What are the CRCT scores looking like this year?
I have been getting a lot of calls on state CRCT scores — which have now been sent to the systems by the state Department of Education — asking why some systems have not yet told kids who must take retests because they failed.
One system that I’ve been getting calls about is APS, where teachers have said that they have not been told how their students did and which ones will need retesting and perhaps summer school. Not sure why a system would delay notification unless they have a lot of kids who need retesting and have to get accommodations in place before alerting them.
But I noticed someone posted on the blog this weekend about an Atlanta middle school seeing a drop in its scores, so perhaps APS now has released its scores at some schools. I talked to folks at elementary schools Friday who said they have not heard anything.
Speaking of APS, some folks are predicting principal changes, perhaps owing to the CRCT findings. (For those new to the issue, APS had a lot of schools flagged in a state-ordered analysis of erasures on score sheets on the state exams. The systems with unusual erasure rates of wrong to right were asked to conduct investigations and turn their results into the Governor’s Office of Student Achievement. APS has until early June to submit its results.)
What are your CRCT scores this year?
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110 comments Add your comment
dbow
May 23rd, 2010
8:27 am
The CRCT was suspiciously easy this year. I had kids exceed that honestly had no business passing the thing. Kids that could barely read scoring in the 880’s. and ditto for math. I’m not a magician so I know it wasn’t all my teaching. What gives?
just browsing
May 23rd, 2010
8:57 am
Scores were up at my school.
Teaching in FL is worse
May 23rd, 2010
9:01 am
I agree 100% with dbow. I teach special ed. I posted previously that I felt something was fishy.
teacher/learner
May 23rd, 2010
9:01 am
same here – I teach first grade and had kids who are NOT reading end of 1st grade level texts, but have really good comprehension, EASILY got scores over 800. Additionally, one child who barely reads end of Kindergarten level texts independently (though is quite smart), slept through part of the Reading CRCT, left some answers BLANK…still scored above 810!
We had to sign a statement that under penalty of losing our certification, we cannot reveal any of the specific test questions and possible answers…some of the test items/answers were ludicrous! On the Math CRCT, some content was repeatedly in test items. And, despite the DOE repeatedly saying that this year’s Math test would have more Level 2 Depth of Knowledge questions…it was ridiculously easy. My little kids know SOOOOO much more about reading and thinking, about how stories and informational texts work, about place value, solving problems with those understandings…and no one is interested. Shameful situation. At least the 1st and 2nd grade kids won’t be subjected to hours and hours of sitting as well as the anxiety produced by the “test” next year. Just nervous though about what might be the replacement….
dbow
May 23rd, 2010
9:06 am
Not trying to sound like a conspiracy nut, but what a great way for Cathy Cox to end her tenure as superintendent of schools. If scores on the CRCT are way up all over the state, she can claim her initiatives where successful and by default so were Sonny’s. If it walks like a duck, it must be a duck.
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Fericita
May 23rd, 2010
9:42 am
I believe students only need to get 50% of the questions right to pass the reading section, and 45% of the questions right to pass math. Obviously, kids who aren’t doing grade-level work can pass tests with that low of a bar.
In Cobb County, we have been teaching “remediation” (the summer school curriculum) to the students who were in danger of failing since the CRCT was over in April. The kids who failed took a retest the last week of school. This was in order to bypass summer school, which the county apparently has no money for. I wonder how APS will address failures? My understanding was that before a child takes a retest, the state mandates that they have to have a certain number of hours of remediation.
Devil's Advocate
May 23rd, 2010
9:47 am
Since the CRCT is such an easy, basic skills test, why do so many teachers constantly complain about the pressure of passing it? I have found that it’s so easy that I can get students ready in about half the time I have,and the other half can be used for developing more important skills.
Makes you wonder about the competency of some of those that constantly carp about “standardized testing”.
dbow
May 23rd, 2010
9:49 am
I was told that the cut scores weren’t lowered, but who could actually verify that statement? Baloney sandwich anyone?
HS Teacher
May 23rd, 2010
10:22 am
Question for elementary and middle school parents/teachers: If a student fails a subject test in a non high-stakes year (e.g. Math in 6th grade), does he/she still have to retake the test?
dbow
May 23rd, 2010
10:24 am
I was told by my admin that even though several of my students have failed 4 or more of their courses included core subjects, they’re being moved on because they passed the CRCT, albeit barely. Ok.
Duh??????
May 23rd, 2010
10:35 am
@ HS Teacher- No the child does not have to retake the test, but their data from the test should be used to guide instruction the next school year.
Maureen get on the case!
May 23rd, 2010
10:43 am
Way too many disturbing reports about cut scores, and about how many people found the tests to be much easier this year.
Maureen, three tasks.
What are the cut scores?
Are the tests in fact easier?
And the big question, could this have been done for political protection of Cox, and her administrative friends in the school systems, to reduce political fallout of the cheating?
Don’t let them use the excuse the CRCT can’t be revealed Maureen, when you try to find the truth about the rigor of this year’s tests.
If you’ll recall Maureen, the year Cox inflated test scores by lowing the cut score to 41% Cox’s excuse was the test was more difficult. But the AJC was able to get someone to independently verify that more than 90% of the number of questions you needed to get right to pass were of the lowest level of comprehension.
Let the Open Records Act be your friend Maureen. Let’s start pulling those emails, finding out who talked to whom, and what did they know, and when did they know it.
CRCT
May 23rd, 2010
10:55 am
if students fail the crct, do they have to retake it?
if studetns fail the crct, do they get a second chance to take it?
, do they get promoted?
CRCT
May 23rd, 2010
10:56 am
i love my repeating question, duh
ScienceTeacher671
May 23rd, 2010
11:09 am
Does the state seem to be taking longer than usual to send the official EOCT results to the schools? As of Friday we had not gotten ours.
