Georgia math students stymied by accelerated pace and complex concepts expected in high school
One of the most well-informed group of posters on this blog has been parents and teachers concerned over the state’s new methodology for teaching math. I am eager to hear their comments on the statewide End of Course test results for Math II.
Only 52 percent of the students who took the End of Course Test for Math II in May passed, the state recently reported. Many students in metro Atlanta schools who took the tests squeaked by with barely passing grades, earning modest average scores of C’s and D’s for their districts.
The freshman class, meanwhile, fared somewhat better on the Math I End of Course Test, with 64 percent passing.
The benchmark scores reflect what several educators and parents have been saying all along: The new math curriculum, souped-up to get teens competitive for college, is leaving some students in the dust.
Tamela Cosby, an Atlanta Public Schools high school teacher, said only 20 percent of her ninth- and 10th-graders passed the final. They also struggled with the material in class.
“Since the course is a little difficult for the students, it’s not enough time to teach to mastery,” Cosby said. “They are not really understanding the material. For a lot of them, it’s the reading comprehension. They are not understanding what is being asked of them. It’s not just two plus two, there are word problems. They are not used to thinking in that aspect.”
About 80,000 teens statewide failed final exams in Math I and Math II in May.
Students in Cobb, Fulton, DeKalb and Gwinnett schools earned a C-average for their district on the Math II End of Course Test. The lowest marks went to Atlanta Public Schools and Clayton County Schools, sharing a D-average on both Math I and Math II End of Course Tests. Two more affluent districts at opposite ends of the metro area — Forsyth and Fayette — rose to the top of the class, however, with students earning the equivalent of B’s on both Math I and Math II exams.
Kelly Price, a curriculum coordinator in Forsyth, saw her district do well, but she understood the challenges.
“Some students were good at the other way of doing math because all they had to do was memorize and regurgitate,” she said. “They never applied or understood, but they were good at spitting it back out. Now, we are asking them to put the pieces together. That is a whole different level of demonstrating mastery.”
The state Department of Education is optimistic that math scores will improve over time as teens adjust to the accelerated pace and get more familiar with complex concepts in algebra, geometry and statistics, which are being taught to students sooner than ever before. They see the end goal of dramatically improving state SAT scores and churning out classes of grads able to compete globally for jobs and admission to top colleges without remediation as within Georgia’s reach.
“We have to have well-educated students no matter what they are going to do after high school,” said Janet Davis, math program manager for the state DOE. “Our students have to be mathematically able to function in a 21st-century society. They are going to have to be problem solvers in a very different world.”
Beginning with the Class of 2012, every student must pass four years of math to receive a college prep diploma even if he or she plans to attend a technical school or enter the work force after graduation.
Some teens on the path to graduation got off to a shaky start. About 39,400 students failed the Math II End of Course Test, which accounts for 15 percent of their grade. About 40,600 students failed the Math I End of Course Test.
For the failing and near failing, help could soon be on the way. The state may allow some struggling math students to take an emergency break to keep them from veering off course toward a timely graduation.
State math officials have asked the Board of Education to consider a measure at their August meeting that will allow low-performing students headed for Math III — an Algebra II and statistics course – to instead take the slower Math III support class full time to meet their third-year requirement. Support classes for struggling students, taken in concert with math courses, spend more time on explaining complex math lessons. They were designed to help students be more successful at passing math core classes.
“This is a bridge measure we could put in place for the first two graduating classes instead of continuing to push them on into Math III,” Davis explained. “Our goal has always been to make sure that our students are learning the concepts at the most rigorous level possible, but not at the expense of our students.”
If successful at Math III support for the year, students could then take Math III senior year, Davis said.
If the state board approves the option, it could soon be extended to students across metro Atlanta where math final test scores were mediocre.
Despite her best efforts, even Donna Aker, a Gwinnett high school math teacher, said her daughter earned only a D in her Math II course with tutoring at school and at home from Mom. Aker said her own classes of Math I freshmen didn’t fare much better. Only about 60 percent of them passed the Math I course — with D’s, not A’s or B’s, as they tried to recall facts and formulas she says some may not even use after graduation.
“This is a true college-bound curriculum we are teaching — not all children are going to college,” said Aker. “I just don’t think that the one-size-fits-all approach is the way to go.”
It was a different story in Forsyth. Price said she is pleased with her district’s scores, adding that they will curb anxiety parents and students had about the state’s accelerated math program.
Price attributes Forsyth’s success to staff development and teachers sharing information on lessons that unlock the mysteries of math for struggling students. Math support also was used to help slower learners achieve better results.
Why are other students struggling in math? Aker, a 28-year veteran teacher and co-president of the Gwinnett County Association of Educators, says the math is aggressive and fast, which can intimidate slower learners; teachers are still learning the pitfalls of the curriculum, and they have to cover more ground.
Aker also said parents should be pushing their kids to work harder at home and at school.
Weisu Nugent of Atlanta says the new math curriculum will benefit students if they stick with it and study hard. She says her daughter, an 11th-grader at Druid Hills High, is soaring in accelerated math classes.
