“We cannot make AYP.” And so the erasing and lying began in a DeKalb school.
Through an open records request, the AJC has obtained affidavits of two DeKalb school administrators who admitted that they reviewed CRCT answer sheets, realized their school would not make its critical benchmarks and then systematically doctored answers so their kids not only passed, but passed with flying colors.
The details are in this AJC exclusive story.
And they are chilling.
As AJC education writer Kristina Torres reports:
A few dozen of their elementary school students had just finished high-stakes summer retests — exams first taken in spring but not passed. With just a glance at the answer sheets, Atherton Elementary School Principal James Berry and Assistant Principal Doretha Alexander saw they were in trouble.
“We cannot not make AYP,” Alexander said. Not making AYP, or adequate yearly progress, meant not meeting a required federal benchmark. These students, all fifth-graders, also faced being held back if they did not pass.
“OK,” Berry answered. He pulled a pencil from a cup on Alexander’s desk. “I want you to call the answers to me.”
With that, he began to erase the students’ answers.
In light of the devastating state audit of CRCT test sheets that revealed possible answer tampering in many schools. I suspect this scenario happened more than any of us ever suspected. I want to salute the AJC education team members who set this whole thing in motion with their in depth look at CRCT scores over the last 18 months.
In the fall of 2008, prior to the state’s investigation, the AJC published an analysis that showed improbable gains at some schools on tests taken first in the spring and then in the summer. One of those schools was Atherton, where half of the DeKalb school’s fifth-graders failed a yearly state test in the spring. When the 32 students took retests, not only did every one of them pass — 26 scored at the highest level. At the time, Berry told the paper that he knew of no problems with test security.
To my AJC colleagues who spent months on this investigation and who prompted the state to finally act, I offer my gratitude both as a journalist and a parent of four kids in public schools.
And to the education world, I have to ask how this was allowed to go on and what is the next step to restore public confidence and improve teacher morale?
Many of you complain that the actions of Berry and Alexander reflect a test mania that has gotten out of hand. But without testing, how can we know for sure how students are doing? And why is testing vilified?
No one complains about testing in medicine when they are sick. Yes, you trust your doctor’s evaluations that you have a serious disease. but you undergo the tests to verify the doctor’s observations and professional judgment.
So, while parents may trust a teacher’s assessment that their child is on target, why not test to verify?
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119 comments Add your comment
lanerlaw
February 12th, 2010
11:18 am
The question is what can be done to prevent this in the future. $100 says nothing happens to the districts with the cheaters, they will keep all the tax money and raises they got due to this cheating. Our legislature wants to pay the teachers based on test performance, but then not have accountability to see if there is cheating???????????????????????
Perhaps the students need bussed to colleges or central locations to take the tests.
Dr. John Trotter
February 12th, 2010
11:23 am
I am the one who has been harping the loudest on the testing mania which has not only gripped Georgia but the whole nation (cf., No Child Left Behind as Exhibit No. 1). Like I explained in the previous topic on Beverly Hall, you simply go back to the days of non-pressure, generalized Achievement Tests administered once per year. The results of these tests are not used to embarrass low-performing schools (most all of which are located in economically impoverished areas). You don’t use the results to hit the educators over the head or to expect them to perform a miracle which neither Horace Mann nor Booker T. Washington could perform. You simply cannot win the Kentucky Derby with jackasses. It is that simple, but it seems that only people associated with MACE are willingly to openly state the obvious. Anyone else stating this usually hides behind cyber anonymity. My name is John Trotter, and I challenge anyone to show me where economically-deprived students have consistently, as a group, ever outscored students who come from high income backgrounds. It simply does not occur. Superintendents like Beverly Hall can hold her principals and executive directors “accountable” until the cows come home, but this will only cause frustration and/or cheating. Period.
Allow the teachers to use the scores from the Achievement Tests to simply understand the strengths and weaknesses of each child, and then allow the teachers to use their professional wisdom, discretion, and judgment to lovingly engage the child in some real learning. For those children who simply refuse to learn and refuse to behave, then these children will have to be removed from the regular classroom environment so that their anti-social and anti-academic conduct cannot materially and substantially disrupt the learning processes of those students who want to learn.
