Can sex between teacher and student ever be consensual? Judge says ‘yes’ in Marietta court today
Update on the sex assault trial of ex Marietta teacher Christopher King who had a sexual relationship with a student: He’s a free man, according to breaking AJC news.
I think the judge called this one right:
“It’s gross, it’s awful, but it ain’t illegal,” said Judge Robert Flournoy “This was a consensual relationship.”
Flournoy by-passed the jury and issued a direct verdict Wednesday afternoon in the case against 36-year-old Christopher King, who admitted to having a sexual relationship with the girl.
In June, the Georgia Supreme Court reversed a sexual assault conviction against 28-year-old schoolteacher Melissa Lee Chase who had a romantic relationship with a former student. In its 5-2 decision, the court said the teacher should have been allowed to present a defense that the 16-year-old student consented to the sexual relationship. (The student had testified that she pursued the relationship and pushed it.)
The Supreme Court decision could affect two Cobb cases, including one in court today involving former Marietta High School teacher Christopher King.
During testimony this week reported by the AJC, King’s 17-year-old “girlfriend” described the relationship as consensual.
Asked by defense attorney Scott Semrau if she ever felt intimidated or coerced by 36-year-old King, the state witness responded “absolutely not.”
“Have you ever wavered on that point?” Semrau asked. “No,” the girl said.
Semrau contends the Supreme Court decision should apply to his client’s relationship with the student.
“As long as it’s consensual, there’s nothing illegal,” said Semrau. “I think it may be a bad idea, but I don’t think it should be against the law.”
When the General Assembly enacted a law making it a crime for a teacher to have sex with a student enrolled in school, it did not bar consent as a possible defense.
And while Cobb is pursuing its cases against teachers who had sex with 17-year-olds, Gwinnett DA Danny Porter told the AJC, “If you read that [state Supreme Court] opinion, it pretty well rules out any prosecution of sex between a teacher and a child over age 16. Right now, we’re trying to change the statute, but until that happens, no, I probably would not prosecute.”
Several legislators are anxious to see the law tightened, including state Rep. Rob Teilhet, who told the Marietta paper:
“The whole premise behind consent not being a defense … is that the victim is not in a position to resist, and is very vulnerable to be taken advantage of. A 16-year-old who is taken advantage of by an adult suffers long-term consequences as a result. I don’t care if the victim consented or not. The older person has a higher responsibility. Consent isn’t good enough.”
Blogger Jeff Sexton at SWGAPolitics.com has a thoughtful post on this issue in which he concludes:
I completely agree that teachers SHOULD NOT have intimate relationships with students. ..That has long been a part of our ethical standards, and teachers know the risk when they make that decision.
All I’m saying is that IF they are caught having sex with a student and are charged under this statute, the fact that it was consensual sex SHOULD be a valid defense under the law for teachers, exactly the same as it is with virtually every other person out there charged with a similar crime.
A while back, I wrote an entry about teacher-student relationships, which I never posted for fear of being beaten with brickbats. In it, I recalled a high school classmate who dated a male teacher and married him soon after graduation. As far as I know, they remain married with a bunch of kids.
While I am not advocating high school girls take their math teachers to the prom, I am unsure what to say about an 18-year-old student and a 23-year-old teacher. Certainly, the ideal would be for the pair to keep their attraction at bay and start dating post graduation. But are we ready to declare the teacher a pervert and lock him up for a decade if the couple doesn’t wait?
Today, we have longtime married couples where the husband is on a lifetime sex offender registry because he was 19 when he began dating his wife who was 15. I am not sure who is served by that.
Should the law retain a little flexibility on the consent issue?
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114 comments Add your comment
Jeff
December 1st, 2009
4:07 am
Thanks Maureen! (BTW: I’m also a long-time commenter here, though my comments here have dramatically lessened since starting SWGAPolitics.com nearly a year ago.)
