College Students: We are not ATMs. Stop raising our costs.
I am delighted that the weather cooperated with today’s student rally at the Gold Dome against proposed cuts to higher education. A few hundred college students turned out and they were passionate.
Here is Laura Diamond’s AJC story:
Several hundred students from nearly all of Georgia’s 35 public colleges united for a rally Monday morning to protest proposed budget cuts. At one point, the University System of Georgia was facing up to $600 million in cuts for the 2011 fiscal year. While the actual cut may be closer to $350 million or $400 million, students said that deep of a cut still puts their education in jeopardy.
Students drove from as far as Athens, Savannah and Augusta to attend the rally, which student leaders have been organizing for weeks. Sophomore Courtney Sims was among a group of Savannah State University students that left campus at 5 a.m. to make it to the rally.
Sims, a behavioral analysis major, worried the college may have to eliminate his program because of state budget cuts. He’s annoyed that his classes are getting larger because the college can’t afford to hire more professors. He stressed over getting the courses he needs to graduate in four years.
“They need to see our faces and hear our voices so they can see who they are hurting with these cuts,” Sims said. “When you cut money to the colleges, it hurts us. I think they’ve forgotten that.”
Sims started with the rally at Hurt Park, organized by the University System of Georgia Students for Quality Education, mostly led by student body presidents. A couple of students carried a small coffin, inscribed with “R.I.P Georgia Education.” Others carried signs saying “Students are not ATMs.”
Student leaders read a statement urging lawmakers to protect higher education from severe cuts.
“The primary student objective is to preserve the quality of education and the integrity of our degrees” through four priorities: maintaining access to college; allowing students to graduate on time; keeping Georgia’s college competitive; and attracting and retaining quality professors, according to the statement.
The availability of classes is a big issue in Georgia, where students complain now that their undergraduate years are extended because they can’t get courses in their majors. The full student statement is on the money, in my view.
When I hear someone from elsewhere praise Tech, UGA or Georgia State, I am thrilled as few people ever talked about quality higher education and Georgia in the same breath a few years ago.
I think Gov. Sonny Perdue is absolutely right in his criticisms of the General Assembly’s deep gouges in the higher ed budget.
We are building a topnotch college system in the state. Don’t blow it now.
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49 comments Add your comment
JacketFan
March 15th, 2010
2:16 pm
Glad to see that the rally had a good turnout. Don’t know if the legislators were listening, but people can’t say the students of this state are apathetic.
Juan Carlos Diego Raul Sanchez
March 15th, 2010
2:23 pm
In the real world workers of cooperation’s take pay cuts…when was the last time you ever heard of a professor getting a pay cut? Never! They sit high and mighty on their ivory chair, work 3 days a week, and get paid crazy amounts of money to teach/profess. Take a pay cut expand class size. Get rid of the worthless liberal arts professors. They are nothing more than glorified Jerry Sprinters’ anyway.
ryan
March 15th, 2010
2:25 pm
As one of the student organizers, I too am glad the day went well. These education cuts could leave me economically “expelled” from my pursuit of an advanced teaching degree for social studies. Because my degree requires me to work full-time as an unpaid teacher on top of taking classes, I have to pay for tuition AND living costs fully with loans. The tuition and fee increases would take huge chunks out of my already meager funds for housing and food, forcing me into a job market where hundreds of experienced teachers are being laid off due to K-12 cuts. It’s time to find new sources of funding, through closing corporate subsidies and taxing the top 1% incomes. We’ve already suffered enough! I left my previous construction job to go back to school because of the economic crisis, and now it’s followed me here…why do working and poor people always have to bear the brunt? I’m tired of “sharing [taking, really!] the burden” for a crisis I didn’t create and everyone else should be too.
ryan
March 15th, 2010
2:31 pm
Juan, your comment tells me you know nothing about professor pay or work life. Universities are moving more and more to hiring “adjunct” professors who teach huge classes and get paid much worse than K-12 teachers. Also, professors are required to constantly publish, research, present at conferences, etc. in addition to teaching classes (and of course for every hour of class, there are many hours of meeting with students, staff, administrators, grading, lesson planning, and so on).