Educational policy-makers simply have to shift from their existing paradigm. They are working from the simple notion that students learn because teachers teach. Then, if students do not learn, it is because teachers are not teaching. This paradigm does not take into account intervening variables. The new paradigm (and one “stolen” by me from one of my former professors at UGA, Dr. Eugene Boyce) is this: “The motivation to learn is a social phenomenon.” The key to learning is motivation. If the student is not motivated to learn, then the teacher can teach his or her heart out until he or she is green in his or her face, but no learning will not take place if the student simply refuses to learn. The lessons taught by the teacher can be more effective than any educator has ever delivered, but if the student comes from a culture which does not value learning, then more than likely the student will bring little or no motivation to learn to school each day. It is just that simple. To hold a teacher accountable for this student’s scores on a standardized test (when the student more than likely just guesses or even refuses to finish the test) is unconscionable and plain outright stupid. The teacher needs to be freed up and flexible so that she or he can figure out a way to reach the unmotivated student. But, with teachers teaching in straight-jackets and being forced to used mindless but mandated cookie-cutter methods to teach, then there is no hope to reach the unmotivated student. (c) MACE, February 12, 2010.
cheating hurts
February 12th, 2010
11:25 am
Clayton Couny Schools has its share of problems, but cheating is not one of them. If Dr. Hall is allowed to continue in her position, that will be a travesty of justice. If APS is not placed on probation, that will be a travesty of justice as well. I cannot fathom the state sweeping this ordeal under the rug.
JD
February 12th, 2010
11:29 am
This makes me mad. Schools are cheating because they have to. Why do you always hear about schools in lesser privelaged areas having to do stuff like this? Is it because those school systems just happen to hire bad administrators?
Of course not! To be quite blunt, several kids in Dekalb county have more obstacles holding them back from passing these dumb CRCTs. Poor home lives produce kids who are more and more apathetic about school. So now we’re making them take a test over stuff that they won’t learn? And if (when) they don’t pass, we’re going to punish the schools to make matters worse? It’s no wonder administrators are forced to cheat.
A lot of things need to change, and it starts with Cathy Cox and her standards based learning.
JD
February 12th, 2010
11:30 am
Why do you always hear about schools in lesser privelaged areas having to do stuff like this? Is it because those school systems just happen to hire bad administrators?
Of course not! To be quite honest, several kids in Dekalb county have more obstacles holding them back from passing these dumb CRCTs. Poor home lives produce kids who are more and more apathetic about school. So now we’re making them take a test over stuff that they won’t learn? And if (when) they don’t pass, we’re going to punish the schools to make matters worse?
A lot of things need to change, and it starts with Cathy Cox and her standards based learning.
Tired of hearing it
February 12th, 2010
11:33 am
YardDawg, you’re right. These low income kids are ruining it for everyone else because of the families they are born into . Why don’t we just tell them to stay home since they have no future anyway and they’re just bringing everyone else down.
retired teacher, Benny
February 12th, 2010
11:34 am
you have touched only the “tip of the iceberg” investigating the CRCT. I retired early from high school because of the cheating on the GHSGT, skewing numbers to help the drop out rate look better, and underfunding of vocational education because of the focus on these numbers. A couple of bloggers have it right, when non educators place non attainable goals on administrators and teachers what do you expect them to do? It may not be the right thing to do ethically, but when crunch time comes,as evidenced by this scandal, ethics are the last thing considered.
I_Teach
February 12th, 2010
11:36 am
Henry County had MAP until this year; did away with it for their own PASS tests…which are horribly written and turned out to be more costly than MAP. Additionally they do not have nationally normed standards..so we’re comparing ourselves to other HCPS schools. Useless.
Until the pressure is off for the all important CRCT-also horribly written, crappy tests-is removed, you will see people doing unethical, illegal things if they fear for their job.
I have never cheated, and won’t. That doesn’t mean I don’t understand the fear NCLB has put into schools/admins/teachers. When one test will determine whether a school meets AYP..well, expect more.
There is a comprehensive list of schools with more than 7% wtr answers…in every county..(Including Henry and Clayton). When people fear that their jobs are in jeopardy..well…
Additionally-even if every child passed the CRCT, a school can still fail-due to absences. It is draconian measures such as these that instill fear…If ONE subgroup fails to meet standards, the ENTIRE SCHOOL FAILS.
Does this make sense to anyone??????? This unfairly punishes schools with subgroups….! (Esp. special ed…because those kids DO have to pass! Even if they can’t due to their disability).