“If a child doesn’t have the habit of studying, when you reach a certain age, it gets more difficult,” she said. “It is hard for them to start high school math because when they reach high school, a lot of the kids don’t have a solid foundation. You have to practice every day.”
State officials predict that math final exam scores will climb. The new math curriculum was introduced to sixth-graders in 2005. The Class of 2019 will be the first to have had the accelerated math exposure from kindergarten through 12th grade.
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277 comments Add your comment
Previous HS Math Teacher
July 30th, 2010
7:42 am
First of all, DO NOT blame the teachers for these problems. The state of Georgia decided to follow the one other state in the country to implement this integrated cirriculum (thank you Kathy Cox, who is now no longer in office). When Math 1 rolled out in 2008, there was little support for the teachers. The state didn’t make proper textbooks and gave little instruction on how to implement these “tasks.” Teachers had to just figure it out on their own.
It is worse now that the schools have little money to work with because some schools can’t afford textbooks, not that the textbooks are even helpful (most of them are just pieces of the old textbooks put together to make a new one). The school that I taught at didn’t have any textbooks for Math 2 and wont have any for Math 3 either. How do you send a student home to work on an assignment without giving them something to refer back to other than notes?
The scores are bad because of a number of reasons. The content covered is harder than in the past and students are being required to remember way too much unrelated material in one class. The “technical track” is no longer in existance so all of the regular ed students are in the classes with mainstreamed special ed students as well as lower level learning students. In addition, the limit for the number of students allowed in each classroom keeps increasing so the distractions are numerous and prohibits the students who want to learn from doing so in a good environment.
I’m just interested in how high the drop out rate will go once these students (who are now required to pass four math classes) decide to just give up. I had one who was in Math 1 for the third time and still didn’t pass. So what now? The state isn’t going to admit they made a major mistake and wasted their money to bring back the old ways…
phil
July 30th, 2010
7:42 am
What have the two who are running for state superintendent saying about the new math courses? Are they for keeping it or replacing it?
john konop
July 30th, 2010
8:06 am
Georgia School Czar Flunks Math
Georgia’s State Superintendent of Schools, Kathy Cox, has imposed a dramatically changed high school math curriculum without properly reviewing it with teachers and parents. She is replacing the traditional structure (algebra I & II, geometry, Trig, Calculus with Math 1, Math 2, and Math 3). Her new mandate may be well intended–but the devil’s in the details.
Problem #1: Forcing all students to be “average”
There are currently four math tracks available to high school students. They vary in difficulty to accommodate a broad range of math abilities. Under Cox’s proposed change, freshmen, sophomores, and juniors will now only have two tracks (Math 1 and Advanced Math 1, Math 2 and Advanced Math 2…).
Big mistake. This minimalist offering will be too difficult for the lower rungs of math students (encouraging them to disengage) and too easy for the upper rungs (failing to adequately develop their abilities). Why institutionalize mediocrity?
Also, Cox spokesperson and Georgia’s math program manager Claire Pierce told me the new program was designed around gifted kids because Georgia was “having a problem with the gifted program”. That’s just not true according to Mark Smith, a Cherokee County school system employee assigned to review this math curriculum change. Mark pointed out that gifted kids from Cherokee County are doing great with admissions into top universities and colleges. It is, in fact, the lower end of the math students that are having the biggest performance issues.
Problem #2: Unrealistic goals for the students
Cox spokesperson Claire Pierce also told me that a goal of the new math program is to have 85% of students graduate having completed the equivalent of Algebra II. I believe this goal makes the same mistake as President Bush’s unpopular No Child Left Behind (NCLB) program: not all high school students should prepare for college. It is wildly unrealistic to expect that they should, and it damages the self-esteem of kids that would be better served by a vocational program.
Problem #3: Unrealistic goals for the teachers
I support high (yet realistic) expectations. But Kathy Cox’s unrealistic plan to graduate 85% of our high school students with the equivalent of Algebra II will destroy the morale of math teachers. Georgia’s high school classrooms face an explosion of immigrants with very poor English skills, pregnant teens, drug users, and kids with parents that don’t support academics.
Finally, Cox needs to double check her math–if currently 44% of Georgia’s high school students drop out and only 29% (nationally) graduate with math proficiency (which doesn’t include Algebra II), how can she possibly meet her 85% goal? The only way is to hide watered-down standards behind the vaguely titled Math 1, 2, and 3.
Problem #4: A rushed and careless policy
Cherokee County’s Mark Smith says Cox’s new math program hasn’t been reviewed with any colleges except those within Georgia’s state system. Meaning no one knows if or how colleges from other states will accept it.
The state has also failed address how to handle students transferring into Georgia public high schools. Since the new curriculum is mandatory, advanced students transferring into our systems could be forced to sit through math classes they have already mastered. The same holds true for middle school students who have taken advanced math courses.
What can we do?
In a time when America is falling behind other countries and Georgia ranks near the bottom in national education, we clearly need to revamp the system.
We should return to a system where some kids receive vocational training and others receive college preparatory training. Why dismantle the system set up by Cherokee County School Superintendent Dr Frank R. Petruzielo that lets the most gifted kids work at a faster pace than other college-bound kids?
