New regional charter school: Not a black/white issue
In fighting approval of a regional charter school, southwest Georgia superintendents allege that the Pataula Charter Academy would signal a return to the era in Georgia when blacks and whites attended different schools.
The debate is re-opening old wounds of race and disparate education in districts still under court desegregation orders
One of seven charter schools — public schools that operate with greater autonomy in exchange for greater accountability — approved by a new state commission, Pataula plans to open in the fall as a regional public k-8 school. It will enroll 440 students from Randolph, Calhoun, Early, Clay and Baker counties. Some districts now want the state Board of Education to stop Pataula.
Along with drawing from the majority black schools in the region, Pataula is attracting students from two private academies, which are virtually all-white.
“Initially, you will see more urgency on the side of private school parents who are tired of paying tuition,” said Ben Dismukes, a Pataula founder and himself the parent of two private-school students.
The interest of private school parents has sparked worries that Pataula is a seg academy posing as a public charter school. To counter the innuendo that it is a “white school,” Pataula has held lotteries for slots in the grades that were oversubscribed and encouraged all families to apply .
“For whatever reason — and it probably goes back to long before charter schools and long before even my time growing up in this area — trust has to be re-established between the African-American and white communities when it comes to education,” said Dismukes.
Although the school systems contend that Pataula will increase segregation, many nearby schools are far from integrated. Out of 756 students in k-8, Randolph County has 694 blacks and 62 whites
In a letter to the state school board opposing Pataula, Randolph board attorney Tommy Coleman predicted the charter will siphon those few white students: “It is almost a certainty that the students who will be drawn from Randolph County will be white, and not black.”
Since charter schools are not required to provide bus transportation, Randolph says fewer poor minority parents will consider the school. (Pataula is now thinking about contracting transportation or buying its own vans.)
And, in a clear illustration of why race relations remain strained, the Randolph board attorney also wrote that black families won’t like the lack of athletics at Pataula. “There is no present plan for athletics. Thus, for students who are drawn to athletics, as are black students, there is no attraction,” said Coleman.
“After reading that, every African American parent in Randolph County would likely support more school options,” said Ben Scafidi, chairman of the Georgia Charter Schools Commission.
“The charge of segregation is routinely leveled against charter schools. Yet, year after year, according to the Georgia Department of Education, charter schools are more diverse, serve more disadvantaged students, and have higher student achievement than public schools overall,” said Scafidi. “Based on the wonderful principal they have hired, the energetic and eager governing board, and the academic need in that area… we have confidence they will establish a strong school.”
But will Pataula weaken other schools in the region?
Early County Superintendent Kenneth Hall said he wishes Pataula would have targeted students who weren’t faring well in traditional classrooms. So far, the only students in his district — which had all three of its schools make AYP this year — considering Pataula are doing well, he said.
Because he suspects most of Pataula’s enrollment will be former private school students, Early will pay out per-pupil costs it never had before, said Hall. Charter schools get not only state dollars for each student but the funds raised from local taxes as well.
“But my real concern is not the money,” Hall said. “It’s the education quality. What we need to be doing in this community is working together to improve opportunities for all students rather than dividing our resources and people and spreading them too thin.”
Kelly Cadman of the Georgia Charter School Association pointed out that the Pataula’s backers include local teachers.
“To stand up and do something different is a humongous risk for these teachers,” she said. “These are small, rural counties, and there is no place else for them to go and work.
“They see that people are moving out, they can’t attract industry and the area is dying. They believe if they can do something about education, it will have a broader impact for the entire region.”
I wrote this column for my Monday education page, but am posting here earlier. In print, I am confined by space, so I wanted to add some comments here that I could not accommodate in my print column.
One of the people I interviewed was Andrew Broy, the soon-to-be-departing charter school expert for DOE. He is taking a similar post in Illinois. One point that Broy made was that these tensions between Pataula and the districts are not unusual, and will subside with time. He cited a charter school in Chatham County that is now on very good terms with the board of ed there.
But he agreed that formal preliminary discussions with the districts probably would have helped. The state does not require charters spanning five counties to officially meet with the local boards and superintendents in affected districts. Perhaps, it should, Broy said. I agree. This is not news that the districts should have read in the Albany Herald.
Broy said the charter will bring more private school students back to the public system, as did the state’s virtual school. (It brought both private and homeschoolers back on the rolls as public school students, which increased costs.)
But he does not see that as a negative. (He understood the districts’ position since they are going to be paying out new monies for kids who were in private schools at a time when their budgets are in terrible shape.)
