Barrow teacher done in by anonymous “parent” e-mail about her Facebook page
I have spent a good part of this week working on the story about Barrow County teacher Ashley Payne. Payne resigned – under pressure, she alleges — after her principal said she was going to
This is one of Ashley Payne's Facebook photos from Europe that an anonymous e-mailer said made her an unfit role model for Barrow students.
be suspended for her Facebook postings of photos with alcohol and her use of the word “bitch.” She is now suing the system. (See earlier posting on this for more background.)
Payne posted that she was headed out to play Crazy Bitch Bingo, a popular game played weekly at Joe’s On Juniper in Atlanta.
Her photos are just standard tourist shots of Payne on vacation in Europe, sitting at pubs and beer gardens. Of 700 vacation photos, 10 had alcohol in them.
Somehow, the principal told Payne that a student had seen her Facebook page. I asked several times this week for Barrow to explain to me how it learned that a student saw the page since Payne says her buddy list does not include any parents or students. It does include fellow teachers.
Barrow officials told me a parent had brought the information to the superintendent’s attention, but the district would not release the parent’s name.
Now, I know why.
They don’t have a name. Barrow acted on an anonymous e-mail sent from a fake address. Within two hours of the Barrow superintendent reading this e-mail on the morning of Aug. 27, Payne was watching her career dissolve.
Below is the e-mail, which I think was written by another teacher who did not like Payne and wanted her gone.
There are many reasons why I believe that. First, very few people outside of teachers have the punctuation skills of this writer. Note the punctuation inside a quote. And I have never had anyone feel compelled to explain that Facebook is “a social networking site” outside of academics.
Plus, when is the last time a parent talked about alliteration in such casual fashion?
As well, most parents would say, “My child is a student in Ms. Payne’s literature class.” But this person wrote, “My daughter is a pupil in one of Ms. Payne’s literature classes.”
Why? Because as a teacher, this person knows that teachers teach multiple classes and falls into that phrasing instinctively.
Read the e-mail and let’s discuss. (By the way, I sent an e-mail to the return e-mail address on this “parent” note. It could not be delivered because it doesn’t exist.) My story on this issue runs Monday.
To: Dr. Ron Saunders; Ken Greene
Sent: Aug. 27
Subject: Disappointed and worried about my daughter’s teacher
To whom it may concern,
My daughter is a pupil in one of Ms. Payne’s literature classes and friend of hers on the social networking site “Facebook.” Tonight, my daughter says to me casually, “Mom, I’m going to hang out with my bitches.” Shell shocked, I told her not to use profane language in my house ever again.
To make matters worse, my daughter laughs in my face, trying to comfort me by saying, “Mom, it’s ok! Ms. Payne calls her friends bitches! Then she comforts me more by proving to me via “Facebook” and sure enough, it is similar to what Ms. Payne had said in her status update, except hers exclaims: “Ashley Payne is at Bitch Bingo with her bitches.”
I’m standing over my daughter as she scrolls down the page thinking to myself, yes, Ms. Payne what an excellent way to teach my daughter the concept of alliteration!
Ms. Payne also has an unacceptable picture of herself smiling with alcohol for all her online friends to view. See attached.
I am repulsed by Ms. Payne’s profane use of language and how she conducts herself as an example to my teenage daughter. Her behavior is intolerable. I have a question to the Barrow County School System. Is it too hard for our educators to lack discipline online and offline?
I have chosen to remain anonymous regarding this matter for the sake of my daughter.
Ok, teachers. You are the experts. Did a real parent write this? Keep in mind that Payne says she went home after her meeting with the principal and her Facebook was still set at the private level, and there were no students on her friends list.
New addition: After getting a copy of this anonymous e-mail this morning from Barrow along with the statement of the principal, I sent these questions to Barrow spokeswoman Lisa Leighton.
I am showing you exactly what I sent her and the response I received at 4:15 p.m Friday.
Lisa, A critical question after reviewing these documents: This e-mail alleging the original complaint is from Jane Doe. She states that she will not give her name. (”I have chosen to remain anonymous.”) She gives you all a disguised e-mail to which you can’t respond.
How do you know this is true? How do you know this is a parent and not a friend of Ashley’s seeking to get her in trouble?
Where is the evidence that this student exists and that she was, as stated in the anonymous e-mail, admitted to Payne’s Facebook page as a friend? Ashley Payne says she was called into the assistant principal’s office before 8 a.m. The system only received this anonymous complaint at 6: 19 am and threatened suspension in two hours time? That is an incredible turn-around response to an anonymous complaint.
I must note here that you told me earlier today that, “We are protecting the parent and the student and are not releasing their names.”
According to this information, you never had the names. Did you track the parent down? If so, how? Did you track down the parent prior to calling in Payne, which means you had to do so within an hour or so?
Mr. McGee states in his statement that Payne’s Facebook page was “viewed by at least one student and parent.” How was that verified? Please clarify.
If there was a follow-up e-mail where this parent came forward, I would like to see it. Feel free to redact the name, but I think it is important for the county to make clear that it has met this parent and verified this information, meaning you talked to the student and ascertained through Facebook that she did, indeed, have authorized access to Ms. Payne’s Facebook page
Thanks, Maureen
This the response from Barrow County:
Our first step in investigating any complaint is to get the other side. Ms. Payne resigned before we were allowed to investigate further. In addition to what you do have I am also attaching our official statement.
Thank you so much Maureen for gathering as much factual information as possible prior to publishing. I do admire your professionalism.
Official Statement on behalf of Barrow County Schools
November 13, 2009
On behalf of Barrow County Schools a petition has been filed in response to Ms. Payne’s lawsuit through the Superior Court of Barrow County in the state of Georgia. Due to the fact that this is both a personnel and legal matter we are unable to comment further.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Guides
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2010 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
362 comments Add your comment
mift
November 13th, 2009
3:31 pm
The problem here is that she “friended” her students. Not a smart idea. Take note teachers-Never do this!
