President Obama’s education speech today: Status quo is “morally inexcusable… economically indefensible.”
President Obama said we can longer accept the status quo in education
In a speech today at the National Urban League Centennial Conference, President Obama described education as “the economic issue of our time.”
Here is part of the speech. (Please read the entire speech, if you can):
It’s an economic issue when the unemployment rate for folks who’ve never gone to college is almost double what it is for those who have gone to college. It’s an economic issue when eight in 10 new jobs will require workforce training or a higher education by the end of this decade. It’s an economic issue when countries that out-educate us today are going to out-compete us tomorrow.
Now, for years, we’ve recognized that education is a prerequisite for prosperity. And yet, we’ve tolerated a status quo where America lags behind other nations. Just last week, we learned that in a single generation, America went from number one to 12th in college completion rates for young adults. Used to be number one, now we’re number 12.
At the same time, our 8th graders trail about eight — 10 other nations — 10 other nations in science and math. Meanwhile, when it comes to black students, African American students trail not only almost every other developed nation abroad, but they badly trail their white classmates here at home — an achievement gap that is widening the income gap between black and white, between rich and poor.
We’ve talked about it, we know about it, but we haven’t done enough about it. And this status quo is morally inexcusable, it s economically indefensible, and all of us are going to have to roll up our sleeves to change it.
I also want to directly speak to the issue of teachers. We may have some teachers here in the house. I know Urban League has got some teachers. Nothing is more important than teachers. The whole premise of Race to the Top is that teachers are the si
ngle most important factor in a child’s education from the moment they step into the classroom. And I know firsthand that the vast majority of teachers are working tirelessly, are passionate about their students, are often digging into their own pockets for basic supplies, are going above and beyond the call of duty.
So I want teachers to have higher salaries. I want them to have more support. I want them to be trained like the professionals they are –- with rigorous residencies like the ones that doctors go through. I want to give them a career ladder so they’ve opportunities to advance, and earn real financial security. I don’t want talented young people to say I’d love to teach but I can’t afford it.
I want them to have a fulfilling and supportive workplace environment. I want them to have the resources — from basic supplies to reasonable class sizes — that help them succeed. And instead of a culture where we’re always idolizing sports stars or celebrities, I want us to build a culture where we idolize the people who are shaping our children’s future. I want some teachers on the covers of some of those magazines. Some teachers on MTV, featured.
So I am 110 percent behind our teachers. But all I’m asking in return — as a President, as a parent, and as a citizen — is some measure of accountability. So even as we applaud teachers for their hard work, we’ve got to make sure we’re seeing results in the classroom. If we’re not seeing results in the classroom, then let’s work with teachers to help them become more effective. If that doesn’t work, let’s find the right teacher for that classroom.
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115 comments Add your comment
Lisa B.
July 29th, 2010
5:06 pm
Yet here in Georgia, we take away all high school educational opportunities except college prep. Bring back the vocational track and provide more options for students.
Think for yourselves for once
July 29th, 2010
5:08 pm
Before you brainwashed right-wingers jump all over this, just pretend your Jesus, Dubya Bush, wrote this speech (which would have been unlike him anyway) instead and then try reading it again. Don’t make it all about politics like you usually do…everything he said is the truth!
Mikey D
July 29th, 2010
5:18 pm
So if you have a classroom that isn’t getting results, it HAS to be the teacher? And the “right” teacher must be found for that class. Hmmm, what about the components of the class that the teacher can NOT control, like parental involvement? Nope, can’t talk about that. It HAS to be the teacher. Because we can run a good teacher out of the profession and claim that we’re doing bold things to reform education, and we look like we’re actually doing something.
I was really hoping that education policy would improve under this administration, but it’s just more of the same. Duncan is a clown, and Obama is unwilling to do anything except throw out worthless rhetoric, regardless of how eloquently he delivers it.
This will solve everything
July 29th, 2010
5:21 pm
Let’s take a 100 highly effective teachers from schools where there is a less than 10% free and reduced lunch. Teachers who have demonstrated effectiveness on based on student test scores for a period of years.
Now let’s take those same 100 teachers, and put them in schools where the free and reduced lunch rate is over 90%. Since the teacher is the single most important factor, and other factors are of little to no consequence, there will be no drop in the overall average scores of these students, compared to the students at the more affluent schools right?
For the millionth time!
July 29th, 2010
5:25 pm
The main problem with the premise of this speech is the mantra that teachers are not accountable!!! Who makes this crap up? Of course we are accountable. We are accountable to the students, their parents, our superiors and our community. Not only that, we have to constantly read in newspapers and on blogs such as these how dumb and lazy we are. In what alternate universe are we NOT accountable?? Any principal who is halfway decent knows exactly who the bad teachers in their schools are and YES, you can get rid of them. And NO, there is no union in Georgia and jobs of bad teachers are not protected. Actually jobs of good teachers are not protected. Please, please stop perpetuating these rumors and untruths.
This will solve everything
July 29th, 2010
5:28 pm
So if we just take the effective teachers out of the schools with 10% or less free and reduced lunch and move them to the schools with 90% or more free and reduced lunch, the average scores at the 90% free and reduced lunch schools will then match up with the average scores at the 10% or less free and reduced lunch schools, because the effectiveness of the teacher overrides every other factor, correct?
Freedom Education
July 29th, 2010
5:42 pm
“we’ve tolerated the status quo” Not Oboma, he canceled the successful voucher program in DC. “teachers are the single most important factor in a child’s education.” No, Parents are. “I want them to be trained like the professionals they are –- with rigorous residencies like the ones that doctors go through. “ Hey, I’m going to make millions like doctors make. I can’t wait.
Fericita
July 29th, 2010
5:43 pm
For the millionth time – There are too many principals who DON’T get rid of the bad teachers, and that gives the rest a bad name. Some teachers manage to put forth the least amount of effort possible, and some don’t even pretend to put forth an effort. I don’t know what the “how” of accountability looks like (as an ESOL teacher I’m not wild about test scores telling the story on my teaching ability), but we need it. Perhaps one place to start is evaluating teacher prep programs at colleges? I’ve had a couple of student teachers and oh my, that was eye opening. I don’t know if KSU teaches that Columbus celebrated Thanksgiving with the Indians in Virginia, but that’s what my student teacher sure thought.
Fericita
July 29th, 2010
5:46 pm
Oh, and I love the idea of a “residency program.” I’ve read about that elsewhere, although I can’t remember where. It’s basically extended student teaching – more responsibility, more time in the classroom with a “master teacher” prior to teaching on your own…I think that would be very valuable. Of course, you’d really need to screen the master teachers that the “residents” get put with.
William Casey
July 29th, 2010
6:08 pm
Until something is done to improve the percentage of homes that are of the stable, two-involved-parents variety, all the education reform in the world amounts to rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. PERFECT implementation of accountability/motivation schemes for teachers would improve real student performance 3-5% over the course of a students K-12 career. Worth doing? Probably. The cure for what ails American education? Probably not.
William Casey
July 29th, 2010
6:18 pm
Fericita’s idea is a good one. A full year’s “internship” with a Master Teacher who wanted to be a mentor would be ideal. It might help with the “drop-out” problem you don’t hear much about: the high % of novice teachers who “drop-out” of the profession during their first five years. The problem with the internship is money. The solution might be using retired Master Teachers (at much lower pay) to supervise the internship. Otherwise, you’re simply taking the very best teachers out of the classroom (or at least removing them from the daily interaction with students). And, that’s NOT a good plan.
