WTOC reports: Parent says school took paddling too far

I agree with the parent and your article. The school system claims to be mandate reporters, so if our children come to school with apparent bruises, parents are immediately suspected of abuse and are in trouble. I also agree with you in saying that “there is no evidence that kids raised on corporal punishment are better behaved as a result.” We do not want a stranger disciplining our child with physical contact, and we should be informed prior to any action taken. Who knows what this “educator’s” agenda is anyway.

Based on my dealing with the school systems, the counsellors all seem to be reading from the same playbook called “stupid.”. Based on my research, under NCLB, parents should be informed prior to the initiation of any disciplinary action against the child. The way the law is written the school has to make a good faith attempt to contact the parent, and if there is no contact, the school has to send a certified letter within 48 hours to the parent about the action it intends to take.

Because these blogs have educated me so to the inner workings of the school system, and the lack of due process our children encounter if there is a problem, these are our instructions to our child of what is expected while at school:

Sit down, be respectful, do not disrupt the class, no name calling, no agressive behaviour, no intentional physical contact with anyone. If there is an incident(because there will be), and you are taken to the office by the counsellors, resource officer or administration, you are to ask politely for the school to call your parents, or call us yourself. If the school refuses to call and/or allow you to call us, sit there and do not say another word, do not give any statements orally or written, and do not sign any prepared statements. They have to send you home eventually if you are not involved in any incident that could be deemed criminal. They cannot punish you any further if you sit quietly in the office!

In Gwinnett County, a recent audit showed there have been nuemrous incidents when the resource officers/adminsitration have detained children without due process aka parents not being informed in a timely manner and the child being detained. Children have been intimated to sign or make statements that have been used against them without the parent even being present. The parents only find out about the statements when the school system is ready to impose the punishment and which time it is too late.

Questions that should be raised [a] are children precluded from their constitutional rights while at school? [b] if the death penalty is seen as “cruel and unsual” punishment and prisioners’ rights are always being protected, why are schools engaging in physical discipline with children?

I know many will argue that this is not a death penalty or prisioners’ rights issue, which is true, but the physical punishment is no less cruel and unusal, and who protects the rights of our children in schools?.

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The article is correct — there have been no studies that show even a little benefit to inflicting corporal punishment in children in schools [nor in homes for that matter]. But there have been many research studies published in respected journals that all reach the same conclusion — school corporal punishment is bad for students, and should be stopped immediately. If a reader is unsure if corporal punishment is allowed in their county, call the office of the superintendent and ask. And please do call or e-mail your state senator or representative and ask that Georgia join the 30 states that have now prohibited physical punishment of school kids. Good school discipline is instilled in the mind, not the behind. Here is much more info: http://www.stophitting.org

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Perhaps if these children had been paddled at home, they wouldnt need to do it in school. I think that’s part of the problem with our schools in Georgia–the teachers have their hands tied and there is no discipline or punishment in the home. No child left behind and no punishment for inappropriate behavior–no wonder they arent getting an education and the schools are failing.

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@ScienceTeacher671, why do I need to elaborate?

I am sure all parties here would agree that no human being is ever going to go through life without any unpleasant incidents, whether they instigated it or not. It is even more likely that children in a school environment will have many more of such unpleasant incidents just by the very nature of the structure of the organization, or because children have not yet acquired the nuances of life and how to avoid unpleasant interactions or situations.

No where in my response did I indicate that I expected my child would get into trouble. The piece indicated that if there was an incident, which could also include my child being in the classroom/cafeteria/restroom/playground/school bus when an incident occurred, being a witness to harm being done to another child, being aware of threats, seeing a weapon or some violation to the policy and being asked to make a statement, We want to be there if our child is involved in any such situtations before the child makes any statement.

What administrators/teachers/resource officers have not yet grappled with and addressed is that there is an incredible lack of trust by parents for these “educators” to address the issues in a manner that does not violate the policy, that is fair, and also does not violate our rights.

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I was paddled in numerous schools on many occasions in several different states. Paddling does not work. Suspension at hom is free time for the student. What does work? In school suspension.

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Parent, I apparently misunderstood your comment, which seemed to me to indicate that you expected that at some point your well-behaved child would be unjustly accused of some misbehavior.