Maureen Downey
May 23rd, 2010
11:45 am
CRCT, Students are retested. I believe the window is early June for schools to test again. As to promotions versus retentions, an AJC investigation last year found hardly anyone gets held back statewide as there is an appeal process involving the parent, teacher and principal.
Maureen
cricket
May 23rd, 2010
11:46 am
A second grade student of mine with an IRL equal to a kindergartner in the 3 month passed all three sections of the CRCT. I have 3 other students with IRLs equal to 2nd graders in the 6 month and higher, that failed all three parts. WTH?
Maureen get on the case!
May 23rd, 2010
11:53 am
Maureen what about the anecdotal reports the CRCT tests were much easier this year?
What about the rumors about the cut scores?
What is the AJC doing to find out the truth?
Devil's Advocate
May 23rd, 2010
11:58 am
@cricket – maybe the IRL (Individual Reading Level I’m assuming?) is not the whole story to academic performance?
cricket
May 23rd, 2010
12:06 pm
Devil’s Advocate: Okay… so enlighten me.
anyway…
An Explanation of Cut Scores:
On Criterion Referenced Tests a committee (usually consisting of educators, content area specialists, and state administrators) look at a battery of questions matched to the curriculum and for each question they determine if a “minimally competent” student in that subject area would get the question correct or incorrect. After all the items have been examined the committee’s recommendations are taken and used to create “cut scores.” These scores will mark the difference between a student who “Meets” standards or “Does not Meet.” As an example, a math test might have 60 questions with a cut score of 33. This would mean that a student who gets 33 out of 60 questions correct would “Meet” standards while a student who correctly answers 32 out of 60 questions would be classified as “Does Not Meet.” For Criterion Referenced Tests the State of Georgia commissions committees each year to set the cut scores for each assessment. The cut score for a given test might be different depending on the subject, grade, and year.
*Slightly more clear than mud but how do you measure clarity of mud anyway?
Devil's Advocate
May 23rd, 2010
12:23 pm
cricket – I just get sick of teachers who like to trot out their anecdotes to prove that EVERYthing is flawed.
Sometimes, an anecdote is just an anomaly, not an idicator that an entire system is wrong.
cricket
May 23rd, 2010
12:26 pm
Devil- what grade do you teach?
dbow
May 23rd, 2010
12:28 pm
Devil’s advocate, have you ever tried to hit a moving target with a bow and arrow where the sights were off? That’s what it’s like to get these kids to pass CRCT. The cut scores are never clearly defined and the questions are sometimes so ambiguous that you just never know if they’re going to be the ones that get removed.
another aps teacher
May 23rd, 2010
12:33 pm
Cut scores: 800=53% correct
829=70% correct
850=80% correct
When we were practicing for the CRCT with Georgia’s Online assessment questions I measured my students’ knowledge and previous performance on the actual test with the scores they were getting on the GOAS questions, and their performance was pretty consistent with their classroom performance. All this means is that if your students or your children come home with less than an 830 on the test then they are not really prepared to do grade level work with any consistency. I don’t know why this test is such a barometer of student preparedness when it is not a norm referenced test. I told my A and B students that they should strive to exceed, not pass. I will look better if all of my students pass of course, but the praise will be like ashes in the mouth if the cut score is any lower than it has been in previous years.
cricket
May 23rd, 2010
12:48 pm
“trot out their anecdotes”
Nothing I posted about the IRLs of students in my room compared to their CRCT scores was “anecdotal.” It was all based on non-subjective DATA.
Devil's Advocate
May 23rd, 2010
12:57 pm
5th
But you took 3 students to prove the flaws of an entire system. What about the 20-25 other students in your class where the “data” fit predicted outcomes well?
catlady
May 23rd, 2010
1:01 pm
I concur with those earlier posters. Scores were higher than expected. We had many kids who are way below grade level who passed the test. In fact, some of our lower-skilled ESOL kids also did well. I don’t know if it was that the test questions (we are not supposed to look at the test) were easier or the cut scores were lower, but we have all remarked that something was different. And, while we have worked very hard and supplied interventions to all who failed the test last year, it is hard to believe this much difference is real.
science teacher
May 23rd, 2010
1:14 pm
My science scores were disappointing. Some were no surprise – kids who were either transient, absent a lot, or put forth no effort at all this year. Others were surprising – some of my better students didn’t even pass. One of the teachers on my team asked the kids about it and they admitted that, after the math test, they were tired. They knew science and social studies didn’t count, and so they didn’t really try. They said that if a question was too wordy or too long to read, they guessed. If a question had a math problem in it, they guessed. If the question had a graph it in, they guessed…and this is the test we want to base merit pay on???
What I want to know is why won’t the DOE release the tests?? After I give a test in class, I do an item analysis to see which questions were missed the most. Then I determine possible reasons for the problem – was the question worded funny? Did the kids need more time with a concept? Were the distractors too similar to the correct answer? If I determine that either the test or instruction was flawed, I throw the question out. I always go over the test an explain these things to the students, and from their comments, I learn their misunderstandings. We aren’t given the opportunity to do that with the CRCT. FWIW, I used the GA OAS site – the the students told me that the questions there and on the actual CRCT were very different (not too mention several old questions from the old QCCs on there). I also saw little correlation between their practice test scores and their actual results. I think more information needs to be available for the teachers to be able to properly evaluate their instruction.
Seriously
May 23rd, 2010
1:45 pm
My kids did amazingly well.. the majority of them exceeded… but that just means the majority of them made an 80% or so… which isnt surpirsing.
Seriously
May 23rd, 2010
1:46 pm
surprising…
Tony
May 23rd, 2010
2:05 pm
A couple of clarifications:
1st – the only students who are retested are the ones who fail the high stakes tests at 3rd, 5th and 8th grades. 3rd grade high stakes test is the Reading portion only. 5th and 8th grades both require passage of reading and math. Students in these grades are retested on only the portion previously failed. No other CRCT grades are allowed retakes.