This is one of those issues where both sides have valid points. The local superintendents are trying hard to improve their systems and then they find out the state has approved a school that will draw some of their best students and cost them additional dollars as well, But, if a segment of parents have given up on the schools and now have found a way back, we should recognize that as a positive thing for public education.
I am going to try and post the protest letter from Randolph so you can read the district’s reasons in depth for opposing the charter school. Check back as I am on my ancient home computer and everything takes five times as long and then the computer shuts down and I have to scream for 1o minutes and start again.
I would love your views on this topic.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Guides
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2011 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
118 comments Add your comment
Tony
February 6th, 2010
10:26 am
If charter schools and public schools are to compete on equal footing, then charters must be required to provide transportation for students and they must be required to accept all students who come to them. Without these two requirements, then charter schools are exclusive schools operating under the guise of choice.
Maureen Downey
February 6th, 2010
10:35 am
Tony, Transportation will have to be added to the law as I don’t think most local systems will volunteer to provide it to charters approved over their objections by a state board. Do you see that ever happening?
The issue of taking all comers is a problem as charters only have limited space so at some point they reach capacity and have to decline kids. The real issue is how a new charter gets out the word and who applies. The challenge for a regional charter is that it has many, many communities to reach. Since charters are often filled by word of mouth, enrollment can depend on which communities are aware of the school and talking about it.
Maureen
catlady
February 6th, 2010
11:54 am
Ms. Dwoney: “Regular schools” also face space problems but have to accomodate anyone who shows up, so that is a specious objection. Charter schools should have to do what the rest of schools do: cram ‘em in and make the best of it (if they want state and local money). You are completely right about getting the word out. It can be done so selectively that “unwanted” students don’t hear about it until the slots are full (antoher reason they should have to take all comers, no matter how many, and the problems these comers bring with them) Charter schools already draw among the most motivated, just by the cachet of their names, and advantage “regular” schools don’t have.
I am amazed by the statement atributed to the attorney about black kids and athleics. Someone put a muzzle on him!
The bottom line is that charter schools CAN have different rules for administration or instruction, but they should not be able to pick and choose their students by not offering transportation, or saying they are “full”, or any of the other ruses used to exclude minority or handicapped students!
Tony
February 6th, 2010
11:56 am
Transportation would have to come from the Charter School’s budget not the local system. We are responsible for providing our own transportation and if the state is going to be allowed to withhold the local tax portion from systems then this includes the funding for transportation which is part of the allotment. As for all students being given equal access, public schools do not have a choice based on enrollment capacity to reject students. Neither can we reject students based on any other qualification or status. This puts charters at an advantage in the context of the so-called competition and choice movement.
One other point about the need to provide transportation is related to the so-called choice option that is touted as a good thing. Students of lower socioeconomic status are the ones who are disqualified from participation in the regional charter school becuase of their lack of transportation and means to support daily trips to and from school. This is one way to exclude a group of students from participation under the guise of offering choice. This would not be an LEA responsibility. It would be the charter’s responsibility.
Maureen Downey
February 6th, 2010
12:02 pm
catlady, I agree with you about cramming kids in but charter schools don’t have the option of sending kids to another school. In my my district, if a local school is full, including trailers, kids arriving after the start of school can and are sent to other schools with more room,
Maureen
Tony
February 6th, 2010
1:05 pm
Maureen, the option of sending kids to another school does not exist in every school district. In my district, for instance, we do not offer such a transfer policy. We do offer a relatively generous school choice option as long as the family provides transportation. Many districts throughout Georgia have so few schools that the “transfer if full” option is completely out of the question.
Catlady, I agree with you about the attorney. Having lived in south Georgia, the racism is so embedded into the communities that I doubt any of the white folk even recognized how ignorant such a statement is. You are also correct about targeting a particular audience when it comes to getting the word out.
Dunwoody Mom
February 6th, 2010
1:22 pm
I said early on that the Charter School movement was nothing more than using public funds to pay for private schools.
Happy Teacher
February 6th, 2010
1:45 pm
As a charter school teacher, I think it is important that we are careful to not paint with too broad a brush here…
The charter I work for provides transportation and we “cram” about 31 kids in each class and this is true across our group of schools.
There is a lot of positive innovation going on in the good charter schools, and just because there are shady charters doesn’t mean the whole movement should be trashed. We should always strive to improve the situation, and as long as we are transparent as possible, I believe the market will work it out. I wish I could say the same for our public schools. Even with so many great public schools at work, there is no mechanism for cleaning out the poor ones like there is in the charter movement.
