Uniform uprising lands 1,500 Clayton teens in hot water
This is why I don’t like uniforms, especially for high school students.
Uniforms are more trouble than they’re worth in light of the research showing no impact on academic performance. It seems to me that uniforms create a policing nightmare for schools with little to no payoff.
As the AJC reported Tuesday:
Tired of school uniforms, more than 1,500 Clayton County high school students came to school on Friday in what school officials called “non-appropriate dress.”
Now the students are facing suspensions, detentions and other punishments.
After questions from the AJC, school officials confirmed on Tuesday that the district was the “target” of an organized protest.
“Based on an incomplete survey of schools, the district has determined that more than 1,500 students arrived at school on Friday in non-appropriate dress,” district spokesman Charles White said in a statement.
White declined to say how many students were suspended, but said they were all disciplined. White said that discipline varied from school to school. He said he could not comment on specifics because schools are closed all week for Thanksgiving
“In several cases, this was in direct defiance of school-level administrative instructions to students advising them to be in uniform dress or face consequence for their actions,” he said in a statement.
The students at the county’s nine high schools organized online by sending messages urging their friends to “buck the system,” White said.
The uniform boycott, called “Protest As One,” was also discussed among 782 members of a public Facebook group called “Clayton County high school students against required uniforms.”
One student organizer wrote, “they can’t suspend you all and you will be making a stand for yourself.”
But the students learned otherwise.
“Students who participated in this deliberate attempt to interrupt the school routine made a bad choice on Friday and need to be held responsible for that decision,” Superintendent Edmond Heatley said in a statement. “It should be noted that disciplinary actions were based on students’ failure to follow instructions and disrupting the school and not on being out of uniform dress.”
Most school districts that institute uniforms exempt high schools as it’s very hard to tell 18-year-olds how to dress.
Clayton ordered all elementary and middle school students last year to wear uniform dress, including khaki pants, skirts, polo shirts and sweaters of the same color. This year, the policy was expanded to high schools.
I think it was a mistake and creates needless controversy and ill will among both parents and students.
Anyone disagree?
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96 comments Add your comment
catlady
November 25th, 2009
6:11 am
I am not a big fan of uniforms, but I think Clayton Co needs a visible symbol that someone is “doing something” about the schools’ reputations. They can’t/won’t make them do homework or come to school prepared or study, but they can make them wear clothes that are uniformly (haha) decent.
As to the parent who says he cannot afford it: get two uniforms for each child, and a pair or two of jeans for off days. Uniforms are cheaper than most jeans that teens will consent to wear.
We have a dress code that is never enforced. What kind of message does that send?
drew (former teacher)
November 25th, 2009
6:27 am
I really have no strong feelings either way regarding dress code at schools, but I’m glad to see that the students bucking the system are being disciplined. Yes, the dress code creates a “policing nightmare”, like many other rules and policies…I guess we could just dump all the rules and policies that are tough to enforce, and allow students to do as they please, eh?
And you have to take into account that this is Clayton County. A few years ago, as a teacher in Clayton County, I was expected to enforce the dress code, which simply called for students to have their shirts tucked in, and their pants above their butts. I wish I had a dollar for everytime I asked a student to tuck their shirt in, or pull up their pants. This was a policing nightmare too, made worse by the fact that my administrators were unwilling to discipline students who openly and defiantly ignored both the policy and my requests to comply (this was during the Barbara Pullen era, when “improving” discipline consisted basically of ignoring misbehavior). In other words, the dress code was there, but rarely enforced, which presented students with EXACTLY the wrong message: these are the rules, but don’t worry, we’re not going to actually enforce them. And the students learned. They learned they could violate the dress code without fear of being disciplined. And many went on to learn that other rules could also be ignored without consequence. Ahhh…the joy of watching students learn!
You state that a dress code has no impact on academic performance. Are you referring to high schools only? I’m not saying it does or doesn’t, but do you have any studies to back that up?
If students/parents have a problem with “their” school systems dress policy, they need to take it to the school board that created the policy. This isn’t the 60’s…this isn’t a civil rights issue…and mass defiance should not be tolerated. The only thing worse than a school dress code, is a school dress code that’s not enforced. And if ever there was a school system in need of more discipline and order, it’s Clayton County.
Ernest
November 25th, 2009
6:31 am
Uniforms by themselves is not the solution to the discipline challenges many schools face. They send a psychological message to the students that a ‘business like’ environment exists for the purpose of education. For them to work, it will take most of the ’silent majority’ of parents to support this policy and not allow the voices of dissenters (usually a vocal minority) to undermine the intent. If enforcement of the policy falls solely on the school administration and there is defiance to the policy, it will fail.
benman
November 25th, 2009
7:52 am
Most schools that have a “dress” issue have other problems to go along with it. Uniforms are the beginning of a school administration taking back their school. Most schools that institute a uniform policy have gang problems, thuggish behavior, etc. in the school. People who yell against uniforms need to realize you have to start somewhere.
Maureen Downey
November 25th, 2009
7:57 am
Drew, I don’t have access to all my archives on uniforms from this home computer, but here is one well respected study on school uniforms: Maureen
Uniform uprising lands 1500 Clayton teens in hot water | Get Schooled School’s Rate
November 25th, 2009
8:39 am
[...] here to see the original: Uniform uprising lands 1500 Clayton teens in hot water | Get Schooled By admin | category: school uniform | tags: are-more, research, the-research | The Sad [...]
Amanda
November 25th, 2009
8:40 am
Wearing uniforms is a step in the right direction. There seems to be a problem with us as adults enforcing rules upon our children. In the real world which these high schoolers will soon be a part of there are rules and regulations and just because you are “18″ it does not exclude you from following the law of the land. Instead of focusing on why they should not be forced to wear uniforms lets focus on what we can do to stop the children from having sex in school!!!!. Parents need to see what children wear to school, its deplorable. I have 5 children in Clayton County Schools and with some of the clothes that the young ladies wear I don’t see how my sons or teachers can focus on the essentials of the day.
Lets Focus On The Real Problems With Our Children…. and uniforms are not it.
Reality Mom
November 25th, 2009
8:57 am
Uniforms let you know who belongs on campus, take away the “keeping up with the Jones’s and make it MUCH easier to get out the door in the morning. It can also instill a feeling of pride in where you go to school and who you are. All places of employment has a dress code and some even make you WEAR A UNIFORM!
Amanda, maybe if there was a uniform requirement, teenage boobies would stay in and boys minds would stay on the school work.
Edugator
November 25th, 2009
9:02 am
DeKalb County’s foray into mandatory uniforms started former Superintendent Johnny Brown on his journey to unemployment. Schools need a reasonable dress code, but uniforms for all goes against our cranky,independent nature as Americans. As noted earlier, uniforms are no more than a coat of paint covering up other problems.
A few magnet schools that mandate uniforms satisfy that need for parents who want it, but mandating it for all is wrong. Good luck with the protest movement. Its a great lesson in civics.
Maureen Downey
November 25th, 2009
9:08 am
Reality Mom, I can agree with you that uniforms counter the revealing clothing problem but disagree on the “keeping up with the Joneses.” Having gone to 12 years of school in a uniform, there were still many ways for affluence to surface, from shoes, to belts, to jewelry, to purses, to coats. We did not call it “bling,” but we were certainly aware of and impressed by the accessories that classmates wore and the vacations they took. Uniforms may make kids look more alike, but I think they are still able to tell who has stuff and who doesn’t.
