Facebook flap in Barrow raises troubling fairness issues
I was going to wait until Monday to post this column but I am putting the piece up now as I think this story deserves a healthy dose of sunshine. To grasp this entire bizarre story, please read my two earlier related posts, especially the one right below on the anonymous e-mail that set this whole tragicomedy in motion.
Ashley Payne posted 700 Facebook photos of her European vacation; she says only 10 showed her with alcohol
After her three-week trip to Europe this summer, Barrow County teacher Ashley Payne posted 700 photos to Facebook. Ten of those photos showed her in pubs and beer gardens.
Payne’s Facebook page is set to a high privacy level and is accessible only to friends to whom she has granted access. Recognizing her position as a role model, Payne says she has never allowed access to students or parents at Apalachee High School, where she taught.
Believing that only her adult friends could see her postings, Payne also felt comfortable posting a brief comment on Aug. 26 announcing that she was headed out to play “Crazy Bitch Bingo,” a popular game played weekly at a Midtown restaurant.
But by the next morning, someone had sent an anonymous e-mail to the Barrow superintendent. The e-mailer claimed to be a parent whose daughter had access to Payne’s Facebook page. The daughter had allegedly seen both the note about bingo and “unacceptable photos” of Payne “smiling with alcohol for all her online friends to view.”
“Her behavior is intolerable,” wrote the e-mailer.
Less than two hours later, Payne was sitting in the assistant principal’s office, where she was pressured to resign. According to Barrow spokeswoman Lisa Leighton, the incident demonstrates the high standard of conduct to which school employees are held.
Initially, the school system told me that it would not reveal the name of the mother who sent the e-mail to protect her privacy. But it turns out that Barrow has no idea who sent the e-mail or whether the parent or daughter even exist.
The e-mail itself reads as though it was written by another teacher rather than by a parent.
When summoned into the meeting with principal David McGee and assistant principal Dorann Mansberger, Payne acknowledged the posting of vacation photos and her use of the word “bitch.” But she pointed out that she had never allowed students or parents access to her Facebook page.
Payne is now suing to get her job back.
According to court documents filed by the district in response to the lawsuit, “Mr. McGee told Plaintiff that she would be suspended and her conduct reported to the Professional Standards Committee. Plaintiff asked if she could resign.”
At that point, however, the stories diverge. McGee says that Payne volunteered to resign. Payne says she was coerced.
“There was no mention of a warning,” Payne said. “No ‘Could you please take these things down?’ I was told, ‘We are going to have to suspend you and your only other option is to resign.’”
“At no time did I tell her she had to resign,” countered McGee in a statement released by Barrow officials. In that statement, McGee concedes that he presented Payne with some dire scenarios:
“She asked about options and I told her she always had the option of resigning. I told her that I had no idea what the Professional Standards Commission (PSC) would do. I told her I had seen suspensions, fines and loss of teaching certificates.”
If such a case had indeed been forwarded to the standards commission — an anonymous e-mail, with no proof that a child was actually involved, complaining about photos of American tourists sitting in beer gardens and the use of the word “bitch” — it should have been laughed off as groundless.
The fact that instead a school system reacted so recklessly and quickly — with no apparent skepticism whatsoever — finally helps me understand how so many people fall for those Nigerian e-mail scams.
In several conversations with the Barrow spokeswoman, I was told that the critical issue wasn’t the vacation photos or Payne’s use of an expletive. Instead, it was the “fact” that she had given a student inappropriate access to her personal Facebook account.
A “fact” for which there is no evidence whatsoever.
This is the Internet folks. The “concerned parent” could have been anybody: an old boyfriend, a jealous teacher, a nutcase. Barrow administrators didn’t know anything about the sender of the poison e-mail.
But they did know Payne.
A 2007 University of Georgia honors graduate, Payne had taught at the high school for two years. She seemed to do fine; her students posted higher End of Course Test scores than the county average. (McGee seems to agree, writing: “Ashley has completed two satisfactory years at Apalachee High School.”)
A confused Payne now wonders whether she had unknowingly crossed some line with her boss, noting that she had met with McGee a week earlier to lament that he had never observed her class. But she did not think that conversation might contribute to the loss of her job.
According to Leighton, the Barrow spokeswoman, the county had recently unearthed a policy for teachers dating back to 1938. Those antiquated rules required that unmarried female teachers live with families and never be seen outside after dark. Seen from the perspective of 70 years later, those rules seem preposterous, Leighton said.
But it doesn’t take the perspective of 70 years or even 70 seconds to recognize that the policy that entrapped Payne is ludicrous, dangerous and unfair.
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96 comments Add your comment
Ernest
November 13th, 2009
5:40 pm
Look for this to be settled out of court. She has a STRONG case and I want to believe their legal counsel will advise the district to settle this quickly and quietly.
Jeff
November 13th, 2009
8:09 pm
I’ve faced similar crap both when I was teaching and in the workplace after teaching. I no longer allow co-workers or anyone associated with work access to my personal pages, and I watch what I put out there on my public pages.
Payne should sue that system for every penny they have, and if the taxpayers complain she should point out that they should have elected better leadership to begin with. What a teacher does outside of school is NO ONE at the school’s business. PERIOD.
V for Vendetta
November 13th, 2009
9:05 pm
Maureen,
I want to applaud you. Your handling of this issue has been swift, professional, and, in my humble opinion, timely and appropriate. We are constantly inundated with threats in regards to what will happen to us if we are caught posting anything inappropriate on the most popular social networking sights. Many of the moderators of such meetings–board members, principals, administrators–flat out tell us not to have such pages or to delete them. It’s not an order, but it’s a strong suggestion. We all know what they mean.
The actions of Barrow County schools and the administration at Apalachee High School are unconscionable. They should be taken to task, and Ms Payne should receive a sizable monetary award to cover both personal and professional damages.