Techfanplus
February 6th, 2010
1:52 pm
Since tax dollars fund these schools, they should be equally available to all students. Therefore, transportation should be provided. It is interesting that many parents fled public education when intergration came the law. Now, they see a way to return to public education and not face a very highly intergrated population. Charter schools are not public schools in the true sense of the word. I can understand why Boards of Education are very concerned about them.,
Calvin Ruff Ruff
February 6th, 2010
1:58 pm
In my school district, we already have two charter schools, but yet another charter has been granted. Surprisingly, the charter is a FLORIDA based company for profit. I have a real problem with local and Georgia state taxes ultimately going to a private company based outside of this state. Also, “Getting the word out” seems to be a very easy thing to do when you build or place a charter school next door to $350,000 and up properties. This excludes some people right away. Unfortunately, education in this state has moved backwards so swiftly in the last few years. I’m not surprised, however. As the demographics continue to change in this state and nation, very few in the current majority are going to want to continue funding a truly public system for people who don’t look like them, act like them, etc…..
Larry
February 6th, 2010
2:29 pm
Even though Mr. Hall isn’t really concerned about the money (snicker) let’s look at what happened.
Unlike standard charter schools which receive local funding, commission charter schools get only state and federal money, unless local voters approve local funding. Although the state can order such a voter referendum, none have ever been requested. Instead, some state special charter schools re-filed their petitions with the Charter School Commission to get the extra money. In Pataula’s case, they completely bypassed local elected officials to file with the commission. The result is a new school with full state, federal and (equivalent of) local funding, where the taxpayers footing the bills had no input and no way of voicing concerns about how their money was spent at any point in the approval process.
Consider the possibility Tommy Coleman may not be as dull as his statement makes him appear.
Ivy Prep’s attorney recently argued the plaintiff school systems failed to exhaust administrative remedies before filing their lawsuit because they did *not* contest Ivy Prep’s approval at this level. Regardless of intent, these school systems have just eliminated one legal argument from future litigation in which they may be involved.
Charter Facts
February 6th, 2010
2:30 pm
Charter schools are bound by the same enrollment rules as traditional public schools. In fact, every charter school chief administrator would tell you that they would LOVE for the district to provide transportation (and meals, for that matter) to their schools.
But the fact of the matter is most districts opt not to provide transportation as a disincentive to students and parents for attending the charter school.
And the ultimate arguement that anti-charter proponents shy away from is the accountablilty piece. If a charter school is not succeeding, at the end of its charter, it can be shuttered. Name one school district in Georgia that has done that with one of its traditional public schools?
In the case of Pataula, the school’s founders are working hard to erase generations of mistrust by the African American families, mistrust that is, unfortunately, well founded.
Pataula Charter Academy is a school that will be for African American students AND white students, for the well off and the needy. In short, it will be TRUE public school, where all are welcome.
Lee
February 6th, 2010
2:39 pm
If you were a white parent who gave a crap about your children, would you want to send them to a school in rural GA that was 90% black?
If you were the parent of an academically above average black child, would you want to send them to that same school? You know, where they will be accused of “acting white” for getting good grades, exhibiting good manners, proper use of the English language, etc, etc?
Those parents who had the financial means have already pulled their kids out of this little piece of hell on Earth. Sounds like the remainder of parents who actually give a crap about their kids want to do the same.
Those who think this school should be required to “take all comers” know that to do so would introduce a poison pill into the school and doom it to failure.
Maureen Downey
February 6th, 2010
3:08 pm
Lee. Due to housing segregation, metro Atlanta is full of schools that are 90 percent minorities. What makes the difference is whether those schools are also 90 percent poor. But there are those “No excuses” schools that are 90-90-90. They are 90 percent poor, 90 percent minority and 90 percent meeting or exceeding standards.
It can be done.
Maureen
Pompano
February 6th, 2010
3:10 pm
I’ve yet to have anyone provide a coherent explanation to me as to why we tolerate such a rigid one-size-fits-all education model for grades K-12 but magically remove the requirement after High-school graduation.
We tout open choice for college/post-high school education and support that model with grants and loans – even for private colleges. Yet any talk of options for K-12 such as Charter Schools or Vouchers meets adamant opposition. Based on this type of thinking, we should also assign students to a college/university based on their geographic location and not their abilities or interest.
It also aggravates me when Public School officials complain that a particular program will siphon off top students. What right do they have to hold these students hostage in a school when another option may allow them to better develope their potential. We appear dead-set on holding back the top-performers for no other reason than averaging in their test scores with a lower-performing population.
