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	<title>Comments on: In mixed up world: &#8220;Girls will be boys and boys will be girls&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/11/08/in-mixed-up-world-girls-will-be-boys-and-boys-will-be-girls/</link>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/11/08/in-mixed-up-world-girls-will-be-boys-and-boys-will-be-girls/comment-page-1/#comment-20193</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 07:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=2891#comment-20193</guid>
		<description>Honestly, what is the big deal? Kids should have some standards in what they wear (no halters, mini skirts like one poster said) but why does that mean that a skirt or dress or makeup should be off limits to a male? Pants once were forbidden from women...does that mean that they shouldn&#039;t be allowed to wear them? And for any kid who claims to be distracted by a cross dresser, they are lying, or ommitting the fact that there are hundreds of things about classmates to be distractd by. The pretty girl, the obnoxious class clown, people talking, lights, balls of lint...come on now. That&#039;s like saying that a black person is a distraction to a student&#039;s learning. It&#039;s just as asinine. School isn&#039;t only a place to learn math and english and science, but to learn about society and other people and yourself. There are more gays, lesbians, cross dressers, transsexual or transgendered students because it is increasingly accepted in society. And for the poster who wrote that atheists are outside societal norms, you are an idiot, simply put. The majority of Americans don&#039;t identify with a church or religion and would think of themselves as atheist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly, what is the big deal? Kids should have some standards in what they wear (no halters, mini skirts like one poster said) but why does that mean that a skirt or dress or makeup should be off limits to a male? Pants once were forbidden from women&#8230;does that mean that they shouldn&#8217;t be allowed to wear them? And for any kid who claims to be distracted by a cross dresser, they are lying, or ommitting the fact that there are hundreds of things about classmates to be distractd by. The pretty girl, the obnoxious class clown, people talking, lights, balls of lint&#8230;come on now. That&#8217;s like saying that a black person is a distraction to a student&#8217;s learning. It&#8217;s just as asinine. School isn&#8217;t only a place to learn math and english and science, but to learn about society and other people and yourself. There are more gays, lesbians, cross dressers, transsexual or transgendered students because it is increasingly accepted in society. And for the poster who wrote that atheists are outside societal norms, you are an idiot, simply put. The majority of Americans don&#8217;t identify with a church or religion and would think of themselves as atheist.</p>
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		<title>By: blkshepherd</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/11/08/in-mixed-up-world-girls-will-be-boys-and-boys-will-be-girls/comment-page-1/#comment-20008</link>
		<dc:creator>blkshepherd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=2891#comment-20008</guid>
		<description>Should read Emulate for you so called Spell check Police.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Should read Emulate for you so called Spell check Police.</p>
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		<title>By: blkshepherd</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/11/08/in-mixed-up-world-girls-will-be-boys-and-boys-will-be-girls/comment-page-1/#comment-20007</link>
		<dc:creator>blkshepherd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=2891#comment-20007</guid>
		<description>I just dont get it. not at all. I came from a era (the 60s and 70s) where males did everything in their power To make sure their Butts were not exposed much less someone looking at it exposing your underwear. Thats suppose to be mucho with your butt hanging out exposed to the other males of the  world? I would think the one thing you didnt want is another male staring at your buttcrack, Yet its some of these same males would see a femmine male and call him the F word. well your showing YOUR BUTT to the other males seems like the Pot calling the kettle black..hmmm someone seems a bit confused. Girls wearing Male clothes that want to be males yet dislike males..hmm the very gender they hate they try to look like? emualte?..again confused..hmm same with males who want to look like females yet dislike females ..hmmmm. Confused. more like Crazy. YES. its distracting. You dont go to any school for the sake of FASHION but to PUT something in that Thick skull. As long as you are providing for that child (Yes child as you shouldnt be providing for an Adult. until they can support their own behinds then they should follow the rules. no exceptions. And the youth is suppose to be our future..well in that case I am glad (being 53) I wont be around to see this confused generation lead the world. My generation is was Far more into books then trying to attract attention to ourselves. and Yes we actually could read write and hold an intelligent mind stimulating conversation. Its not the total fault of the parents. I know parents who do everything and provide the best. and the Little Sh#t still rebels. Its a catch 22 situation. damned if the parents do. damned if they dont. My mother taught me ALOT. the rest I learned for myself MEANING I didnt have to be told not to hang with the INcrowd. I clearly could see for myself they were headed for a train wreck. Its about self discipline. something of which most young folks today know nothing about. I feel sorry for them. I really do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just dont get it. not at all. I came from a era (the 60s and 70s) where males did everything in their power To make sure their Butts were not exposed