Which students suffer most from teacher layoffs? Anyone surprised it’s poor, minority students?
With cash-strapped systems across the country resorting to laying off teachers, there is increasing concern over which teachers are being let go and why. Now, the Center on Reinventing Public Education at the University of Washington says seniority-based layoff policies disproportionately affect the programs and students in their poorer and more minority schools than in their wealthier, less minority counterparts.
The center looked at 15 largest districts in California and found that teachers at risk of layoffs are concentrated in schools with more poor and minority students. (You can read the entire brief “The Disproportionate Impact of Seniority-Based Layoffs on Poor, Minority Students” on the center’s Website.)
According to the center:
In these districts, if seniority-based layoffs are applied for teachers with up to two years’ experience, highest-poverty schools would lose some 30 percent more teachers than wealthier schools, and highest-minority schools would lose 60 percent more teachers than would schools with the fewest minority students.
The analysis concludes: “Where districts seek to minimize the effects of budget reduction policies on students . . . it is clear that the disproportionate impact of seniority-based layoffs on high-poverty and high-minority schools must be considered.”
In reading the brief, I found this comment interesting as there has been little discussion by policymakers and school boards in Georgia about the impact of teacher layoffs in Georgia:
So what’s the effect of these layoffs on students? For those who believe teachers are interchangeable, swapping out a junior teacher for one from across the district might not seem so problematic. And yet, a growing body of research has documented that “churn” in teachers in some schools is in-deed problematic, particularly to its ability to function coherently. When schools see more teacher turnover, established relationships are lost— such as with families and teachers, between teachers, and with principals and teachers. Teacher turnover means that process of building and sustaining working relationships starts over. Additionally, site-based professional developme and teachers reassigned may be unhappy in their new assignments. All of these fagether to further destabilize schools with high turnover, to the detriment of students
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153 comments Add your comment
jbm
May 21st, 2010
12:20 pm
PBM
How about the City of Atlanta School system. Have you read the stories about the CRCT cheating? Over 50 shcools in the City of Atlanta School System were cheating.
Or maybe Dekalb County where 3 people where actually indicated for their part in the cheating and entered gulity pleas to felonies.
Booklover
May 21st, 2010
12:34 pm
@jbm “If you [sic] so concerned about these “poor” kids take one home.”
With paycuts, student loans, etc., I can’t afford to take one home.
I do, however, teach them everyday and provide a caring, stable adult in their lives.
It’s very easy to do as you do, hide behind a computer screen, make inflammatory comments, and not do a d*mn thing to change all the problems you’re complaining about.
It’s a lot harder to get up every morning, go to a job that earns you little but public scorn, teach kids who are sometimes recalcitrant and often hungry and sleepy, and provide a shoulder when they need it.
Proud Black Man
May 21st, 2010
12:36 pm
@ jbm
Once again “…where the school is not over run by thugs and baby mammy.” What does a thug or baby mammy have to do with a SUPPOSEDLY cheating scandal? Please see a neurologist to get your frontal lobes repaired.
Truth
May 21st, 2010
12:51 pm
Some of these administrators are cheating with each other when responsible for testing in our schools. Is it no wonder they would cheat on the test itself. Look at Gwinnett County’s Richard’s Middle AP and GIVE West Middle APs. Both testing coords. were busted having an inappropriate relationship and the mess does effect our kids.
too much drama
Poor Pay Taxes
May 21st, 2010
12:55 pm
The state is primarily funded by sales tax. Everyone regardless of your income pays sales tax. As a matter of fact, the sales tax is a regressive tax because poor people spend a higher amount of their income on sales tax than their middle and upper class counterparts. So everyone should get the best services the state can provide. 87% of people in the poorest minority communities actually do work. So they contribute to society. I will admit their lack of education and marketable skills prevent them from generating incomes that can pull them and their neighborhoods up but let’s not throw untrue statements out on a blog. When was the last time some of you actually spent time in a neighborhood volunteering, getting to know the residents, and trying to understand the true conditions from which they live under. I do. I don’t see all of this driving with rims, and bling that somehow all of you who don’t go into these neighborhoods see. Tell me how do you really know what is going on in a community if you don’t go there to see for yourself. QUIT THROWING OUT ALL OF THESE FALSE CLAIMS ABOUT WHAT POOR PEOPLE ARE DOING, IF YOU DO NOT SPEND TIME WITH ALL OF THESE SO-CALLED POOR PEOPLE.