Maureen
Philosopher
November 25th, 2009
9:23 am
I am very proud of the students who had the guts to protest this stupidity! It took exactly this kind of action for girls to get the freedom to wear something besides dresses to school! Uniforms are a bandaid over a very big booboo, they are one more step towards making little non-thinking robots out of children…hundreds of little followers. They are one more control-freak, feel-good measure on the part of adults that states loud and clear “we don’t want you to be individuals, think for yourselves or be different in any way…we want you docile and unthinking… just like cattle. Uniforms do not hide social status…kids always know who’s poor and who’s not…and kids need to learn to accept and deal with that. Uniforms do not prevent gangs…gangs have no trouble letting kids know who they are and who they are affiliated with. This is NOT a military society and we are a people who have the right to be individuals. And if you don’t let kids show their individuality in their dress, they’ll find it in some MUCH less acceptable way. Hell, folks why are you so willing to make little clones out of children? Remember when you first started letting your toddler pick out his own clothes…they didn’t match, and plaid and polkadots looked beautiful to them…but over time, they learned what was acceptable and what you would let them out the door wearing. Well, here we go again…kids need to learn wear acceptable clothes, within your budget…and for that matter, how to care for them, too. Uniforms are a lazy, irresponsible way for adults to avoid dealing with life’s important issues…just another abdication of parental obligation to their kids.
And last, all you right wingers that had your protest tea parties…did you get punished for that? Weren’t you proud of that? Well, if you squelch your kids now, they’ll never have the guts to stand up and protest injustice when it’s real and it matters. Hitler succeeded with his diabolical death machine because the people were FOLLOWERS!
dbow
November 25th, 2009
9:34 am
As a former admin myself, I can state without a doubt, uniforms are a waste of time and effort. I wasted so much of my own time and the time of the teachers with this nonsense that it boggles the mind. All it takes is one teacher to not enforce the rules and the whole school is thrown into an uproar. And that’s exactly what happened. Teachers get mad at us because they think we’re not enforcing the dress code when in fact we are, but when it’s the same student time and again, it’s not us it’s the parents that refuse to comply. As much as I would love to suspend the parents, that’s a little beyond my authority.
Philosopher
November 25th, 2009
9:39 am
Reality Mom: if you think ANYTHING is going to keep teenage boys’ minds off teenage girls’ “boobies”, you must not have a teenage boy!
free market educator
November 25th, 2009
9:40 am
Clayco kids, just solve the problem like one Berkeley student did in the seventies; go to school naked. Yep, the school could find no constitutional reason to make him wear clothes.
dbow
November 25th, 2009
9:44 am
This is a off the topic, but I haven’t seen this issue addressed anywhere. In my district it is unofficial “official” policy to allow multiple retakes on summative assignments until the students have passed. This also applies to missed homeworks and other formative work as well. Now we have no zero policy being thrust down our throats. Of course there’s no study’s to show that any of this benefits the student, but the district is pushing it anyway. I did a little unscientific survey of the parents of my students to get their thoughts. I couldn’t find one parent that thought it was right. So what does anyone else think?
live.love.eat.
November 25th, 2009
9:51 am
I have always figured uniforms were to keep the student population “uniform.” I thought it was an attempt to deter students from thinking they were superior to others because of the way they dressed (however it isnt working that well students still manage to differentiate themselves). If you are arguing about individuality one word: personality.
Philosopher
November 25th, 2009
10:06 am
live.love.eat.-Yes personality- it takes a healthy personality to stand up for what is right and against what is wrong. Squelching”personality” over and over again with messages like don’t question, don’t think, don’t protest, you must dress like and act like everyone else, diminishes that healthy personality. Because, eventually, most of them “get” that message. The “don’t think for yourself “message becomes ingrained ( it is, after all, a much easier path) and when the important crossroads comes and they have to make a decision…they follow the crowd, right or wrong!
zoe
November 25th, 2009
10:09 am
For the record, it was not until your article surfaced that teachers were even aware of the “protest.” If a protest goes unheard until someone creates a story about it by friending a kid on facebook to find out about a wall post almost a month old, is it still a protest? The kids that came to school out of uniform were the exact same ones that did it daily. The uniform policy came about because there was no enforcement of the previous dress code. I’m of the mind, let them wear what they want. The only problem is that many of our girl students would come to school looking like they are auditioning to work at the Pink Pony Southside and the boys would walk around with their pants down to their knees showing off drawers. I looked up the facebook group you quoted, many were names of kids that do not even go to school in Clayton County or have graduated. Even with you publicizing the group in the article, I still don’t see many new converts.
Philosopher
November 25th, 2009
10:15 am
A very sincere query. Why, if a child comes to school “dressed like a Pink Pony Southside employee, or a boy wears his pants with the crotch down to his knees, are they not removed from the classroom, the parents called and the child not allowed back into the classroom until minimum dresscode requirements are met?
high school teacher
November 25th, 2009
11:21 am
Philosopher, chances are that there are bigger fish to fry.Clothing takes a back seat to fighting, stealing, etc. Obviously, however, given time, those small fish grow bigger.
In the ideal school that exists in my head, uniforms are a great idea – right up there with optional public school after the age of 14.
Philosopher
November 25th, 2009
11:53 am
As I see it from 22 years of dealing with public schools, you’re not the only one who would be happy with it…It seems many teachers would be happy if we dressed the kids in uniforms with velcro closures, put them in straight jackets, duct taped their mouths shut, restrained them in wheelchairs and rolled them in at 8 and out at 3. The issue isn’t about clothing… it’s about the propensity to control instead of to teach…and the very serious consequences as a result.
high school teacher
November 25th, 2009
11:57 am
Please understand that I am not a part of your aforementioned category. For me it’s not necessarily about control but about eliminating distractions, which is why I favor a non-compulsory educational system.
Elsie
November 25th, 2009
12:00 pm
I have only anecdotal “evidence”, but here’s my two cents’ worth. I work on a K-12 campus with required uniforms. Several times each year, we have “dress down” days for various reasons. Behavior takes a nosedive on those days! I would support our uniform policy for no more reason than this. As for expressing individuality, our students have a limited choice in their uniforms, and they are allowed to accessorize within certain guidelines. And the “policing nightmare”? Policing uniforms is no more difficult than policing any other dress code.
Surely we are not suggesting that we abandon any rules that the students “just don’t like” or that are inconvenient for the adults. What sort of modeling is that?
Philosopher
November 25th, 2009
12:23 pm
high school teacher: Sorry- I really didn’t get that…my mistake, entirely.
And, of course, there have been many,great (real) teachers…but sadly, the domineering, controlling, “don’t question me”, “outlaw it rather than make it a teaching opportunity” types leave so much damage in their wakes.
just browsing
November 25th, 2009
12:30 pm
Philosopher you are so right. What is often not embraced in the expensive curricula used in by so many districts, are opportunities that would enable students to think critically and perhaps make better decisions- even those related to dress code. So much emphasis in Georgia schools is on PR and making classrooms appear to be healthy learning environments, as opposed to developing in students the ability to challenge and again- develop the intellect to think critically and consequently make better decisions which could yield numerous future benefits. Georgia does not want that for its students, nor its teachers.
just browsing
November 25th, 2009
12:33 pm
Philosopher- you can thank high stakes testing for all of that. If we developed critical thinking- real critical thinking- tests would take care of themselves. There is a lot to be gained for learning from diverse perspectives and opinions- little creativity garnered from group think.
just browsing
November 25th, 2009
12:34 pm
Philosopher you are so right. What is often not ingrained in he expensive curricula used in so many districts, are opportunities that would enlighten students with the ability to think critically and perhaps make better decisions- even those related to dress code. So much emphasis in Georgia schools is on PR and making classrooms appear to be healthy learning environments, as opposed to developing in students the ability to challenge and again- think critically. Georgia does not want that for its students, nor its teachers.
WTH?
November 25th, 2009
12:35 pm
Glad to see Clayton county is yet again setting a great example for the rest of the state…What better way to keep the kids excited about coming to school. Making them stay home (suspension) because they aren’t wearing the right the clothes? And the purpose of uniforms is so that learning is distracted by what kids are wearing….I’m sure they’ll learn a lot more staying at home than they would learn in school in street clothes.
