Fulton’s new high school: Should we be building palaces in this climate?
I have to agree with this reader about the detailed plans for the new Bethany Road High School in Milton. It does look grand. (The plans can be viewed in this Google.doc).
Does this new Fulton County school – or any school — need to be this elaborate when we are cutting teachers and raising class sizes? I have often argued that I would accept a broom closet for my kids’ classroom if a great teacher was leading the class. I think the critical issue is top personnel more than top facilities. That is where I would put my money.
Here is what the reader said:
With all the furloughs, layoffs, budget cuts, shortage of books to take home, elimination of after school programs, art, music, and PE classes, somehow the school boards find the money to build monuments such as the new Bethany Road High School to be built in Milton. The plans give you a perspective of the scope of the structure.
While it is important to provide enough classrooms and other facilities, and to integrate LEED and life cycle costing into the materials used in the public schools, what the h-e-double-l do they need a tower standing 63 above the ground for?
And all the precast material used on the tower and on the building facade will cost 5 to 10 times more than brick. This tower alone will easily cost the taxpayers over $50,000 to construct, and I can see no useful purpose except as a monument to the architect. I guess that is a small amount of money for a monument, considering the budget is an estimated $60 million dollars.
It looks good, along with the expensive precast materials, but are these expensive accents and building materials really necessary to provide the students with a good learning environment? Is there anyone minding the store to see that our property tax dollars are being spent wisely in the economic downturn?
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Tweets that mention Fulton’s new high school: Should we be building palaces in this climate? | Get Schooled -- Topsy.com
April 23rd, 2010
2:42 am
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Maureen Downey. Maureen Downey said: Fulton’s new high school: Should we be building palaces in this climate? http://bit.ly/aRxNA8 [...]
lynn
April 23rd, 2010
5:27 am
Is this a SPLOST funded facility? If so, then the money can’t be used in the classroom. I suspect it is.
However, what other capital needs does Fulton have that are going unmet because they are spending so much on this one project?
@ Teach 7th & @Let's tell the truth...
April 23rd, 2010
5:48 am
Will the teachers who are victims of the RIF be placed in this school?
God Bless the Teacher!
April 23rd, 2010
6:12 am
It’s Milton. Enough said.
ScienceTeacher671
April 23rd, 2010
6:21 am
Our board is spending money on a lot of things we think are unnecessary, given furloughs and layoffs, but they say it’s all SPLOST money which must be spent on capital projects anyway.
Still looks bad.
Ellie
April 23rd, 2010
6:26 am
Huh…..didn’t Cindy Loe just say Fulton has another 28 million or so in debt???? Fulton is a 2 class county and class Milton wants out. This is being done pronto before they’ll try the split again. You can’t make this stuff up it’s so unreal!
Cindy Lutenbacher
April 23rd, 2010
6:56 am
I’m with you, Maureen. Great teachers are what matter, not classrooms. The most amazing teacher I’ve ever known, Yang Li, once said this: Give me a tree and some students, and we will have a school.
1
April 23rd, 2010
7:03 am
Enter your comments here
Mid-South Philosopher
April 23rd, 2010
7:05 am
Good morning, Ms. Downey,
Have you ever noticed how that, with all these hard decisions politicians have to make (like the school boards around Atlanta, the Georgia General Assembly, and other assorted governmental idioties…excuse me…”entities”), the “decision-makers” rarely sacrifice or suffer to the extent that the people, who the decisions are make about, do?
1
April 23rd, 2010
7:09 am
Actually, Cindy, that quote is from the first president of Yale, or Harvard, back in the 1600s.
The Cynical White Boy
April 23rd, 2010
7:52 am
A generation ago, the biggest and nicest buildings in many Georgia towns were the churches. Now, it’s the “DEFACS” or the Dept of Labor office.
There’s an irony in the fact that many of the folks with school age kids who are paying for this new palace will never send their kids to public schools in this area, while a lot of folks who will send their kids into the facility never pay a penny in taxes.
A Different Opinion
April 23rd, 2010
7:57 am
Folks, look at who’s paying a great part of the Property Taxes to fund all of Fulton County (yeah, part of that is you, South Fulton County). They pay for the priviledge of living where they live and should reap the benefits. Don’t think anyone has a right to complain about this one.
Teacher&mom
April 23rd, 2010
7:58 am
@ Mid-South Philosopher – Yeah, I notice it everyday when I go to work and have to deal with the decisions (or lack of decisions) of my administrators, central office, BOE, state superintendent, and state BOE. However, I along with all teachers in this state, are the ones that suffer the blows & insults from the public for the decisions. Somehow, those in power always come out “smelling like a rose.” My only hope is that next November the stink will overwhelm the voters in this state and they will begin to place the blame where it belongs…
barneyb
April 23rd, 2010
8:02 am
Have you seen Milton HS and some of the other North Fulton schools? Ridiculous…..you folks up there should be ashamed of yourselves.
V for Vendetta
April 23rd, 2010
8:03 am
This is nothing new, but I’m glad it’s receiving some negative attention. Gwinnett, North Fulton, and Cobb have been building ridiculous school facilities for years.
I’m with you, Maureen. Simplify the buildings and work on retaining effective teachers. Arm them with modern technology. I’d much rather teach in a bare-bones room but have access to modern tech than I would in a glorified office building with nothing–or no job in the first place.
Morrus
April 23rd, 2010
8:15 am
Vote out the incumbents and start over
cc
April 23rd, 2010
8:21 am
Hey barneyb, Have you ever seen my tax bill? I am not ashamed, we pay enough taxes to support our end of county and the south end.
M George
April 23rd, 2010
8:23 am
I still say someone needs to look at the perks some peopel are getting in fulton. Do other systems pay their top people for cars, gasoline? Are these perks be reduced in the central office cuts? it might not be much money but it sure makes a statement if they are eliminated.