Truth be Told
May 21st, 2010
1:00 pm
Just look at it from the perspective of The Golden Rule: He who has the gold, makes the rules. Translation: As long as the majority of the wealth and power in this country are in the hands of whites, guess what? We will continue to make the rules, and everyone else will just have to play by them. Now we do throw some bones every once in a while, 1964 comes to mind. However, the reality is that until the Black population is able to surpass the white population in wealth and power, nothing is really going to change. At the rate of progression I’ve seen by the black community since 1964, I can honestly say that it won’t in my lifetime.
H
May 21st, 2010
1:03 pm
@PBM-
And what do republicans depend on? I’m patiently awaiting your answer.
Ohhhh….did I strike a nerve with my controversial post? This will be the only time I respond to you because you # 1. Are most likely not really black. # 2. Believe what I say is true but elect to argue and oppose… just to play the devils advocate. # 3. Would be a waste of my time… Sorry to speculate so much but that’s the feeling I get…so to answer your question, “most” republicans depend on the core values and belief system of the people in this country…
Stephen
May 21st, 2010
1:07 pm
@Proud Black Man
So it’s white people (or Amerikkka, as you so eloquently put it) that don’t care about education in minority-majority areas? Why don’t you look within for a solution to your problem, rather than playing the victim, as you seem so apt to do. The black COMMUNITY, as a whole, doesn’t value education. Black children, who strive to achieve in school, and speak proper English, are ostracized for trying to ‘act white’. For far too many young black people, their role models are rappers and athletes, who contribute little more than entertainment to society, and in many cases, add to the epidemic crime statistics perpetrated by blacks. If, and when, the black community itself starts to value the education of their youth, THEN you can start to blame all your people’s educational woe’s on whitey. Until then…this is just more victim-mentality nonsense, perpetuated by leadership that would rather blame someone, that DO SOMETHING.
Did Cynthia Tucker Write this Article??
May 21st, 2010
1:07 pm
So, lets get this straight… If I layoff 30% of the teachers from a poor school, but only 10% of the teachers from the rich school… What happens with the remaining teachers? Some of those at the rich school get transfered to the poor school. The result? The poor school now has more experienced teachers than they started with. Sounds more like an upgrade to me.
Jim
May 21st, 2010
1:08 pm
Poor Pay Taxes
Your numbers are off. The state is primarily funded by personal income tax. In 2009, the state had $15.6 billion in revenues. $7.8 billion was from personal income tax. $5.3 billion was from Sales and use tax. BTW, about $4.7 billion of that was paid by people making more than $100,000 a year, which is less than 10% of the filers.
See here: https://etax.dor.ga.gov/oic/2009stats/TLP_WebStatReportFY2009.pdf
Stephen
May 21st, 2010
1:09 pm
*THAN do something.
Poor pay taxes? HA
May 21st, 2010
1:12 pm
So, you claim that the poor pay more taxes because the state is funded by sales tax…
What things should a poor person be buying…? 1. Food – NO state sales tax. 2. Clothing – there is a sales tax holiday on this as well, again NO state sales tax, 3. Housing – There certainly isn’t a tax on your section 8 housing.
Oh, but yea, you do spend a lot of money on booze, fancy cars, guns, and of course your cell phone, all of which have excessive taxes.. but as a poor black man, you shouldn’t be spening your money on any of that.
Elizabeth
May 21st, 2010
1:14 pm
I never mentioned race in my post. Thee are forgotten silent majority/minority students of all races. Majority was used because I believe that these children are the neglected NUMBER majority of kids who receive little azttentin because teachersa are too busy dealing with disruptors of ALL races.
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Angela
May 21st, 2010
1:39 pm
Hello Everyone & Poor (oh excuse me) Proud Black Man,
The focus here should not be poor people and education. The focus should be do “I we want an education so that I can at least live comfortable.”
