many non residents who continue to receive the HOPE scholarschip. When parents move away the kids give some bogus address, and the money keeps flowing.
If there was any oversight on this program I suspect there would be plenty of funds.
Maureen Downey
August 3rd, 2010
2:36 pm
@JJ, My understanding is that students on HOPE whose parents leave Georgia are still eligible so there is no need to give a bogus address.
catlady
August 3rd, 2010
3:11 pm
The vo-tech option has always been like that.
Bootney, he should also have given the colleges some heads up–even consulted them–as they were left to implement it with no additional money for personnel to do it.
I think I have some of the original brochures. I will check them (when I get a chance) to see some of the wording on them. I did some research on HOPe and its effects 1995-97. If I can find them, maybe I can send you a copy, Ms. Downey.
How did the first day of school go?
Dee, the federal government does not consider students independent (for the purposes of FAFSA) until they are 24, I believe, unless they have dependents themselves.
An advocate for public education change & choice
August 3rd, 2010
3:18 pm
How about this adjust the original $66K income cap for inflation and re-institute it. Nobody seemed up in arms about having lottery proceeds go for this purpose until the State got all giddy and removed the cap after the law’s original passage. Once the flood gates opened the shortfall was inevitable.
If the program was meant to supplement educational funding, then it would appear to me that it was reconized from the jump that it would not serve all of the needs of any group.
BTW, what happened to the portion devoted to increasing the technology available within the classroom. Did this peice of the puzzle ever actually happen.
Dee
August 3rd, 2010
3:46 pm
@catlady “Dee, the federal government does not consider students independent (for the purposes of FAFSA) until they are 24, I believe, unless they have dependents themselves.”
I know, and it stinks. I was married when I went off to grad school…and my parents’ income was counted for financial aid purposes. I was married.
catlady
August 3rd, 2010
3:49 pm
An advocate: yes, for awhile. We got these cool metal “tulips” sprouted in every schoolyard. We had classrooms wired to use them. Then, we found out there was more to it than that: upkeep, people trained in their use, etc. End of program, because we “didn’t use it.” Too bad, like the rest of the Lottery proceeds, no one asked what was needed and what would the effects be FIRST. But SOMEONE made a killing for awhile selling those dishes!
catlady
August 3rd, 2010
3:56 pm
Dee: Shouldn’t have counted. You should have been able to fill out ONLY the your and your husband part. In fact, it tells you to skip certain numbers of questions if you answered yes to ANY of the following: born before x, dependents, or completed a bachelor’s degree. You should have answered yes to two of them. This has been on the FAFSA since at least 1988. (I have had to fill it out for children or myself every year since then.)
shari
August 3rd, 2010
4:04 pm
please keep the Hope Scholarship available for college students in Georgia. They have to study hard to maintain a B average, and they get a good education, and can compete for a good job. we need educated people in Georgia!
high school teacher
August 3rd, 2010
4:15 pm
What is the 2010 equivalent of $66,000 in 1992? Anyone have any idea?
Hmmm....
August 3rd, 2010
4:22 pm
How would you adjust for inflation in today’s money? My husband and I make ” a lot” of money, “cough, cough”. However, we would be much more strapped without HOPE and what it did/has done for our kids. I don’t deny there is grade inflation; however, my kids took gifted and AP classes in high school and kept/have kept HOPE their entire college careers. They had high SAT scores and decent GPAs. They would not have been admitted to Tech or UGA without those! They would not have been able to keep the grades if they did not have the brains or determination to work hard for their grades!
Also, I thought this was a plan to keep Georgia’s brightest and best. Of course, my son, who graduated with honors from Tech in December is still looking for a job, so GA may not be able to keep him around if there are no jobs.
I am just glad that my daughter is a senior this year and will graduate before this whole ball of wax melts.
Lee
August 3rd, 2010
4:26 pm
@High School, adjusted for inflation, $102,635
Handy inflation calculator from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
redweather
August 3rd, 2010
4:30 pm
So when did the income cap fall by the wayside?
HStchr
August 3rd, 2010
4:35 pm
Hope did provide some computers for my school, but then upkeep and upgrading was on us, so not much happened. Since that initial input- nothing more. I think the problem is Hope has been made accessible to too many. There has to be an income cap, sensibly say between the level to qualify for full federal financial aid and whatever falls about 100k above that. That would probably balance the sheets. If there’s money left in good years, then open up academic award scholarships through state colleges to high-achieving students between the top Hope qualifying amount and say 200k.
