Teachers get furloughs; lottery staff gets bonuses
Mega bonuses for lottery officials; teachers get furloughs. Is that fair?
The AJC reported that despite cutbacks to education, the staff at the Georgia Lottery received substantial bonuses. The lottery funds pre-k and the HOPE Scholarship.
The bonuses come amid drastic cost-cutting elsewhere in state government; the state has slashed spending by about $3 billion in a little more than a year, including three-day furloughs for teachers and state employees.
And the HOPE coffers are running low, due to increased college tuition and rising numbers of scholarship recipients. More Georgia students are opting to stay in-state and attend public colleges, increasing the demands on HOPE.
By next fall, HOPE may have to start reducing the book stipend that students receive. That stipend, and money to pay for student fees, could eventually be eliminated.
According to reporter James Salzer:
More than 200,000 teachers and state employees are being furloughed and seeing smaller paychecks this year, but the Georgia Lottery did well enough to hand out $2.75 million in bonuses to its staffers.
That’s up more than 8 percent from fiscal 2008, according to figures the Lottery Corp. provided to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution .
Lottery CEO Margaret DeFrancisco received a $204,034 bonus, up from $150,000 in 2008. That’s on top of a $286,000 salary, which was unchanged from 2008.
Lottery officials say the bonuses, which they call incentive payments, are commonly used in private industry to help retain top staffers. Georgia’s lottery, which is among the most successful in the nation, set another sales record in fiscal 2009, which ended June 30.
In explaining the bonuses, the lottery board chairman used the usual refrain: “These are people who could probably go anywhere they want to in this country,” said James F. Braswell. “If they don’t hit the (financial) targets, they don’t get the bonuses.”
I understand that you have to pay top people in government top dollars to keep them, but why doesn’t that thinking apply across the board? Why aren’t top teachers paid top dollar? Can’t they also go anywhere in the country? As the story states:
“There seems to be a huge disconnect,” said Joseph Jarrell, a world history teacher at McIntosh High School in Fayette County. “As teachers across the state, employees across the state, are either having to take furloughs or cutbacks, it (giving bonuses) makes no sense. It’s nothing but unconscionable.”
Rep. Kathy Ashe (D-Atlanta), a member of the House Higher Education Committee, doesn’t think the Lottery Corp. should be doling out big bonuses when lottery-funded programs — such as the HOPE scholarship — could really use the money.
She called the argument that big bonuses are needed to keep top employees from leaving “the kind of language we heard about the banking industry” when it was being bailed out by taxpayers.
“It just doesn’t make sense,” she said.
Are the cuts unconscionable, as McIntosh teacher Jarrell says. Are they senseless, as state Rep. Ashe says?
Or, are they business as usual in Georgia?
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68 comments Add your comment
benman
November 16th, 2009
5:49 am
This is how it works in Georgia. If it makes no sense at all…and someone makes money off of it….then full steam ahead. No thought about how the people of Georgia feel about it. Afterwards, you always say this is standard practice in the industry and we do it to attract and retain the best people we can. There…it’s a done deal.
ScienceTeacher671
November 16th, 2009
6:18 am
“Are the cuts unconscionable, as McIntosh teacher Jarrell says. Are they senseless, as state Rep. Ashe says? Or, are they business as usual in Georgia?”
You act as if “unconscionable” and “senseless” are mutually exclusive with “business as usual in Georgia.”
The answer is “D, all of the above.”
start thinking
November 16th, 2009
6:25 am
The argument that top people need bonuses because they can “go anywhere” doesn’t wash. I have a hard time believing that in this economy, there are lots of top jobs sitting empty, just waiting for Georgia lottery officials to apply.
waiting moderation
November 16th, 2009
6:59 am
This is par for the course in Georgia. Purdue wants to say no to paying for books and yes for bonus’s, got to make sure all his cousin’s and such who work for the lotto have a good christmas. Because they are in God’s will and we are not. Thanks, Sonny.
Teachers get furloughs; lottery staff gets bonuses :Casino and Betting Online
November 16th, 2009
7:06 am
[...] Continued here: Teachers get furloughs; lottery staff gets bonuses [...]
catlady
November 16th, 2009
7:15 am
There should be NO bonuses of any kind until the lottery puts the full 35 percent into education, and we should hold our lawmakers accountable since they granted the exclusive lottery francise to this company and set the rules, yet have never enforced them!