I grew up in a housing project in the city of Atlanta and come from a single parent home. I now hold an Ed.S. (Education Specialist) degree in education and writing my dissertation. Not all poor people lack education or desire. I am 54 and most/many of whom I graduated high school with are now professionals. And, we all grew up in the same area if not neighborhood (projects). Perhaps, you should speak of a generation change and not all poor people.
I teach in a low income school In Dekalb County) and my students in second grade can all read on a 4-5th grade level and are very eager to learn. Do most of my parents get involved, at least 80%. My second graders out of 21, all but 3 passed the CRCT. I did not administer the test to my class so no one can say we cheated. So, here again not all poor students are dumb and unwilling to learn. I also, have one male student who passed a three areas and my very well become a statistic however, he will more than likely be the last to become a statistic because he is more of a leader to those who are not so bright.
Proud Black Man – it is obvious that you are PROUD but I would also, say a MALE that lacks a lot in his life. Perhaps, your family life growing up was not what it should have been this is why you are lashing out. Might I suggest mental therapy. It can be free if you go to GRADY!
(I would love to start a BLOG about why many males have trust, love, honesty, etc. issues. Most of which begin with mother’s not being mother’s to their sons not because they come from a single parent home -Just food for thought).
XOXO
@ Jim
May 21st, 2010
2:17 pm
“Remedies can be implemented that do not cost any money. These remedies include a district policy that distributes teachers at schools based on some mix of seniority rather than giving teachers the choice of where they teach based on seniority or having merit-based layoffs instead of seniority-based layoffs.”
Sounds great. And DeKalb County Schools settled a court case in the 1980’s by doing just that. Many, many experienced teachers were moved to schools in low income areas to rebalance the experience ratio. However, since teachers in Georgia can teach wherever they want, they quietly began to leave the system through retirement and/or changing to another system (Gwinnett and Fulton were top attractions). Within the decade, the situation was the same – teachers with greater seniority were concentrated in the Northern, more affluent part of the county and teachers with less seniority were concentrated in the Southern, less affluent part of the county.
You can’t really make a teacher stay in a school unless he/she wants to stay. If you try to make them, they will eventually leave the system. Now in NYC, if you are sent somewhere and you don’t want to work there, you can lose your certificate. Is that what we need in Georgia – forcing teachersto stay and teach where they don’t want to teach with the threat of punishment if they don’t? Maybe we do – NYC does have a strong union. No one is getting laid off there. But there are trade offs and going where you are sent to teach is one of them.
I agree that teacher turnover is a terrible problem – especially in low income neighborhoods (I have a nephew who teaches math in rural Tennessee in a very low income all white school that has the same problems – it’s not a black/white issue at all). My sister and I have been trying to get my nephew to change to another system where the parents are more supportives so he will encounter less stress. Less stress for the same amount of pay – does everyone unerstand that?
Nothing is as simple as it looks on the surface. I’m a retired teacher and I know how tired you get as you get older and remain in teaching. Teaching is really a young person’s game. I think as long as you have 3 to 5 years under your belt, experience becomes a moot point.
Now attracting and retaining competent, enthusiastic teachers to teach in low income situations is the real challenge, no matter if they have 5 years experience or 20 years of experience. My sister and I see how much stress my nephew undergoes trying to “bootstrap” up his students who come into his algegra class often not even knowing how to do long division. He is expected to ensure they master solving algebraic equations. If his scores don’t rise appropriately, he feels awful. Why wouldn’t we want him to go to a nice middle class school where most of the students come ready to learn and when the socres come out, he is complimented – all for the same pay? I think as time goes on he will consider this – he is becoming more and more frustrated.
We need to start thinking about to attract and retain teachers in low income schools. That’s something I never hear studies about.
Proud Black Man
May 21st, 2010
2:53 pm
Funny how the tea (fill in the name that cannot be mentioned) are “acting” so upset because I have no problem calling them on their racism. A quick glance at today’s headlines will tell you which way they REALLY would like Amerikkka to revert to:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/readersrespond/bs-ed-rand-paul-letter-20100521,0,4157518.story
And for their uncle tom steppinfetchits…you know exactly where you can go!
