“Super” seniors denied HOPE for extra semester. Is it fair?

Long, long ago, in the days before HOPE, there was another student with a four-year full-tuition scholarship. This student graduated with a double major by exempting many of her core courses (AP courses in high school, or SAT2 tests after high school could do this today), and concentrating on major coursework, as well as extracurricular activities.

I admire Ms. Hammons’ accomplishments, and am glad that she and her family felt they were worth the further investment. I suspect that there are other scholarship organizations, not funded by the state (or the lottery commission, or whoever we’re crediting this week) that might have found her worthy.

• Link
• Report this comment

let me start out by saying that certainly agree that HOPE needs to be limited. Students in Georgia are lucky to even have the state pay for some of their education. Unfortunately, so many are using HOPE that the state is running out of money. When the state runs out of money for mere education, the Board of Regents must force universities to cut out classes. When classes are cut, it forces students to stay in school longer just to meet graduation requirements. That said, these students expect HOPE to continue paying.

This not only affect HOPE recipients, but those who pay out of pocket as well. I am a full time student (older) who pays out of pocket, and I am forced to extend my graduation date another semester for 1 class. Why? lack of funding to offer the class year round. Maybe if HOPE limited their funds………………………………….

just sayin..

• Link
• Report this comment

My daughter graduated UGA with dual majors and had to attend a 5th year. Trust me, there was no fluff built into her schedule.

I paid the 5th year out of pocket and was grateful for the financial assistance that HOPE provided for the first four years.

That said, I have long been a proponent of making the HOPE Scholarship a REIMBURSEMENT program where the student pays tuition out of pocket, attends class, and then gets reimbursed by HOPE based on the results of their grades.

In my opinion, a reimbursement program would eliminate the student who goes to college for a year, goofs off and loses HOPE, and then drops out never to return. It would also eliminate the grade inflation at the high school level because the HOPE scholarship is now based on college work instead of the high schooler’s GPA to qualify.

To Ms Hammonds, I would say that you graduated from UGA with two degrees and all you paid in matriculation fees is approximately $7000. A pretty sweet deal if you ask me.

• Link
• Report this comment

I’m also a college student in GA and fully understand that HOPE funds are available up to a maximum number of credits. That’s the way it works, period. If you’re allowed to get extra monies for additional credit hours, the entire program will be compromised. There are rules, we work with them. Focus your energies on gaining employment for paying for extra credits like everyone else.

• Link
• Report this comment

@Lee- I SO agree. I LOVE the Hope scholarship as I know personally that many great kids have been able to attend college ONLY because of its existence. But let’s be sensible here. Many businesses offer college reimbursement just as you suggested…and knowing that money is coming back is a great motivator. Kids fresh out of highschool have a hell of a lot of growing up to do. Let them do it at their own expense. Afterall, after the first semester,each successful semester would bring money for the next. A sensible solution and a BIG money saver for taxpayers!

• Link
• Report this comment

Youth like her should get the additional funds for the extra year in college. To offset this cost, the Hope scholarship should be handed out with more discipline. With the existing grade inflation, we’re giving money to kids that don’t have a chance at being successful in college and should maybe consider technical school. We should also recoup HOPE funds from kids that flunk out after 1 year.

• Link
• Report this comment

Parent and Drew, you hit the nail right on the head. Lee, I agree with you about the reimbursement idea. Amanda, quit your whining and be thankful that you had the HOPE scholarship for as long as you did. By the way, I don’t see any plan of what Amanda intends to do after graduation. It would have been nice to see what she was planning to contribute back to society in return for her 4 1/2 years of education which was mostly paid for by the taxpayers.

• Link
• Report this comment

10 years ago HOPE was a great gift. Now it is an entitlement. Gimme Gimme!

• Link
• Report this comment

I have a 3.97 GPA and I too have exhausted my HOPE funds two semesters ago when I decided to double major. I am not complaining as I am a senior in my final semester who knew perfectly well what I was getting into. I appreciate having access to the HOPE program in the first place because without it, college would have been just a dream. You knew that the HOPE scholarship paid for a limited amount of hours–no exceptions. Instead of whining, be grateful that you have access to such a program, because everyone is not so lucky.

• Link
• Report this comment

I wonder if Ms. Hammonds would have been a little more judicious in her use of time and credits in the last four years if she had been footing the bill on her own instead of HOPE? Knowing that HOPE is taking care of the bulk of the expenses tends to give students a certain amount of freedom that they don’t have if they are paying the entire bill, and tend to make people scramble just a bit to get up and out in a timely manner.

At a major public university in North Carolina (not sure if this is the same for the entire N.C. university system), you can stay in school up to 140 hours. After 140 hours, you pay DOUBLE. Tends to cut down on the professional students However, we’re running into a slight problem in that my son entered school with almost 30 hours of AP credit — and we’re wondering if his university is going to force him to graduate “early”. When he registered for the 2010 spring semester, he was surprised to see that he was designated as a “senior”, even though he is a junior. Because of the freedom the 30 hours bought him from intro classes, he was able to jump right into major classes and do the double major, and is now literally searching for classes to take to complete the minor, while at the same time staying under 140 hours, AND not getting “kicked out” a semester early, because of some of his leadership commitments in various campus organizations.

