Frat fun at UGA: Knick, knack, paddy whack, give the pledge a bruised back
What is it with fraternities and paddling? (See the AJC story on the latest University of Georgia chorus of Knick, Knack, Paddy Whack, Give the pledge a bruised bone.)
I understand the historic roots of fraternal organizations on campuses but don’t see how physically assaulting pledges honors the ideals. Nor do I understand why fraternities persist in these behaviors when there has been so much publicity about the repercussions to chapters when pledges suffer injuries. Whether the paddling caused serious injury – as a parent alleges anonymously in this case – or not, striking fellow students seems idiotic and dangerous.
A friend of mine oversees a campus in the northeast – she is in student life – and laments how much time she spends on fraternity and sorority issues, mostly around abuses of the alcohol policies. Several studies have found binge drinking and alcohol abuse are higher among members of Greek organizations. And it goes for women and men.
I know the Greek organizations require members do good works. but I also think they provide protective coloration for some bad behaviors. A friend’s daughter tells me that her sorority is really about two things – drinking and parties. On the other hand, I know some very bright kids who join them, but I also have noticed that disenchantment often sets in after the first year.
There is not much new to say about this because it is always the same stupid behaviors. I find it depressing that we send kids off to college where there are all sorts of opportunities for wonderful enrichment and bonding and they somehow find entertainment value in hitting one other.
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77 comments Add your comment
North GA H.S. Math Teacher
March 3rd, 2010
1:25 pm
Thank you sir may I have another.
Proud Black Man
March 3rd, 2010
1:40 pm
Actualy if you check one will fine that these are hol overs from slaverry days. Sinse the white man cn no longer wip peopul of coler he must be content with wipping himselve. Pitiful is it not???
Black Girl
March 3rd, 2010
1:48 pm
That’s “thank you big brother can I have another”. My dad told me about that during his colllege days in the 60’s. Seems like nothing has changed.
Proud White Man
March 3rd, 2010
2:17 pm
It is a good thing you are proud, because you sure as hell aren’t intelligent. We still whip people of color, but it is in the game of life…
ga
March 3rd, 2010
2:31 pm
so stupid. Another reason why education systems need to abolish it and the lawmakers need to get off their hindquarters and outlaw it in GA. So stupid
atlfunlvr
March 3rd, 2010
3:07 pm
State sanctioned S&M…goooooo dogs!
rocky redwood
March 3rd, 2010
3:18 pm
the same reason rookies are made to carry a veteran’s gear in profesional ball leagues. the same reason a recent law school graduate has to make the partner’s coffee.
My two cents...
March 3rd, 2010
4:27 pm
Please explain the difference between pledging a fraternity or sorority and being jumped into a gang. Please explain the difference between the blind allegiance to a fraternity or sorority and the blind allegiance to a gang.
high school teacher
March 3rd, 2010
6:04 pm
My two cents, I don’t see a difference, except that you probably don’t have to pay hundreds of dollars to get into a gang. When I started college over 20 years ago at UGA, participating in Rush Week cost $400, which did not even guarantee getting into a sorority. That was not for me! I made lots of friends throughout my college years that I didn’t have to pay for.
JoDeeMcD
March 3rd, 2010
6:19 pm
I don’t understand the added value of a fraternity or sorority, anyway. My son will be attending Tech next fall—-I sincerely hope he doesn’t pledge.
Tex
March 3rd, 2010
6:31 pm
Joined a frat when I was in college. Best thing I ever did. Not only did my frat brothers keep me from quitting school at times they have been great business contacts since I graduated 20 years ago. I will strongly encourage my kids to join the greek system.
Farewell
March 3rd, 2010
6:36 pm
Proud White Man, I think you got rolled by Proud Black Man (unless you, too, are trolling with that inane comment).
In the 80’s, the rule was “it’s hazing if you wouldn’t do it in front of his mother”.
1216Dawg
March 3rd, 2010
8:05 pm
No excuse at all for physical contact with a pledge. With that said my time in a fraternity at UGA was priceless. The social part was great but the leadership, communication, and teamwork skills I gained were something that could not have been replicated if I had not joined. Fraternities like all organizations when they begin to get off track need to re-evaluate themselves and sometimes have to start over from scratch.