We all understand that there is an incredible degree of distrust by some parents. I was trying to understand if the distrust on your part was due to prior incidents, or due to your experiences as a student, or due to things you’ve read in the newspapers.

Personally, I don’t think the mistrust is justified in most cases – although I do believe in the axiom “trust, but verify” – but if I had as little trust in teachers as some parents here do, there is no way I would send my children into their care on a daily basis.

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@gamom, remember that “correlation does not equal causation”. It’s very possible that the districts that allow corporal punishment are also the smaller, lower socioeconomic level districts that tend to value education less.

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I’ll let those online Phd types (who probably have no kids of their own) argue about whether or not paddling is an effective discipline measure. The bottom line is this, if a parent has zero respect for their child’s teacher and/or administrators, there is no way in hell they will agree to let them paddle their child.

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#1 Education website DetentionSlip.org has been fighting the battle to END paddling in schools. Check out all the controversial stories at http://www.detentionslip.org/search/label/corporal%20punishment

Aren’t we trying to end patterns of violence in schools?

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I would like to see the degree of support for classroom teachers that this blog indicates for misbehaving students.

I am not in favor of schools paddling, but I am also not in favor of us continuing to coddle misbehaving students. Give a student a child to make corrections through ISS ONCE. After that, suspend the child and require the child and parents to attend class at the courtroom during school hours. That would put a quick end to the misbehavior, because many parents want babysitting–they want to shuffle off their problems on the school system. It would also pre-empt the problem of kids home alone, enjoying their OSS. One or two days of educational programs at the courthouse would serve to enlist parental interest in solving the problem.

Until the parents of chronically misbehaving students suffer the kind of imposition their child’s behavior imposes on the other students and teachers in the school, there won’t be improvement very often. Unfortunately (as we have seen) there is no such thing as shame anymore.

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@gamom, I don’t think I disagree with what you teach your children if you’re teaching them that teachers aren’t allowed to hit them or touch them in a sexual manner. If you’re teaching them that teachers can’t tell them to sit down and/or be quiet, etc., I have a problem with that.

I suspect that if you were in a district that allowed corporal punishment, you’d be one of the parents that opted out. Having lived and taught in such a district, I find it very hard to believe that the mother was surprised to find out that spanking was allowed there.

If the mother had signed a paper saying that her child could not be spanked, or had not signed the paper saying that he could (however the district’s policies work) I think she has a case. If the child was actually hit hard enough for it to be abusive, she probably has a case, although that might be harder to prove.

As far as not contacting the mother, I don’t know if it’s the case here, but you’d be absolutely amazed to find out how many parents do not have working telephone numbers on file with the school. If I had a dollar for every time I’ve gotten the “this number has been disconnected or is no longer in service” recording, I’d be out shopping.

