“Ratted out” or not, Cherokee gun story had a good outcome.
I was going to strongly urge a rewording of the way the Cherokee County school spokesman explained how officials at Dean Rusk Middle School learned today that a 12-year-old-boy brought a gun and ammo to the Canton school. But the quote in the story was changed in the course of the day.
In the original posting of the story earlier today, the spokesman Mike McGowan was quoted as saying:
“He told a buddy who ratted him out.”
A reader sent me a note about the quote minutes after it appeared: ”Ratted? To quote my favorite AJC writer, Judas Priest!!! What the hell’s wrong with those people?”
In later stories, the “ratted” reference is gone, which I attributed to the spokesman recovering his sanity. We should never refer to kids who report classmates with guns as anything but heroes.
After I posted this originally Tuesday night, Cherokee spokesman Mike McGowan posted a response, which I am reproducing here. I didn’t understand what Mike was saying so I sent him an e-mail asking him if he, indeed, used the word “ratted.” He said he may have used “ratted,” but he didn’t recall using “buddy.” McGowan said the important thing was that no one was hurt.
Anyway, in revising this blog to include Mike’s response, I deleted all the comments you folks made by mistake. (I thought delete would give me a clean screen; I did not know it would erase all your comments. I am still learning this blogging tool after three months.) So, if you posted, please repost, especially the mom from Dean Rusk who made some great points.
Here is McGowan’s response to this blog item:
Maureen:
It is disappointing for me to read that you are questioning my sanity. I typically appreciate your candor and sometimes even your blog, and I have never utilized the “out of context” excuse. I find it hard to believe that I referred to the “reporting” student as the other’s buddy. I knew all day long that the reporting student was a female. The reporter in question is very professional. Let’s hope she doesn’t become a blogger.
Additionally, all the other print and EVEN television media have reported that I praised the student for informing administration of the events of today.
I didn’t recover anything. Your reporter offered to change the quote in the story. I informed her that a student told a teacher who informed an administrator. If you or anyone else cares to discuss, my cell number is 678.859.0656.
Your “alarmed” reader insulted everything but my physicality in his e-mail to me. I am sure that is next!
Mike McGowan
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38 comments Add your comment
Mike McGowan
November 18th, 2009
1:13 am
Maureen:
Thanks again for the re-post. It’s my opinion that one should never refer to the fact or infer that another is insane without at least having a conversation with them; but, as you know, bloggers can post anything they want without repercussion. I would challenge anyone interested to log onto either http://www.cherokeetribune.com; http://www.wsbtv.com; http://www.11alive.com; http://www.myfoxatlanta.com or http://www.cbsatlanta.com and read and/or watch those accounts. All reported that we (as a School District) were proud of the student (who happens to be female) who reported the possession of the firearm to her teacher, who then informed administration. If my first sentence in my first post lacks clarity, please give me a call. I would also like to see the posts again, especially the one from the parent that understands what actually went on today.
Thanks,
Mike McGowan
Mike McGowan
November 18th, 2009
1:18 am
Maureen:
If my first sentence in the above needs clarity, please give me a call. I have watched and read coverage of today’s incident on all four local television broadcasts and in our legal organ, and all reported that we were proud of the student (female) who informed her teacher, who informed administration, that a classmate had a gun. Sorry that my reaction to your questioning my sanity caused you confusion!
Thanks,
Mike McGowan
Sarge
November 18th, 2009
2:26 am
What ever happened to the days when students who did stupid things got their fannys warmed up by way of the infamous paddle. Oh, I keep forgetting…the #1 purpose of public education is to produce kids with high self-esteem (artificial though it may be).
Lee
November 18th, 2009
5:24 am
Maureen, you might want to rethink posting someone’s cell phone number on a public blog….
What needs to be “recovered” is the collective common sense regarding firearms in America. For years, the politically correct have demonized weapons to the point that you cannot even have an honest dialogue about them. Indeed, today, if a student even draws a picture of a gun, they are subject to disciplinary action.
The end result of all this is that schools cannot (or will not) implement an effective public safety discourse about firearms. The National Rifle Association has a very good firearms safety course (Eddie Eagle) that is tailored for a young audience. It also has the nation’s premier NRA Certified safety instructors who would love to donate their time to teach our young students about gun safety.
But it will never happen. The moment someone mentions the NRA is coming to the schools, the politically correct go into a conniption fit.
If you want to make a difference, report on that instead of a poor choice of words uttered by Mr. McGowan.