Professors are our allies in supporting education, not our enemies. Let me start with your original proposition and ask a more important question: when do corporate executives take pay cuts or face real accountability for the mess they’ve gotten us all into? Never. That’s the real issue. Middle class professors can be pushed into hard times relatively easily, especially with tenure becoming more rare and difficult to obtain…even the worst executives get golden parachutes and bonuses in spite of the havoc all around them.
V for Vendetta
March 15th, 2010
2:35 pm
Juan,
College profs don’t make all that much. Oh, and they write books and articles. When was the last time YOU wrote a book or article. Don’t let your disdain of the Left cloud your thinking. I lean towards the right; however, I have great respect for nearly all of the profs I have encountered over the years.
I’ve always been mystified towards those who are so quick to slam liberal college profs. Are your views so weak they can be changed by one person’s ideas, or is your mind so narrow that it can’t accept another person’s ideas?
I agree with Maureen. We need to be very careful cutting higher education. It is a dangerous road down which I think we ought not to go.
CrazyInGA
March 15th, 2010
3:07 pm
“The availability of classes is a big issue in Georgia, where students complain now that their undergraduate years are extended because they can’t get courses in their majors. ”
That is 100% true. So, now that they are facing cuts, it only means this situation will get worse. I feel sorry for Mr. Sims; because we usually chose schools for a specific program and if it gets cut; it’s hard to get transfer credit. Therefore, he will spend more money.
International students should pay!
March 15th, 2010
3:20 pm
International students should pay twice the college tuition as an out of state student. It annoys the heck out of me that these students get such a deal on tuition and then take their education out of the country while taking a seat in the classroom that could have been used by a US resident. Do the math using all the foreign students at GA TECH alone and there’s your $350 million!
The Cynical White Boy
March 15th, 2010
3:26 pm
Hope you young people enjoyed your little march and protest…but..
…until you (or your kin) find the money to write BIG CHECKS to the folks you were yelling at, they ain’t listening to you.
They listen to BIG MONEY, not students toting signs.
Alan
March 15th, 2010
3:34 pm
Juan, be careful what you wish for. A University system is only as strong as its faculty. Given their workload (much more than teaching, as others have pointed out), they are relatively underpaid. Also, Tech professors took 6 furlough days in FY2010.
The budget squeeze has already made USG professors “targets of opportunity” for peer institutions; of course, only the best professors get recruited away, leaving the weaker ones to remain. Increasing workloads and decreasing relative pay also make leaving academia for industry an attractive option, but again, it is only the best professors who have those options.
There is probably room to cut administrative costs still in the system, but not at the levels suggested by the legislature. Cutting professor compensation is only a good idea if you want to dramatically reduce the quality of a USG education.
DeKalb Conservative
March 15th, 2010
4:05 pm
Want to maintain top professors? It is real simple– have a horrible economy where other public schools in other states have funding issues and combine that with a real estate slump that makes it impossible to sell a home.
Looks like our college professors are captive, especially if you’re in Athens. Figure there aren’t too many college professor jobs outside of UGA hiring around there within a reasonable commute.
Hey, it's Enrico Pallazzo!
March 15th, 2010
4:08 pm
I understand that the Lottery was to make college affordable for those students who could make the grade. But we are in a crisis mode just to provide for K through 12. The Federal Government has Pell Grants, Scholarships, and Student Loans for those who wish to continue their education. Perhaps we should encourage excellence in our High Schools by raising the bar to an A average to receive the Hope Scholarship. The other money could be used to close the budget shortfalls in GA. I remember when they were discussing Hope, that the cost of GA colleges would increase to spend the money collected by the lottery. I think if you take a look at the tuition casts, we might find that those arguments were well founded. GA already gives an in-state tuition credit, does the Hope pay the in-state cost or the out of state cost? Just asking.
Atl Resident
March 15th, 2010
4:36 pm
I like the rally stuff, but students have being doing that for years with tuition increases even when I first attended college. Problem is government didn’t care back then and they still don’t now. I don’t think it’s fair to increase tuition, when athletics bringing in a lot of revenue for colleges. To be real, that’s where budgeting should begin.