Thank you, Maureen, for championing this woman’s individual rights. I hope this case opens up a new level of discussion on the topic of teachers’ private lives versus their professional lives and the unconstitutionality of some counties’ “morality clauses.” Best of luck to Ms. Payne as she fights this battle. In some ways, she’s fighting for all of us.
Marc Vogel
November 13th, 2009
9:36 pm
The BOE needs to loosen up! This is almost as ridiculous as suspending a kid for having an asthma inhaler. God help me if I ever get pulled over while making a U turn in a school parking lot…I always have a loaded gun in the car LOL ! I’m serious.
RickY
November 13th, 2009
9:55 pm
One more case of a school system overreacting, not exercising common sense, and pandering to anyone who, heaven forbids, complains about anything. I would understand if this were a public Facebook or Myspace site with actually inappropriate pictures. It’s not like she was smoking pot or dancing around half naked. Having a drink in a bar is not illegal if you are of age.
Barrow hypocrisy
November 13th, 2009
9:59 pm
Where is Barrow county anyway? Is it one of those places where time stood still? It sure sounds like it.
Warrior and Mom
November 13th, 2009
10:27 pm
She is pretty, smart, and has a jealous co-worker. If she were black, she would be promoted to principal.
Scared educator
November 13th, 2009
11:36 pm
I guess teachers are not allowed to have a life. I realize some of us have done horrible things, but it is so unfair that the rest of us are under such a painful microscope. The respect for teachers is gone.
Damo
November 14th, 2009
12:04 am
Why even have a stupid Facebook page if you’re expected to be on your best behavior for the rest of your life. I like to be be able to do what I want, when I want with who i want without anyone else knowing about it. That’s why I don’t do Facebook. I like my freedom.
I Live In Barrow County!
November 14th, 2009
1:42 am
and this doesn’t suprise me a bit. This county is full of ignorant backwoods fools. And the scary thing is, those are the ones in power. You’ll never find a tighter “Good Ol’ Boy” network than you will here. Anyone who has lived here for less than 50 years is an “outsider”, and if you don’t have the blessing of 2 very influential churches, or are a member of a few elite family clans, you can forget about running for an elected office.
The mistake the Apalachee teacher made is that she accepted a job in this school system. This is the last place a college honors graduate with exceptional performance reviews during her first 2 years of teaching should ever be. Achievement is highly discouraged ’round these parts….”that don’t matter none”. What matters is: “who is your Daddy?” Or “who was your Granddaddy?” Or failing either of those litmus tests, you may be accepted if you can verbally recited verbatim the entire New Testament without taking a breath.
If ignorance is bliss, you’ll never find a happier bunch of Bubbas than you will in Barrow County…..I KNOW!
SuzyQ
November 14th, 2009
8:27 am
Who eventually replaced this teacher? Since she was confronted in August, was this a sneaky way of letting a teacher go due to budget cuts, or lower enrollment, or did some higher up’s relative (school board member or front office administrator) need a job? Nepotism is alive and well in Georgia’s school systems.
I really feel for her. Imagine going to your job and upon your arrival you are confronted by two of your bosses with this accusation. I’m sure she was scared and resigned only because she did not know what else to do.
Public school mom
November 14th, 2009
8:35 am
This was a stupid knee-jerk reaction by Barrow County. She teaches high school for goodness sake. I am pretty unflappable, but when I walk the halls of my child’s high school some of the student comments and language can make me blush. Ms. Payne, DeKalb County Schools would love to have a smart, effective teacher who is certified to teach AP courses. Please apply.
One Striking RATTLER
November 14th, 2009
8:53 am
Warrior Mom please stop posting your divisive beliefs and go back to teaching your children how to hate. Thanks!
lhhal
November 14th, 2009
9:41 am
Good for her!!!
I only feel badly for one thing – What if she DOES get her job back (and she WILL)? Then, she’ll have to work for these creeps again! They will be making her miserable for the rest of her tenure with them, picking on things such as not having her ‘essential question’ up when she addresses a kid’s random question, placing her lesson plans 2 inches too far to the left on her desk, etc – they will terrorize her for asking for her job back.
She will be better off elsewhere, but they need to be found guilty in court!
I am soooo proud of her.
I would guess that the author of the email is a stuffy, older, heavy-set female teacher at the school. I would guess it is someone who is extremely jealous of her youth, attractiveness, intelligence, energy, talent, etc….Someone who feels like she used to be like her, but no longer has it in her. Or, someone who never did – someone who was always jealous of girls such as Ashley.
Ashley has her whole life ahead of her. I don’t want her to spend it miserably with these losers – both male (who try to dictate her every life move, and lie about their sources) and female (who ‘turn her in’ for being both intelligent and attractive).
But I DO want to see her sue, and I DO want to see her win. And then…I want to watch her take off and get a job elsewhere!
And why can’t they trace the source of the email?? Have they not checked the IP Address? It can be traced pretty well. Odds are it was sent FROM THE SCHOOL!! Have they not checked the IP Address to see if it came from one of the school computers? It should be checked, and if it is from a public, tax-funded computer – I demand that they use the surveillance system (unless the tape just happens to be lost, or malfunctioning that very day) to find out which teacher sent the email from a “concerned parent.”
.
November 14th, 2009
9:44 am
I wish she had known this blow was coming ahead of time, so that she could have taken in a tape recorder.
Teacher&mom
November 14th, 2009
1:56 pm
Maureen,
Look to see who replaced Ms. Payne. Was it a coaches wife or someone in the system whose child had just graduated from college and needed a job? This happens all the time to non-tenured teachers. I suspect that she was lead to believe that writing a letter of resignation was in her best interest. Here’s the talk given to non-tenured teachers….”We’re letting you go, we don’t have to give you a reason BUT we will let you write a letter of resignation. That way, you won’t have a non-renewal and/or firing in your employment history. Resign and you can work somewhere else. Try and fight the non-renewal/firing and you are basically closing the door on ever working in GA again.” Of course, most young teachers are frightened and don’t want to ruin their chances of another job in a different school district. They write the letter of resignation and move on to another system.
