Georgia’s future: We can’t build it on promises of cheap labor and land
As with most elections, education became a focal point in the debate this week among Democrats running for governor. The problem is that education often does not remain a focus once the candidate gets elected.
Regardless of political party, it’s crucial that we elect a true education governor.
As a northern transplant, I am aware that people outside of the South assume that our schools are second-rate. I have no doubt that Georgia is never in the running when some companies discuss expansion because those companies know their managers would not consider a transfer to Georgia because of the reputation of our schools and the belief that we don’t place the same premium on education as New England or the Pacific Northwest.
For a long time, that was true. The leaders of Southern states sought to attract industry by promises of cheap land and even cheaper labor.
However, Southern states now understand that the future belongs to the educated and many states are pouring resources into their schools. Alabama has gained national attention for its emphasis and improvements in reading. Louisiana has a strong Race to the Top application. North Carolina is now often mentioned in the same breath as Massachusetts, Minnesota and New Jersey because of its early action on education reform.
And national experts and organizations are watching Georgia, which has, in fact, done some things right. I have been at several conferences in which experts — with no ties to the state — praise our improvement on NAEP.
Now, we are in danger of falling back on old patterns by assuming that we can jump-start our economy with the same old promise: “It’s cheaper to do business in Georgia.” The Legislature is talking about new corporate tax breaks at the same time that our schools are considering reducing the school year to make ends meet.
For example, Wilcox County just adopted a four-day school week, following Peach County, which is already on a compressed schedule. Carroll and Polk counties are also considering fewer, but longer, days. Cook is debating slicing 20 days off the year, lengthening its school days and extending its summer break.
Can schools fiddle with their calendars without affecting student achievement?
“That’s the $64,000 question, ” says Herb Garrett, spokesman for the Georgia Superintendents Association.
“For the short-term, maybe so. Maybe you can survive something like this for a year or two if you feel like there is a light at the end of the tunnel. But if that light turns out to be the head lamp of an onrushing train, no, ” he said. “If this goes on long-term, I can’t see this doesn’t have a negative impact on achievement.”
At a House Education Committee meeting last week, legislators also fretted about the negative effect of raising class size, a likely outcome of the budget crunch.
State Rep. Fran Millar (R-Dunwoody), vice chair of the committee, said that systems could realize a half billion in savings if they pushed up class size by two students across all grades next year.
Rather than increase class size, state Rep. Brian Thomas (D-Lilburn) wondered whether it might be better to increase the cigarette tax or trim the many corporate tax credits.
“There are ways to do it if the majority party has the will, ” he said.
However, Thomas might as well have suggested selling spare body parts. With the governor’s mansion up for grabs this year, the ruling party is not about to approve tax increases for cash-starved schools. “I think a lot of folks want us to try and find the money for schools, ” state Rep. Ed Lindsey (R-Atlanta) said, “but they want us to find it in existing revenues rather than dig deeper in their back pockets.”
That may be true, but other states have shielded schools through new taxes.
I think Georgia is about to decide in November whether it redefines itself as a leader in education, or falls to the back of the pack in a race that will be won by intellectual agility and adaptability.
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86 comments Add your comment
Uncle Commode
February 3rd, 2010
12:24 pm
Less schools more business tax breaks!!
done, just done
February 3rd, 2010
1:19 pm
I am so moving out of state to teach in a state that really does value education. These budget cuts will be devastating to Georgia Education for many years to come and I’m done with the backwater attitude of our legislature towards education. Legislators, pay attention: You are not dissuading me from teaching, you are dissuading me from TEACHING IN GEORGIA. And I’m one of the good ones, too
Bill
February 3rd, 2010
1:24 pm
When teachers have said that they have had enough of furloughs, cutbacks, increases in health insurance premiums, pay raises of key central office employees, & immoral politicians, education will then improve. Until then, education in Georgia will not change. Thank goodness, I am a retired educator.
