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	<title>Comments on: Shouldn&#8217;t the goal in Georgia be good schools, charter or not?</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/11/09/shouldnt-the-goal-in-georgia-be-good-schools-charter-or-not/</link>
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		<title>By: James Young</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/11/09/shouldnt-the-goal-in-georgia-be-good-schools-charter-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-17993</link>
		<dc:creator>James Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:49:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=2909#comment-17993</guid>
		<description>In your being a parent to your children, it doesn’t make you their master to be feared. You only have to be their guides as they trod along their own life’s path. At this stage of their lives, it would be helpful if you don’t give them someone who’s judgmental, but rather, a person whom they could rely on for advices and encouragement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In your being a parent to your children, it doesn’t make you their master to be feared. You only have to be their guides as they trod along their own life’s path. At this stage of their lives, it would be helpful if you don’t give them someone who’s judgmental, but rather, a person whom they could rely on for advices and encouragement.</p>
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		<title>By: Parent in Gwinnett</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/11/09/shouldnt-the-goal-in-georgia-be-good-schools-charter-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-17863</link>
		<dc:creator>Parent in Gwinnett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:06:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=2909#comment-17863</guid>
		<description>It is an eye opening experience for me every time I read these blogs. Thanks all for your comments, they have aided my perplexity and education about the public school systems and why they are deemed such failures.

We car pool my child 17 miles (one way) every day to one of the charter schools in Gwinnett funded by tax dollars, because we were concerned about what we had heard from parents who had children in the public high school nearest to where we live.  We also pay property tax, and for all of the aids our child uses including copies of handouts. We get no tax credit or anything special concession from Gwinnett County, because the school system does not provide transportation for any of the students going to this school.

This school like so many others is not perfect, however, we do not have to worry about our child&#039;s safety (this child was teased and bullied all through middle school) which is not a distraction for either the child or us.  The curriculum is HARD and WORKS the students&#039; butt off to the point of exhuastion. There is no easy &quot;A&#039;s&quot; as had become the norm for children in middle school. Only time will tell if this charter school has been successful in actually educating these children and not just teaching them to take a test.

Maybe the perpetual stagantion which cause redundancies and failures are because if you look at the tenure of many members of the various school baords, many of them have been on the boards for a very long time.  In Gwinnett County there is one lady who has served continuously for thirty-seven (37) years, her marignal rate of effectiveness becomes an increasing rate of diminished effectiveness (i.e. it is a fact of life that in any endeavor one engages in, one tends to become redundant and ineffective after a such a long period of time if there is no re-education).  Maybe we should start looking at term limits for these board members, we cannot use the same sets of people for such extended periods of time and expect different results!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is an eye opening experience for me every time I read these blogs. Thanks all for your comments, they have aided my perplexity and education about the public school systems and why they are deemed such failures.</p>
<p>We car pool my child 17 miles (one way) every day to one of the charter schools in Gwinnett funded by tax dollars, because we were concerned about what we had heard from parents who had children in the public high school nearest to where we live.  We also pay property tax, and for all of the aids our child uses including copies of handouts. We get no tax credit or anything special concession from Gwinnett County, because the school system does not provide transportation for any of the students going to this school.</p>
<p>This school like so many others is not perfect, however, we do not have to worry about our child&#8217;s safety (this child was teased and bullied all through middle school) which is not a distraction for either the child or us.  The curriculum is HARD and WORKS the students&#8217; butt off to the point of exhuastion. There is no easy &#8220;A&#8217;s&#8221; as had become the norm for children in middle school. Only time will tell if this charter school has been successful in actually educating these children and not just teaching them to take a test.</p>
<p>Maybe the perpetual stagantion which cause redundancies and failures are because if you look at the tenure of many members of the various school baords, many of them have been on the boards for a very long time.  In Gwinnett County there is one lady who has served continuously for thirty-seven (37) years, her marignal rate of effectiveness becomes an increasing rate of diminished effectiveness (i.e. it is a fact of life that in any endeavor one engages in, one tends to become redundant and ineffective after a such a long period of time if there is no re-education).  Maybe we should start looking at term limits for these board members, we cannot use the same sets of people for such extended periods of time and expect different results!</p>
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		<title>By: Veteran teacher, 2</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/11/09/shouldnt-the-goal-in-georgia-be-good-schools-charter-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-17370</link>
		<dc:creator>Veteran teacher, 2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=2909#comment-17370</guid>
		<description>Well said, HB.  We will find out that most of the outcry about the new math is about the same people that want to control everything for their benefit.  The controversy about the non-profit organizations facing paying property taxes is also about the legislature trying to manipulate a situation for the few.  How long are we going to allow this??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, HB.  We will find out that most of the outcry about the new math is about the same people that want to control everything for their benefit.  The controversy about the non-profit organizations facing paying property taxes is also about the legislature trying to manipulate a situation for the few.  How long are we going to allow this??</p>
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		<title>By: HB</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/11/09/shouldnt-the-goal-in-georgia-be-good-schools-charter-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-17353</link>
		<dc:creator>HB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:21:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=2909#comment-17353</guid>
		<description>Charter schools can be great (or not -- some do fail), but they are not a magical solution so wonderful as to deserve to have local decisions on their funding overturned. Would the state take the entire local system into consideration or just the proposed charter school? For example, if parents want a charter, but other schools in the system are recognized as excellent, would the state be able to force the local district to take funds from those excellent schools to hand over to the charter group? How well would state officials even know the local district and its needs?

