Class size: After state board vote Monday, the sky’s the limit
(Updated by me at 10:30 Monday night with interviews with local systems, experts)
The state Board of Education voted Monday to lift all limits on class sizes over the next year in response to the deepening school budget crisis that has already forced thousands of teacher layoffs, the loss of music and arts programs and shorter school years in some Georgia districts.
Described as an emergency response to a worsening financial climate, The 9-2 vote means that Georgia school districts can raise class size by 5five, 10, 15 students — or as many students as they choose — without seeking a waiver from the board or the Department of Education.
The vote essentially guts the prevailing state rules that mandated 23 students or fewer in k-3 and 28 in grades 4-8.
“I want to understand — we are giving school boards the right to decide in any class, in any grade and in any subject matter the ability to have any class size they want?” asked state board member James E. Bostic Jr.
Yes, said state school Superintendent Kathy Cox. “We wouldn’t have the authority to tell them no.”
Entrusted with this new freedom, local school boards can be counted on to act responsibly and not to raise class sizes to levels where students suffer, said Cox.
In the metro Atlanta area, counties contacted Monday said they have no intentions of suddenly supersizing their classes.
“We have got to trust the local school boards are going to do right by their students and by student achievement,” Cox said after a board member balked at eliminating all caps on class size.
Cox pointed out that state funding to schools has been cut by nearly $1 billion by the Legislature in the past year. “We don’t have a choice. We didn’t give them enough money.” “We are not providing the resources for local systems to conduct business as usual.”
But board member Linda M. Zechmann countered that parents and schools expect the state Board of Education to set limits and that the board was abdicating its oversight role in removing any ceiling on how many students can be in a classroom.
“In my experience in the field, people rely on us for boundaries,” she told her fellow board members.
In August, the state board approved a policy allowing school systems to raise class size by two students in k-8 classrooms. However, if a school district wanted a larger increase or wanted to raise class sizes in high schools, it had to seek a waiver from the board, and 106 systems have done so in the past nine months. The waiver process required state Department of Education employees to review the district’s request and performance data and make a recommendation to the board, which Cox described as too time-consuming during a period when cash-strapped districts need to be able to act quickly and decisively on their budgets.
Zechmann offered a motion that would allow schools to raise class sizes only by 20 percent, but it was defeated by her colleagues who felt that any limits would only aggravate already frustrated systems.
“It’s just for one year, one year,” said board member Brian K. Burdette. “We can’t say we are going to give systems more flexibility and then tie their hands.”
The vote represents a setback to an ambitious plan initiated a decade ago to reduce Georgia’s class sizes. In 1998, kindergartens housed 27 children and fourth grade had 33 students. Georgia brought those numbers down considerably, capping kindergarten at 22 students and fourth grade at 28.
Metro counties contacted Monday said they have no intentions of suddenly supersizing their classes.
In the Atlanta area, here’s a look at what school district representatives said Monday after the vote:
* City of Atlanta: “The district’s budget for FY11 has already been developed and approved by the School Board. It includes slight increases in average class sizes for all grade levels, but the resultant class sizes remain within state limits. The district does not anticipate having to use the state’s recent lessening of class size restrictions option at this point,” said spokesman Keith Bromery.
* Clayton County: “As of today, the only class-size change Clayton County Public Schools is planning to implement for 2010-11 is increasing our kindergarten class size from 23 to 25 students. Each kindergarten classroom will be staffed by a teacher and a paraprofessional,” said Clayton schools spokesman Charles White.
* Cobb County: “In Cobb, we anticipated the need to increase class sizes for the coming school year and planned accordingly by seeking waivers last fall and earlier this spring,” said Cobb schools spokesman Jay Dillon. “We do not anticipate a need to increase class sizes further than what we’ve already requested. In fact, after a preliminary review of our current status and the allotment of teachers for next school year, we are confident that the worst fears about overflowing classrooms will not happen in Cobb. Many classes will see a marginal increase of two or three, and in some cases four of five students, but we don’t foresee any overflowing classrooms or unmanageable situations.”
* DeKalb County: “Our budget is already set, and we are raising class sizes by two students,” said DeKalb schools spokesman Dale Davis. “We will take this new state policy under advisement.”
* Fayette County: “We will not take advantage of the new rule for increasing class sizes. We have already set our class sizes to the rule that was implemented last year,” said Fayette schools spokeswoman Melinda Berry-Dreisbach.
* Fulton County: “We have no plans to go to the board and say that we have been given carte blanche now and let’s raise class size even higher,” said Fulton schools spokeswoman Allison Toller. Fulton parents can expect class sizes of 23 or less in the early grades and 30 students starting in fourth, she said. However, if the system was faced with one or two students arriving last minute and pushing class sizes beyond those limits, Toller said Fulton then might take advantage of the new flexibility.
* Gwinnett County: Under a flexibility contract, Gwinnett is not affected by the state board policy as it sets its own class sizes. (The system has announced plans to raise class size next year by one student.)
Georgia is not alone in its abandonment of class size ideals in the face of a depleted state coffers. Over the weekend, 35,000 people showed up at the New Jersey Statehouse to protest the governor’s plan to increase class sizes there. In the Los Alamitos Unified School District in California, the schools are asking parents to donate $225 per child to prevent a jump in class sizes. Texas, which was one of the first states to mandate strict class sizes, is considering getting rid of its 25-year-old standards.
And there is a district-led campaign in Florida to revise a 2002 constitutional amendment capping class sizes at 18 students for kindergarten through third grade, 22 in fourth through eighth grade, and 25 in high school. The law was being phased in, and districts were supposed to be in full compliance this year.
One of the arguments being made in Texas and Florida is that there is no strong evidence that the expensive, smaller classes lead to improved student performance.
“Teachers and parents and even students are big fans of smaller class sizes, but the research is really not as supportive,” says Susan Walker, policy and research director for the Georgia Partnership for Excellence in Education. Research shows the benefits of smaller class size in kindergarten and first grade, says Walker, “but once you get past that, there is really no evidence that it makes a positive impact on student achievement.” More critical in those upper grades is teacher quality, she says.
University of Georgia language and literacy education professor Peter Smagorinsky offered another view: “From the standpoint of an ex-English teacher in three high schools, I can say that the more students you have, the less time you can spend on any one student. Do the math: If you have 120 students [which is a relatively low load] and spend one minute on each every day, that’s two hours of work outside class. Add 50 or 80 more students, and the problem becomes more acute. Now consider the teaching and grading of writing. Let’s say that you spend 15 minutes grading each student essay. That’s 30 hours of grading for 120 students; add 50 more and it’s a whole bunch more.”
I am torn on this decision. I understand that local systems need flexibility but I think the current requirement that class size waivers go through the state causes systems to think carefully before increasing a kindergarten class to 28 kids.
The counter argument is that it should be up to local boards and communities whether they can live with a 28-student kindergarten class, not the state board of education. The deluge of requests for waivers was also taking hundreds of hours of DOE staff time.
I would like to invite state school superintendent candidates to weigh in on this important issue.
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217 comments Add your comment
Echo
May 23rd, 2010
9:42 pm
Maybe the teachers who got RIF’d are the lucky ones.
Northview (Ex)Teacher
May 23rd, 2010
9:43 pm
Well, just so long as everyone at the Central Office can keep his or her overpaid job based on “salary studies.”
I am so sick of this inbred, trailer-trash approach to everything having to do with education. And we have money to pay some semi-literate, if that, football coach almost $1 million.
Eight years of republicans, and things have just absolutely hit bottom. Counting down the days until I can leave and take my family with me.
Something fishy is going on
May 23rd, 2010
9:49 pm
C’mon Maureen; you haven’t put a feelers out, and gotten any bites on what’s really going on with the test scores not coming out?
And here’s some outside the box thinking. Why not tie increasing class size to reducing central office bureaucracy? You get a waiver if you’re willing to cut waste in central office.
Dekalbite
May 23rd, 2010
10:01 pm
Well, I guess the 8,500 admin and support people in DCSS versus the 6,800 teachers will rest easy tonight. Their jobs will be protected at all cost to students.
Why even have teachers or students? Just send in your taxes. It’s analogous to a charity that ends up with most its money going to the administration of the charity and little reaching the needy.
Dekalbite
May 23rd, 2010
10:09 pm
Consider this:
DCSS has $1,000,000,000 (yes that’s a billion dollars) as a budget. We spend $376,000,000 in teacher salaries. Add 20% benefits for a grand total of $451,000,000. Actually that figures gone down by about $18,000,000 since we chopped off 275 teacher positions last year – so let’s re-figure – $433,000,000.
That leaves $567,000,000 going to personnel who never teach children. What is wrong with this picture? I guess nothing to the state board of ed.
Source: Georgia DOE website (please go here and do your own calculations):
http://public.doe.k12.ga.us/ReportingFW.aspx?PageReq=102&CountyId=644&T=1&FY=2009
Veteran teacher, 2
May 23rd, 2010
10:10 pm
Every decision has consequences. The state has consistently passed the pain for each consequence to the local BOE. This is simply another step in that process. Now, can we talk about some of the other unfunded mandates? Can they go, too?
Echo
May 23rd, 2010
10:11 pm
Just out of curiosity, even if the size limits are gone, aren’t there limits (listen up fire marshall) to how many people can be put into a single classroom at one time and still be “safe”? So 35 kids in one portable classroom is ok? What about 40? 5-6 PE classes of 50-60 each in one gym? Now what happens if someone gets hurt in an overcrowded class…who is liable?
@ Echo
May 23rd, 2010
10:21 pm
In DCSS, parents call the fire marshall with just such concerns. They were told the limits were only in cafeterias if hundreds of students were there. They had no problems with 40 kids in a classroom. If someone gets hurt, it’s the teacher’s liability. That’s the main reason teachers join GAE. It’s not a union – it’s just the only high priced insurance they can get.
Forget science labs though. Over 24 is where all the studies show accidents go up. Luckily DCSS knows this, so labs are no a requirement of science teachers. Really – I’m not being facetious.
Teacher with a job
May 23rd, 2010
10:26 pm
There is a max number of occupancy in a trailer–call the Fire Marshall if you are not sure. I did; trailers so crowded, students had to get up and stand some a student could get out the door to go to the bathroom. Teacher–I was unable to move more than a few inches.
What about AP and Sp Ed? There are Federal limits. So, grade papers for 200 students per day? Take me a week to get all that done~~better do away with a specific number of grades per week. Are you listening Supt?
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May 23rd, 2010
10:28 pm
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Another Cobb Teacher
May 23rd, 2010
10:38 pm
You know….being RIF’ed was a blessing in disguise. I feel for those left.
What's going on?
May 23rd, 2010
10:58 pm
Is the delay deliberate on the test scores to make time for exit strategies to be put in place? What’s going on? Somebody has to know.
RobertNAtl
May 23rd, 2010
11:15 pm
Seriously? You’re “torn”? If the State Board called a meeting to propose waiving, for “flexibility” purposes, the requirement that students be taught in buildings that met fire codes, or waiving the requirement that students be taught by college-educated and state-certified teachers, would you be “torn” by that, too?
I’m not torn at all. I’m *pissed* at the continual abdication of responsibility by everyone in the educational hierarchy in this state.
