Need-based HOPE legislation flies through Senate
The state Senate overwhelmingly passed Senate Bill 496, which adds a need-based component to the HOPE Scholarship. The bill was approved in a 45 to 4 vote.
The bill now moves to the House for consideration. I have to admit passage surprised me as the concept seems to have little public support. I also thought the Senate would figure there were too many major issues this year to tackle something as controversial as awarding HOPE Scholarships, albeit smaller ones of $600 or $700, based on need rather than academic achievement. Even UGA President Michael Adams said that he didn’t endorse the idea because he felt it would reduce overall support for the HOPE program.
Here is the release from the Georgia state Senate:
SB 496, The HOPE College Opportunity Grant, passed the Senate today with an overwhelming majority. Sen. Jack Hill (R-Reidsville), the bill’s author, went to bat for need based students throughout Georgia by proposing the grant which will be based solely on need.
“This is a ‘stay in college grant’ that probably only amounts to a few hundred dollars, but will certainly help the neediest students in Georgia. These grants will aid students who require our help most as the economy continues to falter and tuition begins to rise,” said Hill. “By giving these students a needed hand, we are cementing a brighter future of our state’s education system and economy; what we put in today is indeed an investment in the future of our state.”
“During this economic downturn, we want to proactively look for ways to support our college students who struggle the most to afford their tuition. Education provides the foundation that is necessary to develop and maintain a 21st century workforce in Georgia. And we are committed to growing and expanding our workforce in Georgia so that we will lead in job growth and workforce readiness. Senate Appropriations Committee Chairman Jack Hill has led on this issue and I want to thank him for his hard work and efforts to provide assistance to our neediest college students,” said Lt. Governor Casey Cagle.
In order to be eligible for the HOPE College Opportunity Grant, students must also be eligible for a Pell Grant during any term they apply for the grant. They must be full-time students attending eligible public postsecondary institution and meet enrollment standards including maintaining satisfactory academic progress.
The bill also notes certain residency requirements for grant applicants. The student must be classified as legal Georgia residents under the institution’s in-state tuition policy. Any student who is a Georgia resident at the time of their high school graduation must have met the residency requirements for at least 12 months prior to the first day of classes for which the HOPE grant is awarded. For any non-Georgia resident, this term is extended to 24 months. Additionally, dependent children of military personnel stationed in Georgia, who graduate from a Georgia high school or home study program, will be deemed Georgia residents.
The HOPE College Opportunity Grant is available until the student has earned a baccalaureate degree or until the student has attempted 190 quarter hours or 127 semester hours. The grant may be applied to any portion of the student’s cost of attendance.
Hill noted that 30 million in lottery funds are available to be set aside for this beneficial scholarship fund. Funding for the grant is based on appropriations, as well as how a specifics student’s need might change over their higher education career.
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107 comments Add your comment
Gail
March 28th, 2010
2:42 pm
The HOPE scholarship fund needs to negotiate tuition rates with each college, like insurance companies do with doctors. If they want all the students that the HOPE is
“providing” to them, then the state colleges and universities need to make concessions. They need to realize that by increasing tuition and fees by 25% each year even though inflation is low, the lottery funds are on the brink of drying up. If HOPE has to reduce amounts paid for students, some of the incentive to stay in state goes away. More students will start going out of state like they did prior to the HOPE scholarship.
More HOPE
March 28th, 2010
2:48 pm
FYI –
Remedial classes may be needed for a number of reasons, many of which may not be the student’s fault. Take for example, the foster kid who was moved from school to school far too many times to count. Many end up in group homes located in school systems such as Dekalb that pass the student with a 70, regardless. The child may not be focused on achievement because he/she may be more concerned with where their caseworker might move them next. Have some compassion!
Northview (Ex)Teacher
March 28th, 2010
2:51 pm
I firmly support income limits on HOPE. It’s always struck me as somewhat dissembling of all my beloved neighbors in Johns Creek to rail on and on about taxes and “socialism” (as if they knew anything about socialism) and then to line up at the public trough to take public funds to send their brood off to college.