Really, this reminds me of the later start-date debate. A bunch of parents got a couple of legislators to propose a state-wide start-date a few years ago after they were unable to convince their local board to continue with longer summers (largely because most parents, teachers, and admins in that district actually liked the shorter summer, early start calendar). Or the bill to mandate that multiples be placed in the same classroom at parents&#039; request that 1) didn&#039;t have any provision for parental requests to separate their kids even though it was supposedly a bill about parental choice, 2) gave the schools no right to separate siblings if being together caused classroom disruptions, and 3) had no age limit -- that&#039;s right, folks, high schools would have to have given 17-year-old twins matching schedules if parents wanted it. That bill came about because of inflexible policies by some schools on keeping multiples separated (parents were rightfully angry), but instead of building a framework to help parents and admins work together, Chip Rodgers sided with one interest group and tried to narrowly mandate policy for every classroom in the state.

The state legislature should not be in the business of regularly changing state law to benefit people who have lost their battles at the local level. The state approving charters that local boards have denied and diverting state dollars to those schools sends a very strong message of support for charter schools. It&#039;s state money, so while I could see arguments against it, the legislature deciding to make distribution of those funds a state rather than local decision is reasonable. Overruling the local board&#039;s decision and diverting local funds, though, is a very bad move that dismisses both the board and the majority of residents who elected them to make those decisions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charter schools can be great (or not &#8212; some do fail), but they are not a magical solution so wonderful as to deserve to have local decisions on their funding overturned. Would the state take the entire local system into consideration or just the proposed charter school? For example, if parents want a charter, but other schools in the system are recognized as excellent, would the state be able to force the local district to take funds from those excellent schools to hand over to the charter group? How well would state officials even know the local district and its needs?</p>
<p>Really, this reminds me of the later start-date debate. A bunch of parents got a couple of legislators to propose a state-wide start-date a few years ago after they were unable to convince their local board to continue with longer summers (largely because most parents, teachers, and admins in that district actually liked the shorter summer, early start calendar). Or the bill to mandate that multiples be placed in the same classroom at parents&#8217; request that 1) didn&#8217;t have any provision for parental requests to separate their kids even though it was supposedly a bill about parental choice, 2) gave the schools no right to separate siblings if being together caused classroom disruptions, and 3) had no age limit &#8212; that&#8217;s right, folks, high schools would have to have given 17-year-old twins matching schedules if parents wanted it. That bill came about because of inflexible policies by some schools on keeping multiples separated (parents were rightfully angry), but instead of building a framework to help parents and admins work together, Chip Rodgers sided with one interest group and tried to narrowly mandate policy for every classroom in the state.</p>
<p>The state legislature should not be in the business of regularly changing state law to benefit people who have lost their battles at the local level. The state approving charters that local boards have denied and diverting state dollars to those schools sends a very strong message of support for charter schools. It&#8217;s state money, so while I could see arguments against it, the legislature deciding to make distribution of those funds a state rather than local decision is reasonable. Overruling the local board&#8217;s decision and diverting local funds, though, is a very bad move that dismisses both the board and the majority of residents who elected them to make those decisions.</p>
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		<title>By: Batgirl</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/11/09/shouldnt-the-goal-in-georgia-be-good-schools-charter-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-17335</link>
		<dc:creator>Batgirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:59:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=2909#comment-17335</guid>
		<description>Maureen, thank you so much.  This is what I have wanted to say for some time, but have not been able to put it as eloquently as you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maureen, thank you so much.  This is what I have wanted to say for some time, but have not been able to put it as eloquently as you.</p>
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		<title>By: Marney</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/11/09/shouldnt-the-goal-in-georgia-be-good-schools-charter-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-17327</link>
		<dc:creator>Marney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=2909#comment-17327</guid>
		<description>Superintendents and school board, by their nature are about incremental change.

