Does race influence who gets suspended in Georgia schools?
The AJC has a story today about increasing concerns that African-American students are being pushed out of traditional schools in Georgia and into alternative schools for minor offenses. I hesitate to offer this up as discussion topic because the conversation often goes to stereotypes and racist rhetoric without any real consideration of the issue at hand.
I would like to bypass such knee-jerk reactions and have an honest discussion about whether race influences who is disciplined and how severely in our schools.
As a reporter who had the requisite stint covering cops and courts, I believe race still plays a role in how young people are treated, whether for mouthing off to a teacher or getting caught in a car with pot. And numerous studies support that observation.
According to the AJC:
“Even in counties where African-Americans make up a small percentage of the population, they still make up a large majority of suspensions and students placed in alternative settings,” said Edward DuBose, president of the Georgia State Conference NAACP.
DuBose will hold a press conference to highlight the issue at 1 p.m. Wednesday at the state Capitol.
He will be joined by Chara Fisher Jackson, legal director for the American Civil Liberties Union of Georgia, and Richard R. Boykin, attorney for Amitai Carter, a Houston County special education student sent to alternative school.
Carter, a 15-year-old ninth-grader, was among about 100 students watching a fight after school early last month, Boykin said. He said Carter was videotaping the fight with his cellphone when a white assistant principal came from behind and placed him in a chokehold.
In response, Boykin said Carter swore at the assistant principal and was later expelled.
What happened to Carter, activists say, is typical of what happens to too many African-American students nationwide.
Neither Houston County Superintendent David Carpenter nor Assistant Superintendent for School Operations Robin Hines was available for comment.
“They’re all in budget meetings,” said Beth McLaughlin, a spokeswoman for the district.
Boykin said expulsion seemed unreasonable and excessive under the circumstances, adding his client “may be a cause celebre in terms of what’s happening to black males” in Georgia schools.
“We hope that just shining a little light on this situation in terms of suspension and expulsion we can reverse this trend,” Boykin said.
DuBose said that out of 338 out-of-school suspensions in Houston County in 2009, 235 of those students, or 69 percent, were African-American. Blacks make up only 35 percent of the district’s total enrollment, he said.
Statewide, he said, 153,279 students were suspended in 2009 66 percent of them African-American. At the same time, blacks make up only 38 percent of total enrollment, he said.
“This is an ongoing trend that we are seeing not only in Georgia but throughout the country that funnels children into the school to prison pipeline,” said Jackson, of the ACLU of Georgia.
“It’s a matter of over-disciplining children for minor offenses and adhering to strict and repressive zero-tolerance policies that don’t make school safer but deprive children of the education and services that they are entitled to,” Jackson said.
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191 comments Add your comment
Proud Black Man
April 5th, 2010
10:02 pm
Of course it does.
ACLU out to lunch on this one
April 5th, 2010
10:16 pm
Someone truly doesn’t get and needs to get out of the ivory tower and go sit in a classroom if they think the problem is over-disciplining children in the public schools. Maybe after they are verbally abused, or even physically threatened or assaulted with little to no consequences to the student, they’ll get the perspective they so clearly need to add something meaningful to the discussion.
The problem isn’t over discipline, it’s under discipline until behaviors spiral out of control to the point where expulsions occur and the criminal justice system gets involved.
They would do all students, including poor and minority ones, a much better service by advocating for more discipline and structure in the schools, not less.
V for Vendetta
April 5th, 2010
10:33 pm
Easy answer:
No, behavior does.
However, as many are likely to say, if the discipline were improved from the bottom up, we would not have nearly as many problems from students–race be damned. Though some would say the racial disparity is concerning, I would argue that the overall state of discipline in public schools is FAR more worrisome. Step into any “college prep” public high school classroom to see what fourteen or fifteen years of no discipline looks like. I promise you this: the county you’re in will not make any difference at all.
middle school teacher
April 5th, 2010
10:37 pm
So how do I handle the two referrals that I have made this year for cell phones violatins with two minority students? I would prefer not to do any referrals, but what do you do for blatant disregard of the rules? Both were warned, caught, warned again, and caught again. One was all on the same day! By the way, I rarely make any referrals at all.
AlreadySheared
April 5th, 2010
10:40 pm
A question that will likely not be answered:
what are the rates of suspension are for
kids who are members of households with only a single female parent
vs
kids who are members of households with only a single male parent
vs
kids who are members of households with a married mother and father.