East Cobb Parent
July 29th, 2010
6:23 pm
Let’s face it some teachers are great with different type of students. Let’s bring back ability grouping because this mix of skills from the IQ of 75 to 140 isn’t working. You simply cannot put 20+ kids in a class with such deviation in abilities and truly believe that the teacher can reach all. They will do their best until they are burned out. And yes, bring back the vo-tech track for high school. Not everyone plans to attend college. Students are individuals not widgets for mass production.
Lisa B.
July 29th, 2010
6:24 pm
Micky D., Arne Duncan is going to legislate parent involvement with Race to the Top. Of course, since nothing can actually be done to enforce that, the schools will probably take the rap when parents won’t get involved in the educational process.
nutshell
July 29th, 2010
6:45 pm
If the continual growth model is used; I think most teachers would go along with that model to assess acheivement. Pay teachers more, they can’t even pay us our regular salaries now. They dropped the NBC teacher pay.
As metioned in other post, principals worth their salt know which teachers don’t do a good job; know which teachers can handle all the “problem” students and know to overlook that teachers EOCT. Lastly they know the primadonna teacher that can only handle the top 20% of students.
As the president mentioned the majority of teachers work their butts off and spend their own money on students (I know I do). Teachers that get the kind of students I teach (ESL, repeaters, and thrown out of the primadonna classes) do the best we can with what we are given; BUT, to hold our pay and our jobs on what these kids score on some test without considering prior knowledge of the student before they got to me is totally unfair.
justbrowsing
July 29th, 2010
6:45 pm
so much for the choices of our “warm and fuzzy”, “self-esteem sensitive”, “I must have a voice and choice in everything” generation. Not suprising they are unwilling to put themselves in any uncomfortable position where they have to work- we have been forced to not MAKE them work. Therein lies the issue. What happened to self-efficacy?
SSTeacher
July 29th, 2010
6:47 pm
What he said, “So I want teachers to have higher salaries. I want them to have more support. I want them to be trained like the professionals they are –- with rigorous residencies like the ones that doctors go through. I want to give them a career ladder so they’ve opportunities to advance, and earn real financial security. I don’t want talented young people to say I’d love to teach but I can’t afford it.”
What he didn’t say but obviously supports as a means of getting there, “That’s why I fully support wholesale firings of teachers on the basis of faulty data. That way young teachers won’t realize that they will have to do the work of two or three teachers. Since they really don’t know what ‘good pay’ equate to, we will convince them that they are being paid a great wage by attaching bonuses to the performance of students, and because we call it a ‘bonus’ they will believe they are being valued.”
I said the same thing about Bush’s approach, so it’s not a republican/democrat or conservative/liberal bias. These politicians are so full of carp when it comes to education (and obviously the economy too) that it is useless to listen to them…just watch the results they get, then decide if they have a clue.
This will solve everything
July 29th, 2010
6:57 pm
“Just last week, we learned that in a single generation, America went from number one to 12th in college completion rates for young adults. Used to be number one, now we’re number 12.”
Isn’t it fair to say, that in the last 15 years or so, we have put forth more emphasis and money on “teacher quality,” and “teacher training” than ever before?
If so, then with all the improved “teacher effectiveness” why have we gone from 1 to 12 as Obama said, if the single most important factor is the teacher, and we have put more emphasis on effective teaching than in any time in our history?
Tweets that mention President Obama’s education speech today: Status quo is “morally inexcusable… economically indefensible.” -- Topsy.com
July 29th, 2010
6:58 pm
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War Eagle
July 29th, 2010
7:01 pm
Let the internship involve being the mentor teacher’s parapro…that way they are in the classroom everyday assisting the teacher in every activity from lesson planning to classroom management…for the entire school year.
Tony
July 29th, 2010
7:15 pm
If he really believes so strongly in teachers, he will fire Duncan and hire someone who really knows more about teaching like Linda Darling-Hammond. The pie-in-the-sky rhetoric still squarely places all the weight upon the teacher in the classroom and ignores the other realities that undermine students’ learning. Yes, the gap between black and white students is deplorable. It will not improve unless efforts are made to instill a stronger work ethic in our children. It will not improve unless families teach their children the value of a good education.
The opportunities for the best education in the world are right here in the United States. It’s truly a shame that so many people have adopted the attitude that all the responsibility rests upon the teacher. Students and families have to understand their responsibilities for learning are critical.
Johnny Still Can't Read
July 29th, 2010
7:19 pm
I’m 100% with you Nobama–but I have a simple question:
Will your success in solving education problems be comparable to your success in:
(a) Restoring the economy?
(b) Reducing unemployment?
(c) Strengthening our military?
(f) Reducing the deficit?
(g) Paring down U.S. debt?
(h) Plugging the “damn hole” in the Gulf of Mexico?
(i) All of the above.
Mmmm, mmmm, mmmm.
j
July 29th, 2010
7:29 pm
“Think for Yourselves….”, Do you think Obama wrote this? He’s too busy appearing on light-weight tv show, golfing, vacationing, playing golf, and giving three parties a week!
Sp Ed Teacher
July 29th, 2010
7:35 pm
Here in GA, we do have a 2 year mentoring program for new teachers. There is a stipend that goes with the program and you must be Teacher Support Specialist (TSS) certified. I am still in contact with the ones I have mentored. Also, did Sp Ed collab with some of them. We’ll all go out to lunch next week and even though I will start with a new teacher to mentor–I still keep up with previous ones.
Arnie–I heard you speak last month and you sure did lambast teachers. No on clapped for you either. A long pause of silence.
Happy Teacher
July 29th, 2010
7:46 pm
What continues to baffle me, and disappoint me, is that teachers don’t seen to recognize that the ONLY thing that will ever fix the problem of bad parenting/unprepared children is EDUCATION. There is nothing else that ever has, or ever will, work.
If you truly believe that all the problems start at home and continue into school, then you must recognize that the cycle can only stop in our nation’s classrooms. Is that a difficult burden to bear? Yes, but it is the challenge we must rise to. Or shrink from…
Happy Teacher
July 29th, 2010
7:47 pm
*seem
Webby
July 29th, 2010
7:49 pm
Has Obama ever gone into a classroom and talked to teachers? Has he ever gone to the homes of students who are under performing to find out what their life is like outside of the classroom? Has Obama ever considered that teachers, particularly those at the secondary level, actually have a small amount of time with each student, somewhere about an hour a day? Has Obama ever actually attempted to teach an apathetic adolescent? Teachers are certainly important and valuable, but they are only one part of the learning process. To lay the blame squarely at the feet of teachers and make them solely responsible for a student’s learning is not only unfair, but completely ridiculous.
MrNumbersMan
July 29th, 2010
7:50 pm
Why is there surprise from Obama in this speech? It’s the carrot-stick approach. The money is dangled then when it is taken there is accountability in the form of federal government intrusion into local education. The people have gotten the education they deserve. If you don’t take the time at home to teach your child how to behave, how to read, and so many other things. Put them to bed at a decent hour, limit the TV, talk to them and develop their vocabulary, and read to them then don’t be surprised when your child struggles in school. This isn’t about poverty, this is about parenting.
MrNumbersMan
July 29th, 2010
7:51 pm
The question should be “Why is there surprise from people about Obama’s speech?”
This will solve everything
July 29th, 2010
7:53 pm
Just because a person disagrees with you Happy Teacher, doesn’t mean in any way, shape, or form they put any less effort into their work than you do.
Recent Graduate
July 29th, 2010
7:57 pm
I just graduated from DSC in education. We had to do internship every semester of the program there. We were constantly in a classroom and gained more experience than other students at Georgia colleges and Universities. I firmly believe that all colleges should have the system that DSC has in training future teachers.
why not
July 29th, 2010
8:02 pm
Why not teach from the Bible. This would help ethics, behavior of students and adults. Respect and forgiveness and love are key elements of a successful life. This would involve family and community.