In my humble opinion, Bartow County deserves to be taken to the woodshed on this one. Even the PSC will not accept anonymous complaints. My 18 years in education in GA tells me that there is more to this story and that Ms. Payne is probably a victim of the good-ole’ boy system. She either stepped on the toes of the wrong person or the “right” person needed her job.
She has a hard fight ahead of her. I wish her luck.
Gee Willakers Wally
November 14th, 2009
2:03 pm
This Barrow County sounds as bad as Clayton County!
Dumb HICKS!
Rik
November 14th, 2009
2:28 pm
I think that this is indicative of the ignorance that permeates. While many millions have embraced social networking site, many millions more have not. I believe a huge number of those that have not possess an uniformed bias against such sites. They do not understand how it works and the safeguards that are available to protect privacy. Had they known this, they would realize that this could not have come from a student of parent directly. What’s worse is that this was caused by someone this teacher felt was a “friend”. This teacher deserves better. I only hope she will move to my kids’ district and be one of their teachers since she appears to be good at teaching – which is what you want in a teacher.
DJ Sniper
November 14th, 2009
2:32 pm
I love living in Atlanta, but I swear, this state can be soooooo backwards when it comes to certain things. You got people with absolutely retarded views on public transportation, you can’t vote on Sunday liquor sales due to non-progressive thinking politicians, and now this nonsense. It’s painfully obvious that common sense is not required to become a school administrator. This teacher should never have been given any grief over these pictures, and everybody involved in forcing her to resign should have some discipline handed out to them.
Warrior and Mom
November 14th, 2009
3:01 pm
I just wonder if there was a black woman as a replacement teacher…affirmitive action at its finest.
Mr. Thomas Anthony "The Taxman Cometh" Jones, SR (Waf-SS, ret.)
November 14th, 2009
3:06 pm
Mrs. Ashley payne has a constitutional reight to her privacy and these moton up in Barrow County should shut up. It is terrible that we let a group of people who are hypocrites ruin people lives> Please sue Mrs. Ashley payne and destroy the Barrow County Board of education. Also their are several individuals who I believe have federal and tax liens on them who are opposed to Mrs. Ashley Payne. These people should most definitely keep quiet and never ever criticize Mrs. Ashley Payne again!!!! And they need to file their Income Taxes, the hypocrites!!!!!
Mr. Thomas Anthony "The Taxman Cometh" Jones, SR (Waf-SS, ret.)
November 14th, 2009
3:09 pm
These morons up in Barropw County who are trying to destroy Mrs. Ashley payne disgust. They are hypocrites and phonies. I find it unreal that people who are liars are trying to destroy Mrs. Ashley Payne, yet their personal actions and failure to file their Income taxes speak for themselves. Again Mrs. Ashley Payne sue the barrow County Board of Education and destroy them totally!!!!!
catlady
November 14th, 2009
3:09 pm
I hope she will amend her lawsuit to request SIGNIFICANT damages, both from the system and from the individuals, since they were acting OUTSIDE their scope of employment. Also, I hope the GBI will be called in to investigate the source of the email and any charges applied to the sender if they are anything other than the parent of a student in her class and in addition they can show that they have been friended on Facebook. There are penalties that could and should be applied, including loss of income.
It is time we quit putting up with this (stuff).
What?
November 14th, 2009
3:11 pm
@Warrior and Mom,
I really feel sorry for your kids, toots.
QueenBea
November 14th, 2009
3:18 pm
It’s ironic that teachers are expected to be Jesus while nothing is ever expected of parents who do drugs in front of kids, abuse their kids and neglect them at times…Not every parent is this way but it amazes me the life they expect teachers to lead….If you cannot be in a picture drinking beer..can you drink beer….what if a child came into applebees with a parent while a teacher is drinking a beer? Then what…teachers are not different than workers at walmart…this is stupid on so many levels
LOL@Barrow County
November 14th, 2009
3:27 pm
I really can’t believe she was fired over going to a restaurant in midtown to play bitch bingo OR having her picture taken drinking alcohol. I bet that school superintendent bought Sarah Palin’s book and listens to Rush Limbaugh.
Echo
November 14th, 2009
3:37 pm
What is sort of funny is that anyone actually thinks that teachers are treated fairly. Teachers, especially in Georgia, have been dumped on for years. The only thing unusual about this case is that she is suing. Had teachers been suing and putting the districts on notice in the past, this sort of thing may not have ever happened. I hope she wins. I also hope this is the first of many lawsuits on behalf of teachers in this state because this state really needs an enema!
Mad at Warrior and Mom
November 14th, 2009
3:48 pm
Sorry, But Warrior and Mom, What race has to do with this? Your comment was WHACK!!!!!!!!!!!
jackie
November 14th, 2009
3:49 pm
Maureen: do you have enough info and money from ajc to search out the source of this e-mail? I know whenever i receive a new e-mail. i simply add them to my contact list and I automatically have their e-mail address.
Erin
November 14th, 2009
3:58 pm
I really feel for Ashley Payne … this whole situation is just ludicrous.
Whoever wrote that email (and I’m with everyone else … it HAD to be a fellow teacher with an ax to grind, unless it was started by something else and came from an administrator looking for a way to get rid of someone he didn’t like, or to get rid of her and place someone else there in a big, bad case of nepotism) clearly has it in for her. If she’s been as careful as she said she is with her Facebook page, then there’s no way a student could have seen it, much less supposedly “quoted” from it to her mom.