Ernest
November 18th, 2009
6:34 am
I have to agree with Lee about posting a phone number in a public blog, even if it was offered. Email address perhaps, but never a phone number. IMO, that is similar to the quote attributed to Mr. McGowan. Judas Priest!!!!
philosopher
November 18th, 2009
6:45 am
Maureen: my child is a student at Dean Rusk and on the same team as the perpetrator (although she did not know the child). My child met me very calmly at the car yesterday afternoon, and repeated what was said to her about the incident. The term “ratted out” was used as in middle-school “speak” to assure the children that like the kid who was brave enough to alert an adult yesterday, that this would NOT be “ratting out” a peer. AND that not only would it NOT be “ratting out’ a peer, it would be the right thing to do and might prevent serious harm and danger to their friends, instead. I was met with a letter from the principal, explaining the incident, how it was handled and that it was completely under control. My daughter and I discussed the incident matter-of-factly and talked about what situation or words would prompt her to contact an adult. We used the term “ratting out” several times in our discussion…appropriately, as I feel the administration did, also.
This is an excellent, high-achieving school and the administrative staff and teachers are very supportive of parents, children and safety. I am a proudly over-protective parent and I was pleased with the handling of this incident.
Maureen Downey
November 18th, 2009
7:13 am
Lee. The posting from Mike, including the phone number, was posted by Mike directly to the blog. I deleted the blog by accident as I was responding to reflect his comments. He asked me to repost his comment, which he had also sent me as an e-mail. Because I had no way to post his comment again as a posting, I just put it in the blog itself. (This all happened at midnight so the whole thing was probably not well thought at by me.)
Maureen
Sarah
November 18th, 2009
9:08 am
I think Nancy Grace has kidnapped Maureen and is now running the blog. Tell the world that he is guilty before you even find out the facts. This retraction helps but a lot of damage is already done.
Maureen Downey
November 18th, 2009
9:24 am
Sarah, I am not following you. Who did I say was guilty?
Maureen
concerned parent
November 18th, 2009
9:29 am
“What ever happened to the days when students who did stupid things got their fannys warmed up by way of the infamous paddle.” Well, some of us found alternative methods of discipline that didn’t require teaching our kids to be violent. I can speak of this because I have raised 3 well-behaved, loving children who never saw the principal’s office…and I never raised a hand to hit them. It can be done. It should be done. Having been beat regularly as a child was never a legitimate reason for me to do the same to my kids. I will NEVER understand why this is the first response from so many adults…is it because it’s easy? Or requires little time or thought? Or because it allows the adult to let out frustration on the kid? Because the message when you hit someone smaller than you is…you shouldn’t repeat this behavior because I am bigger than you and I can hurt you (not that you shouldn’t do it because it is wrong). The other message, the worst one, sent loud and clear is-”if someone doesn’t do what you want, or makes you mad… hurt them. And it doesn’t take much of a jump in a kid’s mind to realize that if the person who wronged you is bigger than you…it might require the use of a weapon.
DeKalb Conservative
November 18th, 2009
9:32 am
@ Sarah
What facts are in question? Looks like people ran with the information that had at the time and had the boldness to go on the record when things changed. I call that integrity.
Also that’s a low blow to compare Maureen to Nancy Grace. Nancy Grace has made a entire media career out of waiting for kids to get abducted and/or murdered and profiling their family story for weeks on end until another kid gets abducted and/or murdered. This blog talks about education issues.
Sarah
November 18th, 2009
9:52 am
You conviently deleted the first column that you wrote about this. You said that someone told you that he ratted out a buddy and you printed that. Did you get a second source? I don’t know because you deleted the first column. And yes, I know that this is an education blog, duh,and I think Nancy Grace is the worst example of a newsperson.
Maureen Downey
November 18th, 2009
10:16 am
Sarah, Mike is not disputing the initial quote about “ratting” out the gun carrier. With all the reporters he talked to yesterday, he just told me in a phone call that he probably did use the word with the AJC, but did not mean to disparage the reporting student.
This began because I was confused by what Mike’s initial posting last night to Get Schooled meant so I sent him this e-mail around 11:36 p.m.:
Then, Mike responded immediately with:
That’s the whole story. Mike and I are not sniping at each other. Neither of us was upset. He just called me and we just had a great conversation.
And I will go on record: Mike McGowan is sane and I still don’t like the verb “ratted.”
Maureen
Sarah
November 18th, 2009
10:25 am
Thank you for clarification.