Attentive Parent
April 5th, 2010
10:42 pm
Maureen,
This is part of the newly announced US dept of Justice policy on using disparate impact analysis in the K-12 classroom.
Difference in behavior problems outside the % of the population? The school or district will now be expected to explain why that’s not racism.
Difference in who is taking the AP or honors classes? Again explain the discrepancy or just eliminate any variance in the programs offered.
Real differences in student needs, behavior, and aspirations must now be ignored to avoid a federal investigation.
What a national tragedy.
Other ACLU warnings
April 5th, 2010
10:45 pm
In addition to the ACLU heightening awareness of the over discipline in public schools, they also want to bring attention to the following:
-The unconscionable number of calories in water
-The overabundance of nutrients in soft drinks
-The excessive use of coarse and vulgar language on Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood
And of course the population explosion of penguins in Arizona, which threatens the ecosystem in the desert.
Tweets that mention Does race influence who gets suspended in Georgia schools? | Get Schooled -- Topsy.com
April 5th, 2010
10:53 pm
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history teacher
April 5th, 2010
11:02 pm
Come and spend they day in many high schools and you will see that the problem that schools are are now dealing with is an entire generation of children who really believe that they can do whatever they want to do with no consequences. I dont see this as a race issue but a parenting issue. Students that have no discipline at home find it very difficult to handle it at school. Students are entitled to an education but that entitlement does not come with a free pass to disrupt and intefer with other students right to their education. I have a great suggestion for staying out of alternative school. Dont fight, dont curse out teachers and administrators, follow the rules and be appreciative and take advantage of the free education that the majority of the world’s children dont have assess to. Parents, if you want to keep you child out of alternative school, be involved before there is a problem, make your child come to school, and discipline your child when he or she needs it. If you dont or can’t, I can assure you that your undisciplined child will find the real world a hard place.
Inherent contradiction
April 5th, 2010
11:15 pm
Maureen says she doesn’t want knee jerk reactions, but the ACLU’s statement that there is over discipline in the schools is the ultimate in knee jerk reactions.
Not to mention it may be the single most nonsensical statement ever made about public schools in America.
disappointed
April 5th, 2010
11:22 pm
The article focuses on one example of a white admin with an African-American student. What about African-American admisn with African-American students. What are the stats for CCPS, where we know almost all the admins are African-American.
And kudos to the one who talks abotu nto enough students getting taken out of the classroom. I wish we had MORE alternative schools or other alternative placements for students. Mayeb then the good kids could learn more in the classrooms. And an alternative school in CCPS that actually works.
Lee
April 5th, 2010
11:31 pm
This is simply a matter of the NAACP trying to create an issue where none exists. The NAACP lives off donations. To generate donations, they have to create a crisis.
It’s really that simple.
Laura
April 5th, 2010
11:36 pm
My question is why isn’t this child’s behavior addressed? A point could have been better made with something mundane like dress code, or cell phone use, or tardies. I’m sorry, but videotaping an illegal altercation, especially on school grounds, with intent to re-broadcast is a crime and will get you locked up in juvy at least overnight. The cussing at the administrator is just icing on the cake.
The admin never should have grabbed the kid, but the kid never should have been watching, let alone taping, the fight to begin with.
I used to teach at my county’s alternative school before they closed it, and a vast majority of the kids there *were* minority students, but they came from schools with minority majority populations and these schools had minority administrations. Very rarely did we get minority students from the eastern and northern part of the county, and those schools have mostly white administrations.
Why did the southern part of the county wind up more represented than the rest? Not race, but socioeconomic. Maybe someone should look into why poorer children of all races seem to get into trouble more than the middle class and upper middle class students, and then trace the causes back to their home life and how a lack of money influences that.
Deprivation and exposure to influences at an early age shapes attitude and life choices far, far more than race, which really doesn’t influence it at all.
Laura
April 5th, 2010
11:37 pm
Oops… I think the length of my comment freaked the filter out.
Future Teacher
April 5th, 2010
11:48 pm
As someone said already, the quick answer is no. Behavior does. With that said, students with behavior problems are most likely to be black. From there, closer analysis is warranted.Correlation does NOT imply causation.