Enough with high-stakes testing. It has failed miserably. As NCLB has…
cherokeemom
February 12th, 2010
11:38 am
Here’s what happened to us and I’m not exaggerating any of it. We moved here in 2004 and immediately was given custody of my husbands son. He was known to have behavioral issues but we thought he was pretty sharp. He went to Middle School on the SST/504 program. He did miserably, but he passed the CRCT’s for 7th grade. By 8th grade we were begging for a psycho-educational eval. This tests tells you if your child has a learning disability. They refused, said he had average intelligence with average ability. We couldn’t afford the test. He continued to do miserably and was “placed” in 9th grade, not promoted. He failed his entire freshman year. He ended up in a treatment facility for a couple of weeks. They tested him and found out that he was mildly retarded with severe processing deficiencies and had a 5th grade reading ability! But he passed the CRCT! We sent him to a private, non-religious, boarding school where he is thriving academically.
Along comes our youngest child. She enters middle school and fails the CRCT for Math and Reading in the 7th grade. I say, can’t be right, she’s smart as a tack. They put her in remedial Math and Reading for 8th grade. They never looked at her testing trends over the previous four years that demonstrated an issue with Math but high marks in Reading. She is emotionally devestated to be in the remedial reading class but admits she has issues in Math. It’s the end of 8th grade. She fails the CRCT in Math again. They send her to onsite tutoring. She’s in 6 hours of private tutoring per week for the entire last semester of school. She retakes the CRCT in Math, she fails again. The school wants to HOLD HER BACK! I say, absolutely not! She needs an IEP. They say, well she hasn’t gone through all the steps yet, she’s not eligible. So, that summer, we spend 1500 dollars to have a psycho-educational test done. It demonstrates a pronounced learning disability in Math yet she is GIFTED in reading, verbal comprehension, language, listening, etc.
Now she’s a freshman with an IEP for Math Disability. The school says, oh, sorry, she has to drop out of orchestra if she wants to take foreign language to be eligible for a four year college because she has to have the Math Support class in order to make it through Math. We say, hey lets take Spanish online through Georgia Virtual School, the county says, sorry can’t take a class that we offer on campus! And by the way, maybe she should look at a technical college?
The CRCT does not reflect, in any measurable and accurate way, the differences between children’s learning styles, test taking abilities and apptitude. All it did for my family was pigeon whole two of my children into the absolutely wrong categories! The schools had all the standardized test scores from the IOWA Basics from all the previous years, yet no one bothered to look at them. Had they, they would have noticed that my son had been struggling for years in reading and science. They would have seen that my daughter consistently scored above average in reading, science, social studies, etc, but fell off the charts in Math. Thank God that I’m a proactive and involved parent. Imagine all those kids out there who’s parent’s work two jobs just to make ends meet and figure if the schools not calling it’s good news! Only to find out later, maybe when it’s too late, that their child had a serious learning issue.
So for my daughters Sophomore year, she will be going to a private day school as well. I’m blessed to be able to afford this alternative for her education, but I recognize that many are not and until the state recognizes that the CRCT is not only flawed in it’s ability to discern a students strengths and weaknesses but that it also ties the hands of our educators to help those who need it most, Georgia will continue to fail it’s student population time and time again.
I_Teach
February 12th, 2010
11:38 am
John Trotter. The less you say the better. Many of us remember your EXTREMELY disruptive presence in CCPS…and if you follow the lines? You can be linked to the loss of accreditation…
Mike
February 12th, 2010
11:40 am
Is this the kids’ fault, the teachers’ fault or is it the system? When you put all your marbles on the outcome of these tests, this is what you get. My wife got out of teaching because of this. The system has got to change.
Vince
February 12th, 2010
11:41 am
Okay….a different viewpoint. Certainly it is not okay to cheat or change students’ answers but consider what NCLB requires of administrators and students.
Each April, schools must test students whose IQ’s are as low as 55….some even lower. These students will never attain grade level scores yet the reputations, pay and job security of the teachers and administrators depends on how these students perform on the CRCT.
Each April, schools must test students who do not speak English. Sure they are give a one year reprieve in Reading and Language Arts but they still must take the math part of the CRCT….and it is almost all word problems.
Those of you who criticize educators who changed answers consider this for just a moment: What would you do if you were required to do something truly impossible in your job setting. Let’s say….cure cancer in five years. Your reputation, pay, etc all depended on you accomplishing this impossible feat.
What would you do?
NCLB requires teachers to cure cognitive difficulties within a 12 year span. This is something medical science hasn’t been able to do in over 200 years.
People always look at me in amazement when I tell them that every April I must place a CRCT in front of many students who cannot read, speak or even hold a pencil. These students all demonstrate an IQ in the 60’s. We will keep working to get them to pass and be at grade level by 2013….but it ain’t looking good.