TEACH ME
May 23rd, 2010
11:28 pm
I teach Elementary school that just increase our 5th grade to 35 students in each classroom next year.
Oh, Boy now we can go even higher.
The PE Department has 44 in one class, will they now be able to handle 100?
Next thing you know we are going to ask the Police to stop catching criminals it cost too much to feed them!
The answer is...
May 23rd, 2010
11:40 pm
How about we just stick them all in one classroom and let Sonny teach ‘em?
Ros Dalton
May 23rd, 2010
11:41 pm
Is there something I’m missing here or does an increased class size not imply further teacher firings?
Bama Bill
May 23rd, 2010
11:46 pm
The Cobb School Board and judgment coupled with class size is an impossibility ! Someone at state please help the students of Cobb. It is clear the school board and leadership could care less.
GABuckeye37
May 24th, 2010
12:05 am
Northview (Ex)Teacher, would you like to sound a little more unintelligent with your statement? That’d be nice.
Teacher Reader
May 24th, 2010
12:11 am
I am convinced the Georgia State Government does not care if the state is dead last in education. I am glad that I resigned and will homeschool my child for as long as my family is in Georgia. This is nonsense.
spf15
May 24th, 2010
12:26 am
Dekalbite: Try looking at the actual budget at http://www.dekalb.k12.ga.us/superintendent/budget/files/FY2011%20Proposed%20Budget%20Book.pdf instead of making up numbers. I’m not disputing that too much money may be being spent outside the classroom, but your numbers are assuming that everything that is not spent directly on a teacher’s salary is going to personnel outside the classroom. That ignore transportation, books, electricity, heat, and several other things that teachers need to be effective in the classroom.
Courtney
May 24th, 2010
12:27 am
Why do we have so many prisons? Isn’t the answer obvious after reading yet another article about spending less on education of our future work force.
Jim in Ga
May 24th, 2010
12:28 am
Northview (Ex)Teacher
What coach makes almost a million a year? I need to start working on my resume if that’s the case.
Legend of Len Barker
May 24th, 2010
1:17 am
Increased class size? Awesome.
It would be even more awesome if I were still running the computer lab at my old school. I had 30 student computers. Always fantastic when we had more than 30 kids in there at the time, especially when it was for something important, like CRCT practice.
In case anyone is unsure, the above was sarcasm.
The state used to bicker about how small our rural schools were. They apparently missed the year that my father had 40 in one class. Which meant he had 40 students for two classes and a homeroom as he had seventh grade for homeroom and science and social studies for 6-8.
The state literally wants to take us back to the olden days. In the 1910s and early 1920s, state school superintendent M.L. Duggan did surveys of every school in several counties. The three most common complaints were lack of decent toilets, lack of supplies, and huge class sizes. The latter of which probably won’t differ too much if the state eases up on the class size regulation.
Someone commented on special ed: Fifteen years ago it was 15 per class without a paraprofessional and 17 with one. I know that’s changed since to more students without a paraprofessional, but I don’t know the exact figure. Not that it mattered much anyway as the parapros are every school system’s unpaid substitutes and were at the beck and call of every teacher who wanted to skip out (for a legitimate reason or otherwise) for a period or after lunch.
TeacherTeacher
May 24th, 2010
1:32 am
Can’t wait to see how GA scores compared to other states when there are larger class sizes…hmmmm, guess my children will be going to private school…and, I’m a public school teacher…oh well, the world needs people who are willing to work for minimum wage – GA will be able to provide that with the education they will be providing over the next few years…
—and, with furloughs and other cuts and the amount I have to spend to keep my classroom running well, I’d be better off having been RIF’d and on unemployment…seriously!
Gibs Girl
May 24th, 2010
3:42 am
The state of our schools is in real trouble. I fear that after tomorrow’s meeting, the schools will be in a really sad situation. My daughter is already complaining that there are so many students in her Math class, that the teachers’ don’t have enough time to answer all questions or assist students with help. Even in the after-school tutorial programs, there are so many students showing up, because during regular class time, when the teaching is supposed to occur, teachers are spending most of the period being disciplined! So with the increased class sizes, does that mean that now the teachers will spend all of the time screaming at kids who clearly don’t want to learn a thing and have no plans on attending college?
Hummon
May 24th, 2010
4:18 am
This is an extraordinary time – such things have to be done.
My fear is that with the current crowd in charge, things will stay this way when revenues are back to normal.
Mid-south Philosopher
May 24th, 2010
4:24 am
An old adage, but true, “You can pay me now, or you can pay me later.”
Sonny, the General ASSembly, the State Board of Education, and we citizens have all chosen to pay later. But, a “pay day” is coming, for all of us!
Mid-south Philosopher
May 24th, 2010
4:34 am
An old adage, but true, “You can pay me now, or you can pay me later.” Of one thing we can be sure…we will pay!
Terry Davis
May 24th, 2010
5:42 am
Each district should have their do not meets list already. The list was sent to APS last week. It’s my understanding that the district took their time to analyze the data. From what we hear, it doesn’t look that much different from last year. In fact, I hear that middle school did much better than they usually do. And elementary did about the same if not a little lower. So much for cheating in APS. My school’s data looks about the same as it was last year. We have 39% erasure. It looks like our 3rd grade did better than last years. Our 5th graders did about the same. It wasn’t good last year and isn’t much better this year.
mwilson
May 24th, 2010
5:55 am
Sad to think that the State School Superintendent makes less than most local school superintendents. Makes me sick that these superintendents are not taking pay cuts. Maybe this class size waiver will get some parents fired up and they will start asking for accountability from these overpaid superintendents.
forgotten?
May 24th, 2010
6:01 am
2 APS admins already plead guilty to cheating.
Sadtohear
May 24th, 2010
6:04 am
Our came back too. The only dip was in a grade level that had all new teachers, and half the students in that grade level were new to the school. I wonder if the ajc will say that it doesn’t matter that those kids weren’t at your school last year, or so what those same kids failed last year…the eraser report must mean something.
Grumpy
May 24th, 2010
6:06 am
I looked at some of my old elementary school class pictures. Anywhere from 23 to 26 kids per class every year. And we seemed to do OK.
The ajc has done a fantastic job exposing the bloated administrations that exist in Atlanta’s public schools. Cut one administrator, and you could save one teacher AND reduce the budget by thousands of dollars. So why hasn’t this happened?
Voice of Reason
May 24th, 2010
6:15 am
Wow the state of Georgia really has it’s priorities in line. First we lead the Nation and convictions and use all this money to house, cloth, feed ,and provide medical care to inmates. When we could cut back on this. Then we wonder why Georgia Students rank near the bottom in almost every major catgory. We have so leaders who are all about themselves. During all these budget cuts I have not heard Governor Sonny Purdue nor anyone else say that they will take a pay cut (every little but helps) while at the same time I hear people all over the state taking various Pay Cuts. Our leadership is terrible.
Private School Teacher
May 24th, 2010
6:24 am
20 years ago, we may have had 26 kids in a class, and we did okay, but we were also better behaved. It’s ridiculous the behavior that public school teachers have to deal with now. It makes that class of 26 feel like 40.
4 Jacks
May 24th, 2010
6:29 am
The state of Georgia should vote all incumbents out of office for letting our state educational system sink to a new low. Georgia has never been good in education because our represenitives could care less about my children or your children’s education. Where is all the lottery money? Why is education not an important issue? Our political leaders, if you can call them that, have continually let us and and our children down. I hope everyone will vote against all incumbents and tell the new guys if they don’t fix it we will vote them out of office too.
Status Quo
May 24th, 2010
6:42 am
Dear CCSD RIF’D teachers:
Please create a short resume of your abilities to tutor my student. At this point, why would I send my child to school in a class of 35 when students are able to behave in any manner they want with no consequence? Why would I send my child when the teacher cannot call on them, help them individually, or they wait days to get a chance to go to the “smart board”? Why would they attend when they risk injury in PE due to lack of supervision, can’t get on a computer, an instrument, or have a seat in the art room? Why would they attend if they cannot participate in after school clubs (teachers are too busy grading, and planning to continue to volunteer their time?) Why go when they have to eat lunch at 10am, don’t have a textbook, or can’t move have small group instruction – the room is too small? Have your resumes ready, as I will be calling someone who can help homeschool my student. School Board, Idiot Governor, and Legislators: I will remember your choices and how they impacted my student at election.
whats funny
May 24th, 2010
6:44 am
education is in the GA constitution; everything else should be cut before they get to education or perhaps find an alternative way of funding our schools. State wide renter fees, increase in sales tax for non-food items, open up gambling on the coast or in down town ATL, etc… It just seems the ppl in the legislature think their elected positions are about what they get out of it and not about service and sacrifice.
Old School
May 24th, 2010
6:44 am
And the broad brush sweeps across all classes yet again. Imagine a construction lab built in the early 70s when the move was to Comprehensive High Schools. Those labs were designed for a maximum of 18 students and operated safely under the guidance of men and women hired out of industry for their expertise. Nearly all those instructors were natural teachers who connected the academics inherent in all trades to the skills required by all trades. Their task was to prepare those students with job entry level skills and knowledge- which they did- and as a result, kids stayed in school and graduated.
30 kids in an English class are far safer and easier to supervise than 30 kids in a construction, metals, or automotive lab.
Fast forward to the past few years: many of those programs have been shut down and far too many more were never updated. Now they not only try to fulfill their original mission but must jump through the same research-based hoops inflicted across the board AND they must accomplish this in the same square footage with more students, fewer resources, less money, outdated equipment, aging facilities, and morales that continue to take a beating.
Yet these men and women in vocational education soldier on and continue to work miracles. I am humbled to have been a part of this hardy, caring, skilled group for the past 36 years and will continue to advocate FOR THEM however I can in my retirement.
E. Cobb Parent
May 24th, 2010
7:39 am
Well for those that feel we need local control, now is the time to see if local control can make decent decisions. If Cobb puts 24 or more in a K class then we know the central office has once again shown poor management. I think Cobb purposely is going that route in order to get everyone on board with raising the millage. Look at the bloated Central Office (that the AJC barely brought to light), the Central Office is spend, spend, spend on salaries for nonessential staff. Reminds me of Nero if he really did say “Let Rome Burn”. Fred is doing the same; all so he can get more money.
As other posters said, I believe KC and others have purposely withheld information to cover how bad things really are and the AJC has gone along with it and you call yourselves journalists! You aren’t even writers, you are taken dictation.
As for those that are looking at party lines, open your eyes, people will run under the ticket that they think will get them elected. Ask hard questions and evaluate how those are answered, forget about the letter beside the name.
I wonder
May 24th, 2010
8:54 am
… can a district file for bankrupcy? What happens then?
… can students file a law suit agaist their district, and maybe the state, for the violation of their state constitutional right?
Economicwoes
May 24th, 2010
9:03 am
Remember, Dekalb didn’t offer early retirement. If the paper is going to compare ALvin’s salary with private business then school systems need to operate similar to business. Concerned parents of Georgia have been screaming about this for the past ten years. Alvin didn’t lay off central office staff, even those who break the law by not reporting worker comp. claims much less allowing sick time off, managers who threatened their employees, discriminately fire minority employees, managers who harass ex-employees, nothing is done to these people making in excess of $90,000 per year.
