Calendar wars: Aren’t we fighting the wrong battle?
Like Cobb County, my local school district moves to a new “balanced” calendar next year with a shorter summer and two mid-year breaks.
And like many parents in Cobb, I am not thrilled.
A longer summer suits our family better than the abbreviated one. I didn’t object because I figured the new calendar may benefit some families.
But it’s probably a mistake for Cobb or other systems to promote their new balanced calendar as a boost to academics.
The research isn’t decisive that spreading out the same number of days over more months makes a large or lasting difference in how much students learn.
Both those in favor of the balanced and traditional calendars can cite reputable research to bolster their arguments.
The pro year-round camp points to Karl Alexander of Johns Hopkins University who found that disadvantaged children make no academic progress in the summer, a deficiency that he says reverberates throughout their schooling.
Alexander concluded that about two-thirds of the ninth-grade academic achievement gap between poor students and more advantaged peers can be explained by the differences in their summer experiences in elementary school, a period of loss that he calls the summer slide.
While low-income children begin school with lower achievement scores, Alexander found that they progress at about the same rate as their more affluent peers. But the summer break — when middle class kid go to art camp, swim team and museum trips — widens the gap.
Alexander found that poor children don’t have many learning-rich environments in their lives outside of school; their parents lack the wherewithal or resources to turn summer into a learning laboratory. The longer low-income children are away from school, the more they fall behind, he said.
The parents who prefer the traditional calendar cite the work of Ohio State University sociologist Paul von Hippel. While von Hippel agreed that the learning of poor children slows down in the summer, he didn’t see any lasting benefit to those students from a year-round schedule.
Using national data from the Early Childhood Longitudinal Study, von Hippel found year-round calendars are somewhat ineffective. Yes, children do learn more quickly during the summer, but they learn more slowly at other times of year, said von Hippel.
He found that over a 12-month period, the children in year-round programs learn no more than children following a traditional school calendar. His conclusion: Year-round calendars don’t counter the summer slide; they just redistribute it across the rest of the year.
The reason may be that the key is not when children sit in a class but what they do while in class.
Yet, academic achievement has never been uppermost in any setting of school calendars. With its long summer break, the traditional calendar is an artifact of a time when children were needed to work the fields.
Nor are academics a major consideration in most of the tinkering today with the standard 180-day school year.
If academics were the priority, the school calendar would be longer, says Harris Cooper, a Duke University professor who leads the national research on year-round schools.
“I think our kids would be going to school for more days,” says Cooper. “And there would be flexibility in the length of the school day so that kids would be spending more time in school each day. But no matter how much time kids are in school, what you do with that time is the most critical aspect.”
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So why switch to a balanced calendar if enhanced student performance isn’t a certain outcome?
My own system touted the change as a recruitment tool, saying teachers liked it better. While there’s no hard data on whether school calendars affect teacher retention, Cooper says teachers appear to prefer the more frequent and shorter breaks to the longer summer.
In the end, it’s the parents who often become the biggest fans of year-around and balanced calendars, says Cooper.
“If you look at parent satisfaction in districts where this has been in place for a while, the parents are quite satisfied,” he says. “For middle-class families where both parents work outside of the home, this is a better fit. Schools have always responded to broader economic and lifestyle issues. If we were constructing a school calendar from scratch, there would be no way that we would pick the one we have now.”
That many parents tout the opportunities provided in balanced calendars to take cheaper trips to Disney during the fall and spring breaks doesn’t bother Cooper.
“If somebody else argues that this calendar prevents them from taking a vacation in August,” he says, “somebody else can say that they prefer it because they can take cheaper vacations to Disney in October.”
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91 comments Add your comment
d
November 22nd, 2009
8:20 am
Yeah, who the heck really wants to be in hot, humid, central Florida in the middle of August when it’s much nicer in October. Seriously though, no matter what happens, someone’s gonna be ticked off. Either, “they took our summer” or “the kids and teachers need a mental break.”
e
November 22nd, 2009
8:53 am
I agree with d. Setting a calendar is a no-win task.
I also agree with Maureen that using the academic achievement for this change is a bogus. But, I think it is good for both kids and teachers to have a week off at a couple of times during the school year – I mean I can actually sleep in a bit instead of waking up my kids at 5:30…
Cere
November 22nd, 2009
9:09 am
So send them to camp! This is not rocket science. If it’s proven that “advantaged” children learn (and grow) more over the summer due to camp and family vacation experiences – then instead of sending poor children to “more of the same” school (torture in summer) spend the same amount of money sending them all to a camp experience. The learning one experiences at camp is vast – but there is no denying that physical activity and game-playing boosts learning. Ask any pediatric occupational therapist – or a Discovery Toys rep.
Sadly, many of our education leaders and poor parents stick to the wrong-headed belief that the only way to learn is in the classroom. Support summer camps! They are contributing so much to children’s well-being, and I guarantee, parents who believe in summer camps will pull their children out of public school if the public school sets a calendar that makes camp impossible.
oldtimer
November 22nd, 2009
9:55 am
As a teacher, I liked the newer calander my last souple of years in the classroom, but, more for me than the kids. I was tired and needed a break. What I found was the day or two before each break was kind of “lost” in excitement of a break. The day or two after was “lost” getting back in a routine. And attendence on each end was down somewhat as there are always families who want to get a jump on everyone else. There is something to be said for getting a routine going and just get it done, as when nI was a kid. School was Labor Day to Memorial Day with shorter breaks. The period between Thanksgiving and Christmas is hard also, as everyone is just so busy and teachers and kids get tired then sick. Homework just cannot get done and school work is just not as exciting.
I guess there is no great way to manage this time and learning is not alsways a priority.
Courtney
November 22nd, 2009
10:35 am
Traditional Calendar works best. You should not destroy our schools b/c you would rather spend money on liquor than camp for your children.
ScienceTeacher671
November 22nd, 2009
10:38 am
I wonder if anyone has yet come up with a calendar that would have a semester ending just before Thanksgiving, with a long break through Christmas and New Year?
ScienceTeacher671
November 22nd, 2009
10:39 am
@Courtney: Liquor?? Where’d that come from?