I_Teach
February 12th, 2010
11:42 am
Henry replaced MAP due to its expense. Replaced it with their own PASS benchmarks. Awful tests. Ridiculous. And, as it turns out, only compares us with other Henry schools…but the kicker?
Turns out it costs more than MAP. And Henry is now left with NO nationally normed tests.
Is anyone aware that attendance can determine whether a school makes ayp? Of if ONE too many students in a subgroup-which varies from school to school-fails, the entire SCHOOL fails?
Does this, or any part of the testing issue-make sense to anyone?
Marcia
February 12th, 2010
11:42 am
Check out Roger Hines for State School Superintendent.
http://www.viddler.com/explore/magnumpr/videos/25/
An advocate for public education change & choice
February 12th, 2010
11:45 am
Given the extreme value placed on standardized test scores its little wonder that school adminstrators from the district office down to the classroom feel the pressure to make miracles happen. On the one hand you have school districts who balk at anything that provides families real choice and competition within the public education arena. On the other hand its consistantly manifested that public education status quo is broken and requires some progressive ideas brought forth in order to deliver the quality service offering that parents are thirsting for. The reports from yesterday are very disheartening. APS as a district seems on the surface to be alot of smoke and mirrors. THe same old retoric will not cut it this time. Dr. Hall will have to speak to this issue with more than the usual platitudes. The implications are quite damaging for an Superindendant so lauded as being one of the best in the country.
Echo
February 12th, 2010
11:46 am
Seems like it is administrators who are doing the actual “cheating”, not teachers. I’m pretty certain that there are individual teachers out there who are also cheating though. Part of the reason for the cheating is admin. bonuses are tied to test scores & AYP, as well as promotions and demotions. So after all this is there anyone out there who still thinks “pay for performance” as offered by Sonny is a good idea?
And again someone on the \showed their ignorance by stating that the school personnel are “protected by the union”…THERE ARE NO UNIONS!
Vince
February 12th, 2010
12:02 pm
YardDawg…
Homeschooling isn’t the answer. I cannot tell you how many “homeschooled” students have entered our school….and inevitably they are two or three years behind us.
I won’t even go into the odd difficulties presented by these same students as far as their lack of social skills. I can ALWAYS pick homeschooled students out in a crowd. And that’s not a good thing.
MS Man
February 12th, 2010
12:12 pm
@I_Teach – PASS wasn’t supposed to cost more than MAP. Where are you getting your figures? MAP cost over $300,000 for the the three years Henry had it. How much has PASS cost?
E. Cobb Parent
February 12th, 2010
12:13 pm
The AJC had uncovered a symptom of a much larger issue. Attentive parent and few others have the right thoughts. If APS and others across the state would use sound curriculum and teach the kids we would not have to worry about the cheating scandal; there would be no need to cheat. We must get rid of the inquiry based math and guided reading programs and return to what works. The true culprit in all of this is Kathy Cox with her extrememly weak curriculum. Now let’s see the AJC do some true investigative reporting on GA’s curriculum.
SallyB
February 12th, 2010
12:14 pm
TWO TRUTHS:
{1} THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR CHEATING….Try as you may, you can only give REASONS that some feel this particular type of cheating is not so bad…or is to be expected because of circumstances. Still. REASONS do not make it EXCUSABLE.
{2} THere are some students who simply will not be able to pass these tests within the time frame given, and some who will NEVER be able to pass.
{This says more about the entity[ies] requiring the tests than it does about the students who cannot pass}
The ONLY useful tests in this situation are PRE tests given to students before instruction and POST tests given TO THAT SAME STUDENT….after instruction. These results would give not only a picture of the child’s progress, but also of the teacher’s overall effectiveness.
TEACHER’S USUALLY DO NOT HAVE ANY RESERVATIONS ABOUT THIS TYPE OF TESTING.
.
Dr. Trotter , whatever else we may know about him and MACE, is IMO totally correct in his analysis @ 11;23.
Echo
February 12th, 2010
12:25 pm
@ SallyB…you are correct! Every teacher I know (including myself) are ALL FOR pre-post testing. But the test must be valid and reliable, no more poorly written questions or “trivia” or “gotcha” type questions. If they wanted to base my pay on the performance of students who were in my class from start to finish and didn’t miss a significant amount of time from my class; I would JUMP all over that opportunity! I wouldn’t even worry about the performance of my special education students as I am sure they would make gains on the test. I seriously doubt anyone in the position to make this happen is listening though.