These folks can pay for their kids’ education, but prefer not to. It seems that they are socialists, doesn’t it? Socialism is OK with them as long as it benefits the wealthy, so I suppose that’s a new twist: socialism for the wealthy, paid for by the lower classes.
Why don’t all you socialists out in Johns Creek pay for your own kids to go to college?
@ HOPE is BS
March 28th, 2010
2:54 pm
“The people who truly benefit from HOPE and Pell Grants are minorities.”
@ Hope is BS / 2:34 ,
You are an idiot! Hope does not discriminate based upon race or minority status. Your “academically superior” racist brat has the same opportunity for HOPE as any other students.
Kira Willis
March 28th, 2010
2:59 pm
In 1997-98 64% of students lost their HOPE scholarship because they didn’t make the grades. Make it a reimbursement program: you make the grade, we pay you back for your investment.
64%…that’s a lot of money paid to students who messed around for a semester.
blackbird13
March 28th, 2010
3:04 pm
I don’t have a problem with HOPE becoming need-based, as long the gpa requirements remain in place too. Those who don’t qualify straight out of high school are not shut out of HOPE now: they can receive the scholarship after completing thirty credit hours of college classes. This was what I did, but I had several years between high school and college. When I finally started, I was there for an education, not to party, to avoid work, or because my parents insisted. Kids who had mediocre grades in high school who go straight to college are almost certainly going to fail at college level work.
So, I say if they didn’t earn it in high school, let them prove they deserve it in college by maintaining a 3.0 in their first 30 hours. Too many kids are in college who should be looking at other alternatives.
catlady
March 28th, 2010
3:17 pm
Some of these comments are dumb as dirt.
HOLY MOLLY
March 28th, 2010
3:23 pm
blackbird13 agree with you 100%!!!!!!!!
Tighten up HOPE
March 28th, 2010
3:23 pm
@ MoreHOPE. I’m sure there are students who take remedial classes because of extreme family circumstances. There is an appeals process for HOPE and that’s exactly why it’s there. I KNOW there are plenty who didn’t do the work in high school and I KNOW plenty of high school teachers who are pressured (or are under a “nothing gets a grade under 50″ system) to get kids on HOPE. As Kira said, a LOT of kids lose HOPE the first year; how else do you explain that?
HOLY MOLLY
March 28th, 2010
3:32 pm
I would like to see if grades are given in some schools in Ga. so the students will qualify for hope. I have heard from some teachers that this is done so the student will get their entitlement to free education.Also why is the rate of losing hope after 30 hours is over 50%.
Princess
March 28th, 2010
4:04 pm
I’m a child of a single parent who has always worked two jobs so that we didn’t need to take public assistance. I’m in my 3rd year at a major college and lost HOPE by 0.03 point due to working full-time as well as being a full-time student. I suspect this is the same case with other students from low income families. We don’t have the privilege of being able to just go to school and not have to worry about working. I’m glad that they approved this. It sounds like majority of the people commenting on here wouldn’t even be able to hold a 1.0 gpa in college. Stop being selfish. It doesn’t say this is going to affect regular HOPE.
@ Princess
March 28th, 2010
4:09 pm
Good job! I hope you get your HOPE back!
V for Vendetta
March 28th, 2010
4:12 pm
Northview[Ex]Teacher,
Well, yes and no. Though the HOPE scholarship runs through the government, it was initially set up as a benefit for those who maintained the grades. Getting something for free from the government does not automatically make one a socialist; however, if they were to place an income cap on HOPE, say, 150k, and THEN the John’s Creek crowd complained . . . well that would be a bit socialist and hypocritical, now wouldn’t it?
But that’s not exactly fair, either . . . punishing people for having money is a common socialist goal. I’m not so sure you can have a scholarship based on student performance and deny it to students simply because their parents make too much money. Having a successful job should not be a negative. (It should also not give the government carte blanche to raid you in the form of higher taxes, but we’ve let that go on for years.) Such is the problem when the government gets involved in anything.