This whole thing just gets curioser and curiouser.
downsouth
November 14th, 2009
4:21 pm
they may not be able to easily find the origin of the email if it ws sent via an anonymizer program, but then again, it could probably be traced if there was sufficient cause. this woman is getting hung out to dry be some bs. hopefully the courts can resolve this and get her fair compensation for this bs.
even with high security setting utilized, there are ways for people to view “private” pages w/o the user knowing about it. i have a friend who signed up for facebook as normal, yet can mysteriously view anybody she wants private pages. the system of security is not foolproof, but regardless, she’s not doing anything illegal, and someone is trying to get her in trouble. it’s too bad the school admin didn’t ask a few more questions before jumping to its conclusion.
we will hear plenty about this case. once again, georgia makes the national news…
babs
November 14th, 2009
4:29 pm
what a ridiculous principal and school system- I hope she sues the school and gets enough money so she never has to work again
Gr8Teacher
November 14th, 2009
4:30 pm
The entire situation is just as ridiculous as WarriorMom comments. What are you talking about? Did you read the article? I think you are commenting on the wrong blog. I am a teacher and find it very disturbing that we can not enjoy our personal time. We spend more time with students than their own parents and we can’t have an alcoholic beverage when we want? Pitiful because last time I checked alcohol isn’t illegal and neither is it for teachers to drink it when they are off the job so where’s your case Barrow County? I hope Barrow County public schools becomes A. Payne’s Public Schools!
jackie
November 14th, 2009
4:34 pm
The bikini shots of Miss California are much more revealing than this teacher. they are all over the internet.
NY State of Mind
November 14th, 2009
4:35 pm
1st @ Warrior and Mom….. Shame on you…. This way of thinking is one of the main reasons our world is so screwed up….
2) This has to be an old boyfriend or a lonely co-worker (Carl the Janitor) who did not get have the pleasure of going to europe and lives a drama filled lonely life in the tiny hamlet of Borrow County….
3) Doesn’t Kim Basinger or her family owns Braselton which is in Borrow?
NY State of Mind
November 14th, 2009
4:43 pm
Help me with this: Say I am a teacher and I am out with my family having dinner at Outback on Sunday and happen to be drinking a Fosters and one of my students just so happen to be dining with his/her parents after church. Does that student’s parent have the right to call my principal and say I was a bad role model cause I was drinking a beer on Sunday in plain view of one of my students. Could I be fired for this even though I am on my own time?
clyde
November 14th, 2009
4:48 pm
As I mentioned yesterday,nothing different happened here than what has happened in thousands of other workplaces.There is power,prestige, and money involved in positions and someone else wanted it and Ms.Payne was in that someone’s way.This person saw their chance and took it.
It is not unusual for a boss to reward people like this either.Some bosses run their ship exactly this way.I will say this also;either the boss faked the letter or you can bet he knows who wrote it.
Ms. Downey needs to find out who replaced this teacher.It may be innocent or there may be a lot of intrique involved.How about it Maureen?Care to take the plunge?
Recruit1
November 14th, 2009
4:58 pm
The world’s worst attorney would win this one….she stands to win as much as she wants on this one – and deserves it..school administrators are the least prepared and knowledgeable of human resources employment law.
Classie
November 14th, 2009
5:00 pm
Teachers have a life outside of school. Seems like they are held to the same standards as priests. Teachers should be allowed to drink and use expletives. If a parent and a child saw her drinking at a local restaurant and saying “bitch” would the teacher had been fired? No. Kids see worse than that in their own homes and on tv.
John
November 14th, 2009
5:06 pm
Act smart, act appropriately, and you won’t have a problem. This teacher chose to behave otherwise and to advertise it to the world.
Dawg Fan 74
November 14th, 2009
5:53 pm
She quit. She was not fired. End of story.
ms obvious
November 14th, 2009
6:01 pm
and this my friends is why we can’t keep decent teachers in Georgia schools. I have tons of friends who are currently teachers who have posted things, and written status messages that are worse. Teachers have values to uphold, but they are people too. She did nothing wrong and does not deserve to lose her job over it. It wouldn’t bother me in the least if she was my daughters kindergarten teacher. I do believe that she was coerced into resigning as this is actually a pretty popular way for school systems to get rid of teachers they do not like. I hope she wins her lawsuit! Good luck!
Maureen Downey
November 14th, 2009
6:05 pm
At this point, Payne says she is suing for her job, her back pay through August and attorney fees.
Maureen
frazman
November 14th, 2009
6:19 pm
Standard Teachers Union fare, defend the undefendable, defend the slugs dragging down kids, defend the political left rats teaching obamza songs, while turning their backs on schools prayer, intellegent teachers, and most of all, the children in school.
frazman
November 14th, 2009
6:20 pm
…dawg fan, when you didn’t finish grade school, don’t you feel a little silly being the ’super fan’ of a colleage team?
frazman
November 14th, 2009
6:24 pm
What, rattler, and hood rat momma, why don’t you jump in when the tide is going the other way? Don’t it pay?
Crazy Boss
November 14th, 2009
6:32 pm
So let me get this straight. Even from the school’s perspective: We have a teacher who is producing more educated students with measurable results and she gets forced in to a suspension or resigning because of some private content on Facebook?! This is where the statement “those who can do, those who can’t teach” comes from. I love and respect teachers who teach for the love of educating. But those who would otherwise consider a teaching career are scared off by ridiculous bureaucratic situations like this one. So I ask this: Can we please focus on results and production! Even if the lady does exist and her daughter exists I’d like to tell her to take some freaking personal responsibility for the moral and responsible rearing of her child. It is not the world’s responsibility to conform to your standards of social mores it is your responsibility to have integrity and respect your fellow man. Set a good example for your daughter and quit ruining good peoples lives because you want to play god while at the same time abdicating your own responsibilities. You cannot protect your daughter from beer and bitches. But you can teach her how to responsibly and graciously. Now get off your self righteous ass and go have the sex talk.
