Saved by the bell: End of Legislature ends merit pay push for this year.

And finally, the GA state legislature got something right. Now, the discussion needs to begin with teachers from all over the state about a workable framework for assessing teacher effectiveness that isn’t based mostly on what students do on a standardized test.

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[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Maureen Downey. Maureen Downey said: Saved by the bell: End of Legislature ends merit pay push for this year. http://bit.ly/aKOxBM [...]

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Maureen, is there a chance you could find the blue prints for merit base pay that other states are trying to use. I am interested to see how they are setting it up.

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Great. Let’s keep the many, many incompetent teachers that we have in Georgia.

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Why aren’t parents accountable? they are the biggest problem in education.

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Go V!!!

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AJC daily circulation declined by 25 percent last year.

So in the name of “accountability,” does that mean all the writers at the paper deserves a 25 percent pay cut?

Same relevance as student standardized test scores to teachers’ performance.

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V, I already put my money where my mouth is. You are paid with my property taxes.

Here are some ideas that you will not like:

(1) Offer vouchers to parents to send their kids to any school they like. You & your union opposes this; nothing like maintaining a monolopy like education currently is in America. Afraid of competition?

(2) Teachers/Admin need to get out of the business of changing test scores. I am for one sick of hearing about all thses schools who are changing the kids test scores. What does the education system in Georgia do??? Assign other education “professionals” to review & decide the “punishment” of those found cheating. Funny to see teachers remain silent on this. I guess you prefer to have the fox guarding the hen house.

(3) Have only qualified teachers teach in subjects that they have been “trained to teach”. Amazes me that I still encounter math/science teachers who are anything but mathematicians or scientist. America is getting creamed by other foreign countries in this area simply because of the failure of the school system/teachers/admins who are along for the ride. I am an engineer & I do alot better job of teaching valid math skills to my kids than the school system.

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let’s get real. bad teachers are kept not because of bad administrators but big scary LAWYERS. And with the budget situation the way it is, its not cost effective to get rid of bad teachers.

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If you do not want the Feds dictating to us how and what to teach our children and if you want to get rid of this horrible HS math curriculum, then you have a choose in the upcoming Republican primary. If we do not make an organized effort to unseat Kathy Cox then you deserve then the teachers deserve the merit pay they will get. Dr. John Barge is running in the primary against Kathy Cox and he does not believe in RTTT or the Math curriculum and he believes in local control to determine what is best to methods to teach our children. Go to his website and check it out.

http://www.electjohnbarge.com/

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the merit pay issue isn’t about Cox or anyone else – it’s one of the planks of the Race to the Top money that Georgia wants. My blind trust comment was dictated to the smoke that Sunny put up to get teachers after Roy – and it worked – then the old Vet spayed and neutered things to the point we are now – reflecting back 8 years – Roy (looks like Matlock this time around – folksy image control, I guess) doesn’t look so bad anymore!

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“the state can’t pay for the system they have in place for teacher pay, right now – how could anyone with voting powers at the gold dome support it – merit pay means MORE – not LESS…”

According to Casey Cagle, the merit pay system would have been a way of balancing the budget. What does that tell you about the true intents of merit pay?

I wish I could vote for Barge, but I will have a democratic ballot so that I can vote for Poythress. http://www.poythressforgovernor.com/

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Several incompetent teachers were told their contracts would not be renewed this year. It is being done. MiltonMan you need to put more pressure on the administrators at your child’s school. If they have had contracts extended to them for more than 3 years the administration must document a personal plan of improvement for the teacher in question. If the teacher does not meet the goals of the plan then they are not offered a contract the following year. Teachers who have taught less than 3 years are not afforded that procedure – they can be let go at any time.

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hst-

Cagle’s comments only make sense if he means they need the RTTT money to balance the budget.

Georgia’s RTTT app talks about needing the RTTT grant to be able to afford to implement merit pay.

You can see why I get so frustrated sometimes with what has historically seemed to be Georgia’s attitude towards getting education grant money.

“Just tell us what we have to promise to get the money and we’ll impose those terms on students and teachers”.

The districts end up spending a lot of money implementing these imposed terms and the DOE or USG or various ed schools around the state get to pocket the grants.

Taking care of Georgia students, teachers, and parents should be treated as a fiduciary obligation of the state and its elected and appointed officials.

Instead they seem to treat public education as an asset they can sell off.

We need to change that attitude to get better long term results for everyone and to spend those finite public dollars more wisely.

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MiltonMan has obviously never spent a day of his life in a classroom as a teacher, so why bother arguing with the uninformed.

As ‘high school teacher’ mentioned, merit pay was a major push by Lt. Gov. Casey Cagle’s ‘budget task force’ – so how on EARTH could this be a system to financially ‘reward’ teachers if a **BUDGET** committee is behind it? Obviously, this is a way for the state to SAVE money, not pay ‘competent’ teachers more money and weed out ‘incompetent’ teachers… which is what some (naive) people believe. On top of that, only 30% of GA’s teachers teach core subject areas with standardized tests, that were not written to evaluate teacher effectiveness. The point is – currently, there is no fair way to evaluate educators in GA based on student achievement. We don’t have the framework in place for a FAIR system, which is why so many people rallied against this bill.

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Way too much money and power given to educators and education. Did you know that money is in the health care bill to pay for people from early childhood education to come into a new borns home and decide if you are parenting your child correctly? Administrators need to have their wings clipped, no out of state travel, no 6 figure salaries, no perks, higher professional expectations. The way things are now, the parents and the students lose.

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Lake Sinclair Educator:

There were changes made to PLU requirements? I missed that one. Could you link or explain?