Free Market Educator
February 6th, 2010
3:11 pm
Maureen, my condolences to you on your ancient home computer. I’m enjoying my 6 month old MacBook Pro, which I could afford, thanks to home schooling. Since we don’t spend more than $1000 per child on curriculum/teaching videos and they haven’t been sick in the last 4 years, not to mention generous educator discounts from book stores and Apple, we had the funds to add to our home school computer lab. And of course since we own it, it serves for entertainment purposes as well, further stretching our dollars. As a result, my children have advanced computer/technology skills.
I found it fascinating that the local school administrators ACKNOWLEDGED THE FINANCIAL CONTRIBUTIONS TO FUNDING PUBLIC SCHOOL MADE BY PRIVATE AND HOME SCHOOLERS! Why is it so many on this blog have attacked me for saying that public schools are charity schools. If the wealthy and upper middle use public schools and do not pay more in property taxes than it costs to educate ALL of their children, then the public schools can ONLY operate on deficit spending because the poor are not covered. THERE’S NO FREE LUNCH! The rich want to use public schools to keep the riffraff off the streets and hopefully from breaking into their homes and stealing. Well, somebody has to pay for this babysitting service. Therefore, the wealthy who use the public schools (including charter schools) are exacting charity from the Federal Reserve, China, etc. who make the loans AT INTEREST and charge it to our National Debt, currently at $11,909,829,003,511.75. And let’s not forget Georgia’s looming 2012 deficit of over $3 billion.
My solution once again is to repeal the compulsory attendance laws and throw Northerner Horace Mann’s legacy out the window. The public school experiment is a complete success for the Federal Reserve banksters, but a complete failure for the honest citizens for this country. Private and home schools can provide a superior education debt free. Once the government school infrastructure is dismantled and sold off, the National Debt can be paid down, and usurious borrowing will be brought to an end, at least in the education sector. Defense, Social Security, Medicade, etc. would be next on the list. Parents would be forced to bear the consequences of bad parenting for themselves. Lazy, selfish attitudes would have to to change. We would then know who the true “compassionate conservatives/liberals” are. The truly poor would need help. Perhaps the churches could once again do their job to help the poor and organize privately supported charity schools. Or private schools could offer scholarships. All of these things have been done successfully in the past. Religious freedom will be returned to education. Our nation cannot continue deficit spending and increase the National Debt at the current rate of $1 trillion/per year. At this rate we will soon be a nation of sharecroppers.
Pompano
February 6th, 2010
3:15 pm
Hey Maureen – you also forgot to mention that the Administrators in these profile schools in APS are the ones where cheating on the tests appears to be rampant. So we’re not actually sure if these schools ARE meeting standards.
Maureen Downey
February 6th, 2010
3:20 pm
Pompano, On that issue, stay tuned as the Governor’s Office of Student Achievement will release its review of the next batch of schools with troubling swings in CRCT scores this week. We expect to release that information midweek when the information is presented to the state BOE.
Maureen
Pompano
February 6th, 2010
3:23 pm
Thanks Maureen – appreciate you keeping us updated on that topic.
CharterStarter, too
February 6th, 2010
3:51 pm
Lots of interesting thoughts and points have been brought out. Here are my thoughts…
* Catlady, the law is clear that charters may not practice discriminatory practices. That would include exclusion information about that school to all areas of the community. Of course marketing plays a role – as it does for any entity that is supported by a market, but if a school publishes information in a variety of local outlets, visits churches, holds public meetings all over the place, how can it be their fault if folks don’t sign up? The authorization process in every district I know of includes review of marketing and community based support – schools have been turned down for doing a poor job and not having enough community engagement.
* Catlady, regarding “pack ‘em in…” many charters follow research supporting smaller school models and cultures developed around small school models (and this is their privilege as a charter). If you look at APS, they are also following this lead – to convert their large high schools into smaller ones. The individual who posted and made the comment that the public school system can move kids to other schools is spot on…for those districts who don’t, that is by choice.
* Speaking to funding for charters, specifically transporation and facilities (and within facilities comes the issue with being able to afford a kitchen and nutrition program) – you’re all right. These things impact lots of things including enrollment and school sustainability. And you’re right, it’s hard for charters to offer all of the things that a regular public school does when they are not funded for these basic things. If you look at a charter school’s budget, you can automatically lop off the top 15-20% for facilities. if staffing is 65-75% (which is standard), where’s the money for transporation and the rest of the operational costs? Even if charters want to grow to accommodate more students, facility is often a barrier – and charters have no bonding authority and are at the mercy of the districts or counties to specifically name them on the SPLOST referendum to obtain funds for facilities, trasportation, etc. People in the charter sector would appreciate your support of equitable funding in these areas so the schools CAN be fully accessible to all children without barriers. We’d be delighted if you’d bring this up to a legislator.