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I became an advocate for children’s rights to be treated with human dignity and respect in our nation’s SCHOOLS (ABOLISH Physical/Corporal Punishment) in Feb. 2008 after my son was threatened with being hit with a WOODEN PADDLE by an administrator at his Middle School in a small, rural community, Houston County, TN, where we purchased a farm and relocated to in order to raise our children in a less congested environment. There are only 8,000 residents and one of each elementary, middle and high school with enrollments of around 300 students each. We did read our school district’s student handbook and were shocked to see that children could be subjected to Corporal Punishment, but in our complacency, we never dreamed that it would happen to any of our children, we signed and returned the adknowledgement. No opt our form is provided and it is incumbent upon parents/guardians to write a letter for each child, each year and give it to the principal, to request they be exempted from corporal punishment, then it is up to the discretion of the principal (I have since found out that Tennessee State Law does not require parental consent or notification for school employees to administer corporal punishment on children). We have never had a discipline problem with any of our 3 children at home or school. They are all intelligent, reasonable and well-behaved. One Friday at 2:30 p.m., I was on my way to the Middle School to pick up my son and two neighbor boys who ride with us, when my cell phone rang. It was the middle school assistant principal who informed me that she was about to administer a paddling to my son for “Going outside with his class when he was told to stay in.” THE ONLY REASON I RECEIVED A CALL IS BECAUSE I’VE TAUGHT MY 3 CHILDREN FROM A VERY EARLY AGE THAT “NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO TOUCH THEM, THEY CAN SAY “NO”, GET AWAY AND TELL SOMEONE” TO PROTECT THEM FROM SEXUAL ABUSE! My son told her they could not paddle him and they had to call his parents. I felt very intimidated and almost agreed to her form of punishment, then I had a moment of clarity and said “We don’t hit our children and we don’t want you to hit them”. She informed me that he still had to be “PUNISHED” and after discussion, an acceptable, non-violent form of “discipline” was agreed upon. My husband and I made an appointment to meet with the principal and assistant principal and the first thing they did was go to a filing cabinet and inform us that we had signed the acknowledgement from the student handbook. I immediately began researching the internet for state government officials to write in order to demand Physical/Corporal Punishment of Children in schools be prohibited. I came across a group called “Tennesseans for Non-Violent School Discipline” and when I read some of the stories from families in the news, and how helpless they were to protect their children from being hit with WOODEN PADDLES at school, resulting in severe deep bruising injuries and fear of school to their children, I cried and had to stop reading. I VOWED TO BE A COMMITTED VOICE FOR CHILDREN AND FAMILIES to stop government sanctioned child abuse in our nation’s schools. NO CHILD DESERVES TO BE TOUCHED BY ANY ADULT WHO IS ENTRUSTED WITH THEIR CARE AND EDUCATION, IT MUST BE HANDS-OFF! I have learned so much, the Federal and State Government officials leave the very serious matter that put school districts at risk for lawsuits for paddling injuries up to “individual local school districts”. My husband and I made a verbal/written presentation to members of our local school district governing board of education in April 2008, during “National Child Abuse Prevention and Awareness Month” to demand they prohibit Physical/Corporal Punishment of children in our schools, and to date, 11/09, we have received NO RESPONSE, no letter, no phone call, they have IGNORED US! In other words, there is NO ACCOUNTABILITY! Meanwhile our children’s learning environment includes witnessing middle school teachers take wooden paddles out of their desk drawers to threaten students with physical pain for minor infractions such as not turning in homework, etc. Students are taken to the hallway, just outside of class, within earshot of classmates, where the teacher instructs them to “Bend over and grab your ankles”, while holding their pants belt loop and hits them with a wooden paddle. Then the battered student immediately faces classmated with red and tear-stained face when they return to their seat. This all takes place with NO PARENTAL CONSENT OR NOTIFICATION! My husband and I are VEHEMENTLY OPPOSED to our children’s learning environment including FEAR, ANXIETY, DREAD AND HUMILIATION! Physical/Corporal Punishment of Children in SCHOOLS is ILLEGAL in 30 STATES! It is OUTRAGEOUS that ALL of our nation’s children do not have EQUAL access to safe, healthy learning environments in 21st Century classrooms! Research indicates that Physical/Corporal Punishment is harmful to children and causes anti-social behavior and also lowers children’s IQ’s from stress caused by fear. Over 50 National Children’s Health and Education Organizations have issued official position statements OPPOSING Physical/Corporal Punishment of Children in SCHOOLS including The American Medical Association (AMA), The American Academy of Pediatricians, The American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, The American Academy of Family Physicians, The American Bar Association, The American Humane Association, The American Psychiatric Assocation, The American Psychological Association, The American Public Health Association, The American School Counselors Association, The Association for childhood Education International, The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), The National Mental Health Association, The Natioal Parent Teacher Association (PTA), The National Education Association (NEA) and Prevent Child Abuse America among others. Over a 5 year period this decade, since 2000, over 2,500 teachers have been punished for improper sexual relations with our nation’s school children. Spanking fetish websites number in the millions and the pornography and prostitution industries make big profits from exploiting spanking/severe beating of children.

I know in my heart that if I had allowed a school employee to hit my child with a wooden paddle, it would have caused irreperable damage our mother/child bond of love and trust that I have spent his lifetime working to establish, from giving birth to him, nursing him and raising him to the best of my ability, never condoning violence, instead teaching my children to get away and tell someone. He would have resented me for the rest of his life and mine for allowing him to experience the physical, emotional and psychological pain, suffering and humiliation of being hit with a WOODEN PADDLE by a school employee withinin earshot of his peers during the formative teenage period of his identity struggling for acceptance by his peers and establishing his independence.