To Ms. Hammonds: HOPE is a great thing, but don’t get greedy.

• Link
• Report this comment

The argument is that if you extend it to people who double major then why not to those who went on to graduate school. I knew what from the beginning that I was going to get a master’s level education at least and I took the required courses I needed to, graduated, and continued on to my masters. I feel like there has to be a limit. Congratulations on your accomplishments. You will get two degrees and if you have to pay for one semester at UGA, it seems like you will have to pay about 3000 dollars for that education.

• Link
• Report this comment

Ms. Hammonds apparently is under the illusion of grandeur that because she is an awesome student that the taxpayers of the state of Georgia are duty bound to provide her with every academic dream that she has. Bad news Ms. Hammonds: The taxpayers of the state owe you nothing. As for HOPE, I trust that you do understand that the proceeds that provide your HOPe come from the wallets of those who bet on a dream to be rich in a game that is incredibly slanted in favor of the house (the state).

I would suggest that you get a job to earn money to take those extra credits you so desire.

My academic experience was funded by a combination of friends, family, scholarships, loans, and yes…..WORK! This last piece of the college experience was the most valuable of all. It kept me connected with “ordinary” folks while I pursued my dreams in the oasis of academia. Today, I’m finishing a doctorate while working full time as an educator in the state of Georgia.

I wish Ms. Hammonds well in her future endeavors, but please remember that your life is shaped more by the efforts you earn than from what you demand be given to you.

• Link
• Report this comment

Ms. Hammonds, there is this thing called “Student Loans”. I know about this because my son is a 5th year student due to changing his major. He too maxed out HOPE and he has taken out a loan to pay for his last year of school.
The interest rates and the amount of time to pay for these loans are very reasonable and a bright woman like you should have no problem paying for them with the job your hard work will procure.

Like several have said, don’t be greedy. Your proposition would hamstring a program that is in place to help all Georgians that can maintain a 3.0, not just the very top students.

• Link
• Report this comment

You can not be a professional student and expect HOPE to pay for it. You took to many courses for the degree you were seeking. Sorry, but get a loan. The state owes you nothing.

• Link
• Report this comment

I thougth the HOPE was for students with good grades but with a family of a certain income limit. I see too many rich kids getting HOPE and I think that is wrong.

• Link
• Report this comment

The problem here is fairness. It was her decision to get two degrees, but Hope only pays for one. My husband who transfered to Georgia Tech, had to take an extra semester of classes, and had to pay out of pocket that semester because he ran out of hope money as well. There has to be some sort of medium. HOPE allows for a few extra classes, but not enough for a full extra semester. They have to have a cut off point. I would have loved for HOPE to pay for my Masters degree, but they won’t do that either. Why is that unfair? I would prefer though, that HOPE be around for my daughter, and I’ll just pay for my masters out of pocket. I felt extremely lucky that I was able to get my 4 years paid for by HOPE. Lets not get greedy here. If you are a “super senior” then good for you! You should have no problem paying back one or two extra semesters of student loans in order for future generations to get HOPE. You may even be able to look into some other possible scholarships. HOPE pays for four years, and we should be thankful for that. Don’t get greedy.

• Link
• Report this comment

Congratulations on your accomplishments! You are the type of student that the taxpayers want to fund. However, you are also old enough to understand the compromises needed to make the “world go ’round.” For the advantage of having a great internship on your resume, you had to give up graduating in 4 years and spend a bit more money. That is life, sweetheart. You are going to be hard pressed to find sympathy.

• Link
• Report this comment

My daughter will also graduate from UGA this semester with honors, and like Amanda, she too did not have access to HOPE funds for her final semester. In her case, the issue was not double majors or changing majors, but rather a change in the summer course offerings at UGA this year. The one course that she needed to complete before her eligibility expired was not offered due to budget cutbacks.

I am glad to say that my daughter has worked throughout her tenure at UGA to cover most of her non-scholarship expenses, and she will be graduating debt-free with a minimum amount of parental help. Yes, her parents picked up the tuition tab for her last semester … but we knew it was coming and had prepared for it.

I don’t necessarily agree with Lee that the HOPE scholarship should be a tuition reimbursement program. There are too many deserving kids who would never have the opportunity to attend college under those conditions. However, I see no reason why the scholarship can’t be modified to require the student to reimburse the lottery fund if they subsequently lose their scholarship and drop out of school.

• Link
• Report this comment

That’s right Amanda! How dare you go above and beyond expectations and expect to continue to receive any support for doing so. Don’t you know lottery officials have bonuses to get? And yes, even though HOPE is funded primarily by those freely playing the lottery and is not an actual “tax”, let’s just call it a tax and I am SO tired of paying for education and police protection and hospitals. I would rather my money go towards something important…like an unnecessary war. How dare you!!!

• Link
• Report this comment

Lee’s idea is terrific, and makes a lot of sense to me. My middle son just finished his first college semester with a 3.4 GPA, but he didn’t qualify for HOPE out of high school.

When we went to orientation, we were actually told to limit our kids to no more than 29 credits the first year. Since HOPE doesn’t reevaluate merit until after 30 credits, a student can go halfway through the sophomore year before risking losing it. By the same token, at this point my son won’t earn any HOPE money until his sophomore year also.