Last night, I also looked at one proposed bill that aims to close the “loophole” and which raises another very interesting idea: What if we removed the consent defense for a teacher who has sex with a student at his/her school, but removed the criminality of a teacher having sex with a student from ANOTHER school? In other words, say you are a teacher at Cartersville High. If you have sex with a student that goes to Cass High (just up the street), no crime was committed under the proposed bill. HOWEVER, if you have sex with a student at Cartersville High – even one who is in none of your classes and is in no extracurriculars you supervise – the fact that it was consensual would no longer be a defense under the proposed bill.
Larry
December 1st, 2009
6:13 am
It’s a shame courts get strapped with the job of interpreting poorly written code. While Rep. Levitas’ HB886 fixes some of the current ambiguity, it still fails, as does Rep. Teilhet, to recognize the range of circumstances to which this code applies.
As the Supreme Court noted in its decision, “Consequently, a 30-year-old law school professor who engaged in a fully consensual sexual encounter with a 50-year-old law school student embarking on a second career would be guilty of a felony and subject to punishment of 10-30 years in prison.”
The only state interest in many of these situations is protecting against an act of coercion and that is what the Legislature needs to specifically define in this code section. It is Lawmakers’ responsibility to make their intent clear and not assume the laws they write will only be used in certain situations. When ADA Sheppard argued this statute was meant primarily to apply to encounters with children, Chief Justice Sears flatly told him, “But that’s not what it says.”
Sears is correct. Our Legislature needs to fix this mess and simply removing an affirmative defense isn’t the way to do it.
Jeff
December 1st, 2009
6:30 am
Larry:
Under 886, post-secondary relationships would no longer be criminalized, even for a teacher and student at the same school.
Joy in Teaching
December 1st, 2009
7:52 am
It is NEVER right for a teacher to have a sexual relationship of any kind with their student. Ever.
In fact, teachers shouldn’t even allow themselves to be put in the position of thinking they are attracted to one of their students. Ever.
It’s just ridiculous.
Sex can always wait until later. It really can.
Larry
December 1st, 2009
8:08 am
Jeff,
Oops, read right past the definition. Thank you.
V for Vendetta
December 1st, 2009
9:03 am
Maureen,
I agree with you. I knew a girl when I was in high school who began dating her current husband when she was a senior. He was a teacher and coach. They are currently married with kids and live just down the road from me–a picture perfect couple.
I’m not saying that it is OK for teachers to take advantage of their position; however, I AM saying that this is yet another example of legislated morality. Our Puritan roots come through loud and clear whenever crimes of the, er, body are involved. We need to wake up and realize that sex is something that has been around as long as we have, and it’s not going away any time soon.
I react with the same consternation towards people who are “shocked” that teens are “sexting.” Of course they are! If we had had access to that kind of technology, we would have been doing it too!
There is nothing wrong with a consensual relationship between people of age. Although it is a crime when the age drops below 17, I still think that the “consensual” defense holds water. Perhaps a teacher could be fired for such an indiscretion, but the circumstances warrant consideration.
But since so many people in this country just LOVE to tell others what to do with their bodies, I suppose we’ll always be having these types of discussions . . . .
Meme
December 1st, 2009
9:08 am
Why just teachers? I know that we are in a position to work with more young people, but what about people who employ minors and then have consensual sex with them.
V for Vendetta
December 1st, 2009
9:59 am
Meme,
Can you say “can of worms”?
Joy,
I disagree. I think by making it a black and white issue, you are removing people’s discretion from the equation. As Meme said, once again teachers are being unfairly singled out. There are TONS of fast food joints and grocery stores that employ young teens working under managers in their twenties (or thirties). Do we come down on them in the same legal fashion? I think not.
Let’s be rational here. Most people (more than the popular media portrays–ahem, OPRAH), can make the right decision when it comes to relationships, appropriateness, time and place, etc. There are a few who can’t. However, those few are just that: the vast MINORITY. Should we continue to let the state pile up morality laws and clauses on us (the teachers) for no good reason?
I hope not.