Are black children with both parents at home more likely have these problems or black children in single parent homes? I’d bet my degree it’s the latter. I don’t want to seem as if I completely dismissing single parents as bad or ineffective parents; I’ve come across several that give more than both parents. However, in the midst of so much social ill, I guess it gets hard having no backup. On the other hand, there are some parents who care nothing more than how fast they can get their kids to bed so they can go clubbing!
Unfortunately, as teachers, there isn’t too much we can do for these children; the behavior is a symptom for a larger problem (at home) that we can’t fix. Unfortunately, we have a generation of kids that are missing a major component in their lives, and we can’t replace it. However, I do believe there IS some sort of solution to help these kids.
Middle school math teacher
April 5th, 2010
11:55 pm
History Teacher hit the nail on the head!!! Here is a copy of his/her post:
the problem that schools are are now dealing with is an entire generation of children who really believe that they can do whatever they want to do with no consequences. I dont see this as a race issue but a parenting issue. Students that have no discipline at home find it very difficult to handle it at school. Students are entitled to an education but that entitlement does not come with a free pass to disrupt and intefer with other students right to their education. I have a great suggestion for staying out of alternative school. Dont fight, dont curse out teachers and administrators, follow the rules and be appreciative and take advantage of the free education that the majority of the world’s children dont have assess to. Parents, if you want to keep you child out of alternative school, be involved before there is a problem.
In the Midst
April 6th, 2010
12:32 am
As an educator who has worked with different student populations, race does play a part, but not in the manner implied. Unfortunately, African-American students tend to challenge authority more often, with the support of their parents. There are a variety of reasons this has happened and the socioeconomic status has nothing to do with it, but the emphasis of peer influences and the images of popular culture. It doesn’t matter if the child is from a single parent household, or two parents, I have seen this behavior from both environments. African-American students are more willling to resolve conflicts with verbal and physical altercations, which also is often reinforced by the parents.
With this understanding, I have learned how to deal with this and I have rarely had this issue in my classroom, however, now all educators and/or administrators understand how to handle these students and they often escalate their behavior.
There is no easy answer as the solution seems to be rooted in a need for a cultural revolution. However, point fingers without truly understanding the problem will only exaserbate the problem.
Fred
April 6th, 2010
12:37 am
When will we tire of the race card?
Ole Guy
April 6th, 2010
1:16 am
When I was a hs student, if someone had approached me from the rear and ATTEMPTED a chock hold, that person would have been on the ground pronto. There are certain means of contact which demand over-powering retaliatory response…a chokhold from the rear is definitely one of them. This idiot Asst Prins had no idea what the kid’s capabilities were. Had the kid been trained properly, the idiot would have suffered far more than he would have bargained for on his worse day. The rules of engagement should have started with a verbal command, followed by “hard hands” restraint. Untrained, the kid might have struggled to the point where he might have incured serious injury (assuming the chokehold involved application of force against the neck, this would have been a very possible outcome).
THE ASST PRINCIPAL OWES THE KID, AND THE ENTIRE SCHOOL BODY, AN APPOLOGY. He should be viewed, most-certainly, with respect and…yes, fear…but most-certainly not as a potential source of serious injury.
On the broader topic of racial influence on punishment: Unfortunately, racial bias, among visible leaders, continues in unabashed openness. Such behavior only diminishes any respect that leader has enjoyed.
However, in defense of those who would appear to administer punishment based on racial consideratio:
We have all, at one time or another, read an article on how to avoid, or at least minimize consequences when a law enforcement officer pulls one over for a relatively minor offense, say exceeding posted speed limits by a few mph. Perhaps we have even had the experience…I certainly have! The #1 rule…ATTITUDE…applies in just about any confrontational event.
All-too-often, people (race-immaterial), for one reason or another, feel entitled to “un-earned” or non-appropriate treatment. Those of us who have had an encounter with that traffic cop know that, often times, the difference between a verbal warning and a costly ticket is simple civility. As with many issues in the educational camp, these things, more times than not, point right back to home environment and parental influence.