Please contact Kathy Cox at (404) 656-2800 or state.superintendent@doe.k12.ga.us and tell her that all of Georgia’s students deserve a meaningful education, not just the average ones. You can also talk to her in person on Tuesday, March 13th at 7 PM in Canton, Georgia (click here for more information).
Dunwoody Mom
July 30th, 2010
8:06 am
So, what to do with the 48% who did manage to pass the Math EOCT?
AJinCobb
July 30th, 2010
8:08 am
Calls to “get back” to Algebra, Geometry and Trig overlook the fact that Math I, II, III consists of … most bloggers just won’t believe this … Algebra, Geometry and Trigonometry. Oh, with the addition of some Statistics – valuable to know in the modern world.
Claims by people who purport to have math degrees, or their purported nieces who are seniors at MIT that they never learned this stuff are … very surprising. Gosh, I learned polynomials, trigonometry, systems of equations, etc. (content of Math I, II, III) in high school in the early 70s. I can’t imagine how these math experts didn’t learn this material, or think it’s new or inappropriate for high school.
There’s also some material in Math I, II, III that I didn’t learn until college math, for example, Matrices. They’re also using graphing calculators in school nowadays. I gather many folk think computers are just fine (after all they’re blogging via computer), except in school apparently, where it’s “bring back the slide rule and the trig tables”, I guess.
The introduction of this new curriculum has been bumpy for the poor students (my child is class of 2012, so I’ve seen the fallout at first hand). I also have my doubts that the “one size fits all” idea is feasible. However, two things about the opposition to the new math curriculum really burn me, and they are:
1. Claims that the fundamental content is “new”. It’s not, of course. It’s the same high-school level math that’s been around for literally hundreds of years.
2. The way the Georgia DOE is dumped on continually for our state’s abysmal ranking on national measures such as SAT scores, yet, when they actually try to change things and make a bold effort aimed at moving Georgia to the forefront for a change, they get dumped on twice as much for having the temerity to change anything.
Maybe this hasn’t been a successful innovation over all. But it seems that in the public mind, the only thing worse than the status quo, is change of any kind. We’ll never have a winning education system with this attitude.
john konop
July 30th, 2010
8:09 am
Georgia School Czar Flunks Math
Georgia’s State Superintendent of Schools, Kathy Cox, has imposed a dramatically changed high school math curriculum without properly reviewing it with teachers and parents. She is replacing the traditional structure (algebra I & II, geometry, Trig, Calculus with Math 1, Math 2, and Math 3). Her new mandate may be well intended–but the devil’s in the details.
Problem #1: Forcing all students to be “average”
There are currently four math tracks available to high school students. They vary in difficulty to accommodate a broad range of math abilities. Under Cox’s proposed change, freshmen, sophomores, and juniors will now only have two tracks (Math 1 and Advanced Math 1, Math 2 and Advanced Math 2…).
Big mistake. This minimalist offering will be too difficult for the lower rungs of math students (encouraging them to disengage) and too easy for the upper rungs (failing to adequately develop their abilities). Why institutionalize mediocrity?
Also, Cox spokesperson and Georgia’s math program manager Claire Pierce told me the new program was designed around gifted kids because Georgia was “having a problem with the gifted program”. That’s just not true according to Mark Smith, a Cherokee County school system employee assigned to review this math curriculum change. Mark pointed out that gifted kids from Cherokee County are doing great with admissions into top universities and colleges. It is, in fact, the lower end of the math students that are having the biggest performance issues.
Problem #2: Unrealistic goals for the students
Cox spokesperson Claire Pierce also told me that a goal of the new math program is to have 85% of students graduate having completed the equivalent of Algebra II. I believe this goal makes the same mistake as President Bush’s unpopular No Child Left Behind (NCLB) program: not all high school students should prepare for college. It is wildly unrealistic to expect that they should, and it damages the self-esteem of kids that would be better served by a vocational program.
Problem #3: Unrealistic goals for the teachers
I support high (yet realistic) expectations. But Kathy Cox’s unrealistic plan to graduate 85% of our high school students with the equivalent of Algebra II will destroy the morale of math teachers. Georgia’s high school classrooms face an explosion of immigrants with very poor English skills, pregnant teens, drug users, and kids with parents that don’t support academics.
Finally, Cox needs to double check her math–if currently 44% of Georgia’s high school students drop out and only 29% (nationally) graduate with math proficiency (which doesn’t include Algebra II), how can she possibly meet her 85% goal? The only way is to hide watered-down standards behind the vaguely titled Math 1, 2, and 3.
Problem #4: A rushed and careless policy
Cherokee County’s Mark Smith says Cox’s new math program hasn’t been reviewed with any colleges except those within Georgia’s state system. Meaning no one knows if or how colleges from other states will accept it.
The state has also failed address how to handle students transferring into Georgia public high schools. Since the new curriculum is mandatory, advanced students transferring into our systems could be forced to sit through math classes they have already mastered. The same holds true for middle school students who have taken advanced math courses.
What can we do?
In a time when America is falling behind other countries and Georgia ranks near the bottom in national education, we clearly need to revamp the system.