You know this is what worked back when we were number 1 in education and everything else.
leroy
July 29th, 2010
8:06 pm
Agree that ability grouping is a must.
Happy Teacher
July 29th, 2010
8:22 pm
Who said anything about effort?
Angela
July 29th, 2010
8:24 pm
Nothing is more important than teachers. The whole premise of Race to the Top is that teachers are the single most important factor in a child’s education from the moment they step into the classroom.
*******************************************************************************************************************
I am an important factor in a child’s education when he/she enters my second grade classroom however, I am NOT – NOT the single most important factor in that child’s education. Education begins at home not inside the classroom/school. We are the second teachers not the first. We do not see these children for the first 5 to 6 years of their lives. We do not teach them to walk, talk, eat, stand, crawl, etc. PARENTS or someone but not us. I am sick and tired of being sick and tired for being blamed for students not succeeding.
In most cases little Johnny, Becky, Shantce, etc. have issues that stem from their parents, home, etc. that over powers their learning process NOT teachers. Why don’t we implement more counseling programs to help these families and perhaps we teachers can produce more effective learners for a more productive work force.
sarahp
July 29th, 2010
8:33 pm
Ability grouping… group kids by each 20% points. 80-100 in one class…. 60-80 in the next … then 40-60 and on down the line. Set up growth targets based on growth expectations for each achievement level. There are lots of tests that measure growth over the year that have been around long enough and have been used widely enough that they already have expected growth rates for each achievement level. Base teacher raises on growth testing not garbage like CRCT testing. With each level of student, place the teacher that deals best with that level in that classroom. If you must, offer higher pay to teach the lower levels… but… make that higher pay conditioned on meeting growth targets.
EnoughAlready
July 29th, 2010
8:36 pm
Education is definitely our economic issue of the future and most will not realize it until 25 or 30 years from now.
However, all those that cry about local control, must admit that the federal government is not holding a gun to your head when it comes to advancing education in your school system. I haven’t seen a case for local government where they were told, by the federal government, that they could “NOT” do anything to improve their school systems.
This is a pure case of blaming someone else for your failure and not wanting to admit you are failing.
catlady
July 29th, 2010
8:36 pm
Recent Graduate: Not too cutting edge–The University of Tennessee had its ed students in the classroom starting the second quarter in 1970!
jekyllover
July 29th, 2010
8:40 pm
I hope we all want the best educational program in the world for our students in the U.S. We will not achieve that goal by using some paper and pencil tests that are always inadequate in measuring the complexity of the learning process. Why don’t we use some tests to measure the effectiveness of politicians, physicians, attorneys, BP executives, and everyone else in our world? Let’s show the teachers the respect Obama alludes to by asking them how to measure effective teachers, learning strategies, parenting skills, etc that impact the pupil’s learning success. Certainly, politicians are not the persons to provide the answers for the best educational practices for our students.
Teacher Reader
July 29th, 2010
8:45 pm
Glad that I left teaching this year. I want to be held accountable for the things that I am able to control. Extending student teaching isn’t going to magically make a teacher good. Honestly evaluating the student teachers during their time in the classroom and giving them an honest grade will change things. I have seen too many student teachers not get observed by mentor teachers from the university or get observed for only one or two times, that their evaluations held no water.
There are so many factors that a teacher cannot control. Teachers cannot control what is going on in a child’s home, if they ate, if they slept in a bed, if they got to bed at a descent time, if they got to get their homework done, etc.
Good teachers leave teaching, because they are tired of teaching to a meaningless test and not being able to offer their students a quality education that teaches students more deeply about the material that they are to cover. Money isn’t everything, being able to take pride in what you do and do it to the best of your ability with as little nonsense as possible meant a great deal more to me than a few extra bucks.
Lee
July 29th, 2010
8:47 pm
I’m confused. I thought integrated schools were supposed to close the achievement gap between black and white students. Yet, here we are 50+ years after Brown vs Board and the achievement gap is still here.
Could it be something else. Could there be differences in IQ between the races?
Oh no, that wouldn’t be politically correct.
bootney farnsworth
July 29th, 2010
8:53 pm
Enter your comments here
bootney farnsworth
July 29th, 2010
8:55 pm
that idiot Obama better hope the low standards of US education
stay right where they are.
an educated populace would never have bought his line of
poo and elected him in the first place.
Mel
July 29th, 2010
8:58 pm
Yes, yes Sarahp and East Cobb Parent. Inclusion has hampered all students and put teachers in a nearly impossible situation, especially in Elem School. You can’t help all levels when the learning levels are so diverse, so you teach to either the lowest common denominator – or the largest group. Either way, too many students lose.
A Teacher
July 29th, 2010
8:59 pm
It’s a conspcious omission to mention the “achievement gap” in terms of only white and black students, and the president should be embarrassed that he is not more representative in his description of the achievement gap.
If we want to talk about all major ethnic groups in America THESE are the FACTS about order from highest to lowest:
Asian
White
Black
Hispanic
What Obama failed to mention was that Asian’s are the highest achieving subgroup – above whites – and hispanics are the lowest – below blacks.
Come on Obama…you are the President…you should be better informed.
Also, EDUCATION IS ABOUT MORE THAN TESTING !!!! What about a love for learning? How are aesthetics’ to be assessed. Ladies and gentlemen, what they won’t tell you is that standardized multiple choice test are INCAPABLE of measuring many important cognitive and life skills, and things like imagination, creativity, and writing skills.
Concerned 1
July 29th, 2010
9:01 pm
In the words of Bill Clinton, “it’s the economy stu___!” There is a direct correlation between test results and socioeconomic status.
Fericita
July 29th, 2010
9:02 pm
Lee – schools are just as, if not more segregated now than ever before. Check out this article for verification from Teaching Tolerance magazine: http://www.tolerance.org/magazine/number-37-spring-2010/unmaking-brown , or pretty much anything written by Jonathan Kozol.
A Teacher
July 29th, 2010
9:03 pm
No, not a direct correlation, but perhaps a positive correlation.
Concerned 1
July 29th, 2010
9:04 pm
Lee, do your real homework.
bootney farnsworth
July 29th, 2010
9:09 pm
@ Lee
you sure proved there is a gap between the IQs of
decent people and bigots.
someone be sure and tell:
Guy Bluford
Clarence Thomas
Neil Tyson
Herman Cain
JC Watts
Maya Angelou
Juan Williams
Ben Bradley
LaVar Burton
Cab Calloway
Bill Cosby
Wally Amos
Leonard Pitts
they’re not as smart as white folk.
Lee, you’re an bigger idiot than Obama
Samau
July 29th, 2010
9:10 pm
The University of Arkansas will not give you a teaching license with your Bachelors Degree in Ed. You must stay an additional year and get your Masters and intern in a classroom for a FULL year in order to be recommended for licensure. This SHOULD be the status quo.
bootney farnsworth
July 29th, 2010
9:13 pm
it does make a perverse sense after wrecking the auto industry, the banking industry, the health care industry, wall street, basic rule of law, our borders, ect,,,,,
that he’d want to try his luck on education.
for God’s sake, we have enough problems without his “help”
Accountabilty (it takes a village)
July 29th, 2010
9:13 pm
It takes a village. I agree with the pay increase But teachers get several hours of training during year and summer. You don’t know what person goes through unless you walk in their shoes. Education is one the hardest professions, but it is the least respected professions in America. At some point parents and their children need to be more accountable.in education. Teachers can only do so much. Maybe President Obama can require parents to attend workshops and complete volunteer hours. America is going to have to demand more parental involvement in our schools to see a difference education.
bootney farnsworth
July 29th, 2010
9:19 pm
@ accountability
I was with you right until you drove off a cliff by suggesting
Obama “require” folks to do something.
besides going totally against the grain of freedom of choice,
you can’t compell someone to care about anything
bootney farnsworth
July 29th, 2010
9:21 pm
its very simple:
folks who care about education get results.
folks who don’t care about education get nothing.