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MiltonMan,

Since you’re obviously so much smarter than a teacher–you know, based on our easily obtained degrees and all that–I would love to know what your college degree is in and what you do for a living. Perhaps you are an award-winning doctor who has been tirelessly working on a cure for cancer for the past decade. Maybe you’re a concert pianist or well known playwright. You might even be a game-changing businessman whose insight and drive discovered previously unknown market niches and have netted you millions of dollars.

But I’m willing to bet you’re none of the above; you’re just some a$$hole who knows as much about education as he does String Theory.

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Tisp,

Some of what you suggest would abolish the last remnants of socialism from education and plunge it totally into communism. Salary and benefits limits? Are you kidding me?

If that day comes, you won’t find me in the classroom any longer.

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@miltonman–so at least you can accept that i’m educated. How are you assessing my intelligence? Have you reviewed my IQ test? One again an assumption on your part. You have nothing to base your assessment on. Do you see how teachers could be unfairly assessed if its based on individual preceptions? If it makes you feel better i’m a white, conservative male. Does that know make me intelligent in your world?

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Maureen,

I’ve been stuck in the filter for a while.

Please help.

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Union,

Not all, just some. And I knew what the pay was like going in. What I’m mad about is seeing my options to make more money slowly taken away and/or replaced with illogical, unfair, and unsustainable evaluation plans written by people who know nothing about the world of education.

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So tired of defending myself. I am a competent, dedicated teacher. Pay me how you’d like. If it gets bad enough, I will move on to something else. I came from another industry and could go back to another industry. However, don’t whine and complain when the schools are filled with mediocre teachers. The only people willing to trust this kind of pay-for-performance scale would undoubtedly fail to meet the bar, then be forced out and replaced by someone else who is mediocre. So then education becomes a revolving-door industry where occasionally someone makes it to head fry cook.

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There are already things put in place to monitor teacher performance. If there are “bad” teachers, ANOTHER instrument isn’t needed. What is needed is to require administrators to USE the instrument already in place.

Too often, administrators tolerate the “bad” teachers. It isn’t the teachers fault, but rather the administrators.

Don’t pile on more paperwork and instruments. It won’t help. Administrators can ignore those as well.

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@ Reality..

Why would you punish those in the education profession that would aspire to do more?

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@Union 1:06

Why would you say that I want to punish those in education that want to do more? I have NEVER said that!

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The large part of the reason I moved here from FL was the pay. Frankly, I am overall pleased with the pay. I have no intentions of becoming an administrator-I love being in the classroom too much.

Education is like most jobs. There are good and there are bad teachers and adminsitrators. If I had students misbehaving in my class, 95% of the time I deal with them personally. I KNOW who they are. It is poor classroom management to continually punish the group because of a few “bad apples.”

The media makes $$$ by focusing on the bad side of things. This is what people cling to and generalize.

I, for one, do not believe ALL parents are bad. Most do the best they can, and what they know. I avoid judging them, and certainly hope they avid judging me.

If we cwould quit demonizing each other and focus on our real enemies, the politicians, we’d be on to something. I imagine them snickering when they read us bickering.

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@Union

Why would you ask that? I have wrote that!

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I would not mind being evaluated on what i’m willing to do to make myself a better teacher. What PD am I willing to attend. Do i set goals for myself and for my students? Am I willing to assume more responsibilty within the school setting? Are my students progressing based on a number of criteria? These are points i would not mind being evaluated on.

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I think Union and Milton Man are the same person.

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@ Union,

You miss the point entirely….

A GREAT doctor can loose a patient. Just because a doctor has a patient that dies does NOT make him a “bad” doctor.

A GREAT dentist can loose teeth of a patient. Just because the teeth rot does NOT make him a “bad” dentist. Maybe the patient never brushed teeth, or flossed, or they ate a lot of sweets, or whatever.

Similarly, a GREAT teacher may have a student that doesn’t learn. That does NOT make them a “bad” teacher.

So, teacher pay should NEVER be linked to student performance…. for the same reasons for a doctor or a dentist.

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As an educator who is recently new to teaching (this is my fourth year), I do believe that there needs to be a change to the way educators are evaluated. However, basing it off of how students do on one standardized test is NOT the way to go. I believe that I am good at what I do and feel passionately about education. However, I could work my butt off (which I do every day!!) trying to get this one child who maybe doesn’t speak English, or lives in a single parent home and mom works all the time and is never there, or has parents that let him run wild with no discipline and support, or a learning disability for that matter, and doesn’t pass the test. Does that mean I am a bad teacher??? Or what about the teacher next door who has all the advanced and gifted kids in her class, who will obviously do well on the test, but is an awful teacher? Should she get more pay because she was fortunate enough to teach all the smart kids?? These are questions that lawmakers, administrators, and parents need to be asking themselves.

I feel that educators do need to be evaluated on their performance, but not based on one test. What should be looked at is their teaching performances and evaluations throughout the entire school year. It is only required in Fulton Co. to observe a teacher ONE time a year! How is that an accurate and true evaluation of their teaching? I also think administrators need to step up and get rid of the teachers who, let’s face it, suck. The teachers who are late every day, leave their classroom all the time, give their students nothing but worksheets to do, are on their computers shopping and emailing when they should be teaching, and never go out of their way to help their students. There are some bad teachers out there but keep on teaching because administrators allow them to, despite complaints from the community. And this last one in, first one out is nonsense. A brand new teacher could be amazing, but get fired because she is new, while the awful teachers who have been around for years get to stay and keep on sucking the life out of education.

I also feel that parents need to step up, too, and realize that all the learning doesn’t take place at school. If your child is struggling or clearly needs help with his homework or with studying for a test, don’t expect the teacher to perform a miracle and don’t get mad when he gets a bad grade. Parents have a responsibility to their child’s education, too. And stop arguing with your child’s teacher when you aren’t happy with the grade he made. Quit making excuses for your child all the time. Are you going to follow him to college and do this if their college professor isn’t up to par? Don’t enable your children! Set good examples and teach them responsibility for their own learning.