We should return to a system where some kids receive vocational training and others receive college preparatory training. Why dismantle the system set up by Cherokee County School Superintendent Dr Frank R. Petruzielo that lets the most gifted kids work at a faster pace than other college-bound kids?
john konop
July 30th, 2010
8:14 am
This is the core issue a one size fit all approach to education verse letting students track toward their aptitude.
Friendly debate: A single academic track or multiple tracks?
http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2010/01/27/friendly-debate-a-single-academic-track-or-multiple-tracks/
Teacher&mom
July 30th, 2010
8:19 am
I have a son who will be going into Math III next year. He is LD in math and will be in the support class. The math support class has been the one bright idea that has come out of this new curriculum. It has allowed him time to work through the concepts. He passed the Math II EOCT with a 72. I assumed the DOE would offer a Math III support class each year. It never occurred to me that they did not initially plan to offer a Math III support class. What were they thinking??? I’ve talked with his math teacher and she told me that he will be earning a Math III credit and a support credit next year. After reading Mike Honcho’s post, I’m concerned that taking the support class may hinder his chances of getting into a college. Math is his disability but he is strong in the other academic courses.
I can’t believe the State BOE is waiting until August to make a decision. Why? I’d love to see someone interview the BOE members and ask them this question.
Dunwoody Mom
July 30th, 2010
8:21 am
My husband was Math major in college. After seeing the “new” Math curriculum over the last couple of years, his response was “Math is Math – this is just a different way of presenting it”. This is a man who has not taken a Math class in 30+ years, but could sit down and after a few minutes of review could understand and give guidance to our children with their homework.
ScienceTeacher671
July 30th, 2010
8:21 am
I surely would like to see these scores correlated to 8th grade CRCT scores.
Mike Honcho
July 30th, 2010
8:28 am
The change in the math 3 support class is only how we read it. We are not sure whether there will be a math 3 core support (the new class) as well as the expected math 3 support (similar to math 1&2 supports). That is what we would like clarification on. The new math 3 support class appears to be designed to review math 1 and 2 topics as well as introduce a few math 3 standards. I would like to know if the state is planning to offer both types of suppot classes. For the past 2 years the support class would match the math class in what topics are covered and when they are covered. It reads like the new math 3 support class will not do this. It sure would be nice to have some clarification on this before school starts.
Teacher&mom
July 30th, 2010
8:30 am
I also have a middle school student. The difference in his math experience and his older brother is night and day. They both had the same teachers. I think the difference is that the teachers are more comfortable with the material.
nutty shell
July 30th, 2010
8:31 am
Honcho hit all the points:
Math 3 SUPPORT will be the class most students will take in thier junior year. It will cover the begining 2 topics in Math 3 then simply review materials from Math 1 & 2. The course is nothing more than a GHSGT prep class. In thier senior year students will take Math 3.
Brain developement is another point; I have spoken with UGA professors and they have stated that exact item.
@catlady
true, if students moves into or out of GA they are not for a better word “screwed”. GA is a castaway island when it comes to Math 1234. We are not aligned with any other state.
Test scores are really worse than what we read. Remember before K. Cox left she changed the “CUT SCORES”.
An advocate for public education change & choice
July 30th, 2010
8:43 am
The EOCT stats combined with the on the ground analysis encapulized by partipants in this blog add up to one simple thing, this Math I,II,III system currently in place is ruining the quality of education for a whole generation of kids.
Who among the those responsible for overseeing this foolishiness has the courage to pull the plug on this failed experiment??
Old School
July 30th, 2010
8:47 am
Imagine what I-75 and GA 400 would be like if the GaDOE decided Drivers Ed should be taught as a discovery course.
Mike Honcho
July 30th, 2010
8:50 am
I believe the math 3 support class will the be class SOME students will take their junior year. It should support those students who are in danger of not passing the GHSGT. These students will take math 3 their senior year. Through this sequence, students will just have limited college choice. A 2-year college is not a bad place for students to start post-secondary education. The vast majority of students will take math 3 thier junior year and math 4 their senior year. Math 4 is basically a pre-calculus class.
An advocate for public education change & choice
July 30th, 2010
8:51 am
@ Previous HS Math Teacher: The sad part of your closing point is that we will ruin the lives of kids along the way to manifesting what your describing.
@ScienceTeacher671: I mean the State DOE officials would do this sort of statistical analysis in review of the effectiveness of this program over all right?
@ Teacher and Mom: Parents do a poor job of galvanizing their advocacy to hold both the State BOE and local board more accountable for the choices they are making which are robbing kids of opportunities they can’t get back again.
In closing to all I’ll say this, with Math scores like these one thing is for certain, the HOPE scholarship crisis may well be avoided because it seems the % able to qualify for it will drop significantly.
Maureen Downey
July 30th, 2010
8:52 am
@Dunwoody Mom, I had the same experience with two neighbors, who teach math at Georgia Tech and have three kids in public schools. When I asked them about the new math, they said almost the exact thing as your husband. They were not at all troubled by the new approach. They liked the integration of concepts. They did not see the new math as a great departure. They also noted that Georgia needed to improve its k-12 math as it had not been doing all that well with the old approach.