Marie
November 13th, 2009
3:38 pm
Interesting, I thought about this one and I do agree with your conclusion that most likely, a rival teacher wrote this email. I didn’t discount the possibility that a parent with a career in journalism, teaching or law (which all would require strong writing abilities) could have wrote this, but the term “pupil” is just not how a parent would think (never heard a parent refer to their child by that term when I taught) but is how students are identified in teacher/admin lingo.
Also if the “parent” had attached photos that could only have been accessed by being on Ms. Payne’s friend list, and Ms. Payne had no students as friends but did have teachers as friends, the logical conclusion can only be that a fellow teacher was the culprit. That the email you sent was not deliverable should also raise alarm bells that this was not a legitimate complaint.
Barrow teacher done in by anonymous “parent” e-mail about her … | lost-travel.com
November 13th, 2009
3:38 pm
[...] Read the original: Barrow teacher done in by anonymous “parent” e-mail about her … [...]
Maureen Downey
November 13th, 2009
3:38 pm
There is no evidence she “friended” her student, only the anonymous allegation in this e-mail. In my interview with Payne, she says she has no students allowed on her Facebook page.
Maureen
Maureen Downey
November 13th, 2009
3:41 pm
Marie, You made a good catch on “pupil.” Outside of the newspaper where we are supposed to call students in the lower grades “pupils,” I never hear real people use that word.
Maureen
Observer of Mediocrity
November 13th, 2009
3:47 pm
Having come from the private side ti the public side of employment, I am shocked and amazed by the self-righteousness and pettiness of many of our so called educators in school systems today. Those few teachers who are really trying to make an impact are derailed by the behavior, and attitude of those who just want a paycheck.
Obviously, this was written by a peer whom did not like this particular teacher (for what ever reason) and decided to act in a subversive, and underhanded way. The old saying of “Those in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones” or “Let those without sin cast the first stone” most likely applies here.
As far as the school superintendant goes, shame for not having the fortitude to truly investigate the facts.
Besides, if this was a parent (which I truly doubt) why is it automatically the school’s fault for your child’s use of slang withih your household? Why should the school system discipline an individual outside of your home’s influence, when a child is a reflection of the parent(s) child raising effort.
Shame for what our society is slowly coming to,… “it’s always someone else’s fault, but never our own”
Shan
November 13th, 2009
4:06 pm
Payne’s situation is exactly why I will never use social networking websites such as Twitter or Facebook. Anyone with deductive reasoning skills can clear see that this email was sent by a coworker. I agree with you Maureen, there is no way a parent would write in this fashion, and even if it one did, the word “pupil” would never be used!
Lee
November 13th, 2009
4:11 pm
I agree, who in the hell knows about alliterations except a language arts teacher? Look around that department for one who has a corncob stuck up their butt and you’ve probably found the person who sent the email.
BTW, if this picture is representative, there is no way that Ms. Payne violated the moral turpitude standard.
Please, please, oh please let her lawsuit go to trial and let me be on the jury. Advice to the Barrow County School system lawyer, tell them they do not have a chance in hell of winning this case.
Stacey
November 13th, 2009
4:16 pm
Since when is a grown woman drinking wine a need for anyone to get upset?
BlackGirl
November 13th, 2009
4:17 pm
As I was reading this e-mail I couldn’t help but to laugh out loud. This “parent” has a teenaged daughter that used the “b” word and stated that it was okay because her teacher does it on her social networking site? Seriously?!
Teachers are examples to students while teaching them. Our personal lives in no way affect the students we teach. I want to say that I am shocked that the principal didn’t further investigate, but I’m not. With all of the schools I’ve taught in, there are only 2 that had highly qualified principals. The rest were just collecting a check.
Dr. Philip G. Allen
November 13th, 2009
4:19 pm
As a retired school administrator, I can almost assure you that this teacher has been done in by an underhanded coworker who has chosen to dislike her and to do her harm. The principal appears to be a gutless wonder who does not have enough courage or integrity to tell the complainant to get a life.
It is likely that the complaining teacher informed by word of mouth and has had a long standing relationship with the principal. The use of the word bitch would be highly appropriate for the coworker who engineered this injustice.
Mary
November 13th, 2009
4:23 pm
If a teacher wrote the letter, I sure hope it wasn’t an English teacher. >> “Is it too hard for our educators to lack disciple online and offline?”
Mary
November 13th, 2009
4:38 pm
I wonder if anyone tried to get the IP address from the email.
Maureen Downey
November 13th, 2009
4:40 pm
Mary, I was wondering the same thing, but it was sent in the early hours so the sender was at home. If you read the blog again, you will see that I added the response I just got from Barrow about whether they tried to track the e-mail or even verify. What they said was that they did not because Payne resigned after that first confrontation by the principal.
Maureen
jessica
November 13th, 2009
4:43 pm
Anyone can clearly see that it is from someone who teaches literature, because there are no grammatical errors, commas, semi-colons, etc. are perfect.
Bulldawg
November 13th, 2009
4:45 pm
Just wow!
More political correctness, zero tolerance run amok.
JA
November 13th, 2009
4:52 pm
I think Maureen that your focus is misguided- it is on “Who did it” instead of the “What image the County can demand that a teacher uphold.” Certainly, it’s lawful for the teacher to drink, but is it not okay for Barrow County to demand that such behavior is not posted on facebook.” Barrow County is her employer after all. AJC has restrictions on what you do. The NFL has restrictions on Twitter usage. The NBA has a dress code. Employers reserve the right to set the tone as to what is appropriate or not. They feel that facebook pictures of their employees with wine and beer, obviously illegal for minors, is not appropriate. There are so many consequences of alcohol used incorrectly and irresponsibly, and therefore, an Employer, charged with the duty to guide children, such as Barrow County, can make a call on what’s outside the lines.