Another view
May 24th, 2010
9:11 am
Districts can file for bankruptcy. You don’t want this to happen, as it makes basically all future bonds impossible due to high interest rates. Sadly, it is better to have them taken over by the state. GA simply lacks proper funding for education. Too many corporations, retired individuals, and wealthy people either pay no taxes or too little. We suffer from the idea that education should be free for all, but nobody wants to pay for that free education. Georgia is quickly becoming Atlantic coast twin of California.
@ spf15 from Dekalbite
May 24th, 2010
10:02 am
I have looked at the actual budget(s) – many times. And I’m more than aware of what is necessary to teach in a classroom.
Please ask any DCSS teacher is they have adequate service from DCSS admin ad support with respect to books, electricity, heat and air. We have many teachers who receive books for their students late and/or students who share books. We commonly have classrooms with no heat or air or too much heat or air. The heat may blast at 85 degrees so the teachers need to open their windows in January and then go for weeks in the late May with no air. HVAC is one of the poorest areas of service. The pay range for HVAC mechanics (with a high school diploma) is $43,000 to $58,000 (I’m not making that up – these and Kitchen Mechanic jobs were advertised on PATS) – around the pay for our Masters level teachers.
There is not anywhere near the technology access for our students that other metro systems have. There are 2 computers at the most in the typical classroom for 33 – now 35 students, 1,500 ACTIVboards for 6,800 teachers, and extremely limited access to technology labs. That’s why our students can’t take the benchmark tests online and have to “bubble in” and teachers scan the results.
We don’t even have enough labs for a small sample of our 8th graders to take the required state 8th Grade Technology Competency test online – they too have to “bubble in” the answers to a technology test! No wonder they do so poorly in this area.
Broken equipment, teachers buying science equipment and materials – these are commonplace in DCSS classrooms. If the classroom received stellar service from HVAC, MIS and Construction, and had abundant and cutting edge science and technology that worked, what you say would have more credibility.
Maybe you need to get out into the schools every day and model lessons to thousands of students in scores of schools. Use only what is available in the schools. You would get the perspective of the teachers and the students.
The sum of our schools is more than just what’s on paper in a budget. Book budgets are great, but books must actually get to the students in a timely manner. Heating and air budgets do not ensure adequate heat and air in a classroom. Technology budgets do not ensure that the technology works and works in the way it is supposed to work. Budgets do not ensure good customer service. Much of the backlash the admin and support side is seeing is from the exceptionally poor customer service as the parents/taxpayers are realizing they are not getting their money’s worth, and it’s negatively impacting the students. I know I’m not making that up.
LSH
May 24th, 2010
10:44 am
Do people understand that there are only so many desks that can possibly fit into a room? Not all rooms are the same size! In my old classroom, I could only physically put 35 desks into the room. I had a class of 36 (Remember, these are class size AVERAGES- not class size limits!) and I would hope that at least one kid would not show up. I could not walk around the room with all the backpacks and other things on the floor. What was going on in the back of the room? 40 more desks, 40 or more students WITH their backpacks and other things they carry around. How could this not become a health or fire hazard? It’s going to take a kid getting hurt because of these conditions for things to change.
Bigger Class Sizes, Bigger Voter Base? — Peach Pundit
May 24th, 2010
11:06 am
[...] As reported by the AJC, the State School Board has removed classroom size caps for the time being. This is not a surprising turn of events as many local school boards are facing a decreased budget and have been forced to implement RIF (Reduction In Force) policies to eliminate teaching positions. The board vote means that Georgia school districts can raise class size by 5, 10, 15 — or as many students as they choose — without seeking a waiver from the state board of education. But board members contended that local school boards can be trusted to act responsibly. [...]
Anita Karnibad
May 24th, 2010
11:44 am
We are going backward not forward in every way to educate our future generation. We have come so far and now this. There must be a way other than furloughs, shorter days and now larger classrooms. FIND IT..THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE IN THE THINK TANK.
ebrjlr
May 24th, 2010
11:47 am
Where is the schools systems bail out?
Jefferson Jackson
May 24th, 2010
11:50 am
I do not believe that you have to spend $300,000.00+ to get a quality educator to be a superintendent. It just beggars belief to think that there aren’t competent educators in Georgia who could serve the educational neds of our children for substantially less than that! As for class size, I’ll say this: it is an important facor in early education (Pre-K, K, and the primary grades), but becomes less so the older the child becomes. By high school class size is isn’t important at all. You well paid superintendents, can you figure out a solution here? Isn’t it obvious what to do??
Fedup
May 24th, 2010
11:51 am
Hey, Northview ex-teacher…you have been one of the biggest sourpusses in all of these blog opportunities…are you leaving soon?
Insane if they think this will help increase test scores
May 24th, 2010
11:52 am
As a parent that is very active in my daughters classroom teachers are already struggling with 21 students in a classroom. They don’t have time to focus on the weaker performing students and now the dummies working for the states School board have decided schools can increase classes to any amount they need so that State of Georgia school board staff can keep a job. Brilliant! Let the students suffer while the dummies continue to get a salary. Tell me exactly what is the Lottery Fund paying for???
June
May 24th, 2010
11:53 am
Sure, let’s keep spending more and more money on testing and increase the class size. That will be a great help to the students and teachers – NOT!!! My daughter had 30 in her 4th grade class this year. Three of those 30 were special needs mainstreamed. I know they deserve the same education, however, I also know how difficult this made the teacher’s job. There was virtual chaos in that room ALL the time. Not a good education for my child…
Concerned Parent
May 24th, 2010
11:54 am
This makes no sense at all- prisons even have cap sizes on the number of prisoners that can be housed in one prison, but you are telling me there will be no cap size on the number of students in a classroom. Thanks Georgia for showing us all what you really think about our children’s education.
DunMoody
May 24th, 2010
11:57 am
So, if a principal tries to assign class size as equally as possible, that’ll mean 30-35 kids in building classrooms and trailers. And that is complete insanity. A trailer classroom (aka learning cottage) is abysmally crowded with just 20-24 desks and kids. There is simply no sane way to fit 35 + kids, particularly teenages, in a trailer classroom.
Bet the geniuses in the state and county DOEs haven’t thought through that, either.
Rich
May 24th, 2010
12:03 pm
There is another way. It’s called raising taxes.
But because your politicians are too chicken**** to even contemplate that idea, largely because you’re too selfish to understand that it’s a necessity, this is what you’re left with. You get what you’re willing to pay for.
Joy In Teaching
May 24th, 2010
12:04 pm
I had 29 middle school students in a classroom once. It was sheer hell. The echoing effect from all those little voices was enough to drive one insane. Also, we never could hear the fire alarm out there unless my students were relatively quiet and the doors were open. Apparently, the fire marshall never really cared about that.
Also, with more students comes more behaviour problems. And I’m pretty sure that the state isn’t about to give teachers any actual power to deal with that. I actually had a conference a few weeks ago because a parent felt that I looked at her child wrong. Took about 20 minutes out of my life that I’ll never get back.
So much for hanging on to our # 48 ranking.
Blue State
May 24th, 2010
12:07 pm
This is what happens when Republicans are charge of government in Georgia; only tax cuts for the wealthy mean anything. Put a Republican governor, senator or representative in front of a class of 35 middle school students every day for a week and class sizes would soon be back to a reasonable number. The Republican Party is the party of big business, the wealthy and privileged, and those with power, not the common man. Georgia is getting exactly what it deserves for electing ultra conservative politicians who are out of touch with reality of the everyday life.
Northview (Ex)Teacher
May 24th, 2010
12:07 pm
Fedup,
Not soon enough.
A Happy Parent
May 24th, 2010
12:07 pm
Reinforces my decision to put my daughter in a private school. I encourage all who can to get there kids out of the system. Best decision I ever made!
teacher man
May 24th, 2010
12:17 pm
screwed
Fed Up
May 24th, 2010
12:17 pm
FULTON COUNTY FIRE MARSHALL- Are you reading this ??????
concerned DCSS parent
May 24th, 2010
12:19 pm
Does this also change the class size limits for gifted classes? Maureen, do you know?
Disgusted
May 24th, 2010
12:25 pm
Maybe the State Fire Marshall can weigh in on the class size now…how many students are safe in the room provided.
Newsman
May 24th, 2010
12:27 pm
Another increase in college tuition. On top of one 2 years ago and another last year. Hmmmmm and how much are the football coaches making? Sounds to me like some the increases are passed along to keep the high paid coaches happy.
Make Do
May 24th, 2010
12:27 pm
As a taxpayer, I say enough. The school system like everyone else must make do with what the have. I’m sorry but we are all in a bind. The budget issues may result larger classes and less individual time with each student. I know it is an “out of the box” concept but parents may have to spent time with the childern helping with their school work rather than relying on overwhelmed teacher. Or if parents have more money than time, send them to private schools, but stop the whining.
GO BLUE
May 24th, 2010
12:28 pm
GABuckeye37
Maybe that is why this person is an EX teacher. GO BLUE!
I_Teach
May 24th, 2010
12:34 pm
I teach gifted….Our numbers went up last year…from 17 to 19 in elementary for this current school year. We will find out this week if our numbers are going up yet again.
I was interested in the “back when we were in school, we had…” comments….SO NOT relevant now.
Yeah. My first teaching job? Catholic school. 33 first graders. No paras. No planning periods. *I* was IT.
No time for much remediation….! Thankfully, the amount of ‘assessing” and individual planning required back in 1985 was negligible compared to what is required of today’s teachers.
Today’s teachers are expected to have individual learning plans in place for each child; are constantly doing individual assessments….it is ridiculously time consuming when you have 22; I can’t imagine how horrifying it will be for them when their numbers hit 25+. The hours of planning (all NON-compensated, of course) is staggering. At our school teachers are required to meet a minimum of three times per year for each student.
Hmm. Wondering–should my colleagues bring in sleeping bags?
ThrashFanMax
May 24th, 2010
12:36 pm
Being an educator and former government employee I can tell you that anything you do to expose the grift and corruption of the politico in charge will be met with ire. The AJC will not keep your name out of it, in fact they will run to the top and ask if you are telling the truth, so don’t expect the AJC to be a friend or supporter or freedom or of the right of whistle blowers to tell the truth about what is going on in government.
Now as far as education goes. Privatize some parts of the system. Food service and transportation can be done more cheaply by a private company, and oh if you do not want your current workers laid off…include them in the contract. Sell the company your buses and equipment or turn it over for the use of the new operators. Now this saves on salaries, benefits, maintenance, and many other levels. Hmmm oh and why don’t the systems look at privatizing building maintenance as well…again with the caveat on the contract that they hire current employees. DUH……
Now we cut millions there in large systems, let us look at the state level and central office staff. First superintendent pay should be cut 25% across the board, but especially in counties where teachers are being laid off. Second, superintendent contracts should be modified and perks such as car allowances, housing allowances, bonuses, expenses accounts, and pay for unused leave should be removed from ALL of these contracts. NO ONE reimburses teachers for their expenditures in their classroom and they make 25% of what these supers do. State level, cut staffing at the DOE to minimum levels and that staff should take just a many furlough days as teachers must take. LEGISLATORS listen up—-MAKE GAMBLING LEGAL and allow paramutual betting….keep tourist dollars at home and bring in new ones, oh and make sure that it is legal in some of the poorer areas of the state. COBB COUNTY–in your own survey a majority of respondants are begging you to raise the millage rate…we are all willing to pay a little more to make sure our kids are taken care of.