Sheared, you bring up some interesting considerations. Is there anyone in the ed camp who might exercise a little initiative and track some of these issues among those students consigned to alt schools?
justbrowsing
April 6th, 2010
5:25 am
The attitude of entitlement is the core motivating issue which I think perpetuates this type of ignorance. Times have changed. Students who wanted to attend school and were denied access, or the right, to a free and appropriate education minus the injustices of racism and prejudice during the Civil Rights era, are different from today’s African American student who is far removed from the realities of that period, and in general does not understand the correlation between between education, empowerment, and life course. In these instances, the race card IS being played to the detriment of the student. There are boundaries that students should not breach, and there are decisions that they are ill equipped to make. So much for the “let the child make their own decisions movement”. That is exactly why we are in the boat we are in right now. It is issues like this that empower the school choice movement, as public schools must cater to bureaucratic whims that protect the rights of those who disrupt the public school environment, at the expense of those who are trying to learn and achieve. I am all for creating more alternative schools, and more lax means for removing these students from the regular education environment. Public education will not survive if we don’t.
retired
April 6th, 2010
5:49 am
Discipline at home and in the community is part of the problem and so is the different types of expectations in different communities. Students do come to school different and schools cannot change 16 hours of one thing with 8 hours of education alone. Parents need to take responsibility in making sure that the students know that school is for learning – not cell phones, or posturing, or reps, or all the other ways that students find not to listen to the teacher. What will happen if this type of analyis(?) is continued is that school will be dumbed down to the lowest leavel of behavior and they will fall .
Sally
April 6th, 2010
6:42 am
Behavior is the factor that gets students suspended. Behavior is a result of home training. There is a huge difference in behavior expected in white and Asian homes than is expected in black and Hispanic homes. It is called parenting!! If one race gets suspended more than another is has nothing to do with the color of the skin but the behavior! As long as blacks and Hispanic parents refuse to teach their children how to behave not only will they get suspended in larger numbers, they will also continue to kill each other and fill out jails.
Mo
April 6th, 2010
7:03 am
As a teacher with 30 years experience, I would like to say that History Teacher is so right. Often, when you meet the parents of students in trouble, you realize how the problem started.
Single Mom
April 6th, 2010
8:29 am
In our society today our kids are taught that we all succeed whether that is true or not. When they play sports everyone gets a trophy. In real life that is not the case. We must teach our children how to fail and learn from it then move ahead and try harder next time. They must learn how to win and loose gracefully. I have heard so many times lets just give them another chance. These kids are so used to getting one more chance they don’t understand there are concequences to actions. When they are punished now it is because they are black or the teacher just doesn’t like my child. If we teach dicipline at home and support teachers and their efforts maybe the hard lesson would never have to come. Black children have been taught that the world owes them something. They also use the single parent home as a reason to cry foul. If you have them you owe them. If you can’t invest your time in your child don’t have them. Teach them that if they behave badly there is a punishment.
Why is a simple answer so hard to understand? It is easier to make excuses and cry race than to admit where the real blame should be placed.
2000 Pound Elephant
April 6th, 2010
8:50 am
Funny how everybody keeps tip-toeing around the issue. For those of you not currently enlightened here you go:
http://www.colorofcrime.com/colorofcrime2005.html
ScienceTeacher671
April 6th, 2010
8:51 am
History Teacher, justbrowsing, and retired have pretty well summed it up.
The assistant principal should not have grabbed the student in a choke hold however. As In The Midst notes, there are administrators and staff who exascerbate bad situations, and those who know how to defuse them.
C'mon
April 6th, 2010
8:53 am
As usual, the answer lies somewhere between the two poles. I have worked with a minority kids that just don’t get it, and I have worked with plenty of racist teachers that have no business working in a majority-minority school. Both factors are a part of the equation.
What I find most disturbing though, is that no teachers ever admit ANY culpability in the problems our education system faces. As long as teachers act like they are beyond reproach, we will never get anything solved.
Bob LeBlah
April 6th, 2010
8:55 am
Here we go, more excuses. Let’s isolate one incident and make it sound like the reason why 70% of suspensions are given to black kids is because of the big, mean, intolerant white people. Hmm, I think there might be another factor in there, like lack of good parenting; broken households; lack of respect for others. Black leaders keep focusing on the end results (statistics) and not solving the problem.
soccermom
April 6th, 2010
9:00 am
I am the white parent of 2 boys. My older one is a freshman in college and the younger one is in high school. They are both honor students and athletes. They both have numerous Latino friends. I mentor a Latino boy who was involved in gangs in middle school but since decided to remove himself from that environment in order to get his high school diploma and hopefully have a better life when he gets older. I also substitute in the high school.
Here are some things that I have observed:
1. The Latino boy I am mentoring has very little at-home supervision.
2. He has no support, encouragement, or high expectations for his schooling from parents or his peer group.
3. Because he was in with a bad crowd in middle school, he has been labeled as a trouble-maker and, even with an entire year of good behavior and good grades, he cannot shed that label. He has been harassed by the SRO and VP in charge of discipline, searched for drugs, and generally hounded.