Uncle Commode
February 3rd, 2010
1:41 pm
done, just done
February 3rd, 2010
1:19 pm
GOOD RIDDANCE, GET OUT, SIANAHRA, LEAVE, ADIOS, DONT NEED YA ANYWAY LOSER, WHEN THE GOING GET TOUGH THE TEACHERS RUN LIKE CHICKENS IN A STORM, ORWIVWAH, DONT LET THE DOOR HIT YA IN THAT OVERSIZE LOAD!!
Uncle Commode
February 3rd, 2010
1:43 pm
Bill
Tough Nuggies. You Dummycrats voted in this latest debacle and as usual you pansies want to cut and run but are now stuck in the ditch with obama, pelosi and reid.
AHH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!! LMAO @ U!
sees the future
February 3rd, 2010
1:47 pm
I’m one of those northern transplants and I can tell you that the big difference in education between the north and the south is the TAXES. My property taxes here are less than 1/3 what I paid for a similar house in the north. My state taxes are 1/2 what I paid.
On top of that, many of the school boards in the north are taxing authorities–that means they never have to meet a budget. If there isn’t enough money, they just raise the taxes! On top of outrageous property taxes, most city tax also have a 1% or 2% city wage tax (right off the top–gross), a .5% to .1% (gross income) commuter tax (for those mooching suburbanites who work inthe city), a 6% or higher state income tax, and then all kinds of surprising sales taxes and county taxes on top of that. Everybody gets a piece of your pay check and every level of government can raise taxes without asking you first.
The losers in that equation are the childless and the elderly. Many old people have to leave the north because the real estate taxes on their old paid off houses are more than their mortgages ever were.
So its not just that northerners value education more (and that is true too); it’s that they tax their citizens to pay for it and the amount goes up every year. Of course, when people pay those taxes, they expect something for their money, and the more they pay the more they expect, then the more they expect the more they have to pay. . . .so taxes just keep going up.
done, just done
February 3rd, 2010
2:14 pm
actually, I’d like to add that the opportunity to buy adult beverages on Sundays in JUST ABOUT EVERY OTHER STATE BUT OURS is another reason to get out of dodge . . . .
Tony
February 3rd, 2010
2:18 pm
So, exactly how committed are the people of the state of Georgia to their own children’s future? From the looks of, not very committed at all. This underlying attitude is at the heart of our state’s performance. Even though the politicians, business leaders, and Uncle Commode would like to blame it all on teachers and schools, they can’t. They are not willing to make education a priority to preserve the gains we have made. They are continuing to spout the untruths that have become standard repertoire. It is no wonder our students have so little drive for learning. All they see are the adults who whine and complain about how much work it takes to do well in school. So now that they have an opportunity to show their commitment to a strong public education system in our state, the only thing they can do is wring their hands and act like there is nothing they can do. Baloney!
Uncle Commode
February 3rd, 2010
2:23 pm
done, just done
February 3rd, 2010
2:14 pm
Again…
GOOD RIDDANCE, GET OUT, SIANAHRA, LEAVE, ADIOS, DONT NEED YA ANYWAY LOSER, WHEN THE GOING GET TOUGH THE TEACHERS RUN LIKE CHICKENS IN A STORM, ORWIVWAH, DONT LET THE DOOR HIT YA IN THAT OVERSIZE LOAD!!
Uncle Commode
February 3rd, 2010
2:26 pm
Many choose private schools for this children. We know the schools and teachers STINK!
Pete
February 3rd, 2010
3:03 pm
Tony,
I am afraid that I have to agree with you. I’ve been teaching for eleven years now, all of them in Georgia. I think I can say from that experience that the largest problems I have faced as a teacher are the disinterest of students. In my school, we send home progress reports every three weeks and meet with parents of kids every nine weeks that are failing two or more classes. Almost every time we have a parent conference to discuss what needs to be done to make a student more successful, we see first hand that the student is following the lead of their parent, who is also uninterested in their child’s education. I cannot count the times that I have discussed this lack of effort on their child’s part, only to be told by the parent, “I just don’t know what to do with them.” It seems that this attitude is pervasive throughout our leadership regarding what to do about education. “I just don’t know what to do about it” translates into do nothing at all and get the same results we have always gotten.
really, seriously?