Seen it all
May 21st, 2010
3:25 pm
Ahhhh, it’s amazing the places you can go for free entertainment.
William Casey
May 21st, 2010
3:26 pm
I usually post here, but the level of discourse has degenerated to the point where I’ll simply “pass.”
drew (former teacher)
May 21st, 2010
3:29 pm
PBM…if you’re black, you need to lose the “victim mentality”, or to borrow one of your favorites, “remove the beam from your own eye”. It’s a big part of what’s holding your people down. And I guess you think Bill Cosby is an uncle tom, too. Right?
And if you’re white, you need to get a life.
Which students suffer most from teacher layoffs? Anyone surprised it’s poor … – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) | Minority business grants
May 21st, 2010
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[...] Which students suffer most from teacher layoffs? Anyone surprised it's poor …Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)I will listen to these “It's all about the chillins” argument when the teachers unions don't openly oppose efforts for the state to get some federal grants …Ed Dept: $437 million in teacher incentive grantsBusinessWeek all 249 news articles » [...]
the prof
May 21st, 2010
3:48 pm
PBM is craving your attention, don’t dignify this non-black person with your comments.
the truth
May 21st, 2010
3:57 pm
This should not be a surprise to people who now whats really going on. Middle class america your time is coming.This shouldnt be a white black issue from the comments i read earlier.Fist of all im black, and i graduated from a poor school.So this stereotype that most of us come out of school buying rims and cell phones are ignorant as the persons saying it.Even the middle class schools dont teach students to critical think they have the middle class right where they want also.So if you feel all high and mighty remember the worlds wealth is in a few hands and when people start to understand this the issue of class will be broken in the years to come.Money causes competition which in turns make man do whatever he can to survive in a world that has been built around this money that really doesnt exist in the first place.When corporate america falls the people will realize they werent rich at all just because you might stay in beverly hills dont mean you have enough money to be part of the elite that control the wealth.
Reality
May 21st, 2010
4:25 pm
Those schools are losing their teachers because that is where the ‘newer’ teachers are. The ‘newer’ teachers are there because as soon as they get any seniority, they transfer to the better schools.
Do you blame them? Who wants to go to work to try and help kids that don’t give a hoot about learning? It is the culture of those schools and those neighborhoods – THAT is the problem.
The parents there need to learn how to parent and raise kids properly. This means to respect adults, obey rules, don’t do drugs, and make education a priority. It really is that simple!
Teaching in FL is worse
May 21st, 2010
4:54 pm
I teach in a relatively wealthy county where the “poor” are either Latino or white, so I am out.
I would, however, suggest to some that they pick up some reading material by Ruby Payne. You will learn quickly that it is expensive to be poor. (regardless of skin color.) Generational poverty is bad enough, but the current economy is increasing the size of the underclass.
During the last administration the number of people below the poverty line increased an insane amount.
Proud Black Man
May 21st, 2010
5:11 pm
Funny how the tea (fill in the name that cannot be mentioned) sidestepped/ignored the comment about that racist from KY running for the senate who happens to be a favorite of the white right. Business as usual in amerikkka.
Just a Thought
May 21st, 2010
5:32 pm
I agree for those who want to understand poverty and its implications for school Ruby Payne’s work would be an excellent starting point. Just don’t stop with Payne. Her Understanding Poverty Framework work is very instructive and helps non-poverty educators start to understand the paradigm that accompanies being poor. I would couple Payne’s work with research into the Harlem Children’s Zone program by Jeffrey Canada. I agree with another poster that the poverty culture of today is not the same as it was 2-3 generations ago. We are dealing with a cultural shift that is more than race or income.
catlady
May 21st, 2010
5:37 pm
Forget the racism charge. Poor schools tend to get the least experienced teachers, which tend to be the ones laid off.
Poor schools also suffer because of high voluntary turnover, in part because of behavior issues.