Andrew
March 15th, 2010
4:40 pm
Mr. Courtney Sims,
We the taxpayers don’t give a damn about your behavioral analysis degree or you for that matter, we didn’t forget anything. World needs ditch diggers too.
Make it better
March 15th, 2010
4:48 pm
Get a job! Do you want to know the reason why all the people that are paying for you to have 4 or 5 more years of childhood than anyone deserves weren’t at the Capital protesting today? It is because they have to WORK like dogs so you have time to make stupid posters. Get a job, if that doesn’t pay all your tuition, get two jobs, cleaning rich kid’s dorm rooms if you have to. It worked for me.
Hey, it's Enrico Pallazzo!
March 15th, 2010
5:02 pm
The Georgia Constitution says that a Primary – High School public education for all is a priority for the state. College is a choice. K though 12 is not. Fund that first. Any money left over from the HOPE should be geared to those with the best grades, test scores, etc. I am trying to find solutions to our educational problems. Demeaning someone for their position doesn’t advance your position. It only makes you look vindictive and shallow.
fultonschoolsparent
March 15th, 2010
5:05 pm
A couple of comments – professors have been furloughed too, some GSU folks up to 12 days so far. I am unimpressed by the turn out of students. There should have been 1000’s of people. I know you’re in class, but this is a legitimate protest. In the Vietnam era, they knew how to protest and turn out. Several hundred is just pitiful, classes or not.
John
March 15th, 2010
5:09 pm
Professors do not make a lot of money. We’re talking an average starting salary of around $50k. That may sound like a good starting salary, but take anywhere from 5 to 10 percent off for student loans required to receive that education. Sometimes more. And this isn’t even considering adjunct professors, who get paid typically below minimum wage. (Oh the joys of contracting.)
As for the economy holding professors captive — this is an ignorant view of the educational marketplace, as well as the nature of the proposed cuts. If you lay off professors, some who are tenured and have built up their service to a University community over a long period, you will lose them forever. They will move.
The housing market is in shambles, but not in the areas where professors typically live. Take Athens for example: The Athens market is very strong compared to similar locations. Can’t sell your house or condo? You can put it up for rent to students.
The problem is that people believe professors make a lot of money. Some do, but the vast majority do not. Professors are not the problem. Most professors who make $70k or above are department heads, department chairs, have endowed chairs paying their salary, or have salary supplemented temporarily by grants for managing research projects.
These professors are the minority, and their job requirements are specialized. Managing a department of 4 to 30 highly educated, highly opinionated, and arrogant colleagues is, perhaps, more difficult than herding cats. This is akin to a second full-time job. Managing a complicated research project that includes fellow professors, paid assistants, student assistants, and volunteer assistants is a second full time job as well.
The bigger question is this: why is education having to shoulder such a disproportionate burden in fixing the budget? Earlier proposals had education being cut as much as $600 million to help fill a $1.1 billion shortfall in the budget. This is more than half of the budget shortfall being filled by a critical part of our government spending — a part that helps us compete against neighbors such as Alabama, Tennessee, and South Carolina. (And it does — Georgia, and Atlanta, have the big business these states lack in part because of our fantastic higher education.)
The real questions are how much of the budget goes to the University System of Georgia, how much to education as a whole (including USG funds), and how much to other areas of spending (infrastructure such as DOT, economic development, law enforcement, etc).
Taking potshots at professors who typically earn middle incomes with sizable student loan debts, however, gets us nowhere. Which, coincidentally, is where the Georgia legislature has gotten the budget this year.
Hey, it's Enrico Pallazzo!
March 15th, 2010
5:14 pm
Before HOPE, were our colleges empty? They were not. Those who had the means, smarts (Pell Grants, Scholarships, student loans, etc)or other ways found a way to get an college degree. I am not saying that tuition costs have not become outrageous. They have. But the GA Board of Regents saw that if the Hope is willing to pay, then they can increase the tuition. It is not much different from what we are seeing on a county wide basis. Until they (colleges and BOEs)realize that there is no more money will we begin to see a reduction in costs. It is simple economics.