KP
July 29th, 2010
9:23 pm
I’m not a teacher, but in every other profession there is some measure of accountability. I agree that teachers have to deal with bad parents and inadequate schools, but all of us have deficiencies at our workplace and the people we work with that we have to deal with and still we have ways that we are held accountable. Teachers, if you don’t want to use Test Scores as a way to measure performance, what do you want to use? I personally think that we can use test scores and place them on a scale based on the socio-economic stats of a particular school. If the richest school in the district achieves a 90% passing ratio on a standardized test, maybe that translates to the poorest school in the district achieving a 65% passing ratio for that school to meet the standard. If the poorer school surpasses a 65% passing ratio the teacher should be given bonuses and if they are below 65% they should be subject to a probationary period and could eventually fired. I think this will allow the free-market to help push our best teachers where they are needed most. If I was a teacher, I could teach at the wealthy school and make a decent living and work with the easier set of children and achieve decent test scores or I could accept the challenge of working at the poorer school with the harder set of children but I also have the potential to make significantly more money. Imagine a teacher at the richer school making $40,000 a year but a teacher at the poorer school has the opportunity to make upwards of $70,000 a year. I believe not only would we get some better innovation and better teaches at the poorer school, but test scores would also improve. What do you think?
HStchr
July 29th, 2010
9:24 pm
ONE thing I will agree with is that we have to elevate the overall perception of teachers as compared to sports and entertainment stars. We idolize them and pay them beyond outraegously to do their jobs. And they do them well, in part, because they are aware of the money and the expectation. Bring on accountability, I’m ready for it. When you pay me and treat me as if I’m as valuable as LeBron, you’ll likely get the results you want. And you’d be fair to expect them. Pay teachers more to work in high poverty schools or to work with special nees populations. I’ve spent the better part of 20+ years working with “at-risk” kids. I have a natural affinity to work with the struggling kids. Pay me what I’m worth compared to a quarterback and I can get the kids to be more successful. I already do it for whole lot less than I could have been making in private industry. I LOVE what I do, and it would be nice to be able to pay my bills, my individual classroom expenses, and my student loans for my master’s degree all in the same month.
Iggy
July 29th, 2010
9:25 pm
I’m not convinced teachers are underpaid. The salaries are for part-time work, 9 months per year, plenty of holidays and breaks, and rarely an 8-hour day even when working. Sure, there are exceptions, but I don’t see many. My kids in the DeKalb Co. system, particularly at the middle school, have been cursed with indifferent teachers who do anything but instill a love of learning in their students. Before anyone launches into a What do YOU do as a parent tirade, I can state without the slightest hesitation that I am deeply involved in my children’s education, both at home and in the school. Sadly, parental involvement at the middle school my son has had the misfortune of attending is actively discouraged, communication is attempted by parents but the teachers don’t respond, and the administrators are just as ineefectual and unresponsive (but they sure make certain everyone has their shirt tucked in). Sad, but true.
Angela
July 29th, 2010
9:36 pm
@bootney farnsworth,
I don’t usually make comments to people who make racist comments because I was taught that ignorance is bliss. However, perhaps you might want to research the background of those whom you say are not as smart as White Folks. Obama is smart enough to already be a millionaire without being the US President. Gee, I wonder how smart was he NOT!
It appears that you have a lot of anger that has nothing to do with Obama or any other race of people. You perhaps need to seek mental help to rid yourself of your true anger. Oh, and perhaps you might want to check your blood pressure when you are calling people idiots because I am sure that it goes up 50 points which takes off so many points of your life span – not the people of color, we are happy with who we are smart or dumb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hugs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sarcasm Alert
July 29th, 2010
9:46 pm
Paging Angela…
You want to read that agian. He’s going after Lee. Lee is the resident racist.
Angela
July 29th, 2010
9:51 pm
@Iggy
I am a DCSS teacher and the words that you speak are not true. Such as we encourage parental involvement that is positive not being cursed out because your child has EARNED a F. We all welcome positive involvement. In DCSS you as parents via Crawford (good customer service) have been allowed to come into schools do what you want and say what you want. We don’t get paid to be abused by you or your children. (And, guess what even more so now that our pay has been cut – we are mad and ani’t gonna take it any more)!
And, just for the record we do not work part-time we are educated, certified by the state of Georgia full time employees. We do not get paid to stay for parent-teacher conferences, PTA, Extra Curricular Activities, and even call you after hours to speak to you about our CONCERNS about your child. But, you are the parent that make us not put forth the effort because you don’t appreciate what we do.
Yes, you say you are involved but to what quality. Because of your comments I can almost be assured that there are unmentioned issues in your child’s school with you and your child. It also, would not behoove me that your child attends one of the schools on the south side of the county that have a high discipline problem. We teach what you send us. If you want us to produce bright students well send us that and we can make them geniuses.
Angela
July 29th, 2010
9:54 pm
@Sarcasm Alert,
Thanks for the clarity. Bootney I gracefully apologize.
@LEE,
Then my comments are to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Educator2
July 29th, 2010
10:12 pm
@This will Solve Everything 5:21 and 5:28 – Thanks for that scenario. Teachers can make a difference but teachers cannot over ride all of poverty’s obstacles.
@For The Millionth Time 5:25- Thank you, I get so tired of stating the same thing! We have these unnecessary discussions (about educational “reforms”, merit pay proposals, etc) all in an effort to rid the schools of “bad teachers”. Principals (rather than teachers) simply need to be forced to do their job. We all have to suffer these idiotic discussions because principals will not do the paperwork to fire the “bad teachers” that exist in their school. “Reform” should start from the top (Policy makers- governors/legislatures, superintendent, county office personnel and administrators) the culture or corruption begins with them.
@Freedom Education 5:42- Our society will never respect or pay teachers like doctors but society will want teachers to complete their level of “rigorous residencies”. Who in their right mind will complete that “rigor” without the pay and respect?
GoodforKids
July 29th, 2010
10:13 pm
@ This will solve everything comment at 5:28pm…EXACTLY!!!
I have kids in one of the highest-achieving elementary schools around with very few kids on free or reduced lunch. I have been in many schools in my many years of work with a high percentage of children on free or reduced lunch. I can assure you that most of the teachers at my kids’ school are good teachers who work hard, but if you put most ANY of them in one of those schools I have been in, they aren’t going to produce what they did at the high-achieving school. Some of them will do better than some of the teachers in the high poverty schools, but some won’t do as well as some of the teachers already in the building. It is not that simple.
drew (former teacher)
July 29th, 2010
10:18 pm
sarahp (8:33) and E Cobb Parent (6:23) have identified the crux of the problem, using simple, God given, common sense. Unfortunately, common sense has no place in public education.