A Mad Parent
February 12th, 2010
12:33 pm
A flawed test and a flawed state education system. Stop focusing on the superintendents, principals, and teachers who are trying to meet federal (NCLB is a joke) standards. I wonder why the social studies results were thrown out statewide when nobody could pass it awhile back? A lot of excuses so the failings of the state education system would not exposed.
What this scandal basically says to a certain sector of the population is that no matter what reforms the Georgia Department of Education or your school adopts, it’s not going to help your child pass this test. If that’s the case, why use it? There are better and truer assessments out there that don’t require teachers to teach to the test, but allows them to teach period. But as long as this state continues to elect the same leadership year end and year out, it will never happen.
Warrior Woman
February 12th, 2010
12:34 pm
@ Teacher – the “root cause” of the cheating is unethical teachers and/or administrators. Making excuses for this unacceptable behavior only enables the unethical.
YardDawg
February 12th, 2010
12:42 pm
‘Tired of hearing it’ you miss the point completely.
Although I disagree with some of what Dr. Trotter says above, I do agree with his assertion that motivation is the driver behind success or failure.
Parent Accountability
February 12th, 2010
12:44 pm
Apathetic parents have ruined public schools. Teachers are being forced to teach the students what parents should teach their children. We have to teach rules of etiquette, counsel, provide dental care, eyeglasses, and free breakfast and lunch. What are parents accountable for besides having children? In most inner city areas, they don’t even buy their children basic supplies like paper and pencils. It is enough to make you want to holler. Bloggers who insist on saying that true comments are racist comments have their heads buried under the sand. The fact of the matter is that some parents are pathetic. They need to be held accountable for their children’s actions and education. Teachers are working hard, in spite of the obstacles to teach their children. We spend what little money we have to ensure that students get a quality education. We work long hours preparing meaningful lessons. It wouldn’t be necessary to have high stakes test like the CRCT if parents did their jobs.
Dr. John Trotter
February 12th, 2010
12:52 pm
Hey “I_Teach,” just for the fun of it, how ’bout informing us of one concrete thing that I personally did to cost Clayton County accreditation. I’ll admit that I helped a few bozos get elected to the different Clayton County school boards in the past, just as I helped a few bozos get elected to many other positions in Clayton and other counties. Not all were bozos, but some definitely were…like Eldrin Bell. I supose that some would say that I was Bell’s main weapon in his campaign for Commission Chairman in Clayton County in 2004. Most of the time, when the campaigns are over, I don’t even deal with the people any more. There are exceptions to the rule. But, I don’t recall ever personally serving on the Clayton County Board of Education or casting a single vote on any issue. Hey, I think that I might get involved in the school board races in DeKalb County this year. If DeKalb County loses accreditation, I will be glad to be blamed for that also. It’s quite fun…when you are a free man. I love being free. Atlanta needs some shaking up also, I’ll be glad to take the blame for its loss of accreditation also. Gotta run to lunch. O’Charley’s today!
Corey
February 12th, 2010
12:58 pm
Overheard on a MARTA train: A father said he was heart brokent because his son in middle school lost interest in playing sports. The father was not heart broken because his son no longer had an interest in studying hard to become an engineer, doctor, architect etc. but sports. Hearing that, I was truly heart broken. The parents in Clayton County who put pressure on the principal who put pressure on the teacher to change a star athelete’s grade in literature so he could play football and get picked by Ole Miss; my heart is now shattered.
Corey
February 12th, 2010
1:02 pm
My fellow black brothers and sisters, there are too many big azz elephants in the room for us to keep ignoring. I have faith that my meager contriibutions to Ron Clark’s Academy monthly will reap huge benefits in the future. Have a nice day.
Tired of hearing it
February 12th, 2010
1:09 pm
YardDawg, no I didn’t miss the supposed point at all. I do understand about motivation. But we are talking about children! 3rd graders that have to pass a portion of this test. Are you saying they should be responsible for making sure they pass? That they should be motivated, at the age 8 or 9, to be sure they pass the CRCT? Of course not. That shouldn’t be their reason for being in school. Yes, the parents should be accountable. But sadly, that isn’t always the case. And unfortunately that will never change. There will always be people who don’t accept responsibility for the well being of their chuldren. Which is exactly why this system of AYP and standardized testing is such a failure. It punishes the wrong people. Should an entire school, or school district be punished because they are in a low income area where many parents aren’t helping their children in school? Should the teachers and administrators be punished? I see how hard they work, but there is only so much they can do.