Political Man
November 13th, 2009
4:57 pm
Good God, only in religious fanatical America could someone posting vacation pictures doing ordinary things be hounded out of a job. The sickness lies with the incredibly silly Barrow county school officials. This is the standard of behavior that students are supposed to emulate? I think not.
Maureen Downey
November 13th, 2009
4:59 pm
JA, I disagree. When I spoke to the Barrow spokeswoman this week, she said several times that the real issue here was the inappropriate online contact with the student, that the teacher crossed the time in allowing a student access to her Facebook.
But I have my doubts that there is a student involved here. The system acted on an e-mail it could not and did not verify. (See my new blog entry on this.)
By the way, Barrow does not have a social networking policy yet – they have one under review.
So, I am still not clear what they think Payne did wrong since I don’t believe that there was any student on her Facebook page. And all the county has is an anonymous e-mail with a fake address.
Maureen
Longtime AJC Subscriber
November 13th, 2009
4:59 pm
This is pretty flimsy journalism.
Do you really believe that only a teacher would know the word “pupil” or how to punctuate a basic sentence? Come on, AJC. Most Georgians are stupid, but not all of us. That email could’ve been written by anyone.
The bigger question is, who cares? Does this little disagreement — whether a parent or a teacher emailed a little complaint to one high school principal — really merit a news story? Let alone 1,170 words?
Next time, spend “a good part of your week” on some real news. Save this junk for Twitter.
Josephine
November 13th, 2009
4:59 pm
from above: “Payne says her buddy list does not include any parents or students. It does include fellow teachers.”
If you’re privacy settings are high enough, it is possible for certain groups to not even be able to search for you, let alone read your information.
If she wasn’t friends with her students, and had proper security settings, then they would have never been able to see her wall, status, or pictures.
ZaneSmith's teeth
November 13th, 2009
5:01 pm
Ms. Payne will now cost the school system thousands of dollars because they are fools! She has every right to sue the hell out of the principal and school system if she can prove she was forced to resign.
Have you seen what teenagers post on Facebook???? There is not a high school girl in this country that would be shocked or offended by a glass of wine or the use of the word bitch to refer to friends. Have you walked the halls of a public school in the last 10 years?
Shame on the gutless and stupid administration of this school. You demonstrated once again why Georgia is the laughing stock of the country when it comes to education. A+
Maureen Downey
November 13th, 2009
5:02 pm
Longtime, Given the fact that we have thousands of young teachers with Facebook accounts and given simple standards of fairness, I do think this is a big story. I think any teacher would be scared to death if this is the evidence with which they can be hounded out of a job.
Maureen
Mike
November 13th, 2009
5:03 pm
This is a waste of time, energy and resources. This lady is being treated just like folks in our legal system. They seem to be guilty until proven innocent. How many of you educators haven’t had drinks and engaged in behavior you normally wouldn’t do otherwise while you are on vacation or break? At least she didn’t end up at a spring break party. This must have been done by some vindictive b^$^ that has it in for her. Tell you what. Send me the email address of the person who wronged her and I’ll tell you who it is for free. I am a forensics security specialist and that is what I do.
live.love.eat.
November 13th, 2009
5:05 pm
I’m finding a hard time to find this “parent” to be a real person. For one thing this “parent” must not allow her child to watch anything above a G rating. She seems so horrified of the thought of a picture of drinking alcohol. I wonder what this “parent” does whenever a beer commercial comes on. If this “parent” was at a high school she would drop down dead hearing the exchange of profane language form some of the students. Secondly, it is not allowed for teachers to friend their students. It is prohibited. Whoever this “parent” is has some jealousy issues or a grudge.
Tony Joseph
November 13th, 2009
5:05 pm
I think it’s amazing that we’re supposed to NOT take the word of the complaining parent but we ARE supposed to take the word of Ashley Payne with a similar lack of evidence. Since Ms Payne has now taken down her Facebook page (coincidence?), you can’t prove her claim that it was private and didn’t include students. Very likely, it became public on another member’s page when she tagged somebody else’s name in one of her hundreds of pictures. If you’re going to be a language arts teach who chooses to use improper language on Facebook, not knowing how things get linked back to other people’s pages is no excuse. People get fired every day for not knowing what they are doing and most of them don’t consider suing for their job back nearly three months later. They learn from their mistake and move on.
You want another fact? How about that Payne conveniently leaves out her “bitch” comments and now only cries about the photos getting her fired every time she gets interviewed. If the accusation of making the “bitch” comments was false, Payne would be denying it, not ignoring it. Finally, if this was such a cut and dry situation, why did it take almost three months to file suit? Does Payne really think that, if she wins, they will back pay her for the time she sat around choosing to do nothing? Frankly, I hope they do grant her the hearing so that the entire board can fire her. After all, do you think they would actually want to rehire somebody who goes on such a public trashing party tour? Let the Barrow School Board give the ENTIRE story, not the just the parts Payne wants to tell, and then let the chips falls where they should have all along.
FWIW, I am the son of a retired collegiate speech professor who was very capable of using the same language in a similar e-mail when I was that age. Just because you don’t know parents that intelligent doesn’t mean they cease to exist.
Shananeeeeee Fananeeeeeeee
November 13th, 2009
5:06 pm
That school system is ridiculus obviously. OMG, a legal aged woman having a glass of wine, call the National Guard! The anonymous woman is one of those mothers trying to shield her daughter from everything. Mommy is the real Bi***. She better not let her daughter go to any co-ed birthday parties after the sixth grade where i hear now they play “special” games.Don’t let her watch MTV and most other channels. No commercials to see those E.D. commercials. Did this Mom check out the photos from the friends her daughter had? Depending on the age it could have been very racy for young girls By looking at Ms. Payne she can probably move from No-Where’s-Ville and move to the city to find herself a good man to sponge off of anyway.