Philosopher
November 18th, 2009
10:28 am
Ratting out, tattling, finking, telling on, selling out…whatever the term of the day, it is important that the kids know and discuss the conditions that made ysterday’s hero advise a teacher of what she heard, an OK thing to do. And if using the term”ratted out”, which I hate, also, helps my kid know I understand and relate to those pressures…well, so be it. It’s the dialogue that counts.
Maureen Downey
November 18th, 2009
10:40 am
Philosopher, That is the main point. In stories like this one that don’t end so happily, it is unsettling to read later that other kids knew about the weapon but did not want to turn in a pal or be seen as a snitch or tattler. I think that attitude has to be countered somehow.
Maureen
Philosopher
November 18th, 2009
10:57 am
Maureen: agreed…and that is why I felt it important that folks know the content and intent of the responses provided by the administrators yesterday…as understood by the students. They met my expectations fully.
jeffbfrom73
November 18th, 2009
12:11 pm
im just glad the young female student “dropped a dime” on the perp
PJM
November 18th, 2009
4:41 pm
“dropping a dime” will get you nowhere these days … it’s at least a quarter!
majii
November 18th, 2009
5:50 pm
There have been quite a few incidents like this one in GA schools recently. There have been 2 cases in Bibb County this year, and a case in Laurens County last week. I think more schools need to implement programs for conflict resolution. It is my belief that when a student gets to the point where he/she believes he/she has to bring a gun to protect/defend him/herself, something needs to be done. Many school counselors are unavailable to talk with students about their problems because they spend so much time on keeping student records up-to-date, working on student schedules, or attending meetings, so there is a real need for a place where students can have their concerns heard and addressed in constructive ways. Thank God that neither this incident nor the others I mentioned led to actual incidents of violence.
Sarge
November 18th, 2009
7:40 pm
Concerned parent, nothing personal or malicious…you represent the growing/almost prevalent mindset that kids who demonstrate an absence of mental maturity and social responsibility can, nonetheless, engage in a meaningful and productive dialog concerning their behavior. In short, adults, like you, are ensuring that future generations will be soft, both mentally and psychologically (there are already too many soft butterballs in that age group, but that’s another sad story, isn’t it, Concerned?). First of all, let’s separate what you refer to as violence from a means (crude as it may be) of getting 100% of the kid’s attention. I would imagine your idea of violence would include scowling disapproval toward the kid who decided to tote the weapon to school. Frowney Faces cast in the direction of the wayward youth would certainly have a negative impact on the kid’s self esteem and therefore be considered violence. People like you, Concerned, view life in terms of black and white…anything short of a daily stroking and convincing the kid that he/she is nothing short of #1 is to be considered violence. If your angel ever decides to go to college, join a frat, engage in contact sports, or (HEAVENS!) go into the military, violence, by your definition, will be a daily endeavor. For that matter, your angel had better not even contemplate ever getting a job, for the violence will surely clash with his/her/your sensibilities. And if you are going to equate the violence which Man inflicts upon Man on an almost daily basis with a simple pop on the derriere intended to ensure 100% of the kid’s attention…GO IN PEACE, CONCERNED.
Concerned parent
November 18th, 2009
8:30 pm
Sarge- people like you are the reason so many people resolve adult issues by going to war! Differences can be settled, lessons can be taught and kids can be raised to be morally and emotionally strong without causing either emotional or physical harm. Two of my three children are adults, having completed college and one grad school. Both have full-time, well-paying professions and are healthy, strong, hard-working, contributing members of society and never needed to hurt anyone else to prove their worth. They did indeed play sports and their friends will get a good laugh over these assumptions about them. As for your other insulting (and yes, quite malicious) assumptions, I am a very tough parent. But discipline has never required hitting them, and I assure you, I get their attention quite well without smacking them. I am so sorry for whatever has made you such a jaded, angry person, but there are other ways to raise kids. Perhaps it makes you feel better about how you were raised, or how you raised your kids to put forward such an attack, but sorry…ain’t true.
Now can we get back to the subject of the blog? I can assure you that not one of my children ever took a weapon to school!