The easiest solution would be to repeal some of the taxes the government takes to fund education and make it all private. Let people spend their money where they want. While the HOPE scholarship has provided Georgia education with millions and millions of dollars, I do not think it has been used as efficiently as it could have been. It is NOT a limitless coffer to be plundered as the state sees fit. It was set up to benefit Georgia students. We can’t argue that it has not benefited Georgia students, but we CAN argue that it should have benefited them more than it has.
HOLY MOLLY
March 28th, 2010
4:29 pm
@princess — I guess you have not heard that Hope is running out of money. In 2012 the hope fund will have to cut book fee from 150.00 per semester to 75.00. In 2013 no book fee at all! Estimates are that in 2014, Hope tuition funds will have to be cut 25% to each student. Plus the universities are going to increase tuition this year.Another HIT on Hope funds.Every time some one takes out of Hope for another program — the less it has for the current obligations.
disgusted
March 28th, 2010
4:38 pm
Yet another blow to the people who actually work.
HOLY MOLLY
March 28th, 2010
4:55 pm
Look at the area Sen. Jack Hill represents Reidsville-state prisons all over the place ,Georgia Southern Univ.,Hinesville-Fort Stewart Army base. The new bill states for military childern stationed in Georgia can qualify for this fund.HUMMMM-I wonder if this had something to do with it.
williev2000
March 28th, 2010
5:17 pm
@ V for Vendetta – Hope was originally set up for student that were academic eligible and the annual household income was below a certain level. I want to say $100,000 but not certain. However, those that made over this level complained. Also, Pre-K was set up for income eligible boys and girls. Poor children barely can get seats in the program now.
The John’s Creek Crowd complained in both situations to get their share of those government dollars. Now do you have your facts straight.
Another Fine Example
March 28th, 2010
5:47 pm
When is the state legislature and state officials going to recognize that the actions they take have a detrimental impact on the overall education system in this state. Lowering standards does nothing to promote this state’s standing in this country. Just let there be some money somewhere those idiots can get their hands on and they are worse than a woman with a handbag with money in it! Why can’t they just leave some things alone! I thought HOPE was for those who earned good grades (regardless of financial standing).
Miss Ominiscient ("Mrs" in six days)
March 28th, 2010
6:01 pm
I came from what would be considered a low-income household and went to college on a full ACADEMIC scholarship. I graduated 2nd in my class and have made a successful life for myself; the younger generation of my family took note and have followed suit. My future husband comes from the same background and will attend medical school this fall. All that to say: there is no reliable correlation between income and intellect. Let some of you tell it and I should have been at a two yr college because of my family income rather than at Duke. There are lots of bright kids out there that can’t help their socioeconomic status and would love the opportunity to attend college to make better lives for themselves, and many do. But often times cost can inhibit this. The vast majority of the people I encountered in college had a vested interest in earning a degree to better themselves. Don’t make brash assumptions about people based on their SES. Many low-income students are also amongst the brightest of the bunch.
If that “middle class kid that gets no help” has stellar grades and test scores then perhaps they can take the same route to college that this poor kid who received no need based aid did.
Lee
March 28th, 2010
6:13 pm
{{{sigh}}}
The only reason HOPE has been successful is because it rewarded those students who could make and maintain good grades. As a result, the in-state colleges have experienced a resurgence of sorts as those high performing students, who would have left Ga to attend Vanderbilt, Duke, North Carolina, etc, etc, decided to stay in state and take advantage of the benefits of HOPE.
Jack Hill represents the area around Ga Southern University. He is also an alum of GSU. Look at the demographics of GSU. A needs based scholarship will benefit GSU disproportionately more than it will a Ga Tech, UGA, KSU, GA State, or West GA.
It is a zero sum game. To provide a needs based scholarship, you will have to take money away from the merit based scholarships. What you will see is more and more students take the HOPE, take the needs based HOPE, go to school for a year, and flunk out.
What they should have done is made HOPE a reimbursement program where they would pay ONLY after you go to class and make the grade.