Youngest just received his early admission to UGA. We were not aware that the AP and dual enrollment courses he has taken during high school were going to count against his available credit $$ in the future. I’m glad I checked this blog todday.

• Link
• Report this comment

Excuse my ignorance, but is not the Hope scholarship funded entirely by the Georgia lottery? Which nine times out of ten the users of this scholarship and their family members are not the purchasers of the tickets that fund this program. Ms Harmon success should make her a prime candidate for one of the many scholarships offered by many foundations. Her time would have been better spent looking into this option earlier than complaining later. Life is not fair and there really is no free lunch. I wish her much success in the future.

• Link
• Report this comment

Let’s just melt this down. “I’m now experienced in marketing and wish to pass my proposal along for my master’s thesis.”

I know of many good people who lost the hope scholarship due to inability in holding a B average… A Lot of them. You get your shot at a higher education and that’s a very good thing for the people who can get there. That said, I know many who really didn’t belong there, or were borderline, but quite bright in their own way. I’ll ask a divergent question and question what happens to the people dropped from the program. Sure, the cream of the crop comes here advertising like a politician. What about the others, surely you know them. Joe plumber, eh?

Starlets fly on their own dime because they’ve earned, or are worth it. What of the 10,000 who didn’t make the Freshman year? Worthy students, perhaps. What of those with no sponsors to continue their education? Because, that’s what this is kind of about, right?

Someone failed to notice that they were about to be dropped for some reason and are now looking for a pillow to land on. Be it high or low, where is that pillow? You can drown in half a teaspoon of water, after all.

Yeah, drama grad.

• Link
• Report this comment

I wrote something and it still hasn’t posted but when I try to repost it tells me its a duplicate! Where is my post?!

• Link
• Report this comment

I have to disagree with PHS; I think MORE of the Hope money should be channeled into the Pre-K program, so that ALL kids in GA can have Pre K IN A SCHOOL, as mine were able to in Clarke Co. I think investing in kids when they are younger, especially “disadvantaged” kids, is a better use of the money. I also think that HOPE has not actually been able to do what it originally set out to. There’s no point in getting into the debate about whether access to resources affects overall performance, and there are cases on both sides, but the funding should be geared toward people who make the grade but couldn’t afford to go to college otherwise. I don’t know how that would be done, but a lot of you seem to think poor people are the ones buying lottery tickets, so those of you who think this should have no problem with funds being distributed as such. To me, there should be a combination of qualifications.

• Link
• Report this comment

Let me clarify – I’m talking exclusively about the reimbursement suggestion from above.

Of course students already have to maintain a 3.0 in college to remain eligible for HOPE. This one flat line for all or nothing keeps things simpler for all involved. Reimbursing students based on their GPA will create situations where students expect one set of grades when they’ve really earned another and then they don’t get as much money back as they think they should get.

• Link
• Report this comment

@willie, honey our kids cannot qualify for any of the free money because we SAVED our money and did not spend it, thus the government wants us to use our money and give money to the kids whose parents did not save. The same way they want to tax us on the money we are earning to share it with those who are not working…..HUH?

Yes, it may look like we have money ( in our house) but that is because both parents have been working since before the kids were born. We use coupons, drive older cars that are paid for and are not into bling. We do not have the most up to date cell phones, a big screen TV nor even a Wii ( is that spelled correctly?)

HOPE rewards any kid who is willing to keep his/her grades up. To me, this is fair. Our son used it and now our daughter will too. I am grateful for any money the kids can get as the loans they take out will be paid back by them. We can help out some but will not refinance our home to get them through school.

@ Red, what is up with UGA being a second rate school? It is getting more difficult to get in every year.

@ ROBERT….I think Super Senior is not talking about the character of Amanda but that she is now more than a senior as far as length of attendance. …kind of like Senior PLUS.

• Link
• Report this comment

Like somebody previously said, the HOPE must have limits. I’m a junior in college, and due to a change in major, will have to pay for my last semester of school. I am beyond thankful that HOPE has gotten me this far.

If Amanda has such a stellar academic record, perhaps she should have applied for a merit-based scholarship.

No one is entitled to a college education. It must be worked for as well as paid for.

• Link
• Report this comment

Just to clear something up, a “super senior”does not refer to someone who has gone above and beyond, it refers to a 5th year senior. Also, graduating in 4 years with two majors is not a matter of budgeting your time correctly. For business majors at UGA, you must first take all your core classes (60 hours, which is 4 semesters) before you can apply for Terry. Only once you’ve been accepted for the major can you begin to take classes for the major. Since graduating with one major is 120 hours, graduating with two majors can easily put students over the 127 hour cap.

And to those saying students now are getting such a great deal, remember that in 1990 tuition and fees at UGA was roughly $2000. It is now over $4600, with only around $3000 a semester being covered by HOPE. Factor in the increase in textbook costs (roughly $400-$500 per semester and increasing on average at twice the cost of inflation) and the cost is relatively the same as pre-HOPE (and yes, that factors in inflation). Don’t get me wrong, I love HOPE and am thankful for it (especially given that I have 2 other siblings currently in college), but people sure do think that this generation has it so much easier than they did.