By the way, has crime, disciplinary actions, or absenteeism decreased since uniforms were mandatory?
lets call a spade a spade
November 25th, 2009
12:39 pm
Don’t worry, I’m sure the boys will be wearing a “uniform” in a couple of years anyway. Btw what are the demographics of Clayton County schools?
Just a Thought
November 25th, 2009
1:08 pm
Maureen, I am all for research. However, I work in a Clayton County high school and experience has proven that uniform dress (which is very different from uniforms) makes a HUGE difference. I have been in Clayton several years (6 superintendents ago) and the previous dress code policy was a disaster. Part of that instability had to do with factors beyond our control as we went through one administration after another. It is hard to establish any kind of culture for discipline or learning when the top boss changes every year. Uniform dress is what we needed to help get a grip on some of the dress code chaos. Trust me, it was just as much of a “policing” problem as you might think uniform dress is now, if not more. That policy had no teeth and was much more frustrating to deal with as a teacher than the one we have now. This one is worth the hassle. In addition, nearly every elite private school in the Metro area requires uniforms. It has to have some bearing on creating an environment conducive with learning.
The students are starting to see the difference too. Self-presentation is important. Our kids were losing sight of that and uniform dress has helped to restore a sense of self-respect and care in one’s appearance. Some may say this is not the school’s responsibility but we can’t have it both ways. Either we deal with these gaps in their development as best we can or we let them continue to think it’s okay to come to school looking like wanna be rap stars and video queens. Not every kid dressed this way but the ones who did WERE a distraction. This year alone I’ve seen the same “thug” young men from last year come to school dressed in button down collared shirts, vests, and khakis. That is by choice as “dressing up” is not required but they CHOOSE to. How can this be a bad thing?
We recently visited another metro Atlanta high school for a game. It was a school day and our kids were quick to comment on how unkempt the students looked. Even though they don’t like uniform dress, they saw what a difference it made. This is a step in the right direction. It helps our kids see that we take learning seriously and that there are STANDARDS when you come to school. Don’t begrudge us that.
Maureen Downey
November 25th, 2009
1:17 pm
Just a thought, I think you make great points and I, too, have noticed that kids in uniforms present a crisper image and certainly suggest greater professionalism. However, if all that is changing with uniforms is appearance and not achievement and, if students are resistant, as some apparently are, I think we have to ask, “Is this worth it?”
From the comments here, there is no consensus on whether uniforms improve a school. However, you make a great case that uniforms have helped your school and have been well received by students for the most part. I think your school ought to stay with them.
Maureen
Philosopher
November 25th, 2009
1:45 pm
Just a Thought; See how well children can conform? I find that scary, myself.
There should always be a middle ground, known as compromise, that lets a kid figure out what is acceptable and what isn’t, and consequences for the unacceptable. That way, when they become adults, they don’t always have to wait for someone to tell them the next step.
I get really scared when people are so quickly ready to give up simple basic rights in order to maintain an image. Whose image? A school full of children all dressed up in uniforms conjures up an image of the schools in Nazi Germany to me, So who decides which image is best? And speaking of images…a dirty, wrinkled uniform that’s too big or too small, isn’t a very pretty image…do you have rules on that, too?
Just a Thought
November 25th, 2009
1:55 pm
You are right Maureen. The opinions on this issue are divided as is the research. Maybe the benefits of uniform dress can’t be tied down to a statistic. Maybe the benefits are much more intangible. In this age of NCLB, the intangible things just don’t seem to matter much. Uniform dress seems to be a step in the right direction to creating a positive culture in Clayton County schools. A baby step…but an important one nonetheless. Have a great day!
Philosopher
November 25th, 2009
2:17 pm
How quickly we give away basic rights for the sake of an image! And whose image, by the way, do we choose? You like the crisp, look-alike image of uniforms. For me, a schoolyard full of kids in uniform conjures up an image of the schools of Nazi Germany. And what about that crisp, clean uniform image…a wrinkled, dirty, too small or too big uniform isn’t a very pretty sight…do you have rules about that, too?
Here’s another teaching opportunity lost to conformity and control. Kids should be given room to make decisions within a clear set of guidelines and held accountable for bad choices. Teach them this as kids and when they are adults, they’ll have the tools necessary to make good choices. Otherwise they just float around waiting for direction…anyway the wind blows.
Alch
November 25th, 2009
2:33 pm
Post of the day…Just a Thought!!! Amen!! I couldn’t have said it better.
Philosopher
November 25th, 2009
3:06 pm
Maureen- the posteater is at it again…
Philosopher
November 25th, 2009
3:53 pm
There have been excellent points made on both sides of this issue today and a wonderful tolerance for opposing positions. It is heartening to see it happen!
And…since I am obviously quite opinionated…here I go again.
My father and grandfathers and uncles fought in World War II and in Korea. All of them impressed on me the importance of questioning ANYTHING, however “crisply” and prettily presented, that took away any basic right. They told me what they saw and about people who were without the rights and freedoms we enjoy and how easy it is to take them for granted and to lose them. They imparted a will and a promise that I stand up for individual freedoms and never blindly accept excuses to take them away…and that I warn my children not to become so complacent as to stop questioning. This is the ONLY way that America will continue to remain FREE and strong. Beware that you do not inadvertently produce an entire generation of crisp, clean little sheep…there’s a lot more to lose here than a pretty image.
In a school assignment, my daughter wrote a letter telling us why she is thankful for us. Like any good parent, it made me tear up. This is every teacher’s dream student, never misbehaves, always gets her work done and makes straight “A”’s…(and yes, it does worry me, but I have 2 others to keep me humble). But the most touching part of the letter was when she thanked us for expressing our opinions, teaching her to express hers, and for teaching her not to be a follower! One of my proudest parent moments!
Happy Thanksgiving, all.
Singing to the Choir
November 25th, 2009
4:24 pm
to dbow, there have been posts on the grading issues you are describing. I wonder if you are in Cobb County. This is the policy that Cobb is now following. It started with the fuzzy math and has spread to other subjects.
I would say the policy works if you could create lesson plans for each child. So child A that has mastered the data moves on, but child B is taught the lesson again until he/she can master the data. We all know that is a dream world unless you homeschool your child.
say what?
November 25th, 2009
6:20 pm
For the students and the parents protesting I find that I live in a county with a bunch of morons. when I moved to Clayton 14 years ago it was better. Now we have people with an online protest about “tyranny and oppression of ADULTS”. Since when are minors under the age 18 considered adults? Did you mean being oppressed by adults. Stay in school and learn something more than the assinine belief that somewhere civil rights are being violated because students cannot choose what to wear. In the real world dress codes are enforced on real jobs, so this is training for the real world. For those who cannot cut it you have a choice of two uniforms if you cannot focus on education- jail uniform or fast food.
I do think that Friday should be a regular dress day, but until the rule/policy is changed, my minor children will be in uniforms. Parents should work to change the policies.
d
November 25th, 2009
6:57 pm
I don’t care if we have a uniform or not, but I think the students need to be dressed for the environment that they are in. My personal opinion is that the purpose of school is to prepare you for the world outside of school. That being said, many companies will allow you to wear appropriately fitting blue jeans to work, so why are jeans usually banned from a uniform school? I think you can get a pair of five-pocket Levis, Wranglers, Lee, whatever that fit properly and have a decent shirt (t-shirt, polo, again whatever) that fits properly and still let these kids be kids while preparing them for the real world. I’ve gotten to the point when I see a boy’s boxers, I say “nice boxers, hide them for me please,” or I will take the high road “Would you mind pulling up your pants, I don’t really want to have to go through the hassle of writing you up to send you to ISS today. Thank you.” Now I will say there was a young lady at my school a couple of weeks ago whose skirt was way too short for the school environment and her grandmother said that she didn’t see a problem with it. There’s the problem. Most of these kids, even if they have jobs, aren’t buying these clothes for the kids. I also am tired of hearing kids with a 32 inch waist say they’re not comfortable wearing pants any smaller than a 38.