I also suggest that you school systems reconsider the cut off dates for Pre-K, K, and first grade…some of us have intelligent children ready to learn and you have empty seats that could have children in them but refuse to let our kids in because their birthdays are after Sept. 1, so it is private school for my child which puts a financial burden on me even though I pay my property taxes and can not use the services because of bureaucratic stupidity!
Corey
May 24th, 2010
12:38 pm
You can have all the best education you want, and we’ll keep your property taxes at 1980’s rate. Not! The Democrats in Congress and Mr. Duncan want to throw local school districts a lifeline, but the Repubs we keep sending to Washington from Jawga(who now claim they’re fiscal conservatives)aint having it.
ThrashFanMax
May 24th, 2010
12:41 pm
This is not a blue/red or dem/rep issue…the education systems have been screwed over by both parties…..you can have fiscal responsibility and a quality education system…..
Put this together….school spending keeps going down and criminal justice spending keeps going up….studies correlate this…the more you spend on education the less you have to spend on criminals!
Private School
May 24th, 2010
12:45 pm
Thank God for private school. I pay school taxes but get nothing to show for it. I then pay $11,000 a year for two kids in private school. Where the class size is 28. The school is a NCLB blue ribbion school, and consistently scores in the top 10% nationally.
Non-renewed educator
May 24th, 2010
12:46 pm
I would like to invite state and local superintendents to try to manage a class of 40 high school students and the new state mandated math curriculum at the same time. Not so strong in math? No problem, oh grand poohbah. Let me see you manage 28 kindergartners in one room…. go ahead, bring the press and cameras and make this educator’s day!!!
The Atlanta Journal Constitution Reports… «
May 24th, 2010
12:51 pm
[...] on the State Board Of Education that has voted 9-2 in order to get rid of class size limits. Share and Enjoy: [...]
Unbeliveable in GA
May 24th, 2010
1:01 pm
I can’t believe that our children’s education is being taken for granted. When the students that have a hard time learning gets mixed in with the problem students, the problem students are going to get all the attention. What has this world come to?
SQ
May 24th, 2010
1:04 pm
I love reading these articles because it makes me so happy I moved my child out of Atlanta,GA!!! Our school is awesome in the state we live now!!
T'VILLE DAWG
May 24th, 2010
1:08 pm
You might as well take a year off, some everyday people need one on one help and they won’t get it this way. The way to fix the problem is to encourage local governments to have a special local option sales tax to help with the shortfall, we did here and we built schools and repaired old ones and made other improvements. All of us need to stop sending or local moneys to Atlanta for them to redistribute and give back out. This is the perfect time in our country to reassert our local rights as couties and states. They won’t have so much to piss away anymore. Freedom starts at home, lets stop the big governments now!
Embarrased in GA
May 24th, 2010
1:09 pm
The state of public education in our state is an abomination. Why, because the republicans in this state have somehow managed to convince the vast majority of citizens that “taxes” are a bad think and must be reduced/eliminated at every opportunity. What happens when taxes are not collected, well, among other things, public education suffers. Perhaps it will take the situation hitting “rock bottom” before the citizens (at least those with children of school age) start demanding the elected “leaders” fix the problem. Meanwhile, our state will remain mired in the bottom 1/4 of national test results, and who will suffer because of it – our future, the children.
protecting
May 24th, 2010
1:10 pm
PARENTS are you cultured or educated?
“…accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.” (US Declaration of Independence)
When do we decide to abolish the forms that the School Board is accustomed too? When do you decide to go attend one of the “hearings?” When do you decide to hold these people’s feet to the fire? ENOUGH! How many of these people are up for election? How many if US are willing to serve? Run for office? Build a PARENT COALITION at our school? As a community stop abdicating our authority over our children to a poltical machine (school)? Not jut pulling our children out to homeschool but doing what I read here, renting a factility and starting our own community schools?
“Will you join in our crusade?
Who will be strong and stand with me?
Somewhere beyond the barricade
Is there a world you long to see?” (Les Miserables)
SamE
May 24th, 2010
1:17 pm
Shame on the State for poorly managing our school systems, education is vital if Atlanta and it’s metro counties want to stay on the map. This is an outrage.
john konop
May 24th, 2010
1:17 pm
Kathy Cox increased her staff at the DOE by 25% since 2006 and the local districts took care of high paid management while cutting teachers. This is not going to fly with voters.
Before we laid-off any teachers we should of done the following:
1) Cut the DOE by at least 50%
2) Cut all administrators salaries by 20% making over 6 figures.
3) Cut all administrators by 20%
4) Require all administrators to teach 1 class.
5) Charge a fuel fee to make bus service revenue neutral
6) Charge a fee for all extra activity at the school to make it revenue neutral
7) Put a freeze all new building and see if we can use cross utilize existing space ie high school class space for colleges courses at night.
Put a freeze on all travel and entertainment expense at the local level as well as the DOE
9) Increase lunch fees at a rate that it becomes revenue neutral
10) Solicit volunteer community help for office and class room assistants
It is very difficult to ask people to sacrifice when management will not do the same!
Olivia
May 24th, 2010
1:20 pm
Georgia needs to increase property, income and sale taxes, but do not touch class size limits. Increasing class size far from being a solution would create much more problems: safety problems, performance problems, teachers morale.
GO BLUE
May 24th, 2010
1:20 pm
I agree with John Konop. Why some many DOE employees to start with ?
BeBe
May 24th, 2010
1:24 pm
FYI to the State Board: There is a direct correlation between student/teacher ratio to the success of the students. We’re already at the bottom nationally – nice going.
Idea
May 24th, 2010
1:26 pm
Put the kids on strike. Next year maybe we should all keep our kids home for the first week of school. Maybe they will listen. Isn’t some funding based on days attended?
dekalb parent
May 24th, 2010
1:30 pm
You really think I can trust the Dekalb School Board to make this kind of decision after the decisions they have been making already this year? Please? More penalties to go on my childrens’ back for lack of misspending money from the state and county.
Big Al
May 24th, 2010
1:31 pm
The Great State of Georgia has spoken. Face it, education is a second priority item in this state. Where are you Zell Miller when we need you?
Smooth
May 24th, 2010
1:44 pm
It’s hard to believe that educated individuals don’t use common sense. We may as well let the students make the decisions. The educational systems need a lot of new leadership not a bunch of educated fools that’s not concerned with the students future. I can only hope that Mrs. Cox’s replacement use their head and not for the only purpose a hat or weave.
JohnD
May 24th, 2010
1:45 pm
Zell isn’t the answer. He endorsed Sonny, remember? How about the General Assembly cutting income tax for retirees? How smart is it to remove a tax source in a critical economic situation? If the politicians want to cut income taxes on retirees, then do it only for middle income. Wealthy people can afford to pay.
Andy
May 24th, 2010
1:46 pm
In my second grade class in 1968-69, there were 37 students. Granted, we were awaiting construction of a new building to ease crowding, but I grew up in a rural district of modest means; over 90% of the children in my class still attended in the same district AND graduated from high school. Your teachers first have to be aimed in the right direction.
Concernedfultoncoparent
May 24th, 2010
1:50 pm
I am very concerned about the raising of class sizes next year. They are stating that it will only be for 1 year but what will change so it is not a constant over the next several years. My son was in a kindergarten class with 22 students this year with a teacher and a parapro. Next year, the class size will increase and there will be no parapro, how is that possible? Our children deserve better than they will be receiving and our leaders wonder why our test scores are so low. Also, they are cutting CRCT for 1st grade next year which has pros and cons but seriously what will they cut next just so they can pad their own pockets.
protecting
May 24th, 2010
1:51 pm
“Next year maybe we should all keep our kids home for the first week of school.” OH NO the powers that be thought of that go read “O.C.G.A. 20-2-690.2 ”
In particular the part of Truancy being more than 5 days unexcused absence in a single school year.
Elect new folks into office!!!!!!!!!! Preferably very new.
high school teacher
May 24th, 2010
1:52 pm
Andy, when you were in school in 1968-69, you probably didn’t have classmates who suffered from fetal alcohol syndrome, ADHD, autsim, or any other disability. Those kids were in “special class” or not in school at all. This is not 1969.
protecting
May 24th, 2010
1:55 pm
“Wealthy people can afford to pay.” So earn more money so YOU can pay more! Redistrobution of the wealth is not the answer.
Dekalbite
May 24th, 2010
1:55 pm
Better idea – vote all incumbents out. That’s all the state of Georgia legislature and the DeKalb BOE cares about – power. Well, they had the power and look what they did with it. I just hate Sonny is not running again so we could vote him out too.
A Happy Parent
May 24th, 2010
1:56 pm
It’s what you get when you let the government educate your children.
protecting
May 24th, 2010
1:57 pm
Fulton County is keeping parapro in Kindergarten as of May 6. Did that change?
high school teacher
May 24th, 2010
1:58 pm
How will the class size affect systems who already gave out contracts to teachers? Can they rescind a contract less than a week after it was given out?
Concernedfultoncoparent
May 24th, 2010
1:58 pm
First grade will not have parapros and I definitely think it is needed in 1st as well.
Rich
May 24th, 2010
2:02 pm
Good, the residents in each county should be able to decide how to run the schools without the state or the federal government interfering. Maybe setting some quality standards, but it should be minimal.
TeacherescapedGeorgia
May 24th, 2010
2:05 pm
This is the reason I left Georgia and went back to Alabama to teach. The state board of education does not have a sense of reality when it comes to the education of students. Allowing Superintendents to make $355,000 a year is ridiculous. They should take a 20-30% hit minimum on their salaries if they are willing to layoff thousands of teachers in their systems. The Alabama Education Association stands up to the legislators when they start talking layoffs and the only layoffs that are taknig place are with local funds. Central Offices in Georgia have too many people making way too much money. Cut at the top because the foundation will suffer cutting from the bottom with teachers.
hairydawg44
May 24th, 2010
2:05 pm
I can tell you the reason that our elected officials from all across the state have little regard for public education: their kids, no matter where they live, don’t go to public schools. There are private schools all across this state and for the most part that is where their kids go. So if they have nothing invested in the school system like all of us do, how can we expect them to care? Vote them all out, every last one of them. Republicans. Democrats. All of ‘em. Let’s get some people in here who care, who have something invested in things other than themselves and making money for themselves.
Rich
May 24th, 2010
2:06 pm
We the parents can solve this issue. Go to your school board and ask what it will cost to have smaller classes and then write checks to cover that amount. You can not continue to ask government to do it the way you want and ask everyonetop pay for it. If you want it bad enough, you should be able to find a way to pay for it.
Mel
May 24th, 2010
2:07 pm
Class size wouldn’t be nearly as big an issue if we could do away with inclusion. If students were grouped according to ability to some degree, more students could be taught the same material at the same time. This would reduce many of the discipline problems and help ALL students reach toward their full potential.
Lisa B.
May 24th, 2010
2:09 pm
Andy, I too, was in large elementary school classes during the late 1960’s. Schools didn’t have the behavior problems we have now. Children who misbehaved at school had consequences at home. Teachers were respected then, and are often perceived now as the enemy. Children did a lot of practice at home, and many of us had stay-at-home moms to greet us after school. Special Ed kids rode a different bus and went to some other location. This isn’t 1968. Some things are better now, some things not, but it is what it is, and teachers teach whoever walks through the door.