2nd – Each CRCT has items for field testing, usually 10 per test. These items do not count as part of the students’ grades. Yes, the percentage required to earn the “meets” designation or 800 scale score is relatively low. It is between 50%-55%.
Our scores have been back for about 2 weeks. We did fairly well in most areas and I do not think the test was suddenly extra easy this year. Most of my teachers reported that the children worked out problems, read passages carefully, and (most importantly) did not erase any marks.
The politicians and some educators are putting way too much emphasis on CRCT. It is a one time assessment that gives a limited perspective on what a students knows in relation to what was tested. Of course, there are those who automatically assume that CRCT is a fully valid means to determine teacher performance as well as student performance. However, I am of the opinion that it takes more than a multiple choice test to measure either of those factors.
It is very sad that our state leaders are putting so much emphasis on tests like this and not enough emphasis on the real aspects of learning. Our kids are being robbed of more learning than ever before all in the name of CRCT.
Baffled
May 23rd, 2010
2:43 pm
I concur with the previous posters. I was apprehensive about the testing. Questions did seem easier, not worth having stressed about it, preparing kids for months. Most of my students are average/below. Every last one of them passed, and about 75% exceeded. That includes the non-readers and those with IEP’s. Huh? But I see from this blog I’m not the only one wondering….
Fericita
May 23rd, 2010
2:43 pm
Devil’s Advocate, regarding your comment: “Since the CRCT is such an easy, basic skills test, why do so many teachers constantly complain about the pressure of passing it? I have found that it’s so easy that I can get students ready in about half the time I have,and the other half can be used for developing more important skills. Makes you wonder about the competency of some of those that constantly carp about “standardized testing”.
Speaking for myself only, I can say that I am annoyed by the pressure my administrators place on passing the CRCT. I’m in a Title I school with a high number of ESOL students, and I consistently have students who are several grade levels behind. My focus is on getting them to be able to read fluently, to enjoy reading, to build their background knowledge, and to have greater proficiency in English. I can’t do that if I’m being pressured to only give them reading passages and multiple choice answer choices along with them. I also can’t build their background knowledge in the ways that I want when I am told to drop teaching science and social studies in order to spend more time on math, reading, and English Language Arts. Most will learn more than a year’s worth of material while in my class, but that does not mean they are on grade level yet. So, I make no guarantees that I can get a student to pass the 5th grade CRCT when they come in to my class in August with a 1st grade reading level. I’m not afraid of teaching a year’s worth of material to students who enter my class on grade level – it’s making up a 4 year deficit in a year that presents a real challenge. I think adminstrators pressure teachers to teach only to the test at the expense of getting kids excited about books and learning.
cricket
May 23rd, 2010
2:47 pm
Devil’s wrote:
“But you took 3 students to prove the flaws of an entire system”
Huh?
I wasn’t trying to prove flaws in any part of the system. You jumped to that conclusion. My point was the 3 average students who failed must have put forth little to no effort on the CRCT due to the fact that it was easy enough for a practically illiterate student to pass. The other 16 students in my class met or exceeded expectations. One even had a perfect score on the reading part. My frustration is with the 3 students who CHOSE to bubble in answers at random not because they didn’t know the content or how to read but because they were too damn lazy to think!
DunMoody
May 23rd, 2010
2:51 pm
I agree with Tony. If the state of Georgia wants to compare itself with other states, then it should rely on a uniform test – such as ITBS – rather than its own cockamamie concoction. I for one am very, very tired of the school year getting interrupted at least TWICE for most grades for prep and administration of the test du jour, ITBS + CRCT + graduation tests + end of course tests (and then there are the college-bound SAT and ACT, the former administered to every kid, regardless of ability or ambition). The state DOE can’t decide which makes us look better, so we get to do them all.
The CRCT is a big snooze in our house, but that’s because I am very, very fortunate to have very capable kids. It’s a huge stress in many of our friends’ homes because they have children with learning challenges. Either way, it’s a waste of time.
cricket
May 23rd, 2010
2:52 pm
Devil’s wrote:
“But you took 3 students to prove the flaws of an entire system”
I wasn’t trying to prove flaws in any part of the system. You jumped to that conclusion. My point was the 3 average students who failed must have put forth little to no effort on the CRCT due to the fact that it was easy enough for a practically illiterate student to pass. The other 16 students in my class met or exceeded expectations. One even had a perfect score on the reading part. My frustration is with the 3 students who CHOSE to bubble in answers at random not because they didn’t know the content or how to read but because they were too damn lazy to think!
cricket
May 23rd, 2010
2:55 pm
Help Maureen! There is a cricket caught in the filter!
cricket
May 23rd, 2010
2:56 pm
oh never mind!
gruntor
May 23rd, 2010
3:01 pm
Cut scores vary both by grade and subject. They aren’t consistent across subjects in one grade, either.
I teach 6th grade, and know that the cut scores are less than 50% in some subjects, and greater in others. Those of you who have access to actual data released by the state can see how many questions a child got right out of how many possible. Find a child with an 800 score in an area, look at the total number right, divide by the number of possible right, and there’s your cut %.
RobertNAtl
May 23rd, 2010
3:08 pm
In one of the twins’ 2nd grade classes, *everyone* passed, and over half “exceeded,” which indicates to me (and I have worked with a lot of the kids in that class on reading on a weekly basis) that the test must have been skewed to the “easy” side. If this was done consciously by the test-writers, it really exposes the tests as worthless, even for the limited purposes for which they are intended.
Veteran teacher, 2
May 23rd, 2010
3:21 pm
So, when and if we actually make better scores in this state, how will anyone know it????? It sounds like most people will question the cut score or say the test was easy rather than think that the students may have actually done better.
A better idea is to do away with all this nonsense. Get rid of all testing!
teach me!
May 23rd, 2010
3:24 pm
Depends on county requirements for retesting.