On the plus side, since California is a trend-setter, I will note that I was there over the summer for a week and saw exactly two young men sagging their pants, so maybe it’s nearly over.
Ole Guy
November 25th, 2009
8:50 pm
Philo, Erny said it best…”PROFESSIONALISM”…I would think all the other issues discussed are somewhat superflous. Concerns of turning kids into robots, denied the opportunity of self-expression are, with respects to your esteemed standing in the ed elite community, pure nonesense. In fact, when it boils down to the very reason we, property tax payers, send these kids to the world of public academe, skills of self-expression are definetely not what we need. We need generations who both can and will absorb and digest the skills needed to sustain (what once was) global prominence…I can guarantee that self-expression “skills” alone will not achieve this goal. First things first, Philo. Letum wait until their college years to express themselves, unless, of course, they decide to go to one of our military academies which produce, as you would I.D. them, ROBOTS.
Sleep well tonight, Philo…we robots will always be on the line.
Christina
November 25th, 2009
9:20 pm
I would like to say THANK GOD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!. I am a happy parent that uniforms is required for all grades. What make high school any different from elementary or middle school? I dont see a different. The reason some of our kids is so disrespectful is because there own parents is supporting what there kids is doing wrong, I think they should have been discipline for breaking the rules.. Uniforms is the best thing that has happened to clayton county. Its a shame that some of our parents will allow there kids to be so rude and disrepectful. Im sure if the kids disobey the teachers and the school, im sure they disrespect there parents and get away with it. Parents should be tired of seeing there kids with the drop down pants where you see there underwear. I dont want to see it cause its a mess. thats why so many kids are not finishing school because the parents will not make them follow simple rules as wear a uniform. How will they hold a job if you cant follow rules, how will they get a scholarship and go to college, or better yet who will want to deal with someone who cant follow rules. Its funny how we let our kids get away with so much that is wrong, but cant encourage them to do right. In reference to the comment it is hard to make a 18 year old wear uniform, thats insane. Can you all not control your kids or do some rule the household and the parent is the child? 18 dont make you grown last I checked. You cant find a real job ate 18, cant get your own credit without a co-signer and better yet you stiil need your parents information to go to college. So tell me how can you not make your 18 year follow your rules if living in your house. What is this world coming to? Parents we have to step up and help our teachers, schools, principles, superintendent, and kids in order for things to get better. The kids needs to stay in a kids place and respect there superiors. They are not in charge the parents are , so start acting like it. I want my kids to achieve, go to college, be sucessful and not struggle as hard. What about you all? The county is not asking for much except wear uniforms. Why cant we enforce that in our homes? Yet we let our kids wear too tight pants with everything hanging out, dropp down pants, and just everything showing, but they too good to wear school uniforms. SUPPORT THE COUNTY, I DO AND I THINK THEY MADE A EXCELLENT DECISION.
Wounded Warrior
November 25th, 2009
9:57 pm
Uniforms might work in the younger grades, but not for high school. The students have a right to their opinion. Seems like the Board needs to worry about the caliber of teachers they are highing…teachers fighting, teachers putting hits on students, and also letting students alone to have sex? Since when is it ok to have a graduate around minors?
What about the students’ whose parent have lost their job? What is in place for those students? Unless the school uniforms are furnished, then they shouldn’t be enforced. I have recently lost my job and couldn’t go out and buy some specific clothes. I have to shop second hand at this time.
Speaking of Uniforms…the AJC ran an article about the School Board getting a Homeland Security Grant for the bus drivers to have uniforms. Since when was the last time did a bus get hijacked by a terriorist? All or none of the administrators should wear uniforms. Leadership starts at the top, and should lead by example.
Wounded Warrior
November 25th, 2009
9:58 pm
mine got lost.
Wounded Warrior
November 25th, 2009
10:03 pm
Simple…All or non of the administrators should wear the uniforms. Lead by example and should start at the top. High School students should be allowed to wear what they want, considered that they are covered.
The bus drivers’ got a grant from Homeland Security for their uniforms. When was the last time that a terrorist hijacked a bus in Clayton Co.? A little humor…
HR needs to re-evaluate the low caliber teachers they have hired, more than uniforms. The Jerry Springer Show type of women fighting over a man, students left alone to have sex in trailors, and teacher threatening a student to have him killed.
Are there vouchers for students whose parents have lost jobs in this hard economy? What is done for these students?
Wounded Warrior
November 25th, 2009
10:04 pm
Low HR moves regarding the low caliber of teachers needs to be addressed instead of this stupid uniform thing.
Wounded Warrior
November 25th, 2009
10:07 pm
Why isn’t my full opinion posted? I am a graduate of clayton county, back when they were accredited…if we disagree or find some humor in a story the AJC posts, then our opinion doesn’t matter? Clayton county’s troubles can directly go to HR, and affirmative action.
Philosopher
November 25th, 2009
11:38 pm
Christina: Jesus loved the rabble rousers…and He frequently chastised the rule makers. Gotta love Him! I never said a thing about breaking all the rules…don’t put words in my mouth…those are yours and you have every right to produce little yes-people if you like. I said teach them to question within the framework of necessary rules and teach them to think for themselves.
Ole Guy, By the time kids get to college, they are already indoctrinated…too late.
Gary Klahr
November 26th, 2009
12:02 am
I agree with Philosopher. The rest of you DON”T GET IT at all. I am no kid–I am a 67 yr old retired lawyer who served EIGHT YEARS on the Governing Bd of the 2nd largest HS district in the nation (the 25k Phx Union district). We are an inner-city, mostly-minority district, and WE HAD NO PROBLEM ENFORCING A REGULAR DRESS CODE.. You-all are confusing DRESS CODES—which we ALL FAVOR—and uniforms which I will FIGHT TO THE DEATH!!!!. Read Dr. Brunsma’s second book on Uniforms on how Long Beach, Cal HS kids threatened SUICIDE if the the Board made them wear unis. If your Bd wants unis—allow PARENT (not kid) opt-out as in Calif., Wisc. Mass., NYC & Miami, Florida among other “small” places. As noted many foolish parents & kids LIKE unis—fine; wear them—but LEAVE US GOOD KIDS & RESPONSIBLE PARENTS ALONE. If you-all want to see unis—go to CUBA< CHINA or NORTH KOREA. As JFK said (in another context)—"We must make the world safe for diversity." and "Patriotism must be inspired—NOT coerced."
As for TWO of the phony arguments for unis (for ALL the myths, see the PARENTS website—www.aprod.org)–1) NONE of the hundreds of parents I have worked with in THIRTY states have EVER wanted to send their kids in fancy, fashion-show clothes to "one up" other kids. That is ZERO in TEN years of fighting mand unis. I'm sure it DOES happen (rarely)—but MY clients JUST want to send their kids in APPROPRIATE, traditional street clothes worn for 100 years in the South & West especially—-logo & striped tee shirts and WELL-FITTED denim jeans. They will sue, protest and do CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE if forced to wear this preppy uniform of polos & khakis; they are perfectly-appropriate clothes for school —but SO ARE tees & jeans.
2) It is just FALSE that regular dress codes are NOT enforceable. NO SCHOOL SHOULD TOLERATE GIRLS SHOWING CLEAVAGE OR BOYS SHOWING UNDERWEAR from droopy pants. Contra to all the nonsense above, a regular dress code—as Philosopher points out—DOES ALREADY prohibit THAT without uniforms—and experience in Phx and 99 pct of U.S. schools show that such codes ARE enforceable; they do NOT lead to litigation & controversy such as you will get with uniforms. U.S. schools spent $100 million combined 40 years ago to expel straight-A boys with LONG HAIR—do you REALLY want to go through THAT waste of $$ again???????