4. A friend of my younger son is a goof-ball but definitely not involved in gangs or drugs. If something happens while a teacher’s back is turned, the teachers immediately jump to the conclusion that this boy is responsible. He is scolded repeatedly for things that are not his doing. I guess there is a lot of stereotyping going on.
5. My older son, who drives a car similar to those driven by the Latino boys in the area and who is a very thoughtful and deliberate young man and careful driver, was stopped by the local police. And when the officer saw that he was white, the officer acted surprised, blustered for a minute about absolutely nothing, and then sent my son on his way without mentioning a reason for the traffic stop.
6. Now, with all that said, I will also say that law enforcement will harass male teenagers concerning things for which they wouldn’t dream of stopping the parents or any other adult. And law enforcement in our county tends to provide a very poor example of abiding by the rules. It is very hard to explain to my student driver why the police car blew by us at 90 miles per hour (I clocked him), using no lights or sirens, and then pulls off the interstate and pulls into the drive-through of the local fast food restaurant!
Show me the money
April 6th, 2010
9:15 am
Bob, there’s no money or political power in solving the problem.
catlady
April 6th, 2010
9:15 am
I agree with the posters. From what I see where I live (where the only students of color are Hispanic and biracial children), I don’t see racism in suspensions, which happen alarmingly rarely. We should have tighter discipline, instead of the “piece of candy and back to class” routine, which does not work. I am not sure suspension works for the kid, either, but it gives the other students a chance to learn, a view of a world with consequences, and the parents a chance to “bond” with their student who has been suspended. All of these are good. We should employ suspension more often. At my school, students of color make up 16% of the student body, but account for 10% of the ISS or OSS (and it is the same kids every time). Our kids rarely get any kind of suspension.
I have advocated for years that we get very tough on the little things at the beginning of the year. Then they are less likely to escalate into bigger things (The old broken window theory of crime) rather than squandering a year of their classmate’s time. Haven’t gotten anywhere on that. Too bad, because in the end our stats would look BETTER because we would have taken care of the problem. In addition, learning for the rest would be enhanced.
I’d also like alternative placement for chronically misbehaving elementary school students, with court-mandated parental involvement.
I’d also like to win the lottery, while we are dreaming.
Time for a change
April 6th, 2010
9:16 am
History Teacher is 100% correct!!!!!!
catlady
April 6th, 2010
9:20 am
BTW, serving coffee on an airline flight “causes” air turbulance!
Panda8
April 6th, 2010
9:23 am
Unless they studied and compared the punishment for certain types of offenses, the article appears to be all opinion. There is no real information in it – only a misuse of irrelevant statistics. They draw the conclusion that the punishment for the same offenses is worse for minorities, but offer nothing to indicate that. It is simply poor writing, or just outright and purposefully misleading people to stir up the pot. It’d be nice if the paper would use some standards, or at least send the original article over to an opinion column.
For the issue… well, perhaps – but we’ve no relevant numbers to look at, so any judgment made would be anecdotal. I’ve no doubt that not EVERY punishment is perfectly fair. Some may have legitimate complaints. I also doubt that there is a large widespread difference here, if the differences in behavior are accounted for. As usual, I expect we’d see a much much clearer picture if we accounted for socioeconomic differences instead of just looking to what the media loves to blame.
Yes, it's true!
April 6th, 2010
9:32 am
The education level of the parents makes a difference, whether white, black, asian, or hispanic. Separating students only exacerbates the problem. What we need is more acceptance and respect for all of mankind. I just don’t have the answer as to how we can achieve this balance.
I see this divide as greater here in the Atlanta metro area due to the history of racism in the South. Teachers I have worked with identify students by their racial group,… the “black kids,” or the “hispanic kids.” Why can’t they just call them kids? Why does the administrator first ask the student’s race, before reading the referral? Why does my former school have intervention teams that are all black and hispanic? Segregation is certainly not the answer!
If it is indeed the home life, why don’t we do more to educate the child and the parents so that they can become more successful in school and in life? This can’t happen without positive role models. We need to work towards a future goal of harmonious and appreciative interactions. Interaction is what’s needed, not segregation. America is for all men – red, brown, yellow, black or white!