Jennifer
December 1st, 2009
10:14 am
Yes, retain flexibility.
itpdude
December 1st, 2009
10:31 am
Old enough to set the table, old enough to have some dinner.
Think
December 1st, 2009
10:34 am
To V for Vendetta,
Think….ALL LAWs attempt to legislate morality.
Sex with students is NEVER right and should always be prohibited.
Dave
December 1st, 2009
10:36 am
The best policy for a teacher is “don’t even think about this”. It is never right in a high school setting. College may be a differnt ballgame since everyone there is considered an adult, but I don’t think it is even appropriate at that level. Just my opinion. Could be wrong!
Dave
December 1st, 2009
10:39 am
Oh, I forgot to say this in response to Meme. I hear lots of the teen girls in my school talkinbg about sex with a boss, manager, etc at their places of employment. So, as you mentioned that is not right, but we can’t legislate everythning that is not right. At some point people have to make better choices instead of living for instant gratification.
V for Vendetta
December 1st, 2009
10:47 am
Think,
Yes and no. I think some laws are derived from reason and logic, with the understanding that the crime involved has violated individuals’ rights. However, other laws stem from preconceived notions of behavior derived from illogical sources–namely religion–and should be subject to scrutiny.
You are correct to assume that all laws do, to some extent, legislate morality. Though the source of that morality is up for debate. Please note that I am NOT condoning teacher/student relationships; I am merely pointing out the hipocracy involved in passing a law aimed at one particular group of people while ignoring the same behavior in the rest of society. Since we should not be legislating people’s non-criminal behavior, we should obviously not be doing that to teachers.
Should they be fired for such an offense? Absolutely!
Should they be arrested for such an offense. Not on your life.
ant banks
December 1st, 2009
10:56 am
i don’t understand why time is wasted on these types of cases? they know of several cases where catholic priests have molested thousands of boys and girls, non consentual and they let this go?
but a 36 and a 17 consenting people and you want to prosecute?
enlightenment
December 1st, 2009
11:06 am
who better to teach a nubile the birds and bees, teachers should be encouraged to make love to students, teach them safe sex, and discuss the beauty of the human body….
Consent Me
December 1st, 2009
11:09 am
In high school, I had 2-3 very hot teachers that I would have gladly “consented” to sex with.
DAVID
December 1st, 2009
11:09 am
WHAT A STUPID QUESTION……In grades one…thru 12……NEVER…NEVER…NEVER
jim d
December 1st, 2009
11:25 am
Age of consent in Georgia is 16. If you must change a law, change that one and leave teachers and students of consenting age alone.
teacher
December 1st, 2009
11:26 am
As a teacher it would never even occur to me to consider a relationship with a student beyond the traditional teacher/student. First, can I say: ughghhg blech. gross. Second, teachers are responsible for encouraging young minds, and have a lot of sway. Any teacher engaging in sex with a student is manipulating that responsibility and that student. I don’t care if the student “consents” or not, they are being manipulated. As adults, we have a responsibility to behave better and use restraint.
To me, this is a no-brainer. No sex with students ever. It is never consensual.
enlightenment
December 1st, 2009
11:28 am
Sex is natural, sex is fun, sex is best when it’s one on one…
Harry
December 1st, 2009
11:29 am
As a teenager, much of my fantasy life centered on relationships with attractive teachers. They coulda had me if they wanted me. Maybe they did.
Hot For Teacher
December 1st, 2009
11:30 am
Obviously, many of you prudes are either too old, too young, or too square to remember Van Halen’s “Hot for Teacher”. When I was 15, I would have LOVED for a hot teacher to come onto me and “seduce” me. These boys who either complain or turn the hot teacher in are either gay or not sexually mature enough to know a sexy woman when they see one.
I say, as long as it’s consensual, go nuts…….literally.
jim d
December 1st, 2009
11:32 am
enlightenment,
Not always!