February 3rd, 2010
3:04 pm
Actually Uncle Commode, private schools do not have certified teachers. While they may look for someone with a degree in that subject of study(a good thing), it does not necessarily mean they can TEACH the subject well. I’ve tutored three kids now from private schools and I am appalled at the lack of rigor the kids have to face in high school. Maybe it’s just these three, but I’d put my kid in a public school up against some of these private schools every day.
ATL Exec
February 3rd, 2010
3:10 pm
The impact of the public schools on an area’s desirability and property values really cannot be understated. Anybody who researches will easily see that the current education system in Georgia has basically determined the socioeconomic characteristics of the different parts of the metro area. At my large company downtown, for example, newcomers are always steered towards the northern arc (from I-75 to I-85) if they’re looking to use to the public school system. These areas, not coincidentally, tend to have the strongest public school systems and the highest real estate values. The number one answer I get when I ask my co-workers why they moved to these areas? “We did it for the schools…”
mystery poster
February 3rd, 2010
3:16 pm
@Uncle Commode
sayonara
Au Revoire
EX-Evil Old English Teacher
February 3rd, 2010
3:17 pm
This is from Dr. Cindy Loe’s, video cast about school budget:
-So far, $63M taken from Fulton County schools this year.
-There are more cuts to come: about $13M
-Next year an additional $150M will have to be sliced out of Fulton County’s already hemorrhaging schools.
-Teachers can expect at least six furlough days and possibly as many as ten next year.
-Class sizes will go above state maximums (using waivers) and this includes some AP courses, which means some will be lost, some will go over the recommended 23 (which is the loss of federal monies). It also means added responsibilities for teachers, less opportunity for student-teacher interaction, and higher drop-out rates.
-More teacher cuts.
See info here: http://tinyurl.com/ygfuh8q
Booklover
February 3rd, 2010
3:20 pm
@Uncle Commode
Everyone makes grammar and spelling errors, but your egregious and profuse errors point to your lack of respect for and interest in education. (Ex: “fewer schools” is grammatically correct.) People like you are the reason that the stereotype of the ignorant Southerner exists.
Not only that, but your lack of civility is embarrassing. You don’t even know “done, just done” and you’ve made two comments about the size of his/her rear end.
I feel sorry for your children and I hope they don’t inherit your rotten attitude.
Cobb Parent
February 3rd, 2010
3:24 pm
When we moved here, we did consider private schools but decided to give the public schools a shot. We ended up loving the local schools and stayed put. In my experience, good public schools require strong parental and community support. Teachers have to know they are being appreciated for what they do everyday and they also have to know about the community’s (hopefully high expectations) for student achievement. I make it a point to call my son’s teachers when I think the curriculum could be strengthened and the teachers respond partly because I always let them know that I appreciate the sacrifices they are making in going above and beyond showing up to work everyday. Areas with lots of people like Uncle Commode just don’t have this collaborative element, creating an inevitable cycle that makes those that can afford it HAVE to choose private school.
Cutty
February 3rd, 2010
3:52 pm
Mystery Poster- He went to private school, excuse him.
North Fulton Mom
February 3rd, 2010
4:03 pm
Good grief, I would be hesitant to send my children to whatever school UC went to, based on the quality and grammar of his posts.
Mac
February 3rd, 2010
4:07 pm
It is the same attitude and culture that has permeated schools here since way back when when I went to school. For kids it is not cool to be smart in our culture here. I went to school in the North for 3 years and the popular kids were the smart kids and I excelled in that culture. When I moved back to GA for High School I quickly (re)learned that being smart and showing it was not the way to social success, so I began acting like the cool kids in order to fit in and not have a totally miserable existence for 4 years. I did just enough to get by.