Dunwoody Mike
March 15th, 2010
5:28 pm
Make it better,
There are MANY students that wanted to be at the protest, but we already work full time, and go to school full time as well.
James
March 15th, 2010
5:45 pm
Don’t cut spending, don’t raise taxes and don’t raise tuition – they realize that that is impossible right?
Maureen Downey
March 15th, 2010
5:53 pm
@Make it Better, Unless their job is robbing a bank, college students aren’t going to be able to pay their full way through school given the increase in college costs over the last two decades. As a quick example, I paid $5,000 for grad school. My oldest was just admitted to a grad school program and it costs $45,000.
Maureen
ryan
March 15th, 2010
6:19 pm
The assumption that students don’t already have jobs or are seeking a job is patently absurd and callous. Many of us are non-traditional students who have dealt with layoffs–forced career changes–over the last year. Many of us are parents and wish to provide more for our children in the future. Many of us have worked low-wage service jobs since we were old enough to do so, barely scraping by to pay for books and additional fees (even if we get HOPE money). Many of us are helping to support elder family members in tough times.
They say “get a job”–I say get some sense of what’s really going on…and have a heart, for once.
(Also note that we DO say raise taxes, but only on the top 1% who have refused to “share the burden,” as we working and poor folks are told to do so often.)
Math Teacher
March 15th, 2010
7:11 pm
A quick comment on the earlier post that international students should pay – they do. In-state tuition at UGA and Georgia Tech is $3035 dollars per semester (not including other fees such as student activity fees, technology fees, health services fees, etc., room and board, or books). Out-of-state tuition, including for international students, is $12,140 per semester.
$750K
March 15th, 2010
8:35 pm
At least we have money to pay some football coach at UGA $750K. Does that not indicate a skewed set of priorities?
Always money for football; never money for education.
RH
March 15th, 2010
8:58 pm
“There should have been 1000’s of people. I know you’re in class, but this is a legitimate protest. In the Vietnam era, they knew how to protest and turn out. Several hundred is just pitiful, classes or not.”
There is the problem …. kids today expect things to be handed to them if they throw a small tantrum. Problem is, it not going to happen and they know it. Why go out en masse and protest something that will never be? Truth is a public – state funded college education is cheap and kids are getting a heck of a deal. Why rush out anyway to get a job and take a job from someone with a family that needs the money more?
RH
March 15th, 2010
9:00 pm
@ $750K Educate yourself man! That $$$ does not come from the same place and does not take away from academics.
RH
March 15th, 2010
9:02 pm
“Out-of-state tuition, including for international students, is $12,140 per semester.”
Out of country / international should be doubled, if not tripled!
Hank Rearden
March 15th, 2010
9:06 pm
Real shame the parents of K-12 in this sorry, sorry state of GA don’t care for their kids’ education like these college kids do theirs.
$750K
March 15th, 2010
9:15 pm
Football does not take away from academics? Excuse me while I get up from laughing so hard I fell on the floor.
Football destroys academics. UGA is exhibit one.
HOLY MOLLY
March 15th, 2010
9:16 pm
Board of Regents is the PROBLEM,has always been and will continue to be. POLITICS AT IT’S BEST!!The students are looking in the wrong place.Times are hard,everybody read the headlines.We(USA)are 12 Trillion in debt.Over 8 trillion in loans to other nations. I know all about the pork in both federal and state budgets;however if you don’t have the MONEY what can you do? The only answer is higher taxes,fees,and increase tuition by the way of Hope Funding.Today if you are a college student be thankful;because in about 10 years only the rich will be attending college .The GREAT DEPRESSION-it’s almost here again
ScienceTeacher671
March 15th, 2010
9:51 pm
There are 18 members of the Board of Regents…how much is each of them paid, and what benefits do they receive?