Jabberwocky
May 24th, 2010
2:11 pm
So, most of the highly paid personnel in the administrative offices of metro school systems have valid teaching certificates. I have heard this proposed in the past. Instead of keeping them in the ineffective ‘coordinator/coach/etc. positions, why not put them back in the classroom……all of them……at regular teachers’ pay. Save money, reduce class size…..I do think a lot of them would resign, though, given that ultimatum !
teacher
May 24th, 2010
2:11 pm
Maybe the govt needs to get out of the education business altogether and let the private take over.
We are watching it implode with each day and it may be for the best.
Less taxes, better education….
Rich
May 24th, 2010
2:13 pm
Removing the limit does not prevent our local schools from having smaller classes.
TeacherDawg
May 24th, 2010
2:15 pm
You make the kids suffer!! Then blame the Teachers!! Wow!
Rich
May 24th, 2010
2:15 pm
Mel, very good point, that is what it was like when we had larger classes. In the old days, not always better than today just different.
Rich
May 24th, 2010
2:17 pm
TeacherDawg, most teachers are not the problem. I vote that it is the parents.
rob
May 24th, 2010
2:18 pm
Bailout grown people who made stupid mistakes, and now compound the problem by hurting the next generation who will have to pay for your mistakes! Enough already! How much ignorance can the public stand by and watch in times such as this before they reach the breaking point! I pay my bills, my taxes, do my share, and for that I see those who do not get away with such as this. Must be a better way to run a country, a state, and a local government. I will vote out ALL incumbents next election and for many to come. SICKENED!!
Rick Fussell
May 24th, 2010
2:18 pm
I once trusted the public school system since I was raised in but now I have NO trust in it at all. Thanks a lot SONNY and KATHY for ruining every kids education. NONE of you care about the teachers.
Upset Mom of 2 in Public School
May 24th, 2010
2:19 pm
What in the world?? The state cut education funding by $1 billion??? The elected officials in the state of Georgia do not value public education. It is really a sad state of affairs. I think that the millage rate should be raised as should other taxes so that our children and the future of our state is not put in jeaprody. If I could leave Georgia and move to a state that values public education, I would. The good private schools are cost prohibitive for me, yet many, many people have no problem shelling out the money for tution — why not shell out a little bit more so our public school system can thrive. Do whatever it takes Georgia — we have to put our children first.
Corporal Punishment, USMC Ret.
May 24th, 2010
2:20 pm
It’s time for me to be called out of retirement. I have been away for too long. I can already see that the teachers in public schools are going to need my help. It seems to me that too many children do not get any/enough discipline at home and when you add more bodies to a classroom, the odds are high that one or more are going to be disruptive to the whole group. I remember the good old days when I was called in to redirect the attitude of a mischievous student. My favorite saying was “bend over and grab your ankles”. I just want to go on record to say that while I may be rusty, I am ready, willing and able should I be recalled for duty.
Rich
May 24th, 2010
2:21 pm
Upset Mom of 2 in Public School – We can not continue to try to get more money from everyone else. They are out of money too.
KennesawMa
May 24th, 2010
2:21 pm
I also came from a school where 28-32 kids were the norm – without any parapros or parental involvement. I admit I turned out Ok – graduated from HS and College with honors. I will say that 30 years ago, we respected our teachers and principal. We would never get away with what happens now in class – we wouldn’t have ever thought about speaking back to a teacher in Elem or HS.
As for class sizes here, I worry about the actual space in the classroom. I do not see how they can pack 10 more kids into our small rooms (school was built in the late 50’s). Also, speaking of waste, over the past 2 years, the kids have had science and history books that they haven’t even opened!!! Why buy books if they don’t correlate to the curriculum?? there is SO much waste in the school system and it is sad that the teachers and students will have to pay the price instead of the admin, District and school board.
The Business
May 24th, 2010
2:28 pm
It’ll get worse. Trust me.
Fed up with Public Education
May 24th, 2010
2:30 pm
It is so sad that the state wants to put our kids on the back burner. Already they are teaching our kids to test not retain information and nopw they what to increase the class size. I am tired of hearing them talk about we need to increase our kids scores so they won’t be on the bottom compared to other states but then they always turn around to do something dummy that puts the education of our children in last place. I see that none of them have a child in public school so they can probably care less at what type of education our children are getting yet along the type of environment or shape of the class or building(s) that they are in.
Dekalb TOTY
May 24th, 2010
2:32 pm
Does ANYONE in this state understand that the educational system is broken? When bad teachers, over paid county office personnel, and parents continue to run schools, there is NO WHERE TO GO BUT DOWN!
I know of no other profession where a layperson can dictate how run day-to-day operations. Parents are not trained educators. Most county personnel went straight from college into administration. Bad teachers don’t even know how to teach in the first place. Teachers NEED TO TAKE BACK THEIR PROFESSION before it is too late. EVERY TEACHER IN THIS STATE SHOULD BE ON A PICKET LINE! The community does not understand what the state is doing to the future of our children.
God help us, because we can’t seem to.
protecting
May 24th, 2010
2:36 pm
How about this idea:
If YOU have a child in a public school you pay $5K/kid/year to the school that the kid attends. If you CANNOT pay you do $5K/kid/year in services to the school. It is paid QUARTERLY and can only be used in that school year/that school. An oversight board made up of the PARENTS governs the expeditures of this fund. This fund can be used to pay for parapros, media personnel, PE, Art and Music teachers, etc. It CANNOT be used to pay administration, fixed assets, housekeeping/food supplies etc type of expenditures. Janitoral/Groundskeeping etc would be supplemented by the parents who are exchanging their labor for tuition.
I just did the figures for Cobb County. They had a fiscal budget of just over $927,000,000 in 2009 (transportation, food, admin, teachers, facilities everything) and had approx 107,500 students enrolled. That was $8,627.26/kid spent that was funded somehow by the BOE. you take that same 107,500 kids and add the “tuition” fee I propose and you get a $14K/child expense as opposed to $18 – 20K in private school (Lovett, Marist, and Holy Innocents’ were the comparisons). The tution fee I propose would net $535,000,000 in fees/services SURELY that could do some good in the schools of Cobb!
Rich
May 24th, 2010
2:36 pm
Fed up with Public Education – It seems that so many parents are expecting others to do the job of parents. It is our job to educate our children, yes you are responsible. Not the federal government or the state government or other people to pay for it.
Perspective
May 24th, 2010
2:39 pm
In Japan class sizes are 30 or more students per class and yet they still learn. What’s the difference? Culture. The students there come from a culture that values education and that respects the teacher. Here we have a culture and a couple subcultures that see school as a place to drop off their problem children, who expect the school to raise their kids, who don’t teach their kids to respect teachers or the value of an education. Doesn’t matter what the class size is if the culture of the students disrespects education. End of story.
CommonSense
May 24th, 2010
2:40 pm
Larger class sizes, teachers who can’t teach…Sounds like an Obama utopia to me. Keep ‘em ignorant and don’t let them know it.
Anyone who leaves it up to the government to educate their kids, deserves what they get…especially when so many of them go up to their lake houses each weekend. Do what is right – put your kids in private schools, demand a tax reduction for an offset, and put the public schools on notice that if they don’t perform, they must go away.
Linda
May 24th, 2010
2:43 pm
In response to the request of several parents to beef up the math and science curriculum at my daughter’s parochial private school, the principal said that parents send their kids there to get them away from the distractions and poor behavior of public school classrooms, not to get a good education.
Fed up with Public Education
May 24th, 2010
2:49 pm
Rich- I am a firm believer in that. That is why BOTH of my kids are on the Honor Roll/Principal’s List. My reason for being tired of the Public School System is because things have changed tremendously over the years. I come from a family of educators not just on my maternal side of the family but also paternal side so I am very aware of what I have to do but regardless of what is doing at home it also has to be done at school too. So if the ADULTS that took on these responsiblilites to educate our children don’t care then they need to find a new job. We are not sending our children to school to be watched over but to LEARN.
Dekalb TOTY
May 24th, 2010
2:50 pm
CommonSense…it’s not public education that is broken. There are many public schools that can compete with private schools. What’s the difference? Good teachers! As a high school teacher please allow me to tell you that if we could get rid of the bad teachers in public education, many things would be different. Instead teachers are paid such low wages (even lower in private schools) that true intellectuals won’t step into a school building. Those of us who try to teach critical thinking, teach rigor, and teach with passion, are here because we love teaching!
Charter schools may save the day yet!
Todd
May 24th, 2010
2:53 pm
Northview teacher
You need to go to a good liberal state like NY or Caifornia. They are in much better shape right?
Concernedfultoncoparent
May 24th, 2010
2:54 pm
I agree with some public school children having behavioral issues but coming from a parent who does discipline her child, what about teachers that just can’t handle their students. Or that they can not even speak the English language properly and we are allowing these people to teach other children. I don’t know what the answer is but we as parents need to take control of our own children’s education.
Greg
May 24th, 2010
2:58 pm
Every dollar cut from Dept of Education will be spent by Dept of Corrections later!
Howard
May 24th, 2010
2:58 pm
This is outrageous….NO LIMIT on class size…Our Republican controlled Georgia state government has done just about everything it can to ruin public education in Georgia and turn back the clock on treating public school teachers as professional educators. Frankly, my dear, Georgia Republicans don’t give a damn about public schools, teachers or students and they have shown as much for the past eight years. Enough is enough.
Rich
May 24th, 2010
2:58 pm
Concernedfultoncoparent – Seems to me that teachers have responsibility, but no authority to manage the classroom. The kids who cause the trouble control the classroom with assistance of the parents and sometimes the administration.
Matt
May 24th, 2010
3:01 pm
Hmm, article on Georgia being #1 in prison population and having higher class sized. Am I the only one who sees a correlation between the two problems?
Todd
May 24th, 2010
3:08 pm
Stop complaining here and email your representative today! Let them know that you will fire them.
http://www.legis.state.ga.us/
Saul Good
May 24th, 2010
3:10 pm
Yet still a school system had 16 MILLION dollars to pay for turf….
Please post sign at all entrances to state:
Geowrga: Last in edjumukation and darn prowd of it! Go fishen!
-(brought to you by 8 solid years of republican control of GA).
Thanks Sonny!
Hecka of a job Coxy!
Julian
May 24th, 2010
3:11 pm
It cracks me up to hear teachers complain about how hard they work and how tough their days are when they are constantly updating their Facebook or My Space status from school and spending the day forwarding emails.
A couple of teachers I know think ridiculous is spelled “rediculous.” Pathetic!
Rich
May 24th, 2010
3:11 pm
Matt- Seems hard to draw a correlation, since the class size limit was lifted this week. As the prison article said, it has much to do about being hard on crime.
The Business
May 24th, 2010
3:13 pm
Rich….seems like you have the financial means to remedy this situation. Go for it!
Carmen
May 24th, 2010
3:17 pm
This is unreal…First, the ajc reports the superintendent’s salary and later in the day this… Do our political powers that be even care about our children or their future?
