Why isn’t superintendent handling school closings in DeKalb?
I had one question at the end of tonight’s nearly four hour Citizens Planning Task Force meeting on which under-capacity DeKalb schools to close: Why didn’t the DeKalb County schools superintendent make this tough decision?
More than 350 parents and children attended a meeting on possible school closings in DeKalb to show support for their schools. AJC/Hyosub Shin
Instead, a citizen task force is doing the hard, no-win job of paring down an original list of 83 schools to four for possible closing and consolidation. The task force will present its findings to the county school board in two weeks, and the board will make the actual decision of which schools to close after another round of public hearings.
Tonight, the dwindling list went from 14 to 10 with the elimination of Medlock, Briar Vista, Laurel Ridge and Avondale elementaries. The task force voted those schools off the list because the schools around them lacked the capacity to absorb the displaced students. (See the AJC story.)
Before the meeting started, someone pointed out to me that Atlanta Superintendent Beverly Hall would have made this decision on her own without a 20-member task force, six highly emotional public meetings and all this sturm and drang. Attended by 350 parents and students, tonight’s meeting included entreaties and poetry by students, impassioned speeches by parents, suggestions of racially driven decision-making by a task force members and plans for a possible second meeting this week.
Why go through such a public and protracted drama? Isn’t school leadership supposed to confront the hard choices?
The task force is making its decisions based on data supplied by the county. It is supposed to come up with candidates for closure and consolidation based on quantifiable criteria.
The main considerations of the task force are factual, including which schools are under capacity, are unlikely to regain students and are close to schools with empty seats. To discern which schools best match that criteria, the task force is using information supplied by county staff.
So why couldn’t county staff use the same data to come up with four schools for the superintendent? It would have been quicker and easier. Now, parents keep having to return to these task force meetings, waving the same “Save our school” signs and making the same pleas to spare their schools.
With a $115 million deficit, DeKalb has to close schools. Is it an abdication of duty to push this unpleasant, unpopular and and time-consuming job onto a task force operating under incredible pressure and deadlines?
I believe the public has a right to be heard in this process, but I think they ought to be talking to the school board and superintendent and not 20 citizen volunteers.
What do you think?
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125 comments Add your comment
Product of DCSS
March 31st, 2010
12:07 am
I’m not sure whether you’re referring to the superintendent who is currently under investigation or his protege. Either way, isn’t there a slight credibility issue there?
distractions
March 31st, 2010
12:10 am
It has allowed for distractions from other budgetary decisions, many if not most of which will directly impact the classrooms of all of the schools. It deflects responsibility and allows leadership to stand aside and say that the community had input. It divides communities and hinders the creation of commonalities which could turn the focus to other potential sources of revenue for review. HOWEVER, it also puts the responsibility of thinking through decisions in the hands of some community members, it encourages discussions and debates (often frustrating, frequently painful). It encourages parents to get involved in their schools, which often they have neglected. It has opened sources of data. I’m not sure what I would prefer. Reading comments from parents in other communities indicates that a closed door process is no less painful or suspect.
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March 31st, 2010
12:18 am
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me
March 31st, 2010
12:48 am
i am concerned about my husband’s pay getting cut by 6.25 percent.
JB
March 31st, 2010
12:55 am
Why can’t people get it through their thick skulls that unless they are willing to pay more taxes, services (like under-used schools) will have to be cut? And is it really a surprise that many of the schools being closed are in “predominantly African-American” neighborhoods? Isn’t that what Dekalb County primarily is made up of? Why does every single negative item have to be branded as “racist”? Isn’t it just possible that it is the reality of the times?
lee
March 31st, 2010
5:46 am
There is a great deal of mistrust in DCSS. In fact, “central office positions” under consideration for cuts includes special education teachers, social workers, psychologists, and others who have not gotten a contract yet. They were re-classified recently as central office positions….mistrust? Definitely!
drew (former teacher)
March 31st, 2010
5:58 am
“Isn’t school leadership supposed to confront the hard choices?”
The reason an administrative decision wasn’t made is exactly because it is a hard choice, and it’s a political lose/lose. And then, of course, the race card’s going to be played loud and often, as if these cuts are just another case of the “white man” sticking it to the (proud) “black man”.
Funny…taxpayers are all for “cutting waste and excess”, unless it’s THEIR waste and excess. The voters of Dekalb have spoken…if they are not willing to pony up additional school taxes, schools will be closed.
Maybe they need to look into that charter school in PA that doubles as a “club” at night. I bet that would get more parents more involved in their schools, eh?
LCD
March 31st, 2010
5:59 am
All praise the great B. Hall; she is the all powerful and knows all of what is going on in her own county. Mere mortals must tremible in her great awesomeness. She has made all of APS test scores rise (no im not kinding she really did with an eraser). Wait, maybe someone should pull back the curtain (OZ refernce here) and see that Bev is just full of ………………….. hot air?
Teach
March 31st, 2010
6:09 am
Maureen – I agree with you. There is a staff for just this type of information. I believe most if not all superintendents would use data from the staff to make a decision and present his/her recommendation to the Board for the final decision. The Board can then agree or make changes based on knowledge and their constituents.
Teach
March 31st, 2010
6:12 am
Maureen, will you question Herb Garrett, Executive Director of the Georgia School Superintendents Association, about this topic?
say what?
March 31st, 2010
7:02 am
They school system did decide (remember the initial list). Because people complained that it was unfair to certain schools, the process was opened up to have community participation, and guess what? Some of the same schools are coming up on the list created by this committee that were on the school system’s staff list.
This will be a lesson for parents also, stop using theme and magnet schools outside of your area, stop using other people’s addresses to get your kids in a “better” school. Now your local home school may be closed for a lack of students.
Meadowview, Gresham Park, and Skyhaven can go to Clifton and the $17M McNair Learning Academy. Tough choices have to be made.
Glad that people are participating in the process, which is neeeded more often.
Write Your Board Members
March 31st, 2010
7:34 am
Say What is wrong. The original list wasn’t released until the first committee meeting. The Board and the Super (Dr. Lewis at the time) are using this committee to for cover. It appears that the Task Force will end up nearly exactly where they started, but at least the public has seen the process.
Dr. Lewis has a huge personality flaw for a leader. He can’t stand to be unloved. Ninety percent of the time, he makes decisions based on the easiest path.