Devil's Advocate
November 22nd, 2009
10:54 am
Maureen- the postnapper got mine!
Devil's Advocate
November 22nd, 2009
11:01 am
@ScienceTeacher671 -Interesting idea…the first I’ve heard in a while. And because of the length of time involved, childcare facilities and camps facilities could plan (organize and structure) for it like they do for summer camps. It would need thinking and planning…but at least it’s a start, someone thinking of alternatives… thanks!
David S
November 22nd, 2009
11:07 am
You want a real alternative. How about eliminating government involvement in education entirely. Then you could send your child to the school of YOUR choice. One that meets your scheduling needs, not the governments.
But that would require you to be fully responsible for the costs of raising your child instead of socializing the costs (in other words, passing them on to everyone else). Couldn’t have that.
Now of course there will be a chorus of parents all upset at the idea that every other parent will be irresponsible so we all have to be victimized to cover for them. Why don’t you worry about your own child and realize that central planning of anything doesn’t work. Education is just too important to leave to government bureaucrats.
Devil's Advocate
November 22nd, 2009
11:44 am
David S. You have no idea what I am willing to do..about anything-please keep your angry assumptions to yourself.
Patty
November 22nd, 2009
12:58 pm
The balanced calendar is a wonderful thing. We only got to enjoy it for four years while our daughter was in high school but speaking from a home schooling (which we did for 7 years) and conventional schooling (12 years) perspective, the balanced calendar is most amendable to family life.
Patty
November 22nd, 2009
12:59 pm
* amenable
D
November 22nd, 2009
1:11 pm
I’m a teacher and I’m in favor of it. No matter how much the public thinks that teaching is an easy job because we get summers off, it is the hardest job I’ve ever had. It is very mentally taxing. Most people get to leave work and not think about it until they arrive back in the office again the next day. For teachers, we work nonstop. We can’t show up unprepared so we have to plan out every single second we possibly can every day. I can’t remember the last time I worked any less than a 9.5 hour day at the school – and then I go home with more work. So with no breaks until Thanksgiving, we need a break.
And it’s not just teachers. I can also sense my students getting restless. We (and by that, I mean, legislators) keep telling us to take away things like PE and recess so these kids are expected to sit and not move for 7 hours straight for several months at a time. They are CHILDREN. They have physical needs to move and grow (not to mention how much that benefits their mental capabilities).
I think these parents need to realize what their children (and teachers) go through. I think people are just afraid of change and don’t want to sit back and realize that in the grand scheme of things, changing the year to a “balanced” calendar is not a big deal.
Critical care nurse mom
November 22nd, 2009
1:38 pm
You know, I’ve been both a teacher and a critical care nurse…yes, teachers have it tough…but nurses have life threatening situations, split second decisions to make, death and dying regularly, 300-400 pound patients to move in and out of bed,…and yes, we work 12 hour shifts and our patients are always with us. Our licenses are on the line daily. Lots of other public servant positions are just as exhausting and demanding. I’m sorry- change the calendars all you want if it is for the kids’ education…but PLEASE…”we’re so tired and we work so hard” just doesn’t hold water with me. Nurses get at MOST 3 to 4 weeks off in any given year. And they hold your loved ones’ lives in their hands.
Cere
November 22nd, 2009
1:40 pm
“Most people get to leave work and not think about it until they arrive back in the office again the next day.”
That is sooooooo not true. But I digress. The breaks certainly would be nice for teachers – but who in the heck is going to look after the kids during multiple short breaks throughout the school year?
Philosopher
November 22nd, 2009
2:30 pm
@Cere: fom what I can gather from other blogs concerning this matter…they don’t CARE what the childcare issues are and do not CARE what is to become of the kids during those weeks. It’s not a problem for the teachers and “since when did we expect public schools to be babysitting services?”. At least that’s the jist of what is offered. Haven’t heard too much from parents that both work about this issue, though…maybe because they are too busy working to feed and clothe the kids to vent here…?
Philosopher
November 22nd, 2009
3:11 pm
Cere: The prevailing attitude throughout other blogs concerning this issue is “what do WE care?” It’s not our problem, it is yours. I have seen absolutely no concern on any teacher’s part about the kids …pretty loud and clear “since when did public schools become responsible for childcare?”
e
November 22nd, 2009
3:16 pm
Cere,
maybe parents ???
Philosopher
November 22nd, 2009
3:25 pm
Cere, what did I tell you?
Cobb parent
November 22nd, 2009
4:07 pm
I am so tired of all those against the calendar saying- “there is no research to show that it boosts academics”. Well, as parent for the balanced calendar, I would like to ask ” Where is the research that shows a traditional calendar is better for student achievement”. Also, for all the parents who bellyache about not being asked- YOU WERE! Pay attention to the website and the phone calls.
f
November 22nd, 2009
4:46 pm
Philosopher,
Your point is???
g
November 22nd, 2009
4:47 pm
I’m not a teacher, and I am a parent. I expect to take care of my kids when they aren’t in schools. Isn’t that what we are supposed to do?
Philosopher
November 22nd, 2009
5:16 pm
g: just curious…Do you have to take off from work during these “off” weeks when the kids are off?
Philosopher
November 22nd, 2009
5:23 pm
@f: MY point is…No teacher in these blogs has shown any compassion. empathy, or concern for the welfare of the kids during these weeks, for the problems that parents face with this added burden, or even for whether or not it helps the kids in any way. I say that speaks pretty loud…all by itself.
oldtimer
November 22nd, 2009
6:56 pm
Those who listen to teachers: One thing to keep in mind they only get paid to work 190 days a year. I, for one, think the year should be extended and maybe longer days, but we would have to really rethink how we spend that time and teachers would be paid accordingly.
f
November 22nd, 2009
7:05 pm
So, you don’t think it’s enough that those teachers deal with your “burdens” 180 days a year? You don’t think those teachers show compassion and concern for the students when they are under their care for 180 days a year?
You are such a whiner.
ScienceTeacher671
November 22nd, 2009
7:27 pm
Philosopher, I don’t get it. Who looks after your kids during the summer and during Christmas break? Why wouldn’t they be available to look after them during the short breaks?