It would be great if we could get a boycott of the Ga Lottery going to force the corporation to do as their charter specifies. I never play, so it would not have any effect on me, but if the people of this state would flex their muscles…. Oh, wait, this is Georgia, the sheep state.
Teacher&Mom
November 16th, 2009
7:22 am
Isn’t it interesting that when teachers complained about being furloughed prior to the start of school, the general consensus was “Get over it and be happy you’ve got a job in this economy!” Perhaps that message should be heard by the lottery commission. If they are so skilled at what they do, I’m sure another state or business is just waiting for them to apply
Robert M
November 16th, 2009
7:24 am
Here we go again, bring on all the ignorant comments from people who don’t understand this issue.
1. The Lottery Corp is a PRIVATE business, receives NO state funds and employees are NOT state employees. This issue is no different than the state telling Georgia Power it can’t pay bonuses to executives when the state’s role is a regulatory one.
2. Lottery funds do NOT pay for K-12 teacher salaries. Salaries are paid from state and local funds. Two separate issues. Lottery pays for Pre-k slots and higher ed scholarship, fees and books
3. The amount the Lottery Corp provides the state is written into law. I believe it is around 35%. Therefore, EVERYTHING beyond that is fair game for the PRIVATE business to do as they please. How about an article about how much the Lottery provides from year to year. Did their contribution to the state increase this year as it did in years past?
4. Politicians are chicken-sh*t when it comes to HOPE reform. They have known the expenditure and revenue lines were going to cross for YEARS. But no one wants to do anything about it except blame each other.
And no, I don’t work for the lottery corp. I am a state employee who appreciates their contributions to improving education in Georgia
myself
November 16th, 2009
7:25 am
I have always been under the impression that the lottery employees where state employees. Should they not be treated the same? All income to the lottery should go to education (as it advertises). Are they guilty of false advertisment? Maybe we need a list of lottery top people and their connection to our state leader(Sonny).
Betty
November 16th, 2009
7:43 am
Ditto, catlady. The 35% should be distributed to education BEFORE bonuses. Period.
If lottery officials choose to go elsewhere, let them. In this economy they’ll not find an abundance of higher-paying jobs available.
Oh get it right
November 16th, 2009
7:54 am
The lottery was funded for schools. If the money does not go to schools then there should be no lotters period. There are a lot of B students out there who did not qualify for hope because their B was not high enough. If there is so much money left over to give bonuses like that, then the money should go where it was intended. Those employees earn a very nice salary. They do not need a bonus that totals more then their yearly earnings. I say stop the bonus or stop the lottery. Its that simple.
DB
November 16th, 2009
7:56 am
This is a non-issue — when the lottery was created, the language specified that “There is a body corporate and politic which shall be deemed to be an instrumentality of the state and not a state agency, and a public corporation. Venue for the corporation shall be in Fulton County.” The Board of Directors is appointed by the Governor and confirmed by the Senate.
The Georgia Lottery is a private company, and as with any of us private individuals, it can do whatever it wants with the money it earns. They are not state employees. The management of the Georgia Lottery does a superb job, as evidenced by the popularity of the lottery (and, yes, they have benefited from the economic downturn as some people turn to the lottery to in hopes of winning.) They took in $3.6 BILLION in 2008, of which $872 million went to the educational programs provided by LAW. By law, 45% goes towards winnings payouts. Another 35% goes toward HOPE Scholarships, the Georgia Pre-K program, technology grants to schools, and for grants to teachers furthering their education. That leaves 20% used for salaries for over 250 people, lottery supplies, administration expenses, etc.
It is NOT the Gerogia Lottery’s fault that education expenses in Gerogia colleges have been rising at a ridiculous rate. Across the South, public college costs are, overall, 74% higher than they were 10 years ago. Hello? The colleges rachet the costs up, correctly figuring that no one will really notice in the first year, because of HOPE. If a student loses HOPE — oh, well.
Don’t presume to punish the Lottery because it did it’s job well — unlike, I may add, a great portion of public education in Georgia, which is hamstrung by teachers who are reduced to “teaching to the test” of the Great God of Standardized Tests, and parents who do not hold their children responsible for their own education.
teacher mate
November 16th, 2009
7:58 am
At this point the main issues are, how much are we paying for the privilege of letting them run the lottery compared to other states and is it fair compensation for the management of the lottery. They get to spend “their portion of the revenues” however they see fit.