When this Task Force was formed, there was no one foreseeing what happened with Dr. Lewis. Again, he avoids the heavy lifting.
Dunwoody Mom
March 31st, 2010
7:58 am
I don’t have a problem with this process. It does show a willingness to be open and allow public input and this is data-driven, so other than the continuing nonsense about north vs south, I think it’s a fair process. As someone pointed out, the school system came up with the original list so that the Task Force could have a starting point.
On the other end of the spectrum you have Gwinnett County. Alvin Wilbanks just decides which schools to close and that’s that. That way of doing things makes parents unhappy as well. So, what’s the answer?
Either parents want input or they dont.
Inquisitive Parent
March 31st, 2010
8:07 am
It’s easy to say that the school system has the data and that the Superintendent and BOE should make the decision alone. However, I found data for our school that was omitted. I understand that the choices that the CPTF and BOE are making are not going to make everyone happy. However, we do have the right as citizens and parents to see the data that is being used to make these decisions.
I should also point out that I made a request for information regarding our school under the Open Records Act thirteen days ago and received NO response. The law states such requests must be answered within three days. Maybe YOU should take a closer look at YOUR school’s information as well.
Dunwoody Mom
March 31st, 2010
8:18 am
Inquisitive Parent, what data did you request? Looking at the information that the CPTF has released, it seems pretty comprehensive to me.
The Cynical White Boy
March 31st, 2010
8:26 am
And…. the AJC headline screams: “Ten that remain are in primarily poor African-American neighborhoods.”
Well, until the editorial staff added that byline, I was afraid there would be an AJC lead article that didn’t claim racism. Okay, everuthing is normal at the AJC today.
Carry on.
Allen
March 31st, 2010
8:29 am
An inquiry on relatively recent past history: DCSS has closed schools in the past, of course. In what neighborhoods were those schools? Does the fact that these 10 schools are in S. DeKalb reflect a past history of schools in other parts of the county and not S. DeKalb being closed previously, or have school closings in the past also focused on S. DeKalb? I have no idea of this history and thought some of you might know.
lyncoln
March 31st, 2010
8:45 am
It seems the smarter move to just open up the meetings like this.
If the superintendent and/or board had just come out one day with a statement of “Schools X, Y and Z will be closed and consolidated in the next school year”, the result would have been parents of all the schools swearing about wrong decisions and that school A should have been closed instead and why was their school picked? Not to mention the certain portion of people who would make statements about how ‘the government wasn’t transparent’ and ‘there was no public input’ and ‘I wish we could see what factors they weighed in making their decision’.
Using a multistep and very public forum they have the chance to show exactly what was considered to everyone. Everyone that wasn’t selected will be able to rationalize how the correct choice was made because they weren’t selected, and the minority who is selected will be able to argue, but with little support from others. Because everyone knows how the recommendations were decided people will rationalize why it was a good decision.
No matter how the decision is made someone will complain, but by letting people see every difficult step and decision made to reach the final choices you have a better chance of having less outrage and more acceptance of the final choice.
Better might have been a taskforce chaired by a member of the schoolboard or the superintendent with the same citizen volunteers, but then everyone would question how the volunteers were selected and swear that everyone on the taskforce is just a crony of the superintendent and they’re just going to rubber stamp whatever the central office tells them.
I agree that the multistep public meetings by a volunteer group are a painfully long way to reach the final decision, but this way helps the school system show how it really is trying to make the ‘best’ decision in a difficult situation.
Clarence
March 31st, 2010
8:48 am
There is no leadership in this state. Not in school districts, not in counties, and certainly not at the Capitol.
dee Bo
March 31st, 2010
8:50 am
In Replay to “i am concerned about my husband’s pay getting cut by 6.25 percent.” thats part of the problem, greed. They should cut everyone pay and save some of the needed jobs, lower the over paid people that happened with Johnny Brown came to Dekalb.
Keith
March 31st, 2010
9:06 am
I am so sick of hearing you thugs claim racism regarding this school closing thing. They are not looking at race, but whatever makes the most sense. Plus, black people don’t really go to school anyway so what is the problem? I think black parents don’t want their schools closed since they probably use the school as a babysitter. I find it so funny how it proves over and over how bad black leadership is. Look at Clayton County Schools, C-Tran, DeKalb County PD and schools, etc. Can you people do anything right besides cause crime? Amazing how you don’t see these problems in East Cobb, Alpharetta, Forsyth, etc.
JacketFan
March 31st, 2010
9:11 am
No, there are areas of DeKalb that are not predominantly black. But, that is beside the point. The real issue rests with the mean income of those folks living in South Dekalb County. This is one of the most disenfranchised areas of Atlanta. I teach down here (albeit at the college level) and I see serious issues of neglect in regard to public services in this area. It’s the same story that I’ve seen in every place I’ve lived. There is always that invisible border (a highway, railway, interstate, etc.) that delineates a divide between the haves and have-nots. Drive down Candler sometime … pawn shops, check cashing/loan offices, title loan businesses, liquor stores, etc. No community centers. No parks. No intelligent development. These communities are thoroughfares for commuters. Nothing more. And they continued to be ignored by the wealthier side of town. What the folks in the more affluent areas of the county fail to realize is that, eventually, the problems that plague these areas – crime, unemployment, drug abuse, etc – will bleed over into their neighborhoods. You cannot expect to prosper as a whole if a part is falling. The people in the northern part of the county need to help their neighbors to the south and do their part to help build up South Dekalb County – to help improve the quality of life. If they don’t, if they continue to ignore these issues, the problems won’t just be problems “down there,” but will soon be in their own backyards. Maybe then they’ll get it, but by then it may be too late.
JacketFan
March 31st, 2010
9:13 am
stuck in filter
A Different Opinion
March 31st, 2010
9:17 am
You know, Maureen, that’s a good point. And I’d like to answer that question with sort of an analogy…..the recent Healthcare Bill signed by Comrade Obama was passed by a partisan group of elected officials who ignored the collective will of the majority of the American People who did not approve of the bill passed……now, to the original question…..why didn’t the Superintendent make the decision?……in asking this question, aren’t you advocating the same thing that the elected officials did in passing the healthcare bill? The collective input of the taxpaying citizens of DeKalb County is more desirable than an Obama, Reed, Pelosi like ramrodding and I applaud the good people that stood against this type of rule.