And of course there are bad teachers, and schools would be better if they could be weeded out. Unfortunately, it’s not easy to get rid of one…it requires a principal willing to document (to the nth degree, with multiple opportunities for the teacher to receive in-service training to correct any deficiencies) a teacher’s incompetence. And principals are typically not interested in all that…all they want is the bad teacher gone, so maybe they employ various means to let them know they are not wanted, and push them off on some other unsuspecting school. Bad teachers don’t get fired, they move. Of course, the recent RIF allowed systems to rid themselves of some of the “bad apples”, along with some good apples as well. But until there is a sufficient supply of “good teachers”, the bad ones will fill the void.
and bootney…sheezzz..lay off the talk radio…I guess it was Nobama caused my hemorrhoids to flair up last week too…
Iggy
July 29th, 2010
10:19 pm
Angela, most of your assumptions are false. My son attends Shamrock M.S., in north DeK. He is in the Gifted Program. My child gets A’s, but they mean little. If anyone was trying to make a genius out of him it sure wasn’t any of his teachers. I was the Team Parent for 80 students last year. I could not get the Team Lead teacher to even respond to my emails offering help. There are no “issues” with my son beyond the reality that he, along with most of the other students there, are getting a lousy education. THAT’S the issue.
If you really think you aren’t paid for doing the things teachers are supposed to do to be good teachers because they go beyond the 8 a.m.to 4:00 pm. school day, then how do to you possibly think you have a full-time job? Don’t forget, you are off for about 4 months per year. Teachers make quite a bit more than many professionals with comparable education. (For example check out the salaries of health educators or environmental scientists. Both nearly always require masters’ degrees. Fewer than half of teachers have at least a masters. But they make quite bit more, for a lot fewer hours).
I would love to see teachers own up to the shortcomings of many in their profession and support firing them so that real educators could then be entrusted with our children’s futures.
Angela
July 29th, 2010
10:33 pm
@lggy,
For your information a health educator and environmental scientists are teaching on the college level and yes they are required to have at least a masters. But, if you don’t know it they are paid based upon the number of classes they teach and the level of credentials that they have earned.
I love when parents come back with my child is in the gifted program. Well, let me just tell you something about the gifted program. Many of the children are placed into the program based upon test scores, in many cases the requirements have been modified to accommodate students because there are not enough who truly meet the criteria.
So what the teacher did not get back with you so you say. Did she get the e-mail – just for the record with first class a lot of e-mails are lost because we have been under going system changes that are suppose to be for the better (that leave a lot to be desired).
Yes, we do have short comings we are human but, can you admit your short comings as a parent? And, if the problems you describe or so bad why don’t you send your child to another school? I am sure that Shamrock won’t mind.
Oh, what kind of work do you do since you have so much time on your hands?
Educator2
July 29th, 2010
10:39 pm
True story – a student entered school did not know any letters (not even A, B or C), did not know any numbers (not even 1,2 or 3), could not recite the alphabet (not at all) or rote count (not even to 5). The student did not know any colors (not 1 color) and did not recognize a crayon or pencil by name. The student referred to the pencil and crayon as “it”. This student is expected to read and write independently, add, subtract, etc in 10 months. The reasons why the student is unprepared is irrelevant according to many who provide their opinion on education. I tell this story because those outside of the classroom have no idea the dynamics that occur in any given Title 1 school. So save the teacher accountability lecture.
Iggy
July 29th, 2010
10:40 pm
Angela, your response proves my point wonderfully. I can only hope you teach something in which you are likely to inflict minimal damage.
Angela
July 29th, 2010
10:40 pm
Oh – are so bad
Angela
July 29th, 2010
10:41 pm
You still did not respond to the questions.
Iggy
July 29th, 2010
10:55 pm
A, I detect 3 questions:
Q1: Yes, she got my emails. Many of them. Using different email accounts. As did the other teachers who ignore parent communications. They do tend to start responding when you copy the principal. (And the principal starts responding when you copy the superintendent.) God knows, I have no interest in escalating things. A few brief, informative responses from my child’s teachers are all I want.
Q2: I think it’s sad when a public school teacher thinks that sending one of the school’s best students to another school is a great plan. (And, of course, why should I think it would be any different?)
Q3: Regarding my job: It’s none of your business, but I am fortunate to have the flexibility to devote time to my children’s education. That’s not a problem, is it?
Sp.Ed Teacher
July 30th, 2010
12:04 am
I love when people bring up a Master’s Degree as a comparison. There are many school systems who would rather pay a Bachelor’s Degree salary than a Master’s Degree salary when hiring teachers, especially with this economy. Also, just because you have a Master’s Degree doesn’t mean you can teach any better than someone who is fresh out of college. Making gains in the classroom from Day 1 of school to Day 180 is what should matter.
Angela
July 30th, 2010
12:04 am
@lggy,
You are correct your job is none of my business however, you seem to know much about teachers jobs. If you really had a real job you would be proud to announce it. Yes, if the school is that bad you should send your child to another school, I did as a parent and guess what I lived off of Columbia drive and did not even want to send my daughter to SW Dekalb (why because just when we moved into the area several students had been shot and lots of fights). She stayed in APS a better school for her academic needs. It was in the best interest of my daughter’s education. That is what good parents and teacher do. And, she was not in the gifted program but now holds a masters in education and teaches in DCSS too! You see you would much rather belittle teachers to boost your parental ego rather than do what is in the best academic interest of your child. So, who loses? I can almost believe that your academic experiences were poor as well perhaps, socially promoted.
Also, I can tell you why the teachers don’t respond to you it is because as I mentioned before – Crawford has allowed you all to think that you can do and say what you want. And, for the record I can assure that by copying the e-mails to the principals and supers it does not change whether the teacher will respond or not. We are not intimidated by parents. She only did it because she was ASK to not demanded.
If you want better and more postive lines of communication from teachers you really need to look in a mirror and see that you are more of the problem than the teachers. Just like your response to me was NONE of my BUSINESS! This is why we don’t………….!
I agree
July 30th, 2010
1:05 am
Iggy @ 10:55, as a parent and teacher, I understand your frustration when teachers don’t respond to your inquiries. Since my son started middle school, I have started to see how some teachers can have an unresponsive attitude about communicating with parents. This creates a gap in the parent-teacher communication system, and this may be one of the reasons parents don’t partake in school activities as much as they should.
As a poster mentioned earlier,it take a village. As a 5th grade teacher, I always reach out to my parents. I even provide my cell phone number to them in case they need to reach me or have questions. Parents, myself including, love being able to know they can contact their child’s teachers for questions or concerns. It is amazing how something as simple as a cell phone number can develop trust with parents. In the 10+ years I have been teaching, I have had excellent parent participation and parent support. I have even encouraged many of my parents to go back to college. My students are just as successful. As a self-contained EIP teacher many of my students are below grade level in reading and/or math, however by developing bonds and making learning fun and individualized, my students ALWAYS passes the CRCT for reading and math and the state’s writing test.
Teaching is hard work, no doubt, and yet it also has its benefits. Effective teachers can teach the harder to reach students with extreme success, provided there is a positive bond and/or interaction with the families.
Pflege Tips » President Obama’s education speech today: Status quo is “morally inexcusable … - Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)
July 30th, 2010
2:03 am
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
Lee
July 30th, 2010
6:14 am
Funny how the politically correct want to preach “tolerance”, but seem to be the first to start calling names with those who present a different viewpoint. Exhibit #1 why this country will never have an honest dialogue about race, intelligence, and scholastic achievement.
Case in point, Bootney, Sarcasm and Angela.