Anonymous
March 3rd, 2010
8:19 pm
Of course, no one ever wants to report the good things that fraternities and sororities do. No one wants to report that the average Greek Life student has a higher GPA then a non-Greek student. No one wants to report the significant contributions that fraternities and sororities pledge to philanthropic organizations every year. No one wants to report that many campus organizations have a disproportionate number of participants from Greek life than non-Greek life. No one wants to report that most of the campus’ student leaders come from Greek life. Then again, that probably wouldn’t sell papers, or generate hits on blogs either, so why would they? Most of the people hold over stereotypes from when they were in college about Greek life, and never choose to open their mind to the positives of Greek life. The AJC passed over another article on the same website, right next to the article about hazing, that talked about a fraternity reaching out to the community. But who wants to read that, when every non-Greek life member can comment and generate some more money for the floundering Atlanta Journal Constitution? I would urge all of you who aren’t biased to go to the Red and Black and check out the other article. I’m by no means saying that Greek life is perfect, and that it is for everyone, because the fact is that it isn’t. But for some people it is, and most of those people receive an experience they will never forget from their 4 years in college. Fraternities and sororities drink, along with everyone else. Fraternities and sororities are guilty of a lot of stupid things, but so are many other college students. Put together a random assortment of 100 individuals from any college, and I would find it hard to believe that they wouldn’t do something stupid. Yet it remains to easy to single Greek life out because they belong to something bigger than the individual, and represent far more than any one member ever could, so why would we stop now? The actions taken by these men do not represent their entire fraternity, much less the entire Greek life of campus, or the university itself. What they did was beyond wrong and they are paying the punishment for it. Yet some choose to ignore that fact, and condemn everyone for the transgressions of a few stupid individuals. But why should we ever begin to think for ourselves, when we can have a newspaper whose sole job is to make money tell us?
Larry
March 3rd, 2010
8:23 pm
I am a third generation PiKappaAlpha, and my son belongs to the fraternity in trouble, although he is at the University of Alabama. I feel the sending of anonymous letters to the Greek Life people is pathetic. The hazing my Dad went through made what I endured seem meek by comparison. Likewise what my son went through was not as bad as mine. I have no problem with hazing as a concept, but sometimes it is carried too far. But, the main point is that if someone wants to complain, they need to put their name to their complaint. My chapter was accused of severe hazing by an anonymous call which proved to be false, but we still had to endure the investigation. PiKapp’s national is right to stand up to the University on this matter.
SE GA Teacher
March 3rd, 2010
8:31 pm
This sounds like one of those issues where all the cards aren’t on the table, as yet. I wouldn’t progress in my comments, if I were you, until all the information is available. You don’t want to have to “eat your words.” In other words, you better be certain of all your information before you start something!!!
SE GA Teacher
March 3rd, 2010
8:36 pm
Guess you are keeping my comments out.
SE GA Teacher
March 3rd, 2010
8:37 pm
Yes, you are. That one went in, but the other didn’t.
Jason
March 3rd, 2010
8:42 pm
Tex and Larry- I agree with you both. I am a member of Pi Kappa Phi although a different Chapter. For those of you that are on here that were not a part of the greek system, well, that was your choice and they are not “paid for friends”. Only someone that was never a part of the greek system would say something like that. We too had calls made and they too were proven false. The day I have a son and he goes to college, I too will encourage him to rush. The connections and friendships last a lifetime. I’m glad our National is looking into this and wish the brothers of this chapter good luck on keeping things going as normal. Yours in Pi Kappa Phi- Jason
Scott
March 3rd, 2010
8:45 pm
bravo larry,
phi phi k a
Jason
March 3rd, 2010
8:46 pm
Tex and Larry-
I agree with you both. I am a member of Pi Kappa Phi although a different chapter. For those on here that were not part of the Greek system, that was your choice and only someone that was not a part of that system would think they are “paid for friends”. We too got calls that ended up being false and when I have a son, I too will encourage him to rush. They are connections and friendships that last a lifetime. I’m glad our National is looking into this matter and wish the brothers of this chapter good luck on resolving this and keeping things going as usual. Yours in Pi Kappa Phi- Jason
Laura
March 3rd, 2010
8:55 pm
Nice. Every time something like this comes up it leads to Greek bashing. This is an aberration, not the norm. The closest any of our Greek chapters came to hazing when I was in college was that one fraternity had their pledges carry a brick, and wear bright yellow shirts… and their national office almost pulled their charter for that. The national organizations keep a very tight watch on things like this, mostly for the atrocious PR that comes along with it, and of course because it’s humiliating and wrong.