And furthermore, like @Reality said, when other professions start to take merit pay, then we can talk. I’d like to see politicians try it out! If only I could decide on what I get paid and give myself a pay raise each year…

And @MiltonMan, you are darn right I chose to do this profession and couldn’t be prouder! Despite all of the drama surrounding teaching, I have a sense of accomplishment at the end of my day beacuse I am making a difference in my community and helping to shape young minds. Can you say that???

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@ ??? No -

@ Reality

so.. in new york.. for example.. charter schools have been out performing public schools.. they don’t get to pick the students.. they even do more with less.. funny how only the teachers union up there wants to shut them down?

that aside.. there are a lot of fantastic teachers out there who are very dedicated and strive to do better than some of their peers.. why can we not pay for those that perform better than others? why do you want to stifle achievement?

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I feel that educators do need to be evaluated on their performance, but not based on one test. What should be looked at is their teaching performances and evaluations throughout the entire school year. It is only required in Fulton Co. to observe a teacher ONE time a year! How is that an accurate and true evaluation of their teaching? I also think administrators need to step up and get rid of the teachers who, let’s face it, suck. The teachers who are late every day, leave their classroom all the time, give their students nothing but worksheets to do, are on their computers shopping and emailing when they should be teaching, and never go out of their way to help their students. There are some bad teachers out there but keep on teaching because administrators allow them to, despite complaints from the community. And this last one in, first one out is nonsense. A brand new teacher could be amazing, but get fired because she is new, while the awful teachers who have been around for years get to stay and keep on sucking the life out of education.

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And furthermore, like @Reality said, when other professions start to take merit pay, then we can talk. I’d like to see politicians try it out! If only I could decide on what I get paid and give myself a pay raise each year…

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wow.. my comments are being moderated.. nice..

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And @MiltonMan, you are darn right I chose this profession! And if I had to do it over again, I would still become a teacher. My job gives me a sense of accomplishment because I know I am making a difference in my community and helping to shape the minds of young children. I only hope you can say the same.

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And @MiltonMan, you are darn right I chose this profession! And if I had to do it all over again, I would still become a teacher. Why? My job gives me a sense of accomplishment because I know I am making a difference in my community and helping to shape the minds of young children. I went in to this profession knowing I wouldn’t make a lot of money, but to me, money isn’t everything. Knowing I am making a difference is more important than living in a $700,000 home and driving a lexus. Also, don’t assume that a teaching degree is the easy way out. It might not be as difficult as a biology degree, but it still required a lot of work.

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having served in the military for many years.. my pay was based on my performance as well as the performance of those I grew to command as I progressed through the ranks. I had no control over the people that were assigned to me nor did I have the control of those that enlisted in the military.. I managed to do just fine..as do and did many of my peers.

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Miltonman

I actually have an English degree with a minor in Education. I worked in the business world as a proposal writer for a computer technology company. I have done what I teach. Your argument would be stronger if you did not make such sweeping generalities.

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Union,

Good for you. You know how to use Google.

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I still don’t understand why Governor Perdue hasn’t really invited educators to the table when discussing these proposals. I do not try to tell him how to treat heartworm disease. Why does he think he knows how to run my classroom? So his rigged survey says 80% of us want a common, state-wide evaluation. That’s fine. I don’t want to place my livelihood in the hands of disinterested third parties who have no consequences or incentives to do well on their own — and those people are often the students. I generally have decent results on EOCT, but I don’t want to have to keep stressing this test so much to the point that the students lose sight of the bigger picture and that is that they need to become lifelong learners. Children in the last 8 years or so have been so inundated by NCLB that they no longer know how to think critically. I have said it many times in this forum…. “student achievement” and “learning” are not one in the same.

I do want to address MiltonMan’s argument for vouchers. I will never say parents should not choose the educational option they feel is best for their child. I will say public money needs to stay for public goods – in this case the public school. If you want a private education, work hard and earn it for your child. That’s fine. This so-called competition will do two things. 1) Permanently and irreversibly damage public education. Private schools already have a source of funding and do not need an a bonus in the form of taxpayer dollars. Public schools have no other option. 2) Provide welfare to the wealthy. Basic economics would tell you that if private education were to become less expensive because of these vouchers, too many people would want to take advantage resulting in a shortage of seats. To compensate, the schools would have to raise their tuition to cut back on the demand. This would put the school out of reach for those who could only afford the schooling on vouchers alone, so the wealthy would then not only be the only ones attending the schools, but receiving government assistance to boot while the rest of the students are in schools that can no longer afford to buy the basic essentials to provide a high quality education.

I am an educator. I am a professional. I know there are educators out there that should find other lines of work and processes are in place to help them discover that simple fact. My career is not just a job, it is who I am. It is my passion. It is what I was born to do. All I ask is that the politicians let me do that.

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MiltonMan,

I don’t know your situation, but you come across as a very angry and dissatisfied person. Stop taking it out on the teachers. If you don’t like North Fulton, why don’t you move up north where there is not a shortage of highly qualified teachers?

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Lose- I will lose the game.
Loose- I have a loose tooth.

Seriously??

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Union,

In the US military you pay is based on your rank and your years in service. It is not based on performance. Additional pay may be earned through status and skills–such as parachute pay, language pay, combat pay, submarine pay..etc…

Your ability to rise in rank or to remain in the service was based on performance as was that of the people you “commanded”. Would you like to know what “command” means?