For those that love sources: Tuition increases: http://www.uga.edu/oir/reports/sugtuitcomp9106.pdf
Textbook increases: http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-05-806

• Link
• Report this comment

oops, meant to add that the $4600 figure is as of 2005-2006. That was before the last two $100/semester fee increases from the board of regents.

• Link
• Report this comment

comment didn’t post first time, let me try this again.

The term “Super Senior” refers to a 5th year senior, not someone who has gone above and beyond. Also, budgeting of time is not the reason most people with dual majors go over the “limit” and don’t graduate in 4 years. To graduate with one major, 120 hours are required and only some of those can satisfy both majors (mainly the first 60 hours of core classes and a few of the non-major required electives). Simply put, usually the extra year is necessary for the extra major.

And to the people who think that students have it so much cheaper today, remember that tuition and fees at UGA in 1990 was $2000. In 2005 it was $4600, with only $3500 being covered by HOPE. Since then, an additional $200 per semester fee has been added in the past year by the board of regents. At the same time, textbook costs have increased at twice that of inflation. Textbooks are now around $400-$500 per semester. When you adjust for inflation, students on HOPE are still paying nearly the same as those 20 years ago. Don’t get me wrong, I love HOPE and am thankful for it (especially with two other siblings in college), but it’s not like we’re going to school for free.

Sources: Tuition increases- http://www.uga.edu/oir/reports/sugtuitcomp9106.pdf
Textbook increases- http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-05-806

• Link
• Report this comment

Ms. Hammond: you made the choices you did. Surely you, as a super senior, can live with the results of your voluntary choices. Best wishes for a successful career. And, should you be confused, HOPE does not pay for grad school, either. Reap the benefit of your hard work, and be glad of the opportunity you have had–one that in many other states would not have been afforded to you.

• Link
• Report this comment

P.S. My younger daughter graduated from a $34000 per year private college here in Georgia in 8 semesters with dual degrees in astrophysics and math, 3.4 GPA. As you are probably aware, Hope pays only a pittance of that cost (as is right), being a private college. So, ya’ know, I really don’t want to hear the super senior schtick. (A super senior does it in 4 years) Better drop the entitlement ‘tude before you make a negative impression on employers!

• Link
• Report this comment

Oh, yeah, and back in the day (1970) there was very little financial aid. NSF grants were gearing up. Graduating second in my high school class of 250, I got a 100$ “award”. There were also no AP classes then, athough you could try to CLEP out. I graduated with a 3.8 in 3 years by taking massive overloads (6, 7, or 8 classes per term).

To quote Monty Python: And you tell kids of today that, and they won’t believe you.

To quote Brother Dave Gardner: Gratitude is riches and complaint is poverty.

• Link
• Report this comment

Amen, catlady

• Link
• Report this comment

Nope. I was an only child and born in FL My mom was a teacher and my dad a rocket scientist (really). His missile was finally used in the Persian Gulf War. I was richly blessed by having two college grad parents BS in psych and soc, minor in Latin , and BSEE from Duke (in 3 years!) from the early/mid 1940s.

• Link
• Report this comment

I feel for this person and actually agree there should (in a perfect world) be something that could be done, BUT there is only so much Hope money. To give her extra would take away from others. The problem isn’t actually the distribution of the money, but the production of it. I.too, take advantage HOPE and it clearly lays out what it is you can and can NOT do frm the beginning. When I was on HOPE grant, I knew in the beginning it would only pay for a certificate and if I wanted to pursue my AA back then, that I would have to foot the bill for the few remaining classes so I prepared myself back then for that and paid for the other classes I needed in a different way until it was time to apply for the HOPE scholarship that I knew I had a high enough GPA to obtain. Someone of her intelligence should already know that. Plus there are other scholarships that someone with your GPA and accomplishments should have no problem qualifying for IMO. When in college you must leave all options open and consider alternative ways to take care of these issuea as you will have to do in real life. HOPE is not a bottomless well of funds and can not award more than it has to take care of the overachievers AND those who otherwise would not have the fair opportunity to achieve in the first place. Matter of fact, we’re lucky to have such a thing and will be even luckier if its still around years from now.

• Link
• Report this comment

While your accomplishments are admirable- I must comment that for such a smart young person, you forgot to read the rules. You are a good student, very involved, and apparently many connections. Therefore, you must be aware of grants, scholarships, and as always- student loans. Stop whining- it is mature, nor worthy of your accomplishments thus far.

• Link
• Report this comment

WHAAAAAAAAAA! Ms. Hammons your whine isn’t quite loud enough. You need to take “gimme” lessons from the PROFESSIONALS at Berkeley U. …..

http://michellemalkin.com/2009/12/13/torch-wielding-leftists-at-uc-berkeley-attack-chancellors-home/

• Link
• Report this comment

great observation..”a great society is an educated society” Our legislators would rather spend BILLIONS bailing out greedy mismanaged corporations then putting a little extra in the public education of our youth….

• Link
• Report this comment

cat lady and free market educator are the reason ideas die prior to incubation….Why change things….why improve and expand the opportunity to educate our youth…In EUROPE college is FREE!!!!!….THE U.S. ranks 15th in the world in education…and yes all European and asian countries rank ahead of us….Get off your “I walked 10 miles to school in the snow” sob story and be thankful we have cars and mass transit….oh and read a book by someone in this millenium…..