1. Gwinnett’s superintendent makes about $17K less than the President of the US and claims that it is a fair salary because of the ‘pressure’ of running a school system of 158,000+. (He makes approximately $2,400 per student.) Is $17K the real worth in pressure between running the largest school system in a state with one of the lowest performing educational rankings vs. being the leader of one of the largest countries in the free world? REALLY?! C’mon Wilbanks – you need to cut your salary in half! I would LOVE to see what YOU have done for my child with the $2,400 she has made for you!
2. Many of our teachers are under-paid and under-appreciated for the service they provide. They are TEACHING our children how to become responsible individuals (and hopefully with morals and values). Today’s youth is our future. So unless, you like the idea of supporting your children for the rest of your life or want to live out your retirement days in a third-rate state-run nursing facility — STEP UP and support our education system.
3. Our teachers are currently facing furlough days (Gwinnett has scheduled their for right before the Christmas holidays!?! – when most people need $ the most), hiring freezes, layoffs, increased class sizes, taken away teacher-assisted funding for school supplies, limited parapros, and already spending $ from next year’s budget – which they can’t balance to begin with. If our budget shortfall is that severe, then impose a consumption tax that everyone pays for based upon the items they purchase.
4. School lunches are another area that is in need of attention. Our children’s waistlines are increasing at an alarming rate, along with childhood diabetes and other weight-related illnesses. Lunches are no longer nutritional, but rather conveniences. For example: my daughter came home telling me that her elementary school provided students with a ‘fruit-flavored’ popsicle as their fruit option and french fries as the vegetable option to go along with fried chicken nuggets or pizza. How hard is it to set out fresh apples, bananas or oranges for a fruit and corn on the cob or steamed vegetables?
I encourage everyone to get involved and vote out all the stupidity that is currently running the BOEs. Let’s make our children and their education a priority!
Cammi317
May 24th, 2010
3:17 pm
This is outrageous! Guess I am going to have to cough up the money for private school next year. Even the brightest students are going to have trouble staying on task in the midst of these overcrowded, understaffed and out of control classrooms next year. I guess Georgia is content to remain on the bottom of the totem pole….
Rich
May 24th, 2010
3:19 pm
The Business – Not I do not, but that is the point. No one has the money. We need to educate our kids with what we have. No one has the money.
clueless
May 24th, 2010
3:22 pm
When I was in school the classes were large – and grouped by ability, and discipline was enforced. Chewing gum was a big offense then.
Booklover
May 24th, 2010
3:23 pm
In Savannah during St. Patty’s Day, there are bouncers at the door of each bar, keeping occupancy below the maximum. Deputy fire marshalls are on duty all week, and they are very strict about issuing tickets to bar owners who violate the fire codes. I have been in some of these fine establishments that were at fire code maximum, and they were less noticably crowded than my classroom with 31 high schoolers and desks, etc., in it.
Of course, the fire marshalls can’t make any money off ticketing the schoolsfor fire code violations, can they?
It’s really sad that the local gov’t is more “concerned” about the “safety” of a bunch of drunks than the safety of schoolchildren.
Jazzy
May 24th, 2010
3:32 pm
They got the number of students per class lifted and now they will have 50 students to a class and let the teachers go!
A legal immigrant
May 24th, 2010
3:33 pm
how bout not letting kids of illegals attend schools at no cost. After all, they’re not paying property taxes (or any other taxes for that matter). We’ll have enough room in the classrooms classes then. Make them open their own, privately funded schools – they don’t really want to be part of society anyway.
hairydawg44
May 24th, 2010
3:38 pm
Hey Julian, a couple of things. First, most schools have blocks on social networking sites so that is likely not true. Second, what sort of professional are you? Whatever that may be, let’s get all of your colleagues on a board and I’ll pick them apart too! You pulling one example and making gross generalizations proves your ignorance.
The Business
May 24th, 2010
3:40 pm
Let’s be honest. All of us should take away from this economic “correction” the fact that many individual households, private business operations, government operations, and all others in between operated above and beyond the means that were necessary to actually operate. This is the time for all of us to sit back and recognize that what is essential may not be the “excess” that would have allowed us to keep up with the proverbial “Joneses.”
This entire fiasco can be traced to the housing market and the housing market can be traced to intrinsic greed. Now, the children who had nothing to do with this reincarnated Babylon, have to suffer. The loss of jobs, the loss of homes, the loss of hope can be attributed to the loss of common sense. We as Americans know better now, and even knew better then, but the proverbial “Joneses” won out over common logic.
When the cloud lifts from over America, we must sit back and determine what is necessary and teach our children the same thing. That way, when this entire event tries to rear its ugly head again, our children will recognize it and overcome it.
As a veteran educator, I never thought I’d see the day when teachers would find it hard to find placement, but here we are. This is a teachable moment.
Sid Camp
May 24th, 2010
3:43 pm
“local school boards can be trusted”
LOL
UNION!!!!!!
spf15
May 24th, 2010
3:43 pm
Carmen,
I’m not defending Wilbank’s salary, but check your math. $382,819 / 158,329 students = $2.42, not $2400.
Saul Good
May 24th, 2010
3:45 pm
legal…. let’s make this PERFECTLY CLEAR…children of illegal immigrants do NOT get a “free ride” to attend public school. Their parents pay RENT. That RENT pays a LANDLORD. That LANDLORD pays PROPERTY TAXES… it is PROPERTY TAXES (as well as local SALES TAX items like splost) which the fund local school systems. So if we went by what YOU are saying (that the illegal immigrants send their kids to our schools for free)….it would mean that anyone who DOES NOT “own” a home and pays “rent” sends their children to school for FREE!
So besides paying RENT (which pays for those property taxes the landlord pays)…they also pay SALES tax every time they make a purchase just like you or I do.
If you TRULY believe that the “problem” with the school system in this state is due to illegal immigrants…you’ve been watching too much glenn beck, sarah (I Quit) palin… Children of illegal immigrants are NOT the ones who have caused this problem…the 8 years of republican control…out of control spending by them…tax breaks and handouts to all of their rich friends (which took away from taxes that SHOULD have been collected) and no rainy day fund for when the “development” and paving over of GA came to a grinding halt is what caused this issue.
I’m sure there are plenty of other “race” haters on other kkk-inspired blogs you can join up with today. The problem… well look in the mirror…
Fatty McBuffett
May 24th, 2010
3:49 pm
Lottery Money is being squandered. In theory we should have more money thrown at education that ever. However, things keep getting worse. Teachers paying for supplies out of their own pocket. Fewer teachers. Who the hell wants to be a teacher in Georgia. I sure as hell don’t and you college kids think hard about it before you choose that as a profession. I have several friends that are teachers. Every single one of them from all different counties are worn out, frustrated, and at whits end. Did I mention the pay is not good. Certainly not worth it.
mom_247
May 24th, 2010
3:57 pm
And after moves like this by the state board of education, more and more families will be moving to charter schools or homeschooling than ever before!
I am SO grateful to be out of the educational field!
Jose Cuervo
May 24th, 2010
4:01 pm
Saul Good makes me giggle
julie
May 24th, 2010
4:09 pm
Sounds like vouchers would be a good solution now. If the parents have more choices it just might cause some competition between the schools and cause them to do better. I bet alot of parents would leave public schools if their tax dollars followed their children. No more overcrowding!!
Killiangsu
May 24th, 2010
4:16 pm
A lot of you have done this to yourselves. You heard from a neighbor that if you called the local tax commissioner that you could get your property taxes lowered, you did, and guess what? You are now paying less property tax (sometimes a decrease of 2 – 4%) which means if you paid $2,500 in property tax last year, and this year you pay $2,400 you saved yourself $100.00. Good for you, now there isn’t enough revenue to pay for education, because most of your property tax goes to the local school districts.
Oh and by the way, unemployment is at an all time high, so less state taxes out of less paychecks.
To the posters that keep complaining about College football and Basketball coaches making over a million a year, you too need to bone up on some facts. At Ga. Tech for example, the coach’s salaries is paid for out of the Athletic Associations. This revenue is generated from Ticket sales, that UGA shirt you bought at Wal-Mart, and TV rights, your tax dollars do not go to them. So if Paul Johnson or Mark Richt get $4.5 Million a year, it’s not because you paid for it unless you paid for a ticket to see the game.
I truly feel bad for all of you teachers that have to teach in these school systems, you are under appreciated and under compensated for the jobs you have to do. You deal with kids whose parents have no interest in their education until that student fails your class and then they blame you, yet they haven’t spent 1 hour helping them with their homework, ensuring they have studied for your tests, or teach them general respect for your position.
Saul Good
May 24th, 2010
4:18 pm
Julie….Vouchers? And WHERE is it that you think they’ll get the $$$ to pay for those? The cost per student per district will still be the same. The school systems are BROKE…I’m afraid that vouchers are NOT the answer out of “this” particular problem.
Joel Dockery
May 24th, 2010
4:20 pm
I’ve had about enough of the crap about small class sizes, schools need more money, teachers are heroes crap. Give me a break. It’s just a smokescreen for the real agenda, which is to perpetuate a bureaucracy that cares more about growing in size and influence than about teaching our kids any remotely useful skills for life.
RSC
May 24th, 2010
4:20 pm
There is no logical reason why any school superintendent, let alone any school superintendent within a state ranking dead bottom in education, should be making a salary even half that of the POTUS.
Saul Good
May 24th, 2010
4:23 pm
Julie,
Vouchers? A solution? How are those to be PAID for? This is a “budgetary” issue and the “cost per student” in each school district would certainly not be available to pay for vouchers. With at least THIS current problem the school system is facing…paying for vouchers is just not an option.
Jose Cuervo
May 24th, 2010
4:27 pm
Saul good makes me laugh
pw
May 24th, 2010
4:32 pm
Parents please wake up and recognize that the state of Georgia DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE EDUCATION OF YOUR CHILD. They care about their pay packages, education junkets and exit agreements for the Superintendents. YOUR CHILD’S EDUCATION IS NOT CRUCIAL TO THEM. IF IT IS CRUCIAL TO YOU THAT YOUR CHILD BECOME AN EDUCATED ADULT, START EDUCATING YOUR CHILD AT HOME.
Jokester
May 24th, 2010
4:33 pm
My children are in a suburban Atlanta school system. Larger class size is not what these children need. Larger class size will mean “all children left behind”. These teachers are not teaching college classes full of adults, they are teaching children who are in need of 1 on 1 guidance and instruction. THEY ARE CHILDREN!
We need more funding for the schools to allow SMALLER class size. Fund the REAL teachers not the administrators and BOE employees. Programs like gifted are even at high limits, 30 children to1 teacher. How is larger class size going to effectively allow time for our children to maximize their success? What can we do as parents to change this and how can we best advocate for our children on these issues? Cutting languages and exploratory subjects? Yeah, I am sure cutting a few teachers and their salaries is really going to make the change we need…NOT! Staff has been minimized and cuts made from so many places but it is doubtful that the cuts being made even equals the salary of the average Superintendant. CUT FROM THE TOP… that is where the big bucks are… but not where they should be!
Natasha
May 24th, 2010
4:42 pm
No limit to class sizes? Are they SERIOUS? When is the last time these wackadoos were anywhere near the inside of a classroom?