Our sorority was so paranoid about hazing charges that we weren’t even allowed to de-pledge anyone that we felt wasn’t a good addition to the chapter. Heck, we had to change the term “rush” to recruitment to not scare anyone, and “Rho Chi” (rush counselors) to something else. It was absurd.
I have been close friends with some of my sorority sisters for over ten years, one of which I consider just as close as, if not closer than family. These were some of the best relationships I’ve had over the years. Before anyone calls me out on “paying for my friends,” you have to pay dues to join an organization – if I were to join PAGE, or GAE, and then make friends through that organization, would I not be paying for my friends as well? A decent chunk of our dues went to administrative purposes on a national level, but a lot of them went to our sorority’s three charities.
Come to think of it, about 75% of my time in college was spent planning, publicizing, and executing charitable events and fund-raisers. I’d like to know where in the world these wild parties were, because as president of my sorority I was more concerned with making sure my chapter had the highest GPA of any Greek (or otherwise) organization on campus and making sure our checks were cut to the charities on time.
Cripes, after all of the work I did, not to mention graduating with honors, I think that going to a party to have a few drinks would have been a very welcome award.
Punk Teacher
March 3rd, 2010
8:59 pm
Being a UGA frat boy is the absolute lowest form of human existence.
ABC
March 3rd, 2010
9:03 pm
Just don’t be a sheep and join any of these outdated organizations.
JJ
March 3rd, 2010
9:06 pm
If you do not want to be part of it don’t do it. That goes for joining and hazing. I didn’t participate in college sports but I still like it. I wasn’t on the math team but still use math! People always want to bash Greeks. You guys only saw our parties and t-shirts. You didn’t see the huge fund raisers for Habitat for Humanity or for the disabled. You didn’t see us doing clothing drives for disaster victims. You didn’t see us supporting the community food banks or shelters. We do a lot to help people. We work hard and play harder. So what? 20 years later my fraternity (not a FRAT and you know why) brothers are still my best friends. They’ve helped me, I’ve helped them. We help each other. Just because we went through a process and made a decision to do it doesn’t make us bad. Did you choose not to join an organization? Did you choose to join the band? Play football? Just sit in your dorm and have close friends? You made a choice.
Some people do not like things and try to ruin them. Jealousy and greed.
Georgia Tech Student
March 3rd, 2010
9:09 pm
No lie. The psychology department (and I’m sure other such professionals) claims that hazing makes a bond stronger.
Punk Teacher
March 3rd, 2010
9:12 pm
What is the absolute lowest form of human existence? UGA frat boy.
Reader
March 3rd, 2010
9:19 pm
Can’t believe they got suspended for padding, but who was the tattle tell? lol they should get suspended too.
Bo Doodley
March 3rd, 2010
9:22 pm
Lowest form of human existance a UGA frat boy or a Punk Teacher? We all know from experience that a Punk Teacher sucks.
Bo Doodley
March 3rd, 2010
9:24 pm
JeezUs H, we’ve become a society of wimps and crybabies.
former IFC prez
March 3rd, 2010
9:33 pm
i had the inglorious privilege of being an IFC president at my college, and I can tell you – hazing is everywhere… and it’s worse than anyone will admit. The binge drinking, the dares, the challenges, the humiliation, the abuse. it IS systemic. And not just the PKAs, PKP’s, KS’s, KA’s, SN’s, and SAE’s, but don’t forget the branding and humiliation from KAPsi and OPsiPhi’s … these groups are great at their best (charity work) and dangerous at their worst (hazing deaths).
The fact that hazing has been around for years does not make it right.
ML1153
March 3rd, 2010
9:35 pm
@ my two cents: a gang is organized solely for criminal or nefarious purposes, and never fails to live up to its intended purpose. A fraternity is organized for noble purposes like friendship, scholarship, and morality, and sometimes fails to live up to its intended purpose. That’s the difference.