DB
November 16th, 2009
8:00 am
Honestly, folks — all this information is easily available on-line. Those of you who are say, “I thought . . . ” or “it seems like . . .” are completely ignoring well-documented guidelines that have been in place for the last 11 years. It does not say that “all income to the lottery goes to education.” There is a specified portion that goes to education. And the lottery makes those payments to the State EVERY QUARTER, on the 15th. It doesn’t sit on the money all year.
Grrrr . . . THINK before you speak, folks!
KMM
November 16th, 2009
8:02 am
@ Robert M.
You asked for an article, well this is from the ajc article: “State law requires the lottery to return “as nearly as practical” 35 percent of ticket sale proceeds to education programs, but the percentage has been dropping. Last fiscal year, the lottery gave just under 24 percent to education.”
Why are they giving themselves bigger and bigger bonuses when only 24% of the money is going to education?!
Winkasdad29
November 16th, 2009
8:02 am
Robert M. makes a real good point. People need to understand that the lottery is being run like a private business, and the employees are not state employees. If a business is profitable, then the bonuses should be paid. I wonder if the amount of bonus money being paid out will make a difference in achieving the 35%?
Ernest
November 16th, 2009
8:07 am
Great comments by Robert M @ 7:24 am. This is an issue that brings emotion however the facts are don’t support the questions raised. Maureen, is this an attempt of creating ‘compensation envy’?
Maureen Downey
November 16th, 2009
8:07 am
Roberf M. As the story notes, “The lottery receives no state funding and was set up by the Legislature to operate like a business, with a president who reports to a board appointed by the governor. Its staffers are not considered state employees.”
Don’t you think oversight ultimately falls to the state since the governor controls the board and the very existance of a lottery is a state function? And couldn’t the state law be changed on that 35 percent if the Legislature so chose?
Maureen
DB
November 16th, 2009
8:08 am
In South Carolina, 62% is paid out to winners, and 25.8% goes to education. Other states are similar. Georgia is definitely not out of line — in fact, it’s on the generous end of contributions to education.
part1776
November 16th, 2009
8:15 am
Bottom line is they are not hitting their primary metric (or financial target) as KMM pointed out. Not even close. How is that bonus worthy? What are the other metrics the Board is using to award bonuses? Cannot find it on the GA Lottery website. I’ll bet the bar is set pretty low for those folks to achieve their bonuses.
Since the Corporation was created by GA law, the state legislature is the only one that can modify the law. Why haven’t they done so?
Maureen Downey
November 16th, 2009
8:20 am
Ernest, The issue to me is the defense of high salaries. And it is always the same defense, not matter if it is a college or a corporation: “We have to pay this to get good people.” That’s what the Regents always tell us about college president and vice president salaries.
I don’t know. Why don’t we try offering $250,000 instead of a half million and see who applies. What’s interesting to me is how many companies continue to pay extraordinary salaries even in a downturn and even when the company lost money. (I know that is not the case with the lottery, although I question whether their perky sales reflect effective work by the staff or a desperate Georgia economy where more people are buying lottery tickets just out of wishful thinking.)
There is a new harsher economic reality for most of us today. Aren’t there many, many “good” people available now and isn’t it at all possible to get them for less?
I read a good piece a while back on the perpetuation of high CEO salaries, that once a corporate board approves them – and most boards are made up of high salary executives who often approve the salaries they would like to get or do get — they just keep approving them at higher and higher levels with no real evaluation of the market and whether the salary is justified.
Maureen
Private school guy
November 16th, 2009
8:20 am
The lottery is the only game in town. If you are running it or working for it you can’t lose. It also does not CREATE any money it just moves money around that is already in circulation.
newtoga
November 16th, 2009
8:20 am
If any of the colleges that are raising tuition and fees have football coaches making the salary of several of the professors there then a clause should be made that the hope scholarship covers all of the student’s tuition and shouldn’t require them to pay more money.
Schools should not be wasting money on sports when teachers are being cut. In other states some college football coaches are making millions, how is that not effecting tuition? I’m sure there are crazy fans who disagree.
Winkasdad29
November 16th, 2009
8:24 am
I think this issue needs to be addressed soon. What happens you will be able to play Mega Millions and Powerball in Georgia? What happens when the national super lottery starts? Will more money go to the state’s schools? Hmmm.