Now that my generation has the majority of children in our schools and is moving into ‘power’ as it may, many are still bound into that mindset. Until there is a cultural change here in the South we are going to be hard pressed to see substantial change. Easier to do what many did in High School – just enough to get by and cheat when you have to. Why are the schools better in the areas to the north of Atlanta as ATL Exec posted? Because a large majority of the people there are transplants from the North or other cultures where education is valued above most everything else.
I also think that one reason our educators in this area don’t stand up for themselves is partially a remnant of their own “Smart is Uncool” pasts. Keep it quiet and the cool kids won’t tease them or beat up on them. As one of my past bosses told me, most people don’t go into this business (education) because they like conflict.
Our Boss Hog politicians know this also and take full advantage of it.
Dewi
February 3rd, 2010
4:16 pm
Booklover, Mystery Poster – Don’t feed the trolls.
David S
February 3rd, 2010
5:04 pm
Let’s go over this again. Studies clearly and undeniably that money has nothing to do with quality in education and neither does time in the classroom. Just ask any homeschooler if they waste the entire day on formal schooling. Just ask them if they waste $7000 to $15000 a year on it either.
Their success comes from a child that wants to be there and a process that actually is about instruction and not about control or indoctrination.
End all government involvement in education and you will see education and learning flourish all over this country.
Dan
February 3rd, 2010
5:25 pm
I am not sure if ending all government involvement would cause education to flourish all over, but David S comments are closer to reality than most on the board. The problem is people have been conditioned by politicians that it is a “right” and by psycho babble that their shortcomings are not their own fault. The reality is dysfunctional as our system is it is an amazing opportunity, to be taken advantage of not a right to be bestowed
tipster
February 3rd, 2010
5:27 pm
Yes, David S, you are correct! Let’s tell Sonny to immediately close all of the public schools and send all of the students home! As you say, we “will see education and learning flourish.” What a brilliantr statement! You, sir, are an absolute genius! I am positive, as you are, that all of these children will immediately begin learning way more than they ever could in school. I can just see them forming little study groups to discuss algebra and physics and great literature.
ronda
February 3rd, 2010
5:28 pm
Its never about how much time, its how much quality is put into it. What people need to realize that GA is unique in its location because we receive ALOT of refugees from African countries and the Caribbean. Not only do children have to learn new concepts, they have to learn English AND be tested on it. Many of these students are transient which means if you see them for the entire year they will probably be gone the next. Education is at a critical point because of these challenges. On top of that, we have a different generation of parents than the generations before us. Many of my parents don’t work with their kids at home and it ALWAYS shows at school. There is also less respect for teachers. I would have NEVER talked back to a teacher. Some kids today fight them. Within 2 weeks of teaching a child, you can tell which parent puts education at the forefront. Teachers should take some blame if they aren’t teaching children at the level they are at and are becoming more unethical in their testing techniques or relationships with children. Teachers can be more educated and do better in the classroom but many times its just patchwork when we have bigger problems.
Gwinnett Teacher
February 3rd, 2010
6:03 pm
I consistently get 90% of my students to meet or exceed on the CRCT and other state tests. They do very well and leave in better shape then when they arrived. I teach in a Title I school and get just as good of results as if I were teaching in the more affulent areas of my county. I am from the North and very close to returning as well. It is funny how little education is valued here in Georgia and it is a shame that so many people think that in cutting education funds that you will help solve the problem. The problem will become that the people with other options will leave and the people with other options will end up being the good teachers. In the end leaving only under-qualified and flat out bad teachers, as the only ones left here! GREAT IDEA!
Northview (Ex)Teacher
February 3rd, 2010
7:01 pm
Ex-Evil Old English Teacher,
Cindy Loe would be better off to avoid being on camera. With her poor control over the English language and numerous errors in usage, she comes across as petty and not too bright (which is what the School Board wants in a Superintendent). Education for her is all about getting her fat little fingers on piles and piles of money. Then, maybe people will like her.