When my children were small, I worked in the private sector, and got 3 weeks of vacation each year. We used a facility called a “daycare” and paid them a weekly fee to watch the children. As the children got older, they attended daycare in the summer and after school (sometimes also before school), and when the school had vacation days that weren’t general holidays, like “Spring Break” or teacher planning days, the daycare was also available to watch the children if we didn’t take vacation during that time.
I’d have been very happy if my children’s school had implemented a calendar like this. Before the children started school, we preferred vacationing in September or October rather than in summer, because the weather was nicer, most places weren’t as crowded, and frequently we could get off-season rates.
I’m not sure what I’m supposed to feel compassionate about; instead I feel envious.
Devil's Advocate
November 22nd, 2009
7:34 pm
@Philosopher – I think what you are seeing by the “we’re not a babysitting service” is less about teachers not caring about what happens to the kids during those off weeks, and more about the attitude that SOME parents have that school is free childcare. If you poll teachers, you’ll probably also find that the “free childcare parents” are the ones with the most disruptive children as students.
I know it’s hard for middle class parents who were raised to value education and both instill that value in their children as well as support their academics at home to believe, but there is a sizable portion of society that does not feel that way – and their kids are often sitting in the desk next to your child and disrupting your kid’s education – meanwhile you’re probably paying more in property taxes.
pay attention folks
November 22nd, 2009
7:51 pm
To answer Maureen’s original question….”Aren’t we fighting the wrong battle?” The answer is yes.
The battle we should be fighting is over block scheduling in high schools.
Parents of elementary kids just don’t get that block scheduling is THE resason for early August start dates. Without block, school could start whenever.
Push your school boards to re-evaluate block scheduling. That is what is putting six year olds back in the classroom in early August.
Florida Teacher
November 22nd, 2009
7:52 pm
Our school systems tried this for several years under the same guise that less of summer break aided retention. One year the students actually started on Monday, July 31st. I have found the same thing that “oldtimer” stated that the few days before students were in the excitement phase and then coming back they had to be reviewed for a couple of days to get back in the routine. Many parents take a few days before and few days off to get the head start or to extend the break. It seems that parents send kids to school when it’s convenient then write elaborate letters about how this trip to Disney in California or to North Dakota is going to be educational.
Finally parents in Florida started an organization called “Save our Summers” and lobbied the legislature to go back to a traditional summer. They finally passed a bill saying no district could start more than 2 weeks before Labor Day. After 3 years some districts have found a loop hole and are starting 3 weeks before Labor Day.
I do enjoy the breaks, but I need to break in the summer to renew my mental energy before the new students come. For kids, the shorter breaks and a longer summer seems to work best because you have to review in the beginning of the year anyway.
Cere
November 22nd, 2009
9:17 pm
The truth of the matter is – there are hundreds of single-parent households where there isn’t money for day care services on a random calendar. It’s very nice that this calendar allows for vacationing at more interesting times, however, I’m pretty certain that 10 weeks in summer, 2 weeks during the holidays and another week during spring break, along with MLK holiday, President’s Day and Thanksgiving – there are plenty of opportunities to vacation.
The calendar, as is, allows people with little means (and often little support) to place children in YMCA programs and other similar programs that traditionally operate over the summer and during the breaks. So many working people do not get paid a dime when they take time off – and this greatly effects their children’s well-being. You can go down the path of arguing responsibility, however, this is reality and we need to address it — not just make random changes that leave so many households in a quandary.
pay attention folks
November 22nd, 2009
9:27 pm
Cere,
The logic that YMCA camps will only run during the summer just isn’t there. YMCA’s, churches and the like will rise to the occasion and offer camps during the breaks. School will still be in session for 180 days. We’re not talking about more weeks off–just different weeks off, and childcare will be available. Because we’re talking about the same number of weeks off, the cost for childcare should not be affected. Part of the reason Cobb felt pushed to decide on a calendar was because community groups were asking for a calendar to be set so that they could plan their programs.
Philosopher
November 22nd, 2009
9:46 pm
f- you want to shout ” whining” in other blogs and it’s still bogus… a different opinion from yours is not whining. Please hold off writing until you can do something besides name-calling. And I certainly never said you had it easy..putting words in my mouth is bogus, too.
Someone needs to care about the problems these schedules impart on parents and kids…and work together to come up with solutions. It does not say much for the teaching profession that they blatantly scoff at the needs of parents and kids, demand to get only what they want and make no effort whatever to work WITH the public…we are your employers, by the way.
And teachers, this stubborn, mean-spirited attitude will backfire one day when parents have had enough of it. Pay close attention to the rise in charter schools and home schooling…why do you think this movement is growing so fast? Because the public is growing increasingly unhappy with you.
Devil's Advocate
November 22nd, 2009
10:02 pm
@Philosopher – I tried posting earlier, but I think it got eaten by the blog monster. My point was that teachers aren’t necessarily being cavalier about childcare; they are responding to the many parents who treat public school as just that. Middle class parents who value education and teach their children the same have trouble believing that there are parents out there who don’t. Unfortunately it’s true. The mean-spirited attitude you refer to is probably the result of being bashed over and over and over again just because they are teachers – you read this blog; you must see it. The board asked the teachers for input – they gave it. Fifty one percent of the 50 percent who responded voted for this calendar. There are as many teachers as unhappy with it as some parents are. The board is responsible for the vote, and the last last time I checked NONE of them are Cobb county teachers (they can’t serve on the board if the teach in the county).
unhappy teachers
November 22nd, 2009
10:30 pm
Philosopher,
You somehow seem to think that this calendar is what every teacher wanted, and you are very wrong. Many of us have to work during the summer to support our families. Spreading a school year does nothing to improve my opportunities to obtain another job. There aren’t a one-week job in September and February, and many employers want to hire someone who can work longer than 10 weeks – it’s actually less for teachers if you don’t know.
So, I wish you stop blaming teachers for this calendar. There are many teachers who are happy about this new calendar as there are parents who are happy about it. There are some teachers who aren’t happy about it as parents like you aren’t. Then, there are many teachers who really don’t care about the calendar that much, but would rather not be thought of as child-care providers.