Maureen
Dunwoody Mom
July 30th, 2010
8:54 am
Maureen, the failure here by the GADOE was not incorporating this new approach beginning in elementary school. To just “throw it in” at the HS level was a bad decision.
catlady
July 30th, 2010
8:55 am
My perspective is that this mess starts back in first grade, when children are not required to master basic arithmetic facts. Year after year, we allow them to “rediscover” that 4+5=9, which hinders their ability to do any more advanced problems. Yet we pass them along. I’ve had 5th grade math push-in for 2 years now, and I would estimate 20% of the kids were ready, just in terms of arithmetic, to go on to 6th grade! When the math curriculum director says the kids need to be “exposed” to the concepts of 5th grade, THAT is the problem. When the math curriculum director expresses shock over the idea of holding kids back who don’t master basic facts, THAT is the problem. When the math curriculum director thinks a teacher can ameliorate 4 years of deficit in math by doing 20 minute “needs-based” grouping, THAT is the problem.
I shudder for the middle and high school teachers who are supposed to teach more advanced CONCEPTS to kids who have not mastered basic facts and procedures.
Reality 2
July 30th, 2010
8:55 am
Some random thoughts.
What happened to the third track of HS math that was originally included in the GPS?
When the cut scores for CRCT are set low or students who don’t pass the test get moved to the next grade, a lot of people complain. It’s bad parents, the test is invalid, blah, blah, blah. Now we have a high failure rate, and people complain that the course is bad.
If a course is bad, then why are some systems doing so much better than the others? People seem to be happy to criticize APS for other issues, but for this one, they are the evidence that the courses don’t work???
What exactly is a course? There is nothing that dictates how teachers teach – as someone shared the success of his/her friend who teaches these courses.
If anyone who claims to have had a math-related degree and can’t help their kids in these courses, then maybe that is the evidence that “old” math they received wasn’t that strong. This include those teachers who complain about not being able to teach the course. How successful have they been before – probably mediocre at best.
Are we complaining that these courses are too weak or too rigorous? Seems like we have both complaints floating around.
Frustrated
July 30th, 2010
8:57 am
After spending $1000 dollars for summer school and a tutor I feel like the school system has failed the students. Not every student will attend college so why not offer business math, bookeeping and such for those who can’t master the new math. Math teachers need to go back to teaching not directing.
Mike Honcho
July 30th, 2010
9:00 am
Maureen – Through your connections at the state doe, can you check to see if math 3 support will ONLY be offered as a core class? Several people are wondering if there will be a math 3 support (elective) for students who want to take math 3 this year.
Teacher&mom
July 30th, 2010
9:02 am
Maureen, could you also find out if students choosing to take the math 3 support option will be limited in their post-secondary choices. Will this affect their chances of going to college?
catlady
July 30th, 2010
9:04 am
Driver’s ed as a discovery course? How about food safety as a discovery course? Or electrical wiring as a discovery course? Brain surgery? Why limit ourselves!
Mike Honcho
July 30th, 2010
9:06 am
Teacher&mom – I do not believe 4-year colleges/universities will accept students who only comlete math 3. However, students can transfer into these schools from a 2-year college.
Focus Group
July 30th, 2010
9:14 am
This is off topic but maybe someone can lead me to the right place for support. I want to arrange a Graduation Ceremony for Clayton County Homeschool 2011 Seniors. Real Cap & Gown, not just a family gathering. CCPS will do nothing to bring those of us who have graduating homeschooler together so that we can plan such an event. Nothing but brick walls. Any ideas to make contact??
Teacher Reader
July 30th, 2010
9:17 am
I agree Catlady. Math in Georgia sucks from day one. Too many kids do not have the a strong grasp of basic addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, etc. We are introducing our children to too many topics and having them master nothing. This “new” math needs to go.
catlady
July 30th, 2010
9:23 am
Hair styling as a discovery course! Dentistry as a discovery course! Air traffic control as a discovery course! Haz/mat and bomb disposal as a discovery course! Let’s make a list to suggest to the BOE and Regents! I am going to laugh all day, Old School!
William Casey
July 30th, 2010
9:33 am
An earlier poster mentioned “brain development” as it applies to learning math. This is very important and shows up in math (and science to a degree) more than other subjects because of the PRECISION of the subject (one’s opinion has nothing to do with the right answer.) Research has shown that the human brain doesn’t fully develop until one’s early twenties. Also, 31 years as a teacher/coach/administrator has taught me that individual brains develop at vastly different rates, even if the individual aptitude will be the same at age 23. This is why grouping students by chronological age is a fundamentally flawed idea for organizing education.
I’m not well versed on the new approach to teaching math but it seems similar to what the social sciences went through in the 1970’s with attempts to implement “inquiry” learning based on the work of Edwin Fenton and others. Never gained much traction, though marvelously conceived. I suspect that the new math will recede into the “dustbin of history” for the same reasons: (1) it’s attempt to base all learning on thinking skills that many young brains aren’t yet capable of using (there’s a REASON why grad school classes are taught differently than 6th grade!) (2) it’s attempt to avoid the drudgery of rote learning by making “immediate relevance” the absolute highest positive value and organizing principle of learning. We teachers had a name for this— “students efficiently trading ignorance” because they neglected learning fundamental facts.