HS Teacher, Too
April 23rd, 2010
8:23 am
V, as much as I can’t stand Gwinnett, having taught in their high schools, the buildings (old and new) really are not anything spectacular, and certainly they are not ostentatious. They are large, granted, but they don’t have the bells and whistles you’d think. I’d even argue that they’re closer to bare bones than they are to what’s going on in Fulton. I also understand that plans are re-used and only modified, to save costs (but I don’t have any proof, other than having been in buildings to say, “hmm, this looks identical to…”.) Now, if you’re talking about Gwinnett’s football stadiums, well, yes, I agree!
William Casey
April 23rd, 2010
8:24 am
I bet they said the same thing tp Pharaoh Cheops when he ordered the construction of the Great Pyramid of Giza.
EDDIE
April 23rd, 2010
8:31 am
Whether the SPLOST was used or not–it still will cost money to maintain it, keep it up, staff it, lawn care, light fixture replacements, janitors, ELECTRICITY and other expenses. That is the problem-SPLOST builds these nice buildings, but when they are finished-then the upkeep such as trying to maintain the professional landscape grounds start to kick in. The long term finances will be left for the county to absorb while the voters will support another SPLOST project, which again will cost taxpayers in the long run.
ItDoesntMatter
April 23rd, 2010
8:39 am
I consulted with a GC who builds and renovates schools in Fulton County. All these negative comments are received as compliments by the folks in the communities where these schools are built. There is a sincerely felt belief that their kids deserve better schools because of their income and the efforts they, the parents, put into creating their communities. I agree wholeheartedly. I wish Milton County could be created for the sole purpose of affording those people the opportunity to cocoon themselves with themselves and never have to interact with anyone other than themselves. Then the rest of the county, and the metro area for that matter, could move on with the business of realizing that there are people outside of that secluded area who are capable of creating and living in safe, diverse, and healthy communities where folks own businesses, work hard, create jobs, pay their taxes, and choose to use public transportation (even though they have multiple automobiles); communities where the least among of us feel welcome and the greatest among us don’t feel threatened every time we see someone who doesn’t look like us. Come on Atlanta, let’s rid ourselves of this cancer called North Fulton and renovate, build, and support the communities we all really want to live in.
Honorable Teacher
April 23rd, 2010
8:45 am
Check out the charter schools that are privatized. Public dollars are being used to build and lease their facilities. This is not being done with the SPLOST funds. It is with the same public dollars that are being used to cut our teachers, paras, programs and materials. The game that is used is that the EMO’s will “lend” the money. The public dollars from the state and local pays it back with interest. Go figure….. In addition, these are small schools and small schools in Dekalb are being cut. Something smells like a fish….
Nature Dude
April 23rd, 2010
8:50 am
Upkeep? Districts don’t keep up their buildings. The school I work at has rusted out shower rooms, locker rooms that are falling apart, and paint peeling on the walls…head to more affluent areas and the state of the schools is much different…even though we are in the same county. All schools are not managed the same way, within the same district.
WhatREALLYMatters
April 23rd, 2010
8:58 am
I consulted with a GC who builds and renovates schools in Fulton County. I concluded that all these negative comments are received as compliments by the folks in the communities where these schools are built. It adds to their since of elitism. There is a sincerely felt belief that their kids deserve better everything because of their income and the efforts they, the parents, put into creating their wealth and communities. I agree wholeheartedly. I wish Milton County could be created for the sole purpose of affording those people the opportunity to cocoon themselves with themselves and never have to interact with anyone other than themselves ever again. Then the rest of the county, and the metro area for that matter, would discover the beauty, wealth of knowledge, and value in the rest of the people. We would be able to move on with the business of realizing that there are people outside of that secluded area who are capable of creating and living in safe, diverse, and healthy communities where folks own businesses, work hard, create jobs, pay their taxes, and choose to use public transportation (even though they have multiple automobiles); communities where the least among of us feel welcomed and the greatest among us don’t feel threatened every time we see someone who doesn’t look like us. Come on Atlanta, let’s rid ourselves of this distracting, debilitating cancer called North Fulton and renovate, build, and support communities we all really want to live in. There was an article published a few months ago detailing the number of corporate headquarters currently in what would be Milton County that officially uses the name “Atlanta” as the location for its headquarters, not North Fulton, not Sandy Springs, not Alpharetta, but Atlanta. Why do you suppose that is? Currently, the wealth may be to the north, but the perceived value for the rest of the world, and the real value for those of us who live here is in Atlanta. It’s time to cut away Milton Count and refocus attention towards our own strengths.
Recall The Board and Fire The Super
April 23rd, 2010
9:53 am
Education in GA is a farce. “Where students come first” is an even bigger farce. Last night at the North Fulton County School Board Meeting, the superintendent appointed Maureen Wheeler to replace George Weathers as the Principal of Renaissance Middle School in South Fulton. How do you up and appoint someone when the job is still posted on the website, parents and staff are compelting NEW PRINCIPAL surveys and there has been absolutely NO COMMUNITY INPUT? Linda Bryant, Cindy Loe and all the members of this biased, segregated, pompous, scandalous school system needs to be investigated by SACS. Forget that the system just hired one of the SACS people, laid off 1000 employees, and most of the schools that made AYP in South Fulton had 21% or higher erasure marks on the CRCT!!!! YOU PEOPLE SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES!!!!
V for Vendetta
April 23rd, 2010
10:02 am
HS Teacher, Too,
I don’t know about that. Have you seen Duluth’s new addition? I was over there a few months ago for a banquet. It’s ridiculous: huge columns, four stories (I think), a second-story pedestrian bridge, a VERY nice theatre, etc. I think a few of those things could have been deleted and dollars saved.
George
April 23rd, 2010
10:21 am
While SPLOST can only go to capital outlays (buildings), correct me if I am wrong, can also go to improving technology. Some schools really need so more advanced technology. Computer labs are becoming a place of torn up stations. I know of one county that the middle school building floor has holes in it, was not built on a slab, the bathroom is slowly sinking, while the SPLOST went to build a beautiful Board Office. Which by the way, most board office has the top of the line pencil sharperners, fax machines, nicest desks, boxes of paper-while teachers are spending thier own money for pencil sharpeners, paper, and other materials.