* It’s comical to me to hear folks fussing about charters not offering transportation. I am in agreement that there should be funding so they CAN; however, are you all aware that many of the counties who have “choice” options (that aren’t charter) that are district-initiated require students to provide their own transportation? Is this considered “limiting” and potentially “descriminatory” for them? Just some other thoughts for you to ponder.
* The comment made by the Randolph county attorney was in my view both ignorant and quite telling. It is interesting that his sytem is so highly concerned with integration of Patuala – especially considering the fact that the school system from where he comes is 90%ish minority in a 50%ish minority community (wonder what overt efforts he’s making to ensure there is diversity…but I digress…) It seems to me the charter school trying to open will do wonders for bridging gaps in the community and offering an option (make that a FREE public school option) for ALL parents. In this region, opening this school becomes a social justice issue. Seems like the school systems down there would WANT to work with a charter as part of their own plans for raising achievement. Both parties could benefit.
* Parents of private school kids (whereever they are) still pay money into the public school system, even though they aren’t reaping the benefits of the service (by choice, yes, but still…) The fact is that the systems have reaped the benefits of private school parents’ tax dollars without having to expend funds to educate their children. They did not expect the expense of these students coming BACK into the system that they should have been in to begin with – is that the fault of the charter school? What would the school districts do if one of the private schools closed down due to the economy and the private school kids all returned to them? It would be the exact same situation. I’m not saying it isn’t a financial strain that should not be acknowledged (and fixed), but the burden of blame shouldn’t be the charter school’s – it’s how the ratty system is set up (again, get your legislator’s ear if you see this as an issue – we all do as well.)
I always appreciate feedback!
Districts and charters must, must, must collaborate – the health and well-being of a community is dependent upon a solid education of its residents. Charters aren’t the only answer, but they are part of the solution.
Happy Teacher
February 6th, 2010
3:53 pm
FME – Do you really believe that “Parents would be forced to bear the consequences of bad parenting for themselves”?
The children are the ones that would bear the total consequence, for no fault of their own. And consequently, we would all then share the created circumstance.
Sorry to point out that hole in the story you have created.
Not so fast Maureen!
February 6th, 2010
3:53 pm
“They are 90 percent poor, 90 percent minority and 90 percent meeting or exceeding standards.
It can be done.”
Of course it can be done BUT, by and large, it isn’t being done. As much as it pains me to write this the number of 90-90-90 schools that are “meeting or exceeding standards” are quite small compared to their overall number. If you have data showing otherwise could you please post it? And like Lee stated;
“If you were a white parent who gave a crap about your children, would you want to send them to a school in rural GA that was 90% black?” AND “If you were the parent of an academically above average black child, would you want to send them to that same school?”
Humbly awaiting your reply.
Lee
February 6th, 2010
3:54 pm
So Maureen, would YOU send your children to one of those 90-90-90 schools? Really???
Dawgdad
February 6th, 2010
3:55 pm
Education in this country is in sad shape. I grew up in Randolph County. It is a poor predominately Black county. Black voters pretty much determine who is elected. For the past 8-10 years the Board of Education was run by the county school superintendent and the Chariman of the Board of Education. Both were crooks and over 2 million dollars is missing from the budget. Most of the people with money in the county are white and they are tired of very high property taxes because the school board was so poorly run. Finally the voters got tired and voted out some of the crooks on the school board and the new board is trying to right the ship, but as soon as they get it turned around, they will have offended so many people they will be voted out of office and the cronies will be back. It is a real battle between the two groups. There does not seem to be an answer.
I like a proposal I heard John Stossel speak of and that is giving each child a voucher for the amount of money that is spent to educate him or her and let the parents decide where the child attends school. Private, public, public in another county, charter, wherever. Competition would produce better results i believe. I do not think any parent with the means available would willingly let their children attend poor performing schools with just get by teachers. The public schools in SW GA are all poor places for learning. You can’t blame the charter crowd for trying sometime else. They pay enormous property taxes for schools and have no choice except to pay again for private school.
Conservative Black Man
February 6th, 2010
5:03 pm
Of course she wouldn’t Lee.
Marianne
February 6th, 2010
5:06 pm
You’ve got the right idea, Free Market Educator!
Policyguy
February 6th, 2010
5:24 pm
If we learned anything from this post, it is that Randolph County has racist assumptions about whether black students will choose a school for academic reasons. If their school board attorney is willing to voice such ignorance in his official appeal to the state, imagine the assumptions they use to implement policy decisions. Just unbelievable. Further illustration of why students — especially poor students — deserve better public school options. It also seems somewhat disingenuous to criticize charter schools for not providing transportation when neither the state nor local districts provide transportation funding like they do for traditional public schools.