You are right to note all the cuts that Loe is reporting, but I think you are overlooking the fact that the Fulton County School Board has a long history of making bad decision after bad decision after bad decision. You would find it interesting to see how many of their former employees are suing them now. A little research on the internet reveals some interesting cases brought by former high-level folks.
As early as 2003, Katie and the girls decided that no matter what they would be making tax cut after tax cut after tax cut for the well-off. They proceeded without any thought of what might happen when dark days came. And this was before the loathsome and despicable Ashley Widener joined the club. Ashley is an ideologue, bought and paid for by special interests.
It seems quite simple to me. The clowns and fools that run the Fulton County school system have no interest in educating children. Loe is power-mad and incompetent. Katie and the girls just want to make sure that no wealthy people have to pay. Only in education can people be taken seriously when they demand a Ferrari, but only can afford a Kia.
Someone else mentioned how people in education do not like conflict, and I think that is true. Many teachers just want to do their jobs and live their lives. Education as a career appealed to many smart people because it used to be a way to live in a capitalist society without being a capitalist. Teaching also offered the possibility of moving society towards more justice and compassion.
But the influence of market ideology in education has been disastrous. Even though we clearly can see the pitiful results for our schools of putting republican market ideology into practice, they want more of the same. Does anyone else remember that Clinton raised taxes on the wealthy, and the country prospered like never before? Yet, Sonny, Kathy, Katie, and Ashley are doing all they can to make sure that there are a lot more “ex” teachers.
To the republican football-loving jerk who was calling me a “loser” last week, I want you to know that I made a deliberate and painful choice to leave teaching. It was hard to do so, and I miss my students every day (though I do not miss the idiots and fools who run the schools in Georgia). Education in Georgia seemed to me a lost cause, and subsequent events have confirmed my decision. A “loser” would have no options and would remain in the classroom indefinitely. But I had options, plenty of them in fact, and I chose to leave the classroom. Not having to dumb down my classes so that dimwits like you are not offended is no loss. The teachers who have options are bailing out of your schools, so I hope that’s what you want. It seems to me that you want students to be “losers” because you want a world of simplistic dichotomies: black and white, good and bad, no ambiguity. Such a view results from a poor education.
Amanda
February 3rd, 2010
7:05 pm
Really seriously – just because a teacher is certified doesn’t mean they can “teach” I have been in classrooms with teachers that are certified to “teach” but don’t know the subjects they are trying to teach. Teaching is the ability to instruct or communicate concepts and information. Teachers are no good if 1) they do not communicate well 2) have no clue about the subjects they are trying to teach 3) or is a combination of 1 & 2.
Old School
February 3rd, 2010
7:31 pm
I wonder just how our schools would fare in the AYP arena if special needs students were removed from the equation. Granted, some fit quite nicely and are successful in regular classrooms but far too many are included for the sake of inclusion and are ill-suited for the rigors of a regular class.
Snowbird
February 3rd, 2010
7:38 pm
You can get a good education with less time in school, but you have to do the homework. You have to be willing to turn off the TV and video games. This Connecticut Yankee remembers 6-hour school days that included art, music, and PE. The school day included about 45 minutes for lunch and recess. My local high school had a 6 1/2 hour day with 20 minutes for lunch. With seven class periods a motivated student could complete a lot of coursework in 4 years. I attended a state college, but some of my classmates attended big name schools including Dartmouth and Brown. It’s not just the time in the classroom that counts. It’s how you use that time. Yes, people living in New England are very willing to pay taxes to get the community services they want and need. They also expect to get a good return on their investment.
say what?