George
April 23rd, 2010
10:25 am
I think a good capital outlay for SPLOST would be solar panels and other electrical saving devices-Can you imagine what the millions of dollars of SPLOST could do to make all schools self reliant instead of using Georgia Power–any overage GA Power would have to buy. That would save money in the long run instead of adding expenses. BUT we do not think outside the box.
teacher/parent
April 23rd, 2010
11:36 am
George-I like the way you think. If we HAVE to spend the money on particular items, let’s spend it on something that is necessary and will save money in other areas. Having the nicest buidling on the block, columns, atrium-not necessary. Waste is waste.
Reality
April 23rd, 2010
12:17 pm
These things need to happen (and in this order)…
1. State Law changed to allow teachers to have a real union.
2. Vote out the State republican politicans that are destroying education in GA.
3. Vote out and/or remove the school systems Board member. They did not properly manage funds and are forced to do these ridulous cut backs this year.
RJ
April 23rd, 2010
12:23 pm
This is ridiculous! Westlake (a south Fulton school) opened last year and isn’t nearly this nice. We have a top swim team that has to practice at the local recreation center because…we’ll who knows why? I wonder if cell bars are a part of the plans as they were with Westlake. Imagine bars coming down to trap students when the bell rings. How nice is Langston Hughes High? I just find this ridiculous as many of my former co-workers have lost their jobs or are waiting to learn today via email if they will have a job next year. This board is a joke and needs to be replaced. And for the record, Westlake is surrounded by beautiful upscale homes, they just happen to be owned by blacks instead of whites.
Reality
April 23rd, 2010
12:28 pm
RJ –
Not that you are totally wrong, but…
There really is no correlation between having money and being civilized. There are many criminals with tons of money. There are many uncivilized and ill-social people with money.
Money alone does not make someone ‘high class.’ Just watch one of the Housewives TV shows.
HS Teacher, Too
April 23rd, 2010
12:28 pm
V,
No, haven’t seen Duluth … so perhaps I stand corrected! Have a great weekend!
Delia
April 23rd, 2010
12:52 pm
Reality -
Are you implying the people of middle and upper class status in south fulton are criminals? Are you sick? The people are mostly professionals…ones who went to school and worked their behinds off to get what they have… In every community, you have questionable characters.
Please clarify your point!
M George
April 23rd, 2010
1:03 pm
Response to Recall the Board and the Super….other appointments were handled teh same. Try Elkins Point Middle school. So many people are choosing to retire from Fulton- can you blame them? Isn’t anyone out there curious about the salary perks?
Jamesr1991
April 23rd, 2010
1:19 pm
Is this the same design as any other north Fulton high school? Does anyone kno? Because all the new high schools in South Fulton are the EXACT same DESIGN (all three). It is clearly unfair to have north Fulton building schools with different design while making the south Fulton schools the same.
REPORT the FACTS Maureen! Ask the questions.
Fedup
April 23rd, 2010
1:21 pm
Let’s hope the citizens of Fulton don’t sit “pat” and let these blogs be the end of the rage against this Board that has set the table for the slide this district has experienced during the last 10 years. I personally have no dog in any principal selection fight, but how do you fill principalships with absolutely no input or dialogue from parents and staff? I agree with a few other readers that if SACS really drilled down through the last several years regarding the actions of this Board, Clayton’s Board members that got the “heave-ho” proably wouldn’t look so bad….
? M George
April 23rd, 2010
1:30 pm
was someone appointed to the Elkins Point job?
Fedup
April 23rd, 2010
1:35 pm
Yes, M George…..the current principal at Roswell North ES.
Jamesr1991
April 23rd, 2010
1:37 pm
@Fedup We tried to get SACS involved a number of years ago and were clearly ignored. It’s my contention (I live in South Fulton) that we are running to separate school systems – one north one south. We complained for years and got no where. I believe because a majority (5) of the members are Republicans and with a Republican Governor that has relationship with SACS nothing will happen.
This board has been on this path for years. The SPLOST program has been mismanaged and no one has taken responsibility. We as tax payers have been cheated and overbilled time and again through the SPLOST. No REAL investigation has taken place but a few people quietly RETIRED.
Forensic audits were put on the shelf to hide wrongdoings. Board members pressured staff to hide information. In the meantime, Board members openly worked against their sworn oath to work for the betterment of all Fulton children while building out north Fulton schools in hopes of getting away with it in a new Milton County.
Down south we’ve been complaining for years and you guys up north have stood quietly by while they were clearly screwing us.
Finally, you are starting to see what we’ve been screaming about. Welcome to the battle.
usually lurking
April 23rd, 2010
1:41 pm
@V and @HS Teacher – the building at Duluth to which you refer is at least 5 years old and houses the main offices and 60 or so classrooms as well as the auditorium. More relevant might be the new “signature” building for the Gwinnett School of Mathematics, Science and Technology, enrollment 404 for grades 9-11, that will open this fall.
L.A. in SWATs
April 23rd, 2010
1:47 pm
Thanks Delia and RJ. I get sick of hearing that North Fulton is “paying for” South Fulton. I live in an upscale home in South Fulton and our tax bill is certainly no drop in the bucket!
RJ
April 23rd, 2010
1:47 pm
@Reality, did you READ my post or just skim through it and then post a comment. Or, did you just have the need to state your opinion that all blacks are criminals?! I never stated anything about whites or blacks being high classed. I simply stated that south Fulton has beautiful homes and upper middle class homeowners just as north Fulton does, however South Fulton is often ignored. I believe this is BECAUSE it is black. I worked in Fulton County for several years and I can assure you that it is a very divided system.