IC Atlanta
November 13th, 2009
5:07 pm
crazy beeches – glad I don’t work in the public school system.
Maureen Downey
November 13th, 2009
5:10 pm
Tony, Ashley has admitted the bitch comment to me. As the e-mail said, she wrote under her status that she was going to play bitch bingo, which is the real name of a real game played at a local restaurant/bar in Midtown. (It’s quite popular.)
We were just debating here whether bitch is now even an expletive as Barrow says or slang.
I would have more faith in complaining parent if she signed her name and if she had a real e-mail.
I talk to many people off the record, but I would never trust an e-mail accusation from an address that doesn’t exist.
Maureen
JA
November 13th, 2009
5:10 pm
The real issue (which is relative) is whether it’s appropriate for a teacher, who represents the school at all times (sad but true) to post pictures of a questionable act online (I say questionable b/c the use of profanity, despite the context, along with having 2 big glasses of wine, and then posting it on facebook is a questionable act to some).
Her private choice to drink and cuss (been in the South a while!) became public and open to scrutiny when she posted it on facebook.
Shananeeeeee Fananeeeeeeee
November 13th, 2009
5:11 pm
Ms. Payne looks great and should leave No-Where’s-Ville and move to the city or just North of it to find a good man to sponge off of.
My Two Cents
November 13th, 2009
5:12 pm
I concur Ashley Payne was “done in” by a mean co-worker. The email was not sent in by a legitimate sender. How can anyone be threatened with a loss of a job without proper documentation including a name? The charge is ridiculous and she should not have resigned. However, it is never wise to post pictures or statements that could be used against you on a public forum. You necessarily don’t have to be a friend to look at the page but in actuality be a friend of a friend. How sad that a nasty person was able to get away with a terrible slander of a co-worker without being properly identified and their identity made public. Barrow County School System, your actions were wrong and without basis. Ashley Payne deserves her job back.
thera
November 13th, 2009
5:13 pm
The email is very carefully written. The author is not irate or even upset. S/he is self-righteous. The details given of the conversation with the “daughter” are literary in nature. I would look for someone who is jealous, who has a grudge, who may feel slighted by Ashley Payne, or imagines it. A rational person would not send such an email. And since when is having a glass of wine in a bar or pub unethical? Ms. Payne is 27. She spent her hard earned cash to vacation in Europe. Finally, she wasn’t calling a student a bitch. Anyone who would be offended by her language obviously hasn’t spent much time around “real” teenagers. The resolution of this will certainly be interesting in these increasingly puritanical times.
Fundad
November 13th, 2009
5:14 pm
This is rediculous. I agree with Dr. Allen that her principle should have had her back. As far as this being done in the name of religious fanatics, come on political man. There is no evidence of religion being the cause of this. ON another note, while I sincerely appreciate the job Maureen has done in aggressively getting to the bottom of this story, I can’t help but think that I wish our media had the same zeal when it comes to finding facts about the bills our Congress are attempting to perpetrate on us such as this health care/insurance.whatever “reform”.
Hymie
November 13th, 2009
5:20 pm
Why anyone would want to be a teacher is beyond me. Idiots for bosses, idiot parents, idiot students… and anyone who tries to raise a student above the level of idiot is ostracized.
Ron
November 13th, 2009
5:21 pm
Supposed parent used typical language of a teacher. The really silly part is how a student says ,out of the blue, how she is going to hang out with her ‘”bit***s etc. and how it was alright to use language since teacher did.Everything just seemed to fall in place “to conveniently” for this to be true or even believable. Sounds like something said on a 3rd rate TV. show. This teacher must have threatened principal if action was not taken against teacher..
JH
November 13th, 2009
5:23 pm
I have to agree with JA. The other point that is not being discussed today is that this teacher was just a 2 year employee working in a “right to fire” state. Payne is not tenured and can be fired for any reason – and yes a disgruntled co-worker is probably the culprit. I have worked for several large corporations and if you read the fine print, they can pretty much fire you any sort of behavior THEY deem inappropriate.
Payne should just have moved on and found another job. Now this lawsuit and the publicity surrounding it will make it difficult for her to find another job. In the end, the lawyers are will get paid and Payne will be left with nothing.
Veteran Pedagogue
November 13th, 2009
5:26 pm
The fact that the teacher had photographs on her personal networking site showing her consuming alcohol should not matter in the least. Nor should her use of teh word “bitch.” Her only mistake was to resign instead of waiting to be fired. If she offered her resignation voluntarily it will be harder to prove ceorcion, even though I am certain coercion probably took place. Just another example of teachers being held up to impossible standards in and out of the classroom. But this Georgia, where the governor thinks bass fishing is more importatant than education.
Go Payne!
November 13th, 2009
5:26 pm
Assuming that Ms. Payne had the good sense to not add her students as friends, this is clearly the work of a co-worker. She is not seen doing anything illegal, and her choice of words are her 1st amendment rights. I hope she clobbers Barrow County in her lawsuit as her career as a teacher is likely ended anywhere.
Lynn43
November 13th, 2009
5:27 pm
In my school district, we ignore communication which is not signed. If someone isn’t honest enough to include their name, they cannot be taken seriously. My Superintendent and none of us Board Members would have let this happen to one of our teachers.
Ladybug
November 13th, 2009
5:28 pm
THIS IS SOMEONE WHO WAS ON VACATION!!!!!!!!!!!! HELLO????!!!!!!!!!! IF SHE WAS DRINKING DURING SCHOOL HOURS THEN I WOULD BE WORRIED!!!!! I DO NOT PERSONALY KNOW THIS TEACHER, BUT SHE IS PROBABLY A REAL GOOD TEACHER AND THEY ARE GOING TO LOSE HER OVER A JEALIOUS CO-WORKER WHICH IS THE ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE GOTTEN RID OF, ESPECIALLY IF SHE IS UNDER HANDED ENOUGH TO DO SOMTHING LIKE THIS!!!!!! WHAT A SHAME !!!!!