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There is no use arguing with fools. I am prepared to teach every day, and I have had all good performance appraisals over 22 years, my delivery is good, and my classroom management is good. I have a 140 IQ and I scored a perfect 800 on the Math portion of the GRE. My current students and I have a good relationship. I have positive relationships with former students–my oldest son is a former student that asked me to adopt him, and my youngest daughter’s teacher was once a pupil of mine. However, if my performance appraisal was tied to my current group of math 1 students I would be in trouble. Would you like to know why? 1. They aren’t strong mathematicians. 2. As a whole, their study habits are poor. 3. About half of them seem unconcerned about learning the material. 4. Absenteeism has been a problem. Three have been on maternity homebound this year. 5. School has changed and life has changed. The stories that some of these children tell about their home life would chill your soul. Anyhow, I am doing my best and everyone who matters to me tells me I am doing a good job. Why would you want to make me be evaluated based upon how a bunch of teenagers do on a standardized test? Would you care if they just Christmas Treed? Would you care if they showed up stoned and just thought the test was funny? I can survive to retirement regardless, and I will do my best regardless, so I am not pleading just for me. My concern is for all of those fine young teachers that are going to really get screwed over once Standardized Tests become the primary ingredient of their annual evaluation. If we as a society keep it up, we will be without the fine young teachers we need to keep education moving. Milton boy and Onion–you wouldn’t last a week with my students.

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“has” in the first paragraph should be “have”

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Dennyboy and Veteran teacher 2, you’re right. I gave a test today. In my 2nd class, three students discovered – after I had given instructions to prepare for the test, and after I had already passed out the tests – that they had no writing implement.

In fact, one student stared at the test for at least five minutes before ever asking for a pencil! I am totally dreading the EOCTs!

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Time to get John Barge elected as our next Superintendent of Schools for Georgia. Mr. Barge realizes the math curriculum is a mess. He supports career and technical education as a viable option for students. Mr. Barge also realizes the GADOE is full of people that have NO clue what really goes on at school everday. Check out his website http://www.electjohnbarge.com

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NCTQ released its analysis of Texas ed programs.

Many of the issues raised may well be similar in Georgia based on minutes I have read.(Usually accidentally while looking for something else).

Here’s the link: http://www.nctq.org/edschoolreports/texas/docs/executive_summary.pdf

In the new world of merit pay and RIFs, should we be taking a better look at the quality of ed programs in this state. After all they do not come with a refund policy.

If you’d rather this issue went away. notice that NCTQ is teaming up with US News to release a national 2011 study of ed school programs.

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@Attentive Parent, there is a Georgia-specific report here:
http://www.nctq.org/stpy09/reports/stpy_georgia.pdf

Increasing the quality of ed school programs would most likely require raising the admission standards. The question is whether or not this would result in a shortage of teachers?

The least-qualified teachers at our school are still teaching on provisional certificates because they’ve been unable to pass the GACE – which begs the question of how they managed to receive bachelors or in some cases masters degrees without basic skills.

I also have to wonder why Georgia dropped the nationally-used Praxis tests in favor of the state-specific GACE, and which testing company profited from that decision?

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@V – it certainly doesn’t include arresting 10 year olds!

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i wonder if a student assaulted ga at a WalMart, would ga’ first reaction be that it was ga’s fault for not handling the situation appropriately?

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I have zero problem with blaming students for bad grades and bad
behaviors.

zero.

and even less problem with focusing the light exactly on the cause
- which most often is mommy and daddy.

no matter how hard folks try to spin it, at the end of the day it
is the responsibility of

ready now?

the STUDENT to his/her work. and in the case of K-12, the PARENTS
to make sure it’s done.

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BTW: if a ten year old merits arresting, it sure as hell does.

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where I work, we had a student attack a staff member with a fire
extinguisher. we were about to boot the little monster til mommy
and daddy came charging in.

end result? no consequences for the alleged student at all, and the
staffer in question was told to never discuss the event

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Too bad no one actually read the bill. This is one of the worst jobs of telling the truth about legislation I have ever seen. For those who are interested, here is the actual text from the bill that describes teacher evaluation criteria. Notice point A says: “academic gains” and not general test scores. Also it is but one of 7 criteria used.

Judging by the horrible attitude and lack of knowledge expressed by the teachers in this post, it is no wonder that our schools are in trouble.

Annual teacher evaluations shall at a minimum take into consideration the following:
(A) The role of the teacher in meeting the school’s student achievement goals, including the academic gains of students assigned to the teacher;
(B) Observations of the teacher by the principal and assistant principals during the delivery of instruction and at other times as appropriate;
(C) Participation in professional development opportunities and the application ofoncepts learned to classroom and school activities;
(D) Communication and interpersonal skills as they relate to interaction with students, parents, other teachers, administrators, and other school personnel;
(E) Timeliness and attendance for assigned responsibilities;
(F) Adherence to school and local school system procedures and rules; and
(G) Personal conduct while in performance of school duties.

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Tim, please feel free to join us anytime and put your
future where your keyboard is.

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Want to really fix this? Well of course we don’t! But if we really wanted to, we’d offer the appropriate check and balance of having an administrator’s evaluation based in part on what the professionals that administrator leads think about the administrator.

No good administrator should fear that, because if they are doing their jobs properly, the majority of professional staff they lead will acknowledge it.

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point by point
A: how long is a piece of rope, Tim?

we can lead students to knowledge all day, but
we can’t make them think. or study. or give
a damn.

I’ve met damn few administrators who are willing to
say the kids, action, attitudes, and behavior might
have factored in to their actual educational expereince.

here’s one for you Tim.

