The GOP candidates for superintendent in debate tonight: Shed federal shackles. But do voters want liberation?
In watching the Atlanta Press Club debates tonight, I see little difference in the two Republican candidates for state school superintendent, John Barge and Richard Woods, making it a difficult decision for GOP voters next month.
Both oppose the federal Race to the Top grants, which has put them on the wrong side of the governor who very much wants the possible $400 million grant that will be awarded in September.
That is why Gov. Sonny Perdue has bypassed both men in favor of independent candidate Brad Bryant. The governor also appointed Bryant, a Republican attorney and a state school board member, interim superintendent to fill the final six months of Kathy Cox’s term.
Woods and Barge both favor cutting ties with the federal government, even to the extreme of rejecting federal education dollars. A Bartow County schools administrator, Barge said the federal government has “shackled” Georgia teachers. An Irwin County administrator, Woods said the federal government is responsible for the testing mania that has grabbed hold of classrooms.
But I cannot imagine that many parents would favor severing all ties with the U.S. Department of Education or turning down federal dollars. Many parents want to see their kids keeping up with their counterparts in Massachusetts and Iowa. They want national benchmarks. They want some oversight of state schools, particularly transplants who come here with a wariness of Georgia education quality.
I do not think many Republican middle-class parents have enough faith in the education institutions overall here to endorse Georgia becoming an island, operating on its own without any federal intervention or involvement. I can see revolt from the former New Yorkers now living in Alpharetta if the state DOE announced that it would become the only arbiter of how well Georgia schools and students were doing.
One odd part of the debate was when the candidates were allowed to ask each other questions. Woods went first. Rather than using the opportunity to highlight a weakness in his opponent, Woods asked Barge to detail his 19 years of experience in education, thus creating a chance for Barge to share his credentials in detail.
Barge, on the other hand, used his question to Woods to point out that Woods’ education experience has been confined to a 1,700-student rural district.
Anybody else watching the debates?
If you ask me, I suspect the middle-class metro surburban GOP vote in November will go to Bryant.
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93 comments Add your comment
Unbiased
June 28th, 2010
9:46 am
IF (big if) Bryant makes history and gets on the ballot in November, don’t you think he will split the Republican vote giving the Democrats or possibly the Libertarians the win in the election?
Maureen Downey
June 28th, 2010
9:47 am
@Unbiased, I think that is a hurdle, although my understanding is that the campaign could resort to a service that does this for $3 or so per signature. I would suspect that the campaign might get an infusion of case to enable it to resort to a service, if necessary.
Maureen
Maureen Downey
June 28th, 2010
9:49 am
@Joel, I agree, although as a poster noted, the moderator jumped in quite a bit on the GOP debate to prod the candidates to speak more. I think we saw some of the inexperience last night of the candidates in their responses to questions and their failure to capitalize on opportunities to expand their responses. I was surprised by the brevity of the responses on the GOP side and the focus on Martin on the Democratic side. (As a longtime debate watcher, I think it is dangerous to focus on your opponent’s weaknesses rather than your own strengths. )
Maureen
Unbiased
June 28th, 2010
9:54 am
@ Maureen
If I remember what I read correctly, Boyd and Norwood both used a signature gathering service similar to what you mentioned and still failed. Should be interesting to see how this plays out.
IF (big if) he gets the required number of signatures, it will be interesting to see how quickly and forcefully the other parties challenge those signatures to keep him off the ballot. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Republicans challenge the signatures as well to keep him from splitting their vote.
Unbiased
June 28th, 2010
9:56 am
@ Maureen
Boyd and Norwood both used signature gathering services (if I remember correctly) and both failed to get nearly enough to get onto the ballot.
IF (big if) Bryant gets enough signatures, expect the other parties to challenge each and every one as bogus to keep him off the ballot. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Republicans challenge them as well to keep him from splitting their vote. Should be interesting.
Maureen Downey
June 28th, 2010
9:58 am
@Unbiased. Don’t you think the blessing of Gov. Perdue makes Bryant’s task easier?
Maureen
kindergarden math
June 28th, 2010
10:04 am
How much time does it take , out of a 60 second response, to state ” 20
: 1 for k-4, and 24 : 1 for 5-12,” or whatever number they wanted to plug in ? They were afraid to give the answer to the question because they did not want to offend teacher groups. How lame is it to wring your hands over how critical callss size is, but too gutless to say what you think is the appropriate raitio ? How many people even realized that they all three dodged the specific the question ?