Dee
August 3rd, 2010
4:37 pm
@catlady – the school specifically asked for my parents’ income. Cannot recall if it was on FAFSA too…but the school counted it. I just don’t think they should count parents income for adults. No biggie, I managed.
flipper
August 3rd, 2010
4:52 pm
Don’t y’all get it? A lot of talented professionals and executives remain in Georgia because of HOPE. All these people make well over 100K – ourselves included. Many of these people work remotely or run small businesses… it is no big deal at all to move in this day and age for most high wage earners.
The minute HOPE is gone, there is no reason whatsoever for us to stay here. We may as well move to VA or NC where the state universities are much more highly regarded… as is the K-12 education system. In fact, cap HOPE and I can guarantee we will move … this year before my 7th grader gets sucked into Math 1 2 3 and can not transfer.
Georgia will lose tons of the people who actually pay most of the taxes and create most of the jobs. You will be left with a state of citizens where the vast majority do not have the talent, education and/or drive to earn above 100K. The university system will lose their kids too.
But hey, go for it…. we’ve been looking for a good excuse to blow out of here for years.
Angela
August 3rd, 2010
5:10 pm
The funding for technology in the classrooms stopped in 2003. Also, in the early years lottery funds were used to put computers in the public libraries.
AJinCobb
August 3rd, 2010
5:16 pm
flipper makes a pretty good point.
Economicwoes
August 3rd, 2010
6:34 pm
I thought GCPS received money to build schools in the early years. My memory is hazy on the subject. Maybe it was just the tech. money Alvin used to hire in the wives and girlfriends. When is he going to retire, Georgia should not have to do it his way.
catlady
August 3rd, 2010
6:44 pm
Dee–you must be a grad student at a private college. You say the school asked for it, so it was not based on the FAFSA. They have more flexibility in what they do/require, at least at the undergrad level. I haven’t been a grad student at a private college, nor have my children.
decaturparent
August 3rd, 2010
8:10 pm
You know. I am loathe to ever agree with flipper, but I think he has a point. I can’t honestly say we would stay here if the HOPE scholarship went away. We would seriously look at moving to another state with better regarded universities and a better lifestyle than heavily polluted, traffic congested Atlanta. Our plan was to use HOPE for college and then have some money (hopefully) to help with grad school. If our plan is blown to smithereens, anything goes at that point.
We both work from home mostly so we can really live anywhere as long a reasonably decent airport is nearby. Virginia is wonderful – so is NC. Mass. is a bit cold, but schools are top notch. The northwest is beautiful, and most large cities there value mass transit, air quality, etc.
I don’t consider HOPE an entitlement and don’t feel that it is owed to me. If they have to put an income cap on it, then so be it. However, we get to make our decisions too and we will quite possibly choose to move b/c it no longer makes a difference financially. We have three kids so it’s a big hit to just take it away with little notice.
Nice folks where I live, but really ….Why stay here?
My husband employs 10 people. They will all be out of jobs at that point, and folks in the state we move to will most likely get those jobs That’s no much… but it adds up. I’m sure virtually no one cares if we move.. .but what if 1000 people like us move… what if it’s 10,000… what if it’s 100,000?
What if some people are no longer attracted to working in Georgia?
Kids who work hard should not be penalized because of the family that they happened to be born into. Most families, including ours, have made college savings plans based on the belief that HOPE would be managed in a manner that would continue its livelihood. Boy were we naive.
I say reduce HOPE by the amount a kid gets in Pell Grants… these kids are getting the money they need anyway.. let’s rely on the feds to provide what they will. Then, do not provide HOPE at the beginning of freshman year. Require a year of college level work at a 3.0 to get the scholarship. That will get kids who are just there to party off the books.
bootney farnsworth
August 3rd, 2010
8:55 pm
@ catlady,
if only. but we (BOR) are used to having the state
force unfunded mandates on us.
and having the state both blame us for economic
issues then try to balance the budget on our backs/wallets
I give Zell credit for the idea and the intent, really do.
but HOPE has become a classic case of good intentions and
the road to hell.
Ernest
August 3rd, 2010
10:46 pm
Great posts by flipper and decaturparent! How would this impact the workforce and talent pool if HOPE was not available for all eligible students, regardless of family income?
Why was HOPE created in the first place? Let's see what Zell … | Georgia
August 4th, 2010
9:17 am
[...] Why was HOPE created in the first place? Let's see what Zell … [...]
AJinCobb
August 4th, 2010
9:39 am
I already praised flipper’s post, but decaturparent expands on it so well.