J. Degrees
February 6th, 2010
5:33 pm
Whatever gets our kids to think and become literate is best. Children are being oriented toward testing. This is absolutely absurd. They are human beings and not circus animals to be put on display to see who remembered the most as measured by these standardized tests. Clean, comfortable places of learning that encourage scholarship; every taxpayer should have that for their children. Parents are afraid and test scores can be deceiving. Other criteria have to be included to determine if a place is functioning and meeting the needs of our children.
lala
February 6th, 2010
5:33 pm
Here is a quote from a neighborhood list serve near the new Avondale Museum School.
“Hi, we have noticed a lot of confusing and misinformation about the enrollment process for The Museum School of Avondale Estates. We would greatly appreciate it if you would distribute this info to families in Midway Woods.”
Lots of “confusing… mis-information” about enrollment…. Just the kind of thing to keep out “unwanted” families. Make it confusing enough and only those who are well connected and/or well educated can get through the process. Add that to no transportation and you can create an elite school that all taxpayers support but only a select few can attend.
Bet my bottom dollar that the demographics of Avondale and similar charter schools look nothing like the demographics of the communities where there are located.
GAMom
February 6th, 2010
5:36 pm
@ Not so fast – I find your comments offensive. I am a black parent with a gifted over-acheiver on my hands. But, I CHOOSE to send my kid to a 99% black school (w/ high free lunch #s) in Decatur because it’s a GREAT school. Our neighborhood school is majority white but my daughter’s magnet school outperforms it! At the end of the day, it’s really not about skincolor. The school is full of teachers that WANT to be there and believe in what they are doing–that’s what matters!
Attentive Parent
February 6th, 2010
5:45 pm
Maureen is right that 90/90/90 schools exist.
They get that success rate by using direct instruction to teach reading and math. The lessons are based on the fact content knowledge is the key to reading comprehension, writing ability, and the being able to apply math concepts accurately and sequentially.
Speaking of which, Maureen, are you going to cover that huge ruling out of Seattle yesterday? The briefs make it clear that inquiry learning was worsening the achievement gap and creating equal protection issues under the constitution.
J. Degrees
February 6th, 2010
5:59 pm
90/90/90 schools do exists but is this what we want in today’s world. Teach to the test, teach to the test, teach to the test. Who cares as long as they can pass the test. Wow! Is a charter, smarter? Who cares. You can be a store front hole in the wall. Just chant hari hari Socrates and have high test scores. You will be fine.
J. Degrees
February 6th, 2010
6:02 pm
90/90/90 schools do exist but is this what we want in today’s world? What happened to “Brown vs. Board et al…?” Teach to the test, teach to the test, teach to the test. Who cares as long as they can pass the test. Wow! Is a charter, smarter? Who cares. You can be a store front hole in the wall. Just chant hari hari Socrates and have high test scores. You will be fine.
Enough Already!
February 6th, 2010
6:05 pm
I am deeply offended by the remarks made by Lee and Randolph school board attorney Tommy Coleman. As a black parent of two boys it is attitudes such as these that feed the systemic racism in America and particularly the south. I can now anticipate that I’ll hear that we were “built” to run faster and jump higher.
I guess that’s why a principal had no sympathy for my son when he was taunted and teased by a white student who had just defaced his shirt. The white student was not punished but my son was for pushing the white student while he taunted him.
I guess that’s why an AP had no problem of yanking my son out of his AP class to suspend him for wearing a shirt two days prior because the school needed time to figure out how they could charge him with a violation.
I guess that’s why the night before my youngest son began high school, he asked, “Mom, do you think my teachers will take me seriously?’ When I asked him why he would ask that question, he stated “because I am a black male in all gifted and AP classes.” I gave him a politically correct answer, but inside I was crying because he obviously had felt some of those attitudes.
My oldest is attending college on a full ACADEMIC ride and my youngest is being courted by several Ivy League universities. No matter their accomplishments the world will judge them on whether they’re athletic or ‘acting white’.
Unfortunately, remarks like Lee’s and Randolph school board attorney Tommy Coleman only reinforce the feelings and attitudes that my sons have experienced. What litmus test would Lee impose to ensure that taking all comers would not inject a poison pill into the school and doom it to failure? Would it be similar to the one imposed upon blacks in the south for voting? Is the pill black kids? Would any parent care less about their child’s education if they were average academically?
And to answer Lee’s question; no, I would NEVER send my kid to school in rural Georgia. And not because of the ethnicity of the students, but because of the mindset of the adults.