@Jamesr1991, you should see the NEW Milton high built for no apparent reason other than to appease the parents. It doesn’t resemble any south Fulton high school. It was built a few years ago and I couldn’t believe they built such a lavish building but the new Westlake doesn’t even come close. All of the south Fulton middle schools look the same as well. We get a one size fits all approach while north Fulton gets facilities that truly meet the needs of the students in the community. It’s just disgusting.
Fedup
April 23rd, 2010
1:48 pm
jamesr1991, I live in South Fulton as well, and it is obvious that this arrogant leadership is doing its best to further separate itself from the needs of anywhere below the northern 285 crescent. I do hope that if/when Milton branches out, that all the school properties that belong to Fulton County are paid for at full property value!!!!
Reality
April 23rd, 2010
1:55 pm
@RJ: Did YOU even READ my post? I have even mentioned “black” or “white”.
You dicussed how there are bars in some school in fulton and then went on to discuss how there are beautiful homes (assumming money) around it.
I pointed out that people (not just black or white) can have tons of money and still have no clue how to properly behave. Possibly that school is in an area WITH money and also HIGH crime?
You are too defensive.
Reality
April 23rd, 2010
1:57 pm
@FedUp
It is my understanding that North Fulton will be very happy, indeed, to pay full property value and then some just to separate.
My question is then, what would the rest do? Will the City of Atlanta become its own, separate from South Fulton?
ElemTeacher
April 23rd, 2010
2:03 pm
The recent schools of Johns Creek, Milton, and Alpharetta are all being built with the same basic plan. The difference is that they all have different facades. Milton has the columns, Alpharetta is very modern, and Johns Creek has the time clock. I am assuming the new high school will follow the same plan. They all have a distinctive quality on the outside, but all are the same floorplan. Of course, it is completely ridiculous. Teachers still don’t have contracts and still don’t know whether they are being RIF’d or not. The county is bad enough. Don’t even get me started at what the state is trying to do at the last minute with just a few legislative days left. Speak up and let your voice be heard!!!
Fedup
April 23rd, 2010
2:04 pm
The city of Atlanta already has its own system – Atlanta Public Schools – my guess is that the South Fulton schools and the schools in APS could/would merge into one urban school district – more than likely retaining the Fulton County designation – just a guess, however.
Reality
April 23rd, 2010
2:05 pm
Johns Creek High School has many unused classrooms. Yet, the County is RIF-ing teachers and increasing class sizes.
Fulton County School System is just plain ol’ broken.
Reality
April 23rd, 2010
2:06 pm
Fedup
Are you aware that in recent history, there was a County south of Atlanta, I think called Campbell County? Why won’t Campbell County reform and have its own school system?
Fedup
April 23rd, 2010
2:17 pm
Reality, State law currently holds that GA may only keep the current number total for school districts; therefore, if/when Milton secedes, either South Fulton folds into APS, or APS folds into Fulton…that would keep the legislated number in line with the law. Never heard of Campbell County, but I do think that many, many years ago there was a Campbell HS in South Fulton. I believe the citizens in South Fulton who pay attention to this issue aren’t going to fight a separation as they should understand that the tax base in Atlanta is much better than North Fulton and perhaps they may benefit by belonging to a district where these urban schools can get the admin attention they need to improve.
RJ
April 23rd, 2010
2:19 pm
@Reality, there is crime EVERYWHERE! I live in a beautiful neighborhood with educated people. I have family that lives in Roswell and Alpharetta that live in beautiful neighborhoods with educated people. My neighborhood is 99% black, there’s is mostly white. To assume that our schools need bars is ridiculous!
@Fedup, I work in APS and I can assure you that I want no part of Atlanta City. We voted on this issue two years ago and chose to keep things as they are. We simply want fair play. We had to BEG for a new Westlake, when we get one it’s not close to many north Fulton schools. Plus, I live in the suburbs. I like living in the suburbs and I have no plan of leaving. Atlanta is urban, not south Fulton.
Trypout
April 23rd, 2010
2:23 pm
I grew up in Metro Atlanta and attended school in Dekalb County. I have a child in school in South Fulton but I work in North Fulton. The differences in the schools in each part of the county is like nothing I have ever seen. A class-system that has been established and will never change. Children will suffer because their parents are a part of the declining middle class and have not been able to break into the higher socio-economic class. The citizens of South Fulton need to stop worrying about what is in North Fulton because they will be Milton County soon enough. South Fulton just needs to go ahead and do what it has to do for their children because no one else is going to watch out for them.
Jamesr1991
April 23rd, 2010
2:26 pm
@Elem Teacher I’m sorry to break the news to you. Alpharetta, Milton and Johns Creek have only a few things in common as for the building. My SPLOST money, brick and mortar. Their designs and floor plans are VERY DIFFERENT. Visit Google Earth, Bing Maps and the schools website under Parsons to see those schools are NOT alike. Milton was built with General Funds money not SPLOST $. The masssive columns blew my mind. The old school was suppose to be sold for $25M so the money could go for the Westlake rebuild. The board reneged.
@Reality and Fedup Those of us from these parts don’t want any part of the City of Atlanta or it’s school system. Leave S Fulton out of any merging talk with Atlanta. we are paying our own way. It’s hard as you know what but we are not depending on north Fulton or Atlanta to survive.
There’s a reason why south Fulton and north Fulton schools are in the same athletic regions. They don’t want us to see the schools they have built with OUR MONEY
Jamesr1991
April 23rd, 2010
2:34 pm
@Elem Teacher sorry you are incorrect about the Milton, Alpharetta and Johns Creek high schools. They are as different as an apple and orange. Visit google earth, bing to see it for your self. The exteriors are not alike. They may have the same number of classrooms but that where the similarities end.
@Fed up I’m a native of Atlanta (Grady baby and proud). Those of us who know the history don’t want to be a part of Atlanta or its school system. The state law refers to county (capped at 159). Campbell and Milton County merged into Fulton when they went broke around 1932.
@Trypout Not sure why you are considering south Fulton middle class as declining. North Fulton was hit a lot harder by the economic tsunami than we all think. We can run our own system. I look forward to that day as long as we can be compensated for the money we’ve spent to build up their schools. My estimations were well over $2B in property in 2005.