In Gwinnett, 7th graders have to pass the CRCT in math, science, LA and reading to go to 8th grade. If you fail CRCT in 7th, you go to summer school.Grades do not count except in Social Studies, which they have to make a 70 each semester in to avoid summer school. (Since this is last year of implenting the new SS standards, the CRCT in Gwinnett didn’t count for promotion)
ScienceTeacher671
May 23rd, 2010
3:34 pm
Veteran teacher, 2, I really don’t mind having the EOCT. Before we had it, the “teacher” in the room next to mine did nothing all year, had the kids working out of the book while he worked out football plays, and gave all open book multiple choice tests. The kids all passed, most with As and Bs, and everyone was happy, until the kids got to the GHSGT and knew nothing.
With the EOCT, everyone has to teach, or it shows up right away. The major problem I have is that a student only has to get 45% of the questions right to pass — the cut scores are set too low. The other problem is, the students who have been socially promoted despite failing the CRCT will usually fail the EOCT, because they can’t read and comprehend the questions.
As for the cut scores on the CRCT, don’t they give teachers a report that shows how many questions were graded, and how many each student got correct? If you have that, you ought to be able to calculate whether the percentage necessary for passing has changed. Unfortunately, it won’t show whether or not the difficulty of the questions has changed.
irisheyes
May 23rd, 2010
3:36 pm
All of my students passed this year, and while I’m pleased about it for their sakes, I’m not going to run around crowing about my teaching abilities. I’m just glad I don’t have to deal with it next year, though I’m sure GCPS will come up with something in its place. I did have some scores that made me go “?”, like the child who is reading below grade level with an 850 and the one who is reading over a year above grade with an 820, but some kids are naturally good test takers and some aren’t.
Was it easier? I don’t know. I do know that there were certain topics that it focused heavily on and others that were ignored.
I’m just glad that next year, I’ll be able to talk to parents about their child’s whole learning, and not just their CRCT prep. While I try to do that now, most parents are so focused on how their child does on the CRCT that they don’t really want to look at the whole picture.
Teaching in FL is worse
May 23rd, 2010
3:47 pm
If these scores are inflated, the people I feel the most for are our special populations. If the scores are more in lin enext year and they crash, how will it affect them?
I also wonder if we are going to be told, “Look how well you would have been compensated if merit pay was in place?”
No matter what, my students really worked hard, and I am proud of them. Too bad they are pawns in this game…..
dbow
May 23rd, 2010
4:19 pm
Whatever the case here, I’m going to run with it. As soon as somebody points to the test scores and asks me if I would approve of merit pay based on how well my students did on the CRCT, I’m still saying NO. I’m going to take full credit for all the results and start putting down the teachers that didn’t score as my kids did. HAHAHAHAHA I’m going to run all the way to the bank with my results. I have to run because I can’t afford to drive since they cut my stipend and gave me three days off.
Tom
May 23rd, 2010
4:37 pm
Good riddance, Kathy Cox
middleschoolmom
May 23rd, 2010
5:16 pm
How likely is it that my 8th grade (freshman next fall) student (in all AC classes and magnet school bound) received perfect scores on some parts of the CRCT? On the last day of school, he received certificates for this. Only a couple of other kids did the same. I am just curious.
teachertoo
May 23rd, 2010
5:16 pm
The child that slept through the test, yes I woke him several times…failed. One of my ESOL students came so close, and some of my lowest weakest readers passed. It was long and a test of endurance not skill. One 70 min. section would have sufficed. More than half my class passed Math, but my kids came to 3rd without even the basic facts mastered…it was a hard year. Social Studies was redundant, they just kept repeating themselves from what I could gather while pacing the aisles. I hate the test and want to teach for the love of learning again.
Jerry
May 23rd, 2010
5:17 pm
I proctored a 3rd grade test this year and I know of at least 3 students in the class who just went through and answered questions and were done in about 10 minutes. All three of these students “passed” the reading portion of the test. I know that if you guess on all of the questions you should average 25% over a large sample. I guess these students just got lucky and guessed enough right answers to pass. I know it is possible but it seems a little fishy to me as well.
Marie
May 23rd, 2010
5:30 pm
I know we are discussing CRCT but move on ahead and look at EOCT. We received our Math 2 scores May 19. The state cut scores were 42.9 % = 70, passing.
I had one 91 which was 75.9% . The questions are weighted somehow and no one will tell how they are weighted so you can get the same score for different number of correct problems and the flip, you can have 2 students get the same number of problems correct but make different scores.
Kathy “with a K ” Cox took off for DC the day prior….
coincidence?
It is ridiculous to talk about passing when it is 42.9% correct.
Annie
May 23rd, 2010
5:31 pm
At this point, the only individuals who need to know the scores are the students and parents. School systems have only received on-line results, and some have not received those due to individual testing windows. The Department of Education will release the spring CRCT results when ALL of the systems are reported.
The CRCT this year seemed very consistent to previous years, and our school system’s scores were in right on target with the benchmark tests they took throughout the year.
Why does the AJC insist on encouraging suspicion and conspiracy in regard to educators who are doing their jobs in a system of AYP that is dictated by the federal government?
dbow
May 23rd, 2010
5:39 pm
Oh, how I wish I were a student in this day and age. I too could look like a smarty pants while getting a 70% on a standardized test. Oh, but wait. In my day, we were told that we had to work hard for everything we wanted and if we didn’t we wouldn’t reap the rewards. And it was true. My self esteem came from setting goals and trying to achieve them. Kids today are told they’re great just for escaping the womb. Great essays in today’s AJC by some wonderful graduating seniors on everything from education to life in general. I’m going to make copies and pass it out to my students. Some will get it, some won’t, and some won’t care. Such is life.
APS Mom
May 23rd, 2010
5:59 pm
Maureen, Why doesn’t the state and indivisual schools put more emphasis on the ITBS, which compares your student to those across the U.S.? This test also breaks down exactly what types of questions your child answered correctly, incorrectly, and didn’t get to. It seems to me this provides much more valuable information about how a particular student is doing, as well as areas that need to be focused on across the board.