@ high school teacher: please spare us the paying for your friends argument. Have you never chipped in with friends to go on a trip, or to have a social event? If you haven’t, you have my pity, but if you have, then you’ve participated in something similar to a fraternity. The fraternity is just more organized, and repeats the arrangement all school year. You know who usually makes the pay for your friends argument? People who could never have been admitted to a fraternity.
Fraternities are by their nature exclusive organizations. They aren’t for everyone. All national fraternity organizations have a general staff that works with the undergraduates to try to make them better men/women by providing guidance, programming, and support. It’s up to the undergrads to make use of that support, or to abuse/ignore it. The skills I learned in my fraternity are invaluable to my current success, and are the same skills that have been used for over 200 years by Presidents of the US, members of Congress, CEO’s of Fortune 500 companies, governors, entrepreneurs, actors, athletes, members of the military, Supreme Court Justices, and above average men and women around the world. All that success is either a giant coincidence, or fraternities had something to do with it.
New Stepmom
March 3rd, 2010
9:42 pm
Laura, you summed greek life up perfectly. Thank you for your well written assessment.
As for the comment in the original post “I know the Greek organizations require members do good works. but I also think they provide protective coloration for some bad behaviors.” I cannot disagree more. There was more hazing done by the band at Auburn than by any of the sororities. But band geeks hazing does not make a sexy story so it does not get investigated or reported. I would be willing to bet that this letter is fabricated since it was not signed. Did anyone learn anything from the Duke Lacrosse incident.
BigDawg
March 3rd, 2010
9:44 pm
I’m a proud member of the Pi Kapp chapter in question. I’d like to highlight the major overlooked portion of this: the national organization has done an investigation and believes the anonymous letter to be unsubstantiated and doubtful at best. They’ve admitted there have been wrong doings, but not to the extent detailed in the letter. I was never paddled during my time (over ten years ago) and hope that whatever took place is an isolated event. It certainly isn’t the culture of the national organization or the chapter in question. As JJ mentioned above, my best friends today are still my pledge brothers. This article and others in the Red & Black won’t bring up the good works we do (our charity golf tourney coming up for example), but they’ll jump on the first wiff of bad news. I don’t understand the animosity towards such a great institution (greek life) that does so much good work and helps to mold so many young men and women. So much judgment from the outside, but I guarantee every alumni at Pi Kappa Phi or other frats on campus look back on their experiences as some of the best in their life.
Punk Teacher
March 3rd, 2010
9:47 pm
I’d rather teach a pig than a UGA frat boy.
Tobasco Room
March 3rd, 2010
9:47 pm
Amen BigDawg. It Ain’t wrong…
BigDawg
March 3rd, 2010
9:52 pm
And what’s up with the title? Could you be more judgmental about an incident you obviously haven’t researched. I’m all for an educated discussion about hazing, but don’t agree with the approach. Let’s not judge until the facts have been put on the table. This was an “anonymous” letter. The leap to bruising backs is one you can’t substantiate nor should you infer.
Charleston DAWG
March 3rd, 2010
9:54 pm
This sounds like another way for President Adams to get another parking lot. It souonds a lot like the Chi Psi outing. That guy needs to go! He his making game days and college life worse on the students and fans of the school.
enlightenment
March 3rd, 2010
10:05 pm
Birds of a feather flock together, its the rare bird who leaves the nest and hangs with birds of a different feather. College/Life should be about trying on different hats, not running to the safety of conformity….
Punk Teacher
March 3rd, 2010
10:10 pm
Buying your friends: frat boy.
Flunking frat boys just because you can: priceless
Mark
March 3rd, 2010
10:13 pm
The victims are now being punished by having their fraternity taken away? Pledging was one of my fondest experiences from college. I am still best friends with my brothers. Yes we drank too much, acted obnoxiously fratty, and were brutally hazed. We still had a blast and talk about the wild times to this day. Outsiders should not judge based on media stereotypes and immature jealousy. Fraternities are very special to the members and in a free society they should be permitted.