Jamesr1991
April 23rd, 2010
2:40 pm
Enter your comments here
Jamesr1991
April 23rd, 2010
2:42 pm
The north Fulton schools are not alike in design. the number of rooms may be but they are totally different. Visit Google Earth or Bing Maps to see for yourself.
We don’t want any part of the city of Atlanta and its schools.
I would love to have a school district closer to me. I also want my money for all the property we’ve bought in what may become Milton County one day.
B. Killebrew
April 23rd, 2010
3:12 pm
Have they officially decided to call it Bethany Bend High School?
I do think that’s a good name for it.
fultonschoolsparent
April 23rd, 2010
7:54 pm
has anybody noticed that FCS is opening a south county elementary school that isn’t even needed next year as a way to keep south county happy? Ridiculous.
Not all N Fulton schools are palaces
April 24th, 2010
11:12 am
Visit North Springs, Chattahoochee, Centennial and Roswell and you won’t find Taj Mahals, but very basic, utilitarian buildings which, as others have noted, have only received relative tidbits of SPLOST monies (e.g. Centennial is (finally) getting their science labs and is still waiting to have a band room the size of the others.) Older schools in all parts of Fulton have dramatically different technology allocations, so don’t look so much at the north/south divide as the older/newer divide. These new schools have mounted LCD projectors in their classrooms, interactive white boards, flat-screen TVS, etc. At other (older) schools, teachers still have to share LCD projectors on carts and may have (no kidding), the 13″ TV/VCR combos in their classrooms for 32 students.
FedUp – the number of counties is limited in Georgia, not the number of school systems.
Not all N Fulton schools are palaces
April 24th, 2010
11:33 am
HB 1020, if passed by the Senate, would allow a referendum in November; voters could approve the use of eSPLOST dollars for educational maintenance and operations rather than just capital expenditures. Fulton could delay the construction of the Birmingham Hwy HS, and those funds could indeed be used to offset some of these instructional cuts in that case (assuming the referendum passed, of course).
Principal appointments
April 24th, 2010
1:23 pm
So apparently there are several routes – the job is posted and given to someone out of district (Sweet Apple), you post the job and go through the process of community input, interviews, etc. (Centennial?), you start the process and then appoint someone ( Renaissance, EPMS?), or you just appoint someone (Milton, Haynes Bridge). Seems they may have just given up posting the individual jobs, though, because now they just have generic principal for each level. There is an apparent “avalanche” of principal retirements…
Fulton County music teacher
April 24th, 2010
1:48 pm
REALITY is 100% on the money. Please refer to that comment.
I like this!
April 24th, 2010
2:57 pm
from “Reality”
These things need to happen (and in this order)…
1. State Law changed to allow teachers to have a real union.
2. Vote out the State republican politicans that are destroying education in GA.
3. Vote out and/or remove the school systems Board member. They did not properly manage funds and are forced to do these ridulous cut backs this year.
M George
April 24th, 2010
5:44 pm
Principal appointments…. so many great principals retiring. Maybe someone should ask why. the system is corrupt and broken. Does anyone know if other top level employees get perks like cars like they do in Fulton? They drive Lexus. Does this happen in Cobb?
MiltonMan
April 24th, 2010
6:06 pm
You clowns sound jealous. It is real easy – attend college; major in some high paying degree program & live in North Fulton. Hey we are trying to break away but the Atlanta & South Fulton morons don’t want a Milton County so we will instead get the most out of Fulton County. Our schools here are always in the top 10 because we expect that & will not settle for the garbage schools that are so prevalent in Atlanta & South Fulton.
high school parent
April 24th, 2010
6:18 pm
As a parent of two children in a high school in N. Fulton, I have to say that we do NOT need another new high school in our area. We did not need the new Johns Creek high but it was built anyway. And don’t even get me started on the Southern Plantation school a.k.a. Milton High School. My kids school was built to spec and we had to BEG the board to give us the science wing addition we so desperately needed. The board was trying to pull a fast one on us and divert the SPLOST money over to this new school site. We are cutting teachers and facing severe budget cuts and to spend the money on this new high school is morally wrong. We need the school board to get a clue.
high school parent
April 24th, 2010
6:20 pm
I have never heard of a principal around here getting a car. Where do you get this information?
M George
April 24th, 2010
6:25 pm
I wasn’t talking about principals with cars. I meant to ask if top central office people in Cobb get cars.
David S
April 24th, 2010
6:26 pm
Unaccountable government-run school system. The private sector only does this when it has enough money that is collected from voluntary payments or charitable contributions. Government always knows it can stick its gun in everyone’s face and get more money when it needs it.
And how would a completely private system of education be worse again?
David S
April 24th, 2010
6:29 pm
You can make the case for elimination of all government involvement in education with tons of facts, data about the marketplace and the like, but the best arguments are made in just reading the news about what the government has done with the money it has taken from the taxpayers and the results of its century or more of involvement.
Shannon, M.Div.
April 24th, 2010
6:52 pm
Maureen, you’ve been covering the ed beat long enough that you ought to have addressed whether or not this is done with SPLOST money upfront in the column!
oldtimer
April 24th, 2010
6:57 pm
As a retired teacher…I think the most important aspect to learning is great parents. Send a well-behaved, motivated child to me and I could teach with chalk, board, and old books. And, I would not even worry about the testing. My students always passed it.
@ Milton Man
April 24th, 2010
6:58 pm
@ Milton Man
Get off you high horse! North Fulton schools are not nearly as good as schools in the Midwest and other parts of the country. However, your children do perform well because the homes in which they are raised give them so many opportunities and advantages. The children born to families who cannot provide for them in the many ways that you do are all created equal in the eyes of God. They also deserve an excellent education!