A couple years ago at Crews Middle in Gwinnett they had a
principal who was younger than most of the faculty.

meaning he had spent his professional time sitting in class,
not teaching it.

he decided he wanted Crews Probe student percentage to go up.
so he called a meeting of Probe parents and announced he wanted
all the kids who could be in Proble 100% should be in Probe 100%.

note the difference here – not who should be, who could be. it is
entirely possible, in fact common, for kids to be gifted in math but
barely scrape by in language arts.

in this meeting Opie, boy principal, droned on and on about the %’s
and how much they could go up. the faculty sitting behind him looked
like they were gonna be ill. they knew, if he didn’t that there was a
reason kids who were not fully in Probe were that way for a good reason.

they weren’t ready yet for that kind of a challenge.

but Opie boy princial played to the vanity of the parents and got
the numbers he wanted. and left one year later.

no matter how dumb you think we are, we can spot someone building
a resume on the backs of faculty a mile off.

and we’re supposed to happily let these tools set our standards?
not hardly.

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No good administrator should fear being evaluated by the professionals in the building. If the administrator is doing their job, they will be evaluated properly. And they have the built in advantage that teachers don’t have; if one or two are out to get them, it will be greatly outweighed by the other professionals.

Good administrators should embrace this, as should the legislature as it’s what’s best for Georgia’s students, and no one can make the case that it isn’t.

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Will GAE and PAGE embrace teachers evaluating administrators, thereby bringing the very check and balance this great nation was founded on into the educational system?

Or are GAE and PAGE more interested in protecting their abusive administrators than holding them accountable with a fair and equitable evaluation tool?

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point by point:
D)

care to guess how many different languages are spoken in
our public school? dialects? accents?

its not like folks are compelled to speak proper english.
make an issue of it, in fact, and you’re on a one way trip
to the Ombudsman about your racist attitude.

or even worse, the I’m Mr. Badass parents who are much more
concerned in apperances than their kids education. and you’d
be amazed how many of their kids are problem children in class
-jackass see, jackass do.

ever heard teenagers talk?

give us the ability to toss the jackasses out, refuse admittance
to kids or to hire folks who have limited english skills, make it
so we can speak without having to filter everything thru a PC
screener….

then maybe you’re on to something

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@Veteran Teacher 2 and others that hold your opinion – There is no evidence whatsoever that kids are worse today than any other generation. Especially if you look at simple facts – Teen Pregnancy Down from 10 years ago, and Illicit Drug use is on the decline. Kids are kids are kids, and if you can’t handle the heat, get out of the kitchen

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Actually I believe it’s the attitude of some educators that are far worse than the kids.

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@bootney – I know a lot of families that have special needs children, and they dn’t make excuses for their kids. They are some of the hardest working, diligent, caring people I know. They face challenges everyday and make lemonade out of lemons. And when they encounter discriminatory attitudes by those in Charge, they fight on as well they should

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wonder where F got off to?

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As John Rosemond has pointed out many times, by every measure of childhood health and well being, children are worse off than they were 40 years ago.

About the same time we as a society started being the child’s friend, and not the child’s authority figure.

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“You can’t make them think – really? Is that your argument.”

yup. Occams Razor in effect.

no matter how much we try, we can’t compell anyone to think.
look at yourself. facts after facts have been presented to you
which you refuse to acknowledge.

the best educators in existance can’t educate a closed mind.

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Notice how ga calls a violent physical assault on a school staff member an outburst instead of an assault?

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So according to ga’s logic, there are antecedents that make a violent physical assault on a school staff member not a crime?

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“A sales person can’t force people to buy his product, nor does he have control over the quality of the product”

Ah but Tim, the sales person is judged on THEIR efforts. And the sales manager has the authority to REMOVE disruptive sales team members who refuse to show up, refuse to sell and argue, curse or otherwise disrupt members of the sales team.

Give teachers that SAME authority, and they’ll JUMP on board for merit pay.

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Tim,

We can’t MAKE anyone think. We attempt to teach them HOW to think. You’ll notice that the act of thinking is sort of a prerequisite.

ga,

I wonder where you would draw the line. Should a poor, innocent student who never had a fair chance in life be held accountable for beating up another kid? What about a teacher? What if he killed someone? Where do you draw the line? If he’s SPED should he be help accountable for anything? Or do ADA and IDEA prevent us from expecting anything reasonable from them?

You said if we can’t take the heat we should get out of the kitchen. I would love to see you step into my kitchen and handle the heat. You wouldn’t last a minute.

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I would love to see ga in the kitchen, but I can’t in good faith subject students to the sight of ga, cowering under the teacher’s desk, in a puddle of urine sobbing uncontrollably, “It really isn’t the teachers. It really is the discipline!”

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@Tim and others who think teacher evaluations are lacking: Please take a few moments to read through the Class Keys.

http://www.gadoe.org/DMGetDocument.aspx/CK%20Standards%204-30-09.pdf?p=6CC6799F8C1371F60C8684DFDC96C1C9E173A927D7D04E1B1E862FC762CCF7F9&Type=D

Still convinced teacher evaluations are lacking?

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@ga-If you haven’t found any evidence yet, you have not looked.
@Tim-I have been in business also, for 28 years. When were you a teacher??

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@Teacher/Learner- no I don’t have any info regarding how Class Keys will be implemented. My school took part in the pilot of Class Keys this year. We were told at the beginning of the 09/10 school year that this will go statewide next year.

There is LOTS of paperwork involved…just what we all need more of (please note my sarcasm). My school relied on teachers observing other teachers to meet the 6 observation requirements. My administrator has still not observed me and the lead instructional teacher has observed me twice. Basically, the evidence to show whether I am emerging, proficient, etc. has fallen back on my desk through “pieces of evidence” I’m required to submit…pre-observation forms, self-assessment forms, professional growth plans, etc. At the end of the school year, I will sit down with my administrators and defend my self-evaluations and submit (in writing) my plan for improvements on every single element.

My fear is this instrument will be tied to merit pay. While I’m not fearful of the instrument itself, I really can’t see how each and every element can be fairly measured by brief administrative visits to the classroom. My administrator has limited classroom experience and has been out of the classroom for 15 years. He’s a nice enough guy but when it comes to curriculum and instruction…he’s clueless. I also lack confidence in our lead instructional teacher to use the instrument in a fair and consistent manner.