The Cost to ABOLISH Physical/Corporal Punishment of ALL Children in ALL SCHOOLS is $0.

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@ATL mike – it doesn’t work though!

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I think corporal punishment is effective in helping some students. As all forms of discipline, it is not a be all or end all.

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To those who would advocate “…childrens’ rights…”, understand that the overprotective nature of your concerns is, in itself, child abuse of the highest order. In allowing your kid to escape the undeniable message, weilded through the use of the paddle, that he is in violation of standard norms of behavior, you are all-but-guaranteeing him an adult life of disappointment and disallusionment. Granted, the paddle should be the absolute last means of “sending the message”…most kids, as with adults, should exhibit favorable behavior modification with far-less corrective measures.

Ever had a speeding ticket? Maybe two, three, or more. At the prerogative of the officer, the offender may initially receive a verbal warning. Follow-on offenses would warrant monetery fines of escalating amounts. At some point in time, (normal) people, in the face of “monetery pops on the six”, will respond favorably. Any reasonable person would agree that repeated warnings from the officer would have little-to-zero chance of affecting a change in behavior behind the wheel.

The blinded parent who would claim that “the cost to abolish physical/corporal punishment of all children in all schools is $0″ either can’t be serious, or is greately in need of reality awareness. The social costs, amply though sadly demonstrated through the ever-escalating numbers of wayward youth shuffling through the penal systems of America, should serve as undeniable indication that the costs of abolishing the paddle are immense!

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Paddling definitely does work for most students. It should be on the books that all schools have corporal punishment as one means of discipline in the school. I am amazed now, at how different schools are from when I was in school. Paddling worked on me and also on my brothers. ISS works to an extent, but, kids will just get demerits to go home for OSS. THere will always be the kids who will not behave at all. THey really don’t belong in school at all. THey need to be at a trade school.
Discipline at home would help. Not the”honey, don’t do that”. But honest to goodness discipline! No means no, and you will get it if you misbehave!
THe school I taught at last year needed corporal punishment, but it wasn’t allowed. THose students will move on to disrupt middle school and high school. It is not fair to the students that behave and want to work.
Fortunately, I am at a school now that has great parents and great students. But it would still be nice to have the Paddle option.

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I am a retire school administrator. I have former students come up to me and tell me the reason they behaived in school was because they knew I would paddle them from continued disruptions and other out of line behavior. Most of these students are successful in their jobs and community. To often parents use the excuse of not allow discipline by the school as an excuse to cover the fact that the student actually runs the home! This leaves the school with one option. Suspension or explusion Many time I see former students names in the local paper police blotter who have no disipline at home and the school is not allowed to disipline the student. With massive government in our schools and God and discipline gone our schools are failing.

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@coach and retired administrator – where is the study and data that says it works in an education setting. I seem to recall back in the day in the school i went to, it was always the same kids getting paddled, doing the same things over and over, getting into trouble. Please justify hitting with a wooden board if the child has an undetermined medical condition – such as a bleeding disorder, neurological disorder or a pregnant girl – are you going to justify it then to?

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@science teacher – Please name one college of education that teaches educators this.

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@catlady I have a couple of questions for you since you are a seasoned educator of 40 years and that takes guts. Beleive me when I say this, I couldn’t be an educator. Not for me. I respect teachers wholeheartedly because it is a nobel profession that can shape our future generations for years to come. What do you say if a child has been possibly abused or neglected at home – should they be paddled? Sometimes you educators are the ones that pick up on this and after all you are mandated reporters correct? How is it possible then that anyone in the education system can equate discipline with hitting. I have read a multitude of reports on Positive Behavior Supports. Why are schools in Georgia not embracing this to help with school climate and disciplinary issues. Do schools have to be weaned off the bad habit of paddling? It seems so profoundly ridiculous at this point that this is even being discussed in 2009. Surely the other 30 states have just as many disciplinary issues as we do here in Georgia, and they educate just fine without the paddle. Many of those states student achievement indicators are above ours here in Georgia. Discipline means ‘to teach’ last I checked. All kids are not perfect angels and test boundaries all the time. . What do you think about PBIS? http://www.pbis.org for more information. Incidentally, the Dignity in Schools Organization has a national initiative to call on lawmakers around the country to stop school pushout and school corporal punishment. Maybe you might want to check it out. This is 2009, at least 50 % of parents polled now, would want to know prior and not ‘after the fact’ as you said and at least 50% of parents polled would be opposed. It is not acceptable anymore nor appropriate IMHO

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catlady :I have been on countless fieldtrips with my kids in the past 22 years (yes..have had kids in public schools that long) On every field trip, the teachers sat together, facing forward, talking to each other all day long and left the control of the kids almost entirely to the poor, hapless parents!