YardDawg
February 12th, 2010
1:16 pm
Vince, read and then try and comprehend the comment and don’t just jump to conclusions. There is a saying about those that make assumptions.
I used homeschooling as an example, not the point of my comments. But if I did want to advocate homeschooling as the answer, which I clearly did not, then I would say to you that every study I could locate proved that homeschooled students score higher on both the SAT and ACT. But knowing your thought process, you would probably say those tests are biased and no standardized test is a good measure of academic performance.
Do you know the main reasons educators (like yourself) cite as negatives of homeschooling: Inadequate standards of academic quality (sounds like standardization to me); Reduced funding for public schools (money); Lack of socialization with peers of different ethnic and religious backgrounds; The potential for development of religious or social extremism; Children sheltered from mainstream society, or denied opportunities that are their right, such as social development; Potential for development of parallel societies that do not fit into standards of citizenship and the community.
The arguments are always about money and fear. Heck you made the same arguments in your post.
But back to my point, it is student motivation. Not much a teacher, test or administration can do about it. It begins and ends at home. How do you solve the problem, I don’t know, maybe making alternatives outside the government schools system an affordable choice for the economically challenged. But that would involve money and power being siphoned off, and we know what a hornets nest that stirs up.
An advocate for public education change & choice
February 12th, 2010
1:18 pm
@ Parent Accountability & Corey: There is no question that parents bear some brunt of the responsiblity of the state of things. What it all boils down to is that we don’t do what it takes to build institutions within our communities any more. There is no one particular approach thats going to work for every child which is why those truely dedicated educators get the utmost respect from me. Ron Clark is but an example of others in both the public & private sector who are throwing away the old rule book and introducing more progressive ideas to prepare young minds for the future in front of them.
An advocate for public education change & choice
February 12th, 2010
1:24 pm
@ YardDawg: Trust that its money that drives the machine. Anything that suggests school districts are no longer going to be able to aimply suck up the resources of the tax-base no matter how dismal the academic track record meets with FIERCE OPPOSITION !! And that includes the teachers unions who at times fight harder to perserve the status quo than the school districts do.
PsychMom
February 12th, 2010
1:37 pm
Testing is a fact of life. We need it. We need to know of our child is learning, retaining, moving forward. But I agree with the folks who say we need to look at an individual over time and the progress he or she is making based on where he or she started out. The kids sure do get tested a lot here- and I have yet to see if they are good or bad because my children haven’t taken the CRCTs yet. But, I evaluate my own kids’ achievement every 6 months to see what they are making gains on. Not every parent knows how to do that. I wish they did. And I wish all parents knew how to advocate for their child and for good teachers. Because there are lots of good teachers out there.
a [parent
February 12th, 2010
1:42 pm
Leave it alone! Principal Mr. James Berry is a real Man, admitted his wrong doing and accept the consequences. APS shpold do the same
a [parent
February 12th, 2010
1:43 pm
Correction= APS Should do the same!
YardDawg
February 12th, 2010
1:48 pm
‘tired’ how is more money going to solve the problem? making educational choices, outside the government system, available and affordable to the economically disadvantaged is probably the best solution.
Blackberry Curve
February 12th, 2010
1:49 pm
Totally agree with the comments made earlier by John Trotter. Dr. Trotter bravely states what is going on in our schools. I wish others would do the same.
Tired of hearing it
February 12th, 2010
2:05 pm
YardDawg, I have a hard beleiving that the parents who can’t help their kids thrive the public school around the corner are going to take the time to do the research and pick a quality “alternative”. What is it that you are suggesting would be a good choice for these lower income families? What is a better alternative for them then public school? Do you just want them out of the public school system or do you believe that they can not get a quality education in a public school?
And how “affordable” can any quality education be? Where are they going to get the money to pay for an alternative to public school?
Vince
February 12th, 2010
2:10 pm
No, my opposition to homeschooling has nothing to do with money. It only has to do with people bringing homeschooled kids back into the public schools and then wondering why they are so far behind. Nothing else.
Matt and Jack's Mom
February 12th, 2010
2:10 pm
Just keep throwing money at the problem, that is your answer. Along with either no standardized test or the ‘proper’ standardized tests.
Where are the overwhelming majority of these cheating examples? In areas that are economically challenged. You seem like a smart person, do you think there is the same level of parental involvement in those areas or say in east Cobb, Fayette Co., Avondale?