Miss Ominiscient ("Mrs" in six days)
March 28th, 2010
6:34 pm
Holy Molly:
You complain that there will be cuts to HOPE book credits yet in the same breath ramble about handouts. What exactly is the HOPE program then, using your logic?
@ disgusted (the irony): Since when did low-income people not work? My mother is a housekeeper at the Marriott and my father worked as a Marta janitor for over 20 years. *Gasp* yes, I grew up with both parents despite being low income. And my parents pay taxes, too. They also play the lottery, which directly supports HOPE. Let some of you idiots tell it and they’re lazy, mooching bums. My low-income parents saw all three of their children graduate from college, all on full ACADEMIC scholarships. Get over yourselves and your entitlement issues. If you had the means to support your children through college, great. BE THANKFUL for that instead of judging low income families.
Unless any of you personally know “most low income families” you have no idea what you speak of, just loud and WRONG all over the place.
Miss Omniscient ("Mrs" in six days)
March 28th, 2010
6:42 pm
Many of you are missing the bigger issue here (surprise surprise). This thing is bigger than “poor kids getting handouts.” Last I checked, the CEO of the Georgia Lottery got a six-figure bonus because lottery revenue was at record highs. To piggy back bootney, if the $ is being used as it is supposed to be, no one should be worried about the funds drying up. But it’s easier to pit the people against one another, than to dig deeper and get to the real issue: how are the funds intended for HOPE really being spent?
Funny how HOPE is good enough for the North Fulton elite but seen as a handout to the poor kids who qualify too and actually NEED the money.
Miss Omniscient ("Mrs" in six days)
March 28th, 2010
6:48 pm
TJ
March 28th, 2010
2:40 pm
Someone told me a long time ago that the lottery was the only tax poor people paid. I think it’s about time we got something from them, since we spend so much on them across the board.
You should definitely take whatever “someone” told you as law, don’t bother verifying the facts for yourself.
The jokes write themselves. Let me guess? A conservative?
Northview (Ex)Teacher
March 28th, 2010
7:00 pm
Miss Omniscient,
I wouldn’t exactly call my beloved neighbors in Johns Creek “elite.” There’s no culture out here at all; it’s a wasteland in every sense, except for conspicuous consumption.
I was invited to one of my neighbor’s houses this morning and was treated to a rant about “socialism” and how “socialists” are destroying the country. His wife brags all the time about how she hasn’t read a book since high school. Of course, they expect HOPE to pick up the bill for their kids’ education.
Only in Georgia would a suburban wasteland be considered “elite.”
Miss Omniscient ("Mrs" in six days)
March 28th, 2010
7:09 pm
“What you will see is more and more students take the HOPE, take the needs based HOPE, go to school for a year, and flunk out.”
Right, because only poor kids are flunking out. Good grief…
Since we’re making assumptions, I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that the poor kid who got his tuition paid for is gonna work a lot harder to maintain a 3.0 than the kid who knows mommy and daddy can write a check for tuition, so it’s okay to party all night and flunk out. I’m also gonna make the assumption that the poor kid with limited options will take earning a college degree more serious than the kid who knows he can live off of mommy and daddy’s hedge fund. Of course I could be all sorts of wrong…
Miss Omniscient ("Mrs" in six days)
March 28th, 2010
7:12 pm
<—-one of the "high performers who opted for Duke"
But I was poor, so applaud me for not taking my state "handout"
Cheryl
March 28th, 2010
7:31 pm
Enough Already
March 28th, 2010
8:52 am
I agree with History Teacher. Students whose parents income fall into “middle class” have to borrow money to attend college even though they study and maintain their HOPE, while the “low income” student gets HOPE and grants regardless.