Terry- you might as welll give up. People who want to beat their kids will continue to do so and rationalize it in the same old tired ways forever. It makes no difference at all to them that it is wrong, proven to be unnecessary and counterproductive..it makes them feel good! So what if you and I and millions of other parents have raised respectful, productive, loving kids without hitting them…they will never change their ways.

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Concerned Parent, you come on here every time with the same spiel. Seriously, do what you do. If it works…great. I use corporal punishment because I WANT to and I CAN. I am the parent. I make the rules. I am not touchy-feely, and won’t raise my kids that way. I don’t knock those that do, so stop handing me the same story about alternative discipline.

My husband has been a juvie probation officer, and adult probation officer, and now a teacher. He’s seen enough to know what forms of discipline are most effective, and that everything won’t work for every child. Period.

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@science guy – Do you know anything or have read anything at all about PBIS?

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OK then let me ask an honest question then and this is hypothetical cuz I don’t know you or your students. What if a single one of those children are getting abused or neglected at home OR what if one of those children have a medical issue that has not been disclosed to you by the parent or what if the child has a learning disability and his or her behavior is related to that BUT hasn’t been identified as of yet. Then what? Honest answers then. Are you aware of the many lawsuits that have been filed on this issue? If a behavior is that bad, what about calling in your support staff and ask for proper assessments and interventions then?

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ScienceGuy- Ditto Michael Goldberg… and don’t you DARE go near my kid!!! She would never do anything deserving punishment-that is her nature, but the stress of knowing you might hit her would cause her absolute terror and nightmares. You need help!!!

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Ah, heck- Goldfield I don’t type well when mad.

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Oldtimer:

I’m 28, and that was used as my punishment in middle school when I cursed in the presence of a teacher. These parents now would have a FIT if poor Johnny were made to do manual labor. Taught me a lesson about right and wrong that I remember to this day.My parents still whooped my behind when I got home though because I knew better. NEVER DID IT AGAIN.

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@science guy – if you are resorting to the paddling AT ALL, you are not effectively implementing PBIS. Do you know how many lawsuits are filed on districts for this? Previous news stories on Mississippi should enlighten you. Maybe educators need to sign an oath similar to nurses and doctors ‘to do no harm’. I think it’s high time they do. I feel bad if any of your students may have an undetected medical or mental disorder, then what? Where on God’s Green Earth did you learn about paddling – I am almost positive that nobody is training you on how not to injure – but maybe I am in the dark on that one.

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In the last school system where I worked before retiring, the schools sent a notice of options to the parents to select the type of discipline they wanted used for their child: in school suspension, out of school suspension, work study, or a paddling.

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Growing up, my four sisters and I always had a two-for-one deal … paddling at school always got a paddling at home, too. We all turned out pretty well if I may say so myself, a school teacher, a registered nurse, and three hard-working white collar ladies. Our parents would have never questioned the teacher or administrators. But, that’s the kind of parents with whom schools now have to deal. A sorry state our state and country have gotten in. Most parents do discipline in their own way, but our public schools have plenty of parents who don’t and the school systems and their classmates suffer. Many minutes (and often hours) are wasted on classroom discipline. Private schools can just kick the offenders out. Too bad public schools don’t have that option, other than maybe an alternative setting. They have to take them no matter how awful the behavior and how unmotivated to care about school.

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oh and joy– I’m left handed. Getting the ruler on my left hand 40 years ago did not change my left handedness either.