• Link
• Report this comment

Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth!! I’m glad we have the Hope Scholarship in Georgia. Glad that so many have been able to benefit from it. I hope it will continue for years to come. But, this is the problem when someone is given something. Somehow it becomes something that is due to them and more often then not, they feel they are due even more. To the author of this piece, congratulations on your accomplishments. Life is tough. Get a job and pay for your final semester. It will do you a world of good.

• Link
• Report this comment

I attended a private school in GA with my tuition paid by a variety of merit scholarships, including HOPE (like catlady said, though, HOPE was merely a drop in the bucket). I double majored and easily graduated in 4 years. If that had not been possible, my second major would have been my minor, as there was no way I was going to pay $15,000 for the extra semester because 1) I didn’t have it as all the scholarships were limited to 4 years and 2) it wasn’t worth the money! Most people I knew in college double majored or at least accompished two divergent lines of coursework, such as completing a long list of prereq courses for med school while also completing a B.A. core and humanities major. We were all involved in extracurriculars, put our hearts into leadership roles, completed internships, and had high GPAs. But we recognized we had timelines, financial limitations, and higher degrees we wanted to get started on and be able to pay for, so we adjusted our student careers accordingly. But you think you should be entitled to extra money just because you chose a longer path to graduation? Please don’t act like you’re being punished for being too ambitious. That’s just obnoxious, and frankly, the resume you listed really isn’t that impressive.

Honestly, when you go to apply for jobs, lacking the second major might not have mattered much if you could make the case that you were still qualified through coursework on your transcript. You may have been just as well off to have the marketing major, complete an internship, and come up a little short of completing the sport management major, but still with a long list of classes you could show that you completed with good grades in preparation for that career. But you weighed your options and felt it was worth the extra money to have the second major listed on your diploma. That’s fine — it’s your decision, and if you are correct that it really matters for your employment options, then one semester’s tuition at a public university is really a small price to pay. The state got you through 4 years leaving you to pay roughly 11% of 4.5 years’ tuition. Sounds like a bargain to me.

• Link
• Report this comment

Oh and anyone who uses the name of an animal to blog is definitely not on my Christmas list.

• Link
• Report this comment

Actually, unless the program has changed recently, there are some additional limits beyond the 127 hour requirement. I changed schools midway through college and lost my HOPE award because I did not do as well as hoped at the first college (should have gone to engineering school instead of liberal arts college in the first place). Fast forward a year and even though I had a 3.75 GPA, I could not get the HOPE award reinstated because at my 90th attempted hour (I dropped one whole class after the drop/add period), I only had a 2.9 GPA. There was no warning for this, just a rude awakening when I started doing research with the financial aid office. In the end, I learned an expensive lesson and am still paying for my education because I did not drum up enough additional scholarship support. My parents were unable to completely support me and I was unable to drum up enough additional scholarship support to offset the lost of the HOPE scholarship. For the record, this wasn’t for lack of trying, but for a naive lack of understanding. And yes, I worked my entire way through college. Sometimes that’s the way the cookie crumbles.

• Link
• Report this comment

Educator is missing the point. The Hope is a limited fund and is used by students across the state. Amanda could have and should have appropriated loans, applied for scholarships, or worked to help pay for school. She is not a lazy student, but she understood the rules when she accepted Hope. I don’t know if educator has googled anything about the university systems in Europe, but here’s a link he should review. It reveals a poor system with many problems, but it is not free. The link is three and a half years old, but I would say it is still relevant today. There were several articles like this on page one of my google search. http://publicuniversities.ssrc.org/commentaries/european_universities/

• Link
• Report this comment

Funny, the baby boomers get hit with a recession and they throw out the American Dream. Historian and writer James Truslow Adams coined the phrase “American Dream” in his 1931 book Epic of America: “The American Dream is that dream of a land in which life should be better and richer and fuller for every man, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement.”

I guess we can throw that idea out.

• Link
• Report this comment

I’d like to clarify any misunderstandings that have developed:

The main point is being completely misinterpreted. The reason I wrote the article was NOT to complain. I am completely grateful for my four years of paid tuition. The point of the article is to suggest an Amendment for the existing Scholarship guidelines, similar to the Academic Excellence Grant provided by most high schools in GA. The Amendment would be to grant an appeal process for students completing a degree that have exceeded their allotted HOPE hours, contingent on maintaining a 3.5 GPA. Yes, I knew the rules when I enrolled in college, but I did not know how my college career would develop. I don’t expect to be an exception to the rules, I’m suggesting an appeals process for students who have earned an extension to complete their attempted degree. This is not to encourage “professional students” because ideally the educated students would then move on to begin working and, as always, the appeal would still be at the discretion of the HOPE Scholarship committee.

For those of you who claim I could have worked or “forecasted” better… I ask you to re-think your cynicism. I have worked several jobs tirelessly throughout college to support myself. Achieving two degrees required 4 ½ years and could not have been achieved in 4. I have never taken an elective that was not required and never had a summer off from school or work. My internship was required to graduate from the Marketing department, so no, I could not have pursued post-graduate internship opportunities. Again, I am not complaining about the level of intensity or sacrifice involved on my journey, just trying to communicate that I did approach my decisions with advisement and clarity. I’m excited to enter the job market, as my education has fully prepared me to do so and I will begin my contribution to society without hesitation.