South Cobb Diva
November 14th, 2009
6:37 pm
My question is… why so late with the lawsuit? This all happened in late August, and it’s now mid-November. Nevertheless, I feel this situation warrants serious consideration by the court system. It sounds like the school system went way overboard with this teacher by confronting her about some innocuous photos and text taken out of context. Why not a reprimand? Why not give her due process within the school’s grievance guidelines? As Maureen and everyone has said, a lot of things are not adding up. Someone obviously had it out for this teacher. I hope she gets what she deserves.
OhMyLanta!
November 14th, 2009
7:04 pm
OMG! this article just scares the living heck outta me! i’m tempted to delete my FB page right now! i’m a teacher & i was at a Halloween party a few weeks ago dressed as a preggo pink curler wearing smoking & drinking white trash Jerry Springer guest and i told EVERYone no pics and no FB posting of any pics! btw, it was a REAL funny costume! wonder if i could be fired now? sheesh! kidding i’m not a teacher i’m a plumber. really.
DB
November 14th, 2009
9:29 pm
I hope Ms. Payne sues the hell out of those idiots in Barrow County. Any reasonably competent high school computer geek could trace back the IP address — heck, *I* could do it. If the administrators in Barrow County are too stupid to figure it out, they are too stupid to be running a school system.
I hope she takes ‘em to court, and I hope she wins BIG.
Teacher Fired for Facebook Photos Showing Alcohol (Good Thing I Never Pursued a Career in Education) | The Laughing Stork with Candy Kirby | Parenting, Family, Pop Culture & Gravity-Defying Baby Poop
November 14th, 2009
9:43 pm
[...] forced to resign over pictures on Facebook showing her — GASP! — drinking alcohol is now suing the school board. The 24-year-old says that the board violated state labor laws when she was never told that she [...]
randi dalton
November 15th, 2009
12:49 am
I worked in this cluster and had the exact experience. Good reports all year and suddenly, no contract. It is common place. As stated above, another teacher’s spouse wanted my job, and got it! It happens everywhere. In other counties, kids can make up ANYTHING and tell their parents and the teacher is disposed of without the chance to even face her accusers!
Warrior and Mom
November 15th, 2009
7:34 am
The opposite happened to a teacher in Henry County. He was a black teacher, taught 3 years in the classroom. Got arrested and convicted of domestic violence. He was then promoted to assistant princpal for the next 3 years, to which he was convicted of DUI and illegal drugs. He was again promoted to principle. All in less than six years…because the office was not “dark enough”. That is the problem with alot of affirmative action, based on race and not on qualifications, not even a background check. Both arrests were with a city and within Henry County.
I am a proud graduate of Clayton County, and also have a bachlor’s degree is accounting. You are welcome for fighting for your freedom of speech. You are tolerant as long as it in line with the far left or Obama. When you took prayer out of schools, guns were brought in.
V for Vendetta
November 15th, 2009
8:51 am
Warrior and Mom,
You are correct about Affirmative Action. I have seen similar things myself. It happens more often than many people realize.
However, prayer (or religion) has no place in schools. Schools are for learning–not for fairy tales and imaginary friends.
South Georgia Teacher
November 15th, 2009
10:38 am
I have a similar story. During the budget cuts of this previous year our school system decided to let around 39, I think, teachers go. When it came time to tell everyone I was pulled to the front office to meet with our school’s director.
Before I begin let me state some facts about my year thus far.
1. It was March or April when this occurred. So far I had not had a single classroom observation. Not one.
2. I created the team-based disciplinary plan that our group of teacher’s used. I was the one that assigned class isolations and corporal punishment.
3. In our one and only benchmark test that was given about a month before the CRCT, my kids had the highest score out of SIX teams in the 6th grade.
4. I am a fully certified teacher.
5. I had not received any warnings of any sort. All I ever received were compliments from parents, students, and other teachers.
6. I am male, and taught science.
So, I was pulled into the director’s office. I, too, was told that it would be a good idea for me to resign. I was told that I neglected classroom discipline, that my management styles were weak, and that in short I “needed to grow up”. Remember, this was coming from an administration that had not stepped foot in my classroom all year long, and it was directed at a teacher that had created and held fast with his cluster’s discipline plan.
I didn’t know what to do. They wanted an answer by the end of the day, and once I left I had to get back to my room to teach for the rest of the day, so deep thought and discussion with a lawyer or any knowledgeable person was out of the question.
I ended up having the director destroy my letter of intent to resign. There was no way I wanted this to look like it was what I wanted. The school system still refuses to issue a reason of separation, or whatever you would call it.
Lost what little faith I had in the public school system that day.
EducationCEO
November 15th, 2009
12:43 pm
@SouthCobbDiva She probably had a hard time finding a lawyer with ba&&s big enough to take on a district. You all have to realize that Georgia does not have a teachers’ union, hence this type of tomfoolery is even making the newspaper/news. There are things done in GA schools that would not fly in states where there is a strong and competent union in place. At least the majority of the people on here are now seeing the garbage that festers inside school buildings.
EducationCEO
November 15th, 2009
12:52 pm
Warrior and Mom,
While I understand that everyone makes occassional errors in posting, please do not spout your anti-Affirmative Action rhetoric if your post is filled with 4th grade-level words incorrectly spelled.
A lot, is and always will be two words;
Bachelor’s degree;
Principal is a position; principle is a belief
Not all minorities who are promoted are done so because of Affirmative Action. If you know anything remotely true about History, you would know why AA was necessary, and still so in some parts of this country, e.g., Georgia. If you want to discuss discrimination, we can go into the fact that you can count the number of minority GA superintendents on one hand; how about the fact that Af. Americans account for more than 50% of the students in Special Education programs when they account for less than 20% of students in Gifted Programs and minority enrollment in GA’s schools is approximately 40%. No, we will not go into that because that is not what the post was about. Stick to the subject.