Yes Boot, I am aware there are many successful and intelligent blacks. It’s called a normal distribution.
d
July 30th, 2010
7:40 am
I always love it when we compare American education to education in the rest of the industrialized world. Sure, we look like we’re slacking off here in the United States, but let’s take a look at one minor detail that gets left out. At about the 6th grade, most countries begin to track their students towards either academia of some sort or to vocational training of some sort. Do you honestly think that we compare our students to their vocational students? No. We take everyone and compare them to the best of the best in countries like Germany and Japan. Any wonder we look like we’re not doing so hot? I’d put our best and brightest against those in any country any day and I’m sure we’d do just fine.
FLAWoodLayer
July 30th, 2010
8:16 am
I’m all for accountability Mr. President just apply it to your own administration when it comes to the Sherrod firing, the war in Afghanistan, your lack of lifting don’t ask don’t tell, immigration reform, etc. If we as teachers are the biggest factors in changing education why are we receiving a 3.7% reduction in pay in DeKalb County? May not sound like much but that lose of @ $178 for me hurts. My girlfriend who teaches in Gwinnett was one of several teachers tidying her room up before Open House next Wednesday. Why should teachers get classrooms in order on their own dime? If little Johnny’s parents are shocked that nothing is on the wall at open house tell them to take it up with the GA Legislature and Sonny. If you are a teacher DO NOT go to your school this weekend or today! Let’s make the state earn their furlough days.
nutty shell
July 30th, 2010
8:43 am
@ KP
research “growth model” or “continual growth model” most teachers would go along with that one.
It tracks the student year to year, instead of the way it is done now.
Dr NO
July 30th, 2010
8:51 am
Obama is a stupid idiot and needs to worry about his own corrupt admin before jumpin on other issues. He is just such an embarrassement.
Angela
July 30th, 2010
9:05 am
@FLAWoodLayer,
Well, you are too late with the request I went Wednesday mainly, because I needed custodial assistance because of my recent surgery. I did not want it to conflict with all of the other things they will have to do when we all return. But, I agree.
@I agree,
I commend you for giving parents your cell number. However, you have just given lggy a whole other reason to continue to disrespect teachers. Apparently, you did not get out of his response the same thing that I did. And, just for info. I do not give my cell or home number to parents because I value my family time. My family comes first. This is one of the reasons that teachers, police, politicians, misters, etc. have children that are out of control because their parents allow their jobs to come first. When I first started teaching I spent over an hour on the phone with a parent and my child did not feel well. When I got off of the phone my daughter said to me “mommy why did you spend so much time talking to someone about their child and I don’t feel well? From that day forward my family came and still comes first she is now 29 years of age and she will always come first. Best wishes to you and your family.
Proud Black Man
July 30th, 2010
9:33 am
@ Dr NO
“Obama is a stupid idiot and needs to worry about his own corrupt admin before jumpin on other issues. He is just such an embarrassement.”
I “refudiate” this typicasl tea (insert the name that cannot be mentioned) rant.
Proud Black Man
July 30th, 2010
9:34 am
typical
I agree
July 30th, 2010
10:07 am
@ Angela,
Thank you, and I understand your rationale. However, giving my parents my cell phone number has not created a problem for me in all the years I have taught. By setting clear expectations, my parents understand that the number is only for emergencies. I tell them it’s a 5-Minute Response number. That means if they have a serious concern that can be addressed in five minutes or less, then they should call. If it takes longer, then I simply follow up the next day during work hours. So, when they call, it’s usually to ask a quick question, or to verify information. I have even had parents text me, which is usually faster for me.
On the few times a month I do have to take a cell call or text from a parent, my personal children never feel neglected. My children are very emphathetic and understanding (perhaps they get it from me). They actually think it’s “cool” that I give my cell phone number to parents, and wish their teachers would do the same.
Giving out a cell phone number has to be something a teacher feels comfortable doing. Should teachers be expected to give out personal cell phone numbers? Of course not. I was simply using that to point out how trust and positive parent-teacher communication can be derived through such measure.
My point still boils down to the fact that it does take a village to raise a child, and you should treat others how you want to be treated. As a teacher with children in school, I know that it is important for the teachers and parents to work together. As a parent, I would like for to know that a teacher is willing to establish and maintain an open communication in the development of my child.
Iggy
July 30th, 2010
10:51 am
Jeez Angela, I would love to copy those emails to you. They were just so outrageous and disrespectful of teachers! Things like inquiring about work missed while my child was out sick! Or asking for some information about a field trip! CAn you believe the nerve of a parent to ask such things?!?
Really, your attitude encapsulates everything that is wrong about public school teachers. Sure, there are plenty of good ones–we have had some excellent teachers at Fernbank Elem in DCSS. But to state there are lousy, lazy, incompetent teachers is to state a fact. And there are plenty. Until teachers stop making excuses for them and become willing to hold them accountable for wasting our children’s lives there is little hope for improvement.
Accountabilty (it takes a village)
July 30th, 2010
11:00 am
Please take your racist hatred toward President Obama out of this matter. Every blog that I read on AJC has racism connection against President Obama. “No Child left behind” was created by the Bush Administration. This is Bush’s mess. So instead of writing racist statement against President Obama, write the Obama administration on ways to solve these issues in education. Education starts at home not in the classroom. Parents are children first teacher. Students have to be more accountable as well..
@Iggy
I feel your pain. But as a parent, I had to get to a point and realize that my child has to tighten up herself. We can’t blame the school system for our own short comings. Open your eyes and look at the person in mirror. You expect this great communication by your child’s teacher, but are you opening your own door to listen. Teachers are overwhelm with other responsibilities other than teaching. Most of them, like you still have families to go home to take care for. Most teachers that I know go in early and stay late. The average teacher works 12 hours over each week of not being paid. Many times they takes work home with them. As far as the email goes with you being a Team Parent, this is the teachers choice to use you or not. If your attitude is bad as bad as this blog, I would have not responded back to you either. I am pretty sure this wasn’t on his/her priority list. I may have asked another parent to help me.
jack daniel, III
July 30th, 2010
11:19 am
Dried Beans – to soak or not to soak, that is the question
Iggy
July 30th, 2010
11:36 am
My god, it is hopeless. Good luck DeKalb students, your teachers would rather make excuses and encourage mirror gazing as the solution.
Suavez
July 30th, 2010
12:15 pm
@Lee, when they can’t argue against the points you make they have to resort to personal attacks. Deep down they know you are right though.
Dr NO
July 30th, 2010
12:22 pm
Obama is a stupid idiot and should resign The Office of the Presidency. Obama is very stupid, he cant make decisions, he apologizes for the U.S. being a success. What an Ahole and dont apologize for me OBlunder.
Iggy
July 30th, 2010
12:25 pm
Dr No, you can’t even refrain from copying yourself. Perhaps you should listen to one of your talk-show idols to come up with some fresh and coherent lines before you post again.
Dr NO
July 30th, 2010
12:25 pm
Im not gonna write the Presidential Toilet about anything. He is so smart he should be able to handle things…thats what his voters thought when casting their ballots.
AWW…what wrong…everyone who disagrees with OBumbler is a racist? Aww…you gonna cry for us….LMAO, LOSERS! ODumbHole is gonna be a lameduck come Nov 2010…whacha gonna do about it, HUH?!!
Dr NO
July 30th, 2010
12:29 pm
I bet everynight when OButtFace goes to bed Michelle is waiting and begins to taunt him. “I thought you knew what you were doing”. “Barry, you are very stupid”. “Barry, a monkey rear-end has more common sense then you”.
Poor Michelle, to be such an intelligent woman she sure picked a LOSER!
Proud Black Man
July 30th, 2010
12:30 pm
@ Lee
“I’m confused. I thought integrated schools were supposed to close the achievement gap between black and white students. Yet, here we are 50+ years after Brown vs Board and the achievement gap is still here.