So in conclusion, I actually AGREE with the pro-uni crowd that many (NOT most) kids dress badly and they need to be severely punished if they continue. BUT uniforms (at least w/o opt-out) GROUP-PUNISH the majority GOOD kids too. THAT IS NOT THE AMERICAN WAY.
Anyone wanting help to stop fully-mand unis, write me at GaryK57647@aol.com or call (602)-265-3150./s/ GARY PETER KLAHR, J.D., Phoenix.
notaracist
November 26th, 2009
9:44 am
A school is a place for learning, not a fashion show. To the person who says that he/she can not afford a uniform, probably has paid more for jeans and hoodies. Furthermore, a kid can express their individuality, when off campus. Parents please lets get to what is really important, that being educating our children. While I believe that there are somethings we must stand firm against with our kids, School Uniforms are not one or them.
Educator
November 26th, 2009
9:49 am
“It’s a board-mandated policy,” she said Tuesday night. “It’s about student achievement and not what you wear.”
“I think it helps them to focus much better,” said Yolanda Williams, who has a student at Drew and another at a Clayton elementary school. “You have a lot of kids who are geared toward fashion as opposed to learning. That [uniforms] helps a whole lot, but only if we can get all the parents to participate. Some parents don’t want their kids to participate.”
It looks to me as though they failed in their purpose. The uniform requirement has distracted from student achievement since the focus has become the uniform issue and nothing else.
Just a Thought
November 26th, 2009
1:34 pm
Uniform dress is one focus but I assure you not the only one. In schools you primarily have two concerns: 1) academics and 2) discipline/behavior. Uniform dress falls under number two. It is only being made a big issue in the media. As another Clayton teacher stated, we were not even aware of a “protest” until the article appeared in the AJC. While I think the issue is a good topic for discussion, the impact of the actual “protest” is being made to be much more than it really is. If you combine all the thousands of students in Clayton high schools, 1500 is not a large number. That means the majority of the students were in uniform dress. I frequent the AJC because I like to get an idea of what’s going on. However, I am careful to remember that newspapers only cover a story…they can rarely grasp the complexity or depth of what is really going on. Hence taking an “angle” of a story. Don’t get wrapped up in the hype.
Christina
November 26th, 2009
4:39 pm
Its amazing parents that we can fo;;ow rules at our jobs to wear uniforms when required, but we cant make our kids wear uniforms. Thats why so many of our young teens are in jail now because they cant follow simple rules and the parents is too afraid to make them . Well there is still jails being built so keep letting your kids do what they want, the state will own them one day and its no body fault but the PARENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sarge
November 26th, 2009
6:45 pm
Educator, what did you write…”Some parents don’t want their kids to participate” (in the uniform issue)? I’ll bet far more than a few parents do not wish to pay taxes, drive the speed limit or clean the gutters at least once a year, HOWEVER…either they should, or they MUST. If the parent were to employ a doctor, lawyer, or other professional on behalf of the kid, I would suspect the professional has the first, middle and last word as to the conduct of the professional service provided. If parents are to become involved, to such an extent, in school policy, than what’s the point in even hiring ed professionals? Let the kids and the parents run the show, and everyone, in theory, will be happy for ever after. When are these “educators” going to develop the “professional spheroids” to say, both to parents and students, “THIS IS THE WAY IT IS AND THIS IS THE WAY IT IS…PERIOD!
Philosopher
November 26th, 2009
10:28 pm
You are quite welcome to produce little yes-people if you like. I never said anything about teaching kids to break rules. What I said was, they need to question within a reasonable framework, learn from their mistakes and learn to think for themselves. It is such a bogus assumption that if kids think for themselves, the parents MUST have been permissive and the kids worthless. Hogwash! If done right, what you get are mature, productive, thoughtful adults. My kids are neither rude nor disrespectful and although they didn’t wear uniforms, one is about to finish college and one grad school… they both have excellent jobs, too…fancy that!
Terrry
November 27th, 2009
12:23 am
Uniforms do not make a difference whatsoever except to assist in creating sheeple.
Gary Klahr
November 27th, 2009
3:28 am
Enter your comments here — Philosopher is CORRECT; uniforms are CLEARLY UNNCESSARY and unduly-oppressive rules. Just ENFORCING REGULAR DRESS CODES permitting diverse clothes like tee shirts and well-fitted jeans solves the problems raised by the other posters here. It is ABSURD to claim that a dress code can’t be enforced—but a STRICTER uni can be!!! Khaki uni pants can be worn JUST AS OVERSIZED and baggy/saggy as jeans; further the 3 buttons on polos allow MORE skin to be shown than kids wearing the now-banned neckbanded tee shirts. Kids in the South & West have worn tees & jeans to school for over 100 years; WE are the conservatives; you pro-uniformers are the RADICALS!!
I have NO objection to expelling repeat dress-code violators—but GOOD kids wearing APPROPRIATE non-uniform street clothes should be allowed to do so; We do NOT believe in GROUP-PUNISHMENT in this country. If some of you are so fond of uniformity, PLEASE emigrate to CUBA, NORTH KOREA or CHINA—you will see all the kids “neatly-dressed in uniforms” THERE!!! I serbbved 8 yeasrs on a HS Governing Bd and we were WELL-able to enforce proper dress w/o uniforms. I hope the kids in Clayton just flat-refuse to wear unis; are the authorities going to SHOOT them like at Kent State in 1970? As pointed out, DeKalb tried unis and finally ousted the Sup’t who brought them in. I will help any kids wanting to fight unis and their PARENTS; student clothing should be a PARENT decision—not a GOVERNMENT one. I can be reached at GarryK57647@aol.com or (602) 265-3150./s/ GARY PETER KLAHR, J.D., Phoenix
Gary Klahr
November 27th, 2009
3:30 am
Enter your comments here That e-mail is incorrect as printed–it is GaryK57647@aol.com (one “r”)
ScienceTeacher671
November 27th, 2009
9:10 am
Gary Klahr, it seems to me that two of your points – the one about enforcing dress codes with “APPROPRIATE” street clothing being okay, and the idea that student clothing should be a parent decision rather than a “GOVERNMENT” one – are in contradiction to each other.
Whether uniforms are required or “appropriate” street clothing is allowed, an entity (in this case the school) is imposing its idea of what is and is not appropriate on others.
Ole Guy
November 27th, 2009
10:31 am
Gary, if you truly feel that a uniform standard would be unduly oppressive, than, come Monday when you report to “the man”, you might demonstrate your fervor by doning your ball cap, jeans and sweats. After all, you’ll just be expressing your individuality, just as you probably learned it in your basic education years.
Philosopher
November 27th, 2009
5:30 pm
Ole Guy: “if you truly feel that a uniform standard would be unduly oppressive, than, come Monday when you report to “the man”, you might demonstrate your fervor by doning your ball cap, jeans and sweats. After all, you’ll just be expressing your individuality, just as you probably learned it in your basic education years.”
That is such a fallacious argument! These are kids…not employees. If you teach them to use critical thinking skills as kids, when they get to be adults or have a job that requires a uniform dress codes, they will be smart enough and mature enough to dress appropriately. We are not talking about dogs that need to be trained…we are supposed to be raising, thinking, problem-solving humans.
Gary Klahr
November 27th, 2009
7:13 pm
Answering my opponents—-To “notaracist”—I AGREE that school is NOT a fashion show—and I INSIST—based on TEN years of fighting uniforms in 30+ states—that NONE of the protesters want such. My clients do NOT spend big bucks on designer jeans and hoodies; they do NOT want to express some kind of “freak individuality” as you imply; they JUST want to send their kids in ORDINARY kid street clothes worn since K. WHY do TEE SHIRTS and PROPERLy-fitted jeans OFFEND you so much?????