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I am curious how many of you, particularly educators, have read HB 605, the student disciplinary ACT of 1999, and, how many of have gone before your child’s school council to discuss why paddling works, or why it should be banned at your school if you are against the idea?
If spanking was an equal opportunity discipline measure that would be one thing, but according to recent data, children who are spanked more oftern then their peers are minoirties/blacks, and disabled kids. Could it be that spanking is tolerated and encouraged because it may inadvertently weed out the PERCEIVED WEAK in our society…after all, these are the same populations/disaggregate groups that drop out in Georgia and/or more likely to fail the high stakes tests? Perhaps remembering that we only began “deinstitutionalizing disabled persons/kids in 1963″ and in the South we only began providing equal education opportunites for blacks since the ESEA of 1964. I would also like to point out that white children, have been educated for over 200 years in our great country. Could it be that the almost 150 year head start for white “normal” children is actually why we have such an achievement gap at all?
I hope you don’t jump to conclusion about this being a racial thing, I think it is all about “survival of the fittest” and those in charge making decisions determine who is FIT.
I would also like to share….I agree parents should be made to spend time at the school when their child acts up and perhaps if folks look at HB 605 you will see there are disciplinary measures an educator can take other than spanking. Unfortunately, with 2014 approaching when 100% of the students, (exception being those taking the Georgia Alternative assesment) we are going to see more and more frustration amongst all school personnel. Parents are GOING to be null and void even more as school systems scramble to “make the AYP numbers work” for them. Regardless the outcomes, schools will always take credit for success, and parents will always be the scapegoat for the school system’s failures.

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I forgot, you can’t make students write as a punishment either. Some people actually think copying “I will not talk during class.” 100 times or writing an essay as a punishment will make students hate to write!

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all you hitters out there – keep justifying your disciplinary tactics all you want if it makes you feel better.

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[...] is the original: WTOC reports: Parent says school took paddling too far | Get Schooled By admin | category: american school | tags: academy, ama, children, council, free-time, [...]

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How about if the educators move away from the ‘punishment’ model to the discipline model. I am actually a parent that is o.k. with saturday school and ok with silent lunch if it is warranted, but I want to be included in determining the discipline right from the start. I don’t want my child’s behavior issue unknown to me. I don’t want any educator to assume that I don’t want to be involved because I do. At the start of a behavior issue, I want to be informed and I want to know what you are thinking right away. Because I can promise you that although I am not a proponent of harsh discipline I am a proponent of natural consequences and in my house that is extra chores, removal of privileges, writing an apology letter, no friends and the like, and it works in my house because I am the one responsible. Please stop assuming all of us parents who are against hitting are lax parents, we are not.

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To @Competitive:

Please reread my posts and look for the word “parent.” You will find that I did not use the word parent because the arguments against those punishments are made by educators, parents, academics, interest groups, and a host of other people who are not parents. Similarly, there are many people in a variety of groups who support those punishments. I am in no way making any statement about parents who do not want corporal punishment to be lax. Where did I write anything like that?

I will restate my message: Teachers need MORE OPTIONS for dealing with student misbehavior. If schools continue to ban any punishment that some group of people opposes, there will be no options left when punishment is required. If the punishments I listed above are not acceptable (and each of them is opposed by a significant group of people), then HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DISCIPLINE STUDENTS WHO MISBEHAVE? I want people to respond with more options and ideas.

Also, you mention moving from a punishment model to a discipline model. Please elaborate on what you mean by a discipline model. What are the differences in the models. Again, I’m not saying I’m opposed to your idea, I just want to know more about your idea.

I argue that no matter what discipline philosophy is implemented, there are always going to be students who make mistakes or poor choices and misbehave. Often, those actions require some form of punishment in response. We need options available in those situations. I have no problem involving the parent in developing a plan to change future behaviors, but the school must be able to make independent decisions on the punishment a student receives when misbehaving. We wouldn’t expect a judge to get our approval when sentencing our child after being convicted of a crime. Certainly, the parent deserves to be notified of misbehavior and punishments. However, it is impossible to notify a parent immediately every time a student talks in class and is assigned a silent lunch.

I see teachers who do a poor job maintaining discipline in their classes everyday. I am not denying that many teachers are the problem and many parents are excellent supporters of schools.All teachers must do a better job of establishing authority and relationships, providing bell to bell instruction, etc. But we also need options for dealing with misbehavior, and those options are being taken away from us. We can’t just say no to everything.