With regards to my achievements meriting some other scholarship funding, you are right. I received the Soule Scholarship in the Spring which funded my Summer Internship credit over the summer. I searched far and wide for scholarships awarded in the Fall, but all of the scholarships that I could apply for were awarded the semester after I would graduate. I also have accumulated significant debt through student loans that I’ll begin paying just like the rest of the December graduates.

Accusations of greed and entitlement are simply ridiculous. My goal for this letter was to fill a perceived hole in the education system, not to re-coup a few thousand dollars. And filling this perceived hole would not come out of the tax payers pockets, as HOPE is funded by the GA State Lottery. I realize limits and moderation are critical to successful implementations of any program, but the HOPE was founded to give students the chance to learn for free. This is merely an extension of that principle.

Hopefully I’ve cleared some things up so that you will understand this letter was to propose opportunities for future students, not to protest my own personal experience.

• Link
• Report this comment

The real disconnect is betweeen the financial aid “satisfactory progress” mechanism and the fact that at most schools the tuition stops going up after you reach a minimum full load. We used to be able to encourage good students to learm more by taking non-required courses above the required ones, thus broadening their education and instilling a sense of intellectual curiosity that benefitted them and society as a whole.

Now we have a generation of students who view college as a hurdle to overcome and think they’ve made a horrible error if they ever took a course that doesn’t directly contribute to their degree program. What a waste.

• Link
• Report this comment

Wow! Almost everyone is suffering from the bad economy and we have a student who wants us to pay for her college as long as she goes. I understand that she wants more education and is not really wasting the money, but there has to be a limit. Look for other ways to pay for your education.

• Link
• Report this comment

The prevailing sentiment in response to “Hope Extension” supports the concept of fairness and equitable distribution of resources. The author of this opinion piece, although self described as a highly successful student, seems to more more consumed with her narrow (selfish?) view of the HOPE program: “What more is in it for me”, suggesting a disappointing “entitlement” mentality that we see too often in our culture. Perhaps, after the author has digested the remarks published here, she will rethink her place in a society that has to make tough choices about resources. Otherwise, it would be disappointing for such a seemingly bright person to miss such a critical point.

• Link
• Report this comment

This is an excellent example of why even modest entitlement programs get out of hand–the original gift is never enough and people quickly move from being grateful for the help to being angry that it’s not enough.

My family came here from Pennsylvania where the in state tuition at Penn State is $20,000 per year–that’s tuition, not room and board. Even without HOPE, Georgia’s tuition is a bargain. You got a great deal–say thank you and take out a student loan for the last semester.

• Link
• Report this comment

Amanda, I think the reason people have trouble seeing the value of your proposal is that your arguments for it were all about you and your wants. You talked about the extra free semester you seem to feel you’ve earned and how it will benefit you. You didn’t really make a good case for the value of investing in our students having dual degrees or double majors. Not everyone will agree that two is better than one, especially when you could have moved on to a higher degree program rather than working on an extra bachelor’s.

When you look at a government run program, it’s important to try to determine what value that program will add to our state. Many people agree that Georgia benefits from giving more students an opportunity to extend their education beyond high school and providing an incentive to our very best students to stay in state. But will Georgia be better off if more students have dual bachelor’s? Or if the money were available, would it be better to help fund master’s programs? Or more vocational ed? Or programs to retrain older workers? I have heard good arguments for extending HOPE for bachelor programs that by design require more credits, like many majors at Tech, to avoid discouraging students from enrolling in those programs and help Georgia to maintain a strong pool of applicants for jobs in those fields. That argument is not about rewarding those students, but rather about building our workforce. The students in return, would receive full tuition for one bachelor’s degree just like every other student on HOPE.

So why should we invest more in you? Because of a 3.5 GPA? Because of your club involvement? How would having more students with both marketing and sport management bachelor’s degrees benefit Georgia more than having just marketing majors? You haven’t sold most of us here on your proposal — put those marketing skills to work and try again.

• Link
• Report this comment

warrior woman and J conservative ..i nominate you for a my life is harder than yours award…as Philosopher correctly states….why wish hard times on others just because you had hard times.

• Link
• Report this comment

Ms. Hammons,

I don’t think you could have picked two less marketable degrees. Why should the lottery subsidize your last semester because you weren’t satisfied with 1 wothless degree? I mean seriously…marketing? Sports Management? Perhaps your pleas for financial assistance would have been better received if you had chosen a degree that you can use and will actually benefit society, such as a doctor or engineer.

• Link
• Report this comment

Ben – a degree is only as valuable as you choose to make it. I can see yours has been put to good use.

• Link
• Report this comment

I apologize to the reader base for miscommunicating the message. My list of accomplishments was simply to give you a general idea of who I am based on my career developments that have begun to define my character. There’s no type particular type of student I am addressing, and I hope that becomes clear. It would be up to the HOPE Scholarship Committee to address the appeals made by each student. The only qualification I suggested was the cut-off of Honors students. Some great students and bright minds may not have a 3.5 GPA, but that is the hierarchical cut-off established by the education system.

I’ll leave it up to the policy holders to make those kinds of decisions.