APS Mom
May 23rd, 2010
6:03 pm
Maureen, why doesn’t the state put more emphasis on the ITBS tests? These tests break down what kinds of questions a student answered correctly, incorrectly, and didn’t even get to, and then compares them to kids across the nation, not just Georgia. It seems to me this information is way more valuable than that provided by the CRCT’s.
Special Education teacher
May 23rd, 2010
6:03 pm
Scores are down in almost all elementary schools and most middle schools. Parks Middle School which had a 90% classroom flagged and the highest reading and math scores in the system dropped more than thirty points in math and twenty plus points in reading. Kennedy middle school as well as Turner had massive dropps in reading and mathematics. Reading scores are up at Bunch, Coan, Correta Scott King, Marthin Luther King and maybe a few others. Math scores dropp for almost all schools except Bunch, Correta Scott King and Brown Middle. The data is out.
Colbinator
May 23rd, 2010
6:11 pm
So when can parents learn/view the scores for their school/student?
queen
May 23rd, 2010
6:33 pm
Our district has already given the retest and the tests have been sent off to be scored…Don’t know what APS is waiting on…maybe they still have money to pay teachers to teach the students during the summer and will give the test then…who knows…
Vince
May 23rd, 2010
6:36 pm
Some thoughts about the CRCT
Our scores were up a bit in most areas and grades, but we thought the math was more difficult than last year.
More schools will fail to make AYP due to the jump in the AMO benchmark for math. However, I predict folks will try to pin the increase in “failed to make AYP” on increased scrutiny regarding cheating. Just wait and see.
Only students who fail the CRCT in grades 3, 5 and 8 take the retest. If a student fails the retest his/her parent may appeal the retention. The principal, the parent and the teacher all have to agree that promotion is in the best interest of the child for the child to move on to the next grade.
Honestly, I usually agree to promote if the child is special needs and has no business taking the CRCT in the first place or if the child doesn’t speak English but seems intact intellectually.
All schools, except those with an artificial make up will fail to make AYP in the next 4 years as the passing benchmark increases to 100%.
I once thought my career would outlive the insane requirements of NCLB, but I am beginning to understand common sense, medical science and developmental psychology have no place in Congress, state legislatures or The White House.
Vince
May 23rd, 2010
6:40 pm
@dbow… It has been my own experience as a parent, principal and teacher that school is much tougher now than in the past. Students are taught concepts at a much earlier age and are expected to actually apply their knowledge to real life situations whereas we were merely asked to be repetition robots.
Vince
May 23rd, 2010
6:40 pm
Maureen…do I have something in the filter?
Janine
May 23rd, 2010
6:45 pm
ScienceTeacher671: Yes, the EOTC’s seem to be very late this year. I’m a high school math teacher with quite a few students with low A’s in my advanced classes. They really want to know how they did on the EOTC and how it affected their grades before they take their final test next week, but I don’t have anything to show them. Several are worried that they might drop to B’s before taking this last test, because they told me that a few of the questions were extremely difficult. My top student told me that he doubts some of those hard questions even had a correct answer choice. Hopefully the government will get a move on soon…
Sad Teacher
May 23rd, 2010
6:46 pm
Some APS schools got their data on students who didnt pass in the critical grades LATE Friday afternoon… so parents should be expecting them to go home Monday or Tuesday. APS will have summer school for 3rd, 5th, and 8th failures on July 7th I believe. I can’t wait to see all the scores, this is going to be pretty interesting….
Sad Teacher
May 23rd, 2010
6:49 pm
Sorry, I meant to say the retest will be on July 7th and Summer School starts second week of June… my bad!
Veteran teacher, 2
May 23rd, 2010
7:02 pm
Devil’s advocating here: How many of you have never had a high school or college class with a comprehensive final exam that you were relieved was graded on a curve. I had a buch of them in college. Testing gurus say that the more information on a test, the less likely a percentage grade on a 100 point scale will be statistically sound. To compare a teacher made test on a 100 point scale to a standardized test over a year’s worth of work. How many high school teachers have routinely curved their final exams for years?
Courtney
May 23rd, 2010
7:14 pm
All my scores were way up again this year. It was Kathy Cox’s way of saying how good of job she did. All she did to raise scores was make the tests easier.
say what?
May 23rd, 2010
7:40 pm
Clayton County School sent test scores home last week. And the smartest thing that they have done is to schedule the re-test this week!!! No more expensive summer school and waste of school electricity for kids who did nothing the entire school year. DCSS could have done the same because paying teachers upto $5K for one month of teaching, paying for buses/fuel, school breakfast and lunch for each elementary and middle school testing site is just spending good money after bad. Do away with CRCT summer shool statewide.
People complain that kids stop learning after CRCT, what better time to review with all the students just in case some have to re-take the CRCT.
If the state of GA is serious about testing and learning, implement the ITBS as our high stakes test.
MomandTeacher
May 23rd, 2010
7:44 pm
Both of my middle school sons told me the CRCT was a joke. Very easy. One said the science offered the most challenge of them all. Just think: if Georgia is deliberately making the tests easier this year to counteract and fluff up their images, then just imagine what these kids have in store when they meet face to face with the ugly monster of the “competitive” math curriculum in high school. They’ll be crying just like my students do in high school. Even the GHSGTs are on a 7th grade level. And Georgia honestly wonders why the state consistently has the lowest SAT scores in the nation? Georgia hopes to send these kids out into the world with the delusion that they are competitive with the rest of the nation. It’s a sad, pitiful joke.
Charles
May 23rd, 2010
7:44 pm
There are several comparisons that need to be made once scores are in – for those flagged we compare to see if cheating was involved ie if scores dropped dramatically. For those not flagged to see if an easier test was administered ie their scores increased dramatically. All the mud slinging in this blog so far will be proven true or false based on these comparison results. Thanks AJC for bringing this out for all to see.