   Chartering---which should be viewed as a process of bottom up redesign, allows one to play with more variables in that redesign and therefore allows for the possibility of &quot;order of magnitude&quot; change.    But that change must have the &quot;permission and buy-in&quot;  because all change requires an element of risk and no child should be experimented on without some degree of parental permission.   For more and more parents, especially those that can&#039;t afford the &quot;move to a good school or put your kid in private&quot; game---charter&#039;s are the only thing different from the low expectations &quot;take what I give you and like it, cause it&#039;s all your worth&quot; message from the traditional low SES school that is their assigned prison.

And so superintendents and local BOE&#039;s usually find it more comfortable to sit with the status quo (which means they are in charge and stay in charge).  

I seem to recall a piece of legislation in the last session to make some changes to the expectations on local school board members.    It died...      And so chartering is the detour.   When the school board/ fix my local school path is closed, I&#039;ll take whatever will get my child to the destination that I see for him, not the one implicit in the status quo...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Superintendents and school board, by their nature are about incremental change.</p>
<p>   Chartering&#8212;which should be viewed as a process of bottom up redesign, allows one to play with more variables in that redesign and therefore allows for the possibility of &#8220;order of magnitude&#8221; change.    But that change must have the &#8220;permission and buy-in&#8221;  because all change requires an element of risk and no child should be experimented on without some degree of parental permission.   For more and more parents, especially those that can&#8217;t afford the &#8220;move to a good school or put your kid in private&#8221; game&#8212;charter&#8217;s are the only thing different from the low expectations &#8220;take what I give you and like it, cause it&#8217;s all your worth&#8221; message from the traditional low SES school that is their assigned prison.</p>
<p>And so superintendents and local BOE&#8217;s usually find it more comfortable to sit with the status quo (which means they are in charge and stay in charge).  </p>
<p>I seem to recall a piece of legislation in the last session to make some changes to the expectations on local school board members.    It died&#8230;      And so chartering is the detour.   When the school board/ fix my local school path is closed, I&#8217;ll take whatever will get my child to the destination that I see for him, not the one implicit in the status quo&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: SBC Charter Roundup 46 &#8211; Schools Building Communities</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/11/09/shouldnt-the-goal-in-georgia-be-good-schools-charter-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-17319</link>
		<dc:creator>SBC Charter Roundup 46 &#8211; Schools Building Communities</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=2909#comment-17319</guid>
		<description>[...] (Denver Post) Ga. — Learning Curve: Tough charter choices (Atlanta Journal Constitution) Ga. — Shouldn’t the goal in Georgia be good schools, charter or not? (Atlanta Journal Constitution) Ill. — Detroit charter school offers 1 year college (Chicago [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (Denver Post) Ga. — Learning Curve: Tough charter choices (Atlanta Journal Constitution) Ga. — Shouldn’t the goal in Georgia be good schools, charter or not? (Atlanta Journal Constitution) Ill. — Detroit charter school offers 1 year college (Chicago [...]</p>
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		<title>By: dgroy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/11/09/shouldnt-the-goal-in-georgia-be-good-schools-charter-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-17318</link>
		<dc:creator>dgroy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=2909#comment-17318</guid>
		<description>Good parenting is the key to good schools...... :)  Don&#039;t care what kind of school it is.....you don&#039;t have good parenting, you don&#039;t have good schools.....someone has to be held accountable and I don&#039;t trust the county school boards and administrators......they are all trying to be too politically correct   I do not blame these charter school parents.....it&#039;s better than sending your children to school and worrying about them all day.  Private school parents learned this a long, long time ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good parenting is the key to good schools&#8230;&#8230; <img src='http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   Don&#8217;t care what kind of school it is&#8230;..you don&#8217;t have good parenting, you don&#8217;t have good schools&#8230;..someone has to be held accountable and I don&#8217;t trust the county school boards and administrators&#8230;&#8230;they are all trying to be too politically correct   I do not blame these charter school parents&#8230;..it&#8217;s better than sending your children to school and worrying about them all day.  Private school parents learned this a long, long time ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/11/09/shouldnt-the-goal-in-georgia-be-good-schools-charter-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-17317</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:03:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=2909#comment-17317</guid>