I don’t think that it is due to racism. On an individual teacher basis, it might be true. But, in general, teachers volunteer to stay where they are happy. If there is a high rate of misbehavior or poor facilities, teachers will voluntarily leave.
However, the point of this is that teachers from these schools are INvoluntarily dismissed more often.
Lee
May 21st, 2010
5:38 pm
More politically correct BS. What the PC Pathogens want is to keep minority teachers regardless of ability or seniority. Probably the same bunch who cry racism when minorities are disciplined at a rate disproportionate to the population.
Wah, wah, wah.
@proud black man
May 21st, 2010
6:16 pm
Would it surprise you that most of the kids suspended in my APS school are black. Most of the criminals that I see on FOX news and Channel 2 news are black. I am in no way racist, but I really don’t like black people plain and simple. PBM call me KKK racist all you want but that doesn’t change the fact that black culture needs to change. One change needed is to value education. PBM come on and give me a wet, smacking kiss on the face like Sammy Davis Jr. did for Archie Bunker on that show. No before sanford and sons
the prof
May 21st, 2010
6:22 pm
PBM is a white person pretending….
Angela
May 21st, 2010
6:30 pm
@ Mr. Simple Just Don’t Like Balck People,
Thank you, for being honest. However, it has been my experience that most White/Caucasins that don’t like Black people really cannot explain why they don’t like us. I was always taught to dislike the individual not a whole race of people. But, regardless I don’t even know you but I like you because you are honest about your feelings. And, that alone let me know that I can trust you more than some others no matter what the race.
Here is a BIG WET KISS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
P.S. Antipathy causes the blood pressure to rise causing the heart to pump faster causing the heart to have a shorter life span. (SMILES)
the truth
May 21st, 2010
7:41 pm
This is for PBM when i watch cops and the news i see white black and hispanic getting locked up so dont play that race card acting like blacks commit all the crimes in the usa blacks are still a minority so if they did statistics for the entire usa you would find alot of whites on it.Think about it like this if i was the cia and i said lets put a new drug in the white community thats addictive and dangerous and see what happens over time your crime rate will go up housing prices will go down and the police would give up on the community does this sound familiar. Its funny how when i see black people that grew up in urban surroundings do well in life and stay out of trouble.The point of what im saying is your a product of your enviorment if you were born japan you would act like a japanese person.Most of the ghetoes have been torn down so in the years to come you wont be able to make excuses because of enviorment.
Proud Black Man
May 21st, 2010
8:18 pm
http://www.iespell.com/
Proud Black Man
May 21st, 2010
8:20 pm
“I am in no way racist, but I really don’t like black people plain and simple.”
My race has known that since oh say the early1600s. What else is new?
Virginia
May 21st, 2010
8:32 pm
I’ll just bet there are a lot of special education students-of any colour-who are being left out of this “minority” group. The minority groups really don’t give a darn, unless it’s someone their colour,something they are too busy blaming “rich,white republicans” of doing! Typical leftist garbage!
Proud Black Man
May 21st, 2010
9:54 pm
The last gasp or the tea (insert the name that cannot be mentioned):
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37271857/ns/us_news-life/?GT1=43001
Angela fact check
May 21st, 2010
10:20 pm
I teach in a low income school In Dekalb County) and my students in second grade can all read on a 4-5th grade level and are very eager to learn. Do most of my parents get involved, at least 80%. My second graders out of 21, all but 3 passed the CRCT.
If all of Angela’s students read at the 4th-5th grade level, why did three fail the 2nd grade CRCT?
bootney farnsworth
May 21st, 2010
10:43 pm
gee, race baiting again.
imagine.
Proud Black Man
May 21st, 2010
10:48 pm
yes imagine
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37271857/ns/us_news-life/?GT1=43001
http://chattahbox.com/us/2009/12/18/rand-paul-aide-quits-over-myspace-racism-afro-americans-have-kkk-radar/
Bob LeBlah
May 21st, 2010
10:49 pm
Proud black man is typical, failure is always someone elses fault. Now its money huh? Inner city Fulton county schools spend $14k per student. Cobb County spends just over $7k per student. Which students are more successful? HMMM
Keep up the excuse making.