Robert M
November 16th, 2009
8:26 am
@Maureen…oversight? Yes. And I know for fact that the Governor appointed board provides general direction and discretion for the business operation. It may be an assumption but I would think the board has to approve some of this. And again, this issue comes up every year providing nothing more than some talking points for a few cowardly legislators.
And yes, the law can be changed. It has been proposed several times. But is that the answer? Force the lottery to give over more money because of Georgia’s inability to control costs? And at what point does the state begin bankrupting the lottery corp? It is a business and turning a profit is part of its core mission.
How about you write a blog looking at all the contributions the lottery has provided since its inception. How much does it contribute annually? How much since its inception? Has it ever provided less than the previous year (like the current state budget)?
Robert M
November 16th, 2009
8:31 am
@newtoga You are incorrect. In most athletic departments the coach receives a base salary that is state funded. Dept of Audits reports that Mark Richt was paid $328k in 2008. The remainder of his salary comes from the independently funding athletic/boosters program. In the case of UGA, the athletic department brings in millions each year (I think they are top 15 in the nation in revenue). Most of this is separate from the general operating budget of the University.
Ernest
November 16th, 2009
8:35 am
Maureen, thanks for your reply however this is a larger issue than looking at the compensation for the Lottery Board employees versus teachers. This issue in not unique to GA. I think politicians are hopeful that citizens will not research the issue and will play to ‘compensation card’ to stir up emotions.
You are correct with respect to salaries, there is a LOT of talent walking the streets now and you could probably hire some at ‘less than market’ wages. I submit that this has always been the ‘American Way’. The reason we have ‘outsourcing’ is because companies are seeking to reduce their labor costs. Not only do the CEOs and corporate leaders benefit but the shareholders do also. When you think about it, this is a circular situation as many of us probably own stock in a company and ‘expect’ a reasonable rate of return for our investment.
What is the solution? I don’t know. I don’t think that ’salary slotting’ is the answer. Then you get into a situation of ‘who decides’…
MR M
November 16th, 2009
8:35 am
If a salary over $100,000 is not enough incentive to do your job to the best of your ability, maybe you should look for work in another field. Those 3 million dollars could have been used for the teacher’s gift cards which were taken away.
oldtimer
November 16th, 2009
8:41 am
How about a column about how many hours a day a college prof teachs and their outstanding benefits…way better than any state employee!
Ms. P
November 16th, 2009
8:57 am
<<>>
Actually, it’s not that simple. Wherever I go, I first have to meet that state’s certification requirements. that might mean taking (yet) another exam (or more than one), additional coursework, etc. So, you see, it’s not something that a teacher would do lightly. Consequently, we are considered a captive audience, and expected to take all that is dished out for us.
Do the lottery employees deserve a bonus? Yes, they do. Should it come at the expense of education (which is allegedly supported by the lottery system)? No way!
high school teacher
November 16th, 2009
9:07 am
*Of course* lottery sales are up; we are in a recession and people are desperate enough to spend a dollar here and there in the hopes of striking it rich. I love how the lottery feeds off of the desperation of others – but as long as the ends justify the means, it doesn’t really matter. Kids are going to college at a greatly reduced cost, and lottery execs can keep their million dollar estates, so all is right with the world.
Clueless
November 16th, 2009
9:08 am
Wonder why the “we have to pay this to get good people” argument doesn’t apply to teachers’ salaries?
KC
November 16th, 2009
9:31 am
MR M.
There is absolutely NO relationship between teacher compensation which is set by the state and is funded by tax dollars and the funds that are distributed by the lottery to Georgia’s education system.
You want teachers to earn more money? Raise your property taxes.
Clarence
November 16th, 2009
9:35 am
A couple of things here… When we talk about “running government like a business,” well, this is what business looks like. If we don’t like it, let’s run it like the rest of government. Now, we also have one of the most successful (if not THE most) lotteries in the country. That has something to do with the people running it, right?
Now, Robert M. correctly points out the 35% rule, but that is a guideline. They’ve actually only been transferring around 25%, but most lawmakers are more interested in grandstanding about the lottery issues rather than actually fixing the problem. With tuition increasing at several times the rate of inflation (or growth in the lottery) the HOPE program is on borrowed time anyway. These bonuses are a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of the fiscal health of the program.