Furthermore, barring birth defect, they are born with the same mental capacities as your children. Your child would not be such a stellar student if he/she were raised by an uneducated parent, or to a family struggling to make a better life for their child due to circumstances beyond their control. Your North Fulton teachers don’t have to be that great to teach your children. Many exceptional teachers are making great strides in many schools in Atlanta, but you turn your eyes, blinded by discrimination. Not just racial discrimination, but discrimination based upon your twisted sense of pride.
What have you done to make this world a better place for all? Have you considered fostering or mentoring a disadvantaged child? Do you care about the future your children will inherit? If the status quo continues in Georgia, you will soon enough become a minority and your children will be left to deal with the consequence of you ignorance.
Milton Man, You may be a great parent, but you are a lousy humanitarian!
Reality
April 24th, 2010
7:17 pm
@RJ
Okay, let me clearly spell it out for you since you seem to be unable to understand…..
Money means nothing. Big houses mean nothing. Give me, as a teacher, a student that is well behaved, follows the rules, has manners, and cares about education any day.
From ALL indications, those are not the traits found in South Fulton. I don’t give a rats a$$ if they are black, pink, yellow, purple, or blue.
From all indications those traits ARE found in North Fulton.
And, THEREIN lies the difference. When you have students that refuse to follow rules, don’t care about education, run wild in the halls, curse at teachers, are not respectful, etc. YOU NEED BARS IN THE SCHOOLS!
Reality
April 24th, 2010
7:19 pm
@RJ
Okay, let me spell if out for you…
Students need to follow rules, be respectful, do their work, care about education, and listen to teachers. These are the traits for a successfull school.
However, it is my understanding that these are NOT the traits found in South Fulton. Money means nothing. Big houses mean nothing. If the PARENTS haven’t taught their children basic manners, to be respectful of adults, and the importance of education, then….
MAYBE BARS ON THE SCHOOLS ARE A GOOD THING!
South Fulton Guy
April 24th, 2010
7:20 pm
Judge for yourself: http://www2.fultonschools.org/dept/capprog/High%20Schools/North%20Fulton%20HS/North%20Fulton%20HS.htm
Maureen Downey
April 24th, 2010
7:21 pm
Shannon, SPLOST is still tax dollars so I am not sure of your point. It is a dediciated funding stream to capital outlay, including apparently now artificial turf after the Cobb court ruling, but it doesn’t contradict my point that I prefer basic buildings and extraordinary teachers and instruction.
Maureen
disgusted
April 24th, 2010
7:28 pm
No one has been “minding the store”, which is why we are in this mess. At this point, no amount of marching or petitions can save us from the mess that we made. From the top to the bottom, everyone has a hand in this. From voters (or non-voters) to legislatures who frivously spend money. . .This is a bed that has been made but NOONE wants to sleep in it. The children will suffer just as the adults have been. And they say the recession is lifting. I beg to differ. Teachers have never been hit this hard and it is sad to see just how far they will go to cut corners in the name of saving. And why does everyone want to SAVE when they’re down to nothing?
disgusted
April 24th, 2010
7:32 pm
And the notion of the North wanting to split from the South shouldnt come as a surprise to anyone. It is, however, extremely sad and I concur with @miltonman wholeheartedly.
In addition, REALITY, I have found that $ doesn’t equal respect or having manners. I have worked with rich children in the “wonderful” city of Charleston who would do terrible things in class only to be given excuses by their parents as to why they would act that way. No reprimand, no apologies. nada.
I’ve seen plenty of rich kids, young and older, who have a mentality that they are owed the world and can act as they please without regard to others-especially those who don’t have what they do.
And the cylce continues. . .
bootney farnsworth
April 24th, 2010
8:03 pm
why should fulton not build its places?
every district and higher ed. is basically using this
crisis to promote its individual pork projects without
the “trivial” concerns of the faculty and staff.
the system is terminally broken.
Reality
April 24th, 2010
9:10 pm
@disgusted 7:32 PM
That has been my point all along in every post that I have made in this blog. RJ just hasn’t gotten the point. She continues to point out how wealthy the community is, but doesn’t understand that wealth does not equal civility and good parenting.
RJ
April 24th, 2010
9:37 pm
@Reality, you miss MY point. My grandmother lived in Buckhead, so my parents sent me to the school in her neighborhood. My highschool is located near multimillion dollar homes. My WHITE friends drove Mercedes, BMW’s, Porches, etc to school. Many of them also did major drugs. Their parents were never really around so they got away with murder. They had the money to buy whatever they wanted. So you see, I DO understand that wealth does not equal civility and good parenting. I base my statements on my life experiences, not mere opinion such as yourself.
The bars at Westlake were being used to trap students once the bell rang. These students aren’t thugs. They’re not BARBIE BANDITS that get away with a federal crime. They’re regular kids. What the school was doing was completely inappropriate. You have no idea how “South Fulton” kids behave because you don’t live in south Fulton. If you find this practice humane you are more ignorant than I thought.
Post what you will in response…I’m done.
Rainbow
April 24th, 2010
11:01 pm
The world would be a better place if all the races were mixed up… or humans were color blind!
Fulton County Observer
April 24th, 2010
11:32 pm
Maureen: Why not do a piece on what is really going on in Fulton County Schools instead of just blogging? When FCBOE Board members and higher up Executive Directors know that they are going to make the news, somehow or another, they seem to come up with the ethically correct way of doing things. Please find out about these appointments of principals, what “growth” data they used to build this new high school, and certainly why they refuse to change their motto?????
Lee
April 25th, 2010
6:49 am
I agree that many of the recently built schools appear to be ostentatious. Instead of spending $100,000 or so on an ornamental clock tower, I would prefer to build a few more classrooms.
My small, semi-rural school system has adopted the bad policy of building a new school and shutting down the old one. Why? Because they can get money for new schools but not for renovation. Add into the equation the fact that the school system only performs the most basic of maintenance on existing buildings, and you have a recipe for disposable schools. I.e., run it for 30 years and when it starts to fall apart, build a new one.
But hey, it’s only taxpayer money.
adam
April 25th, 2010
8:50 am
Palaces? Perhaps the AJC should be run in a barn instead of a nice office complex on marrietta street.