TO Just a Thought.”—Contra to the FALSE IMAGE of rebellious kids & irresponsible parents, the VAST MAJORITY obey even STUPID, unconstitutional rules; that does NOT mean the “rule” is fair, ncessary or right. In America—the “default” rule is FREDOM—not restrictions; they are imposed only when necessary. That is why I DO favor REGULAR DRESS CODES like 90+ pct of U.S. schools.
To CHRISTNA—You will be shocked to learn that surveys show that almost ALL uni protesters are the BEST & THE BRIGHTEST; gang members & criminals NEVER protest unis; indeed in Phoenix, two uniformed girls torched their classroom and one boy stole a car after school while STILL in his uniform. Very few jobs require unis—just dress codes; indeed it is fast food that requires adults to wear unis; at INTEL & APPLE, engineers CAN work in tee shirts if they want (most don’t). A survey in Sacramento among middle-schoolers showed that the average GPA of kids who were OPTED-out of unis there—as permitted by Calif. law—was ONE WHOLE GRADE HIGHER than the conformists who WORE the uniforms. SURPRISED?? And I do NOT support irresponsible parents; if parents let their kids violate the REGULAR dress code, they should LOSE their opt-out and be REQUIRED to wear unis!!! But why do you want to PUNISH THE GOOD KIDS– who ALREADY wear appropriate clothes –with unis, mam????????
TO SARGE—In America (except in the military), CITIZENS make the decisions for themselves—not experts. Choosing school clothes is a FAMILY decision—not a communal one to be made for everyone by the Government;–school bds are NOT fashion mavens.
To scienceTeacher671—My position is NOT inconsistent. I am a MODERATE—not an extremist on this issue; the radicals are the pro-uniformers. Schools have ALWAYS had rules barring indecent or disruptive clortthing; such is legal and should be ENFORCED. What is NOT proper are “dress codes/uniform” rules than ban CLEARLY-appropriate TRADITIONAL clothing worn by kids in Atlanta since K—and by kids in the South & West for 100 years+—such as PROPERLY-fitted tee shirts & jeans.
And to Ole Guy–Your sarcasm is inappropriate; as stated, I am NOT an Extremist on this issue; I am the moderate on school dress, having been part of the “Man” most of my life (I was an Employer, City Councilman and School Bd member as well as a JP Pro-Tem.) I personally am one of the FEW males in this country that doesn’t even OWN a pair of jeans OR a tee-shirt; I have PERSONALLY worn only oxford shirts since 7th grade and slacks since college—but i do NOT think it is the GOVERNMENT’s job to tell me that I couldn’t wear tees & jeans if I chose to. COMPRENDE????
Sarah
November 28th, 2009
9:22 am
We even have rules on belts, shoes, hair accessories, jewelry and just about anything. Our uniform dress code has been in place for over 10 years and I personally think it has helped with discipline.
Marie
November 28th, 2009
9:54 am
Another case of defiance by students who should be interested in education rather than how they look! Colleges won’t be interested in what you look like, but, what your overall grades were, course work and giving back to the community you live in! I and other college educated individuals don’t want to take care of you when you can’t get a job in the future because you lack a proper education to compete in our society!
Ole Guy
November 28th, 2009
12:50 pm
Philo, I can only paraphrase Ronnie, the actor-turned-prez: “There you go again”!
I couldn’t agree more with you in that, when the time comes, kids-turned-adults will be smart enough and mature enough to adapt to the dictates of the real world. The big question remains…exactly how will this transformation take place, exactly how will they achieve the intelect necessary to capture these smarts and levels of maturity? I honestly don’t think it will somehow decend upon their beings simply because, in their “yout”, they were permitted to freely express themselves in the absense of adult guidance. Now in what shape should that adult guidance take place…you say, in effect, “let um (the kids) decide, I say “provide that standard of dress now”. I can’t understand how this would, as you alluded, make them “yes-men/women”, and I certainly do not understand how this would inhibit their thinking and problem-solving skills. If anything, I believe their entire academic experiences would be greatly enhanced.
Gary Klahr
November 28th, 2009
2:02 pm
Ole Guy doesn’t understand this issue AT ALL. NO ONE —repeat NO ONE—is asking for “free dress” or “dress as you like.” We are asking for STANDARD, regular DRESS CODES like 90+ pct of U.S. schools use. Such codes—unlike unis—permit APPROPRIATE diverse styles & colors. WHY should kids be punished for wearing traditiional kid street clothes worn for 100 years like neckbanded tees (instead of collared polos) or well-fitted jeans (instead of uniform khakis). THAT is what this is aLL about—and that is ONLY what it is about. Kids need to be trained to make proper clorthing CHOICES as they will as adults. Very few adults wiill have no clothing choices. Kids forced to wear identical clothes 180 days a year don’t learn how to make the APPROPRIATE choices required of CITIZENS IN A DEMOCRACY. As for “adult guidance,” that comes from PARENTS—-NOT the Government!!!! There IS a required “standard” for school dress—that provided in dress codes barring indecent or disruptive clothes, or those showing skin or body parts that may be inappropriate. THAT is ALL the guidance kids & parents need—they don’t need the pro-uni posters here telling them how tto dress under penalty of expulsion from a PUBLIC school. COMPRENDE, ANYONE????????????
Hall Monitor
November 28th, 2009
6:28 pm
This story made http://detentionslip.org ! Check it out for all the crazy headlines from our schools.
ScienceTeacher671
November 28th, 2009
9:11 pm
Gary Klahr, 100 years??? I was in high school much less than 100 years ago – MUCH LESS! – but in my public high school we were not allowed to wear t-shirts or jeans. In fact, we girls were not allowed to wear pants at all!
After we graduated, girls were allowed to wear PANTSUITS and at some point they finally allowed jeans….
Gary Klahr
November 29th, 2009
12:10 am
To Science Teacher 671—I may be off by a FEW years—but you FAIL to answer my POINT on that or ANY of my OTHER points. The POINT is that the kind of clothes I would permit are STANDARD kid-wear in this country for MANY years; we are NOT talking Britney semi-nudity or the alleged “right” of hip-hop kids to show their underwear. Do you understand my position or NOT? I find in these arguments, when I score a big point, my opponents just try to nitpick (as you did) or change the subject. Again –I CHALLENGE YOU—please tell me the supposed “horrible effects” on school discipline etc of allowing kids to wear the clothes even YOU admit were finally allowed in YOUR school—properly-fitted jeans and collar-less tops (usually called T-shirts). Again, almost ALL the points raised by YOUR side in this blog are irrelevant to my MODERATE and MAINSTREAM position on this issie./gpk
neonsonicboy
November 29th, 2009
8:03 am
I live in the UK so don’t really know much about this, but I do think that I would do the same as these people did. Here, it is the decision of the school, and almost all schools have uniform, but I would hate it if I were forced to this level.
Adam Tryon
November 29th, 2009
2:06 pm
When I went to high school back in 1981, it was okay to wear just about anything. The various clicks would dress in their signature styles. I soon adopted the jeans and t-shirt look, the shirt usually depicting a favorite brand or character. I didn’t have the one of Mickey Mouse giving Iran the bird. I usually wore something nerdy, like a picture of a sun and a moon giving each other faces, or the logo of my favorite team or for a city that I had visited.
Anyway, it seems to me that what is and what is not inappropriate today is about the same as it was back then. Trends change of course, but what we find basically offensive changes very little from one generation to the next.
Of course because do we grow more complex as a society – especially among the younger generation – it does take more work these days to determine what is provocative flashing and what is appropriate expression. But the fundamental right – and even emotional need – to express ourselves to our peers – as most of us do mainly with clothing (and jewelry) – should not be denied just so parents and teachers may avoid that small extra effort it takes to give kids their freedom and still maintain order.