Harry
December 1st, 2009
11:34 am
Later in life a much younger female subordinate at work tried to initiate a relationship, but I passed on that, because of sexual harrassment implications. I sometimes regret that missed opportunity.
jim d
December 1st, 2009
11:36 am
How about a show of hands by those that don’t believe 16 year olds are capable of innitating sexual encounters.
common sense
December 1st, 2009
11:42 am
I don’t think a teacher should ever pursue sex with a student, because it clouds their respective roles; however, legislators like Rob Teilhet, who, so coincidentally, is running for Attorney General, love to get easy votes from a public educated by Nancy Grace. Everyone is a dangerous predator! Everyone should be punished for the rest of their lives if they have sex! I was a 16-year-old girl once, and, I can state with certainty that I could rationally give consent or not for sex. In this day and age, 16-year-olds are more adult than ever. The current sex offender laws in Georgia (and elsewhere) have been shown through research (much of it by criminal justice departments) to be ineffective, and, in many cases, counter-productive. We need legislators (and Attorney Generals) who base their views on facts, not hype.
Oh get it right
December 1st, 2009
11:43 am
If you dont want the consensual sex in schools then make sure your daughters are covered up. Have you seen what they wear and believe you me, they ARE flaunting their bodies for sex. Dont blame the teachers for being interested. Their teachers and very much alive if you know what I mean.
Tanned Jack
December 1st, 2009
11:46 am
As a father of four (now grown) daughters, I have a position that sex between teachers and students should never happen. However, adding blanket criminal codes to counter specific acts of coercion concerns me even more. Empowering our children to speak up, confide in parents and counselors, and take responsibility for themselves seems far healthier.
I started asking my daughters “Who is responsible for you?” every time they left our home starting when they were each six years old. And I taught them, if something doesn’t feel right either tell me, or if I’m not there, start yelling until an adult pays attention. Punishing someone after the fact does not repair the damage that can be done. And I doubt that punishments will stop some teachers from stepping over the line.
I believe we can shine a bright light on this issue by speaking about it to the students regularly and forthrightly. Do the same with teachers. Set up ways to report suspected coercion within the system. Prevent it before it happens rather than trying to make reparations through punishment later.
Nothing substitutes for parents, children and teachers exercising personal responsibility first.
Get over it
December 1st, 2009
11:48 am
It is consensual sex, been happening in schools forever….
enlightenment
December 1st, 2009
11:49 am
If you want wild kinky sex (and who doesn’t), teachers are a close second to nurses in my humble opinion….
Robert
December 1st, 2009
11:50 am
Chanage the age of consent first!
The age of consent in Georgia is 16 as specified by Section 16.6.3 of the Criminal Code of Georgia.
SO, if a 16 yo student throws him/herself at a teacher, accept it.
I know there is that “custody” thing that complicates the issue.
I think they should make the age of consent 18 for everyone and that will solve most of the issues regarding student-teacher sex since most students are 17 and under.
Also stated in the Criminal Code of Georgia 16.6.3 subsection (c), if a person is “at least 14 but less than 16 years of age and the person convicted of statutory rape is 18 years of age or younger and is no more than four years older than the victim, such person shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.”
SO, a 14 yo can have sex with someone up to 16 and it is fine?
Is it only statutory rape if the parents find out and don’t approve?
Can someone explain, please?
All I can say is I am glad I have never had sex with a girl, seems dangerous.
Parent
December 1st, 2009
11:57 am
We have female teachers in Middle School pursuing 6th grade girls for lesbian sex, and you fools want to make that legal? These teachers are child predators, and should be locked up for life. Rene Hensley gets out of State Prison soon, the former girls volleyball coach at Walton High School who started molesting a 6th grade girl at Dickerson Middle School, and continued through 9th grade at Walton. Rene knew of other female lesbian teachers engaging in sex with middle school and high school girls, imho, but she was not required by the court to name names. As a condition of parole, she should now be required to do so.