MiltonMan
April 25th, 2010
8:56 am
Funny to see all of these uneducated South Fulton & Atlanta clowns screaming how racists North Fulton is. The only racism coming out of Fulton is in South Fulton & Atlanta:
Fulton County sued for discrimination against white librarians
The Fulton County Commission Chair plays the race card along with John Lewis & Shirley “Temple” Franklin
etc. etc.
Care to discuss more or are you clowns so stupid to believe that only whites are racists???
@ Milton Man
April 25th, 2010
10:40 am
Milton Man,
Re-read my post.. April 24th, 2010 6:58 pm.
I am white and a doctor’s daughter. I live in North Gwinnett. I grew up with all of the advantages your children receive and more. I believe all children can learn, but it is not so easy to climb out of the hole when many children do not have the home, financial support, and “leg up” your children do not appreciate. With that being said, I look at the whole picture. Daniel Pink calls this kind of thinking “Symphony.” It is a “mind” which is will be necessary to succeed in the future. Many educated / wealthy parents seek out diversity and community service in all forms to better educate and prepare their children for the future.
I ask you once again,…
“What have you done to make this world a better place for all? Have you considered fostering or mentoring a disadvantaged child? Do you care about the future your children will inherit? If the status quo continues in Georgia, you will soon enough become a minority and your children will be left to deal with the consequence of you ignorance. Milton Man, You may be a great parent, but you are a lousy humanitarian!”
Milton Man, The future belongs to those who can think globally. Your own children will eventually suffer because of your narrow minded view of the world. How sad!
@ Milton Man
April 25th, 2010
10:44 am
Milton Man,
Forgot to add… I hold a Master’s Degree and enough additional hours to equal a PHD from a real university, not those online schools most of Georgia’s teachers and administrators hold!
@ Milton Man
April 25th, 2010
11:06 am
Filter!
Teacher
April 25th, 2010
12:34 pm
My only question regarding these new projects is about the technology in the classroom. I teach in a county with the best technology around…our school facilities could use a makeover, but our classrooms are packed with vital resources. I’ve spoken with several Fulton teachers that still do not have the most basic technology and are in the BEST schools in the county! How do the parents allow this to happen? I just can’t imagine watching the creation of another beautiful school building knowing that the classrooms inside will still be inadequate compared to the county next door. Is this not an issue for parents in Fulton County?
bootney farnsworth
April 25th, 2010
12:46 pm
@teacher,
parents don’t “allow” this crap to happen any more than
we do. the system is fatally flawed. where I am the
faculty/staff raised holy hell against many initiatives
proposed & inflicted upon us.
but they went thru anyways.
when the system is so fatally flawed, it doesn’t care what
or how anyone outside the partronage elite thinks or wants.
@ Milton Man
April 25th, 2010
12:48 pm
Maureen, I’m still in the filter!
Not all palaces
April 25th, 2010
2:45 pm
@ Teacher: See post 4/24 11:12 am which addresses exactly what you’re saying. The response I’ve heard to this question is that educational specifications (”ed specs”) are updated but aren’t retroactively applied to older buildings. This results in significant disparities between schools in the same town, much less the same system and, no, it doesn’t seem reasonable…(Of course, older high schools ARE getting expanded band rooms, but that seemed to be something of an OSHA issue; wonder if the science labs were the same?)
Reality
April 25th, 2010
3:20 pm
@RJ
So then, the bars were totally unnecessary? I seriously doubt that south fulton people would pay for those bars unless those kids needed them.
If parents taught their kids properly, and if kids did what they were supposed to do, then bars would not be needed.
End of story.
bootney farnsworth
April 25th, 2010
3:48 pm
@-@Milton Man
your defintion of what others do to make a “better world” has absolutley
nothing to do with the fact Fulton spends more than it brings in, and much of it on stupid social programs financed by the north 1/2 to benefit the south 1/2.
and attacking the poster is not even a novel way to try to hide your
lock of intelligent responses. classic liberal attack pattern Omega 1
and as for your claim of educational superiorty: – again, classic liberal attack pattern Omega 2 – once you actually get around to earning that Ph.D., let somebody know. the world is full of ABDs,
most too lazy or privledged to get around to completeing the task.
the future belongs to those who do the work to seize it. those who
“think globally” -classic liberal attack pattern Oemga 3 -will indeed have a place, and a special title.
we call them employees.
bootney farnsworth
April 25th, 2010
3:50 pm
exactly what did Milton Man say that was incorrect?
not politically incorrect – factually incorrect.
bootney farnsworth
April 25th, 2010
3:55 pm
“Many educated / wealthy parents seek out diversity and community service in all forms to better educate and prepare their children for the future.”
proof?
most wealthy folks work like hell to avoid the liberal “diversity” in all its forms.
bootney farnsworth
April 25th, 2010
3:55 pm
stupid filter
MiltonMan
April 25th, 2010
8:16 pm
@ Milton Man – you are such a dork that you cannot even come up with a creative name. Here are the facts you ignorant azz:
I grew up poor in Alabama on a farm; went into the military to obtain the GI bill. You see silver spoon witch, my parents could not afford to send me to school. I went on and got a BS in engineering along with a MS. I was a big brother/little brother for four years – won an award from the university for this.
I currently have received the president’s award for my volunteer work to include Habitat for Humanity & a science tutor for inner city schools.
Any other ill informed judgments you would like to place upon me idiot?
@ Milton Man
April 25th, 2010
11:10 pm
Your name-calling offends me. Apparently your education did little to expand your vocabulary!
Ole Guy
April 26th, 2010
6:46 am
Milton, one marvels at how easily such an “educated” individual becomes so distracted from the topic of commentary. Your literary demeanor does not speak well of your “achievements”.
On the topic of high school palaces: Have the construction companies, contractors, etc, been investigated for political ties? In this climate of public discord with legislative chicanery, there are many, I am quite certain, who view their days of wine and roses as numbered.