Leigh
November 22nd, 2009
11:13 pm
Trust me – the length of the summer break has nothing to do with how much students retain or forget. If students learn something, and not simply memorize it, then they know it. If education would stop this feel good curriculum and concentrate on actually teaching, then our students would not rank 19th out of 21 countries in math and science. Kids need to learn to read and spell (phonics), write (in cursive), and be able to compute with accuracy and speed. They need to play outside at least 30 minutes, and have a healthy lunch. None of this is taking place in the current school environment. Students have become guinea pigs for any and every ‘new and improved’ way to learn. Our graduation test is embarrassingly simple, and kids are proud because they passed. What’s going to happen when they can’t get a job because they can’t read, write, or compute?
high school teacher
November 23rd, 2009
5:57 am
Courtney, are you asserting that all low imcome adults are alcoholics and therefore can’t provide for their children? Let me assure you that is not the case.
Critical Care Nurse, I am not disagreeing with you about the rigorous nature of your job, and I am not getting into a “my job is harder than your job” battle. Admittedly, I couldn’t do what you do. However, I thought that nurses only worked three 12 hour shifts a week. Is this still the case? If so, then you have more breaks built into your work week. Of course,you also have to catch up on your sleep, so I don’t know how that affects the amount of “free time” that you have.
Our district had a balanced calendar a few years ago. I have to be honest: as much as I loved that week off in October, I never could get back into a routine until January. I was not as organized. I think that the term “balanced calendar” is a misnomer; having a random couple of weeks off during traditional school time is not balancing. I would love to try a real balanced calendar, with 9 weeks on and 3 weeks off (and a 6 week summer), to see if there are any academic gains. Perhaps a charter school could offer this schedule so that parents could choose to follow this pattern.
ScienceTeacher671
November 23rd, 2009
7:53 am
@pay attention folks – excellent point. We also have to wonder just how much money school boards are saving to continue with block scheduling under NCLB, when DOE’s data, as well as several reputable studies by folks such as ACT and the College Board, show that test scores are generally lower under block scheduling.
Critical Care Nurse
November 23rd, 2009
8:34 am
high school teacher_ thank you for your calm, concerned approach to these issues- it’s refreshing. Nurses are required to work 3 12 hour shifts and for many of us, more is asked and/or required and/or needed to make ends meet. And most nurses are basically worthless emotionally and physically on their off days. It’s not about who works harder, though, and I’m sorry if that is how it was perceived…it’s about that argument not being legitimate as a reason for this calendar. If it were legitimate, though, I would say that a nurse given even 8 weeks off in the summer (not to mention the September, February, November and April breaks, would be one hell of a great nurse and happy person. We’d probably be healthier, too. as studies are showing that many of our injuries occur as a result of exhaustion.
All, I , and I think most parents want, is reasonable dialogue (preferrably, BEFORE the decision is made) concerning the issues and a sense that teachers (and, yes, the BOE) understand and care about the needs of the children and parents. Sadly, that is not apparent in these blogs.
Reality Mom
November 23rd, 2009
8:41 am
@ HighSchool Teacher–I also am a nurse and its (4) 12 hour shifts with rotating weekends. Every job has its challenges when trying to balance it with family. Because my job requires me to work weekends, should I be able to say that no kids activities should happen on the weekend because I have to work? Or can’t start till after 7pm when I get off?
I provide for my child the best way that I know how. It’s car pooling, lost sleep and the stress of knowing that I couldn’t be at ( fill in the blank) because I had to work. The land lord and the grocery store must be paid every month.
Critical Care Nurse
November 23rd, 2009
8:43 am
OH, and what we wouldn’t give to know what year we can have Christmas off! My son was 8 years old before we had Christmas on Christmas Day!…(just a little aside….:)
Warrior Woman
November 23rd, 2009
9:00 am
The balanced calendar is a horrid invention that penalizes performing students and parents that take responsibility for their children’s growth and development outside the classroom. It minimizes the possibility for non-school learning, such as summer camps, service learning through mission trips, travel, etc. It does nothing positive, but just panders to teachers who are whining for more breaks through the school year.
Warrior Woman
November 23rd, 2009
9:02 am
And @ pay attention folks – the cost of childcare increases dramatically, because there is a registration fee for each session of camp, daycare, etc. Now instead of 1 fee for the summer, parents will have to pay a fee for each break.
Reality 2
November 23rd, 2009
9:27 am
I don’t see what difference a balanced calendar creates for the cost of childcare – kids still go to school 180 days. As for non-school learning opportunities, I agree with somemone else who mentioned all these other private “providers” will adjst their calendars – after all they want your money in any way they can get to. Churches will adjust their mission trips. I don’t know of ANY camp that take kids in from the Day 1 of their summer break to the last day of the break. It is just some weeks during the break. So, if they are offering a 4-week camp, that cost shouldn’t change, and the calendar shouldn’t affect the total cost of childcare needed for the summer So, I don’t buy the argument that a balanced calendar will minimize the learnin opportunities.
Finally, if you want the school system to run a childcare service using the school buildings, maybe you should suggest that to the BOE – they can probably use some additional sources of money.
Tony
November 23rd, 2009
10:05 am
When it comes to education, we frequently argue about the wrong things. The balanced calendar is just one example. Issues like this one distract people away from solving real problems about education that would make a huge difference for all children. By spending our time dealing with issues rooted in emotions, we are fighting no-win battles. Other examples of emotional issues include homework, recess, block scheduling, and many other issues can create arguments that raise the roof but in the end will have little impact on achievement.
One of the important issues raised in this blog today has to do with access to summer activities. Poor children are frequently unable to participate in summer activities for a host of reasons. Camps, week-long theme programs, church related activities, and other opportunities cost money. Middle and upper income families are more than happy to get their children involved in these things. Poor, inner-city and rural families have a very difficult time joining in activities like these because they are not provided in the area, costs prohibit enrollment, or they simply don’t get invited.
So, if we know what one of the root problems is, what should we do about it? Here is where our arguments get out of hand. Too many people adopt the attitude that it is “not my responsibility” to provide for others. Another attitude that is part of the problem is the one from those that think “the government should provide this for my children.” Neither attitude benefits the children. Children need to learn the value of learning and they get this from their parents. Parents should make efforts to provide opportunities for their children. In turn, those of us with the means to do so should take responsibility to create ways for the poor children to have access to quality programs.