Tony
April 6th, 2010
9:34 am
Obviously, statistics do NOT lie. After all, we have just taken a statistical analysis of erasures on CRCT answer sheets and accused schools of cheating just because their students had higher than average erasures. Since statistics don’t lie, we can extend that logic to discipline statistics and determine that schools over-discipline certain students based on the fact that the racial summary information regarding referrals and consequences indicate higher than average incidents for certain groups.
The fact of the matter for discipline is simple. There are some groups of children who have higher than average incidents that must be addressed. Because some schools choose to address those misbehaviors in meaningful ways now leads to those schools being accused of race-based discipline strategies.
At some point, everyone must acknowledge that there are certain disciplinary standards that contribute to learning. So-called “minor” offenses are routinely responsible for shutting down classes. While it is very easy to take one incident out of context to use as an example, what is not being done is painting a full picture of the kinds of poor behavior exhibited by some students on a consistent basis.
Videoing a fight on a cell phone is bad behavior. The school should not tolerate this any more than they should tolerate the fight itself. Why that incident has been highlighted and placed in the article as an example of “minor” incident completely baffles me. These things are not minor.
There are many challenges for school leaders as we work to maintain a good, positive learning environment. Unfortunately, one of the things we must do is suspend or expel students that violate the behavior standards. Until more people work with us to raise these expectations, we will not be able to raise student achievement in many schools affected by such egregious misbehaviors.
Attentive Parent
April 6th, 2010
9:35 am
Here is the link to the official announcement by the Ed Dept and Justice Dept that mere disproportionality will now be used to infer discriminatory intent.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704706304575107653593000486.html
Many observers at the time asked if we are moving to a policy where bad behavior will have to be ignored because of the skin color or ethnicity of the perpetrator.
If disparate impact sounds nerdy, it’s the legal concept that was at issue in last summer’s firefighter US Supreme Court case. If there is a discrepancy in who passes the licensing exam, do you throw out the test?
How do you want the firefighter supervisors to be selected?
Are personal safety and physical property more important than race and ethnicity?
There’s tremendous political power from emphasizing identity politics and pernicious ideas like disparate impact.
It’s hard to read the WSJ story above and see how this policy will not further undermine discipline and academics in our schools.
Sonny Perdue
April 6th, 2010
9:41 am
Edward DuBose is just trying to one-up the “Honorable” Mr. Johnson after Hank proved his fine wisdom of landforms in front of the Nation. Hey Ed, go be a teacher and try to actually make a positive difference instead of lining your pockets by spreading hate.
2000 Pound Elephant
April 6th, 2010
9:42 am
It just gets worse people:
http://www.colorofcrime.com/colorofcrime2005.pdf
Zero Tolerance
April 6th, 2010
9:49 am
@ Sally – Initially I was just going to make a comment to the question for this blog but I am going to comment on what you just said first. Being a certain race has nothing to do with the child’s behavior. My classroom is 95% “caucasian” and these children are rude. Everyday I have an issue with 4 of them. When you contact the parent about the behavior, there is little to no response to correcting the behavior and these children come from single and both-parent affluential homes. So explain that one? I have find with my kids(in the classroom) they act out because they are not getting the attention at home. Once you give them that individualized attention, they straightened up.
Now on to race and discipline @ schools – I also believed for some time that it played a part in discipline, until my nephew moved to southern Henry county. This school system is a zero tolerance school zone and I can honestly say that when they issue disciplince it’s truly based on “zero tolerance” and it is in the handbook what your consequences are if you break a rule and has nothing to do with race.
ScienceTeacher671
April 6th, 2010
10:00 am
filter
Attentive Parent
April 6th, 2010
10:07 am
ZT-
A zero tolerance policy can still lead to a compliance review if the discipline outcomes are out of proportion to the student population.
Under disparate impact analysis higher rates of bad behavior by certain racial or ethnic groups alone can trigger a problem and cause a Civil Rights review for the school or district.
Can you imagine the effect on school discipline and morale as that becomes better known?
A Different Opinion
April 6th, 2010
10:24 am
No……it’s people like Maureen Downey who write columns defending their behavior that is the cause. Remember, these kids read this stuff too and your column and comments received on the SW DeKalb Band Video is what gives them the courage to do any and everything, thinking that their behavior will be viewed as OK. Yea, it’s a racial thing but, they’re not being singled out anymore than anyone else…….yeah, you can say I’m still ticked about your comment back to me.