HOLY MOLLY
March 15th, 2010
9:53 pm
RH and 750K you are both right. All universities with sports have what they call assoc. funds donated by the alumini or private donations for the program that supports that sport(football,basketball,etc.)However the same can be said about the academic programs.They receive what the Presidents of the college calls Fondition Funds donated by alumini fees and other private sources for whatever the trustees approve. Majority of these are academic programs or salaries of Presidents
HOLY MOLLY
March 15th, 2010
9:56 pm
ScienceTeacher671 go to http://www.open.ga.gov. Look under Board of Regents for salary info
ScienceTeacher671
March 15th, 2010
10:12 pm
HOLY MOLLY, thanks. They don’t seem to make that much – all of them under $3000 in salaries last year, although some of them had more than $3000 in travel expenses….
Cobb Parent
March 15th, 2010
10:14 pm
I find it interesting, that in my son’s graduating high school class, the majority are actively considering going to college out of state. You’d think with the economy, more would choose to stay in-state but the reverse is happening. I think what’s happening is that the top students in Georgia don’t have to stay in-state and they realize this. Until now, HOPE has given many a reason to stay in Georgia and helped the state universities hold their own reputation wise. But take that away and raise tuition and all of a sudden these students will go out of state for college and take their bright futures with them.
HOLY MOLLY
March 15th, 2010
10:24 pm
ScienceTeacher671 where did you look? All of the chancellor or vice cha. make over 150,000.00 to over 200,000.00 per year There are directors that make over 120,000.00.The Chairman of the board makes over 500,000.00 per year plus bene’s.
Ole Guy
March 15th, 2010
10:31 pm
Ryan, Vendetta, and probably a few others out there who either hold disdain for college instructors’ lot or understand the demands of collegiate life from the profs’ chair: There is an ole adage relative to functioning within a world of turmoil…”Be like a duck…calm and serene on the surface, paddle like hell underneath”. Perhaps Juan, from the viewpoint of a student, simply misinterprets the prof’s composure of serenety as one of “coasting”. Any one hour of “platform time” requires mucho grande in the way of preparation and follow-up from previous classes. I imagine Juan’s “ivory chair” impression is simply the observation of a professional at work.
Because the student body at my alma mater was almost 100% either current or former Army Aviators, I used to get a kick out of seeing some of my instructors at our Quade A (Army Aviation Association of America) functions. This had a profound impact on the way I, and many of my classmates, viewed that “Ivory Chair”. On the down side, this familiarity probably diminished the “arm’s length” relationship that should exist in any superior/subordinate situation, such as that of student/teacher. However, we were all a little older than traditional students, and (probably) a little wiser, at least when we weren’t at the bar!
HOLY MOLLY
March 15th, 2010
10:32 pm
Also the Board is appointed by the governor .The Employees of the Board is where the FAT is. Most of the board itself is outside business people.They get paid on a per diem basis. The Board is only for SHOW-DOG AND PONY. IT is the EMPLOYEES that make the policy and procedures
dogmom
March 15th, 2010
11:21 pm
@Maureen – Where is your child planning to attend grad school? A private university? Out of state? $45k sounds a bit steep unless it’s a specialty program. Total cost for my master’s and specialist degrees combined (from a top 5 university in my particular field) were about half that cost. I worked full-time, attended grad school part-time and paid as I went.
Although I am a teacher, I do not think college is for every student. I also concur with Clark Howard in that parents should fund their retirement before funding a child’s college education. A college degree is a gift from a parent to his or her child – not an entitlement or right. Any kid who is truly motivated to attend college will obtain that degree somehow. I have three nieces who are living proof of this. They come from a family of very modest means. One recently graduated from college and the other two are on track to finish by December. They received scholarships, financial aid and worked part-time, but took out no loans.
Maureen Downey
March 15th, 2010
11:42 pm
dogmom, She is considering a private college in Washington that has a specialty grad degree in her area. Her program would be three semesters, and the $45,000 covers all of it.
Out of curiosity, I Iooked up my own grad program, which had cost me $6,000. (I thought it was $5,000 because I recalled writing that one big check, but now I think I also had to put down a deposit and pay some enrollment fees.)