Otherwise, we are all just blowing a lot of hot air.
really? seriouslyl?
November 23rd, 2009
10:17 am
I am truly disappointed at some of the comments about “whining” teachers on this blog. I know that some of these commenters have never spent a day in a teacher’s shoes, and therefore dismiss teachers’ input as baseless.
From a true perspective – students lose traction around breaks. Already, my kids have been squirrely for the past week in anticipation of Thanksgiving break. Several students have informed me they will not be here for the Monday and Tuesday beforehand. Teachers lose so much time before and after breaks based on parent travel, student retention, and the like. I’m not opposed to the balanced calendar, but I am opposed to someone telling me how my job is without them actually having experience as an educator.
Gwinnett HS Teacher
November 23rd, 2009
10:59 am
Critical Care Nurse – I don’t recall seeing any post on this blog stating that our job is harder than yours. The next time you’re at work, see if you can get one of your colleagues to help you remove that chip from your shoulder. And, unless I’m in the wrong place, isn’t this an education blog?
Maureen Downey
November 23rd, 2009
11:23 am
Folks, I have to respond here that Get Schooled is an education blog, but it is open to anyone who wants to comment. I like the mix of teachers, administrators and parents – and the occasional student who stops by – as all have something to contribute. So, I am delighted to have critical care nurse and Gwinnett HS Teacher and anyone else drop in and share their ideas.
Maureen
ScienceTeacher671
November 23rd, 2009
11:34 am
@Tony, I disagree with your contention that block scheduling is all about emotion and doesn’t affect achievement. There are a number of reputable studies showing that achievement is usually significantly less on block schedules.
@Critical Care Nurse – there are many police & fire & EMTs, industrial workers, and other jobs that work swing shifts and holidays. Some of those people in those jobs are married to teachers, FWIW.
For everyone else, I’m not in Cobb County, but it sounds as if there were plenty of opportunities for discussion before the new schedule was passed. Some people either didn’t pay attention beforehand, or are disappointed that their side lost.
Gwinnett HS Teacher
November 23rd, 2009
12:01 pm
Maureen – I wasn’t suggesting that Critical Care Nurse wasn’t welcomed to make comments on this blog. My point was that we (teachers) tend to speak about our hard work and endless responsibilities because this is an EDUCATION blog. That was all.
Critcal Care Nurse
November 23rd, 2009
12:30 pm
Gwinnett HS Teacher: My comments are not at all about you NOT working hard…But it was about the working hard/we need a break NOT being a legitimate reason to change the school year. This is a reason that many teachers, administratrators and BOE have used as a reason to have frequent breaks. My example was used to show that the difficulty of the job is not a legitimate argument for more breaks, not an implication that teachers don’t work hard. To make it simpler, the world world does not add more breaks for other professions just because they are tired.or because they need a break. If these calendar changes are truly of value, so valuable as to cause huge impact to the lives of so many parents and children, then they must have legitimate reasons for being made.
Maureen Downey
November 23rd, 2009
12:35 pm
Gwinnett, Thanks. That is how I read your comment, but I didn’t want anyone new to the blog to interpret it otherwise. We tend to be a straightforward and vocal bunch here, which I appreciate since I am direct. (I blame it on my New Jersey childhood.) But I didn’t want anyone new to our group to read unwanted intent into the comment.
Maureen
Gwinnett HS Teacher
November 23rd, 2009
12:41 pm
Critical Care Nurse – I assure you, I was not consulted about any changes in our school calendar! And, moreso – if I did have any input, it would not be a selfish decision on my part because my job is time-consuming and demanding! I knew that going into the profession. We were, however given 3 calendars and asked which one we liked best. I tend to think that “they” (those in charge) knew which calendar they wanted, because 2 of the 3 choices were ridiculous!
Maureen – I’m originally from New York, so, I always get “chastised” for being too blunt!
Badger
November 23rd, 2009
12:50 pm
Its really interesting the comments that are made here, IE: we need a break, we are sick, we are tired. I commend all teachers, as its a job that I would not do under any circumstances. But these types of comments really grate on my nerves and in my conversations, the nerves of other people also. We work year round, with two weeks vacation and holidays off for the most part. I know teachers go back to work weeks before school starts and work weeks after school ends, but they still get more time off than most workers and make, at least in my district a good salary. So those comments of being tired and sick and needing a break really falls on deaf ears. What everyone should be complaining about is the way the BOE members we elected lied. One example is the chairman whose election platform was to be against a balanced calendar. This individual has proven himself to be untrustworthy and a liar. His only comment in his defence is he looked it over and decided to vote for it. As for the others, did any board member ask what the parents wanted? NO! They queried teachers and administrators to find out what they wanted. Personally I have an attorney that is looking into the lies to see if an impeachment process is possible. If not I will campaign hard and long to make sure that none are reelected.
Critcal Care Nurse
November 23rd, 2009
1:26 pm
Maureen: sorry, but it did come across clearly as “this is MY playground, get out!” As a prior teacher (yes, I did say that) I am unimpressed. Straightforward is one thing, childish is another. Is this a vent or a blog? Are visitors not supposed to bring up “the rest of the story”? I thought this was a forum for meaningful, respectful dialogue…seems I came to the wrong playground.
Save the Economy
November 23rd, 2009
1:27 pm
Anyone notice the whole summer vacation thing? There’s a reason why beaches, lakes and mountains are full of people in the summer- it remains the best time to use those resources. Cape Cod loses a lot of charm in October, and WhiteWater is a little chilly in February. Our vacation industry is a multi bazillion dollar industry, and things like the balanced calendar are going to choke it out at a time when a little boost is desperately needed. And for what? The balanced calendar doesn’t improve academics, and largely seems driven by folks who burn out (wimps- I’m a teacher and generally have perfect attendance) and those who want a leaf peeping week in September and a ski week in February. In the past summer was a time to harvest crops. Today we use it to harvest tourist dollars. As Cobb residents watch tourists driving past a shuttered Six Flags on their way to Florida (or South Carolina, etc…) with their dollars, at least their kids will get a valuable economics lesson- a lesson they won’t get from a job since their summer will be too brief to allow for one.
wolverine
November 23rd, 2009
1:57 pm
Badger,
Isn’t it clear that some teachers liked the balanced calendar and others didn’t, just as some parents like it but others don’t? You make it sound like the BOE pushed through that everyone was against. It is always the case that people who are unhappy speak louder than those who are, but maybe the board chairperson did indeed listen to parents and more parents liked the balanced calendar. Just because your circle doesn’t have many people who like the calendar does not mean that there are plenty who do.