Longtime AJC Subscriber
November 13th, 2009
5:29 pm
Ms. Downey,
You make a fair point: Teachers should not have to worry about losing their jobs because they post innocuous photos on Facebook. But, with all due respect, that’s not the point of your argument.
You tried to make a case that a teacher, not a parent, ratted out Ms. Payne. And the only evidence you marshaled is that the emailer used slightly formal words like “pupil” and terms like “social networking site.” Is that really enough proof? Can you really claim to “know” who sent the email based on such scant evidence?
I agree with you that most parents might phrase their emails differently. But I’m not a teacher, and neither are most readers here, and I doubt anyone is stumbling over SAT words like “innocuous” and “marshaled.” So is it really a stretch to believe that one might have — just maybe — used the word “pupil”?
jennifer
November 13th, 2009
5:29 pm
Hymie said it all.
Mark
November 13th, 2009
5:30 pm
I certainly hope that no one in the Barrow County Schools Administration office purchase alcohol where someone else may see this. I also hope that they do not ever attend a social function with only adults where they might say something that an adult might repeat within ear shot of a child. If so, I hope they are also forced to resign within hours of such an incident.
glodar
November 13th, 2009
5:30 pm
When on facebook, you can view someone elses photos without being on their friend list. All it takes is for a mutal friend to make a comment or get tagged in that picture. You can then click on that pic and be in their album. You will then be able to view all of their pics, but not have access to their home page or write on their wall
Average Joe
November 13th, 2009
5:31 pm
This type of behavior really makes me wonder what has happened to this country. And no. I am not talking about the teacher. 10 out of 700? Sounds like a pretty lame vacation to me. Refering to a game by the name it was given by the establishment where it takes place? Outlandish!
Really am glad I spent all thos years in the military defending peoples right to be idiots. Geez people, get a hobby or something!
HistoryTeacher
November 13th, 2009
5:32 pm
As a high school teacher who still has photos on their facebook page from college I find this horrifying. It’s sad and unfortunate that one of her fellow co-workers would do this to her, and it sure seems that it what has occurred. I am willing to go further in my assumption about it being a teacher, I believe that it is a literature teacher. The punctuation, the quotation around facebook and the term alliteration proves to me that this is someone who has a strong grasp on grammar and how it is to be used. I don’t know much about this school district but I sure hope she wins this course case and in the discovery phase the school system is forced to reveal this “parent.” I’m sorry Ashley and I sure hope everything works out for you.
Maureen Downey
November 13th, 2009
5:36 pm
Longtime, I think it is more than just the weird use of pupil. Ignoring the stilted language, the improbable exchange with the daughter, let me point out that Payne posted the “bitch bingo” comment Wednesday night and the e-mail was sent early Thursday morning. I have a hard time believing that seconds after Payne posted, a student somehow saw it and ran to her mom to try out her new “word.”
Further, why not sign the e-mail? Parents complain about teachers every single day and use their names.
On top of the lack of a name, why have a false e-mail?
Payne told me that she was led to Barrow for her first job because the system has some connections to the UGA language arts ed folks. Would anyone from UGA want to send a young teacher to Barrow after this?
Maureen
Catherine Pharo
November 13th, 2009
5:39 pm
I do not see an “alcohol” label on that glass. Who has any way of knowing what the lady is drinking.?
Does Georgia have a law against teachers drinking alcohol on their own time? I have a problem with people who do not identify themselves as they attempt to destroy someone else. COWARD!!!
Big Man
November 13th, 2009
5:39 pm
If the child did not already not know that she shouldn’t be using that word then the parent failed. I am inclined to believe it is fake also, but either way this is silly. I agree this topic is very relevant as the issue of “policing” social networking by employers is a fairly new thing. It is especially important for teachers as they have to watch every thing they do or don’t do as the slightest thing can cost them their career. I’m glad I changed my mind about going into education.
jackie
November 13th, 2009
5:40 pm
Now the sxhool system has the perfect cover ” We can not comment while the lawsuit moves forward, (hopefully until you forget about it sic)”
Old fart
November 13th, 2009
5:42 pm
She screwed up by resigning.
Classic case of she said it was forced, he said it was consenual. But, there is a witness. If she is far more credible on the stand than the two principals–she has a small chance of winning her job back. The burden of proof is on the plaintiff.
Mo, seems like you are on a campaign to get the school system to give the teacher her job back. Me thinks the school system is digging in their heels and will let it go to trial. Hope planitiff has lots of money if she loses—lawyer bill will be in the $25K+ range or a lot more if the school system lawyers drag this out. School system has more money than she does.
She has already made one mistake by resigning–I hope her lawyer has not overestimated their chances of winning—her second mistake will cost her a bundle.
Lawsuits are messy, time consuming and very costly. Very few folks win cases against the government. Up until now, she could have probably found a teaching job in a different system. No public system will give her the time of day after this.
Sorry to be a turd in the punch bowl here, but I have been down this road before. The old saying about you can’t fight city hall is not true. You can, but it will cost you a lot of money and you will still lose.
OF
glodar
November 13th, 2009
5:43 pm
maybe this parent or student in question is a facebook friend of another teacher, and got access that way ??
Jennifer
November 13th, 2009
5:44 pm
I feel terrible for this teacher. I bet she is really hurting knowing one of her colleagues had it out for her. I hope the nasty person who did this to her knows that it’s quite easy to trace an anonymous email address to someone’s IPS address and they will be found out. And oh, how their reputation will be ruined and they will be scorned and looked down upon as a sneaky little rat they are.
Maureen Downey
November 13th, 2009
5:45 pm
Old fart, I have to tell you that this story just surprised the heck out of me. I kept thinking that there is a lot more to it, so I was very anxious to keep looking into it so I could make sense of the world again. Then, I received the e-mail that led to the confrontation. When I did, I couldn’t believe that the system would respond so vigorously and quickly to it.