MomandTeacher
May 23rd, 2010
7:47 pm
I fear I sound like another conspiracy theorist, but perhaps some people should consider studying the history of the SAT and its ties to eugenics. What’s eugenics you ask? It’s alive and well, rest assured. America is falling into a giant worm hole of stupidity. Georgians will be the first to go.
Open Records Request
May 23rd, 2010
7:59 pm
With the potential for this many people going down, someone is going to spill the beans on what the highest of the highest ups knew. Pull the emails.
AJC, what did Beverly Hall know, and when did she know it?
BamaAKT
May 23rd, 2010
8:08 pm
RobertNATL — I know this is off topic, but are you perhaps a Tennessee fan? I was wondering because I knew someone several years ago by this name on a UT message board that had twins.
rosie
May 23rd, 2010
9:14 pm
Does the state provide a report on how our kids performed on the ITBS? I’d like to compare those results w/the results from the CRCT. I received an ITBS score report for my child, but never saw anything published about ITBS scores for my system or for the state.
Duh??????
May 23rd, 2010
9:18 pm
@ Special Education Teacher I am going to make it plain to you because you missed the memo from my last post. Your information is WRONG! I work at Parks! The only score that is down is the math score and that is only 10% nonFAY and 6% FAY. I don’t know who told you, BUT they told you wrong. SOOOOOO try your post again. I think the ONLY info. you had correct was the information about Bunche. Check out the demographics of Bunche and you might see why! Thanks for your support!
Duh??????
May 23rd, 2010
9:19 pm
I stand in error in my earlier post. I only gave your the 8th grade scores SINCE those are the ONLY scores we have. Pardon my faux pas!
drew (former teacher)
May 23rd, 2010
9:23 pm
School systems are not nearly as interested in student achievement as they are the “appearance” of student achievment. And based on the comments above, it looks like this year’s CRCT results are going to provide them with the numbers to claim success.
This reminds me of a few years ago, when Clayton County’s superintendent informed all principals that office referrals were to be reduced by ten percent. Of course, this did nothing to actually improve discipline, but that was never the goal anyway…the goal was to provide the “appearance” of improved discipline. Image is everything!
I’m sure the highly paid PR folks in these “successful” systems will be crowing about the great job they’ve done.
Wishing
May 23rd, 2010
9:26 pm
And people ask me why I send my kids to private!!! Because I refuse for my children to be taught to this watered-down GA standard CRCT B. Everyone I know tells me how their children exceed this year after year then do so poorly on the itbs. I do know this is not the same type of testing however, when students that are barely making A’s and B’s exceed every area of the CRCT (basic grade level) which is what they should know, it already tells ya something is up!! I will have to keep my mouth shut again when my friends and family members that have children that took this and exceeded it again by answering only maybe 60% correct. They will ask me how my children did and I will have to tell them…our school expects for our children to exceed basic GA standards therefore won’t waste it’s time or our children’s time giving such a basic test. I will have to tell them they where in the top 90% on all areas of the itbs instead NATIONALLY!!!
Something fishy is going on
May 23rd, 2010
9:34 pm
Something ain’t right about the way these scores are being disseminated.
ScienceTeacher671
May 23rd, 2010
9:36 pm
Janine, I heard that the Math I and Math II tests were brutal.
Something fishy is going on
May 23rd, 2010
9:40 pm
Maureen you or your colleagues must know something by now. Surely after all this time you have some contacts in the system.
Janine
May 23rd, 2010
9:42 pm
My Math 1 students did have some trouble with several of the questions, as did my Math II kids. They told me that one weird question was on circles; however, I threw some difficult circle-related questions at them and they all got them correct, so I am confident in their abilities. We’re hoping they throw the weird problems out that most of the students missed.
catlady
May 23rd, 2010
9:45 pm
Our system got the scores 10 days ago, and, while we had been doing “summer school” for the ones we thought would fail it, for the last 10 days we switched around the summer school kids (again) and they got, at best, 7 half days of additional instruction plus the roughly 10 days before which were pseudo summer school for half the day (the other half was regular reading class–2 hrs 20 minutes, Reading First!)
On the plus side, with no real summer school, the incentive is taken away for kids to fail so that they will have free babysitting/food for a month. If only we would quit lying that kids who fail the CRCT are retained!
Our kids retested last Wed. and Thurs, and school was out Friday.
I am surprised about the lateness of APS reporting, as our school system did theirs the latest possible dates, since we had so many snow days. Hall Co, who tested when we did, got the fail list 5 days before we did!
So, with all these suspicious passings, here is what happens: if a kid passes, they don’t get EIP next year. So, they fail next year. In addition, for those of us who teach ESOL, we have depended on the 1-2 CRCT results as half of the information we need to exit a child from services. Now does that mean that the only ones who can exit have a 5.0?
And, since there is no writing CRCT for 3rd or 5th, the ESOL kids will be taking a writing test (a much tougher one than the CRCT, IMHO) yet the “native” kids won’t have to take one!
What a messed up place we live in!
dbow
May 23rd, 2010
9:51 pm
Vince, I have to disagree with you on a few details. When I was growing up in a lower middle class neighborhood, we had a simple choice; work hard or fail. Effort and attitude were the keys to success then and still are now. The difference is that kids today are force fed that they are entitled to everything while working for nothing. They honestly don’t know the value of anything because they’ve never had to work for it. Parents demand that their kids be given awards for just participating in a sports event. We’re told by principals that we have to recognize all the kids so we make up some asinine award to appease them. Sure, kids are being forced to learn things at an earlier age and I agree that’s wrong, but the core values of hard work and attitude are eroding away at an alarming pace. Kids have no accountability for their actions, instead it’s hold hands and sing kumbaya and how may we help you today? These kids are in for a rude awakening because schools aren’t preparing them for what’s really out there. When I try to talk to them about real life, I’m told that I’m hurting their feelings! I saw a great commercial a while back where the announcer said that kids know the price of everything and the value of nothing. That’s never been more true than today.