I am still astounded at the level of abject selfishness in this state. If your middle class, HOPE Scholarship receiving, over 3.0, perfectly prepared for success kids are in fact all you say they are, then you currently are responsible for room and board if they are away at school, and their books. You mean to tell me that you cannot afford that? Didn’t you plan for their education? If so, then why are you having to take out loans? Loans for what, room and board and books? It seems to me there a a lot of people on here, claiming to earn too much for financial aid, who are lying! It is highly unlikely that if you don’t make enough to be able to cover $8k per year more or less, then you probably would qualify for some financial aid, maybe not the entire $8K but enough to make a dent in it. If not, then perhaps your kids should go to one of the many public colleges or universities here in the Area, and then their education will be free, courtesy of the fine folks who play the lottery! Hypocrites, you all feel like you are entitled because you voted to allow people to spend their money to fund your kid’s education, and you think you are not the same as the people who get welfare? I play the lottery, $10 per month as a donation to the HOPE program, and my son goes to school in New York, and my daughter will be at Tulane this fall. You all are taking handouts from me…….and I don’t mind if some of it goes to some other kids besides yours who can use it for good purpose! SELFISH people you all are! Liars, don’t be mad at the lower income folks, you are not in any position to look down on anyone…….Maybe you should have planned better for their future and not purchased that mini-mansion with granite counter tops, stainless steel and three-car garage and saved a few bucks for your kid’s education instead!
Sick in the City
March 28th, 2010
7:32 pm
I find it interesting that so many of you are so eager to attack the “Johns Creek” crowd over this. Why should the household income affect a merit based program? There’s nothing wrong with the middle and upper middle classes actually GETTING something from the system once in a while; they are the ones funding the hell out of everything to begin with. Taxes are overwhelmingly paid in by the middle and upper-middle income levels as the rich have lots of handy tax “shelters” and the poor never contribute anything anyway. So I say, if the kids are willing to do the work they should get the benefit, regardless of what their parents may or may not have. And to even consider this would be sending these kids such a negative message. These middle class kids are already denied so much because they fit into the category that nobody wants to help. Poor minorities get a free ride in this country at the expense of everyone else and I think that’s just reverse racism/classism. This program, and many like it, shouldn’t even be able to use race or income as a factor. It should be based solely on merit and therefore given to the kids that would be the least likely to waste it after a semester. Regardless of their color or their address.
Cheryl
March 28th, 2010
7:56 pm
Miss (almost Mrs.) Omniscient – I applaud you for not taking the handout if you could find another way to get it done! I think you are an example of what we should all want our children to be, serious, focused and driven, and I for one am proud of you, even though we’ve never met. You are right in all that you say, so much selfishly motivated garbage is spewed on the boards here that Christ himself could not stand to read it.
The Irony of complaint is this…. that some people may be getting a “handout” – by people who are themselves getting a handout! They cannot see the correlation of “public funds” being used by them and public funds being used by another, they are all using them just the same. Labeling others as “lazy” or otherwise not worthy is how they justify themselves to each other, but they are not fooling anyone except those who are just like them. They think because they voted to impose certain standards which they feel they meet, then it’s not a “handout” rather it’s a reward, and well, that’s nothing new. The news to them is this, if you don’t write the check for your’s, and somebody else pays the cost for any reason, then it’s a handout. It doesn’t matter what you call it to make yourself feel better, it’s a handout. And all of you who take HOPE funds for any reason are taking a handout and not paying your own kid’s education costs yourself. So, you don’t have to worry about trying to justify yourself to these folks, they are the worst kind of hypocrites, the self righteous ones.
And BTW, cry us a river all of you self professed well off folks who can’t qualify for Financial Aid, perhaps your children should have shared a bathroom and bedrooms and you should have gone without the granite counters and stainless steel and three-car garage if you can’t afford to pay room & board and books for your kids now! It’s only about $8k per month I’m just sayin…….Where are you priorities
ksiujgth
March 28th, 2010
7:59 pm
whoo hoo – now i can get those new air jordan’s just in time for the fall semester!!