Race Is Not ALWAYS An Issue
March 31st, 2010
9:17 am
If people in general will look at the big picture, school participation, etc., is the main reason for school closures. A lot of parents need to get off the butts if they are not working and participate at the school even as a volunteer & make sure their kids are going to school & doing their homework & school assignments. I work, but I take time off to participate for my granddaughter. I can tell a big difference in DeKalb County School System & Henry Co. School System. The parents in Henry are very good in participating at the school, I can hardly get a parking space when I get there, and that’s a good thing. I am a female that is Black. Let’s stop with the race thing in every issue & that goes for all races.
Thomas Korne
March 31st, 2010
9:17 am
THE TRUTH HURTS
If you live in an ALL WHITE neighborhood if Dekalb. Your local school is full of blacks from the south side. Your only chose is now to send your kids to private or a magnet school. If I wanted my child to attend an all black school we would move to Lithonia. If the blacks would stay in their home schools The problem would be solved less private schools and full neighborhood public schools
Cammi317
March 31st, 2010
9:25 am
Laurel Ridge has been on and off the chopping block for the last several years, but they always seem to survive. I don’t think that they have ever had more than 300-330 students and McLendon is 3 minutes away. Interesting how that works. But then again, I hear that they have heavy parent participation and support which makes all of the difference in the world.
Allen
March 31st, 2010
9:25 am
Different Opinion–
Obama, Reid, Pelosi were all elected by majority vote (which, BTW, GW Bush initially was not) and implemented a policy they clearly said they would favor while running for election. Unless you want to substitute polls of a few thousand people for the electoral process involving all registered voters, this was an expression of the majority opinion, as procedurally outlined by the Constitution.
Keith–You are a parody of yourself. In sentence 1 you denouce the race card and by sentence 3 you put on a white hood.
JacketFan
March 31st, 2010
9:26 am
Maureen, can you get me out of the filter?
A white person
March 31st, 2010
9:26 am
Kieth,
Your are rude.
Keith
March 31st, 2010
9:30 am
Why? Because I speak the TRUTH? What did I say that is not a fact? Don’t blame me for your problems.
JacketFan
March 31st, 2010
9:36 am
@Keith – I see the same issues with poor whites. It’s an issue of income level and uneducated parents. However, I see more poor black parents taking an interest in their child’s education than I do poor whites. But, go on and let your ignorance shine, shine, shine.
I Figured As Much
March 31st, 2010
9:40 am
Maureen – why do you allow Keith’s comments through when they have nothing to do with the topic?? Monitor please!
JacketFan
March 31st, 2010
9:41 am
and my earlier comment is still in the filter
Keith
March 31st, 2010
9:43 am
Ha ha ha. JacketFan are you that stupid? I thought Tech dorks were supposed to be smart? “More black parents take an interested in their child’s education then whites?” WHAT? Hmmmm. Why is it that all of the best schools in this state, and the country, are mostly white schools? Why do black schools have more crime and even have to walk through medal detectors? How pathetic. Why do you very rarely hear about issues or problems at mostly white schools? Why are there more blacks in jail then with a college degree? Yea, their parents care, good call. 30-24 by the way loser.
An advocate for public education change & choice
March 31st, 2010
9:48 am
The comments presented by distractions are dead on, in my opinion. I’m still wondering if there is a truly a 1 to 1 corallation between the State level cuts and these HUGE deficits all of sudden raining down out of the sky. This task force is being used as poltical cover for the the superintendent as well as the School Board in Dekalb. In the end they will all cry, “We only did what the citizens participating on the task force told us was the best thing to do”. When you’re $100+ in debt, what real difference is $4 million they will save from closing 4 schools really going to amount to anyway??
In closing, I will give credit to APS superintendent, Dr. Hall because she is capable of making executive descisions in situations like this dispite what you viewpoint concerns her descisions maybe. I’ll take a decisive executive leader over a wishy washy one any day.
An American
March 31st, 2010
9:50 am
From Dekalb’s school website:
Diversity:
Asian 4.40%; Black 71.30%; Hispanic 11.75%; White 10.70%;
Native American 0.25%%
Multiracial 1.60%
Student Count
49,142 elementary school students
22,647 middle school students
29,290 high school students
Given that 71% of the student population in Dekalb is black, it is more likely than not that the schools being closed would have a predominantly black population. This is not about race, but statistic probability.
An advocate for public education change & choice
March 31st, 2010
9:52 am
@Keith: There are issues of a simular stripe in East Cobb, you don’t hear about them because they are masked. As for North Fulton (aka Alpharhetta) they have successfully quarantined the schools that serve those neighborhoods off from the remainder of the system. Can’t speak to Forsyth but its interesting to see the stark difference between the school systems in the metro Atlanta area and those in other major population centers across the state.
Seth
March 31st, 2010
9:54 am
how about the hard choice of not closing schools and cutting back on the bloated administrative positions in the school system. They even pointed out that they were overstaffed by their own point system.
An American
March 31st, 2010
9:54 am
@ keith – there are not more black men in prison than college – try watching the movie What Black Men Think (though I hardly think that you will).
Attentive Parent
March 31st, 2010
9:55 am
Inquisitive Parent and anyone else interested in the Georgia Open Records Act and Public School Records-
The Georgia First Amendment Foundation has prepared a green book that you may find helpful.
Here’s a link to the pdf. http://www.gfaf.org/resources/greenBook.pdf
JacketFan
March 31st, 2010
9:56 am
@Keith – First, I was comparing poor blacks and poor whites. Your observation about the “best schools,” again, has to do with mean income, not race. Children of affluent blacks are in the same good schools that you are talking about.
Poverty is often linked to race, especially minorities. And, at first glance, the numbers suggest that minorities make up the majority of those living at or below poverty level. However, those numbers are misleading, as whites still hold a strong majority over any of the minority races overall and poor whites outnumber poor blacks nearly 3:1.. A look at welfare programs show that whites take more than 80%, on average, of government welfare.
Most poor whites live in rural areas and are spread out, while poor blacks are concentrated in urban areas. If you look at BOR statistics, the number of schools serving poor whites (mostly rural), and that are failing, far exceed the number of failing schools that serve primarily poor black communities. The metro area is not a microcosm for the statewide, or the nationwide, picture.