Gwinnett HS Teacher
November 23rd, 2009
2:07 pm
Critical Care Nurse – I’m so sorry that you were offended. Most of the adults I deal with aren’t so sensitive, especially when opinions (not facts) are discussed. Additionally, this is not MY playground – it’s Maureen’s; and she said it’s okay for you to play here! (Smile – don’t get so defensive:)
Maureen Downey
November 23rd, 2009
2:12 pm
Critical Care Nurse, You are always welcome here. I think it is easy to read tone into online comments, which is why I never e-mail my editors anything important as I want my tone to be clear.
If I wasn’t clear, please stay. We appreciate your insights.
Maureen
Another Thought
November 23rd, 2009
2:12 pm
To Badger and others – I don’t think anyone who’s not a teacher fully understands what most of us mean by “break.” When school starts up in August, we hit the ground running and go zero to sixty in no time. To use Critical Care Nurse’s job as an analogy, it’s like coming back from a vacation to work back to back to back 12 hour shifts for 3 months straight – even weekends are busy. I look forward to my breaks because it means I can catch up on my work – isn’t that sad? And I’m not alone. I will have more free-time this week, but I will still be doing some work – many teachers will. With all the new paperwork supporting the Georgia Keys and standards-based education, RTI, and NCLB, grading often gets left by the wayside – breaks are the only time to catch up. We’re filling out paperwork to show that we’ve filled out paperwork – I wish I’d see people as up in arms over that as they are over the calendar. We often try to compare to Japan – while they may go more days, Japanese teachers actually teach LESS and have less paperwork.
For those of you who want to talk about “well, other jobs…blah blah blah…” – true, to an extent. Most folks who have professional jobs with hours like teachers and take home work get paid a lot more – even when figuring in time off (and truth be told, many of those folks have more time off than just two weeks). Those that don’t make as much as teachers rarely have the responsibility and rarely take home work with them. Their evenings and weekends are their own. There is also the infamous study that showed the average office worker wasted an average of 2 hours a day – I wish I had that time to waste.
FWIW, I would rather have a few more three day weekends rather than a full week – I could use one day to catch up on work, one to catch up with household chores, and one to relax. Right now, I don’t get that one to relax – my joke is that summer is my comp time for all my ruined weekends. Also FWIW, this is not my first career – I have served in the military and worked for both a large and small private company. For every pro in one work sector there is a corresponding con. None of us really have it good, unless we’re lottery winners.
Badger
November 23rd, 2009
2:21 pm
Wolverine, if you would have read the original posts and statements about how the vote came about you would know that : A) The board admitted to only querying teachers and admins. B) The vote itself was a complete suprise, without notifying the public at large that a discussion ( which never took place)or vote to take place. The vote was obviously discussed behind closed doors because they already knew the public was against it but the teachers and administrators were for it. All this was admitted by the board with the chairman making a statement that “yes he campaigned, saying he was against a balanced calendar but after looking at it he voted for it. This liar refused to answer anymore questions and stated in essence the calendar is set deal with it. So Wolverine its not my circle but a pursuit of the boards own agenda that has brought this about. I would suggest you actually research the facts before opening mouth and inserting foot.
Critcal Care Nurse
November 23rd, 2009
3:06 pm
Thanks, Maureen, I appreciate your efforts. I must point out, however that “see if you can get one of your colleagues to help you remove that chip from your shoulder.” was not mistakenly interpreted …it was very clear and unearned. And GHS’s “you’re just too sensitive thing”, is bogus. I expect adults to discuss things with a modicum of respect, with no name-calling or personal attacks…the same things I hold my kids to.
BecksMom
November 23rd, 2009
5:18 pm
Critical care nurse – I don’t know; it seems to me that you do seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Yes, I know that your job is demanding and all, but, nobody said that it wasn’t! I think I read that you used to be an educator – so, you should know that we all have EVERYONE breathing down our necks when their children can’t/won’t/refuse to learn. If one of your patients didn’t take your advice or didn’t take their medication, would you get blamed?
Tony
November 23rd, 2009
6:06 pm
ScienceTeacher – Please provide references to the works. A quick scan revealed several peer-reviewed journal articles related to block scheduling and student achievement. Of the 10 that I looked at, half indicated modest gains in achievement for most subjects when 4×4 blocks are used. The other half indicated no differences in achievement. However, in reviewing the literature there is no overwhelming indication that block scheduling has an impact – either positive or negative – on student achievement. This is why I put it in the same category as the other emotional, no-win battles.
April
November 23rd, 2009
6:14 pm
Daycare expenses increase significantly for teachers on the balanced calendar. When my kids were little, I could withdraw them for the summer and only begin paying again when preplanning started. With a balanced calendar, the daycare providers will not let you skip payment on the weeks that school is not in session – no matter how far in advance you tell them. I have always had to pay for the week of Thanksgiving and spring break and the two weeks of Christmas – even though I was not working and chose to spend that time with my child instead of sending him to day care anyway. The same applied when my system went to a balanced calendar. I had the same experience at three different daycare centers.
wolverines
November 23rd, 2009
6:32 pm
Badger,
I thought Maureen had a blog about the “upcoming” vote on the calendar – so I can’t imagine the vote was “a complete surprise.”
irisheyes
November 23rd, 2009
10:26 pm
UGH. I get so tired of this. As soon as a teacher says that they have a difficult job, someone has to jump in with the “Well, you may think your job is hard, but in MY job, I have to. . .” I don’t think teachers think they have the hardest jobs in the world (that would be a little hard to quantify), but our jobs ARE hard, and they get harder everyday. Why do you think there is so much burnout?