KC
November 16th, 2009
9:42 am
Maureen: I read your blog with interest and usually find myself in agreement with you. But I think you screwed the pooch with this topic. The argument that the bonuses are somehow out of line with teacher compensation is specious. The burden on the teachers is due to the abysmal fiscal management of the state’s education system.
Are the bonuses emotionally jarring when so many are out of work and struggling to make ends meet? Yes – but that emotional response does not a connection make. You have to remember that the funds paid out were not funded by state or federal tax dollars (unless you want to consider the lottery to be a user tax).
David Hoffman
November 16th, 2009
10:01 am
The Texas State Lottery had some similar problems years ago. They found the only way to increase sales compared to previous years was to increase the percentage of gross sales going to prizes. This resulted in the same or greater dollar amounts going to the state, but the percentage of the gross receipts was less. The Georgia Lottery’s 35% of gross receipts to education was a goal, not a mandate. The Georgia Lottery, within 5 or 6 years of starting, realized it could not meet that target. They could however send a large amount of money to the state with a different prize money percentage. Which would you rather have each year going to education, $35 out of of $100 or $50 out of of $200? The $35 is the original 35% goal and the $50 is 25% of doubled ticket sales. The Georgia Lottery chose to go for the $50, since its main goal is to generate as much revenue as possible for HOPE and Pre-K. The bonuses amount to about 0.3 % of total lottery money sent to the state. If that bonus helped generate an extra $275,000,000 in sales, then it was well worth it. We got $100 more for every $1 spent.
The other thing I would point out is that Governor Zell Miller did not want the Georgia legislature to use lottery revenues the way the Florida Legislature did. Floridians were told the lottery was going to fund extra programs for education. The Florida Legislature took the money and spent it on everything but the extra education programs. The extra education programs got funded by cutting regular education budgets. That is why Georgia very carefully wrote the lottery law to limit what programs would get lottery funds. In fact, the citizens of Georgia had to vote in a special referendum that they wanted to continue with those limits. This occurred when a group of legislators wanted to use lottery money to do favors for a bunch of rich donors. They were forced to put the issue before the voters, and the voters told them no. The K-12 funding problems in this state need to be solved independently of the Georgia Lottery and the programs it supports.
Maureen Downey
November 16th, 2009
10:02 am
Oldtimer, I have run several op-ed pieces from college professors contending that they, too, are underpaid for the work they do. There are wide swings in faculty salaries in colleges, based on the discipline and the “star” quality of the professor. One of the interesting issues to me is the outside work that academics can do; I know several professors who make more money on the side as consultants to industry than as college teachers. (The folks I know have cleared their consultancies with their colleges and are not in conflict.)
Maureen
Meme
November 16th, 2009
10:05 am
Business as usual in Georgia? Yep
Joy in Teaching
November 16th, 2009
10:35 am
While it is troubling that the lottery staff is getting bonuses during these economic times, it is downright ridiculous to contrast those bonuses with teacher furloughs as the funding is from a different source.
The real problem is how the legislature does not change requirements for the HOPE scholarship. Back when it began, high school students had to have an 85 average in order to qualify. That was quickly dropped to an 80 as students couldn’t manage it and the legislature lowered student expectations.
It would be interesting to see how many of those in the 80-84 average range actually retain the HOPE beyond the first year compared to those with an 85 and up. Has any such study been done?
MR M
November 16th, 2009
10:44 am
KC,
The point is that the money is for education purposes. I do not believe anyone is holding a gun to any lottery employee forcing them to keep their job. If they are unhappy with their measly $100,000+ salary, then let them leave. I assure you that the lottery will survive just fine. You do not see a correlation because you are blind to the facts.
jj
November 16th, 2009
10:45 am
If the above numbers are correct then we do indeed have a problem. In 2008 $3.6B was taken in, 35% of that is $1.26B, but only $872 went to education. That is a shortfall of $388M. I thought by law 35% had to go to education?
Ernest
November 16th, 2009
10:47 am
Interestingly I heard discussion about this article on one of the local sports talk this morning. The agreed this was a ‘non issue’. They brought up a point the is worth considering:
The lottery generated revenues of $3.5 billion in fiscal year 2008, up $100 million or about 3.5 percent from fiscal 2007.