Maureen
Rajcos
November 13th, 2009
5:49 pm
I feel sorry for Ms. Payne, and hate that she will be judged due to this for the rest of her life. She has been wronged when it sounds like she made every attempt to keep her public life separate from her private life. It is sad when actions are made which negatively affect another person’s life, and regardless of whether the victim was wrong or right, they can do nothing to save themselves. This situation has grown too big for Ms. Payne to publicly survive the ridicule and for her to hope to maintain much of her life as she knew it prior to this week.
Ms. Payne, I wish you the best and always remember that our greatest successes often follow our greatest adversities.
Christopher
November 13th, 2009
5:50 pm
Did you not read the article???? The point is, she DID NOT friend any of her students.
Longtime AJC Subscriber
November 13th, 2009
5:51 pm
Thanks for your responses. Honestly.
We’ll have to agree to disagree about whether this evidence proves that a parent did not send the email — and whether that element of the story even matters.
But I really do appreciate your willingness to have a dialogue with readers. It’s a tribute to the AJC that your columnists will field comments from ordinary people like me. Have a great weekend.
Cobb parent
November 13th, 2009
5:51 pm
She has not added ANY students as friends. I am so tired of teacher not being able to have a life. A parent did not write this and I feel that Ashley should take action against the board and her school
Mrs. Whatsit
November 13th, 2009
5:53 pm
Maureen, as you know, writers can also be parents. And I don’t consider the e-mail to be especially well-written. However, I do agree that there’s something fishy about it. In what world do a mom and daughter have a conversation that sounds like that?
Chris Santos
November 13th, 2009
5:54 pm
According to the article, she did not friend any of her students or parents. Only co-workers (teachers). I would guess that one of them had a jealous streak.
Maureen Downey
November 13th, 2009
5:54 pm
Longtime, Thanks for the discourse. And enjoy your weekend, too.
Maureen
Jennifer
November 13th, 2009
5:55 pm
She did NOT friend any students or parents. This whole story is BS. And, it is absurd that a photo of an of-age woman smiling while toasting with a glass of wine is somehow inappropriate or hurting her students. Teachers are people too and this woman took great steps to keep her private life away from her students; she should not be punished for any of this. The principal acted rashly and this teacher should be reinstated with all lost wages reimbursed.
Maureen Downey
November 13th, 2009
5:58 pm
Mrs. Whatsit,
You make a good point about the conversation. My own daughter just called me after reading the blog and said it sounded like a conversation that a third grader might have with a mom, but never a teenager.
Maureen
ScienceTeacher671
November 13th, 2009
6:00 pm
” Is it too hard for our educators to lack disciple online and offline?”??????
I surely hope a teacher didn’t write that.
On the other hand, the supposed conversation between the teenager and her mother is totally unbelievable.
Political Man
November 13th, 2009
6:02 pm
Who other than a religious fanatic would think to condemn a woman in her twenties drinking wine on her vacation and showing pictures to her friends? A normal, reasonable, thinking person would not do so. Of course, most religious fanatics are more fanatic than religious. Can’t trust em. Ant they won’t own up to the social antagonisms they they perpetrate.
Kennesaw
November 13th, 2009
6:04 pm
The basic premise of the complaint proven fictitious, the teacher should be brought back. The integrity of the administration is now in question.
oldtimer
November 13th, 2009
6:05 pm
Many priciples will not “back” their teachers with a parents complaint. It is obvious that this guy or girl was more concerned about an unsighed “tip” than the justness to his employee.
Meme
November 13th, 2009
6:05 pm
She resigned before anything could be confirmed? That sounds fishy to me. And, yes, I think it was a jealous fellow teacher.
jojo the monkey
November 13th, 2009
6:06 pm
I hope Ms. Payne wins & wins BIG & not in the bingo department, but in suing and bankrupting the Barrow Co school system. Obviously, those working in the Barrow Co school systems are idiots and morons, who are overpaid, and provide nothing of value to their community. All of them should be fired.
kasey
November 13th, 2009
6:07 pm
This is complete ridiculous!! I would LOVE for the parent in question to swear under oath that she has never let the word “bitch” slip out of her mouth before. This teacher was holding a glass of wine, are we not allowed to do this as professionals on our free time? I find it completely INSANE that a teacher was pressured to resign (and I believe her when she said she was pressured!) over the word “bitch” and for holding a glass of wine. This teacher has a right to know the name of this student and parent and if she hasn’t friended any students or parents then it’s pretty safe to say another teacher is either jealous or mad at her and wanted revenge. As a parent….and a former teacher, if you have a REAL concern about your child’s well being then you need to speak up instead of hiding behind a fictious facade. The school district will try to say she resigned before the investigation began…..why did they not support her and convince her to stay until this was all sorted out? The truth is, they were afraid of this anonymous parent or teacher and I hope the young teacher in question WINS THIS LAWSUIT!!!
Justin
November 13th, 2009
6:07 pm
Hope she wins this lawsuit, assuming there aren’t other factors. Just absurd that a picture of a grown woman holding a glass of wine and even the word “bitch” is damaging to kids, even if she had friended her students. If this letter was faked, which it likely was, I’d like to see the writer get charged with something.
Maureen Downey
November 13th, 2009
6:08 pm
jojo, She is only suing for her job, her back pay and her attorney fees.
So, she would not bankrupt the system.
Maureen
hryder
November 13th, 2009
6:09 pm
I am a retired educator. If conduct is neither illegal or immoral, according to the general public’s mores, no current public school teacher should be held to any other standard. If you are incapable of understanding that your views may be vastly different than others views, you are in deep need of a psychological re-education and welcoming to the current world.