The data you are asking for is beyond my research and I’m not even sure that kind of data exists until tested. IMO, the HOPE should go on as long as they are granted an appeal by the committee.

I don’t know what more I can do to explain myself, but I’ll continue to try. After receiving feedback from my peers, it is apparent that the message communicates more effectively to the student demographic. After graduation I’ll consider devoting time to the argument and try to position it better for readers that are more removed from the college environment.

• Link
• Report this comment

“I’ll leave it up to the policy holders to make those kinds of decisions.”

Noooooooooooooo!

Amanda, you’re a bright young woman living in a democratic society — use your talents to petition the policy makers. Do that research. Some of those numbers won’t be as hard to at least estimate as you might think, and if you get a state representative interested, they may even be able to get that data from the House Research Office. Most importantly, keep an open mind. As you learn more and find yourself looking at it from a nonstudent point of view, you may come to think that neither your current proposal or the system that’s in place are satisfactory and you might find yourself working yet another solution or even aiming for a different goal. Good luck!

• Link
• Report this comment

Amanda, the biggest problem you have here is that the vast majority of the blog participants simply do not agree with your position. No matter how many times you re-state it, it speaks to a fundamental issue that most Get Schoolers feel strongly about — equitable distribution of limited resources. We understand your argument, but understanding it and being swayed by it are two very different things. It’s not a reflection on your persuasive skills that we disagree with you.

I will point out that using yourself as an example almost always puts your argument at a disadvantage, because people automatically assume that your argument is biased in favor of your situation. If you had written about the challenges faced by perhaps three or four other “super seniors,” your position may have been considered with considerably less cynicism. The result may have been the same, but you wouldn’t have been in the position of defending your own choices to a bunch of strangers

My daughter is a freshman at UGA this year, and we already know that, if she stays with her planned course of study, she will be interning her 9th semester as part of a six-month internship necessary to qualify for her degree. This is just the way it is, and it isn’t a matter of not choosing the appropriate course, or whatever. The curriculum for her major is very clearly spelled out for each sememster, with 16-18 hours a semester in a proscribed sequence, with none of the classes available in the summer after next year due to the specialized nature of the degree. But, if HOPE ends up footing the bill for 8 semesters, I will still be one very happy parent — one semester’s tuition seems like a bargain!

• Link
• Report this comment

I went to UGA for grad school, and I remember being shocked at the sense of entitlement of UGA undergrads. So many UGA undergrads seem to underperform–a 3.5 GPA there means that you showed up to class once in a while. Aside from really one or two students in the Foundation Fellows Program, there were so many slackers at UGA. You get to go to college for free for four years and all you have to do in return is function like a human being. Be grateful that you got the opportunities you did. Only in America would a sports management/marketing major feel entitled enough to ask for MORE scholarship money.

• Link
• Report this comment

HB — I want to thank you for your feedback. You replies have been great constructive feedback. Yours is the kind of “sage advice” that keeps young minds in the pursuit of higher goals.

DB — I understand that everyone doesn’t agree, but that’s also politics. I’m not a politician obviously and this being my first article, it is obviously going to have some flaws. I appreciate your feedback also and wish your daughter the best of luck at UGA. It’s a great school and her time here will go by faster than you can imagine! Go Dawgs.

freemarket — a free lunch would be in you didn’t earn it. And actually, there are several opportunities in the “real world” for a lot more “free” lunches… how about the Lottery… which funds the HOPE. I’m really not going to argue or debate with you, seems pointless.

HATL — underperform? you should be ashamed of yourself. Judging the masses by the few students you observed. There are slackers at every school and any GPA worth it’s salt is earned, not entitled. I must admit, after a few times studying ALL NIGHT, it can be hard to function like a human being. I am grateful. How about you read my responses before jumping on the entitlement bandwagon. Only in America would a grad student think he is qualified to judge someone else. And hello, it’s SCHOLARSHIP money, if someone a long time ago didn’t ask for more, we wouldn’t have as much as we do now in the first place. If you are really degrading my majors… go check the rankings of Terry College of Business and read up on the contribution of Sports to our economy… MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR industry. Thanks for your opinion, but I can’t see how your argument is any more than a grudge against UGA undergrads and judgment against your opinion of a ‘lesser man’.

• Link
• Report this comment

1. According to SRDE 2005 study, the four year graduation rate at UGA is 43%. To give that context, the four year graduation rate at the Univ. of Virginia, another public university, is 84.2%. This is a HUGE inefficiency. I understand that the author isn’t taking more than four years for some blameworthy reason, but using precious resources to subsidize students wishing to take more than four years at UGA just doesn’t make sense.

2. The Terry College of Business is ranked 30th for Bachelors degrees in Business Admin (the general undergraduate business degree). It has better rankings in a couple of specialities. In short, its ranking is OK. But you have to remember that 7 of 8 Ivies, Duke, Stanford, and really the majority of top schools choose not to offer undergrad business classes. In other words, UGA has a lot of work to do to be considered a top place to go for business. This just underscores the fact that money should be going to attracting better students and to improving resources, as opposed to other things.