		<description>The goal should be better schools - all the way around. Why you see the outlash in the community for charters is that even storming the school board for improvments in the traditional public schools fall short - every single time, unless you are wealthy and politically connected. That is why charters are taking on a life of their own, and I agree that skews things out of balance. The biggest problem is that many local school boards think that offering the poor and minority students in communities low hanging fruit (less qualified teachers, less prioritization of attention, celebrations for &quot;meeting expectations&quot; (as if that were something to brag about it) is all their community is entitled to. I am sitting in Valdosta City as we speak, and I can tell you that even in this small community ( and still under a court order desegregation decree) - the issues are exactly the same as in Gwinnett and it is because mobilizing the vote to remove school board members in poorer zoning area&#039;s (if the zones are not already politically fixed anyway) is very, very difficult. School board members no longer hold superintendents accountable for the struggling students and communities, so the power shift is having to move to the parent who is already overburdened with just getting their kids off to school well fed and healthy while holding one or two jobs to keep a roof over their head. The charter movement from a parents perspective is the result of inattention to the needs of underserved communities by the school board superintendents and their elected members.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The goal should be better schools &#8211; all the way around. Why you see the outlash in the community for charters is that even storming the school board for improvments in the traditional public schools fall short &#8211; every single time, unless you are wealthy and politically connected. That is why charters are taking on a life of their own, and I agree that skews things out of balance. The biggest problem is that many local school boards think that offering the poor and minority students in communities low hanging fruit (less qualified teachers, less prioritization of attention, celebrations for &#8220;meeting expectations&#8221; (as if that were something to brag about it) is all their community is entitled to. I am sitting in Valdosta City as we speak, and I can tell you that even in this small community ( and still under a court order desegregation decree) &#8211; the issues are exactly the same as in Gwinnett and it is because mobilizing the vote to remove school board members in poorer zoning area&#8217;s (if the zones are not already politically fixed anyway) is very, very difficult. School board members no longer hold superintendents accountable for the struggling students and communities, so the power shift is having to move to the parent who is already overburdened with just getting their kids off to school well fed and healthy while holding one or two jobs to keep a roof over their head. The charter movement from a parents perspective is the result of inattention to the needs of underserved communities by the school board superintendents and their elected members.</p>
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		<title>By: Veteran teacher, 2</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/11/09/shouldnt-the-goal-in-georgia-be-good-schools-charter-or-not/comment-page-1/#comment-17310</link>
		<dc:creator>Veteran teacher, 2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 02:42:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=2909#comment-17310</guid>
		<description>Clyde, please understand that removed students count AGAINST the school in the crazy No Child Left Behind Statistics.  I assure you that most of the kids you refer to were not around until we got NCLB.  What are we all doing to get rid of NCLB??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clyde, please understand that removed students count AGAINST the school in the crazy No Child Left Behind Statistics.  I assure you that most of the kids you refer to were not around until we got NCLB.  What are we all doing to get rid of NCLB??</p>
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