Justin
November 13th, 2009
6:11 pm
@ “Longtime AJC Subscriber” Get a clue. Seriously. You chastise the AJC for writing this story. It got 70 comments today alone. It’s compelling news. It tells a bigger story about how social media affects our lives.
m vale
November 13th, 2009
6:13 pm
So glad there is not a picture of the Last Supper on Jesus’ facebook page.
Maureen Downey
November 13th, 2009
6:15 pm
m vale, I just read your Last Supper comment out loud to my co-workers. They’re still laughing.
Maureen
JoeV
November 13th, 2009
6:15 pm
Maureen,
Bravo. Well Done. As the husband of a young, public school teacher this story terrifies me. Thank you for bringing this information to light. Despite what a few of the comments here reflect, I think you are dead on. VERY good piece.
Jennifer
November 13th, 2009
6:17 pm
…one more thing…Maureen, thank you for staying on this story so relentlessly. It’s great to see that watchdog journalism is still alive and well. Teachers are our unsung heroes and this young lady has been treated so poorly by her school’s administration. I look forward to hearing about her day in court.
bone
November 13th, 2009
6:17 pm
Teachers should just hide under their beds in their off time. When we are being compared to NBA, NFL, and other high-end mainstream media darlings, it’s obvious that the public dialogue has entered a phase of ridiculousness from which we’ll never return. Yes, I am a teacher; no, I don’t share my private life with anyone other than my close friends. Do I worry about my Facebook page? Honestly, there are so many things to be fired for on any given day – standards, lessons, grading, parent communication, duties, official paperwork, etc…. – that I don’t worry about my personal life being a cause for much ado. Thanks for stirring the pot, Maureen, but your article won’t do much good other than frustrate a group of professionals who are already pretty frustrated. Thank goodness I can still shut my classroom door and spend a little time doing the one thing that makes the job worthwhile: teaching.
catlady
November 13th, 2009
6:17 pm
Teachers can be parents, too. After saying this, I agree that this was someone in the system with an ax to grind. I hope the young woman gets a huge settlement from the sytem and that the complaining party is traced (we have forensics that can do that) and that all administrators who had any part in this stupid decision lose their jobs and are sued individually as well. Until stuff like this (invasion into personal privacy) results in severe civil penalties (and any criminal penalties possible) teachers will continue to see their personal rights under assault.
catlady
November 13th, 2009
6:19 pm
Ms. Downey–and Jesus would have probably “friended” all kinds of unacceptable people. Oh, wait, He did!
Alejandro
November 13th, 2009
6:26 pm
Well i really think human beings always made mistakes(i dont really know someone who dont make mistakes). The true is that teachers shouldnt publish their personal details because the students look for a model of person to be like. And then this kind of things happed!!
So my advice is “The teachers must be careful with regard to these things”
And finally i would like to ask everyone:
Is it a sin to drink a glass of wine?B-I i dont think so !!
thank you!
Martha
November 13th, 2009
6:27 pm
I hope she does sue and sues hard! If she is a member of PAGE or GAE, she has legal coverage for this kind of thing, right?
Teachers SHOULD have the right to have lives outside the microscope of society. However, this incident proves once again that they do not. I can easily see a young teacher being called in by a harsh admin and being read the riot act and resigning as a result of this intimidation.
I hope she has the Barrow County School System’s AND the principal’s heads on platters AND I hope her lawyers hire the right experts to track the computer from which the chicken sent the cowardly email.
Hang’em out to dry, Ms. Payne!!
Maureen Downey
November 13th, 2009
6:31 pm
Martha,
My understanding is that PAGE was not able to help her since she did submit her resignation. Her legal challenge is to prove coercion. Also, she is seeking her job back, her pay from August and her attorney fees. So, she is not asking for a big settlement.
I am not an attorney so I don’t have any concept of her chances in prevailing.
Maureen
catlady
November 13th, 2009
6:33 pm
Look at her–she’s beautiful! Someone was jealous! Find out who and display their names everywhere, including Facebook. I hope she collects a bunch for suffering. And I hope the county gets a wakeup call about the way it tries to run teachers’ lives, and the obviously poor training and judgement of its supervisors. The county taxpayers should demand that these “leaders” be fired!
Alejandro
November 13th, 2009
6:42 pm
Gosh!!! always the same thing !!!
Do you really think that teachers dont feel love,cold,hunger… just like you?
haa!! i forgot!! teacher should stay all day in their houses and dont have friends nor go to dance ….
We shouldnt look for mistakes, we must look for solutions
clyde
November 13th, 2009
6:48 pm
As Sgt.Shultz would say.”very intelesting,but stoopid”.
You play on Facebook at your own risk.This is not the first job lost because of Facebook and it won’t be the last.This case has a real nasty twist and I hope the teacher gets her job back,but I also hopes she learns to play her cards closer to her vest in the future.Personal information needs to remain personal and your co-workers are usually looking for any leg up they can find.Don’t make it so easy.
West Coast Peach
November 13th, 2009
6:49 pm
This economy is trash and folks are petty enough to hound people out of their jobs??? Really?? I’ll tell you who the real bitch is: KARMA. I agree with the private school educator. I’ve been in the field only three yrs and the kids are the easiest part of the job. It’s the pathetic, passive-aggressive, phony adults who work along side you that made the job difficult. She sure did file that lawsuit pretty fast, though. I hope this plays out fairly. I thought you couldn’t sue school districts in this state, but rather individuals?
mommydearest
November 13th, 2009
6:50 pm
Oh my goodness, will you all stop using the B word on a public site? My precious teenager might read it and learn a new word today.
Maureen Downey
November 13th, 2009
6:52 pm
West Coast Peach, I am curious as to whether there is competition among teachers in school or the sort of rancor that would lead to this possible scenario.
I would think teachers would see themselves as a band of brothers/sisters rather than competitors.
Maureen
LORIE
November 13th, 2009
6:59 pm
OK, I have read thru all of the comments/statements.