February 3rd, 2010
8:33 pm
Snowbird we get a great roi as we put more money in the criminal justice system than in education. Either pay for it upfront or get it in the rear. I moved my son to a Clayton Co school from DeKalb this year, and I love it! Not that the curriculum is any better or worse, but the ATTITUDE of the leadership and teachers makes it easier for me to get what I need for my child. If the school cannot provide, then they can recommend (without feeling threatened) other resources.
welcoming and honoring parents as collaborators goes a long way in getting things done, inlcuding having someone on your side when you want a tax increase or a new SPLOST.
One thing about taxes, GA has the lowest taxes in the nation.I find it humorous that people complain that they are not getting a lot for their taxes. If I had to pay for police and fire services, their benefits, equipment and training, road repairs, educating my children, a book collection such as in a public library,out of the taxes I pay, I would not get much. Same concept, we do not pay enough to cover our wants much less our needs.
ScienceTeacher671
February 3rd, 2010
9:54 pm
We’ve decided that Uncle Commode is troll, not satire?
child activist
February 3rd, 2010
10:26 pm
As a Georgia Educator for ten years, I have come to the conclusion that individuals dedicate their time to what they value. Until we are willing to dedicate our time and moneys to education, the educational system will continue to decline. I am disgusted with the promise of improvement with no action. It is time for change. It is time for the parents, teachers, community members, and all interested parties to have candid conversation and formulate strategies to improve our schools. We must “be the change we want to see”. Complaining will do nothing! It is time for change.
Current parent, former teacher
February 3rd, 2010
11:15 pm
On February 23 members of Georgia PTAs will be at the State Capitol, wearing red, en masse in support of our public schools. Show up, people! Register at http://www.georgiapta.org. Demand that the governor and legislators put education above everything else because without good schools, we ARE losing business. There are pockets in every county with great public schools, but it takes a LOT of research and candid conversations to find them.
When we don’t do a good job of educating our elementary and secondary students, we graduate students who are not ready for college (so many of our students must take remedial classes–which do not earn college credit). And if we don’t go back to good technical education at the secondary level, we will continue to lose many students whose talents are not in line with a college track diploma. Vocational education should take place in our high schools; not at the post-secondary level.
Without an educated population we have to import better educated employees from other states. How many native Georgians are employed by the Centers for Disease Control as researchers/scientists, the American Cancer Society, or teach at our institutions of higher learning?
Free Market Educator
February 4th, 2010
1:27 am
What do you mean “promises” of cheap labor and land? We have it now. Today. There are no jobs. Any large foreign business relocating here will have enough cash left over to fund private education for their kiddies. You “Northern visitors” came south to exploit the cheap labor and and land; now you want to change the rules for others and stick the locals with Yankee style tax excesses. You want to sit on your derriers and have others pay for your “almost ivy” government school dreams. Southerners have always considered public schools to be charity. Anyone with brains and money send their children to private school. If half the school population is on a free lunch program, how can local taxes ever hope to generate enough revenue to pay for them as well as the rich? Deficit spending becomes the norm. The state always has a hand out to the Fed, no matter how many attached strings. Government schools for all, are economic suicide. Georgia is now paying the piper for all of its spending excesses. Things will get much worse. We will be in good company…
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_14303473
Mtn. Man
February 4th, 2010
6:25 am
All comments sure do explain the rapid growth of most southern states! The roads go both ways,folks! Mtn. Man…….”.Lover of the SOUTH!”
Gwinnett Parent
February 4th, 2010
8:52 am
The key to more education $$$$-Audit the books. No tax increases until the books are independently audited, corruption uncovered, and un-necessary spending eliminated. No buget increases until we go 2 years without any cases of mis-appropriation of funds or corruption in the metro area(inc Clayton and Dekalb).
A few highlights(only those caught) of the past year $400,000 conferences in a deep recession, nepotism, buying over priced land behind closed doors, over paying for a project by millions, filling relatives/friend’s cars on the county’s dime. I could add more, but the day is short. When we look at economic growth it is not in the north with the over infalted taxes. Of course there are a bunch of Liberal Arts degreed, Starbucks sipping, trust fund babies that would disagree with me. Newsflash-Businesses are not enticed by high taxes. I would rather have lower taxes and spend the difference on choosing my child’s education. Public schools are controlled by people that do not know how to balance a checkbook or budget.