Free Market Educator
February 6th, 2010
6:20 pm
Happy Teacher,
One of the most common complaints p.s. teachers post here is that they HAVE to accept disruptive kids with poor or no home training. They would love to have them removed from their classes as the efforts of the public schools seem to be of no effect. These children are passed from grade to grade until they drop out. Meanwhile, the ineffective, lazy, often unwed parent, gets a free day and and then bullies the teacher if a negative word is said about her child. Under the current public school system, the child is still not helped and THOUSANDS OF TAX DOLLARS ARE WASTED! The child learns to work the system and has no moral discipline to keep him/her from a life of crime. Under my system, the bad parent would have no relief from this poorly trained child. Perhaps, while the child is still young, the parent would be motivated to change their ways, seek help, repent and turn to God. Christians could show charity to such a family. Of course sharing the Gospel with a child in public school wouldn’t be allowed. If none of this happens, and the parent and child do not change, then they are no worse off than with a public school. However, they would not have squandered taxpayer money. It’s the old fashioned idea of reaping what you sow. The public schools have tried to prevent this law from performing its cleansing work and this nation has suffered for it.
The children are the ones that would bear the total consequence, for no fault of their own. And consequently, we would all then share the created circumstance.
Sorry to point out that hole in the story you have created
Attentive Parent
February 6th, 2010
6:23 pm
The schools I’m describing have no need to teach to a test. That’s why it’s so important to teach reading and math properly.
Fluent readers in a curriculum that stresses the development of a rich and deep background knowledge are ready for standardized testing with nothing more than rest and a good breakfast.
Gracious. Has content knowledge become synonymous with teaching to a test?
Free Market Educator
February 6th, 2010
6:25 pm
OOPS! The bottom four lines should have been deleted from above post. I was using it as a reference.
CharterStarter, too
February 6th, 2010
6:38 pm
Free Market Educator,
I fear you’ve taken a narrow view:
* If everyone homeschooled or schooling was privatized, how could we ever measure what “quality education” is – there would not be uniform standards or shared understanding/expectations.
* Although I am a Christian and teach my own children moral behavior (among other values including diligence, empathy, perseverence, etc.) according to my faith, that does not mean that individuals who DON’T teach the Gospel turn out to live a life of crime. It is possible for there to be moral individuals (with a good work ethic) that don’t practice Christianity.
* Not every parent is qualified to home school. Not every unqualified parent can afford a private school option.
* You assume that all parents of poorly behaving and achieving kids will “repent” from the error of their ways…there would probably be a lot more abandonment and even greater crime and poverty.
* We have poverty and lack of education right now…and the churches, although many try, have not corrected or eradicated the issue.
Happy Teacher
February 6th, 2010
7:29 pm
CST- I agree with you…but we should probably not rise to the bait of FME, Lee, or their ilk,as it willnot move the bebate forward much.
Not so fast Maureen!
February 6th, 2010
7:31 pm
@GAMom
“@ Not so fast – I find your comments offensive.”
Oh boo hoo hoo! Ever heard of the 1st Amendment?
“I am a black parent with a gifted over-acheiver on my hands.”
Congradulations!
“But, I CHOOSE to send my kid to a 99% black school…”
And I CHOOSE to send my kid to a 99% white (private) school.
Any other questions???
ScienceTeacher671
February 6th, 2010
7:37 pm
If this isn’t a case for consolidation of small counties, I don’t know what is….
These are among the smallest counties in Georgia. The five of them combined have fewer than 5000 students. Compare this to Gwinnett, with about 160,000 students, Cobb with about 108,000, or Dekalb with just under 100,000.
Yet, because they do not have economies of scale and have some of the same fixed costs as larger counties, their per-pupil costs are among the highest in the state. Three of them are in the top 10 for per-pupil spending, and all are in the top 25 – and its a sure bet they don’t have near the tax base of the metro counties.
This is pathetic. I bet none of the local school boards or superintendents would want to consolidate and give up their pitiful little power bases for the good of the children, but where is the gubernatorial or state school superintendent candidate who might make this a platform? It would be a terribly unpopular platform in many areas, but in many ways it’s the only practical solution to reduce Georgia’s governmental bloat.
ScienceTeacher671
February 6th, 2010
7:40 pm
Attentive Parent, direct instruction and strict discipline are usually the hallmarks of these schools.
You’d be surprised how many elementary teachers dislike direct instruction, because it isn’t “fun”.
catlady
February 6th, 2010
7:40 pm
Our policy is like Tony’s system. Kids can go wherever if their parents provide transportation. Othewise we have to cram them in somehow. I would guess there are few systems that bus away the excess students.