much less someone looking at it exposing your underwear. Thats suppose to be mucho with your butt hanging out exposed to the other males of the  world? I would think the one thing you didnt want is another male staring at your buttcrack, Yet its some of these same males would see a femmine male and call him the F word. well your showing YOUR BUTT to the other males seems like the Pot calling the kettle black..hmmm someone seems a bit confused. Girls wearing Male clothes that want to be males yet dislike males..hmm the very gender they hate they try to look like? emualte?..again confused..hmm same with males who want to look like females yet dislike females ..hmmmm. Confused. more like Crazy. YES. its distracting. You dont go to any school for the sake of FASHION but to PUT something in that Thick skull. As long as you are providing for that child (Yes child as you shouldnt be providing for an Adult. until they can support their own behinds then they should follow the rules. no exceptions. And the youth is suppose to be our future..well in that case I am glad (being 53) I wont be around to see this confused generation lead the world. My generation is was Far more into books then trying to attract attention to ourselves. and Yes we actually could read write and hold an intelligent mind stimulating conversation. Its not the total fault of the parents. I know parents who do everything and provide the best. and the Little Sh#t still rebels. Its a catch 22 situation. damned if the parents do. damned if they dont. My mother taught me ALOT. the rest I learned for myself MEANING I didnt have to be told not to hang with the INcrowd. I clearly could see for myself they were headed for a train wreck. Its about self discipline. something of which most young folks today know nothing about. I feel sorry for them. I really do.</p>
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		<title>By: Bring Back Southern Voice!</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/11/08/in-mixed-up-world-girls-will-be-boys-and-boys-will-be-girls/comment-page-1/#comment-19910</link>
		<dc:creator>Bring Back Southern Voice!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:21:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=2891#comment-19910</guid>
		<description>Great discussions! I agree we should pay attention to our children, and if you want to focus on dress, okay.  Now let&#039;s channel all of this energy to homework, safety, discipline, structure, morals, guidance, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great discussions! I agree we should pay attention to our children, and if you want to focus on dress, okay.  Now let&#8217;s channel all of this energy to homework, safety, discipline, structure, morals, guidance, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: BlackGirl</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/11/08/in-mixed-up-world-girls-will-be-boys-and-boys-will-be-girls/comment-page-1/#comment-17322</link>
		<dc:creator>BlackGirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=2891#comment-17322</guid>
		<description>Until NCLB is ended or revamped, the only concern of public schools will be test scores.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Until NCLB is ended or revamped, the only concern of public schools will be test scores.</p>
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		<title>By: meanbutlovingMAMA</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/11/08/in-mixed-up-world-girls-will-be-boys-and-boys-will-be-girls/comment-page-1/#comment-17321</link>
		<dc:creator>meanbutlovingMAMA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=2891#comment-17321</guid>
		<description>@ Larry ... LOL!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Larry &#8230; LOL!!!</p>
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		<title>By: philosopher-</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/11/08/in-mixed-up-world-girls-will-be-boys-and-boys-will-be-girls/comment-page-1/#comment-17320</link>
		<dc:creator>philosopher-</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=2891#comment-17320</guid>
		<description>Amy Durrence....I would certainly not argue with such reasoning-well said!   HOWEVER... my experience with public schools is that being reasonable is not part of the game plan...kids thinking for themselves is NOT encouraged in public school...CONTROL is what it is all about...on every level. The answer to every problem faced by school officials is, &quot;take it away&quot;, &quot;prohibit it&quot;&#039;, or &quot;punish it&quot;. Hell&#039;s bells, they can&#039;t even handle the small things...someone wrote on the wall in the bathroom at my child&#039;s school, so now, they aren&#039;t allowed to use the bathroom (it&#039;s true! ). Public school mentality...you can&#039;t teach them anything new.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amy Durrence&#8230;.I would certainly not argue with such reasoning-well said!   HOWEVER&#8230; my experience with public schools is that being reasonable is not part of the game plan&#8230;kids thinking for themselves is NOT encouraged in public school&#8230;CONTROL is what it is all about&#8230;on every level. The answer to every problem faced by school officials is, &#8220;take it away&#8221;, &#8220;prohibit it&#8221;&#8216;, or &#8220;punish it&#8221;. Hell&#8217;s bells, they can&#8217;t even handle the small things&#8230;someone wrote on the wall in the bathroom at my child&#8217;s school, so now, they aren&#8217;t allowed to use the bathroom (it&#8217;s true! ). Public school mentality&#8230;you can&#8217;t teach them anything new.</p>
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		<title>By: Amy D</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/11/08/in-mixed-up-world-girls-will-be-boys-and-boys-will-be-girls/comment-page-1/#comment-17312</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 03:23:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=2891#comment-17312</guid>
		<description>Dear Ms. Downey,