Critical Care Nurse, you said you were an educator. I’m curious as to why you left education to go into nursing. More money? Shorter work weeks? More prestige? More control over your income and future? What were your reasons?
Personally, I like a more year round system. One school system near me in where I used to live had a calendar that was basically nine weeks on, three weeks off. For the first week of every three week break, they had “summer school”. The kids who had struggled that nine weeks could come in for an extra week of remediation. I thought it was a good plan because it caught those kids who were having trouble before they had lost a whole school year being lost and confused. Teachers could volunteer to teach those weeks and get paid like they would for summer school. It worked out so that they had about 4 – 5 weeks of summer vacation.
irisheyes
November 23rd, 2009
10:27 pm
ANNND, it looks like I got caught in the filter!
Maureen Downey
November 23rd, 2009
10:31 pm
irisheyes, You are out of the filter.
Maureen
irisheyes
November 23rd, 2009
10:35 pm
Maureen, I think we need to discuss how many “after hours” you work. You always seem to be posting or freeing us from the filter any time of day. Thanks!
Maureen Downey
November 23rd, 2009
10:49 pm
irisheyes, I am online fairly regularly until about 11, but the late-night posters – folks who somehow have energy to think and write at 1 a.m. – have to wait until the morning to get sprung.
I would love to figure out how to keep people out of the filter in the first place as many legitimate comments end up there, but it’s not an AJC program so we don’t control the spam parameters.
See you all tomorrow.
Maureen
Warrior Woman
November 23rd, 2009
11:37 pm
@ Reality2 – If you don’t see how a balanced calendar increases childcare costs, you haven’t been paying childcare recently. Daycare providers and “camps” (in the childcare sense, not the summer camp sense) typically charge a registration fee for each session. More sessions means more fees. In addition, as April noted, many care providers require you to pay even for break weeks you don’t attend, so having to pay for more weeks is the reality.
For my family, this is irrelevant, because my kids don’t go to daycare. I’m far more concerned that the balanced calendar reduces opportunities for non-school learning. Summer jobs will be harder to obtain, intensive learning camps are harder to fit in, as are mission trips, summer camps, etc.
The adoption of the balanced calendar is catering to the lowest common denominator – attempting to reduce gaps by dragging top performers down instead of bringing bottom performers up. This helps no one.
The balanced calendar is not proven to have academic benefits, costs both families (child care costs and summer job income foregone) and school systems more (think heating and cooling costs), increases smog (more buses in hot weather), and harms extracurricular learning. It was adopted without opportunity for meaningful public debate using an input format that was designed to weight school employee input far more heavily than parent input. It was adopted by elected officials that pledged to oppose it – a clear ethical violation.
@ irisheyes – If so many teachers didn’t complain about how hard their jobs are, fewer people would push back on the topic. Most jobs are hard and harder in the current environment. Teaching is nothing special in this regard. As a former teacher (HS and college), I know I work harder and longer hours than I ever did teaching full-time, with an equivalent stress level. Only the source of the stress has changed – I now have more management support than I did when teaching.
ScienceTeacher671
November 24th, 2009
8:23 am
Don’t you think that if the forum addressed another subject, you’d have another type of employee talking about the things that make their jobs difficult?
Philosopher
November 24th, 2009
8:45 am
There is nothing wrong with talking all day and all night about how hard your job is. I have seen noone refuting of the fact that you work hard.
But…when you use “we work so hard” and “we are so tired”as a basis to add “rest breaks”, and these “rest breaks” cause HUGE financial burdens and stress unequally on the people affected, you are fair game for that argument being called into account. As there have been no other reasons, valid or otherwise, brought to the table, you need to address these concerns intead of attacking the people negatively affected….without doing that, you lose credibility.
Reality 2
November 24th, 2009
8:50 am
Warrior Woman,
Yes, you are right – my kids are now teen agers, so they can more or less take care of themselves at home. But, I don’t think all childcare providers or summer camps work like the way you describe it. Unless the “registration fees” for those break weeks are higher than what they would usually charge during the summer weeks, I don’t see how that adds to the total cost.
Although I agree with Maureen that presenting ANY calendar as a way to boost academic achievement is bogus, at the same time I don’t buy your arguement that this balanced calendar will reduce the opportunities. All of those providers will adjust their calendar – after all, they can’t run their programs without students, and if they are private entities, they probably want to make money. So, the argument about reduced learning opportunities is also bogus.
People say that there is no evidence that a balanced calendar will improve academic achievement and they are absolutely correct. However, there is no research evidence that the traditional calendar does any better – given the current state of our schools, it isn’t unreasonable to think that the traditional calendar hasn’t really done much to support students’ achievements, either.
Either way, what need to change to improve achievement is actually what happens when students are in classrooms,regardless of a calendar a school system adopts.
As for the cost, I don’t necessarily see how it will cost schools more money. If you take a week off, then you don’t heat/cool the building those weeks nor run school buses. How does the weather in September or February compare to the weather in late May? I can’t see them that different. So, that argument is also bogus.
The only argument I can somewhat buy is whether or not there was enough public, including teachers and parents, inputs. The BOE makes many decisions at their meetings. Each meeting includes time for public comments, and the agenda for the meetings are always published ahead of time. For many decisions, that seems to be plenty. Why should this decision be different? I’m not sure.
ScienceTeacher671
November 24th, 2009
9:17 am
@Tony, there is quite a bit of contradictory research on block scheduling, and many of the studies have significant flaws. That said, the GaDOE has done studies (none recently that I can find) and almost all showed that schools on regular schedules outperformed those on block schedules on both the SAT and Georgia-specific tests. Gruber & Onwuegbuzie had similar findings. The Bateson studies in Canada are well-known. The College Board found that students on regular schedules had significantly higher AP exam scores than students on block schedules, and a study in the midwest found that students on regular schedules had significantly higher ACT scores.
Maureen Downey
November 24th, 2009
9:36 am
ScienceTeacher, DOE was supposed to follow up on that original SAT study and never did.