Saul Good
May 24th, 2010
4:44 pm
Here’s a PERFECT example of some of the WRONG kinds of teachers that GA hires (and pays):
http://www.ajc.com/news/teacher-lets-students-wear-534319.html
Jose Cuervo
May 24th, 2010
4:49 pm
Saul Good is hilarious. I hope people realize you are joking.
Rich
May 24th, 2010
4:54 pm
Jokester – I think that the solution is parental involvement. That includes working with the kids outside of class, which I assume you do, but not all parents do. The other thing I would like to see is parent in the classroom. Not the 3-5 parents that are always helping, but the 25 parents that may show up for a meeting with the teacher. A class of 30 students will have about 60 parents (some less and some more), if each parent could spend 3 days in the classroom there would be an improvement in behavior and probably the learning environment.
Einstein
May 24th, 2010
5:08 pm
Perhaps if so much $ wasn’t wasted on the CRCT (many others states decided to drop it, including Texas who invented it) we would not be in this situation.
mfgayan
May 24th, 2010
5:14 pm
The duplication of central office services in this state was disgusting in a good economy. While I usually support local control wherever possible, it’s time to fold the sometimes numerous city school systems into county ones. That’s got to save a huge amount of money.
Scott
May 24th, 2010
5:39 pm
Let me get this straight. You expect the local school boards to do right by the students? This is the same local boards that give raises to the front office staff while freezing teacher pay raises? While giving additional furloughs so the number of days educating the kids is reduced?
These are the same boards that lay off 20+% of the paraprofessional staff and HS teachers due to budget while not laying off a single front office or administrative staff person?
These are the same boards that reduce the budgets of the science, math, etc. departments while giving their own assitants more funds?
Yes, Kathy, we the public can trust that they (and you) will do right by the kids. What a shame!!
spf15
May 24th, 2010
5:42 pm
mfgayan, Re: “numerous city school systems”. Of the 159 counties in Georgia, only 22 have more than one public school system, and only two of those counties support 3 public school systems. There is certainly room to argue that Georgia should combine overhead by combining COUNTIES, but “numerous city school systems” seems to be stretch.
Tony
May 24th, 2010
5:42 pm
The governor and legislature have raped the education budgets during the last eight years. School systems can not make the money appear out of thin air in order to keep class sizes low. While it’s easy to target “overpaid” central office workers, in most systems this would account for only a pittance. As observed in recent articles by AJC there are a couple of exceptions to this, but most school systems do not pay such extremely high salaries and they do not have 10 central office staff for every teacher. Put the blame where it belongs – Governor Sonny Perdue and the Georgia Legislature for not having enough backbone to stand up for the needs of our students.
Fed up former teacher
May 24th, 2010
5:48 pm
It would be very interesting to find out where our elected officials children attend school.
In Gwinnett here are some salaries it came from a public website:
J Alvin $387,9340.10 travel expenses $6,659.12
Director of Media 86,754.00
Planning Evaluation $83,840.04
Instructional Supervision $ 65,989.00 travel $2040.48
IS Personnel Support $83,840.04
Instructional Supervisor $116,974.32 travel $1553.67
Human Resources Personnel $77,039.04
Construction Manager $78,371.04
Special Ed. Support $91,845.04 travel $2167.69
Instructional Supervisor $82,506.88 travel $2527.20
Personnel Human Resources $114,010.05 travel $1490.12
Director of Curriculum $159,574.00 travel $3,259.20
Middle school Principal my old evil boss $105,147.00 travel $2496.38
Where are they traveling?
RBN
May 24th, 2010
5:58 pm
When will parents and teachers realize what has happened to Georgia, wake-up and vote these clowns out of office. They happen to be Republican. I don’t care. Elected leaders should care more about the 1.75 million children in public schools than Georgia Power, tobacco companies, and insurance companies. If you want to see how they really work, go on the Georgia Ethics Commision website http://ethics.georgia.gov/Reports/Lobbyist/Lobbyist_ByGroup.aspx , and look under lobbyist reports, type in Georgia Power, and 2009, when they got their billion dollar sweetheart deal. $100 plus dollar meals, concert and ball tickets worth $200 plus to both political parties. Teachers and school children can’t get you in to Chops.
Sadly, only about half the incumbents have any opposotion at all.
Could be the closing period ending so early was a well-timed accident.
Glad
May 24th, 2010
6:09 pm
Glad I’m getting out this year. Don’t know if I’ll be going back to education. Maybe the school systems wouldn’t be in as bad a shape if those not on the front lines weren’t making the big bucks!
sim
May 24th, 2010
6:12 pm
Georgia gets what it deserves, Sonny and his Republican cronies get the rest.
Kira Willis
May 24th, 2010
6:16 pm
Maureen,
I will be happy to be the first candidate to step up to the plate and weigh in on class size.
Genuine local control is a wonderful thing; however, the DOE has once again given “local control” in one area, but has neglected to allow it in others. Given real local control, and not just a money saving option with “local control” engraved on it, schools could be freer to actually give the community what it wants in regard to education: a multi-track diploma, an opportunity to opt out of the new math curriculum, the ability to offer more arts and electives or any other concern for the community school. As a teacher, I am not in favor of increased class sizes simply because I understand how the increase can negatively affect students. Increasing class sizes will only be acceptable if it comes with legitimate local control and a reduction of positions that have little to no contact with students.
As a Libertarian, I am whole-heartedly in favor of local control, but it must be authentic and complete. Can we allow parents and teachers a voice in the way THEIR schools are run? I remember a time when parents and teachers actually participated in local PTAs instead of just writing a check at the beginning of the year or not joining at all. I suspect that the lack of participation is not due to apathy but frustration, a feeling that their concerns have been and will continue to be dismissed. Parents have been pushed out of the schools, allowing local boards of education to become mini-dictators within their respective counties, and parents and teachers feel powerless to step in and offer common sense perspectives.
I believe that the community, not the state, knows what is best for its educational institutions. Genuine local control, genuine local decisions for schools will benefit students.
If the DOE really wants to give counties decision making power and allow the parents, teachers, and community members a voice, then I would agree to the elimination of class size, but it does not; this is a cost saving measure under the guise of giving a voice back to the people. If the school board is willing to give some control to the schools, then the board needs to allow teachers and schools the power to actually run those schools without interference from the state. Larger classes can work but only if teachers, parents and community members truly have control of their children’s education.
As a product of publice school, a teacher in public school, and a parent whose children will attend public school, there is a choice for our children; I would like to be able to be the voice for classroom teachers and parents.
Kira Willis
willisforstatesuper.com
Steve ...
May 24th, 2010
6:22 pm
Everyone has a gripe, but no-one is coming up with ideas! How about home-schooling? How about a small neighborhood group school … with all the out of work teachers, someone could lead the group! How about churches stepping in to help start small groups … that’s all the rage now for Christian learning! How about thinking out side the box?
To add insult, we are soon-to-be empty nesters … can we stop paying school taxes?
Real Concerned
May 24th, 2010
6:24 pm
I say the teachers STRIKE and make the administrators and the board teach the students until they come to their senses. The teachers CAN refuse to accept this!
Steve ...
May 24th, 2010
6:25 pm
Sim … you are an idiot … please do not pass on your genes! Come up with ideas … can you still think without the government telling you what to think? Ask your leader NoBama to spend more money … that’s the ticket … you are an idiot!
Saul Good
May 24th, 2010
6:36 pm
Steve….WHY is it again we have no member for education? Obama was running this state, the BOE, and all the local school boards as well…RIGHT???
Oh…I almost forgot…he was running the banks down here and approving all the unsecured loans with no documentation and was building house after house with his developement company as well…ALL the while HE himself… he was giving handouts to GA corporations and huge tax cuts to them to help deplete our tax role…. yup. This is CLEARLY Obama’s fault.
While we’re out it…. how about some small MUSLIM community schools we can set up? Think we can use some tax dollars for those as well?
That’s right folks…you heard it from Steve here first…Obama was running pretty much EVERYTHING in GA for the past 8 years and we all need to blame HIM EXCLUSIVELY for this issue!
Signed,
Epstein’s Mother
C/o Sarah “I quit” Palin and Glenn Beck
Last day of teaching tomorrow
May 24th, 2010
7:05 pm
After struggling to control and teach my overstuffed English classes for the past few years, I’m leaving public education. It’s impossible to teach 32 students with a wide spectrum of abilities and needs, not to mention more than that next year. Plus, grading for 200 students eats up every evening and weekend, and we all know there isn’t pay to compensate for that. I love my students, but all of the fight has been taken out of me. I’m exhausted and very disenchanted.
Started Teaching in 1972
May 24th, 2010
7:09 pm
I challenge ANYone to teach my class for one month. I teach in a very affluent school in Fulton County. However, I have taught lower socio-economic students for over 20 years. I would like the politicians to have to do the federal, state, and local paperwork I have to do to prove my “accountability” while actually teaching. Teaching has become minutiae. After you get the required paperwork done, there’s little time for teaching! Students suffer!! If I could *teach* for five and ten years down the road, instead of five months from now for “The Test,” my students would be so much the better!
Also, where in NCLB or any federal, state, or local policy or edict is the parent or the student held “accountable?”
Didn’t think so! Everything becomes the teacher’s responsibility. Pay for performance? Only when parents and students are also held accountable.
I rest my case.
Diane
May 24th, 2010
7:14 pm
This is why I homeschool. How can any teacher truely teach if the classroom is so packed with students that they can’t even walk by the desk to give help?
Gina
May 24th, 2010
7:22 pm
To Killiangsu, I didn’t ask to have my house reassessed, but Cobb did it anyway. My value just went down 12%. Things are going to be even worse next year when the revenue to the school system gets reduced by all of the reassessments.
jokester
May 24th, 2010
8:29 pm
Rich, I agree with you. You are correct, I am an involved parent. Being involved has made me more frustrated. I have noticed we used to have more parent involvement, but with this delightful economy, we have found more two parent working families which decreases the amount of daily-weekly parent involvement. I agree, parents need to be involved with the education of their children… and that first step might be making to commitment to be involved in some way once a week in a classroom if the teacher wants that kind of parental involvement. A cap at 30 children should be the limit by law in all elementary grades, fewer in grades k-2. Parent involvement benefits not just the students, but the parents as well. An involved parent is an informed parent in more ways than one. Parent involvement is part of a solution, towards the greater good of Early Education, but will not keep class sizes low.
Oh Please
May 24th, 2010
8:43 pm
If every county in GA paid for the education of ONLY that counties students then districts like Cobb may not have had to lay off 700+ employees. Has anyone noticed that Cobb’s contribution to QBE is almost the same as the budget shortfall? So your children in Cobb schools suffer while your Cobb tax money is shipped off to bumble county to pay for educating its students! Whose millage rate is 1/2 of Cobb’s and there are no cuts in that counties education because they just got all of Cobb’s money!!!
QBE needs to go bye-bye…Sonny needs to go Bye-Bye…stop wasting money!
You pay for what you get…Parents would you pay $3.00 a day for your child to go gain an education that no one can ever take away from him or her, to help him or her become productive members of society? Or do you want to pay an average of $60,000 a year to house ONE inmate? Or do you want all your tax money to go to unemployment and food stamps for those future adults who can’t get it now in a class of 40?
Do the math…If I have a class of 40 6th graders and those classes are 50 minutes…each student gets 1.25 minutes of my time each day!! Really? Quality education at its best….