Punk Teacher
March 3rd, 2010
10:29 pm
Mark,
Did your love of hazing lead you and your frat boy pals into a life of homosexual sadomasochism? Talk about wild times!
rlee
March 3rd, 2010
10:44 pm
Joining a frat is a choice. Hazing is not okay, but pledges can walk away. I never pledged a sorority, but saw the benefits of many of my friends. My husband was in a frat and still has wonderful friends from over 15 years ago. It’s the frat you pick. And Punk Teacher, stop commenting. You just look like a wimpy homophobic little boy that was thrown out during Rush.
Jump On
March 3rd, 2010
10:45 pm
2 people on this discussion.
1. Those who dislike fraternities (including the author), not in em but not fans.
2. Those who were actually in a fraternity.
All wrapped in a topic written by a journalist with no substantive evidence. UGA hearsay is always my favorite. I am very happy Kirby Smart is UGA’s OC, Bob Knight is UGA’s basketball coach, Georgia-Florida will rotate to Atlanta every other year, and every year the outraged Alumni are finally getting rid of Michael Adams….
But lets all jump on, we’ve all watched Frat movies so we know..give em hell..
Ben James
March 3rd, 2010
10:46 pm
What a generation of wimps we have now. I was a WW2 and a Korean war vet when I pledged Theta Chi at GA Tech in ‘53. The butt beating and other indignities paled in comparison to what I got as a polywog (crossing the equator ceremony) in the navy. You know what you’re getting into when you pledge so why all the whining? Our present generations of young men and women are much smarter than we were but they would never have survived what we went through, both as military recruits and as pledges.
Punk Teacher
March 3rd, 2010
11:04 pm
Loving that beating: frat boy
Gettting told to shut up by a SB: priceless
Jump On
March 3rd, 2010
11:47 pm
I guess my previous comment saying the author of this article is biased and using my friend said and my daughters friend said comments too much wont get posted….lets see if this gets on.
The Word
March 4th, 2010
12:05 am
The Author of this article, like her sinking newspaper is writing an opt-ed on hearsay using sources as “my friend” and “my daughter’s friend” as reliable sources. Come on, even the original story quotes this as a “Duke Lacrosse” case. Again using another great source from an “anonymous” letter from a parent we have stellar case against a group of kids. Good research Maureen! You showed great insight here! As for the discussion we have two obvious view points. I dislike fraternities and didn’t join one, or I enjoy fraternities and they do great things for Universities including; higher GPA’s, higher graduation rates, and provide more philanthropic activities to college communities.
But hey I know as little as everyone else here.
1.
Cooler then You
March 4th, 2010
12:39 am
Whenever I hear of another nationally reported hazing incident occurring, empathy immediately comes to mind, especially with close ties to the above mentioned fraternity. I also feel anger at the hate and judgement that coincides with stories like this. Most people who have never belonged to a Greek organization, but certainly not all, do not have the slightest idea about the culture or camaraderie that embodies most fraternities and sororities. And we like to keep it that way. Because what you see and your opinion of us is totally irrelevant in the context of things.
This is an isolated event that would never be allowed or tolerated by the chapter, and it remains a serious problem that needs to be addressed. But the punishment of the entire organization is beyond ridiculous and it’s consequences will be felt for many years to come. Anybody think about how some of the other members of the new pledge class feel? They now have nothing to show for getting initiated, which is almost tragic.
I could continue this cyber trash talk for days after some of the asinine comments I read from bitter, self-loathing bloggers that plague this society, but I’m not. What I will do is make these two crucial points;
1. To any concerned parents I say that the benefits and rewards your child will receive in their 4-7 years as members in college tremendously outweigh the negatives brought on by immature members who think nothing of their consequences
2. To all the haters that lurk in the sewers of great organizations like the Greek community, we will never be beaten. You see we hold a strength that you do not know, that you do not see, and most importantly do not possess. And while you hate us for everything we are, we don’t hate you. We proudly hold are arms open to persons of character and values that seek a greater unity then simple college friends, but it is not for everyone. They call us assholes cause we are elite, I say we’re elite cause they call us assholes. So bring it on with your worn out “pay for friends” and “gay” rhetoric, cause I’ve heard it before. But it won’t change the fact that at days end, we are Real Men of Genius, and for that I salute you.
Sincerely, John Blutarsky
Cooler then You
March 4th, 2010
12:41 am
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