MiltonMan
April 26th, 2010
7:27 am
@ Milton Man is offended by my comments but still feels free to call me names??? Are you bi polar?
believe it!!!
April 26th, 2010
11:35 am
I like the comment about the private sector only building when receiving enough funds from parents, contributions, fund raisers etc. this is soooo true! My children’s school is over 50 years old! They put the money into teacher’s pay, we have teacher’s that have been teaching over 20 plus years average, because they are treated so well and wouldn’t think about going to any of these public schools to teach. Don’t get me wrong, a lot of private schools don’t pay teachers much, but the good ones will pay them alot better to keep them! Thank God they aren’t putting this into building/palaces right now and into our student’s curricula, teacher’s pay were it belongs!!! I have also noticed that most of these palaces private and public, aren’t the schools that produce the high scoring, achieving students.
Molly Smith
April 26th, 2010
2:55 pm
School districts operate from two funding streams: one is for capital expenditures (facilities) and the other is for operations (salaries, maintenance, etc.). The first is generally state or bond funded. If the district doesn’t use the capital monies they lose them. The two funding streams cannot be intermixed or one used for the other. It is actually a smart thing for the district to build this school now while construction costs are low; they will have a school that is beautiful and will serve the district for 50+ years to come. When we build beautiful schools, we tell students, teachers and community how much their educational experience means to us. Thanks for the great forum! Check out our blog at http://www.thinksmartplan.com/wordpress!
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@ Milton Man & Ole Guy
April 26th, 2010
6:47 pm
Milton Man,
I think I said you were a lousy humanitarian.
Ditto!
Ole Guy,
You are intelligent. I like you! (I’m also “Big Deal Mom!)
La Profesroa
April 26th, 2010
9:52 pm
I teach at a North Fulton high school, and the achievement gap that exists between north and south fulton is based on one common element: The presence of meddling and bullying by north fulton parents regarding their child’s grades and the lack of meddling and bullying by south fulton parents.
The north fulton students are not any smarter or more capable than the south fulton students, they just have parents that know how to manipulate and “work” the system in their favor by threatening to sue for everything.
congrats!
April 27th, 2010
12:07 am
WOW! You would think that would work at a private school wouldn’t ya?? We went in the other day to talk with one of my son’s teachers about his grade and he told me that we should be happy with the 89 my son received. He started off with a 97. The teacher explained that the topic is now more in-depth and that the 89 was great and that we should’nt put so much stress on our son. He has been teacher at this school for over 25 years. We sure didn’t get his great inflated. At least we know our child is truly learning and college will see that he didn’t go to one of these grade inflated factories or we just wasted our money for our child not to get a perfect 4.0 but will be able to get through college because he learned something in high school. I don’t know any more!!!!
La Profesroa
April 27th, 2010
7:09 am
@Congrats….Congratulations to that teacher having the backbone to stand her ground without getting in trouble with her administrator?????? And for the record, get your facts straight, it doesn’t occur in private schools, and Fulton County is the only county that has a Recovery Policy. For those that don’t know what that is: Students can retake the test that negative impacted their GPA. If that isn’t grade inflation then I don’t know what that is. Talk about not preparing them for the harsh reality of college grades.
MiltonMan
April 27th, 2010
9:24 am
La Profesroa you, lkie most teachers, are clueless. My kids attend North Fulton schools and are straight A students who are active in clubs, sports & the older son holds down a job. The only time I “meddled” in the school was in 2003 when his social studies teacher had them write a letter to none other than Max Cleland. The problem was that Max Clelnad was voted out in 2002. I sent an email to the teacher & got no response. I went to talk to the prinicipal who was very apologetic.
What a wonderful job you teachers do when you do not even know who is in office.
Congrats!
April 27th, 2010
10:59 am
Yes, I am aware about the recovery policy, however I am sure it is for almost all public schools in Georgia. A lot of public schools in Cherokee have what they call, freshman academy. This allows students to take an hour lunch. If a student receives anything lower than a c on a test they go during lunch time and get to study and retake the test until they make at least a B. This is why so many public school students are all on the honor roll. They get to college with their HOPE and lose it the first semester. My child us to be a straight A student too until we started attending a private school in Cobb. Maybe we should go back so he can too graduate at the top of his class and look like a shinning star. Just kidding! I want him to be able to make it all the way through college. At least he’s learning. How amazing that parents don’t have a clue about what is truly going on in these schools.
Ole Guy
April 27th, 2010
12:32 pm
Big Deal, I am truly humbled by your comment, however, there are those in other communities of endeavor who will vehemently dispute that descriptive. Through your descriptions of your son, and his achievements, I believe he is far-more deserving of this honor…THANKS!
La Profesroa
April 27th, 2010
9:48 pm
@MiltonMan..Kudos to your children’s achievements! But, for the record, I do know who is in office despite the fact that I teach a foreign language…it’s a shame that a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch when it comes to us teachers.@Congrats..I am so happy to know that a parent is aware of the problem with the Hope scholarships recipients, and their inflated high school grades. Over 50% of these kids lose Hope within the first year at college, thanks to the “extra credit” opportunities and the retaking of tests, not to mention, we cannot have a certain amount of students failing without being scrutinized or reprimanded….I am so tired of parents like Milton Man who consistently criticize and attack public school teachers’ credibility and instructional ability. If you think we are so clueless, then why don’t you send your children to private schools. But wait, that would mean that the child will have to work and compete harder for their grades. Now IMAGINE THAT.
La Profesroa
April 27th, 2010
10:06 pm
@Milton Man…it’s easier to attack and criticize teachers, but the real fault and influence comes from on top, and if you ask me, board members, superintendents, and our lawmakers are the true CLUELESS ONES. We are at the bottom of the list when compared to other states, and we teachers have absolutely no say in Georgia in regards to curriculum objectives, grading rules, testing, and all of the above. Go vent to your area superintendent and board members about us “clueless teachers”, if you know who they are, that is.