Cheryl
March 28th, 2010
8:12 pm
@ sick in the city…….What the…? Poor Minorities? To begin, the largest majority of “welfare recipients” is now and always has been poor White people. Including Joe the Plumber……..Will somebody please let this woman know that the cash assistance program in GA provides $300 for a family on TANF (welfare) and if you receive it, then it is billed back to the father of the children. So exactly what do you pay for? More White people are on food stamps today than have been since the beginning of the program. White single mothers are just as likely today to be poor as are Black single mothers. Nevertheless, If these are the people who you say are getting a free ride, then what in the world are they riding in? Most people have no idea how the Welfare system works, instead you only comment based on what you “Think” it is. Between the two there is a huge chasm! Why act so disdainful about poor people? Do you have to step on them to feel bigger or more entitled to something? I swear, every time I hear these people and their hatred for the poor, the more I am comforted in the faith that I have in the Lord and his promise to avenge them. He will shun those who shun the poor, he will repay you just as you have sewn and if it’s disdain, then disdain from him is what you will receive! It’s just disgusting to hear people who have so much belittle those who have nothing. Have you NO Shame!
Sally
March 28th, 2010
8:17 pm
Throw the bums out!! Every last one of them!!
mom
March 28th, 2010
8:18 pm
HOPE is BS- you are not bright. Hope is based on GPA not skin color.
hello.life
March 28th, 2010
8:38 pm
I would prefer that HOPE stay just based on merit and GPA.
TK
March 28th, 2010
8:47 pm
When my daughter started Ga Tech, they told parents that their child would likely lose HOPE at some point for a while. They were right. Honestly, I think she and most of her fellow classmates felt that their studies were much more difficult than those at many liberal arts schools. She did get it back a year later. She graduated with a GPA over 3.0. Let’s be clear on one thing though. The HOPE does not pay but a fraction of the cost of a college education. The other fees associated will college added up to approximately an additional 12,000.00 a year.
Ole Guy
March 28th, 2010
9:01 pm
Ominiscient, your remarks pretty much hit the bullseye. Those kids from the lower socioeconomic realm can be just as capable as their “rich kid” counterparts. However, I can understand the misconceptions many may hold on the issue. HS kids, from lower SES, typically may not have the resources of caring parents, positive domestic influences, etc (financial stability is purposefully left out) which lend to the appearance of potential success. At the end of the day, the kid’s desire, his/her internal drive may be all that would be considered a resource which no one can take away…a resource which, fueled by tenacity, will always be inexhaustible.
Farnsey, I like your comments. True, in the end, there’s absolutely no difference between political parties…they’re essentially a “tweedle dee, tweedle dum” divider which only serves as yet another abstract in the minds of the citizenry. However, and that’s a big HOWEVER with conservative restriction…if lottery funding can be needs-based ONLY, I see no problem. What with a generally watered-down high school academic intensity and inflated grades, the 3.0 stipulation is all but moot. If the kid, however, WANTS a college education, makes decent grades on the entrance exams, etc…let im go for it! If the family income, evidenced by tax records, does not support the kid’s desire, help im out, for cryin out loud! This would make a whole lot more sense than helping the kid, of financial means, who’s gonna go to college come hell or high water!
If the House passes this bill, and the lawmakers don’t gum up the issue with all sorts of meaningless hoops, I, for once, just might have a modicum of respect for those clowns.
By the way, Omini, CONGRATULATIONS!
Northview (Ex)Teacher
March 28th, 2010
9:20 pm
Sick in the City,
I might agree with you IF my beloved neighbors in Johns Creek were not ALWAYS the most vocal about how people should always pay their own way and not rely on the government. If actions speak louder than words, then we have to conclude that they mean it is wrong when other people take public funds but OK when they take the same funds.
I hope you’re not naive enough to believe that grades in suburban schools reflect merit. One joke that went around Northview was that we would all save a lot of time and grief if we would just send home a form at the beginning of the school year asking the parents to specify what grade they would accept.
They don’t believe in handouts, unless its their hand that’s out. They believe that grades should reflect academic merit, unless their child is the one found lacking. That’s why I say that they are, by and large, a den of socialists, waiting for a handout (from the poor, no less) and subverting the meritocracy they claim to want.