Formerpublic/nowhomeschooler
May 24th, 2010
9:05 pm
As a former public school teacher, class size matters, it is a joy to teach a class of 20-25, stress if there is more… Paperwork is overwhelming, no time to teach…
Now my kids are homeschooled since last year after being overlooked and underestimated at public school. I don’t blame the teachers, they were great and were overwhelmed! Now that the school year has been cut to 175 days and larger class size I know I made the right decision!
PARENTS! Consider Georgia Cyber Academy, virtual PUBLIC homeschool.
@ Fed up former teacher
May 24th, 2010
9:10 pm
Wow! Your employees are cheap. You should see DeKalb Schools!
Julian
May 24th, 2010
9:22 pm
Dear Hairy Dog 44, Unfortunatey, I’ve been on the receiving end of their messages so I do what I’m taking about. The general comments on their FB posts are “Im sick of these kids,” “I need a drink” “Who wants so to go out tonight.” I know one teacher particular who found a way around websites being blocked. What is 20% for the downpayment on my house and how do I calculate it. WTF?. The teachers I know do not have the educations or creditials to begin to teash kids anything beyond basic colors.
My credentials, for the record, I work in the corporate world and have earned an MBA and I working a second masters. I’m definately not ignorant, just speaking from experience and behavior I have witnessed from teachers in several counties.
RIF'd Teacher
May 24th, 2010
9:27 pm
For those teachers that lost our jobs this spring, this means that there will not be new classrooms created after the Fall 10-day count. The chances of being hired back later this summer or early fall just dropped dramatically.
@ Julian
May 24th, 2010
9:39 pm
I worked in corporate and education. I remember being amazed in the late 70s when I moved from education to corporate that I didn’t have to save paper clips. Wow! There’s an unlimited supply of paperclips.
In sales, I came to appreciate the “50 pound phone” as hefted it to cold call customers. I did fine and made a lot of money, but one casualty is I despised talking on the phone at night – even to friends. And I was so tired of sucking up to customers in the day that I began to think I would give anything never to have to put a smile on my face again. Always pleasant, the customer is always right, my product is the greatest even if it isn’t – business has it’s downsides just like teaching.
Actually, there are pros and cons to both worlds. Unless you’ve worked in both, it’s hard to understand the frustration of each world.
Drifter
May 24th, 2010
9:40 pm
Maybe now I’ll be able to talk my spouse who is now teaching into returning to a career where she can make decent money. You can’t discipline the students, you can’t get rid of the problems and you get practically no support from the do-nothing administrators. And don’t waste your time talking to the parents. Unlike in my day, their child is always a victim. (Note to parents – if you’ve been called into conferences because of discipline problems, you’re the problem).
Just when you think we’ve hit bottom, the state starts digging. If you’ve got children in public schools, you need to start looking for a way to fund a real education for them.
May 2010 News « read…write…eat…drink
May 25th, 2010
12:34 am
[...] Bad News: Georgia continues fall from grace, grace being the elevation granted by one tiny thread holding it up above Mississippi. I’m talking about education [sic]. [...]
Tweets that mention Class size: After state board vote Monday, the sky’s the limit | Get Schooled -- Topsy.com
May 25th, 2010
2:24 am
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Will Richardson, AJC , AJC , Angela Byrd, Branden Ford and others. Branden Ford said: RT @LoveMiracleJ TRAVESTY #thatisall Class size: After state board vote Monday, the sky is the limit http://shar.es/mYSFp [...]
SWGA Politics » State School Board Allows More Local Control
May 25th, 2010
5:31 am
[...] my news (including blogs), facebook, and twitter streams, it became readily apparent that this wasn’t [...]
Science Teacher
May 25th, 2010
7:15 am
I sat in a meeting yesterday and was told that basically there was nothing we could do to remove disruptive students from the room. Trying to meet AYP means that the students have the power and the know it.
adam
May 25th, 2010
7:41 am
Hairydawg44, you hit the nail on the head. !!! Good for you.
Limits on Class Size Removed | The Atlanta Post
May 25th, 2010
8:20 am
[...] Read More… Click here to cancel reply. [...]
Lew
May 25th, 2010
8:23 am
Nobody seems to be focusing on the fact that the state has cut funding to local school systems for eight consecutive years now. Do the math! Local school systems are not receiving full funding for anything. Sonny and crew will have reduced the state’s share for public education by close to FOUR BILLION DOLLARS by the end of the FY 11 Budget cycle. Why aren’t you critics focusing on where the problem originated?
Spec. Ed. Teacher On Hiatus
May 25th, 2010
9:43 am
As a special education teacher, I am very curious to see how this will eventually impact class sizes for special education classes, ESOL, and gifted classes. All of which, I believe, are protected by federal laws governing their class sizes. I know, for example, that with special education, the class size is based on the disabilities at hand. (For example, you WANT a smaller teacher-student ratio for a class for behavior disorders, verses a class for students with specific learning disabilities.) However, how -for example- will this play out for classes that are co-taught?
I am forever glad that my daughter was born when she was (spring of ‘09), so I was able to become a temporary SAHM… I loathe the day when I must re-enter the teaching workforce, in order to send my daughter to a good school. I pray every day that one will still exist by the time she reaches first grade…
Not telling today
May 25th, 2010
10:06 am
Drifter–I was called in for behavior issues. I was NOT the problem. The administrators had known me for years and knew that I worked hard to attempt to get the child to behave. Turns out she had some issues going on that kept her from learning, even learning the basics of behavior I was attempting to teach her —this happens with “high functioning” austism too–the child is considered a behavior issue, blame the parents, find out the child is hardwired that way.
In my case a very smart “old school” administrator who had spent years in a classroom had a brillant idea. She said, let’s see what the child is really telling us. She (the administrator) said the child is telling us she is not capable of processing this information at this time, lets DEMOTE her to the grade below and see what she does. Well we did and child responded immediately. At the same time I found a wonderful doctor who rooted out her issue in learning–one who thinks that ADHD is over diagnosed by the way. Again immediate results–a calmer child, a happier child, one who is actually enthousiastic about learning. 18 months later, this child has FINALLY learned the rules of behavior and more importantly executes them. She is on par with her true peers even if they are not chronologically the same.
EducationCEO
May 25th, 2010
10:27 am
Here’s a novel idea for all those with kids in the public education system here in Georgia: If you have the ability to miss 2 days of work this Fall, keep your kids home during the FTE count days. Those are days when districts count their students to see how much funding they will receive from state/federal dollars. If they feel that funds are threatened, they will listen to you. Trust me.
FCM
May 25th, 2010
10:56 am
@ KIRIA WILLIS #1 question in this voters mind…do your children/will your children attend public schools?
Kira Willis
May 25th, 2010
11:34 am
Yes, my children will attend public school. I am a public school teacher, and my husband is a high school administrator; our children will attend public school.
AMAZED
May 25th, 2010
11:41 am
@PRIVATESCHOOLPARENT on the first pg…I would love to know the private school your children attend two for $11,000 that is an unbelievable deal!! National Blue Ribbion?? top scores??? Please, what school??? I pay over more than that for one. I would love to know???? Please tell! I would love to look into that one.
Wayne Nurrenbern
May 25th, 2010
2:50 pm
I would just like to say that in the last few years in the counties I have been in I have seen a brand new city hall, brand new police station, new jails and road work. What I have not seen any new schools any upgrades to the old schools or any postive things for education, I would say that the money is somewhere just not in the right places.
Jennifer
May 25th, 2010
3:15 pm
Linda Zechmann is right. Someone needs to set boundries, these districts will not.
Rebecca
May 25th, 2010
5:13 pm
Here’s what we need to do: Increase class sizes in the upper grades, but staff each classroom with one truly top-notch teacher and one assistant. Teachers shouldn’t have to waste 20 minutes of a 55 minute planning period making photocopies. They should design and implement lessons and interact with students. The only way to make this happen is to figure out how to better identify new talent, so that adminstrators can make better hiring choices. Advanced subject matter knowledge and charisma aren’t the things to look for in an applicant, in my educated opinion, although, of course, they don’t hurt. Intelligence, flexibility, and a firm handle on methodology are.
Overachiever, Under-compensated
May 25th, 2010
6:29 pm
Having read many (not all) of the comments posted here I can truly say you have identified the key issues:
1) No limits mean NO LIMITS. EXPECT Upwards of 30 in all classes 4th grade and above and possibly that many in K as well (w/ a para)/
2) Little if any individual instruction
3) No extra’s – craft projects, field trips, guest speakers? Forget about it! No time to plan or implement any of that.
Maribeth
May 25th, 2010
7:03 pm
I wanted to comment on I_Teach’s statement about how doing individual assessements on 25+ students would be a nightmare. I know of teachers at one CC elementary school who currently have to do individual planning and assessments on 40 students because the kids change classes in the middle of the day.
class sized take a hit in georgia | Education 3.0 | The Online Learning Blog on Colleges, Careers & Education
May 25th, 2010
7:38 pm
[...] is in a crazy bit of financial woe. It’s Board of Education voted yesterday to eliminate all limits on class sizes. Described as an emergency response to a worsening financial climate, The 9-2 vote means that [...]
LOLO
May 25th, 2010
10:32 pm
Georgia suffers from a “trashification” viewpoint towards basic education and quality of life items provided by local governments. People need to realize that their hatred of the federal government need not extend to those who are trying to provide rudimentary local services. People complain about being the bottom of the barrel but refuse to put their money where their mouth is and pay up for services. I’m even talking to you fellow conservatives.
hector
May 26th, 2010
7:44 pm
Does anyone else think it is pathertic that the primary limiting factor in class sizes will now be your local fire marshall?
cobbtchr2
May 28th, 2010
8:45 pm
@ TeacherTeacher— hmmm.. how will GA fare in test scores?? Is it even POSSIBLE to go ANY lower??? what is this state—next to last???!
This year i was forced to move grade levels, move rooms, have to take 5 furlow days and payroll step increase freezes etc… and they want me to do an AWSOME job in 2010-11???!!!
With 35 4th graders, and the BUTTLOAD of stupid, innane, repetitive “data” and “documentation” they have you doing day in and day out??? hmmm. time to use all those “sick” days i’ve accumulated….
cobbtchr2
May 28th, 2010
8:50 pm
@ jabberwocky
You are SO RIGHT!!! if half of those idiots who make up those idiot policies from their ivory tower, were forced to join us here in the REAL teaching world, they would be GONE in a week’s time!!!
Let’s see if their fancy rhetoric could help them then!
cobbtchr2
May 28th, 2010
9:02 pm
@ Julian–
uhhh… how EXACTLY do you know that those teachers are spending ALL that time on Facebook and My Space??? could it be that YOU are on there too??? talk about the pot calling the kettle black…..
and let me see some of YOUR posts… bet i could find a BILLION spelling/grammar/ usage errors…
Pathetic!
gasheatmanontario
June 14th, 2010
6:10 pm
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How are your kids' class sizes this year? | Momania: A Blog for Busy Moms
August 19th, 2010
12:21 am
[...] From Maureen Downey’s May 23 Get Schooled Blog: “Described as an emergency response to a worsening financial climate, The 9-2 vote means that Georgia school districts can raise class size by 5five, 10, 15 students — or as many students as they choose — without seeking a waiver from the board or the Department of Education.” [...]