Final note on math. I believe that each individual has a specific tolerance for “abstraction” (knowledge unable to be verified by “real world” experience.) Just a theory. I reached mine in the third calculus class at GT in 1968. My son, a college math major, is nowhere near his. Most people reach this level much sooner. The new approach to teaching math seems to seek to overcome this with its “problem solving, integrated” approach. I don’t think it will work for most students for reasons having to do with the human brain. Happily, most people don’t NEED math skills beyond algebra in their daily life. But, life’s more fun with knowledge!
RBN
July 30th, 2010
9:42 am
This debacle is a testimony to a stubborn adherence to an elitist one size fits all philosophy by the former superintendent and trying to implement a dramatic curriculum change with no money for teacher professional development. The state department’s role out of all the new GPS was pathetic. Initial trainings focuseed on “unpacking standards” and never talked about the curriculum itself. Those folks were fired, but it was too late, no more money to train. Should be investigated for criminal fraud.
When social studies was pulled back for redo, reluctantly, Kathy pitched a fit and a political, not educational decision was made to stick with the math, even though indications were strong that it was at least as flawed as the social studies.
Meanwhile, 95% of 8th graders pass the CRCT? Even those on 4th grade level. The next Superintendent needs to clean house.
William Casey
July 30th, 2010
9:45 am
MAUREEN!!! I’m not a “flamer” but your citing GT math professors’ opinions is an example of the PROBLEM! What works at the collegiate level with that level of aptitude will NOT work in general education. My son, a math major at Georgia Southern, would say to struggling 9th grade math students: “just buckle down and learn it, you dummies!” He has a talent for math as do the people who design math curricula. But, their way of thinking doesn’t work for the vast majority of people who don’t have such aptitude.
Reality 2
July 30th, 2010
9:46 am
@ Dunwoody mom,
Elementary and middle school math ARE integrated – in the same sense as not divided into “numbers,” “geometry,” “data,” etc. as in the traditional HS math courses. So, 3rd grade math is just math 3. Mathematics IS, by nature, integrated.
Now, if you are talking about improving the quality of mathematics teaching at ES/MS level, that’s a whole different story – of course, the quality of HS math teaching hasn’t been that great, either.
Gwinnett Parent
July 30th, 2010
9:48 am
A few questions
1) Will the admissons director at a large out of state school(i.e.Duke,UVA,or Penn State) scratch his or her head when they see a transcript that says “Math 3″ instead of “Calculus”? Will the student that has mastered Math 3 have his or her application thrown to the bottom of the stack, because college admissions does not have the time to decipher what it is. When there are 1000’s of qualified applicants with transcrips that are easily understood, why would someone in college admissions spend time trying to equate Math 3 to traditional Math(Calculus or Trig)?
2) Is this why the highschooler working at the local Kroger’s cannot calculate 75% off on a $3.00 product ? (true story)
ASHLEY
July 30th, 2010
9:50 am
I agree with AJinCobb Math 1 ,2,3 sound like algebra, geometry and trigonometry to me. So what is the problem I to graduated in the 70s . Since all college-bound students must take the SAT these math courses are beneficial. The problem here is all students may not be college bound , Unless the next generation of students are all going to be stock analyst. engineers , accountants or the next einstein I think Algebra should suffice. Let’s face it all student aren’t geared for college. Techinical skills will always be needed . I don’t envision Wall street types repairing their own car or tycoons preparing a dinner menu or styling their own hair-do. I wonder how many cashiers know what sine and cosine are . Mathematics is great , but i think they need to learn the basic elements first . Saddenly alot of kids don’t even know to read on their grade level much less know what an hypotenuse is.
Dunwoody Mom
July 30th, 2010
9:52 am
@Reality – yes, I was really trying to say that improving Math at the ES/MS level was the more logical approach rather than just all of sudden changing the approach at the HS level.
constructivist
July 30th, 2010
9:52 am
@catlady,
What do you exactly mean by “discovery” method? You seem to have trouble with it, but I’m not sure what you mean by it.
By the way, constructivism and “discovery method” is really are really incompatible – people who claim so really don’t understand constructivism.
The bottom line is, no matter what you label you put on a particular teaching approach, there are some teachers who teach well and others who don’t. It’s the same with the so-called “traditional” approach, too.
john konop
July 30th, 2010
9:58 am
Gwinnett Parent,
The answer in most cases is they will take a student with the proper class over a Georgia kid taking Math 123. I am in the process now with my own kid and good schools are overwhelmed with applications. Also the math 123 program has bad stigma since it has failed in NY and Washington.
Concerned 1
July 30th, 2010
9:59 am
Do the taxpayers have any voice here? Follow the money…who is benefitting from the sale of textbooks, courses for teachers, software, etc. Who has the contracts for Georgia? Do they know that self promoting guy in Dekalb county? Did they get Ms. Cox her new job? Whatever…back to the trenches.