A Choice
June 28th, 2010
10:08 am
@Joel,
What you say is exactly what Kira Willis says about federal money and federal mandates.
http://www.willisforsatesuper.com
Unbiased
June 28th, 2010
10:08 am
@ Maureen
Of course it makes his task easier. Perdue’s blessing PLUS the AJC’s blessing and biased coverage of his candidacy make his task much easier.
Regardless of who gives blessings to whom, history is against him on this one. Better candidates with stronger, more respected endorsements have historically failed when going the signature route.
Should be fun to watch though.
A Choice
June 28th, 2010
10:09 am
@Maureen,
I find it refresing that these candidates, with the exception of Joe Martin, are not career politicians. All of them know education, but only two know what it is like to be in the classroom recently: Willis and Westlake.
Maureen Downey
June 28th, 2010
10:15 am
@unbiased, I do want to tell you that the “biased” coverage that you cite reflects Bryant’s long relationship with the press and his willingness to engage on thorny issues. If you called Brad Bryant two years ago on Clayton, he called you back. He talked about the tough problems in the county. He sent thoughtful e-mails, not only talking about what reporters had written but suggesting questions he thought needed to be examined. And that was long before he decided to run.
Again, I can’t pretend not to like Brad Bryant. In my dealings with him, he has always been honest, sincere and eager not only to share his insights, but interested in what others were thinking. (It is no small feat that John Trotter came on the blog to say he liked Brad.)
I never saw him as a candidate for public office; I regarded him as one of those dedicated volunteers — ala Ann Cramer — who keep slugging away at the problems facing our schools.
But I am not naive about whether he or any other independent candidate can win. I think he will have more support than any other independent in state history from the powers that be, but I also see voters outside of metro Atlanta seeing that strange ballot placement and moving onto either the Republican or Democratic candidate.
Maureen
Maureen Downey
June 28th, 2010
10:19 am
@A Choice, IN theory, I would agree with you, but in reality, we are electing someone to run an $8 billion empire and navigate through a political maze to get anything done.
Kathy Cox came to the job with a stint in the General Assembly, but I think the politics of the job even overwhelmed her at times.
There are some great reporters at the AJC. I am not sure they could take over as publisher tomorrow.
Maureen
A Choice
June 28th, 2010
10:28 am
@Maureen,
So better to have someone who has NEVER been in the classroom (Martin and Bryant); someone who only spent three years in the classroom(Fahroki); someone who sits in a needless downtown position passing on the ridiculous state and federal mandates to the schools (Barge and Woods)? Why would the voters want someone who knows nothing about what is happening in real public schools and probably hasn’t set foot in a public school? Where did Brad Bryant’s kids go to school?
PhilB
June 28th, 2010
10:37 am
Hear the Georgia School Superintendent candidates:
Republicans John Barge and Richard Woods
http://www.statesboroherald.com/multimedia/1489/
Democratic candidate Beth Farokhi
http://www.statesboroherald.com/multimedia/1481/
Democratic candidate Joe Martin
http://www.statesboroherald.com/multimedia/1480/
Libertarian Kira Willis and Democrat Brian Westlake
http://www.statesboroherald.com/multimedia/1495/
catlady
June 28th, 2010
10:45 am
Are we willing to fund the federally-mandated things, like sped, ourselves?
Wonderin'
June 28th, 2010
10:49 am
Are you a blogger or a reporter? Because it seems as though you are mixing your personal opinion with the news.
mum
June 28th, 2010
10:51 am
Those who don’t want federal funding should look at New Hampshire where taxes are lower but property taxes needed to be raised significantly to pay for schools. It’s easy to talk about not taking the money, which is our money anyway, but nobody has stated where they would get the funds to support education. How many private schools would you start and how would you educate those kids they choose not to take when you present the vouchers? Who pays for those vouchers? You have to have standards set by someone because you can’t leave it completely up to the state since politicians only look to the next election when making decisions.
Maureen Downey
June 28th, 2010
11:10 am
@Wonderin,
The blog is part of the Opinion channel here at the AJC. So, I provide opinion. I came to this blog after writing opinion for 12 years on a variety of topics, including education. (I also wrote about juvenile justice, women’s health, guns, predatory lending and child welfare.)
Maureen
Maureen Downey
June 28th, 2010
11:10 am
@A Choice, Linda Schrenko and Kathy Cox both had classroom experience and little management experience. Schrenko left the place in shambles and wasted $50 million on a student information system. She hired her pals for top jobs, even though they had no education experience. Despite her detractors here, I think Cox left the place in decent shape and she made some great hires. So, teaching experience is not decisive in whether a person can lead DOE.