Dean Poirier
November 15th, 2009
1:22 pm
The school board’s actions were heavy handed and outrageous. This is another case of Zero Tolerance Gone Wild.
Having said that, this case doesn’t surprise me at all. Local authorities don’t seem to think there are any limits to their authority. This applies whether the authorities in question are Black, White, or Sky Blue Pink.
So far at least, the US is governed by the Constitution, not the Old Testament, although the American Taliban seems intent on instituting their own version of sharia law. They are probably looking forward to the day Ms. Payne’s supposed transgression could be dealt with by stoning.
The fact that: “Payne’s Facebook page is set to a high privacy level and is accessible only to friends to whom she has granted access” absolutely vindicates her, but even if that were not the case, this is still a free country. At least that’s what they used to teach kids in civics class. (Do they still have civics, or has that been replaced by spreadsheet and word processing?)
My big question is: Where is her union in all of this?
irisheyes
November 15th, 2009
1:32 pm
Dean, there are no unions in GA. All we have are “educational associations” like PAGE and GAE. While I appreciate the liability coverage they provide, they also represent administrators, so there probably was no help for her from them.
This is exactly why teachers in GA are afraid to speak up about the state of education here. Cross the wrong person, and you could find yourself bullied right out of a job. I understand why she felt the need to resign. If I was a 2nd year teacher, and my admin was sitting there telling me I could lose my license if I fought termination, while if I resigned they wouldn’t turn me over to the PSC, I’d probably consider resignation too. The thought being: better to try and explain away a resignation rather than not be able to teach again ever. That’s what is so awful in this situation. They completely misrepresented what the PSC would do. Maureen, I’m curious. Have you talked to anyone at the PSC? Would they have taken any action if Barrow County had reported her?
In The Know
November 15th, 2009
5:41 pm
Dear Maureen,
Thanks for exposing this story! I KNOW first hand what a school administration can do when they have a motive for treating a certain teacher in this way. The difference between Ashley and me is that I refused to resign over some jealous coworker with an agenda. This has caused me to be in a political web between the “Powers to Be” in the County and School Click. They are not looking for truth and facts and can care less about whom they hurt in the process. Their only Goal is to win and be right to save their face to make the public think that they are really and truly looking out for the school system when in all acutuality they are participating in a catastrophic SIN against a fellow human being. They know this to be true but their drive to be right is overruled by their selfish preservation of their egotistical images. They are ego maniacs!
I truly feel for Ashley and her family. As far as my story…… Stay Tuned!!!!!!!!!!
uberVU - social comments
November 15th, 2009
7:37 pm
Social comments and analytics for this post…
This post was mentioned on Twitter by AJCGetSchooled: The harsh treatment of the Barrow teacher over her Facebook page raises troubling issues about fairness.
http://bit.ly/PBj1s…
majii
November 15th, 2009
7:45 pm
I think that I know McGee. After graduating from UGA, my first job was in Barrow County where, if I recall correctly, he was a new assistant principal at the Barrow Co. HS. He came to work there the last year that I taught there. If this is the man, I CAN believe that he told her she could either be suspended or resign. He skipped the warning, probably without thinking about it. In Barrow Co. the school system will side with the community members 99.99999% of the time. It’s rural, sort of isolated, very Christian-oriented (at least on display), and very conservative with a slight disdain for out of county persons. There is really not much to do there as Athens is the closest larger city in the area. All of this adds up to the attitude that the principal and community have adopted toward Ashley. I’d file a civil rights lawsuit along with the original lawsuit. Someone passed that information on to McGee, and that someone had an ax to grind with Ashley. Some of the women there can be scheming, petty, and vindictive, and some of them have power they wield behind the scenes. IMHO, they mistreated this young lady because they figured they could get away with it.
cricket
November 15th, 2009
10:27 pm
It wouldn’t surprise me if the unsigned “parent” email was fabricated by administration. Somebody wanted her out for some reason and they didn’t have one so they dug up something. If a REAL parent had a problem with her they would not have been shy about complaining in person. They never are any other time.
ScienceTeacher671
November 15th, 2009
10:48 pm
Click, clique, klick….it’s all the same thing, right? I mean, teachers know these things, don’t they?
Scooter
November 16th, 2009
12:59 am
Maureen–Have you found out who was hired to take her place? That should be public record. I’ll bet the person is related to someone on the Board or to someone else working there who has “power”.
Bill
November 16th, 2009
4:32 am
Please if she was drinking during the school day that would be one thing but come on. For you crazy parents most teachers drink lets be real. IQ’s in this county most be very low amongst the school leaders. Drinking is a legal thing. How stupid can you get. On other hand, most adults don’t go out of there way to have pictures of them drinking on facebook, but you shouldn’t be in trouble for it. Whats next, you go out to diner have glass wine and get fired because a student is there. These leaders are special kind of stupid. Please I don’t think pastors are held to this high a standard.
HS Teacher, Too
November 16th, 2009
8:40 am
irisheyes — about ten years ago, during my second year of teaching, I got married during the school year. Before anyone asks why I would, as a teacher, take a week off for my wedding, it was because my fiance’s work schedule — and his salary — necessarily trumped mine. Fortunately for me, I had worked elsewhere before teaching.
Why was I so lucky to have had a little work experience under my belt? Because my principal told me that to allow me to take a week off, s/he’d have to report me to the PSC and I would likely lose my certificate and I’d never again be able to teach in the State of Georgia!!
I have heard many similar stories, and this leads me to believe that administrators (a) have no real idea what the PSC will do, but (b) like to use it as a threat, particularly over young/new teachers who don’t know that the threatened consequences are unlikely.
If we want to talk about unconscionability, let’s talk about that.