Maureen Downey
July 30th, 2010
10:08 am
Folks, I am on my final day of vacation, but am sending these questions — pulled from your posts — to DOE. Will post DOE’s responses when I get them. Maureen
admission counselor
July 30th, 2010
10:11 am
@ Gwineett Parent,
Well, Math 3 is not calculus, and neither Math 4 is. If students take AP calculus, it will show up as AP calculus in their transcript.
Admission office people aren’t stupid. They can easily understand that Math 1, 2, 3, and 4, simply means students completed required HS courses – whether it is labeled Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II, Pre-Calculus. Now that official title of the courses include some descriptions, all districts should be including those descriptors in the transcripts. For example, Math IV – precalculus-trignonoetry/statistics.
I am glad
July 30th, 2010
10:14 am
@ concerned,
I’m glad you are concerned, but they would have bought textbooks anyway as the change (more or less) coincided with the state’s adoption cycle. It’s just a matter of which book. Now any school system has a choice to buy books or not – with or without a new curriculum. There is nothing in the GPS that says we cannot use the old textbooks.
Moreover, a lot of complaints about “Frameworks” refer to the teaching materials the DOE created that are FREE to any teachers in any system. So, if they want to use those materials, they could have done so, too.
college prof
July 30th, 2010
10:19 am
From a college professor’s perspective:
If students complete Math 3, they are equivalent to completing Algebra 2. So, they are ok for non-math/science majors. If you want to go into a math/science field, you will have to start with a pre-calculus, which will probably means at least one extra semester.
If students complete Math 4, they are equivalent of completing Pre-calculus. So, if they choose to go into a math/science field, they start with Calc I. A lot of my colleagues will be happy if students come from HS ready to take Calc I.
If students want to go to a more highly considered schools like Tech, MIT, etc., they better take AP Calc (B/C preferred).
All of this assumes those courses are taught and learned well.
Lynx
July 30th, 2010
10:19 am
I wish people would stop saying things like “most people don’t NEED math skills beyond algebra in their daily life (sic).” and ” it (taking higher mathematics) damages the self-esteem of kids that would be better served by a vocational program.”
NEARLY EVERY ADULT USES HIGHER MATH EVERY DAY! Can you imagine a plumber who could not estimate the pipe size, material, and flow through capacity needed to repair your toilet? That’s the same math (done in one’s head) that mechanical engineers use. What about when you decide whether or not to pull out into traffic? That’s the old “if two cars are approaching each other at different speeds” word problem. And how much will my kids’ school clothes cost for school year if I buy them on sale? Yep, discounting and budgeting. How much flour and sugar am I going to need to quadruple that cupcake recipe for the bake sale? Proportions and ratios, one variable equations. If I want build a new cat scratching post for Felix, how much wood and carpet will I need? 3-dimensional geometry.
The point is, math didn’t come out of nowhere – it came from people needing a way to systematically describe and solve problems they faced in everyday life. The Pythagorean Theorem arose from the need to estimate wealth, which was measured in fields of grain (SQUARE fields) more easily. Calculus has roots in pratical needs, too, not just for culling pre-med students and distinguishing fields of engineering.
If you aren’t familiar with Montessori math – have a look. It is tactile in the lower grades, and teaches concepts as well as memorization. Designed for mentally disabled children, Montessori methods in mathematics through 8th grade have been very successful for gifted and “average” kids as well.
stephgob
July 30th, 2010
10:30 am
I feel sorry for the class of 2012 and beyond. Had this system been in place years ago when I was in school (c/o 2000), I would not have made it to where I am now. I was in gifted classes, but as is common with teenagers, homework was not my main priority. I failed a gifted math class my 10th grade year by only a point. Under the current system, that would have greatly changed my educational future. Instead, I went on to be near the top of my class in pre-engineering curriculum, and eventually graduated from Georgia Tech with an architecture degree.
Even the mathematically inclined students need breathing room sometimes. Even more so, the students who plan to go into the military to defend our nation and the students with technical or hands-on ambitions need support, they need proper curriculum, and they do not need to fall through the cracks, which is a potential inevitability of this situation.
Springdale Park Elementary Parent
July 30th, 2010
10:32 am
@HS Math Teacher, 1:47 am: we parents need to hear exactly this kind of comment. Thank you for giving us some insight into what really goes on.
To you teachers who really care: I believe many parents feel, as I do, that our community local is performing well (relative to most schools in GA) because of the teachers and in spite of the system. I regard our school as a little oasis in the desert that is APS, and feel it’s only the teachers who keep us from being swallowed up by that desert.
One teacher at our school (not my kid’s teacher) recently confided in me that, in her class last year, just two special-ed/IEP students (who did not have paras or other helpers because their parents didn’t know how to ask for them, and APS won’t supply this kind of help unless you force them to, practically at the point of a gun) and one student with severe behavior problems… combined to create an almost unworkable teaching environment for her and her other students.
I wonder if the other 15 sets of parents in that class know how adversely their own children were affected by the three children who disrupted class and consumed all the poor teacher’s time?
We have an IEP child, and are sympathetic to all parents who do. But we would never allow our child to consume such a disproportionate amount of a teacher’s time and energy that it held back the rest of the class.