Those counties you are talking about happen to be among the richest counties in the state and, thanks to white flight, do serve a predominantly white, affluent population. But, again, these are outliers and not a model for the big picture.
PS – 4-2 … mutt
JacketFan
March 31st, 2010
9:58 am
Maureen, can you PLEASE release my comments from the filter?
Keith
March 31st, 2010
9:58 am
A new study from the Justice Policy Institute (http://www.justicepolicy.org), a Washington, DC-based think-tank has found that there are more black men in jail or prison than in college. At the end of 2005, 791,600 black men were behind bars and 603,032 were enrolled in colleges or universities. By contrast, in 1980 — before the prison boom — black men in college outnumbered black men behind bars by a ratio of more than 3 to 1, the study found.
Dekalb mom
March 31st, 2010
10:13 am
what needs to be done along with clossing a few schools is a complete redistricting. The current lines are completely out of whack. This is the time for the board to step up and redraw attendance lines and consolidate schools to build better communities and fix the mess we currently have. An American–thank you for data. 71% African American in Dekalb County. Can we quit talking about race now?
JacketFan
March 31st, 2010
10:14 am
Maureen, what gives? Why am I still in the filter?
Allen
March 31st, 2010
10:18 am
Seth–
Hear, hear.
The small amount–$4 million is the highest I’ve heard–to be saved with these school closings can be easily identified in the HQ budget.
Kick Keith out
March 31st, 2010
10:27 am
Can someone escort Keith out of this blog?
Ann
March 31st, 2010
10:30 am
With respect to whether or not DeKalb even needs to close schools, the chair of the task force last night made a very good point. He said that ‘every dollar we spend on an empty seat is a dollar that could go to an actual child or teacher in the system.’ He and others also encouraged everyone to use the term “consolidate” instead of close. The task force is closing buildings, but they are consolidating schools. People, there are schools with 300+ empty seats. That just isn’t reasonable, especially when these schools are adjacent to other half-full buildings. While this process has been painful to schools on the list and the task force members, it is the only way to have this completely transparent. If this decision had been made behind closed doors, the board or central office would have been accused of not soliciting enough parent input. Parent input is always going to be painful. Once the task force has its recommendation, at least those being consolidated will know, 100%, why their schools were chosen.
Ann
March 31st, 2010
10:35 am
At last night’s task force meeting, the chair of the task force made a very good point. He said that ‘every dollar we spend on an empty seat is a dollar that could go to an actual child or teacher in the system.’ He and others also encouraged everyone to use the term “consolidate” instead of close. The task force is closing buildings, but they are consolidating schools. People, there are schools with 300+ empty seats. That just isn’t reasonable, especially when these schools are adjacent to other half-full buildings. While this process has been painful to schools on the list and the task force members, it is the only way to have this completely transparent. If this decision had been made behind closed doors, the board or central office would have been accused of not soliciting enough parent input. Parent input is always going to be painful. Once the task force has its recommendation, at least those being consolidated will know, 100%, why their schools were chosen.
JacketFan
March 31st, 2010
10:36 am
No, Keith shouldn’t be kicked out. You can’t censor someone because you don’t agree with what they are saying. That’s no more “right” than the stuff he’s going on about.
Ole Guy
March 31st, 2010
10:38 am
Public discourse is the only way to arrive at acceptable results. Whether it’s because county leaders do not wish to become embroiled in controversial issues, or simply a return to “government of, by, and for the people” is up for conjecture. Either way, it’s great that concerned citizens step up to the plate and take command of their collective destinies. While it remains somewhat disheartening to see racial interjections throughout the dynamics of discussion, the “majority rule” concept prevails. Race notwithstanding, the folks who don’t get their way, right, wrong, or indifferent, simply will have to adjust. I believe that’s what a society is all about.
Town Crier
March 31st, 2010
10:41 am
If anyone has an opinion we don’t like let’s just kick them off the blog….Maybe mommie can make those evil people stop just like she did when you were living at home until you were 25.
Town Crier
March 31st, 2010
10:43 am
Please make that bad ol Keith stop……it just isn’t “fair” that he writes something I don’t like. Mommy make him stop…….
Private School Parent
March 31st, 2010
10:45 am
We don’t have these issues in the private school my children attend.
sees the future
March 31st, 2010
10:50 am
How this become a fight about race? How sad. Its always the same thing with you people.
I moved here from out of state four years ago and I am constantly amazed how everything here turns every community issue into a nasty race fight.
I have never seen this anywhere else–even other places in the south. What is it about the people here? It gets so old and tiresome and it makes EVERYONE LOOK BAD–not just whites and not just blacks.
You fight and squabble and spout statistics at each other while your city and towns turn to garbage and everyone who hopes for something better and can find a way out leaves as fast as they can. But you don’t notice, because you’re so busy fighting about the same old thing.
I will say I think the AJC does its part to keep the fight going. I guess it sells papers, but the cost to the community is devastating.
I wish I had never moved here. I wish I could sell my house and leave. I wish my children didn’t have to live in a place where people are so openly hostile toward others who have THE SAME PROBLEMS but different skin. You need to stop this and learn to get along to SOLVE YOUR PROBLEMS TOGETHER.
Please, where do you see this going? Surely no place good.
JacketFan
March 31st, 2010
10:51 am
I swear, it’s as though we’ve gone back to 1950. This is all just incredibly sad.
Vince
March 31st, 2010
10:51 am
Cammi317
Laurel Ridge has 408 students, has trailers, and is built to accomodate students in wheelchairs. To move the OI program from there would result in huge costs to the school system. They would essentially have to rebuild restroom facilities, hire more nurses, and level out any hills, ramps or stairs in a receiving school.