BehindEnemyLines
May 23rd, 2010
10:06 pm
re: “At this point, the only individuals who need to know the scores are the students and parents”
There’s an awful lot of taxpayers who would disagree with your claim quite strongly.
school teach123
May 23rd, 2010
10:40 pm
The scores should be in all over. Our middle school received them (all of them–no matter what grade or subject) by May 13th. Since the school are mandated to give the test over a ten day period, every school should have received a breakdown by now. We were also informed that we have received the student print outs to include with report cards, and I would think we are just not all that special, so this must be the norm. I would dare say that some administrators are not as open with them as mine, which may explain why some teachers have less familiarity.
Our students performed higher overall, but I think they were better prepared overall as well. I would say that the bar is set rather low, but as with EOCT, we have to realize that we are seeing if students know the minimum to get by.
Enough with conspiracy theories, let’s focus our energies where they need to be; on improving the students and making them the best they can be!
What's going on?
May 23rd, 2010
10:55 pm
Is the delay happening to give time for exit strategies to be put in place before the test scores are released? What’s going on? Somebody has to know.
Where are they?
May 23rd, 2010
11:47 pm
Where are Woodward and Bernstein when you need them?
Griffin-Spalding teacher
May 24th, 2010
6:19 am
I teach at an elementary school. Our scores went up significantly in math and reading. We received our scores about two weeks ago and took the restest last week.
Now I am wondering if our scores went up because of all the hard work that was done, or because the test was easier. *sigh*
Lisa B.
May 24th, 2010
10:31 am
In grades 6-8 the cut scores look to be the same as last year, except in 8th grade math. Last year students had to get 32 out of 60 correct to score 800, and this year students who got 31 answers correct on the 8th grade math CRCT earned 800. That allowed us to have a dozen more 8th graders pass the math test.
EducationCEO
May 24th, 2010
3:34 pm
For those who are wondering why Georgia doesn’t move to the ITBS and dump the CRCT: Because it would show exactly what our students know and do not know, compared to other students across the country. Notice how Cox was against common standards until Race to the Top money came into the picture? All we can do is hope (and fervently pray) that the new superintendent will see that the CRCT is a waste of money and eliminate it. I was thinking of looking into the amount of money spent on testing (CoGAT, CRCT, ITBS, EOCT, & GHSGT), retesting, remediation, tutorials, etc.
Since there are so many on here with issues about districts and how to best fix them, let’s all get out and vote in the July primary to ensure we don’t get another lame duck superintendent in there.
Another Cobb Math parent
May 24th, 2010
7:36 pm
@Wishing, you wrote “I will have to tell them they where in the top 90% on all areas of the itbs instead NATIONALLY!!!”
My public-school educated child was always in the top 1% nationally on the ITBS. Being in the top 90% is not a particularly good accomplishment. Probably you meant top 10% (90th percentile).
A Teacher
May 24th, 2010
10:35 pm
I will admit that I have concerns with the 8th grade CRCT test results this year. I had several students who have minimal to neglible math proficiency pass this year’s test. This will not bode well with the log jam in the 9th grade Math 1A course that many counties have experienced with freshman students. Too much emphasis is being placed on the test. Some children are not gaining basic proficiency and hit the brick wall in high school.
ScienceTeacher671
May 25th, 2010
6:38 am
EducationCEO, “I was thinking of looking into the amount of money spent on testing (CoGAT, CRCT, ITBS, EOCT, & GHSGT), retesting, remediation, tutorials, etc.”
It looks to me as if that would make a great investigative story for someone at the AJC – especially since 1-2 companies seem to be getting the majority of that money. They should also look at who is getting money for school data collection & gradebook software, don’t you think?
Wishing
May 25th, 2010
10:03 am
EducationCEO is right on the money with the fact that they should eliminate CRCT on test ITBS test instead. Yes, this is a totally different type of test. One that makes much more sense in comparing students nationally will give these CRCT dumb-down test and parents something to truly compare to. @Anothercobbmathparent…yes,I did mean to say itbs scores have been always in the top 1% to 5% composite score of 95th to 99th. I have seen students take the CRCT exceed all areas and barely make at the highest on itbs an 80 not so bad but still not great. Before anyone tells me that anything above 50 is above national standards…some of the private schools that give these test would let you know right off the bat that Susie is way behind if she scores in the 50%. Public schools will tell you wow Susie did better than half the nation in that particular grade. That makes it sound alot better. Remember the itbs is a basic standards test for the nation in other words… these are what the standards are in the highest ranked states. GA CRCT are some of the lowest standards that is why it is very easy to EXCEED and then do so poorly on the itbs the years it is given.
APS teacher
May 25th, 2010
11:55 am
I am an APS elementary teacher whose school was in the top 10 most severe schools and we have still not received notification of test results other than who failed in the 3rd and 5th grades. Even that information was released very privately. We had over 50% of our 5th graders fail the CRCT, so I suspect that our scores are ridiculously lower than last year (seeing as we made AYP).
Moeun Al-Shafiq
May 25th, 2010
5:37 pm
I just got the results form my son today. he meet 4/5. He didnt pass reading. He did 1st-2nd 9 weeks a B/C. 3rd 9 weeks and 4th nine weeks a C. Can they still waived summer school because the avreage on his report card is a C. I just spoke to his teacher and he said he may has to go to summer school because of that one D. I heard other parents appealed for it and they let them pass after they reviewed it again.
First Grade Teacher
May 26th, 2010
3:13 pm
My students did very well on CRCT this year; best scores in quite a few years. I did feel this year that there was a good “match” between GPS and the test. That being said, I don’t feel I can claim any bragging rights or decide I must be a fabulous teacher. My children came to me well prepared; most had mastered the kindergarten curriculum and were already reading at or above first grade level. They had very solid math skills as well.
The CRCT measures basic achievement. The “exceeds” scores are misleading; I don’t think they mean anything more than simply being “on grade level.” Most of my lower readers were able to answer the reading comprehension questions by process of elimination or lucky guesses.