Parent who spanks
November 19th, 2009
7:25 am
To concerned Parent. I spank my children. The fact is..its not easy and its not a fast simple way of disciplining. I hate it when I have to spank my children. It has nothing to do with…I’m bigger and if you don’t do what I want I will hurt you. And everything to do with…”your actions were so serious that the discipline action required is not time out or no friends for the day, but a spanking.” My children know..that if a spanking is coming for their actions, then their actions were extremely serious and are never to be repeated at any time.My children are 8 and 2. The 8 year old is at the top of her class, is in AIM, at a 5th grade reading level and a 4 grade math class. She also has never ended up in the Principal’s office, she has also never done the following: Physically hurt in anyway another person, she also does not understand why another child would do so. If you were to ask her, she would tell you very clearly what the difference is between a spanking, and being hit, and she understands why there is difference. When used correctly, corporal punishments is effective and safe, in truth she has not needed any kind of a spanking in 3 years. Due to this..her 2 year old sister who fully looks up to her, adopts her same calm demeanor and sweet heart. Her spankings again were always very far and few between, reserved for such actions as repeatedly trying to stick things in wall sockets, or pulling herself up on the tv table, counter tops to get a cookie because mommy wasn’t getting it fast enough..running out the front door to greet daddy…while he was still driving up into the drive way. My point is..there are situations where a spanking is needed and should be used… I can honestly tell you…that a simple time out, or taking away of objects nor groundation is the way to go with a child who brings a gun to school..I can tell you that as a parent..there are no nice sweet little ways to discipline the “little darling” after an action like that. There would only be one simple answer for me…a paddle. Now..just to diminish any other stereotypes…I was never ever spanked as a child..not once..but I can tell you? that as I recall back..there are plenty of times I should have received one. I chuckle when I hear an adult complain about the fact that they were spanked as a child..because those are usually the adults that I find very whiney, spoiled and judgemental.
DontTreadOnMe
November 19th, 2009
7:31 am
Well said Sarge.
BTW, zero tolerance policies in schools are idiotic.
DontTreadOnMe
November 19th, 2009
7:38 am
concerned parent,
Where do you stand on bringing nail clippers, empty shell casings or aspirins to school?
Erin F
November 19th, 2009
8:28 am
What I find very interesting is that the truth has yet to come out… but I hope that will be changing very soon. The truth is … is that this student who informed the school of the situation was actually held at gunpoint and robbed for her bubble gum while in math class wih a teacher present. He opened his jacket… pointed the gun at her and insisted on her giving him her bubblegum… said ” give it to me or I will shoot you and kill you” so she threw it at him… then he proceeded to pop the gun open and drop the ammo out. He put the ammo in one pocket… and the gun in another. This poor child was robbed at gun point…. and this situation has been diminished so small to a “buddy ratting out her friend!!!!! Something is WRONG with our schools in this county when they are more concerned with their reputation and keeping this quiet than putting the school on lockdown and searching the whole school…. (lets remember most of these bullys run in pairs) and taking almost 3 hours to call the parents of this poor child who was scared out of her mind… and sending her back to class to try and act normal and not alert anyone. It is all absurd and is trying to be covered up…. my concern is this child not being protrayed as a tattle tail… she was a hero….who knows what could have gone down that day!!!! Be true to our children…. this is real… scary… and serious!
Concerned parent
November 19th, 2009
8:41 am
@Parent who spanks: I have no doubt there will always be (like many other issues) differing opinions on this subject. There will be those of us who can prove that raising a good kid without spanking them is possible (and I NEVER said anything about discipline needing to be sweet…another assumption) and those who insist on spanking their kids. That is life.
AND…the original question was not about a swift smack on the butt, either…it was about paddling a kid…an adult taking an object and beating a kid with it…
Sarge
November 19th, 2009
8:41 am
Concerned, I certainly do not wish to enter into a circular discussion, however, I believe the topic(s) we have covered ARE the blog subject. Kids who, regardless of repeated warnings, tax-supported public service advisories, etc, etc, yet cannot/do not wish to “get with the program” are strongly in need of “alternate attention-getting procedures”. Years ago, it was unheard of to see kids shuttle through the courts; through the adult corrections pipeline. Apparently, you have been blessed with offspring who, presumably at early ages, could moderate their behavior and acquire focus on long-term objectives. Unfortunately, not all kids are this fortunate. The social choice then, boils down to two separate and distinct paths: 1) let em do whatever moves em, and watch the result. Your result, it appears, is one of pride and joy in seeing success in your kids. From a social viewpoint, your offspring represent a continuation of that which will make our Country strong.
2) Same as above…let em do whatever. If their “boat appears to be heading for the rocks”, and despite your urgings to change course, the boat goes down, we have only the added social expenses associated with the wreckages of too many young lives who never received that “course correction in life”.
Have a good day, Concerned.
Concerned parent
November 19th, 2009
9:35 am
Dear Sarge: Thank you for showing me the error of my ways! How incredibly arrogant of me to think that prayers and good parenting skills raised 2 1/2 kids. I was just blessed with perfect kids who raised themselves without any problems…what WAS I thinking?! I will be sure to spank the third one if she steps out of line….that is, if she is not perfect, also. You have a good day, too.