Really,Seriously? Every private school I considered lists the teacher’s credentials and requires certification. The reason why they can do more with less is because a) It’s harder to corrupt when you are small and not “top heavy” Also, when money does not pour in like water, staff learns to budget. b) teachers are more dedicated c) parents are more dedicated d) Private schools choose their students. Granted, I only considered fully accredited schools.
Northern Transplant
February 4th, 2010
9:15 am
Reading these posts, I’m surprised at how some people just don’t understand the link between economic development of an area and the public school system. My family could have easily afforded private school and actually; we were actually a bit surprised at the emphasis on going private down south. When we moved here, we quickly found that in order to send our kids to public schools and still give them a strong shot at admissions to the top national universities (my husband is an alum of one of these schools so he was able to receive the list of accepted students from the Atlanta area), we basically had to move to northern suburbs or go private. Most people in our situation, when they go to one of the more reputable privates, basically live close to their private schools in several areas ITP.
So, what happened in our situation (and that I know happens in many other situations) is we never even considered living in about 80% of the metro area because of the public school quality. Those are places that are not going to see any of my money from shopping trips, sales taxes, property taxes, purchases, etc. Any consultant that does the math will quickly see just how much many metro communities are losing when the only quality they offer is cheap land/housing. Most of us currently living in the northern Atlanta suburbs believe that it is economic suicide to think of “government schools” as “charity”. To the contrary, public schools are an investment in maintaining the high living standards of our communities.
Alabama Native
February 4th, 2010
9:39 am
We moved here from Birmingham, AL (Mountain Brook) a few months ago and were surprised at how few places in the metro area we could even consider moving to because of the school situation. We thought because Atlanta was such a large metro area, that our choices would be endless. Instead, we found ourselves traveling the same areas (basically East Cobb, North Fulton) over and over again trying to find that perfect house. I am a native Southerner, but I’ve always considered a good public school to be the hallmark of a strong, close-knit community. I know I would never move to a place with poorly performing public schools.
AP Teacher
February 4th, 2010
9:49 am
Things must be getting really bad here when transplants from Alabama can’t find schools as good as the ones they left behind.
ATLNative
February 4th, 2010
10:22 am
There’s probably a strong bit of self-selection going on in the metro area, particularly in the suburbs. Like many on here have posted, some people are drawn to Georgia for the cheap housing/land. People with a singular focus on more house for the money tend not to care as much about the public schools, meaning these areas tend to have less supported public schools. This helps keep property prices low since it repels many many other new residents have schools as a top priority. The cycle repeats, causing some areas to be lower priced and others to be higher priced and some areas to have better schools and others worse. It’s unlikely you’d find the FMEs of Atlanta living in the same parts of town as NT or AN.
Ivan Cohen
February 4th, 2010
11:21 am
In 1983 during a seminar at what was known as Savannah Voc-Tech, it was stated that the condition of public school education discouraged industries from relocating here. Those companies who choose to come South bring their higher echelon staff members and executives with them. The local population are offered entry level jobs. Very few locals ever get to climb the corporate ladder from entry level positions. It causes me to wonder if this is due to the company’s mindset or the graduates of the local school system.
Free Market Educator
February 4th, 2010
12:02 pm
Northern transplant,
Why did you move here? Of course, it was the cheap land and labor! That’s why you could afford a private school, and a nice oversized house, the cost of which would buy you a one room flat in New Jersey. Instead of taking these monetary advantages and using them for the good of your fellow man, you siphon off the resources of the public schools by having your children occupy needed seats for the poor and less fortunate. Welfare for the rich! What you have described as your little Yankee klatch, is nothing more than an attempt at a public funded private school. You want socialism for everyone but yourselves. The rich should pay their own way and give from their bounty to the poor. You don’t have to wait around for the tax man to do so. And of course, if the Northern tax and spend economy is so wonderful, why don’t you return? At least it would free up some seats at the government schools.