I’m glad first graders won’t have to take the CRCT next year, but I wonder what it will be replaced with, and what different hoops I’ll be asked to jump through.
First Grade Teacher
May 26th, 2010
3:25 pm
I agree wholeheartedly with dbow. The ‘entitlement’ mentality makes children (and their parents) happy in the short term, but is disastrous in the long term.We’re creating a generation of children who’ve never had to work for anything, and have no idea what hard work and dedication look like, There’s been a big increase in the number of parents who insist to me that their child is “gifted”, needs to be “challenged” or they’ll become bored (for the record, I’ve never taught a truly “gifted” child who was ever ‘bored’. They found ways to interest and occupy themselves!).
Parents today are far too invested in making sure everyone else at the pool or grocery store knows how academically brilliant and athletically talented their children are, and by kindergarten! It’s ridiculous, and sad. How about just letting them be “kids”, and realizing they’re average, like the vast majority of us?
Parent3
May 30th, 2010
12:29 pm
It is a sad fact that Georgia contines their efforts in watering down education and threrefore holding children as ransom for not passing this one test. The very idea that Cathy Cox’s political election is up and coming is no coincidence. When one can’t handle her own personal number matters, she has some nerve to try to tell us how to educate Georgia Future.
mommyof3
June 2nd, 2010
9:41 am
My son (a third grader) made A / B honor roll almost all year with the exception of an F in social studies on a progress report that he had brought up to a B on his next report card. His average for the year in Reading was an 89 B+. I told his 3rd grade teacher on the first day of school that he will need to be in an Intensive reading class which they offer at the school for kids that need it. Well they tested him and said “yes he does need to be in the reading class” So he went twice a week for the entire school year. About a month before school ended I learned that he had been doing Math in this reading class just about the whole year. The class takes place in a computer lab on the computers. Kids in there are either doing Math or Reading which ever they need help in. The teacher in there just sat around and didnt make sure the kids were doing what they were supposed to do. So therefore my son wasted a whole year in a reading class doing math games on the computer and now is in danger of being left back in the 3rd grade for not passing the reading portion of the CRCT. although he made a’s and b’s all year. He is in summer school now and will be retaking the test in a week and a half. If he fails he goes back to the third grade. He doesnt need to be back in the 3rd grade he needs to be in the 4th grade and in an Intensive reading class everyday when the other kids go to gym and music. I dont put all the blame on the computer lab supervisior. My son knew he was supposed to do reading. But what 3rd grader is going to read (especially when they dont enjoy it becuase its harder for them) and answer questions when there is a really fun math program they can get on and play games every time they get a question right. If you put my son in an Intensive Reading Class then make sure he is doing reading and not math the whole year. He is paying for his mistake. All the supervisior had to do is walk around the lab one time with a piece of paper that had the childs name on it and what they were in there for either reading or math and make sure thats what they were doing. That simple!!!
North Fulton-Crabapple Area Parent
June 2nd, 2010
10:34 am
Unfortunately testing has taken up so much energy that real teaching has become limited. To another APS teacher, I am amazed at your statement because it is identical to GA’s position: take a limited portion of data and determine progress and success by that limited amount of data. If you want to determine the true success of children (or adults) you can’t take a small portion of data and make sweeping (often inaccurate) assumptions. Anyone want to know how accurate these tests are? Go to FB for some of our kids and see how seriously they take these tests, how hard they try. My children attend schools that experienced a large amount of success, however they considered the CRCT vacation days. Get through the test so they can have “free time” after they completed the test. This is not an acceptable barometer for the ability of our children or the capability of the teachers.
Ex APS
June 2nd, 2010
3:55 pm
APS is a crooked school system where cheating is common place in MANY schools. Where there’s a will, there’s a way! At one school where i KNOW cheating was common, the scores plummeted this year. Hmmmm….I WONDER WHY????…..
basketball coach
June 6th, 2010
9:56 pm
How hard is it to teach a kid how to read? I know incoming 5th graders that can’t read “See Spot run”. I’m considering tutoring for academics rather than basketball. I think I would have a much greater impact on their lives doing that. Public schools are a huge waste of money and time.
basketball coach
June 6th, 2010
10:07 pm
mommyof3, Never, I repeat NEVER, depend on the government to educate your children.
Broken Heart mom
June 14th, 2010
1:38 am
My son was in 3rd Grade,He took the CRCT and failed the math & reading.He has retaken both parts,I have been advised that he pass the math part.But the reading ???????.So,do We (me & my son) have to wait until school starts back to see if he passed.It has really took a toll on mom’s heart.
Broken Heart mom
June 14th, 2010
1:43 am
mommyof3 I’m feeling for you also.My child has a 87 B average.Hope we get some answers soon!!!!!
vicki anderson
June 15th, 2010
9:33 am
They need to lower the test score on the crct test, or their shouldn’t to be any test to go to the next grade. If they pass their class during the school year they should pass they grade. If other kids needs
help they should ask teacher for time after class to make sure they understanding what their our talking
about.
TC
June 15th, 2010
2:07 pm
As I explained to my math teacher who said the test seemed easier this year and saw her scores jump 25%, it all started with Reading. The firat tests they were mandated to pass were reading tests in the 8th Grade. When students struggled they lowered the difficulty level of the questions until %s were where they liked them. Now they are moving to math…next will be science…then Social Studies. Why? Because that is the order in which the “passage” of the test is implemented. BUT unfortunately for Science and Social Studies, students will not have a reading passage to refer back to before answering the question. Math is a building block process in which students should use current skills and build upon earlier skills. In Social Studies and Science, these are STAND ALONE subjects in the 8th Grade where there is usually NO Prior knowledge. BUT administrators expect to see 80+% passing rates in subjects where the students are told “You only have to pass Math and reading to go to 9th Grade.” Until we make it even across the board there will be no accuracy in the scoring system.
taylor
June 17th, 2010
1:58 pm
mommy of three such a sob story what did you do to help your own child