Allen
Past closed Dekalb Schools (that I can remember)
Skyland Elementary – north Dekalb
Northwoods Elementary -north Dekalb
Dunwoody Elementary – north Dekalb
Shallowford Elementary – north Dekalb
Sexton Woods – north Dekalb
Nancy Creek – north Dekalb
Briarcliff High School – north Dekalb
Heritage School – central Dekalb
Tucker Elementary – central Dekalb
Rehoboth Elementary – central Dekalb
Forrest Hills Elementary – central Dekalb
Terry Mill Elementary – south Dekalb
Tilson Elementary – south Dekalb
nita
March 31st, 2010
10:59 am
As a black mother of school aged children, i agree with the earlier post, if most of dekalbs students are black, they will suffer the biggest loss in school closings. simple math. I went to school when there were 29-30 kids in the classroom, if the schools would impose corporal punishment and control of classrooms back to teachers, we can again work with larger classrooms. it ought to be illegal to expect someone else to watch your child 7hours a day and not be able to discipline them. They should pass a law that charge parents for unruly children. parents whose children come to school and act up, should pay a fine. if you can’t teach your child common respect for teachers and authority, then you should be prepared to pay heavily with your hard earned cash. It time for parents to get control over their children.
Whatever, Dude... Whatever
March 31st, 2010
11:26 am
@Town Crier: It would be different if Keith started his comments with FACTS and staying on topic. It’s fine to have a dissenting argument, but at least stay on topic, be factual, and don’t be insulting or sensational for the sole purpose of riling people up. That’s just stupid and a waste of space.
Whatever, Dude... Whatever
March 31st, 2010
11:28 am
Then why, prey tell, are you commenting, Private School Parent?? If you don’t have a child in DCSS, this has no bearing on you, right?
Whatever, Dude... Whatever
March 31st, 2010
11:31 am
@Sees the Future: Read up a little on the AJC’s history of fanning the flames of racial discord. They practically started the race riots of Atlanta by publishing stories about how black men were only out to rape their white women, who were unspoiled, pure, and the absolute pinnacles of virtue.
After you read about that, stories like this won’t surprise you anymore.
EdHawk
March 31st, 2010
11:46 am
Why do you think they passed this off? If you stayed for the meeting itself you would have seen task force member George Maddox ranting at the lack of closing of a “damn school in the north”. The Board wants nothing to do with the cries of racism and favoritism that will come from making the inevitable choice to close the schools that are woefully under populated, primarily located in south Dekalb. IF this is the course we have to take to close this budget gap then a school that is at half capacity should be closed.
What is being overlooked is the fact that school closing should have never happened. Decades of misuse of tax dollars, of increasing spending to match increased tax revenues…”use it or lose it” budget mentality put us in this situation. Now neighborhoods are pitted against each other and it becomes a north vs. south / rich vs. poor / black vs. white issue.
You wonder why the Board of Education wants a “Citizen Group” running interference? Do you really??
Maureen Downey
March 31st, 2010
11:53 am
Edhawk, I stayed for the meeting and heard Mr. Maddox’s comments. I don’t think any politicians can resist playing to an audience, in this case some parents willing to believe that there is something more at play here than numbers.
I understand that the board might want the political cover of a citizen task force, but board members will still be held responsible. I think the task force has a lot of smart people on it and will come up with a list that is based on the data.
Maureen
Dunwoody Mom
March 31st, 2010
11:57 am
Mr. Maddox was appointed by Sarah Copelin-Wood. I think his reaction is self-explanatory.
Maureen Downey
March 31st, 2010
11:59 am
Whatever, Don’t mind legit criticisms of the paper but the race riot you are referring to occurred in 1906. I have to tell you that race remains an issue in so many events in Georgia. The media doesn’t have to interject race; it’s always there. In fact, I think the media sometimes downplays the role of race in many political issues.
Maureen
LSH
March 31st, 2010
12:07 pm
The problem is that some parents mistake “parent input” for “parent decision making”.
Wasted space
March 31st, 2010
12:08 pm
I can’t believe this article was even printed. Do you NOT know that the supe is under investigation and on leave due to that investigation?
EdHawk
March 31st, 2010
12:14 pm
Marueen, I didn’t know the “Citizen’s” task force was comprised of politicians? Wasn’t the point to take politics out of the equation??
A Different Opinion
March 31st, 2010
12:27 pm
sees the future
March 31st, 2010
10:50 am
sees the future – It’s always about race.
Okay, one more time……no schools have to close if only one thing is done……everybody listening?…..Get Rid Of The School Busing (Transportation) System Costs” or as an alternative, if your child wants or needs to ride the school bus to and from school, institute a fee system to cover the cost of providing that transportation…..easy, easy, easy
Maureen Downey
March 31st, 2010
12:28 pm
Wasted space, Yes, I do know. But Lewis could have done this before he took leave. Or the new super could have stepped in. Or the board itself.
Teacher on Duty Free Lunch
March 31st, 2010
12:29 pm
I agree with the decision to have a community task force. At least one school on the list (Midway) seemed to have been targeted by the administration for closure, despite the fact that it did not even meet the threshold for number of students. In the end, the Board will do what it pleases, but at least this committee was meant to bring some sense of fairness to this process. Schools will close, but we must be fair and equitable about how they are chosen.
Ernest
March 31st, 2010
12:34 pm
Good list by Vince above. Leslie J. Steele also closed in South DeKalb however that is the site for McNair Academy. FWIW, three small schools (Tilson, Terry Mill, and LJ Steele) were combined into one site. That may be a model the school system may consider throughout the district for reducing the inventory of small schools.
Ernest
March 31st, 2010
12:43 pm
EdHawk, George Maddox is actually a ‘former’ state representative.
Vince
March 31st, 2010
1:02 pm
Ernest…I thought about adding L.J.Steele to the list, but it really just got transformed into the McNair superschool.
Dunwoody Mom
March 31st, 2010
1:07 pm
I have a question: Why are the Magnet schools “off the table”?
Maureen Downey
March 31st, 2010
1:12 pm
Dunwoody Mom, I am not clear on that and think there is more to that issue. The magnets are costing the county more per pupil to operate so there ought to be a discussion now given the budget crisis.
One figure quoted to me is that the DeKalb School of the Arts is costing $3,000 more per student. Is that reasonable now?
Maureen
Allen
March 31st, 2010
1:14 pm
Thanks for the list Vince. If you caught everything, in recent years there were 6 elementaries closed in N. DeKalb, 4 in Central and 2 in South. Currently we’re looking at closing 4 in South. Those numbers make this look like roughly evening things out when looked at over a few years as opoosed to looking at just this year but I could be wrong . . .
Cletus Dooley Earnhardt SR.