It is now $51,063 and that does not include room and board, which, in New York City, would be another major expense. Not sure how folks afford it. I would never have attended grad school at that cost.
Maureen
dogmom
March 16th, 2010
8:30 am
@Maureen – I agree. Grad schools can be a bit pricey. Sometimes, you have to get a little creative to achieve your goals. I’m positive your daughter will strike a happy medium between her wants and budget. My graduate studies were done at a public university with out-of-state fee waivers thanks to the Academic Common Market program. There’s no way I could have afforded graduate school otherwise. My costs would have easily been double at a private university.
Ole Guy
March 16th, 2010
9:59 am
Uncle Sugar paid for my undergrad degree; one of Uncle’s contractors covered the freight on my graduate degree.
While I am sympathetic toward the plight of college students, I am also chagrined by their avoidance of commitment to that which may be deemed unpleasant at best. Yes, I’m talking about the military. There are so many options available, both in terms of educational funding and civilian-related experiences. Rather than even considering these time-honored means of attaining long-term goals, kids/young adults will simply complain, piss, moan, and whine about how tough their plight is.
rosco
March 16th, 2010
11:09 am
Those who have attacked professors are very ignorant. About 70% of employees in the USG, which includes most faculty members make less than $50,000 a year. Moreover, most professors have a Ph.D. At your average two-year and four-year college in Georgia, professors teach between three and five classes a semester. Many also teach during the summer. Each class requires preparation time. In addition, professors spend a great deal of time grading assignments, helping students (either in person during office hours or via e-mail), serving on college committees and in many cases advising student clubs. Finally, professors are expected to conduct research, which at institutions such as UGA and Georgia Tech is often their primary focus.
I know all of this because I am a professor at a two-year college in the USG. I generally work between 50-70 hours a week, which includes nights and weekends. Oh, and I have seen my salary (but not my workload) slashed because of furloughs. I love my job and greatly enjoy seeing my students learn. I certainly don’t do it for the money.
However, if the state of Georgia decides to go after professors and dramatically cut our pay, I will leave my job either as soon as I find a position in another state or in another field altogether. This may take time, but the recession won’t last forever. The bottom line is that I need to provide for my family. If my pay is cut to the point where I can’t make a decent living and if conditions are significantly worsened, I will be forced to find another job. Many of my colleagues will also leave. And the resulting exodus will give USG institutions a bad reputation for years to come. It doesn’t have to come to this. I hope those who wish to blame things on professors will reconsider and will seek to educate themselves about the reality of life in higher education.
ScienceTeacher671
March 16th, 2010
12:18 pm
HOLY MOLLY, I ended up searching on one of the Regent’s names, then saw the job title was listed as “Regent” and searched using that job title.
bootney farnsworth
March 16th, 2010
6:08 pm
@ Maureen,
who owns the logos of the state schools?
the school, the athletic association, or third party?
and if its anything but the school, why?
bootney farnsworth
March 16th, 2010
6:13 pm
@ Molly,
who is gonna pay your higher taxes? if you are correct about us being in or near a depression (I agree, BTW) unemployed folks are hard to tax.
what have you seen to make you think the legislature would be more responsible with additional taxes? they can’t responsibly manage what they already have.
if you try to tax “the rich” they just move themselves and their money.
the answer lies in elimination of the staggering amount of pork and the stupid non essentials which burden higher education.
alch
March 17th, 2010
1:32 am
Generally, out of state tuition is twice the in state rate; international/foreign tuition is twice the out of state rate (or four time instate rate).
Gerard
March 17th, 2010
10:25 am
Raise tuition to international students and we will all leave, specially when our visas prohibit us to work in jobs outside our academic objectives and TAs and RAs are limited.
Ricardo Restrepo
March 17th, 2010
11:01 am
Something about the comment concerning international students tuition. That tuition, together with out of state tuition is MARKET PRICE, if it is increased, they will just go to a place offering the better combination of price/quality. Please,… there are hundreds of top universities in the US alone, there is also Canada, UK, France, Netherlands, Germany, etc, etc… where they will be happy to offer a similar quality undergrad degree for the bucks.