Free Market Educator
February 4th, 2010
12:20 pm
Tax and spend Northerners, here’s the perfect Northern city for you…
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aRLYN3..REz4
Get your plane tickets now, before the blizzard hits!
Forsyth Transplant
February 4th, 2010
12:40 pm
N. Transplant’s post is right on the money. When my family moved here, we didn’t consider anything west of I-75 or east of I-85 because of the public schools. We love the schools here and would never dream of going private. ATLNative, you are 100% correct – I would never dream of living in a community filled with people like Free Market Educator either. Quite scary to think that anybody would…
Wyatt
February 4th, 2010
1:18 pm
I’m another newcomer to the metro area and schools were definitely big on my family’s list when we moved here. The only private schools I would send my children to are in-town. I am not willing to live in-town and don’t want my kids to have to travel a ridiculous distance to get to school and back everyday. Therefore, I moved to an area where the public schools are good, like many other have done. We are doing exactly what the free market says we should be doing – putting our money in areas where education is part of the community’s values.
Northern Transplant
February 4th, 2010
2:14 pm
Free Market Educator, please reread my post. I never said we moved here for cheap land because we certainly would not have landed in our current neighborhood if that were our motivation. If you’re curious, we moved because my husband found a better job (just like he should be able to in a free market) and we found the area (schools, amenities, climate) to our liking. We pay more than 100k in taxes every year so I find your description of my family as leeches for using the public school system comical and remarkably delusional. Also, aren’t you being quite populist (and ironically anti-free market) by trying to keep rich students out of the public schools. Contrary to what you may want to believe, many parts of Atlanta are no longer “Southern” in the sense that you use the term and share a common belief that schools are the domain of the entire community. You’re welcome to move if you don’t like your new neighbors…
ltruks
February 4th, 2010
2:31 pm
There is a definite correlation between the attitude and ability of the people elected to govern and the state’s educational standing among the rest of the country. The vast majority are products of that same educational system.
Most argue that companies won’t come to Georgia because of the quality of education that is provided to it’s citizens. While this may be true there is another important and maybe the most important impact that the quality of education has on the citizens.
It is their ability to to develop and create opportunities for themselves and others in their communities.
Questions that need to be answered and addressed include how do other states develop high paying and numerous start up businesses when we all begin with the same human resource.
The true value of any resource ( oil,gold uranium,etc) is not realized until it has been developed and refined.
Pragmatic Conservative
February 4th, 2010
3:44 pm
Free ME, do you not realize the irony of what you are advocating? Your new system is far more socialistic than the current system because under your dream of government schools only for the poor, the middle class and affluent would pay into a system that their own children would be barred from using. Being free market is fine, but please don’t go on these blogs advocating socialism on steroids while proclaiming yourself to be a defender of the free market.
Free Market Educator
February 4th, 2010
3:57 pm
Let’s see, Northern transplant, you came here because your husband was offered a “better” job. Better paying than the Northern jobs created by those superior public school graduates? My, how could that be? Perhaps because labor and land are cheap here, a company can afford to offer a higher paying management job, or in this economy, just a job. And I suppose you could duplicate your current home price/square footage in your former Northern neighborhood, yes? And why did you not choose Lovett, Westminster, Pace, etc. in metro Atlanta? I thought education meant everything to you. Surely these students can get into your precious ivy leagues. You said you paid $100,000 in taxes last year. If more people thought like me instead of you, your taxes would have been much lower. So why are you complaining? Why are you trying to recoup as much of your money as possible by using public schools, meant for charity, and then cry when they’re not up to private school standards? You would raise taxes to force the less fortunate off their land just because you are too selfish to foot the private school bill. Are those the kind of morals they teach in Yankeeland? Scortched earth policy? You’re dam* right I wouldn’t want to be your neighbor.