March 31st, 2010
1:17 pm
Keith for a smmartt guyy your’ee grammmar is almostt as bad as myne andd i dropped out of the fiftth grayde to marrry my sisster.
GO UGA!
Concerned S.Dekalb Parent
March 31st, 2010
1:17 pm
Private School Parent,
I’m glad you’re not having issues at your child’s private school. You obviously made the right decision and chose to send your child to the best school your money could buy. This may be a little off topic but many parents don’t have the option to choose their child’s school because they’re in a different social economic class as yourself. Instead they’re told to go to run down neighborhood schools and it doesn’t matter if the children are learning anything or not. Do our children deserve that? The current educational system is a backwards monopoly that needs a reform of its own. All parents should have the right to choose where their children go to school, regardless of their income or where they live especially when we’re all paying taxes. Right now DCSS is paying over $9,500 of tax payer money per student, and yet the district as a whole has not made AYP in years! There’s a problem here, especially in how the money is allocated in North DeKalb versus South DeKalb schools. Every child deserves the right to have a solid education, and this will happen only when parents are empowered to choose their child’s school regardless of their economic status. Schools should be required to compete for our tax dollar and not take it for granted as they currently do. Educational reform is in order and we need it right now.
Nick
March 31st, 2010
1:21 pm
Cammi317 – re: Laurel Ridge – If you look at the numbers and maps posted on the DCSS website (under Citizens Planning TF), Laurel Ridge’s enrollment has been steadily climbing for the past 4 years, and is now at 408 students for the current school year. McLendon ES has no vacancies – it is already at capacity. If Laurel Ridge were to be closed, there are only 200 vacancies in nearby schools, leaving 200 students with no obvious school to relocate to. In fact, the same holds true for Briar Lake and Medlock as well, if either of those schools close, there is not existing capacity for 150-200 of the affected students.
While I commiserate with the families whose schools are still on the list, the fact of the matter is that those schools all have substantial vacancies, and are surrounded by other schools with many vacancies. Sky Haven, Knollwood and Peachcrest all have over 300 vacancies each, and are barely 50% full. Knollwood and Peachcrest are directly adjacent to each other. If Knollwood were to close, Peachcrest has the capacity to absorb those students and still have vacancies left over. Vice versa, Knollwood could absorb over 90% of Peachcrest’s students by itself. Meadowview, with 340 students and 122 vacancies, is directly adjacent to Gresham Park and Clifton, which have approximately 170 vacancies each.
If you look at the map of all the elementary schools in the county, the area containing the last 10 schools on the list has the highest density of elementary schools in the county. There are just more schools per square mile in that area then anywhere else in the county, and the vacancy rates in those schools reflect that fact.
Really Sick&Tired
March 31st, 2010
1:23 pm
“Why didn’t the DeKalb County schools superintendent make this tough decision?”
Because Crawford Lewis and Ramona Tyson are cowards.
Distribution of Money
March 31st, 2010
1:43 pm
Exactly how is more money spent in North Dekalb? The money follows the students. Have you seen the condition of Chamblee High School, Lakeside, or Cross Keys? Also, private school parents (I am not) pay the same taxes as public school parents and then pay their tuition. They have the same rights in these discussions as anyone else.
Should all children have the same opportunities? Absolutely. Can all children accomplish the same things probably not, But they deserve the resources to reach the top of their ability.
Please, I would really like to know how more money is allocated to North Dekalb.
dekalbmom
March 31st, 2010
1:53 pm
Dunwoody Mom & Maureen, The magnet program is off the table, as well as taking the pre-k program out of all but Title 1 schools, because the county is run by the parents who squeak the loudest. And in this case it is the magnet program and potential pre-k parents who did. I don’t think it’s fair that the group of kids that could handle having more in the classroom are the ones that don’t. My 10 year old who is dyslexic is in a classroom of 28 kids….15 of whom need extra help. How is he going to get what he needs? he gets it at home from me, that’s how.
Ann
March 31st, 2010
1:55 pm
Private school parents, glad everything is perfect in your world. The last expensive private school my kids attended had a board of stingy crooks who couldn’t be unseated. If you’re going to get on here, be productive. It’s like the homeschool parents. Don’t get on here and tell those of us who choose to support our neighborhood schools that you’re so much better. Offer suggestions or shut up.
Dunwoody Mom
March 31st, 2010
1:58 pm
Again, sadly, it is our children that need the most help that are getting squeezed. I cannot speak for Wadsworth, but I know that the majority of students at Kittredge do not need a magnet school to be successful. It’s just a status symbol for their parents.
Ann
March 31st, 2010
1:58 pm
All magnet schools are proposed to lose 20 points across all of them. This will result in some changes but not elimination of the magnet programs.
EdHawk
March 31st, 2010
1:59 pm
Ernest, I take comfort in the use of the word “former”. In this day and age that attitude has no place in politics. It clouds the issues and undermines real racism that exists in the world.
Vince
March 31st, 2010
2:33 pm
Concerned S. Dekalb Parent…
You are totally wrong about the money in the south end schools versus the north end schools. Most of the south end schools are Title I schools whereas many, if not most, in the north are not.
On average, a Title I school receives over 150,000 dollars more a year than a non-Title I school. They also receive extra personnel and extra programs.
Forget the myth.
anon
March 31st, 2010
2:58 pm
@Dunwoody Mom: I’m not a Kittredge parent; but I am curious about how you “know that the majority of students at Kittredge do not need a magnet school to be successful.” Have you personally worked with the majority of these students? Did you work with these students in their prior context and somehow assess what they were achieving in their prior setting against what they could have and/or are at Kittredge? Just curious on how you “know” this information and if you are an expert on assessment for HA?
UGA Teacher
March 31st, 2010
3:27 pm
DeKalb has always let the parents run the county- why would they do anything different now?
Ernest
March 31st, 2010
4:31 pm
Dunwoody Mom, Magnet schools were taken off the table for Phase 1, consolidations during FY2011 school year. The rationale was that more time would be needed for planning along with additional information needed to make a decision on those schools at this time. Given the already tight timeline, it was decided to defer those until later. They could be on the list for consideration during Phase 2, consolidations during FY2012.