Given the Lottery CEOs base salary was $286,000 and that remained unchanged over the previous year, some would say we are getting a bargain. Check out what CEOs of similar sized organizations that generate that much revenue make.
Joy also brings up a good point, if we want to ’slow down’ outlays from lottery revenues, we should ‘tweak’ the funding formula, i.e. raise the qualifying averages to keep hope. Obviously politics are in play when you consider this is a possible solution to the ‘problem’.
Maureen Downey
November 16th, 2009
10:48 am
KC, I think on the lottery bonuses most posters seem to be with you on this one.
I have to confess that what sets me off on these stories is the contention that, “This is what we have to pay to keep these people. And look – the consultants we hired told us we were right about that.”
That is frequent explanation to defend extraordinary salaries. I question whether it is true or whether the high salaries reflect more of a cultural basis than an economic one.
Most corporate boards – including the Regents – are made up of millionaires who earn extraordinary salaries themselves and enjoy wonderful job perks.Their scale is set higher than the rest of the world.
Is it necessary to pay the salaries and bonuses to keep these folks?
I don’t think we really know.
Maureen
kjdf
November 16th, 2009
11:37 am
David Hoffman – great insight and explaination. too bad most here don’t / won’t understand
bob
November 16th, 2009
11:50 am
robert, thanks for the on point explanation
Robert M
November 16th, 2009
7:24 am
Here we go again, bring on all the ignorant comments from people who don’t understand this issue.
1. The Lottery Corp is a PRIVATE business, receives NO state funds and employees are NOT state employees. This issue is no different than the state telling Georgia Power it can’t pay bonuses to executives when the state’s role is a regulatory one.
2. Lottery funds do NOT pay for K-12 teacher salaries. Salaries are paid from state and local funds. Two separate issues. Lottery pays for Pre-k slots and higher ed scholarship, fees and books
3. The amount the Lottery Corp provides the state is written into law. I believe it is around 35%. Therefore, EVERYTHING beyond that is fair game for the PRIVATE business to do as they please. How about an article about how much the Lottery provides from year to year. Did their contribution to the state increase this year as it did in years past?
4. Politicians are chicken-sh*t when it comes to HOPE reform. They have known the expenditure and revenue lines were going to cross for YEARS. But no one wants to do anything about it except blame each other.
And no, I don’t work for the lottery corp. I am a state employee who appreciates their contributions to improving education in Georgia
oldtimer
November 16th, 2009
11:56 am
David Hoffman, Best comments all day!
V for Vendetta
November 16th, 2009
12:34 pm
Maureen,
It’s a private enterprise. I don’t know if that really IS what they have to pay to keep those people, but it’s what they think they have to pay to keep those people. Teachers get no such consideration because of a number of factors–primarily the difficulty of evaluating success in education and the fact that education is government-run. Take away just ONE of those factors, and teacher salaries would fluctuate with the demands of the market.
Maureen Downey
November 16th, 2009
12:43 pm
V, Private companies have to fight for customers. They don’t have a state-sanctioned and protected monopoly that outlaws competition. If someone wants to buy a lottery ticket, the marketplace offers them one choice: the state of Georgia.
Since the lottery began, lottery employees have collected bonuses, but the amounts are now 10 to 15 times higher, a rate of growth that ought to alarm the General Assembly. I understand that the lottery agency is unique in both structure and purpose. As I have noted in the past, that excuse was also used to justify the lottery’s generous leave policies. When former lottery CEO Rebecca Paul and three of her vice presidents left for jobs in Tennessee, they took unused sick leave and vacation that totaled almost $300,000. Had Paul and her three lieutenants been treated like other state employees, they would have collected together about $80,000. (That perk has since been limited.)
Gov. Zell Miller and the Legislature set up the Georgia Lottery in 1993 to operate like a business, with a CEO who reports to a board. But the law is clear that the lottery is a public entity, subject to open government rules and required to report its finances to legislators and budget writers. The governor appoints the seven-member governing board, and lottery employees are eligible for the state’s 401(k) retirement plan.
Voice of Reason #1
November 16th, 2009
12:45 pm
HECK! Instead of playing–and trying to WIN–the lottery, maybe I should just apply for a job there and WORK for them!
Maureen Downey
November 16th, 2009
12:47 pm
Voice of Reason #1, I agree. Save an office for me.
Maureen