Philosopher
November 29th, 2009
2:39 pm
@Adam Tryon: AMEN! My only objection, as an experienced parent is that it is not a small effort at al…but it is still my responsibility.
Ole Guy
November 29th, 2009
4:38 pm
Gary, I’m sure, as a reasonable person, you’ve often wondered why, when turning right at an intersection, if the traffic light is red you must, BY LEGAL DECREE, first come to a complete stop and ensure there is no on-coming traffic in the lane in which you are about to enter. “It is just as well”, one would reasonably presume, “that I check for on-coming traffic while my vehicle is rolling, thus treating the red traffic light as a yield sign”.
Counselor, the Ole Guy understands the issue all too well. For the very same reason we are obliged to remain at that very same traffic light, for what may seem like an inordinate amount of time, before turning green and we proceed straight ahead. Even at the wee hours, when the entire world is tucked away, we must, by law, sit at the red, wasting both time and fuel, not to mention the safety ramifications which lurk into the night.
Unfortunately, there are, for lack of a more gentile description, boneheads and morons who go through life with absolutely no sense of “situational awareness”, of the advisability of “prudent caution”. It is because of these (one would hope) relatively few that the aformentioned laws exist, without which cars would probably go crashing into the other like circus bumper cars.
Rhetorically speaking, when we operate a motor vehicle, we must all be “punished”, if you will, for the indiscretions of a few. By the same token, the school board, right or wrong, and in reaction to observing a relatively few kids who could not/would not make appropriate choices, had to mandate this dress code.
As reasonable adults, we may not always follow the prescribed driving regs; we might exceed, by a few MPH, the posted limit; we might roll by that red light, checking, on the left, for on-coming traffic, as we execute that right turn. We probably do these things daily and not even think about the fact that we could be “punished” for such transgressions.
WHAT BETTER TIME TO TEACH THESE KIDS THAT, UNTIL THEY HAVE DEMONSTRATED SOUND DECISION-MAKING SKILLS, THEY GOTTA FOLLOW THE RULES!
ScienceTeacher671
November 29th, 2009
6:39 pm
Gary Klahr, neither have you answered my question. Whenever there is a dress code, isn’t someone imposing their standards of what is appropriate on everyone else?
Gary Klahr
November 29th, 2009
7:23 pm
To ScienceTeacher 671–Of course even a DRESS CODE is gov’t imposed regulation; as I have said THREE TIMES now, I am a moderate on this issue. But there is a THICK, BRIGHT LINE—not a thin wispy one—between a STANDARD dress code used in 90 pct of U.S. schools and this uniform or Standard School Attire (SSA) nonsense that is spreading faster than the swine flu.
There IS INDEED fairltyy widespread agreement on WHAT is APPROPRIATE attitre for public schools; at the MARGIn, there may be disagreement, but it is submitted that at LEAST 75 pct of vthe public agrees that PROPERRLY-FITTED and CLEAN , untorn tee shirts annd denim jeans ARE aopppropriate for school; yet almost ALL unis ban THOSE items in favor of more formal polos & khakis or slacks.
To OLE GIU—You are WTONG on TWO levels. In the first place, Americans have AQLWAYS rebelled ahainstt UNREASONABLE rules; have you forgotten Jefferson’s Declartation of Indepeendence and DSr,. king”s Civil diosobedience of Georgia’s outrageous Jim Crow laws? Or were YOU on the side of the KKK in “Mississippi Burning.”?? Secondly, although I AM advocating C/D here, my MAIN call is for the “Man” as you put it—your STUPID. foolish school board—to follow DeKallb County next door and repeal mand unis or at least allow parent opt-out as in Miami-Dade County, Florida, a comparable Southern urban area. Instead of telling us that RULES ARE RULES, why don’t you take up my CHALLENGE on this blog and EXPLAIN TO us exactly what HORRORS in school are created by kids wearting tee shirts & jeans as they have in Ga, for decades and in your district since K until recently. HUH????? And you are DEAD WRIONG that unids are required “because a few kids refused to make appropriate choices” in clothes. I havec stated FIVE times now that dress code violators CAN & SHOULD be expelled or otherwise severely punished—but this should NOT apply to the MAJORITY who DO wear appropriate—if diverse— street clothes. The solution to non-enforcement of laws is MORE ENFORCEMENT—NOT MORE LAWS!!!!
ScienceTeacher671
November 29th, 2009
8:40 pm
Unless we really are trying to raise our children to be factory workers, I think high school students should wear attire a bit nicer than simply a pair of jeans and a t-shirt, no matter how “well-fitted”. What’s wrong with khakis and a polo shirt? It’s certainly less formal than much business attire.
Gary Klahr
November 30th, 2009
12:57 am
To Science teacher 671—The key is FORCED uniformity and LACK OF LEGIT DIVERSITY!!! There is NOTHING WRONG witith khakis and polos and most HS kids I know have BOTH in their WARDROBE. But NONE I know want to be FORCED to wear them to school EVERY DAY OF THE YEAR. Kids do NOT need to be forced to dress up in school in order to learn how to dress up later. EVERYTHING depends on the occasion; as a kid, I was “forced” by my parents to wear button-up shirts and slacks to Sunday School—but NO ONE thought such should be required for daily public school—NO ONE!!! My experience is that as a kid gets older, his choice of clothes DOES usually get more diverse and more formal NATURALLY; but there is NO BASIS for PUNISHING a a well-behaved kid MERELY because he wears a non-collared shirt or a pair of jeans to public school. Do you FINALLY get my point or NOT????
Ed Johnson
November 30th, 2009
1:12 pm
Obviously, adults in public schools who would impose a standard uniform dress upon kids prefer teaching the kids to be complicit in, and non-disruptive of, the adults’ lazy autocractic behavior rather than teaching the kids to become cooperative and active participants in our democracy for the benefit of the common good. And where adults impose standard uniform dress in the belief standard uniform dress solves student discipline problems, the standard uniform dress accomplishes nothing but to dress up the student discipline problems. But, of course, the student discipline problems will resurface more virally and viciously than ever. And then the adults will set up the next lazy autocractic solution. And each vicious cycle of lazy autocractic solution will spiral even more deeper, becoming more and more dominate over democratic behavior with each generation of kids having grown into adulthood. From one generation to the next, survival will depend more on competition rather than on cooperation.
Let us be thankful for the some 1,500 teens in Clayton County, for they hold the promise of transforming vicious cycle of autocratic laziness into virtuous cycles of democratic sustainability.
Student of CCPS
December 1st, 2009
11:23 am
I am one of the students that did not wear their uniforms on Friday. I go to open campus and i was punished after my home school told me I didn’t have to wear my uniform. I totally disagree on the uniforms and believe that it should’ve only been set of middle and elementary schools. I am glad that there were so many people that chose to be different and make a statement. We were promised, at the meeting during the summer, that after 6 weeks we would get a free friday and till this day nothing has changed. I believe the school board should keep their word and give us atleast free friday since we don’t even have homecoming week to celebrate.
jim d
December 1st, 2009
12:01 pm
these 1500 demonstarte there is yet hope for this country.