Ernest
March 31st, 2010
4:43 pm
Vince, great answer again @ 2:33. That is one thing most citizens don’t understand. The general operation budget is comprised of local, state, and federal taxes, for the most part. Costs per student is a simple equation, dividing this number by the number of students. Title 1 dollars are NOT factored into this amount. When you consider the Title 1 dollars along with monies received from the Free and Reduced lunch program, a school in a lower SES area may actually have more school funding that one in a higher SES area.
What some point to are the disparities in PTA funds, which are private donations. IMO, some look at this and assume these are supplements provided by the school district.
Dunwoody Mom
March 31st, 2010
6:03 pm
Because anon, if these children are at Kittredge, they are already successful or else they would not get into Kittredge – or so we are told. Also, the majority of the students at Kittredge came from successful schools. Thanks for the info Ernest. It appears the Magnets are here to stay, but consolidating them with other schools makes sense. I would also like to see Avondale/DSA under one administration. It makes no sense in my view to have 2 separate administration for 2 small student bodies.
It's Me
March 31st, 2010
6:29 pm
Understand that in DeKalb Schools you have (previously and currently) had upper administration that are afraid to make really TOUGH choices! Every time a new tough choice has to be made a new “committee” is formed to deal with it. More often than not leaders have to make very tough choices in any organization. You address the challenge, review your data, make the choice, stand by that decission, listen to arguments and complaints and move forward. You are always going to have a group of people upset over any decission made. Leaders in DeKalb do not want to own their choices so they would rather pawn the difficult task on to someone else to make. I agree that the public should be notified and asked for input through the proper channels. What I do not understand is how the current committee is going to make a truly educated choice on this matter when so many factors play into making it.
Ernest
March 31st, 2010
7:13 pm
I would also like to see Avondale/DSA under one administration. It makes no sense in my view to have 2 separate administration for 2 small student bodies.
Keep that thought, Dunwoody Mom…..
Private School Parent
March 31st, 2010
8:28 pm
I comment on this blog because I pay for your kids to go to school as well as my own. Too bad if you do not like it but don’t bite the hand that feeds you. Rather take an interest in your child’s education and require your “mate” play an active role in raising their offspring.
Sammy Davis Jr.
March 31st, 2010
8:34 pm
Why didn’t he make the cuts?
Because he’s the Candy @ss man!
Who can fill a gas tank
Many times a day?
Then have the nerve to complain about his pay
The Candy @ss; the Candy @ss man.
smoking herb
March 31st, 2010
8:36 pm
Will Herb step up and answer the question? Will Maureen ask it? Stay tuned for the next episode of As The Spin Turns.
It's Me
March 31st, 2010
9:47 pm
It would make perfect sense to have one DSA grades K-12. It also makes sense to ELIMINATE Montessori programs since the entire group of students is less than 350. That means $ taken from other “regular” students to accommodate private school with public $. Even if it were 500 students what does that mean for the other 98,000+? Much of what would make sense to do in DeKalb will not be done due to lack of common sense. DeKalb is broken…badly broken! I cannot believe SACS has not stepped in.
Private School Guy
March 31st, 2010
10:16 pm
During the meeting it was pointed out that all the closings are on the south side. This is reducing geography to a simple north south understanding. In reality all the closing are in the south western portion of DeKalb and all (with the exception of Atherton) are inside I 285. If one looks at the history of the area over the last 50 years these neighborhoods were once filled with suburban families with children. While flight changed the area’s racial make up. But in the past 15 years families have been moving out of these areas to SE DeKalb, Henry, Clayton and Rockdale where homes are larger and property is cheaper and the schools are newer. This is the real reason these schools may need to close.
A Mom
March 31st, 2010
10:24 pm
@It’s Me: The reason that Montessori shows up as costing more per student is that DCSS accounts for Montessori teachers as if they were part of the program overhead, not a sunk cost that would have to be incurred to teach the students regardless of the teaching method. When you recategorize the costs that are not particular to Montessori, the long life of the teaching materials (no textbooks, no workbooks, etc.) balances out the cost of the paras. In other words, paras don’t make much money, and traditional classrooms consume a lot of paper every year that Montessori classes don’t need to re-buy.
Perhaps for environmental reasons every school in the county ought to add a Montessori option . . .
. . . I agree that DCSS is broken, but Montessori is not evidence of that. Try eSIS or America’s Choice or take-home cars or crumbling buildings instead.
B. Killebrew
March 31st, 2010
11:11 pm
If one looks at the schools on the closing lists, and then look at the map and the capacity of area schools, it’s fairly easy/logical to see what should happen:
1. Gresham Park and Meadowview Elementary schools should close. The districts and students will be absorbed by Sky Haven, Clifton, Flat Shoals, and Kelley Lake (even though I like the historical significance/neighborhood ties of Gresham Park…maybe one of the other schools could close in its place).
2. Knollwood and Peachcrest Elementary schools should combine. One of the schools will be closed.
3. Atherton Elementary should close (this will be the toughest to decide). Its district and students will be absorbed by Snapfinger, Glen Haven, Rowland, and Canby Lane.
4. Dekalb County Schools will then need to redistrict schools zones for the entire county.
5. Dekalb County Schools should then work on making “real magnets”–attracting students to certain schools based on a scholarly interest, curriculum, and/or skill. Not magnets based on giftedness/high-achievement (every school should be able to meet the needs of these students!), nor magnets set up to be separate schools/academies (for example, Avondale/DSA should be combined and become like the successful performing arts program/model at Pebblebrook High in Cobb County).
6. Do away with theme schools and use those schools as real district/neighborhood schools to relieve any overcrowding (or just close to further cut down costs.)
B. Killebrew
March 31st, 2010
11:12 pm
Please remove my post (from around 11:12pm) from the filter!
Ann
March 31st, 2010
11:58 pm
@ Private Schoool Mom, happy to have you on the blog, but private school is not a solution for everyone. So, when you are offering suggestions on how you are spending your money on our children, don’t suggest that we send them to private school – that’s all. And your blog name is enough for us to know what you prefer – no need to add a post stating it. And before you get too comfortable about paying for OUR children’s education, remember that WE are the ones who are staying IN the schools, trying to make them better, and keeping your property values up. This is a two-way street. We are not just “taking” your money for “our” kids. “We” are working in the schools that you abandoned to keep “your” property values up.
B. Killebrew
April 1st, 2010
12:09 am
I like your post above, Ann.