Maureen
ScienceTeacher671
November 24th, 2009
9:38 am
Philosopher, I don’t live in the district, so I don’t really “have a dog in the fight” so to speak. Personally, I’d prefer such a schedule not because “I work so hard” or “I need a break” or “I’m so tired”, but because I prefer to take vacations in fall when it’s cooler and not so crowded, rather than in summer when it’s hot. Also, as I’ve already said, when I was not teaching and was using daycare, the costs overall would have been the same. Things may be different now.
ScienceTeacher671
November 24th, 2009
9:40 am
Maureen, some of DOE’s older reports say they are supposed to do an annual report on block scheduling & student achievement, but the most recent one I can find is about 4 years ago.
Maureen Downey
November 24th, 2009
9:47 am
ScienceTeacher, That’s the last one. I used to bug Dana about it, but he said they just didn’t do any others. (I am interested in block as my system has it and I don’t think it works well. I also interviewed the UVA and Harvard researchers who looked at how teachers adapted to block – they found few did anything differently in the expanded time. I remain leery of it, especially in terms of AP classes that kids take in the fall but don’t get tested on until the late spring.
I would certainly advise any kids in block high schools to take their APs in the spring so they are in the class actively learning the material when they take the AP test.
Maureen
ScienceTeacher671
November 24th, 2009
10:43 am
Maureen, I’d love to know why they didn’t do any others. Many of the schools in our area switched back from block to regular schedule when their test scores dropped & didn’t rebound enough.
I admit that in many ways, block scheduling works better for teachers (love having more time for labs, LOVE the longer planning period!), but I don’t think it works as well for most students in most subjects. The problem with AP is that in some schools, the classes are only offered in fall semester.
Notice that in the DOE study of EOCTs, Algebra I was the one subject that looked better under block. I know of at least one system that required students to take Algebra I as a full-year course under block, which gave those students 50% more time in class instead of 25% less time…if other systems did the same, could have influenced the results.
luvs2teach
November 24th, 2009
10:47 am
Warrior Woman – I find your comment about working harder now interesting, because my experience has been the opposite. I was in the Marine Corps (when there was no war going on) and then pharmaceutical sales, and I work harder now than I ever did – even when we had field ops. Of course maybe it’s that whole Marine Corps concept of giving 110% – who knows.
My kids are older, and so like others, I don’t have a dog in this fight. I am contracted to work 190 (+/- this year, as we all know) days. I don’t care when they are – breaks are nice, but they have a downside, too – specially ’squirreliness’ in the days prior. Someone’s point about daycare charging whether you go or not is dead-on though, so this will actually cost some teachers more money (they have to pay for daycare even though their kids aren’t attending that week to keep their spot).
In all honesty though, I don’t understand the attachment to a calendar that exists for an agricultural way of life that really no longer exists. I would rather see a month off in the summer (like Europe) and a month off in the winter (Thanksgiving to New Year’s is a wash, anyway) – but no one is asking me, lol.
high school teacher
November 24th, 2009
5:06 pm
luvs2teach, I am with you! BTW, when mine were little in daycare, we still had to pay 1/2 tuition in the summers to reserve their spot. Does anyone else have to do this?
pay attention folks
November 24th, 2009
5:44 pm
Maureen and Science Teacher,
My guess is that the DOE stopped studying whether or not block was effective when they increased the graduation requirements. ALL students(effective with the class of 2012) now need four units of math and science, and 24 credits in all to graduate. Block certainly offers more “wiggle room” to meet these requirements.
ScienceTeacher671
November 24th, 2009
8:27 pm
pay attention folks, that’s a good point, especially since students who don’t graduate on time are considered dropouts under NCLB. On the other hand, since NCLB is all about test scores, it seems that anything that reduces test scores would be discouraged.
pay attention folks
November 24th, 2009
8:46 pm
I suspect we’ll see the state legislature try again this winter to override the state DOE and return to a three tierd diploma system (legislation was proposed last year, but died in committee). If Ga adjusts graduation requirements perhaps block will lose some appeal.
Can anyone tell me how many credits per year stuents on a tradional high school schedule earn in a year(i’m thinking 6-7)? Students on block earn 8 per year.
ScienceTeacher671
November 24th, 2009
8:49 pm
Before we went to block, students earned 6 credits per year, but some of the advanced students got an Algebra I credit in 8th grade…back when we still had Algebra I….
pay attention folks
November 24th, 2009
8:59 pm
OK….that explains a lot. 6 credits x 4 years = 24 credits. EXACTLY the number needed to graduate with the class 2012 and beyond…
I’ve looked at other states-high performing ones at that, and they are requiring more in the neighborhood of 22 credits to graduate.
More does not equal better.
ScienceTeacher671
November 24th, 2009
9:26 pm
“Back in the day” we needed 21 credits…
I’m hoping they’ll go back to the tiered diploma system. Even better would be allowing students to earn more vocational certificates in high school, instead of post high school. All students don’t want or need to go to college, but all ought to graduate with some viable skills.
And more does not equal better, especially when it’s been watered down and dumbed down and one only needs to get 45% correct to pass the EOCT.
E. Streets
November 30th, 2009
11:30 am
Those for “balanced calender” or year round calender(simply called balanced to decieve the general public)can quote research in their behalf. There is just as much out there to disprove the theories. This has been attempted over and over from California to New Jersey since at least 1950’s. Who benefits from the balanced calender? The teachers! Who wouldn’t love a work schedule that allows a couple of weeks off every 8-9 weeks.( off WITH your kids) a neat family plan, if you are teachers!! If you are part of the general working, tax paying, voting, other 99% you are challenged with child care issues everytime you turn around. Not too mention not enough time in the summer to acheive a decent family vacation or unwind from the continuous and increaseing stress of keeping your kids abreast of everything school requires. When us 30 – to 50 year olds were in school, we began in September, a quick Christmas break, along weekend in the spring and we were out by Memorial Day. I’ll bet our performance was numbers ahead of kids today. I also beleive there is research to show that a shorter year(even by a month) would decrease our school cost, oddly enough this is never mentioned. But as you mentioned before It is also about the UNDERperformers. We must provide meals and care for the nonperforming percentage, at the cost of the whole. The home life, education system and pocketbook of the working parent again the victim.