	In my opinion the phenomena of “gender-bending” you discussed in your recent article describing the growing tensions between “gender-bending” teenagers and traditional dress codes, In mixed up world: “Girls will be boys and boys will be girls,” are indicative of a deeper issue that has actually been around since the very beginning of education. That issue is, how much First Amendment freedom are we willing to give students within school walls? To put it another way, how do we balance a student’s freedom of expression against a school’s need for order?

	This problem came up during the Vietnam War when, in a noteworthy Supreme Court case Tinker v Des Moines School District, the Court ruled that students were allowed to wear armbands in protest contra to the school’s complaints. This decision did not, however, allow students to enjoy First Amendment rights fully. Instead, the Court ruled that students could only protest and otherwise act out against school policies under the protection of the First Amendment so long as their actions did not disrupt the learning environment in schools. 

	Many individuals would argue that the recent “gender bending” acts against school code, such as cross-dressing, would probably, if not definitely, disrupt the learning environment and should be disallowed. Based on the manner in which schools are fun today, these actions probably would cause a disruption. However, I argue that the distraction that would ensue is not representative of a problem within the action of the children, but instead with the set up of the schools. If our schools were run in such a way where children were encouraged to take an idea and think about it, I mean really think about it, these sorts of actions would not cause a disruption. If children were given the opportunity, after being provided with all the facts, to make their own decisions about an idea’s value and merit as opposed to just given a ‘truth’ by the education system, children acting contrary to certain policies would not be distracting at all. Instead the practice of constant inquiry would be a part of the learning process. That is, children would be taught to question the norm. They would be encouraged to make decisions for themselves after being given all the facts. This sort of system would turn out more tolerant and compassionate individuals. For example, instead of perpetuating outdated gender stereotypes, children would be freer to decide how to define themselves as individuals, not as part of a sex. I am not saying that children should or would agree with everything that other students believed. Instead, they would be able to at least respect and dignify others’ opinions (which is more than many adults are able to do). This system would also give children a better chance of success in their own lives and as contributing citizens. This is the case because instead of focusing on the useless retention of random facts, which unfortunately many schools do, the system would focus on analytical thought, which is a much more important tool than memorization. 

	I know this sounds like a sort of cuckoo idea at first, but understand that I am not advocated that there be no rules, or that children be encouraged to break rules. Instead, children should be able, with their teachers, to talk about a system of rules that should be implemented. They should discuss why some are better and more necessary than others, and why some treat certain groups of students unfairly. What better training for being an engaged citizen? In this system, children could wear what they wanted so long as the other students agreed that it didn’t hurt or distract anyone. The only reason a wig on a boy is distracting is because adults have been telling children that it’s not right. I think schools need to be more focused on educating children in how to think freely. Children need to be more involved in determining the rules that they will be subject to within school walls. This is America after all, if we are going to preach freedom, shouldn’t we teach it as well?