I myself believe it is a co-worker that is jealous of her or maybe was turned down by her. Whichever the case may be, the fact still remains…a teacher lost her job due to her life outside of work.
I personally believe this is wrong! That would mean that ANY teacher/government worker/preacher etc… that went to dinner with family or friend and enjoyed a glass of wine and was spotted by someone should be fired and tourmented???? That means if someone was to stump their toe AND say lovely words OR even when we jam our fingers…in public we should be fired. Or …. heres one…. IF A PARENT SAYS A BAD WORD OR DRINKS A DRINK THEY SHOULD LOOSE THEIR CHILDREN BECAUSE THEY ARE JUST A BAD INFLUENCE….IS THIS SERIOUSLY SOMETHING PPL ARE COMING TO???
I have 3 daughters … 24,21 and 16. I know they are gonna cuss regardless of how I have raised them. They know if they do something that is not allowed they have to deal with the punishment and KNOW to not”pass the buck”. Honestly, WHAT ANYONE DOES IN THEIR PRIVATE TIME IS THEIR BUSINESS….There are so many other things that go on in the school system that needs to be taken care of instead of something like this.
I am sure the TIGHTWAD, JEALOUS @SS THAT SENT THE EMAIL SURE NEEDS A GOOD STIFF DRINK OF CAPT. AND TO LET LOOSE…… ENJOY YOUR LIFE AND LIVE….. GEEEEZZZZ
Future Teacher
November 13th, 2009
7:00 pm
As someone who will graduate in May and hopefully begin teaching in August, this whole situation terrifies me. My facebook is very clean, and I consciously keep it that way. I live a reasonably appropriate lifestyle… I don’t “overindulge” on weekends, and I don’t really use profanity. I know better than to add students on facebook, and I know that as a teacher I am held to a higher standard as an example for the students.
However, I’m still a 20-something woman, with friends who are also 20-something, and I don’t feel that I should have to delete my facebook just because I am a teacher. I can be careful about what I say, but things happen. I’m going to Germany this year, and attending weddings– what if someone posts a picture of me with a beer in Berlin or with a glass of wine at a friend’s wedding? Those are innocent and appropriate, but then again so is the picture posted above. Do I have to un-friend all of my teacher friends (including my closest friends from college who will also be teaching) in case one of them sees a picture? Do I have to make my facebook so private that people can’t even write on my wall, in case one of my friends uses the “b-word?” I’m of the “facebook generation” and lots of my friends wouldn’t even know how to get in touch with me if I deleted my facebook
I know that I am choosing my profession, and I am prepared for the fact that I will be a teacher even after the school bell rings. But I am a teacher, not a nun! If Ms. Payne’s behavior is considered inappropriate, what IS appropriate?
Counselor
November 13th, 2009
7:01 pm
Maureen, to answer your question: I don’t see a lot of competetion among educators on the job. However, Ashley is a cute young woman. Perhaps the competition arose in a social situation. Could the email in question be from a scorned woman? Perhaps Ashely is more popular with the fellas than the vindictive coward who submitted the email. And a note to Ashley: Do you really want to return to such a simple, myopic, reactive employer?
Brian
November 13th, 2009
7:05 pm
The email is the key. Any email can be traced — dummy account, fake address, none of it matters. I don’t doubt that no one in the Barrow School System has the know-how, but every email has embedded code that pinpoints origin. (And no, it’s not possible to erase one specific email from a server — like one would do a tape recording Rosemary Woods style — so it WILL be traced.) This will come out in trial, if not discovery. I’m leaning toward the theory that the email story is, in itself, a fabrication.
CarpetBagger
November 13th, 2009
7:15 pm
I hope none of this occurred on Sunday!
Can you say private school?
November 13th, 2009
7:23 pm
My oldest went through twelve years of the some of the best government schools in the state. My wife and I observed lazy and gutless behavior by the two of the three school administrations and treacherous infighting by many of the teachers similar to that demonstrated in this situation. Our two youngest went to the local elementary school and then on to private schools. The differences in curriculum, expectations and professional behavior have been astounding.
If you want your kids to be subject to arbitrary and underhanded behavior, keep them in a public school. The may learn what not to be and do. If you want them to expect excellence and respect, private school is the way to go.
Counselor
November 13th, 2009
7:34 pm
To: Can you say private school:
As a public school educator, I have to agree with you for the most part. However, unless one is married to a spouse with a well-paying job, he/she cannot afford to work in a private school. But, yes, send your loved ones to reputable private schools! Also, I’d like to go off topic to make the connection between public education and the looming implications of public healthcare. We’ll all be paying for the public part. Those who want the good stuff will have to pay extra for private care.
Alch
November 13th, 2009
7:35 pm
This situation is ridiculous and I hope she wins her case. My daughter is a 2nd year speech pathologist in Clayton County and I told her to keep her private and business lives separate. The teachers at the school already have an ax to grind because she’s a contract employee, so the less they know about her personal life, the better. Women are very catty and will pretend to be friendly while looking for a way to throw you under the bus. I conduct myself in the same manner…personal and private lives are separate. You wont find a picture of my kids in my office…don’t want anyone to ask me anything, don’t want a discussion. I’m sorry the young lady had to learn this lesson the hard way!
deidre_NC
November 13th, 2009
7:36 pm
i think it is ridiculous that teachers are compared to sports figures etc…when they are at the school for any event they should act a certain way. on their own time they should be able to do what they please. i understand that the point is that she shouldnt have ‘friended’ a student, but she says she didnt-and it also seems that there really isnt a policy yet stating that. she messed up quitting. jumped the gun on that one. that may be her downfall. but-she is young, hope she learned a lesson-stick to your guns and dont surrender!!
i think it is a shame that things you post on social network sites can bite you in the butt like this. these sites are personal life-not work related. can we say big brother?