On the claim of wanting small schools–well, duh. All the national data support that, especially for at-risk students. Public schools cannot generally (DSS might be an exception) afford this. Nice that a charter school can limit its student population at the expense of providing transportation, for example.
Attentive Parent: Direct instruction has been widely panned by people who really know how to TEACH. It does NOT provide background knowledge. It teaches your child to respond like a robitron, to the click of a dog clicker, a standardized, canned answer. Thinking for yourself, or applying past knowledge or higher thinking skills is NOT allowed. Direct Instruction does, however, make some people a LOT of money.
Let’s not be naive; the charter school in south Georgia is set up to be a publicly -funded private school. Will it have the same demographics as the systems from which it pulls? I would bet good money the answer is NO.
Is this the same kind of charter that the Reynolds Plantation is having?
catlady
February 6th, 2010
7:50 pm
Science teacher 671, usually you and I see pretty eye to eye, but I can tell you “success” in DI does not translate into success outside of DI, in my experience. You see, on the (low level) CRCT, you cannot tell the students the answres you want them to parrot, and that is all they have learned to do, at least in the lower grades. I WOULD support DI for inexperienced teachers for a year or two. Then, let them really teach. I don’t like DI because it is built on false assumptions about the nature of REAL LEARNING.
catlady
February 6th, 2010
7:52 pm
My cat walking on the keyboard capitalized “real learning” but I don’t disagree with it
Sharterstarter, too
February 6th, 2010
8:11 pm
Happy Teacher,
You are probably right.
Catlady,
I hope this little school proves you wrong. I’m placing my bets on them and rooting for them to provide something better for these communities.
Attentive Parent
February 6th, 2010
8:47 pm
Catlady-
I’m talking about lower-case direct instruction as in explicit instruction of the unknown incremental knowledge using examples and making connections to what the students already know. It keeps working memory in that 30% range of novelty that helps learning grow.
You are confusing this with Direct Instruction as developed by Zig Engelmann. It’s highly effective as Project Follow Through shows but that’s not what ST671 and I are talking about.
I am always advocating for teaching that provides the scaffolding so that students can shore up foundations and move forward.
As an aside though there’s an interview with Zig Engelmann on the Children of the Code website where he explains how the scripted lessons evolved and how revealing certain types of common literacy mistakes are to the confusion in a child’s mind. It’s hard to imagine that those examples and insights would not be useful to most elementary teachers as they structure those real teaching lessons you describe and children need.
Free Market Educator
February 6th, 2010
8:52 pm
Charter Starter:
“I fear you’ve taken a narrow view:”
Jesus:
“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.” (Matt. 7:13-14)
Well, I guess I’m in good company.
“If everyone homeschooled or schooling was privatized, how could we ever measure what “quality education” is – there would not be uniform standards or shared understanding/expectations.”
What I proposed is “free market education.” Those offering useful and quality education will prosper, those who don’t won’t. Quality, or perceived quality gains reputation. Ever heard of Harvard or Yale? Colleges have been lazy and have relied on government schools to do their sorting of qualified students. They would have to become proactive and come up with their own policies of evaluating private and home schoolers. There are many home school parents who do not have a college degree, yet they are able to choose and teach quality curriculum to their children, who gain college acceptance. Also, home schoolers cannot take the CRCT and yet they consistently outperform the public school average on the ITBS and SAT’s. There would be nothing to prevent public school teachers from joining together to form a private school, run to their liking. If they offer a quality product, I’m sure many parents that don’t want to teach their children would flock to it. Also, public school teachers could be home school consultants and tutors. Many have already done so. Teachers could also offer online courses and work from home. Many already do so. There is still plenty of room for new K-12 curriculum. Foreign language teachers would be in demand. In other words, a talented teacher can make more money and have better working conditions than in the government system. And to be quite frank, our government is broke. With ALL taxes going to pay just the INTEREST on our $11,909,829,003,511.75 National Debt, we have no money left for public education, or anything else. It is going to go down anyway. The free market education will be self-sustaining. Hard work and sacrifice is the only choice we have left for survival.
ScienceTeacher671
February 6th, 2010
8:57 pm
Catlady, how about the part about consolidating counties?
There’s direct instruction the technique for teaching basic skills, and then there’s Direct Instruction such as Success for All. Don’t know that I could go with the latter, either. OTOH, the SRA box programs are considered to be direct instruction also, and I’ve had a couple of reading teachers tell me that those type programs were very good for targeted remediation. Not being a reading teacher myself, I really don’t have any direct experience at that…
ScienceTeacher671
February 6th, 2010
9:17 pm
Well, great. Blogmonster ate my post.