Simple question, if money is the answer, then why does a school district in one part of the state out perform a school district in another part of the state? I couldn’t be money, as they both have similiar funding.
This is in response to the above posting by Yard Dawg. To answer your questions, just because a school is located in an economically disadvantaged area does not mean that they have low parental involvement. In fact, I am teaching in a school in such an area and I have more parent participation in this school than the last school in Cobb. Based upon all of the grammatical errors in your posting and lack of knowledge, it seems as if you have had very limited education. The students in East Cobb or North Fulton are no different from the students inside of the perimeter. I suggest that you put down the mouse and pick up a book and read.
YardDawg
February 12th, 2010
2:31 pm
Vince, statistics prove your ‘real world’ experience wrong.
Tired, why don’t we fund alternatives for the ecomonically challenged? (see Wash, DC – where despite all the negativity thrown at that project every parent who was lucky enough to have their child participate loved the alternative and was angry when the funding was halted by the democrats in Congress) or (see Ron Clark Academy – from the people participating in this forum is seen as a successful alternative) or (see the girls charter school in Gwinnett – again a successful program that has seen its funding threatened by those in power). It is all about power and money for the ‘old school’ guard.
I’m out; off to play in the snow.
Echo
February 12th, 2010
2:33 pm
@ an advocate, if you were really “an advocate” you would know there are NO TEACHER OR EDUCATIONAL UNIONS IN GEORGIA! Why do we keep having to repeat this? Some of the folks posting on this blog are so clueless as to the REAL issues. Keep kidding yourselves and blaming some fictional “union” that you think is causing ALL the problems in the schools in Georgia.
ScienceTeacher671
February 12th, 2010
5:53 pm
“With just a glance at the answer sheets, Atherton Elementary School Principal James Berry and Assistant Principal Doretha Alexander saw they were in trouble.”
Glance, my hind foot!
You can’t “glance” at answer sheets and tell you’re in trouble, unless said answer sheets are blank – you’d have to read the test, maybe even make your own answer sheets, and then spend some time comparing….
Change our Focus
February 12th, 2010
6:00 pm
States around our nation adopt achievement standards and tests precisely so that teachers will focus more on the knowledge and skills that the tests measure. Whether this is a problem depends partly on how effective the tests are, how well the tests are administered and monitored in the administration process, and partly on how well the students were being taught before.
Not all standardized tests are unsatisfactory. Some, such as those requiring long and short answers, performance tasks and writing samples provide more authentic assessments than do those with multiple-choice answers. Tests that measure complex concepts and extended reasoning encourage stimulating instruction. Many states require performance based tests which are more costly to administer and more time intensive in scoring. One of the problems with the CRCT is that it is multiple-choice and does not provide an accurate measure of the students’ knowledge and skills as would be demonstrated in performance tasks.
How many students have we all observed simply bubble in an answer, complete the test quickly and quietly lie their head down? How many times have we observed these same students getting lucky and receiving a high score? On the other hand, how many students have we observed getting their bubbles confused and not scoring well on the test despite their knowledge of the subject matter? Sadly, it appears that our state of Georgia also has administrative problems with the bubble in, erase the bubble, replace the bubble. This would not be easily accomplished with performance based assessments.
The way in which the results are reported and used also makes a critical difference. Georgia places emphasis on the Pass/Fail of the state test. Many states report learning gains in addition to the test scores for each student annually. Graphs of the gains are reviewed in the beginning of the school year and the data is disaggregated. Parents are given copies of the graphs and the explanation of the tests are part of the information to the parents. Schools and teachers are accountable for student gains. This allows all students to be given the opportunity to progress versus “pass or fail” a test. If Georgia had a system to report learning gains, there would be greater opportunities for teachers to “teach” versus “teach a test.” Test irregularities are also more easily detected.
High-stakes testing presumes that you can bring the bottom up, but it’s ludicrous if you don’t provide resources and support. Our schools need lower class sizes and increased instructional time, especially for high needs students. But quality costs money. We all know about the state of affairs with our educational budgets around our state…..
Nevertheless, as research indicates, high stakes testing has narrowed the achievement gap. The key in effective testing is the type of test, how the test is administered, and the resources that are in place to teach all students effectively. In addition, teachers should be given the freedom to teach students based on their needs versus teaching students to memorize the specific standards for a test.
Accountability for educational outcomes should be a shared responsibility of states, school districts, public officials, educators, parents, and students.