Could it be something else. Could there be differences in IQ between the races?
Oh no, that wouldn’t be politically correct.”
Could it be that when schools were integrated white people fled en-mass and the white right is actively working against public education? Thats not too politically correct either is it?
Iggy
July 30th, 2010
12:30 pm
More intelligent discussion from the party of NO.
Proud Black Man
July 30th, 2010
12:34 pm
@ Dr NO
Let me take a stab at your mental illness; you were cuckolded by a brother right? Acceptance is the first step to healing. Maybe this will help you in your future endeavors:
http://tinyurl.com/38duc62
Dr NO
July 30th, 2010
12:42 pm
When OFailure is with Michelle and climax is acheived the screams out “ALLAH AKBAR DAMNIT, bring me some Malt Liquor”.
Dr NO
July 30th, 2010
12:43 pm
If it was the “Muslim Scouts of America” you can bet OBumbler would have been in attendance.
Dr NO
July 30th, 2010
12:44 pm
It will be nice come Nov 2012 when OLoser is tossed out.
Iggy
July 30th, 2010
1:09 pm
It will be even nicer when the teabaggers crawl back under their rocks.
Accountabilty (it takes a village)
July 30th, 2010
9:22 pm
@ Dr. No, @lee, @ bootney
You all need to seriously seek professional help for your racism. It is a disease that will destroy you.. I wish AJC bring down any blogs that speaks out against racism. You spend more time criticizing President Obama instead of resolving the problems which is include your children too. How would you all resolved this problem of education in this country? Please be reminded that your President Bush started the problem. “No child left behind”
Write your suggestions:
northatlantateacher
July 31st, 2010
7:22 am
@Iggy:
I am a high school teacher in a north metro system. I can guarantee you our primary directive from our administration (other than the obvious of using good teaching practices) is communication with parents. We are to respond to email or phone calls within 24-48 hours.
When I read about experiences parents have in other systems – and they mostly seem to be concentrated in DCSS, Clayton and APS – I am shocked at what I read.
I get very upset when a parent (any parent – not directed at you) makes assumptions that most teachers are lazy, apathetic, whatever – because of negative experiences they’ve had. I know it’s human nature to do so, but I work so very hard and it hurts to know a lot of parents assume otherwise.
My principal fired 10 teachers last year. Not transferred elsewhere, fired period. Gone and out of our system. So it does happen. Bad teachers do get fired.
I know my system is a good one, but it’s also a very wealthy one. To acknowledge a high SES and a good system go hand in hand is certainly not popular, but it is so very true.
This will be my 9th year, and I hope that during my career I see accountability for teachers that is as accurate as possible. I also hope to see a fundamental shift in the way education is percieved by many – that it is the sole responsibility of the school system. It’s the job of ALL of us – parents, teachers, coaches, relatives, bosses, etc. I do not think this will happen any time soon, unfortunately.
Lee
July 31st, 2010
12:35 pm
Newsflash @Accountability, it is not “racism” to discuss the characteristics and attributes of the different races.
My saying that there are inherent differences between the races, including IQ, is no different than my saying the sun rises in the East and sets in the West.
I guess I need professional help for that “disease” as well.
Accountabilty (it takes a village)
July 31st, 2010
2:02 pm
@Lee
It is what it is
Your discussions are degrading and condescending to one particular person of one particular race. Yes you are a racist and you need to seek professional help. Denial is the first indication. You still haven’t answered my question. Back to the issue. What can be done to resolve this problem of education in America? POST Your comment
Teacher
August 1st, 2010
1:04 am
Iggy,
I agree with you about teacher communication. It is very important that any email/phone call from a parent be returned by the end of the day. I also check my email during the evening to make sure I keep the lines of communication open. There really is no excuse for a teacher not to respond to a parent. Even if a teacher doesn’t have an answer right away, they can still contact the parents to let them know they are working on the request.
I disagree with you about the work hours. Yes, we get a lot of breaks. So what? If you want those breaks, become a teacher! You will quickly see that it is a tremendous amount of work. During the year, you are right that we don’t work 8 hours a day. Try 10-12! It’s not a joke! There’s a lot going on behind the scene that you haven’t considered.
Just a thought!
Lee
August 1st, 2010
9:09 am
@Accountability, so, if I state the obvious and say anything that shows blacks in a less favorable light, such as comment on the disproportionate crime rate among blacks, or the high illegitimate birth rate among blacks, I’m a racist.
If I am Bill Cosby and say those things, I’m an Uncle Tom.
Exhibit A as to why the problems within the black community will never go away. To first solve a problem, you must be able to talk about the problem.
ScienceTeacher671
August 1st, 2010
12:10 pm
Considering what seems to get through the filter and what has to be released from the filter, does the filter actually do anything but impede conversation?
Maureen Downey
August 1st, 2010
1:41 pm
ScienceTeacher, It does catch blatant obscenities and lots of ads for “London escorts” and Viagra. But it also catches a lot of legitimate postings. I do have a plan to actually eliminate all filtering for one day and let everything through – a day when I can be on the blog 24/7 to quickly catch and delete the escort ads. That is a suggestion of one of my IT colleagues. He says I should then restore the list of unacceptable terms and see if the filter eases up a bit on the legitimate posts.
I may try it this week. So, be prepared to see – at least until I delete them — a lot of ads that the filter is catching.
Maureen
ScienceTeacher671
August 1st, 2010
6:52 pm
Maureen, that will be an interesting day! (Maybe not in a good way, but interesting…)
I guess that’s sort of like the spam filter on my email. I get annoyed at what gets through, until I check what got caught…
Devil's Advocate
August 1st, 2010
7:40 pm
Lee- Since your postings are regularly controversial, will you go on record stating that you feel that blacks are born equal, on average, to whites, on average? It is just sociological and environmental differences that create statistical gaps? Such a statement would give your opinion far more intellectual heft, especially now that you have aligned yourself with Cosby, whom I’d bet would be happy to make the statements I ask you to.
Lee
August 1st, 2010
10:42 pm
@DA, wow, I really need to get me some of those politically blinders. Makes life a lot easier when you don’t have to face reality, eh?
There are differences between the races. Plain and simple. You think not? Then explain why an anthropologist can look at a skeleton and tell whether it was negroid or caucasion. Explain why different races are more or less succeptible to certain diseases. The list goes on and on.
Dr NO
August 2nd, 2010
7:31 am
Why is ODumber coming to Atlanta today. We dont need him here and personally Dr NO has zero interest in anything he says other than for its obvious comedic value.
ODumber is a joke, a jester, a walking talking rectum.
Devil's Advocate
August 2nd, 2010
7:36 am
And there are differences between people born in the North and in the South…so how should that affect policy?
At least have the courage to admit your convictions. No one is falling for the code of “differences”.
Andrea
September 14th, 2010
9:18 am
It’s an economic issue because there is not enough funding and kids are just numbers taught only to pass the tests and then not taught beyond that. It is an economic issue because schooling, even “free public school”, is expensive. I just don’t understand why it has to be a competition between other countries or why we blame the teachers——it is hard to teach 36 kids in one class because there is not enough money and teachers have to be laid off……. Ugh, it is so frustrating. They are children, not numbers and education should focus on the whole child, including extra curricular activities–because studies prove that a well rounded child learns better, enjoys school more, and gets better grades.
teacher&mom
September 14th, 2010
4:49 pm
WOW!! I have many comments, so just hang in there! I have read every comment on this from beginning to end, and many of the problems in our country today are apparent in them. First of all, why don’t you people GROW UP!!! The person who keeps putting degrading names after “O” for Obama is just as much a waste of life as anyone he is commenting on. The trick is NOT in taking a side. Everyone has a different opinion/ viewpoint and that is fine. The real trick is to express your points in a MATURE way. I too did not vote for Obama, and will not vote for him again. But I can express my views without acting like a child- if you would try the same, people might listen rather than shutting your comments off. Comments like yours belong with 12 year olds on the playground.