As for Ms. Payne, she was doing nothing illegal! I have heard many colleagues say that they won’t drink in public for fear of this sort of thing happening to them (not necessarily with Facebook, but with parents seeing them and reporting them). For what? For doing something they are legally entitled to do.
I think it’s not untimely to reexamine the code of professional conduct and to make some modifications. We need to acknowledge that there is a tremendous difference between having a drink or being seen with a drink, and, say, showing up to work smelling of booze.
Meme
November 16th, 2009
10:02 am
Now why would you want to attack the person who took her place. This may just be an innocent bystander.
Micro_engineer
November 16th, 2009
10:32 am
I am not a teacher, nor do I pretend to understand what teachers deal with on a daily basis.
Accepting an “anonymous” email as the basis of a confrontation for someone’s personal life is not just anti-productive, immature, but also a bit asinine.
I am truly sickened by “anonymous” emails, phone calls, or other methods for a coward to do damage to others. Personally I believe if someone is enough of a coward to hide then I/we should not respond to anonymous accusations. You have a right to face your accuser-or at least in “civilized” societies.
Far worse, at what point in time did this teacher’s personal business become OUR business? It did not, and to regulate someones personal life outside of work is an affront to liberty & our personal freedom.
This does reek of jealous/envy of some kind; due to the high-school level behaviour going on, its as if someone is quite envious of a smiling, pretty, smart teacher who has her life together.
My sincerest sympathies to those teachers/employees out there who have dealt with something like this before! UNBELIEVABLE!
michelle
November 16th, 2009
12:06 pm
Liberal teacher’s unions at their best! No brains, not one of them.
Elizabeth
November 16th, 2009
1:00 pm
I agree that this situation is outrageous and unfair. That being said, perhaps now all of you who cry “no teacher tenure” will understand the difference between “tenure”, Fiar Dismissal rights, and no rights (for teachers). There is no tenure. Teachers whose administrators take the time to document poor teaching, etc., can remove a teacher after a hearing has been held. Teachers who possess the right to documentation and a hearing have “Fair Dismissal ” rights, which means only that there must be a hearing and documentation of wrong doing before a teacher can be fired. You must work in the state of Georgai
for three years and be offered a 4th contract ( whether or not you sign it) to be eligible for fair dismissal rights. Those without these rights can be fired or nonrenewed with no explanation given and the teacher has no grounds for appeal
and is not entitled to a hearing. The system is not required to give a reason for the dimissal. Situations like this one are the VERY REASON that Fair Dismissal was established for teachers. It was done to prevent anonymous accusations from other enployees, students, parents, and the community to be used to wrongly accuse teachers with no recourse for the teacher. It was established because kids and parents and sometimes other colleagues find it easy to falsely accuse teachers and get away with it. Only the teacher gets punished.
Unfortunately, Ashley has NO legal grounds on which to base a suit over her dismissal. However, I hope she files a personal damage lawsuit for slander, libel, and defamation of chracter against the school system. They deserve it.
Meme
November 16th, 2009
1:22 pm
@michelle – why is this the union’s fault? I am laughing at the term union since we don’t have one.
philosopher
November 16th, 2009
1:45 pm
This is simply another version of “lots of people say that you…” a tactic used by administrators in all fields, not just teaching. If they take a dislike to you but have no ammo, they make it up…”we’ve heard people saying’”, “Your coworkers” are complaining that you”, etc. ( vague, unsupportable but generally unfightable tactics). But this time a not so smart someone tried to use email as the weapon, unaware that it can be disproven…this should be interesting in it’s fallout. Sorry, Ashley…
Deborah Fagin
November 16th, 2009
2:35 pm
Someone please tell this educator to join MACE! GAE AND PAGE are more so for the administrators than for us. The general public would be horrified to know what goes on behind closed doors within the school systems. If you are a praying woman, pray and ask the Lord to protect you and to return to you what is yours. Remember, at the end of the day, no one can take what the Lord has intended for you!
philosopher
November 16th, 2009
2:40 pm
@South Georgia Teacher : I’m sorry you lost your job in the manner that you did…but if corporal punishment is what you consider appropriate discipline, I personally am very glad you are NOT teaching children.
Vampirella
November 16th, 2009
4:49 pm
Ashley, who is hot BTW, stated in her own words that she was resigning “for personal reasons.” She said she was returning to graduate school. Not one syllable about Facebook, booze or bingo. Now, she has found her a willing shyster who has contrived a different story. however, the burden of proof will be on Ashley, who is a bitchin’ babe BTW, to prove she was “coerced” into resigning. Lots of luck making that fly. Interesting to note that this story blatantly states that she was “pressured” to resign. Vas ya dere, Downey? What happened to that pesky adverb? As in: Brian Nichols allegedly murdered three people. I guess Nichols was entitled to more benefit of the doubt than a school principal.
Maureen Downey
November 16th, 2009
5:01 pm
Vampirella, I feel quite comfortable writing that she was pressured because of the principal’s statement – made in writing to the district’s own attorney – that, “She asked about options and I told her she always had the option of resigning. I told her that I had no idea what the Professional Standards Commission (PSC) would do. I told her I had seen suspensions, fines and loss of teaching certificates.”
I consider it pressure for a principal to tell a 24-year-old teacher that if she does not resign, she could lose her ability to ever work again as a teacher.
What would you call it? Kindly advice? Helpful information?
I don’t think that was the intent.
Maureenella.