David S
December 1st, 2009
12:00 pm
Why does the legislature of this and every other state feel the need to CRIMINALIZE consensual behavior? Drugs, gambling, prostitution, sex…if two parties are consenting to the act and nobody is getting hurt, then the only rationale for government intervention (laws) is because the legislature feels it is their place to play parent to everyone in society.
Well it is not their place, and every law on the books against consensual activity destroys personal freedom, undermines respect for all other laws, and makes a mockery of the legislative process. Further, as can easily be seen in the violence that plagues our streets as a result of the War on Drugs, there are unintended consequences that basic economics and human nature clearly predict.
Social stigmas and public ridicule are far greater deterrent to unwelcome consensual behavior than criminal prosecution. As others have already shown, turning horney teenagers into registered sex offenders and ruining their lives forever is becomming all too common and is just plain stupid.
If the legislature spent its time restoring our freedoms rather than reducing them, our state and every other state might become a shining beacon once again.
bronco
December 1st, 2009
12:09 pm
The sex is better with teachers. If you do it wrong they make you do it over again.
V for Vendetta
December 1st, 2009
12:14 pm
Parent,
No one here is talking about obviously illegal activity. Don’t get your panties in a twist.
Robert,
You want to raise the age of consent? I’m positive that will solve all of our problems–except for the fact that it won’t. All that will accomplish is burdening a bunch of teens with criminal charges for doing what teens have been doing since they first looked “down there” and thought, hmmmm . . . .
You can’t legislate your way out of consensual sex. Half the kids I teach are probably having “consensual” sex; they know what they’re doing, and they CHOOSE to do it.
I agree with David S. Victimless crimes should NOT be legislated or criminalized. It’s a simple and clear cut violation of individual rights.
Winkasdad29
December 1st, 2009
12:15 pm
Many of these teens certainly know the difference between consensual sex and being coerced. Putting a teacher in jail for years is a miscarriage of justice as far as I’m concerned. My opinion is that if a teacher has consensual sex with a student under 18 years of age, then the teacher should be suspended or fired. No jail. But then again, we are in Georgia where in 1999, laws that said consenting adults couldn’t have sex outside of intercourse were finally stricken from the books.
enlightenment
December 1st, 2009
12:17 pm
What about oral exams?
Jeff
December 1st, 2009
12:19 pm
Parent:
Behavior such as what you describe is, has been, and will continue to be illegal. The Age of Consent in GA is 16 – and while that MAY potentially get raised, I really don’t see it getting lowered.
Robert (and others): You may be interested in another post I wrote back in August when thinking about this issue then where I called for a Unified Age of Adulthood. You can find it on SWGAPolitics.com by searching for “Unified Age” in the search bar at the top of the page – unfortunately, I don’t have the ability to link right now (on my BlackBerry).
Jeff
December 1st, 2009
12:23 pm
V;
I’m pretty sure I know who David S is – a friend of mine, if I am correct about his real world identity. You should consider joining us in the Libertarian Party of Georgia – where we fight for common sense and freedom on a daily basis.
SOIssues
December 1st, 2009
12:29 pm
http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com
Deanna
December 1st, 2009
12:30 pm
I love all these comments. Every statement about consensual and morality can also be applied to same sax marriage. We are all hypocrites.
Bubba
December 1st, 2009
12:46 pm
I think there’s a big difference between a teacher who “pursues” a relationship with a student and an event in which a teacher and student find themselves in a “compromised” position.
What, too, can be made of the student who pursues a relationship with a teacher? Or who attempts to do so, fails in the attempt, and then uses “social stigmas and public ridicule” to assuage the “hurt” feelings at the failed conquest?
I don’t see this as a “black and white” issues. Some cases, sure. But I find myself asking if I would be more upset with the teacher who attempted a relationship with my daughter, or with my daughter who attempted a relationship with her teacher. I think the laws do little to address the latter. And what responsibilities do the laws say I bear for having a hussy for a daughter? None.