Private School Parent
April 1st, 2010
12:10 am
Ann,
So let me offer you an analogy based upon your logic in your blog. So if a restaurant serves you a substandard meal do you continue to return to that establishment and patronize the owner so that you can help “improve” it? And by keeping your kids in the “schools” you are preserving my property value. That is laughable……I suppose those deadbeats in Clayton County who kept their precious little Einstein’s in the school system also kept their property values up?
Private School Parent
April 1st, 2010
12:22 am
Ann,
So let me offer you an analogy based upon your logic in your blog. So if a restaurant serves you a substandard meal you continue to return to that establishment and patronize the owner so that you can help “improve” it? And by keeping your kids in the “schools” you are preserving my property value. That is laughable……I suppose those deadbeats in Clayton County who kept their precious little Einstein’s in the school system also kept their property values up?
Truth Hurts
April 1st, 2010
12:34 am
Looks like I may have hurt some feelings posting as Private School Parent and the thought police at AJC could not have that……
Ann,
So let me offer you an analogy based upon your logic in the blog above. If an automobile maker kept putting out bad cars would you still purchase that brand so you could patronize the company and help to “improve” it by spending hard earned money on something inferior? And by keeping your kids in school “you are preserving my property values”? That is quite hilarious. I suppose all the precious little Einstein’s in CCPC also preserved their property values. To the contrary, the opposite of what you opined is true. Deal with it.
B. Killebrew
April 1st, 2010
1:43 am
Truth Hurts/Private School Parent…
No–you are wrong.
Just the Fact
April 1st, 2010
6:33 am
White boys can’t jump, black folks cry race when they are not capable of making a decision or don’t get their way.
Ann
April 1st, 2010
7:52 am
Private school parent, I will put my well-adjusted, smart, and exposed-to-reality children up against your sheltered, entitled kids anytime. The point is that you have no purpose on this board if all you’re going to do is tell people that the solution to their problems is your precious private school. By your logic, anything that isn’t perfect isn’t worth having or trying to fix. When your Escalade breaks, I bet you just go buy a brand new one instead of taking it to a repair shop? When your manicured nails crack, do you rip off your finger and start fresh? When your kids misbehave, do you throw them out and get new ones? Oh, wait, your kids go to private school, so they’re perfect.
Dunwoody Mom
April 1st, 2010
8:22 am
Ann – absolutely love your response. You would not believe the stories my kids hear from their private school friends. Makes me glad I am saving my money so that my kids can attend the college of their choice and not have to stay in state for Hope.
Vince
April 1st, 2010
11:50 am
Ann for President in 2012!
response
April 1st, 2010
12:25 pm
Dunwoody Mom: You state that Kittredge only accepts kids who are already performing…in other words, I’m assuming you are referencing the test scores. You also state that they come from performing schools….where are you getting your data? How do you KNOW they are coming from successful schools (I’d like to see what the base of that population is)? And further, do you know that they were being CHALLENGED in those schools, or is this simply not part of the equation? Just curious. Research indicates that gifted kids drop out because they are bored. Parents deal with their kids “checking out” in classroom performance when teachers have to re-teach concepts 42 times in a 32 minute period. (ps. I’m not talking about my own kids here).
Private/Public Family
April 1st, 2010
12:43 pm
I have one child in private and one in public. You all are communicating in a very offensive manner. Comparing good private schools to any public school is like horses and giraffes. Both have advantages that the other cannot offer. But the financial resources available at quality private schools make side by side comparisons impossible.
Momof2
April 1st, 2010
7:10 pm
Well, location of schools aside, and bypassing the issues of race and private/public preference, if the Superintendent and his deputy are not performing – can we see about getting one or both salaries off the books? I agree there is an big leadership gap – we are not getting our money’s worth.
Inquisitve Parent
April 1st, 2010
9:20 pm
My open records request involved where the enrollment capacity numbers came from….I believe that seats in trailers were included….NO child should be in a classroom in a trailer. These are SCHOOLS, not trailer parks!
Inquisitve Parent
April 1st, 2010
9:27 pm
Ann, You are right on target! You took the words right out of my mouth!
It's Me
April 1st, 2010
9:50 pm
@ A Mom: Montessori test scores do not show the students score any better than students in a traditional classroom. Again, eliminate the program. It is a private school program in a public school! I agree 100% that eSis and America’s Choice are also monetary drains on a system that is struggling with serious budget issues. Much fat to be cut and the items listed here are some that need to go. DeKalb as well as other systems throughout the state are going to have to reduce to basics in education until the state’s economy improves. There is no money! The state has cut education to the bone. Many things are going to have to change and many programs are going to have to go. People are going to have their feeling hurt. Yes, these are all tough choices!
Another cop out.
April 1st, 2010
10:47 pm
No school closings…..I guess yet again a niche group of parents get what they want. Fire the central office. Close some schools, and gut the magnet programs so all kids in our district can have reasonably sized classes and resources.
What a pity. Private school is sounding better and better.
Ernest
April 1st, 2010
11:01 pm
Actually the recommendation did not identify specific schools but sent the list of 10 to the district for consideration. There were several task force members that had philosophical problems with the process, despite the openness of the proceedings. I believe it ultimately came down to their desire to see the Board make the tough decisions.
Angela
April 1st, 2010
11:03 pm
Very Ramona Tysonesque! Get community members to take the brunt of the blame.
Better School Parent
April 2nd, 2010
8:36 pm
Care to guess the stories our kids hear about the public school kids, Dunwoody Mom? Of course most of these stories are about the abject failure of “parents” to teach their kids any morals.
Serendipity
April 2nd, 2010
11:41 pm
The question I have to ask and was Not asked by the Task Force or by the School Board when compiling data is “what is the quality of education in each of those schools?” The decision making process never once asked how successful educationally any of those schools are. They talked about enrollment, they talked about distance, age of the building, open seats….
When do we insist that they talk about the Quality of the existing programs?
The numbers and data aren’t as easy to find or as easy to ‘quantify’ but this also isn’t impossible. Simply put our leadership keeps making the same types of decisions based on the same types of data and we continue with a downward trend in the quality of our schools. Definitive changes need to be made! Our children are not numbers, they are our future. Did one Task Force Member or one Board Member ever talk about physically visiting any of the schools on the list?