To the person being attacked for saying that there are differences between races, Lee I think, everyone needs to admit that he is right. There are many differences. Some negative, some positive for each race. If you measure IQ’s, AS A WHOLE, whites have higher IQ’s—that’s the AVERAGE white IQ is higher than the AVERAGE black IQ. However, I am white and am perfectly comfortable admitting that as a whole asians have higher IQ’s than whites. Why should I argue- its totally true- ON AVERAGE!!!!!!!!! There are MANY blacks that I know are smarter than I am, and many asians who are dumber. It isn’t saying that all whites are smart and all blacks are stupid- I’ve known some pretty idiotic whites!!! I can also say that ON A WHOLE, blacks are more athletic. I bet most blacks wouldn’t argue with that! That doesn’t mean that there aren’t some great white athletes, or that every black is. I am not saying anything out of racism…I grew up in a very high percenage black community and have never been racist. I am stating fact, and those who cannot accept fact are lying to themselves. Instead of admitting that this is just how it is and figuring out a way to overcome it and work around it, they call those who state it racists. Again, you can’t take offense. I am certainly not saying that every black is dumb, or is dumber than whites—-everyone recognizes that if you look at the highest IQ’s in the world many of them would be black. My goodness, if y’all would grow up you could see the arguments for what they truly are.
As to the parent/ teacher argument going on, you should both be ashamed of yourselves, and you should both back down and realize that you each have valid points, and that neither of you has all the pieces to the story. I am a teacher, and every teacher that I know admits that there are bad teachers in the profession, like that parent says we don’t. And we do want accountability. But what people outside the teaching profession don’t realize is that the accountability that we should have should be on OUR PERFORMANCE!!!!! Everyone wants to make us accountable for the kids’ performance and that isn’t fair at all. I hear people from other professions talk all the time about how they are held accountable and given evaluations for THEIR WORK…so are teachers! Evaluate me on MY performance. But, if you’ve never taught, let me clear some things up. I can teach- I am good at it, and I work hard at it, but I CANNOT motivate the unmotivated. I have had students who will write their names on their tests and hand them straight back to me. They won’t even answer multiple choice questions. How can I then be held accountable for them failing the test??? I’ve had students who just won’t try. I hold them after class, or offer extra tutoring sessions and they say they just don’t care. I try to get facts about jobs and money for their futures, thinking I can motivate them that way, but they still say they don’t care. How do I “teach” that child? Teachers are no longer allowed to require anything out of students, and we are not allowed to kick them out of class for misbehaving. If they choose to sleep, we can’t do anything about it. I teach so hard on many days that I absolutely exhaust myself. I give my students everything they need to succeed in my class. It is THE CHILD’S choice and responsibilty what they do with the information that I give them. It is also the job of the parent to motivate their children to care and to study. I am committed to holding up MY END of the bargain, but in my opinion, teachers are the LEAST responsible. I have had classes of unmotivated kids, and it wouldn’t matter what teacher they had, they just wouldn’t succeed because THEY DON’T WANT TO. On the other hand, I have had honors classes with kids who, if they had a horrible teacher who never spoke a word, they would take it upon themselves to get the books and learn on their own. Many people blame teachers, and many blame parents, but very few talk about the most important aspect in education, the students. Again, until we face the problems, we cannot solve them. STUDENTS should be held accountable again. I think that if you aren’t doing well, you should go into another track- vocational. Teach them a trade!!! If someone wants to be a mechanic, they DO NOT need to take chemistry. Send them to a vocational school so they can learn what THEY need! Also, to reiterate somone else’s point, the countries we are being compared to have that system. We are only compared to the upper performers in those countries because they have already gotten rid of the low performers. This is a totally unfair comparison.
Also, I, and every other teacher, get SO SICK of people talking about us not working many hours, or having “3 months” off for the summer. Well, first of all, look at your calendar, we don’t even get a full 2 months off. Is it AWESOME to get even the 8 weeks we get- absolutely. But contrary to popular belief, we DO NOT GET PAID FOR THE SUMMER!!! We get checks, but only because our school districts basically steal part of our earnings through the school year so that they can earn interest off of it instead of us. We work SO MANY hours that people don’t realize, and many of us DO spend much of our summers at school working—not getting paid—but working. I get to work at least an hour early every day, and am here long after school is out. When I leave, I leave with armfulls of papers to grade, or I go home and get on the computer to search new ways to teach a topic, or to prepare lessons. Or I’m off to Walmart to buy things (with my own money, of course) that I need to provide your precious children with the “education they deserve” only to then have to come early or stay late to sit in a conference with a parent telling me that I am a horrible teacher and should be fired because Johnny (who remember wouldn’t take his test) is failing.
Now, for the person who spoke of “primadonna” teachers who supposedly have the easy job of teaching the “higher kids”—get your facts straight. I have taught EVERY level of kids over my years of teaching. I have taught low low low level classes, I have taught AP classes. Neither should be paid more. Teachers find their niches. Just like some doctors love being pediatricians while others love being podiatrists. Some teachers find that they are better teachers of low level kids, and others find that they are better at teaching high level kids—AND THAT’S OKAY!!! That’s good, in fact. I do not deal well with discipline problems. I am too nice and HATE to have to constantly get on to kids or tell them to wake up. One of my best friends, across the hall, hates teaching upper level and loves teaching the low levels. We both work equally as hard. AP classes are HARD WORK. You will teach your rear end off every day, there is much more grading, and you have to teach on a much deeper level. Ideas like this, although I certainly understand why people who have never taught would come up with this idea, are VERY counter productive. There is a trend in education because of “No child left behind”- which is also a crock, to put the majority of our efforts onto the lower level kids, leaving our upper level neglected. Perhaps this is why we have dropped in our performance. These upper kids are the ones who usually pull our scores up and now we are leaving them out in education. This is the real failure. We are failing our upper students who WANT to learn because we are beating our heads against a brick wall trying to FORCE the lower ones to care. Why can’t people be honest? This IS a free country, full of opportunites. BUT, those opportunities include the bad. So, if you choose to do your work, work hard, and try, your opportunities are many. If, however, you choose to sleep during class, turn in tests incomplete, not try, not care—you fail. When you get out of school, if you choose to work, you will be paid, therfor you will be able to buy things you want/ need. If, however, you choose to sit at home on your rear end, you choose to get no money and starve to death!!! No food stamps or welfare which is just crap. All of those things have done nothing but make people lazy. Don’t get me wrong- I have NO PROBLEM helping people who CAN’T help themselves. But, I get tired of seeing people in front of me in the grocery line buying the same food I am paying for with my low teacher pay, but they get it for free because THEY CHOOSE NOT TO WORK, or because they chose not to do well in school and now can’t get a job. Also, to top it off, they pull cash out of their pocket to pay for the cigarrettes and beer! If they would use that money to buy their food they might not have to get food stamps—OHHHH SO IRRITATING!
Anyway- very long response, but grow up people. The answer to our education problems are to be mature, admit the real situation, and hold the students accountable for their performance, hold the teachers responsible for their own performance, and stop giving kids excuses for failing. i.e. you failed BECAUSE your teacher was bad—what a crock. There may be some bad teachers, but for the most part we are doing the best we can with what we have for way less money than we deserve.