3. I think it’s important to talk about these issues, but asking for more money after having received four paid years at UGA is asking for A LOT, absent some truly extraordinary contribution or accomplishment. Instead of a 3.5 GPA threshold, which is really setting the bar low at UGA, I would only give out extra money for people who have demonstrated extraordinary talent, was unsuccessful in getting other sources of scholarship money, and has contributed extraordinarily to the university community.

• Link
• Report this comment

BTW, Amanda, how much did your extra semester cost the taxpayers of Georgia? Yeah, I know that HOPE is lotter-funded and paid tuition and adab of other things, and you or your parents paid room and board, but I guess you are not aware that each year the people of Georgia, through taxes, pay a little more than $12000 for each student? This is because tuition (in your case, HOPE) pays only about 30% of the cost of putting on the classes, regardless of your housing status (which you would have anyway no matter where you live unless you are dead).

So, while you were getting a double major in fields that don’t seem to show a lot of room for growth (and certainly don’t see life-changing, as might, say, microbiology or immunology) the taxpayers were supporting this quest to a tune of an additional $6000 more or less.

Please report back to this blog on your job search in about 6 months.

• Link
• Report this comment

catlady — my extra semester didn’t cost you anything. and my degree is not your concern.

• Link
• Report this comment

So, not only does she have this sense of entitlement (which clearly came thru in her written piece and her responses) but she needs a serious attitude adjustment as well.

I totally agree that HOPE should not be extended beyond the 127 credit limit. The rule was made a few years ago because of students like the author…professional students who stayed in school and used up the HOPE funds. HOPE is not a never-ending pot of money. And as someone else asked…if you extend the scholarship cap, where will it end? Plus, GSFC will also have to extend the cap for the HOPE grant. There are alot of students with bachelor and masters degrees returning to get techinical training. Would they be able to receive HOPE as well? Right now they don’t. As brilliant as the author is, she has tunnel vision and is unable to see the big picture as well as think about all of the ramifications of her proposal.

My daughter is a GA State student and a HOPE scholarship recipient and we knew of the cap. She declared a major during her first year and we made sure that her classes were mapped out. She experienced a health setback and had to sitout the spring last year as well as had a couple I grades from the fall changed to W, but she is still on the scholarship.

I work at a university and I see many Amandas every day. “I knew the rules, but now that I’am being affected, it’s not fair.” I’m surprised she didn’t say no one told me…that’s a favorite. They always think you should break the rules for them. What Amanda and they others do not understand is that when you bend the rules, you set a precedent and open a hornet’s nest.

• Link
• Report this comment

Amanda,

If you didn’t think any of this was our concern, why did you complain in a public forum?

• Link
• Report this comment

I just wanted to note, for those individuals who claim that they are paying for Amanda’s education, that they are not actually paying for her education. The HOPE scholarship is funded by the lottery, not by tax dollars. So, this is not the burden on tax payers that some posters seem to insist that it is.

As a college student, I am grateful to help, and I am saddened that Amanda does not share this same gratitude. It’s actually very unfortunate. I feel very lucky that the state of Georgia provided a service that has allowed me to go to college in a way that was affordable and based on my own hard work. This lifted a huge burden off my parents, and considering the economy, I don’t know that I would have been able to even attend college if it hadn’t been for HOPE.

I graduate next semester, and I will have to pay out of pocket for some of it. However, I chose to work and save my money just in case this happened. Sometimes, sacrifices have to be made. I am just happy that this scholarship was there at all.

• Link
• Report this comment

I too am a super senior (at an Illinois State University) whose financial aid was taken away. It is really disheartening to me that my school cannot support my final semester of education. I was awarded two grants, and upon reaching the max. credit hour load was told politely that I am having to pay out of pocket now. At 18 I was not ready to make my final choice on career fields as I changed my major 2.5 years into it. so now going on my 6th year of college… yeah I get it (Trust me… I want to graduate). However, my university gave me the opportunity to appeal my financial aid. I had to supply them with letters from my advisors, a plan to complete the required course load, and a letter explaining why I had not finished yet. I met all requirements and have one semester (a 9 credit hour course) which remains. I have completed my application for graduation, and now I am facing the ugly fact that I might have to go on for 7 years in order to take 1 year off to work enough in order to pay for my final semester. In some instances, I really truly wish that schools would want to promote their graduating students and show their appreciation of hard work. My plan included in my appeal outlined the past 2 years of courses, grades, and accomplishments I was able to make in order to meet the graduation requirements while following prereqs. etc. The timing of my plan- perfect. My ability- sustained with above a 3.5 gpa. I do understand that money is tight right now, but it does put me down… not the kind of attitude I really want in my final semester.
Hence- I feel the pain, frustration, and chaos that this causes upon students. The truth is that most universities programs are grueling enough to qualify as 5 year programs now. In some instances, I think that there is not enough notice going towards students who give back to the school, put in a lot of effort to achieve, and are able to succeed. Students who strive so hard only to be let down by their financial aid or school tuition adds a lot of stress to an already stressful year/semester. It also does not promote positive attitudes and feelings towards the school when leaving. I know that if my school supported me fully, I would be more willing to support my school even after graduation. In my situation- when I started at my college it was a well hidden secret that the school had only a 14% graduation retention rate from freshmen to graduating seniors. One might think that the school would really try hard to offer more opportunities to get its freshmen to senior students graduation support.

• Link
• Report this comment