From what I can tell, the evidence to show growth and improvement will fall to the teacher to “prove” through the piles of paperwork.

I love your question regarding “thoughtful implementation across GA public schools.” I hate to be a pessimist but I really doubt a thoughtful implementation is possible under the current DOE leadership…at least based on past roll outs…School Keys, the new math curriculum, just to name a few.

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ScienceTeacher671, I think you hit the nail on the head: “I agree that Class Keys is quite rigorous, but I do not think our administrators have the time to adequately implement it”

Cobb County is getting in trouble over this now, since they are proceeding with an RIF based on performance, which in turn was based on this year’s Class Keys evaluation. Some teachers are upset that a new tool (one they were told was on a trial period) is being used for decisions about lay offs, and that the administrators didn’t spend enough time on classroom evaluations to get a clear picture of what goes on in the classroom. I felt they were done fairly at my school, but I’m sure there are a wide range of administrators and schools were that might not be the case.

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Any truth to the rumor that 1st and 2nd grade CRCTs and 3rd and 5th grade writing assessments were eliminated in the final budget bill?

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tpc- actually, I just got back from an amazing Civil Rights -based field trip with my students! It was an amazing journey, and it reminded me of how lucky I am to be in the profession I am.

Thanks for thinking of me though!

As for the bill, I could care less really. With the ham-fisted way it was handled, I expected nothing else. I still support merit pay, but I am more focused on picking the right candidates to support that will best reflect all of my beliefs in the future. As a merit pay favoring Democrat, that field appears thin.

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RE: the 1st & 2nd grade CRCT and 3rd & 5th grade writing assessment WAS CUT…received this email today…

FYI—The big news is CRCT and writing test—cut from the budget—read and send this info. and send info. in any format you wish out to your dist. folks out to your districts

The longest session in anyone’s memory is finally over. This last day was filled with farewells and announcements as many are calling it quits or running for a higher office. Sine die is known for last minute drama and shenanigans, and this one had its moments.
Bills that could not pass on their own were pulled apart and put into others. Versions of bills went back and forth between the chambers. Instead of conference committees, they seemed to prefer to keep amending each other’s bills. That led to some real tongue twisters to describe the legislative action taking place, such as a motion for the Senate to agree to the House amendment to the Senate amendment to the House substitute for a Senate bill. That method also allowed them to hold particular bills while until others made their way through.
There were last minute attempts to amend bills, but most of them failed to go anywhere. One of those was an attempt to revive the school start date bill. They also kept searching for a bill to add the teacher evaluation language from SB 521. All those attempts failed. Unfortunately the dual enrollment funding was lost in the maneuvering.
FY 2011 Budget
For four months, legislators struggled over the budget, water, budget, transportation, budget, guns, and a number of other issues but always came back to how to keep the state going in the midst of the revenue meltdown. After all the arguments over taxes, fees, and no-new-tax pledges, agreement over the budget was finally reached.
There were no surprises in the education section. There were no changes to cuts to QBE, and no cuts were made to equalization. Here are a few of the items:
Transportation funding was cut $5 million
School nurse program was cut $1.6 million
Pre-school Handicapped program was cut $1.3 million
Severely Emotionally Disturbed program was cut $3.5 million
National Board Certified program was eliminated
The alternative sparsity grant program was eliminated
1st and 2nd grade CRCTs and 3rd and 5th grade writing assessments were eliminated
PSAT and 2 AP exams are funded only for students on free and reduced lunch
Capital outlay was funded at 100%
$50 million in bonds is authorized to buy buses
The reimbursement for the forestland protection act is $10.5 million
Budgets are always based on revenue assumptions. The FY 2011 budget is dependent upon revenue growing 3.9% over the amount collected in 2010. About 3.5% of the anticipated revenue comes from three new sources:
The new hospital provider payment — $229 million
Selling the GEFA bonds — $288 million
New user fees — $96 million
What Did They Do To Us?
For some reason at the end of a session, no one has ever asked what wonderful thing happened. I wonder why. Several bills we had watched closely did not pass. Although we were frequently threatened with the passage of HB 480, the repeal of motor vehicle sales taxes and ad valorem taxes, the Senate did not bring it to the floor. Earlier in the session HR 1, the assessment caps, was stopped. Those two bills would have had a major impact on local revenue.
Another positive action taken was passage of SB 206, requiring a tax expenditure report detailing the state tax exemptions to be a part of the annual budget process. This was one of GSBA’s legislative priorities this year.
The biggest disappointment was passage of SB 308, the guns bill. This bill did go to a conference committee, and the final version eliminated the 1,000 foot safety zone around schools among other changes. It was far better than when it started two years ago though.
Here is a brief list of other bills that made it through tonight:
HB 400, the BRIDGE bill which includes a requirement for an individualized graduation plan
HB 907, dealing with middle school funding including the Senate amendments dealing with additional notification to parents of special needs students of the voucher program and changes in the disbursement of the voucher funds
HB 923, extending the period for finishing a leadership for a higher rate of pay
HB 936, allowing bus replacement funds to be used for refurbishing buses including the Senate amendment for the federal bond program
HB 1013, requiring an annual report on SPLOST funds
HB 1079, allowing payments to the Professional Standards Commission to be by credit or debit card. The bill was amended to include the original version of HB 1103 which shifts the burden of background checks to the PSC among other things.
SB 239, regarding truancy and school registration when moving into a new district
SB 250, on disruptions on the school bus plus the inclusion of HB 927, the bullying bill
SB 299, regarding juvenile proceedings and weapons at school
SB 346, revising the assessment and appeals of ad valorem taxes
SB 457, revising the way a cluster charter petition can be submitted to the local board
All these bills and the budget are now in the hands of the Governor. He has forty days to sign or veto them. If he does not veto them, they can become law without his signature. It usually takes about a week for the legislative offices to catch up and sort out what happened on the final day. We will do a full legislative wrap-up as always.