Bob LeBlah
May 21st, 2010
10:57 pm
Proud Black Man’s dialogue with the public:
On a city street
Stranger (on cellphone): “That’s blackmail. Tell him…” (interrupted)
Proud Black Man: “What did you say? You racist!!”
Stranger (startled): “Huh? nothing? what are you talking about?”
Later on passing a playground
Stranger (child): “Hey be careful. The blacktop is hot.”
Proud Black Man: “So young and already a racist. Where’d you learn that from”
Stranger (child puzzled): “Just stares”
Proud Black man: (walks away, mutters) “So full of racism and can’t even speak”
Down the street further
Stranger (passing out KFC coupons): “Sir, could I interest you in a coupon”
Proud Black Man: “Why cuz I’m black?”
Stranger: “Umm no, its a KFC coupon”
Proud Black Man: “I know what it is. Do you think I don’t understand because I’m black?”
Stranger: “Well, no.. sorry!? I didn’t mean…” (interrupted)
Proud Black Man: “You white folks have some nerve.”
WideAwake
May 21st, 2010
11:28 pm
The problem with minorities (especially in the south) not getting a fair, good, and representative education is because they don’t VOTE.
They allow these fake politicians to take office and then they only represent their constituencies–(not the core group) thus they get all the benefits and we get the scraps.
Also, take government and these mundane rules out of the school system. I graduated from a public school, however, what I see are students in the urban area and parents who won’t fight or value a free education.
November 2010 is coming Isakson and Perdue must go.
OTOH
May 22nd, 2010
2:07 am
First, this article is about California public schools where the teachers’ union demanded and got seniority as the main determination for layoffs. Second, it is not layoffs/firings that causes the turnover at poor schools, but the benefits of seniority in the system, again a demand of the teachers’ union. More senior teachers get more choices about where they teach. It is not surprising that even non-union states, including GA, give benefits for seniority but when they do, do not expect there to be no trade offs for that policy.
ron
May 22nd, 2010
4:07 am
Would you rather have a hairdresser with five years professional experience or two decades professional experience? That’s not a fair question,to be honest it depends: for a stylecut that hasn’t yet reached mainstream I prefer the former and for reassurance I prefer the latter – and in most cases I get that.
I think of years of teaching experience in the same way.
My formula for a nice school to work at:
I prefer a 7:1 ratio (six experienced teachers of ten years + to one teacher of five years experience or less and some wiggleroom for one teacher in need of support due to a challenging student/life event/career crisis and/or in order to cope with major systemic changes within the education system that inevitably happen every three months or so).
Teacher burnout does happen, but it is more about the road travelled than the distance travelled. An unsupported teacher in a challenging school burns out quicker than a match.
The bottom 10% of our teachers are in the same situation as the bottom 10% of our students. How we deal with the former identifies our beliefs on how we should deal with the latter.
bootney farnsworth
May 22nd, 2010
7:46 am
if you really want to worry about what’s the most hamful to poor, minority students, take a hard look their parents.
then take a hard look at the culture of disrespect and disdain for
for education so many of them live in.
as educators we can’t care more for their education than they do.
bootney farnsworth
May 22nd, 2010
7:50 am
when “street cred”, looking like an inmate, and “keeping it real”
are more important than getting an education to a person or their
community, we can spend 1 million per student and still get nowhere.
bootney farnsworth
May 22nd, 2010
8:05 am
the simple fact is the dollars spent on education don’t matter.
what matters is how badly a kid wants that education.
AT GPC where I work we get kids from the worst kinds of situtations
-mostly non white, BTW -
who have dreams and the desire to work for them.
desire to work for them…..
ah, there’s the key.
Bob LeBlah
May 22nd, 2010
8:06 am
Seniority is a ridiculous criteria. Merit should be the criteria for someone keeping their job. That’s why the government hires and keeps dog#$&*
bootney farnsworth
May 22nd, 2010
9:01 am
There is nothing wrong with senority, provided its not used to
cover for ineffectual employees.
in the warped world of goverment, when contacts and neoptism
far outweight talent and effort, it often is the only protection
everyday hardworking employees have.