Let me note that there are major urban systems that are not run by former teachers and they are doing well. And you can look at the corporate world to see successful CEOs who never worked in the industry they are leading. You can also see CEOs who did work in the industry and they run the company into the job.
It’s a gamble, no matter who runs the show.
Maureen
What do the voters want? Mediocrity
June 28th, 2010
11:22 am
The question that hasn’t been asked, that needs to be asked:
What policies do you support, that will have a direct, tangible effect on empowering the classroom teacher to hold students accountable for both behavior and academics, and what mechanisms do you support to make administrators and school systems accountable for following it?
Until we ask this question, and demand an answer for it, and demand that answer be implemented, aren’t all we are really doing is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic?
As long as we continue to bury our heads in the sand on this issue, as long as we insist on believe boondoggles like No Child Left Behind or Erase to the Top are going to fix it, we will continuing to have a dysfunctional mess masquerading as quality education.
But based on what you read on this blog, or more to the point what you don’t read, it appears to be exactly the way we want it.
Stating the obvious
June 28th, 2010
11:34 am
There are some great reporters at the AJC. I am not sure they could take over as publisher tomorrow.
Maureen
Of course they couldn’t. Not without some extensive prep work from EduPAC on how the editorial board covers, or more to the point, doesn’t cover, certain educational issues.
Tom Mc
June 28th, 2010
11:51 am
Voting GOP for anything school related is like a snake voting for a mongoose…why let the enemies of public education have any control over it?
Please mum
June 28th, 2010
11:55 am
“You have to have standards set by someone because you can’t leave it completely up to the state since politicians only look to the next election when making decisions.”
And mum, you think federal politicians are better at not looking at the next election when making decisions? You think federal educrats conduct themselves with more integrity?
You might want to look at who Obama just nominated for an education position; the person at the helm during the largest cheating scandal any school system has had in Georgia’s history, which is right up there with Bush’s appointment of Rod “Houston Miracle” Paige.
Please mum, you’re going to have to do better than that.
@Tom Mc
June 28th, 2010
11:59 am
And you trust the Democrats Tom Mc, after Obama just nominated the person at the helm of the school system with the biggest cheating scandal in Georgia’s educational history to a federal position?
With friends like that, does public education need any enemies?
@Tom Mc
June 28th, 2010
12:06 pm
Tom Mc, voting GOP for anything school related may be excatly like a snake voting for a mongoose, but the problem is, voting Democrat for anything school related is like voting for an alcoholic to have the keys to the liquor cabinet.
Stating the obvious
June 28th, 2010
12:12 pm
“Of course they couldn’t. Not without some extensive prep work from EduPAC on how the editorial board covers, or more to the point, doesn’t cover, certain educational issues.”
Now this would be the time you would want AJC editor Andre Jackson to come on here with a spirited rebuttal about how he, just like the late Hosea Williams, is unbossed and unbought.
But then, he’d have to explain how, in the midst of the largest cheating scandal in Georgia’s educational history, he has written but one extremely tepid editorial, and had zero comment since this year’s devastating test scores from the schools that cheated came out.
I guess he’s better off being silent on the issue and being thought of as a fool, than coming on here to explain himself and removing all doubt.
@ @Tom Mc
June 28th, 2010
12:38 pm
And you trust the Democrats Tom Mc, after Obama just nominated the person at the helm of the school system with the biggest cheating scandal in Georgia’s educational history to a federal position?
Noooo that is wrong! She is going to work for a private organization and not a federal position.
@Tom Mc
June 28th, 2010
12:41 pm
Tom you’re wrong. If she was going to work for a private organization, the Senate wouldn’t have to confirm her appointment.
An advocate for public education change & choice
June 28th, 2010
1:03 pm
@ A Choice: You posed a great question.
Personally, I don’t think having extensive recent or former classroom teaching experience is necessarily THE priority element of the professional skill set required for this job. In fact I would argue that when you look at the battery of support the State Sup can call upon when making decisions one could say is it may be the least.
Therefore, I submit to you better in this case to have someone who has never been in the classroom (Bryant and Martin) provide they are rock solid in their poltical savvy and fiscal mgmt acumen. This job requires a strong Executive Mgmt type, not a world class teacher.
An advocate for public education change & choice
June 28th, 2010
1:08 pm
@ Mum: If you want a picture of what a school voucher system would look like in GA, take an objective look at the history of the Hope Scholorship program in GA and will like come real close.
A Choice
June 28th, 2010
2:25 pm
@Maureen,
Linda Shrenko, Democrat, was a crook.