We’re here because of a job transfer from the Northwest, but in the years we’ve been here, both adults’ jobs have been transitioning to more and more working-from-home. At this point, we could probably get away with moving out of state while staying in our current jobs, especially as one of us is now self-employed. We’re not all that fond of the South, but we’ve been happy with Cobb County schools and, like decaturparent, we’ve been factoring HOPE into our college savings plans. I don’t think of it as an entitlement either, but it seemed only logical to include this feature of the state environment in our budget.
We’ve been figuring on staying here and sending the kids (excellent students) to GT/UGA; likely eventually retiring to the Northwest. But if there’s not going to be any HOPE scholarship, it would be only logical to give serious consideration to making a move to a state where we’d prefer the lifestyle, much much sooner. That would stop the kids from ending up in GA, which would be all to the good from our point of view. Maybe not so good for GA, though, especially if there are a lot of families like ours around town. I think there might be quite a few of us.
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Oh Well
August 4th, 2010
10:24 am
We’ve got a rising 7th grader…and I am with flipper & decaturparent to a point.
I don’t make $100K, neither does my husband. I was laid off from a good paying job and have been seeking something permanent in the meantime. We didn’t consider HOPE because we didn’t really understand the program.
From my vantage point, HOPE has helped a great many people. I think that’s great. However, my concern is that while my children are in gifted programs, etc. – we happen to live in an area that doesn’t have the top notch schools as say, another area. So – we supplement with enrichment programs and other activities that they don’t readily get.
If there is a HOPE overhaul – I think that all prospects should be on the table..be it an income cap that makes sense combined with academic achievement & a one year waiting period. I have made it clear to my children that we will not pay for college…we may “help out”. Heck, unless there is a big economic turnaround – we won’t be able to! And besides, college is something they have to want – I can’t “want it” for them.
We’ve considered leaving because we’ve never seen such gross inequality in education until moving here. Legislators, school board members, and superintendents readily “write a whole area/group of people off” and bend to the whim of special interests when it comes to education.
When all of the “brains” are gone…what will you be left with?
I truly weep for the future of this State.
Forsyth County mom
August 4th, 2010
10:26 am
I’d like to know why the funds for both HOPE and Pre-K are dwindling, when we hear year-after-year how many sales records the lottery is breaking. And the bonuses handed to the lottery director and staff? If things are soooo bad with HOPE, why not increase the percentage of lottery money going toward it, and decrease those ridiculous bonuses and salaries? I bet that would help solve some problems!
Chris
August 4th, 2010
6:22 pm
I calculated that 66,000 in 1992 would be 100,914 adjusted for inflation as of the end of 2009. BUT, should the 66,000 number be adjusted for normal inflation or the rising cost of tuition. Basing it on tuition increases would make it well over 250,000. However, as I posted on the same subject on another article Monday, implementing than income limit of 100,000 will not be enough to account for the shortage of funds. Almost 30,000 students would have to be cut to close the $243 million gap assuming the average payout is $8,300 per year. I seriously doubt that half that many students exist who qualify for HOPE and have parents who make 100k or more.
Dee
August 5th, 2010
2:38 pm
@catlady – No, I was a grad student at a state school. They included my parents’ income, period. It was in the forms. Don’t recall if they were FAFSA or school-specific, but I do know that I was required to disclose it because I had to call my parents and ask for it…and they were very curious at the time why.
Gail
August 6th, 2010
12:19 am
A problem with Zell Miller’s initial HOPE plan is that the income level set does not appear to take into account family size. A three person household at $66K is not any needier than a six person household making $70K, but it seems that a child in the household making $70k would not have been eligible back in 1992.
Moose
August 6th, 2010
2:21 pm
As the parent of a college freshman starting at UGA, I am very frustrated by the salary cap being discussed in regards to Hope eligibility. In going through the whole financial aid process with 8 different schools, it became appyarent that if you are a high achieving student in a low income household, you can go to college anywhere you want with no loans and most costs covered if not all. It is those households making over $80,000 that only qualify for loans and the occasional small grant. My point is that low income families are already covered by many sources for their college costs if the student qualifies for admission into the school.
I agree that UGA and Tech will lose many of its best candidates because without Hope, the lower cost incentive will be substantially diminished and other more highly ranked schools will get the best and brightest students. My son had some very good options, but chose UGA heavily based on the substantial cost differential. It is another example of HOPE helping to keep some of our best students in GA state colleges which helps raise the ranking and quality of the schools.
If HOPE has to be cut as a last resourse, then it should lower how much is subsidized, not cut out any income bracket.