Math teacher
March 28th, 2010
9:30 pm
I am a high school math teacher, so you know how much money I make. College is expensive for everyone but the very very rich. I agree that Pell recipients should receive more money. Pell alone is not enough. There are too many students that cannot finish college due to lack of money. You do not know their family situation. This is not welfare. I teach upper middle class students who say they need HOPE and more and then talk about the family Christmas trip to Vail and what sorority they want to join. Yes, those items require a lot more money as well as keeping up an expensive car. At UGA you do not need a car. I teach at a public high school and UGA is a public university and we have an obligation to get our citizens educated. We do not have an obligation to pay tuition for a student whose family makes $250,000 or more. I don;t think HOPE should pay the tuition of students whose families make more than 250,000. Look around your house and decide to give up some things. We did ( and we make far less than 250,000) and we took out loans so our child could attend Harvard when she was accepted after graduating from a public high school where she recieved an excellent education. If we can do it, so can you. UGA costs far less than Harvard. Oh, and she had no car in Boston.
Cheryl
March 28th, 2010
9:48 pm
Amen Northview Ex Teacher- We live in Cobb Co and see the same thing here. I thought it was terrible when they upped the GPA for the Hope Scholarship, reason being, that the 3.0 is in the core classes and not the cumulative GPA. If a child, is in a middle school district where the school is failing, he or she may be in a district for high school that is better. During the freshman year, that student has some adjustments to make to get “up to speed” and back on track, and because they may not have had a stellar freshman first semester, meaning got an a or b in say Algebra, or Freshman Lit, then that child, has a disadvantage in reaching that core gpa, even though they may bring their overall cum up significantly. This is the case more often than not, and it has nothing to do with whether or not they will be able to handle college level coursework. It’s not the overall, it’s the core gpa, and that favors kids from better middle school districts. 4 years ago here in Cobb, we had many middle schools and high schools where the kids were not meeting AYP and many kids moved to better achieving schools. Those kids had a high hill to climb and most have, but they are left out on the HOPE bandwagon as it stands now. For this reason alone, people are very wrong about their assumptions on whether or not kids with less than a 3.0 in core classes were slackers or lazy. It’s just not ture!
Maintain Man
March 28th, 2010
10:12 pm
There would be plenty of money for HOPE if the high schools would stop fixing grades for poor little Johnny and sweet little Susie. God forbid little Johnny be held back a year because he would be better served to repeat a grade. Got to keep that AYP lookin’ good. Too many kids start college here in Georgia totally unprepared. (I say that from the experience of watching my “A” student needing to take remedial English AND Math, her first semester of college.). Being taught how to take a test, rather than understanding what is being taught, is one of the biggest issues our school system here in Georgia faces.
Sick in the City
March 28th, 2010
10:18 pm
I never said anything about welfare. What I said was that poor minorities get the “free rides,” and I stand by that. Two graduating HS seniors can apply to the same colleges with identical grades, class load, identical everything except race and household income. I guarantee you they will receive two very different sets of acceptance letters and “assistance” offers. You are kidding yourself to argue otherwise.
Further, you people don’t know me, or where I come from, so I can’t expect you to understand my position. You don’t know that I’ve had to pull myself up from nothing to get to where I am today. Or that I have lived two very different lives and have seen two totally different perspectives on this issue firsthand so I feel more than justified to voice my opinions on the matter here.
And Cheryl, I don’t believe I am risking the Lord’s vengeance, but I do appreciate your concern for my eternal soul.
Northview (Ex)Teacher
March 28th, 2010
10:28 pm
Sick,
I in no way meant to imply that you should not express your opinion, and I apologize if I came across as doing so.
We know nothing about each other, and this place allows us to engage in a robust exchange of views, if we wish to do so.
Sick in the City
March 28th, 2010
10:44 pm
Teach- Sorry, that wasn’t really aimed at you.