Part of building effective classrooms is removing obstacles and disruptions, no matter what form they take. Hard to do — and heartwrenching, too, perhaps–but necessary.
cherokeemom
July 30th, 2010
10:33 am
To make a long story short, I pulled my daughter out of public school in Cherokee County and put her in private school in Alpharetta because of this entire issue with the Math curriculum. My daughter has a specific learning disability in Math, which I had to discover on my own through a privately paid psycho-ed eval, cause Lord knows the school wasn’t going to test her!
At any rate, the final straw in this debate occured when I tried to get permission for her to take Math Support on-line through the DOE’s on-line school so that she could have the extra elective free to take foreign language. She had a private tutor at home who was willing to teach/support the on-line class and so I contacted the County BOE for information on how to get approval for this class. After several e-mails back and forth, with the schools suggestion that she drop out of orchestra to free up an elective (this wasn’t an option for us because she plays violin, cello, guitar and eukelale and music is very important to her) the school called a meeting with myself and the chair of the Math department, SpeEd department, Guidance and Technology. I knew when I arrived at the school that it was an ambush, but it was important to me to fight for my daughters right to a fair and balanced education.
During the course of the meeting I was informed that Cherokee does not allow students to take any on-line class if the class is offered inside a school. So no on-line Math Support! I was also told that if she didn’t have four years of Math that she would not be eligible for college admittance to a four year school. I was also told that there would be no room in her schedule for her to take four years of math because she had to take required classes her senior year that she was unable to take during the first three years if high school because she had to have Math Support! (if you’re confused, join the club). Then they told me that maybe she should look into a technical school and be a dental hygenist because then she wouldn’t have to take Math in college!!!!! I kid you not! They’ve had my very bright daughter at their school for ONE semester and they’ve already decided that she should take four year college’s off her list and focus on a technical track!
Not only was I beside myself about their eager desire to pigeon whole my daughter but I was flabbergasted that they had not taken her entire psycho-ed eval into consideration before they passed judgment on her! Yes, she has a math disability, but she scored above average for all other areas of her eval. She’s a gifted writter and willingly reads Hemingway, Steinbeck, Broadstreet, Tolstoy and others! This isn’t a child who wants to be a dental hygenist. This child wants to be a linguist and eventually get a doctorate in International Conflict Managment! She may never reach that goal, but it’s our job as parents and educators to encourage our children to be whatever they want to be!!
After carefull consideration and after I felt I had exhausted all of my options, we decided to place her in private school starting this fall. She failed the second half of Math I (no surprise there) even with Math Support (which, strangely enough she got an A in) and a private tutor so we felt that it would be best for her to make up her .5 math credit through summer school at her new academic home.
Since they do not teach Math I,II, III or IV there, (they teach Algebra I and II, Geometry, Trig and Algebra III) they tested her on the first day of summer school to see exactly where she was at in correlation to their Math curriculum. After the testing was reviewed, the decision was made to put her into both the first sememster and second semester of Algebra I so that she ould be best prepared for Geometry in the fall. She’s had 8.5 hours of Math a day for the past three weeks and she’s making an A.! That’s the best grade she’s had in Math since third grade. (oddly enough, we moved to Georgia at the beginning of fourth grade).
I don’t understand why the BOE has so haphazardly thrown this curriculum at our teachers and our students. I don’t understand how they can continue to ingnore the long term ramifications that their decision will have on our kids and I really don’t understand why we seem so powerless in one of the most important aspects of our kids lives. Thanks to poor planning by the state and a school district unwilling to work with parents and students to do what’s best for their kids, my husband and I made a difficult choice to pull our daughter out of public school. This was a hard decision because we’ve had two other kids graduate from the same high school, not to mention all the friends that she will leave behind. I’m thankful that we had the financial ability to make this change, but that can not be said for many more parents who may be faced with the same issue!
stephgob
July 30th, 2010
10:36 am
Lynx – I totally agree that math is used every day… if the teachers weren’t expected to teach to the test, I think they could more appropriately teach math concepts as they will be used in the world. Context is everything, and with so much math shoved at the students so quickly “for the test,” they are missing the opportunity for realistic application exercises.
john konop
July 30th, 2010
10:40 am
Reality 2,
The answer is yes to both. My son is one of the top math students in the state. Cherokee, Cobb and North Fulton had a national ranked gifted math program that accelerated high level math students that was nationally ranked with the University system. They would start kids in 7th grade an Algebra 1 and by their senior year they could complete up to three years of college math at the college. This program yielded tremendous results and math 123 threw a wrench in the system and hurt gifted math students.
For the non math oriented kids it forces them to take math way above they need for a successful career. At the end all Kathy Cox did was increase to the drop-out rate problem and put major burden on the local schools system.
The truth is will all have different talents and this one size fit all No Child Left Behind concept will never work.
HS Math Teacher
July 30th, 2010
10:49 am
Stubborn pride and insulated, detached thinking at the DOE. Thanks for ruining multitudes of teachers’ careers and welfare of students who were subjected to this grandstanding experiment. You guys couldn’t pour pee out of a boot.