Gary Klahr
December 1st, 2009
4:13 pm
TO THE STUDENT AT CCPS—You need to put your BODY where your mouth is. They CANNOT suspend 1500 students if they REFUSE to be suspended; they would have to MASSACRE them, like at Kent State & Jackson State in 1970—and the “Man” will NOT do that over tee shirts & jeans. MARK my word. You guys are TOTAL WIMPS for accepting suspensions. You MUST just sit in your seats and refuse to go to the office to be suspended; if the cops drag you out by the hair, have it transmitted to the outside world by camera phone. In 1963, Dr. King got NOWHERE in Birrmingham on Civil Rights until the police used dogs & fire hoses on the black kids and CBS News & the NY TIMES printed the pictures. And to get public sympathy, you guys MUST dress APPROPRIATELY in non-uniform pro-social logo tees and PROPERLY-fitted jeans. The shirt logos should either be Georgia State shirts or Support Our Troops or Pro-Life or some other conservative slogan POPULAR in Georgia. Most pro-uni people have NO IDEA that unis bar even their favorite logo shirts. For example, in the NEWSOM case in Va., a kid wore an NRA tee in violation of a school rule against shirts depicting “violence” in any way. The Va Atty-General REFUSED to defend the school, and the conservative 4th Cir.. Ct of Appeals in Richmond held IN FAVOR OF THE KID—ppinting out that the NRA shiirt was similar to the arms shown on the Va. STATE SEAL. COMPRENDE ANYONE????????????????????
ScienceTeacher671
December 1st, 2009
7:00 pm
Gary Klahr, regardless of your shouting, I think your approach and the uniform approach are just a matter of degrees.
Educator
December 1st, 2009
7:29 pm
At Forest Park they tried reverse psychology…that morning they told the students they were being rewarded, and they could dress down that day..Ha no one wanted to deal with suspending everyone.
Ole Guy
December 1st, 2009
9:17 pm
Absolutely, Teach 71. The counselor, through his writings, seems to become somewhat excitable when, in reality, we all seem to have common agreement from different situational angles. I just figured the Arizona desert was making him irritable!
Gary Klahr
December 2nd, 2009
3:14 am
I am passionate—but very moderate in my OPINIONS. why does NO ONE want to comment on the MAIN issue here—why should good kids be punished for wearing totally-appropriate clothes they have worn since K—especially properly-fitted, clean tee shirts and denim jeans. Although that is the MAIN complaint I have about this code—everybody discusses EVERYTHING BUT THAT. WHY?????????????????????????????????
Gary Klahr
December 2nd, 2009
3:17 am
To Science Teacher 671—WRONG; there is a BRIGHT THICK line between a normal dress code which gives kids 1000 combo options and THIS uni code nonsense which gives only a few, if any, clothing options. WHY can’t you understand THAT???????????????????????????????????
jim d
December 2nd, 2009
1:16 pm
Schools of CHOICE–some with uniforms some without—PROBLEM SOLVED!!!
Ole Guy
December 2nd, 2009
2:36 pm
Gary, like the head guy said in the movie, Cool Hand Luke, “What we have here is a failure to communicate”…that BRIGHT THICK line, like many issues in life, is a matter of situational interpretation. A dress code of “DRESS WARMLY” would have two entirely separate and distinct meanings in, say, Michigan, and in your home environs (I know, it gets cold in the desert…please just stay with me on this one).
Now please understand, I have no love affair with the school board in question. Over the years, they have not, in my opinion, demonstrated the qualities expected of an educational system charged with preparing kids for the mean ole world…HOWEVER, your issue of choice of dress is, like your BRIGHT THICK line, a matter of situational interpretation. Where a student body (or, for that matter, any assembledge which, by their very presence, represents something bigger than they) presents themselves in a manner coducive to the purpose for which they assemble in the first place, all is well and good (please note that, up to this point, prescibed uniforms have not been introduced). However, when large numbers of the assemblege, perhaps not all, but, lets say, more than 51%, present themselves in completely inappropriate dress which, by reasonable standards, is not at all conducive to the purpose for which they assemble, than that BRIGHT THICK line has not only been crossed, but left far behind. This is when the dress standards have transitioned from the normal dress code, with a 1000 combo options, to the more-rigid uni code. While this may appear somewhat draconian, there exists institutions of learning which simply ascribe to the uniformity of dress as being of maximum value in fostering the purpose for which all have assembled. As Jimmy D has pointed, SCHOOLS OF CHOICE! AMEN!!
ScienceTeacher671
December 3rd, 2009
7:33 pm
“Properly fitted jeans” appears to mean overly-large and sagging for some of our children, overly tight to others…and then there are the “hip huggers” worn by the girls which barely cover the pubic hairs and sometimes leave large rolls of abdominal flesh protruding over them.
Tshirts seem to have similar degrees of interpretation. Some of our students think these shirts should be large and quite long; others think they should be shorter and quite tight. Necklines may also vary.
Hopefully, you get the point?
Ole Guy
December 11th, 2009
12:25 pm
What this means, Sci Teach, is that, unfortunately, kids aren’t being taught to make appropriate decisions, so we, the so-called “establishment”, are obliged to make those decisions for them.
When I was a kid, my Mom allowed me, basically, two wardrobes: the stuff I could wear in “human company”…church, school, etc…and the “weird stuff”, clothing considered cool, by contemporary teenage standards. The proviso on wear of the “cool” stuff was that it would be donned only in appropriate settings:teen club, dates, etc. One day, I thought I’d be swift and fool the folks…placing some cool stuff in the same bag which held my laundered football uniform, I simply changed-out in the locker room. As concerned parents will, mine, somehow discovered my sneaky deed.
As unpopular as “seat warming” appears to be among the enlightened educational crowd, this is exactly the reception which awaited me, and my generation, when we blatantly took liberties which were in direct violation of prescribed standards of dress and behavior. Several decades later, there appears to be much “poo poo”ing over this seemingly draconian means of rearing kids to be responsible adults. Merits and demerits can be tossed back and forth on the field of hindsight as to wheather the disciplinary measures of the mid-20th Century were appropriate. However, I feel that most, if not all, from that particular era will agree on one thing…IT WORKED! Will the same be said, fifty years from now, on the “disciplinary controls” of the early 21st Century?
Wide Awake
December 15th, 2009
5:47 pm
Gary Klahr: As an person who served for the U.S. why did you and all others wear uniforms. Soldiers, Police, Fireman, Nurses, Doctors, Lawyers (Suits), Judges you get my point.
You are not correct in your assumption. Clayton GA students need discipline as well as directions. Uniforms are a drop in the bucket compared to what these students and parents really need to concentrate on like these students ARE NOT BEING PREPARED for the real world–If they can’t wear a uniform for 7 hours of school then I am sure they will not want to wear a suit for a job interview(low or high paying) because it strips their individuality.
Wide Awake
December 15th, 2009
6:03 pm
Oh yeah, Mcdonalds and Burger King you must wear a uniform. I guess if you are being paid (money) it is different than being paid with (knowledge).
Uniforms in all Schools.
Wide Awake
December 15th, 2009
6:09 pm
Gary Klahr:For example, in the NEWSOM case in Va., a kid wore an NRA tee in violation of a school rule against shirts depicting “violence” in any way.
I guess it would be okay for a pro-lifer to wear a t-shirt in school depicting a fetus who has been removed from womb before time. OR a person who is for terrorism to wear a t-shirt promoting killing people on a t-shirt in school. Maybe someone could wear it as a Judge in the courtroom. I doubt that would be offensive.
Wide Awake
December 15th, 2009
6:13 pm
Gary Klahr: why should good kids be punished for wearing totally-appropriate clothes they have worn since K.
They grew out of their K clothes and have graduated to wearing clothes that is off-base and offensive. Since you are a proponent when Pres O won a student worn a shirt with his picture in return the teacher (anti-O) made a mention. The student called the teacher all types of inappropriate names and even threatened the teacher. I guess that is what the learning environment should become in Clayton.
Wide Awake
December 15th, 2009
6:16 pm
Christina: 100% correct. But the parents rather seen them in their ORANGE uniforms as oppose to a variety of colorful uniforms.
The HS can wear black, beige, blue, grey with color combo shirts. What is the big deal?
Wide Awake
December 15th, 2009
6:19 pm
Gary Klahr: the “Student of CCPS” you are giving ideas to goes to open campus–that is the school where they send those who can’t make it in their regular zoned schools based on behavior or academics.