Maude
February 12th, 2010
6:01 pm
I never thought I would agree with Dr. Trotter or even for that matter address him as Dr. Trotter, however, Dr. Trotter this time you are right! Everyone please read Dr. Trotter’s post.
SallyB
February 12th, 2010
7:31 pm
@ECHO…”.I seriously doubt anyone in the position to make this happen is listening though.”
AND SO WE GET TO THE CRUX OF THE PROBLEM…….”THEY”"……do not listen to the teachers…. who are actually the only ones who actually can make contributions to solve these problems. //…
The “Worker Bees”……who know what works and what does not work…who know which tests provide useful information and which are fluff.
And on we go….so sad, so sad….
catlady
February 12th, 2010
7:33 pm
What I have a hard time with is how they denied, denied, thatthey had done anything wrong. And their supervisor denied that they had done anything.
Yet, it was all LIES.
And the asst principal wants to say it wasn’t her fault?
harriet
February 12th, 2010
9:08 pm
Maureen,
I would like to follow through with your doctor testing – teacher testing analogy.
Let’s suppose a doctor diagnoses a substantial number of patients with heart disease after she reviews their tests (very true in the U.S.). Let’s suppose many of those patients smoke, are obese, and don’t exercise (probably also true). She prescribes medication, tells them to exercise, and warns them they must lose weight.
Some of these patients comply, but many of them skip their medications, eat whatever they want and continue smoking.
Three months later they come back and take their follow-up tests. A high number of them have not improved at all.
Do we penalize the doctor? After all, the before and after testing has not shown the improvement we would like, and the doctor should be able to produce improvement in a defined percentage of her patients.
If you say doctors use tests and so do teachers, then we must measure what doctors accomplish in percentages as well as what teachers accomplish using percentages. We must measure doctors in how many people they cure regardless if their patients follow the doctors orders. We must not pay doctors if they do not cure a certain percentage of their patients.
How about doctors that work in low income areas where the patients are notoriously non-compliant? Should we hold doctors feet to the fire because they do not change patients’ behaviors (i.e. become medication compliant, lose weight, and stop smoking) that will reduce their heart disease?
What if we tied doctor’s compensation to her ability to make patients compliant. Do you think that would improve care in the U.S? Do you think that would make more people want to be doctors?
Lest you say the doctor doesn’t see her patients as much as a teacher sees her pupils, remember that the doctor deals with life and death issues, an area that takes precedence over all other aspects of the person’s life.
Testing students is a complex issue. Just wanted to point out that comparing teachers and doctors is not really a valid comparison.
Parent of 2 DCSS Children
February 12th, 2010
9:21 pm
I think the system is definitely flawed! Too much pressure is placed on the school administrators, teachers and students regarding standardized testing. As a parent of a third grader I can attest to the stress that he as well as our family is already experiencing from the impending test. In October my son started CRCT test prep classes on Tuesdays after school. I did the same thing for my other son who is in High School. Should they have to do extra test preparation, no. However, as their parent it is my responsibility to ensure their educational success. Whether its a test prep class or the online prep that is provided we cannot leave our children’s education soley to the school system. Yes, the administrators were clearly wrong for their actions and their integrity has definitely been compromised. Their actions do not set a good example for our children however well their intentions may have been. I believe they felt the end results justified their mean. Was it right, no but neither is speeding when we are late for work or some other appointment or event. What message does that send to our children?? There are obviously legal ramifications for both illegal acts. I don’t think we should judge their administrators so harshly. Our own integrity comes into question on a daily basis and honestly how many of us pass the test 100% of the time?
arnold
February 12th, 2010
9:34 pm
I agree with Harriet. Except I would take it a step further.
“No one complains about testing in medicine when they are sick. Yes, you trust your doctor’s evaluations that you have a serious disease. but you undergo the tests to verify the doctor’s observations and professional judgment.”
How many of you patients out there look at your doctors tests and question his judgment? If you’re undergoing cancer treatments for example, do you personally read through pages pages of tests, discuss the results with the doctor, and decide he is doing a great job (or not) based on the results of your tests? Do his colleagues or supervisors read through your tests and let you know if your doctor is curing you or not? Do you go to a number of other doctors and ask them to evaluate and second guess your doctor? The last time I had a family member in the hospital I don’t remember asking to sit for 30 or 40 minutes with the doctor while he discussed medical tests and then questioned and challenged him on the test results.
The doctor testing patients and teacher testing students is definitely a flawed analogy. Please use another one.