I have a suggestion: Have lawmakers actually put some thought in creating a law. I know, “thought” is a dangerous word in Georgia. People – especially legislators – don’t like attention being called to their lack of (applied) intelligence. Nevertheless, try it some time.
joey
December 1st, 2009
12:46 pm
Lmao! Oral exams………
sounds like another way to waste tax dollars on”silly crimes”. its all about the benjamins!
Brian
December 1st, 2009
12:48 pm
I agree with Tanned Jack as for a girl/boy are responsible for their own bodies. If your child doesn’t know the difference and right and wrong, maybe its time to have a parent/kid conference.
Schools should set up some sort of “open door” policy where something occurs, coerced specifically, then something can be done. People wake up!! We are losing our rights daily.
While I don’t think its right for a teacher to sleep with his/her students (now more and more it seems to be HER studies). Does that make them Pedophiles? NO, it doesn’t it makes them human with lustful thoughts. Should we punish them by throwing them into jail? Is this really a crime? Morality should not be legislated to the masses, however, it should be monitored and controlled. Should we lock up teachers that sleep with their consenting students NO, they should be fired and have their teaching certification pulled. And I know of several teachers that have told me that their students would come on to them. Obliviously they were smart and say “BUG off.” But it happens. Some wills are not as strong as my friends. An obvious caveat to this is the teachers that PRAY upon their students should be arrested, tried, and put away. They are abusing their power, and they are destroying a future!
We expect schools to raise our kids, and when Little Johnny or Jane gets in trouble or has sex with his/her teacher, then we are all up in arms. How about this, and I quote Crosby, Stills and Nash “Teach your children well.”
Oh for the record, I have no kids, and I am 35…..male..
David A. Staples
December 1st, 2009
12:52 pm
Jeff, I just pulled up ajc.com for the first time today. Sorry, David S above isn’t me, but I completely agree with him! I would have spelled horny correctly.
Congrats on the plug for SWGAPolitics!
My opinion is that if the relationship is consentual, I don’t care what age the participants are. Creating these types of laws aren’t protecting anyone. They’re doing more harm than good. Decriminalize prostitution, marijuana and gambling. Lower the drinking age and allow us to buy it in retail stores on Sundays. These laws of morality weren’t needed during the beginning days of our country and they’re not needed now.
Edwin Burgh
December 1st, 2009
1:01 pm
I’m not sure why this should be criminalized? If a student and his or her teacher fall within the acceptable Georgia statutes for consensual sexual activity, then has a crime been committed? Not really…
Now, ethical standards for employment are completely different. Should a teacher who has an affair, consensual or not, be fired? Absolutely! Jobs and professions have certain ethical codes and those who fail to live up to those codes should be canned, but criminalization is a reactionary response to the current obsession with punishing sex as much as possible.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if other professions whose ethical codes preclude romantic relationships with certain people – like Doctor/patient, Lawyer/Client, etc. – are similarly punished by law as well as by their respective governing and licensing bodies?
And just for the record – my parents, who are going on 42 years of very happy marriage now, met when my mother took my father’s class in college. Granted she was a few years older than he, and it was college and not secondary school, but still – the story goes to show that rigid and inflexible punishments are NEVER the answer. Judges and juries should be given some leeway when it comes to sentencing and indicting.
kt
December 1st, 2009
1:10 pm
I married my wife when she was 16. I was 21 at the time. We have been married for 21 years and have four children.I wasn’t a teacher, and she wasn’t a student. But just saying..
E
December 1st, 2009
1:47 pm
There’s a big difference between at the job and at school. There are sexual harassment and fair employment laws at work that do cover most situations regardless of age. In addition, a young person can usually seek other employment quite easily. School is a place they are required to be and often cannot change (even if they can afford to change, parents have to do that, not the child). That lends a sense of no escape around these authority figures and that can be a dangerous addition to the equation. There is no excuse. Every one of these students will graduate or drop out in a short period of time. If it is something ‘real’, it can wait until they truly have free choice. Surely something that important is worth a short wait.
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