Cheryl
March 28th, 2010
11:21 pm
@ Sick, Anyone who reads your statement or those like them, could reasonably draw the conclusion that you are not a follower of Christ and so it would make sense. If you are, then your words do not bear his fruit. As for justification, there is no justification for speaking against the poor…… What I don’t believe your statement that you came from poverty. If you did, you would not be so quick to disparage them and feel that they get a free ride. If you took the “ride” you are speaking of, and the sorrows and immense struggles they face daily, you would not characterize them as having a free ride. If you know their plight, and how much something like a HOPE grant could mean to a kid from a life like that, and that extra $600 could mean to turning around their lives, then you wouldn’t say things like they get a free ride. You would know that no body who is poor wants to be poor and none of them think of it as a free ride.
Every poor kid who makes it to college, worked as hard as if not harder than anyone else to get there and has overcome a mountainous journey just to be there. Why do we want to act like they are looking for a handout and shouldn’t we be willing to offer it? Our “middle class” kids and “rich” kids wouldn’t know what to do, never-the-less thrive if they had to live even one day as a kid in poverty. Let’s uplift them not disparage them. As for your soul, it is not my judgment that you have to worry about, Christ was very clear about his thoughts on this subject, its not my opinion. He loved the poor with a special love, that much is clear. And even if you are not a believer, common human decency should tell you the what is right and what is good for the benefit of our fellow human beings. Every child deserves a chance. If you can afford to give yours one, then consider yourself blessed and don’t assume that if we give a chance to a kid in need, yours will have to go without. Although, alot of these selfish self-centered the world revolves around me and what I want kids could use a lesson in sacrifice. Poor kids already know how to do that!
Cheryl
March 28th, 2010
11:26 pm
@ Sick, I was also responding to the Poor Minorities comment. Did you really mean to say that?
Jesus
March 29th, 2010
12:06 am
Please, folks, leave me out of this. I would never get involved with the Georgia General Assembly. Some places are beyond even My help.
Teri Kangas
March 29th, 2010
12:34 am
I have no problem with needs based. I think students who are eligible to receive the pell should be able to qualify for the Hope. Actually, I believe that is the way it was. However, I think the academic requirements should remain. Why give college money to low performing students. How are they going to make it in college if they can not make it in high school? Those who missed in high school can go back and get the pell and if they get their grades high enough qualify for the Hope. As a parent, I have told my children. You want my help to go to college, keep a B average at least in high school. I am not paying for a kid to go to college and play around. If I won’t do it for my kid, why would the state do it for kids. High performing low income students, yes, lets get them all the help we can, but if they are not making the grade–uh they don’t want it bad enough. Silly silly legislature.
budman
March 29th, 2010
4:20 am
When the teachers are caught cheating on test scores…that says a lot
@ budman
March 29th, 2010
8:30 am
No one has been caught heating as yet!
Just Saying...
March 29th, 2010
9:32 am
Off topic:
My university charges for Summer 2010:
Undergrad Tuition – Resident $584.00
Technology Fee $75.00
LABORATORY FEE $50.00
ACTIVITY FEE $41.00
RECREATION FEE $51.00
ATHLETIC FEE $108.00
HEALTH FEE $23.00
PARK Transportation/Facilities Fee $100.00
TEMP Institution Fee $200.00
Term Charges: $1,232.00
This is for one 4-credit class summer semester 2010. What is wrong with this picture? I’ll tell you … the fees are more than tuition. These are the fees that most college students have to pay – we do not have the option to select and choose the ones we would like to pay. This is why students argue tuition increases, once you include the mandatory fees and the cost of room and board, college will cost a little over $20,000 per year at my university, which is considered to be one of the more inexpensive public colleges. This price does not include the cost of books per semester and the additional cost of class projects (3 of which cost an additional $200 min per project).
Starting fall semester a full time (12-credit) student will pay $2349 (tuition) + $598 (mandatory fees) = $2947; plus an additional $40 to $70 for every class that has a lab (all science, engineering, etc) and the cost of books (my average has been about $400 per semester). For every additional credit up to 15, add an additional $145 per credit (it becomes one flat rate after 15-credits).
So a student taking 16 credits this fall at my university will pay $3400 per semester, before the cost of books and the an additional $40 to $70 for every class they are required to take that has a lab.