Class 13 – New Directions « Children's Literature & Oral Language Fall 2009
November 16th, 2009
10:17 pm
[...] First, the case of the Barrow teacher who lost her job because of facebook photos [...]
future-teacher
November 17th, 2009
10:41 am
Apalachee High School needs to be more worried about married teachers having open affairs with other teachers, and teacher’s affairs with their own students than worry about Ms. Payne’s situation. I am not a teacher yet, but about to graduate and enter this scary world of teaching. In my classes we are told that we should delete any pictures that are not very professional or that could get you in any trouble. We are also warned to keep our Facebook or Myspace or Tweeter accounts private as possible. We are also taught about the Code of Ethics, and no where does it say that you can’t legally have a drink if you are a teacher. As long as you are not on school time or school campus, you are just another citizen in whatever county you live in. Even though teachers are held to a higher responsibility, they are still humans and can live as they please. As long as what they do does not interfer with their teaching ability what’s the big deal? Again, AHS has many more problems to worry about then this petty situation with Ms. Payne. I wish her the best of luck in this case and hope she comes out on top.
No wine on Facebook, no mimosas at wedding shops: Welcome to the new temperance movement | Get Schooled
November 17th, 2009
10:57 am
[...] if we are seeing a new temperance movement in Georgia between this news story out of West Point and the flap in Barrow over the teacher posting Facebook photos of herself sitting with a glass of wine and mug of beer [...]
Joanne
November 17th, 2009
11:09 am
EVERY teacher needs to be a member of a professional organization, whether GAE or PAGE, in order to have advocates should something like this happen to them. Barrow Co’s actions are unconscionable, hypocritical, and ridiculous, but nonetheless they cost this teacher her job. Will DFACS now check each student’s homelife to ensure their parents don’t have a glass of wine or say anything stronger than “heck”?
Joanne
November 17th, 2009
11:18 am
Teacher & Mom, get your facts straight. This happened in BARROW county, not Bartow.
FirstAmendment
November 17th, 2009
12:58 pm
Maureen,
You should start a campaign to get Ms. Payne a job in another school system, perhaps an Atlanta area school, so she doesn’t have to go back to Barrow. Her job references are likely ruined. She needs to be able to go on with her career in a much better environment.
No wine on Facebook, no mimosas at wedding shops: Welcome to the new temperance movement » iThinkEducation.net!
November 17th, 2009
2:32 pm
[...] if we are seeing a new temperance movement in Georgia between this news story out of West Point and the flap in Barrow over the teacher posting Facebook photos of herself sitting with a glass of wine and mug of beer [...]
When teachers are suspended, aren’t students punished? » iThinkEducation.net!
November 21st, 2009
8:42 am
[...] the empty classroom and the teacher love triangle melee – and the threat of suspension in the Barrow County Facebook case, I have several [...]
Warrior and Mom
November 24th, 2009
11:36 am
Oh, wait, never mind. I am a racist ass. I never should have said a thing. I feel sorry for my kids, too.
Apalachee Student
December 15th, 2009
10:27 am
I go to Apalachee and Ms. Payne was replaced with Mrs. Hanna the JV and assistant competitive cheer leading coach. Mrs. Hanna is a HORRIBLE teacher, I’m a 9th grader and my 4th period gym teacher (Coach Holmes) cusses all the time. (ex: someone asked how do you spell “Mitch” and he said bitch but replace the b with an m. how he didn’t get in trouble for that don’t know because Mr. McGee was in the room when he said it)
Facebook and teachers: Still a potentially dangerous combination for your career | Get Schooled
August 23rd, 2010
8:52 am
[...] student has ever been found. In fact, the district has yet to determine the source of the e-mail. You can read here why I am pretty sure another teacher wrote the incriminating e-mail that led to Payne losing her [...]
JesusFreak
August 23rd, 2010
4:27 pm
Sad situation for this teacher, hope it can all work out in her favor. In the end, it is the kids that are being deprived of an obviously good teacher. The teacher isn’t socializing in school, she was obviously doing what she was being paid to do. Maybe she will be encouraged by the number of people posting in her favor.
Parent and Teacher
August 23rd, 2010
7:37 pm
If only parents were held up to the same standards, after all, they are role models too. I worked in a small town school (until last year) where we were not allowed to buy alcohol, cigarettes or eat in a bar. We would also get a “talking to” if we were seen in public holding hands with a man, even if you were engaged to that man like I was. All of those things fell under, in their eyes, the state’s morality clause for educators. I never understood how any of those things lessened my effectiveness as an educator.
Old Hag
August 23rd, 2010
9:10 pm
This is intolerable and unacceptable. She should be stoned to death.
Shell
August 24th, 2010
9:08 am
Another good teacher gone over something completely innocuous. This is what makes good teachers throw our hands up and leave. Teachers barely make enough to survive, and have to endure this? No thank you
GA
August 24th, 2010
10:49 am
I wanna know WHO that mysterious e-mail sender more than anything about this Facebook-teacher issue..
TXMAMA
August 24th, 2010
12:02 pm
Ok so what did you learn today kids?
1. Teachers are not allowed to go on vacation and enjoy them selves like everyone else
2.Teachers are not allowed to relax and have a drink with friends
3.Teachers are not allowed to take pictures and share them with friends and family.
4.Teachers are not allowed to have a life of any kind
Teachers take care of our children everyday and give them tools to use for life, so lets take away any enjoyment they have, and make sure they dont behave like human beings because they arent human “right”? Thier teachers and they dont deserve to have fun,or relax,or take pictures of a vacation and share them with friends and family “right”?
This shouldnt even be an issue, were is the proof ? If the mystery students mom was so worried about this were is she now to back up her life destroying story?
Jarden
August 24th, 2010
1:25 pm
Good grief. Common sense dictates that you don’t put ANYTHING you don’t want everybody to see on Facebook. I don’t feel sorry for her at all. It’s called Using Your Head.
Boundaries, I has them « Three Ring Mom
August 25th, 2010
7:07 pm
[...] Teachers are getting fired for calling their students stuck up . We all know Facebook can suck the soul out of your noggin through your webcam’s evil eye, and even the strictest privacy settings can’t protect us from every crazy ex, disgruntled student, or nosy parent out there. It gets even worse when you consider that your colleagues are the ones ratting you out. [...]