A leader without a sense of humor is apt to be like the grass mower at the cemetery–he has lots of people under him, but nobody is paying him any attention. Bob Ross

Hal Beaver
Executive Director
GAESP
770-967-2050 ext.22

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Farnsy, you’re confusing me here, bud. Up there on Saturday, around 1323 hrs, your saying/actually insinuating that parents/mommy and daddy are the exact cause of their kids’ poor grades and bad behavior. I believe you indicated that “at the end of the day…in the case of k-12, parents should make sure it’s (homework) done”.

I agree that, in the early stages of the kid’s academic career, say up to about 4th grade or so, parents should monitor the kid’s work, both at school and assigned homework. Up to a certain level of maturity (I’m just winging the 4th grade…could be earlier, could be later…that determination would be a parental discretion), the kid hasn’t developed a sense of long-term planning…and the consequences for not doing so in appropriate fashion. After a certain point in time, the kid needs to develop a sense of independence in achieving daily/weekly/etc goals. If the kid becomes accustomed to someone hanging over them to ensure they perform their daily tidings, they will never learn to function as responsible stand-alone adults.

I agree “10,000 % cubed” that kids, following sustained behavior which is inconsistent with an orderly learning environment, should be booted from the roles…make room for those who understand the purpose of school and want an education. Past one’s, say, 16th birthday, they should be placed on notice that the “free ride” portion of their public education is over…if they adapt appropriately, let em go for the gold…if they don’t, OUT.

Have a good day, Farnsy…enjoy readin your stuff.

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Sure, give the child a consequence, Why not CALL THE PARENT at the first sign of a problem. Have the parent come and take the child home.

Here’s why ga. First of all, you assume the parent will answer the phone. Let some parents educate you on just how many use Caller ID to screen a school’s calls. Also don’t make the assumption that the parent will have a consequence for the child. What about the child who assaults a teacher, the parent is called, and the child comes back to school the next day with a brand new pair of Air Jordans?

Sometimes, you have to get the police involved to get the parents to take their job seriously. Like when their out of control child assaults a teacher.

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ga,

Most kids who would do something like that have parents who could give a rip. What kind of consequence do you expect from a parent who allows his or her child to act in such a manner.

And honestly . . . who gives a crap if the kid is SPED. That is NOT an excuse to get away with behavior that would never be tolerated from a regular ed. student. It’s that kind of garbage that ADA and IDEA have forced us to accept. I teach some wonderful high functioning SPED students right now. None of them would ever dream of doing something like this. If they did, their consequences should be no different than a regular ed. student.

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Most incomptetent teachers are kept because no one will document thier laziness, central office ignores the complaints and the teacher usually knows, is related or has close ties to central office staff. Wilbanks gave raises to, and continues to employ people who pushes their work onto other employee desks, lies on their resumes, fired qualified, educated african american employees who they saw as a threat to their jobs, and threatened employees. So much for the ability for central office staff to evaluated employees who make over $60,000 per years. Imagine what will happen at the school level.

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Glad to see people are talking about ClassKeys. This instrument is way too time consuming. I doubt teachers or anyone near the classroom had a hand in developing it. Mrs. Cox and her staff are a long way from the classrooms of Georgia if they believe administrators have sufficient time to carry out the evaluations required of ClassKeys. This instrument also depends a lot on student performance. Student performance is not a dependable measure.

D- commented on my post about John Barge for State Superintendent. D- I realize the job of governor is very important. At the same time I believe our state super could speak out for teachers during the merit pay discussion. She/he should also be in touch with what is going on in our classrooms. Photo opts for her current campaign don’t count as being in touch. I also believe talking education issues with current candidates for governor is important. The new governor needs to understand the issues enough to appoint competent state BOE members. Our current superintendent and her staff have implemented lots of new policies dictating enormous amounts of professional development (time out of the classroom) and paperwork.

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I think class keys could be a good instrument, IF we had competent, fair administrators. However, I have seen very little of this is Georgia. This is why Georgia’s teachers must unite and form a UNION that has strength in numbers!
There is a chorus/gen music teacher at my former MS who is totally incompetent. He never takes his chorus to LGPE because the last time he did the chorus received straight IV’s (the equivalent of a “D.”) His students cannot read music, they simply memorize the words. The intonation and phrasing is awful! His students do not stay in the chorus, so there is no progression from grade to grade as there is with the orchestra and band. This teacher is mean to students and violates confidentiality laws by calling parents of unruly students in front of the whole class. Little teaching takes place because all he can think about is discipline, but his style is that of fear and intimidation, not student engagement. I don’t think he knows how to engage his class in learning. This man is constantly sending out offensive emails to other staff member DURING INSTRUCTIONAL TIME and often does not enter his classroom until 10 minutes or more after the bell. He is often out in the hallways DURING INSTRUCTIONAL TIME trying to “catch” students who have a legitimate pass doing something wrong. All this while his chorus/gen music students are unattended.

How does he get away with this? He is constantly kissing up to the admin. He makes sure we have music during staff meeting, he cleans out the principal’s gutters at her home, throws parties at his house for those in his “in crowd” and spies on other teachers for the administration. This chorus/gen music teacher who hopes to some day become an administrator, is a lawsuit waiting to happen! You see, the good ole boy network is alive and well in Georgia schools and until we can have quality administrators, there cannot be quality teacher evaluation.

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Hey, I am not making this up. It is extreme but they are out there. They occasionally drop of the kids at the schoolhouse door. Well prepared and ready to learn I am sure.Not in North Fulton though. Could care less and inept is a bad combo in the merit pay world.