Terry
November 19th, 2009
11:55 am
Again with the spanking argument?? People – this is 2009 for pete’s sake. If you can’t raise your child without hitting them, you’re taking the lazy way out. People spank when they are out of control most of the time. It takes brains to discipline and persistence and consistency to carry out MEANINGFUL CONSEQUENCES that do not include hitting.
Terry
November 19th, 2009
11:59 am
@concerned parent: here here!
Terry
November 19th, 2009
12:07 pm
@Sarge – kids today are just the same as they were 10, 20 years ago. You just hear about it more because of the sensationalistic 24/7 news media.
Concerned parent
November 19th, 2009
1:27 pm
I’ll tell you what really concerns me,…if Erin F.’s blog is factual, the story is very different and the seriousness of the incident much more so than what was reported. And if it is not true, it is extremely irresponsible, at best. Maureen, can you enlighten us on this?
MS
November 19th, 2009
2:06 pm
To “Parent who Spanks”: Parent, your daughter sounds a lot like me when I was growing up. My father spanked me when I was growing up- not all the time, but for the “serious stuff” as you mention in your post. Let me tell you that your children are developing a fear of you- they love you and yet a part of them is afraid. What’s going to happen is that your precious, intelligent daughter will (at some point) figure out that if you don’t ever catch her doing something wrong then she can avoid being spanked. She is going to become one of the world’s greatest liars; meanwhile, you will believe your spanking turned her into the greatest child ever. I was an honor student, gifted and a multi-talented athlete. I regret to inform you that your daughter will be cutting you out of her life when it really matters- some young man will step in and tell her how beautiful and intelligent she is and you will be replaced. When life changing decisions or problems arise, she will not come to you because she is afraid that you will spank her. Good luck!! Just a thought…..
MS
November 19th, 2009
2:08 pm
Oh! Forgot to mention that when your daughter’s boyfriend smacks her across the face, she’ll probably think its okay since daddy hit her and still loves her….
Terry
November 19th, 2009
2:29 pm
@MS – did you know that after Rhianna was interviewed about her domestic violence situation, the calls to domestic violence abuse hotlines were off the hook – I read in a news report most of the callers to the domestic abuse hotline were from young girls. This should give parents who spank pause I would think.
Sarge
November 20th, 2009
8:26 pm
Absolutely Terry! We are bombarded with news coverage to the point where the Pope can’t sneeze without the world knowing about it. First of all, please allow me to stress that, paraphrasing an earlier comment, “life ain’t a black and white proposition”…an attention-gaining “pop on the six” and far more intense engagements paralleling hand-to-hand combat are not to be lumped into the common bag of violence. Secondly…you are again correct…kids are indeed the same as yesteryear, wanting to test the limits, “push the envelop” of acceptable behavior. However, a strange social phenomenon has given rise hitherto unknown in many years past. In years past, the limits were posted in terms of curfews, driving the “old man’s” car within geographic boundries, and other limitations. “Terrible” acts of defiance which merited, at worse, a parent-accompanied visit to authority were the norm for kids who “just didn’t get it”. NOW, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, WE SEE KIDS, BARELY INTO THEIR TEENS, GOING THROUGH “BIG PEOPLES’ COURTS”. Is it at all possible that there just might be a corelation between the “violence”, known as parental prerogative of yesteryear, and the levels of juvenile delinquency of that era compared to the “let em do as they wish and pray for em” methodologies of current day kid supervision. Would the religous right, who would poo poo “violence” in directing kids away from life’s potholes, express pride in the fact that the penal system is booming, fueled by kids/young adults who never crossed paths with an adult who cared enough (or was afraid) to pop em on the six.
Pissed off parent of the girl sitting next to him
November 22nd, 2009
8:51 am
Am i the only parent concerned the school didnt inform us tues. that the police were going to interview the kids in that class wed. My daughter was terrified (as was I)when the police told her she was sitting next to him in 2nd period while he had the gun and bullets on him and i would of liked to have been there for support for her when she learned that information. she called and told me all the info.by her cell phone HOURS before the school called to inform me.I HAD A RIGHT TO KNOW BEFORE MY DAUGHTER, AS WELL AS TO HAVE BEEN PRESENT. why wasnt i informed tues when it happened? they knew then she would be interviewed. All we got was the “generic” letter sent home to all that didnt even state the grade the boy was in. The girl that told on the boy hasnt been back to school since and is moving.( thats what the teachers have told my daughter) Sounds to me like he threatened her. Not that it matters, but for the idiot wondering, the boy was spanish