Maureen Downey
April 6th, 2010
10:37 am
To everyone, Take a look at this report – you click on Georgia on the map and you can get some interesting stuff on disparities in treatment of black and white teens under the law: http://www.burnsinstitute.org/state_map.php
Maureen
ScienceTeacher671
April 6th, 2010
10:52 am
Interesting, Maureen….wonder why incarcerations are down across the board in GA since 1999? Or maybe I should wonder why there was a spike that year?
response
April 6th, 2010
10:55 am
I have not read the report or the new approach, but only these articles and responses. What concerns me about this, as with about everything in education (such as the CRCTs), is that no one seems interested in measuring the “inputs.” If there are kids from other racial groups who are misbehaving and not being sanctioned, then there is a problem. But, as it has been focused on here, it seems that we are only interested in outcomes, not inputs. BOTH have to be considered. I agree with the posters who are concerned that this is continuing the treacherous slope away from discipline and, as a result, learning for the other children in the classroom. At what point do parents get involved?
but, Tony...
April 6th, 2010
11:01 am
It might be a bad behavior to video a fight, but does that justify putting a chokefold on the kid from behind? Is it unreasonable for anyone who gets that treatment to say a few choice words at the offender?
I don’t think you can just say some schools are trying to deal with discipline issues meaningfully. The question is which discipline issues they choose to deal with. I think differences in “cultures” (with small “c,” I suppose) play a huge role – what is “minor” and what is “intolearable” are influenced by the “cultures” we belong to. We typically belong to multiple “cultures,” but they are often separated by race/ethnicity, socioeconomic status, age, gender, etc. Whenever two cultures meet, there could be mismatch of expectations. And, in those situations, the one with more power – school administration, in this context – uses his/her standards to judge the other.
Having said all of the above, I also think if we want to examine whether or not there are indeed disparities in treatment of black and white students, we should probably need to look more locally – probably at the individual school level than at the state level. In this case, combining statistics might really skew the data.
James
April 6th, 2010
11:16 am
Maureen, I’m disappointed. You stated emphatically that you believe racism already plays a role in how young people are treated and then asked for an “honest discussion about whether race influences who is disciplined and how severely in our schools.” Are we children that our opinions should be given to us?
your quote:
“As a reporter who had the requisite stint covering cops and courts, I believe race still plays a role in how young people are treated, whether for mouthing off to a teacher or getting caught in a car with pot. And numerous studies support that observation.”
FLAWoodLayer
April 6th, 2010
11:45 am
Yes it plays a role. Here is a link to an article on sentencing in North Carolina http://www.unc.edu/~arellis/elephant/elephant.pdf. One excerpt:
* In North Carolina, notable disparities show up in the differences in probation and imprisonment for certain crimes. Comparing punishments for Drug Trafficking, Drug Non-Trafficking (possession), and DWI for both whites and blacks is revealing. White and black probationers for the three crimes are nearly equal in number (more than 18,000 each), but blacks sent to prison for the same three categories are nearly four times the number of whites (4,080 to 1,41l).
Another artice states that as the severity of crime decreased the disparity of those being imprisoned with regards to race increased. http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/29456354.html.
Race plays a factor. With that being said, race is an issue but not the only one. Will students with higher levels of poverty and lack of male role models act out in school at a disproportionate rate? Yes. Will students who are behind in terms of reading become frustrated and act out? Yes. Will the solutions to the problems causing these students to act out be addressed adequately? Probably not. One cannot wave a magic wand and improve the home situation. One also cannot force al students to be “ready for school” once they enter. However, we can address the issues with a better focus. Why are students out of school for two months in the summer when they are not reading at grade level and are not going to pick up a book or receive any kind of educational stimulation? Why do we teach Language Arts that encompasses reading and writing which I feel should be taught separately? Suspensions are just an reminder that we have a larger problem in education and it will not be fixed easily.
Also a Teacher
April 6th, 2010
11:52 am
You have got to be kidding me!!! As the previous have said………walk a mile in our shoes for few days and you will see that until parents and idiots that are in command over these “all about me” groups, and get a grip on reality, I hope to continue to see more students sent out of the mainstream and into an alternative school. Hopefully, this will show the kids that just because their parents or some activist group think their actions are ok because they are a minority, the rest of society wants to be successful and wants the same for the next generation. Therefore, get them out of the way so everyone else can succeed.