Kathy Cox, Republican, was a hand puppet for Perdue. Clearly the two major parties were disasters for our schools. Both ladies were also career politicians, albeit failed ones. Why not a teacher who has been in the classroom both before and after the implementation of NCLB and who is not interested in a political career?
catlady
June 28th, 2010
3:38 pm
I don’t think we need a “world class” teacher, but a someone who has been a teacher RECENTLY and knows that school now in few ways resembles school 10 years or more ago. In fact, schools of today would have been virtually unrecognizable when I was in school, from the sheer numbers of students, to the student characteristics, to the behavior, to the demands for “individualization” and “differentiation,” to the technology, to the lock-step of the curriculum, to the proliferation of “support staff,” to the expectations of schools performing parental responsibilities. If you think, as many do, that school now is like school when you came through, YOU ARE DEAD WRONG!
Will I find a candidate who meets this criterium? Probably not. Because I also am looking for someone with a backbone who knows how to educate the leadership, both executive and legislative.
Maureen Downey
June 28th, 2010
3:47 pm
@A Choice, Linda was a Republican as well. (There are Democrats in state government who are crooks. She wasn’t one of them.)
Maureen
A Choice
June 28th, 2010
4:06 pm
@ Maureen,
I stand corrected. From my standpoint, there is a lot of corruption and crookery (new word…think strategery) in politics from both aisles. Hence the need for someone who is not a career politician.
Bubba
June 28th, 2010
5:33 pm
How about voting for the best candidate regardless of party affiliation?
Compared the the featherweights with whom we are left in the Republican Primary, those of us who really care about quality public education in Georgia should get off our partisan high horse and seriously consider a Democrat this time, Joe Martin, a businessman who has a successful track record managing big, complex things.
- Served in Vietnam as a captain in Army intelligence, received Bronze Star.
- Education: Vanderbilt, Harvard MBA in finance
- successful business career that has centered on the development of major public-private real estate projects
- President of the Atlanta Economic Development Corporation
- President of Central Atlanta Progress.
- coordinated community improvements related to the 1996 Olympic Games.
- 20 years on Atlanta Board of Education, winding up as president of board
- played a key role in writing the Quality Basic Education Act
- Executive Director of the Georgia School Funding Association
- His wife is President of Atlanta Habitat for Humanity
A Choice
June 28th, 2010
5:37 pm
Catlady, please check out Kira Willis. She’s a tough cookie.
Wounded Warrior
June 28th, 2010
6:17 pm
those that can do. those that can’t teach.
E for educators
June 28th, 2010
7:16 pm
@Wonderin’ I was thinking the same thing. Is this how a non-partisan subject is handed in the Georgia press? It seems that lawyers, businessman, or a military person are the only ones qualified to be mention in this article. How about someone that has been recognized as an educator in the Education system nationally as well as locally for over 30 years? No room to mention this because of the extreme bias.
And yes, Transplants do worry about the quality of education in Georgia since their national ranking is not one at or near the top. Business as usual does not appear to be the solution to changing this ranking either.
@ Maureen I wish you covered this important subject with a fair voice mentioning the pros and cons of each candidate during the debate. Half a picture always cast distortions that never ring true but provide great false illusions of the truth and facts related to this issue.
AJinCobb
June 28th, 2010
7:21 pm
Northern transplant here. Maureen has me pegged for sure. I feel far safer with national standards and federal involvement than with the idea of entrusting my child’s education to the state of Georgia going it alone. Please no!
No you didn't Bubba
June 28th, 2010
7:42 pm
Bubba you really didn’t come on here and tell people to vote for Martin because he was a board member for APS did you?
Northview (Ex)Teacher
June 29th, 2010
8:51 am
While it MAY be that all repukes are not stupid (although this seems questionable to me), no one could deny that all stupid white people are repukes.
SouthGA Teacher
June 30th, 2010
8:33 am
First, the idea of turning down federal money all together by either Republican candidate will not happen. Get real, we need that money. Second, Maureen there are more people in Georgia than just the people in metro-Atlanta. Hey Maureen, there are actually literate people in South Georgia that read your left-wing column. As for your golden boy Bryant, he’s just a newer puppet for Perdue. Cox’s strings broke when she filed bankruptcy. Martin has no classroom experience. Barge only spent around five years in the classroom. Woods, although from rural South Georgia, will get my vote. He has extensive amount of time in the classroom. Do I wish for someone better? Of course I do, but I will not vote for some businessman(Martin) who seems to have verbal diarrhea everytime he mentions his resume.
New Blood Needed
July 1st, 2010
3:17 pm
http://www.willisforstatesuper.com