Our idiot governor came up with the up to 50% of teacher eval on student test gain measures twice. Both the RTTT grant app and the jackleg amendment to SB 521 that no one wanted to touch.

What makes you think I am a teacher? I am a fed up taxpayer tired of people like entitlement machine sucking from the taxbase to support their pathetic lifestyles.

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No kidding, every parent isn’t perfect. But, no standard used for merit pay would ever say that EVERY student had to make gains, or pass the test, so these outlandish outliers that everyone likes to trot out are just harmful misinformation that has nothing to do with the salient issues.

MPT- my bad, shouldn’t have assumed you were a teacher.

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@Devil’s Advocate -

You are wrong. What you call “outlandish outliers” are more frequent that you obviously realize. In addition, they are not evenly distributed to all teacher and to all schools.

Some schools have more than their share of community issues – drugs, gang violence, poverty, etc.

Some teachers within a given school have more than their share of those “outliers” because they (bless them!) are the ones teaching the lower level classes.

How in the world can anyone come up with any form of FAIR way of comparing? It simply cannot be done.

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@ga: “you are letting your own personal feelings about likely one incident you encountered jade your world view” — pot, kettle, and all that…

“The child was quickly escorted to the principals office and made to wait til mommy and/or daddy responded.” That’s the way it happens most of the time. The ones you read about in the paper are the exceptions, and they occur when the child throws a violent tantrum rather than complying when staff attempt to escort him/her to the office.

“Isn’t it your responsibility to be able to contact the parent right away? Don’t you have more than 1 phone number for responsible parties?” Actually, it’s the parent’s responsibility to ensure that we are able to contact him/her. Each year the school sends out one form to parents and the school nurse sends another, in an attempt to make sure numbers are up to date. In addition, I ask my students for contact numbers.

When trying to contact parents at home or on their cell phones, I frequently get “This number has been disconnected or is no longer in service,” particularly since the economy has gone downhill. Sometimes there’s an answering machine. If you leave a message, some parents will call back; others won’t. If you call a work number, sometimes you’ll get a parent, sometimes they’ll say the parent doesn’t work there anymore, and sometimes they act as if they’ve never heard of that person. Sometimes it’s the parent’s day off.

For teachers, it’s annoying. What’s really bad is when the child is ill or injured, and the nurse can’t contact the parent because there are no working contact numbers.

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I’m still waiting for any of the “teachers and stupid and lazy”
-yes ga, I’m thinking of you. as well as some others –
to actually step up to the plate and do something besides bitch.

every school in Georiga would love to have more parental and
community involvement. put your actions where your keyboards are.
we’ll be glad to put you to work.

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@ sciteach 671:

don’t forget the ones who, when you can get ahold of them,
tell us they’re too busy right now – keep them til the end
of the day.

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bf- agreed, and that’s how it played out. But I think it’s ridiculous that so many, like Reality, pooh-pooh merit pay because of their total ignorance of what the system would actually entail, and these ridiculous outliers that they love to trot out.

btw, I have a post that addresses this point more fully, but the filter has it.

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Many of my colleagues in my GA high school hold advanced degreees from prestigious universities. Many completed more than one such degree in disparate fields,including those represented in the Science and Foreign Languages Dept. Several of us returned to school to obtain the required teaching credentials long before the existence of ‘fast-tracking’ of other professionals via condensed teacher licensure programs. We have more than one former lawyer on staff. We have more than one former employee of federal government agencies (with interesting acronyms). Georgia parents, your teaching faculty, particularly in the metropolitan areas, are among some of the finest. We should make the best use of these resources so as to maximize the benefit of our greatest natural resource-the potential of the next generation. I would like to suggest that we allow line-item budget analysis and veto power to a citizens’ group with no financial ties to the outcome. Hmm…is that even possible? Can we remove the pork barrel from such a highly politicized process as the provision of public education? Is public education doomed to continue to exist as a ‘pink-collar’ ghetto, disproportionately female, linked to property and other types of taxation for its primary means of support? Could we change our schools through a change in funding sources and mechanisms, and thereby change its….’complexion’ so to speak…..’Whining’ is used quite often to describe the responses of those in teaching while other terminology is used for the unwelcome responses of those in male-dominated fields…..at the same time, it is true that too many ’schools of education’ at the university level lack the rigor that was required of my degree programs in liberal arts……’diploma mills’….I remember hearing that term and thinking it to be quite an accurate one for one or two courses I took at universities I chose to no longer attend. I don’t think anyone wants a doctor, lawyer, accountant, electrician, etc. who is so poorly educated in the basics as to be unable to avoid mistakes in reading within his/her area that affect job performance….yet few parents really want their children held to a standard of conduct that includes a real consequence for cheating…..just one of the many difficulties we face….our schools are a microcosm of our larger society…..Bill, what are you doing to contribute to the quality of life in your community? Is 71 the same as 17….minimal accountability due to age? Or, do you pay property taxes, evaluate public officials’ performance, engage in public service in addition to feathering your own nest? I watched my father walk to the elementary school to read aloud to children in overcrowded classrooms, keeping his cane handy for assistance when the Parkinson’s became troublesome. Are you this kind of senior citizen or…..?

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What many fail to realize concerning SB 521 is the effect it will have going foward with dual-enrollment opportunities. What the original bill was written for was to allow dual-enrollment students to be FTE funded for courses taught at a public school facility. With the defeat of this bill (simply because of last minute attempt to pursue merit pay opportunities) many small or poorer school districts will be unable to continue offering dual-enrollment classes. What was originally a good bill was not passed because of bad politics. I am a former educator and now serve on a local board of education. I try to see education law from both perspectives. This was just bad politics.

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