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@Kathy, is self-esteem the foundation for self-efficacy, or does increased self-efficacy lead to increased self-esteem? I’ve always heard that the relationship is a bit unclear, but what I was told in graduate school and the most recent research I’ve seen tend to indicate toward the idea that increased efficacy would raise self-esteem, rather than vice versa.

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What gets me is that the educators on this blog are so matter of fact about hitting someone else’s child. It’s wrong folks! Call your lawmakers. Make them phones ring off the hook.

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I disagree. I think teachers need MORE TRAINING in identifying learning disorders that may be contributing to misbehavior. And they need to know when to bring support staff in to do proper assessments and implement good positive behavior plans. It is your job under IDEA to identify those kids, right? So that’s in response to your statement that you need more options for ‘discipline’. What you need is identify kids who have the problems and HELP them.

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my apologies for the above typos! Gosh I just re-read my post and found some errors….oh well.

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Two licks is not going to kill anybody, and it might just deter other students from the same behavior. Kids know that teachers can’t touch them, so they have free reign to do as they choose. In-House Suspension is exactly what they want – a day out of class. If they can’t be paddled, then perhaps cleaning toilets, mopping floors, and wiping lunch tables is an alternative.

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Correction: OCGA 20-2-736 regarding involving parents in the creation and updating codes of conduct, sorry for any confusion……..

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@competitive, I have no doubt that many of the behavior problems we see are due to undiagnosed academic problems, but you’d be amazed what we have to go through to get them to even consider testing a student for learning problems…much less actually do the testing!

Leigh, our system doesn’t allow paddling or cleaning up around the school or writing assignments to be used as punishment.

Kathy, keep in mind that if the law says parents must be involved, the schools can’t keep them out, if the parents are interested and want to be involved. It’s also possible that in the communities that allow corporal punishment, parents are involved and think corporal punishment is just fine – “it worked when we were in school, didn’t it?” I take it that when you did your AYP study, you didn’t take SES into account?

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gamom, I didn’t say they couldn’t help their behavior. It’s well known that some children who are struggling academically choose to misbehave so their their peers will think they are failing because they are “cutting up” rather than think they are failing because they are “stupid.”

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Only two licks…poor kid!

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Kathy, my point was that some parents support corporal punishment in the schools, and in places where corporal punishment is still used, it is quite likely that the majority of the parents DO support it — otherwise there would be quite a bit of pressure on the school boards to change the policy.

By the way, that’s the same law that says teachers have the right and the power to remove disruptive students from the classroom — but in practice, most of the time we really don’t.

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I beleive in earlier interventions to identify children with learning disorders and other medical/health related issues. Children usually act out when needs are not being met. Therefore, those needs have to be met. Now I understand school systems cannot be the be-all and end – all, but frankly the kids should not be scapegoats either. Meet the individual needs of the kids, you likely will see improved behavior and implement pbis from the top on down. That means administrators have to buy into it too.

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On one side, I tend to want to say yes, paddling is horrible because, well, it seems everyone does lately – and the reasons seem nice enough at first…
but I also recall when they took paddling away from my school growing up. I only remember one person ever being paddled – and him just once. The school was a pleasant place, I don’t recall fights – there was a line students just would not cross. It went away and there were some classes you might as well have put a zoo keeper in. Fist fights, students sent home injured, classes that had no instruction time for weeks. The first impulse is to say paddling is bad… but even the guy who was paddled didn’t say it hurt – it just hit his ego. It was controlled, done by administrators, and parents were notified at the start of the year (just as they are now notified about every other punishment, but few bother to read that). On the flip side… if they get rid of that they do need something else – ISS, OSS, and detention are just games to many students. Some will even ask for it to get out of class – I’ve seen teachers told by students that they’ll “make you pay if you make me stay in class, so you might as well send me out now”. As far as parent punishment? Many refuse contact with the school, list wrong phone numbers and are furious if you do somehow manage to contact them. It’s nuts out there now.

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All of you educaors who say this is acceptable are basing your opinion on only anecdotal subjective information. The educators need to understand there is not one peer reviewed study that says it works at all. Leave the anecdotes aside and out of the picture. I am beginning to believe that this problem will never get fixed based on the comments by educators. All well-respected, peer reviewed studies indicate the children being struck at school go on to develop serious, serious issues. Including more aggression, depression, and a host of other issues. But I guess no one cares about that.

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