Amy Durrence
Raised in Marietta GA in Cobb County public schools</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Ms. Downey,</p>
<p>	In my opinion the phenomena of “gender-bending” you discussed in your recent article describing the growing tensions between “gender-bending” teenagers and traditional dress codes, In mixed up world: “Girls will be boys and boys will be girls,” are indicative of a deeper issue that has actually been around since the very beginning of education. That issue is, how much First Amendment freedom are we willing to give students within school walls? To put it another way, how do we balance a student’s freedom of expression against a school’s need for order?</p>
<p>	This problem came up during the Vietnam War when, in a noteworthy Supreme Court case Tinker v Des Moines School District, the Court ruled that students were allowed to wear armbands in protest contra to the school’s complaints. This decision did not, however, allow students to enjoy First Amendment rights fully. Instead, the Court ruled that students could only protest and otherwise act out against school policies under the protection of the First Amendment so long as their actions did not disrupt the learning environment in schools. </p>
<p>	Many individuals would argue that the recent “gender bending” acts against school code, such as cross-dressing, would probably, if not definitely, disrupt the learning environment and should be disallowed. Based on the manner in which schools are fun today, these actions probably would cause a disruption. However, I argue that the distraction that would ensue is not representative of a problem within the action of the children, but instead with the set up of the schools. If our schools were run in such a way where children were encouraged to take an idea and think about it, I mean really think about it, these sorts of actions would not cause a disruption. If children were given the opportunity, after being provided with all the facts, to make their own decisions about an idea’s value and merit as opposed to just given a ‘truth’ by the education system, children acting contrary to certain policies would not be distracting at all. Instead the practice of constant inquiry would be a part of the learning process. That is, children would be taught to question the norm. They would be encouraged to make decisions for themselves after being given all the facts. This sort of system would turn out more tolerant and compassionate individuals. For example, instead of perpetuating outdated gender stereotypes, children would be freer to decide how to define themselves as individuals, not as part of a sex. I am not saying that children should or would agree with everything that other students believed. Instead, they would be able to at least respect and dignify others’ opinions (which is more than many adults are able to do). This system would also give children a better chance of success in their own lives and as contributing citizens. This is the case because instead of focusing on the useless retention of random facts, which unfortunately many schools do, the system would focus on analytical thought, which is a much more important tool than memorization. </p>
<p>	I know this sounds like a sort of cuckoo idea at first, but understand that I am not advocated that there be no rules, or that children be encouraged to break rules. Instead, children should be able, with their teachers, to talk about a system of rules that should be implemented. They should discuss why some are better and more necessary than others, and why some treat certain groups of students unfairly. What better training for being an engaged citizen? In this system, children could wear what they wanted so long as the other students agreed that it didn’t hurt or distract anyone. The only reason a wig on a boy is distracting is because adults have been telling children that it’s not right. I think schools need to be more focused on educating children in how to think freely. Children need to be more involved in determining the rules that they will be subject to within school walls. This is America after all, if we are going to preach freedom, shouldn’t we teach it as well?</p>
<p>Amy Durrence<br />
Raised in Marietta GA in Cobb County public schools</p>
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		<title>By: DeKalb Conservative</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/11/08/in-mixed-up-world-girls-will-be-boys-and-boys-will-be-girls/comment-page-1/#comment-17282</link>
		<dc:creator>DeKalb Conservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:06:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=2891#comment-17282</guid>
		<description>@ V for Vendetta

I know I&#039;ve had alot of posts on here today, but I&#039;m all for letting kids dress how they want. Kids should be given the benefit of the doubt that they can learn the importance of what settings certain behaviors are expected in. Call it a common sense &#039;dress for success&#039; attitude. Since success means different things to different people and success can be measured differently, why not allow some more segmentation? 

There is some danger in your argument. You&#039;re making an assumption a student is going to college. Again, if the sole purpose of a school was to prepare a student for self sufficient adult citizenship, then discussing college has no merit. The community&#039;s obligation to the student and preparing him for adult citizenship ends with an earned high school diploma, the lowest common denominator.

That said, let&#039;s debate the college angle. Unlike public secondary schools, in college (public or private) a student is not forced into that environment and has an obligation to fund he/her way, either through capital, or through scholarship. In college, the student has more choice and has more control over his destiny.

In college the stakes are raised to the freedom and choices a student can make and in addition the stakes are raised for students to express opposing views towards cross dressers, a negative outcome. In high school verbal outbursts, or other negative behavior, including hazing directed towards a cross dresser is more easily identified and punishable. Move to college where some campuses have 30k+ students and no vice principal for discipline, and it gets a whole lot harder for a cross dresser to stop harassment.

Finally college tends to blur the classroom v. non-classroom setting via dorm rooms. In public high schools students do not attend school on the same campus that they live. I do realize that for the very flamboyant cross dresser that this blurring can make life more difficult because there are fewer safe havens were he is able to dress the way he identifies himself without being surrounded by negative reactions of his peers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ V for Vendetta</p>
<p>I know I&#8217;ve had alot of posts on here today, but I&#8217;m all for letting kids dress how they want. Kids should be given the benefit of the doubt that they can learn the importance of what settings certain behaviors are expected in. Call it a common sense &#8216;dress for success&#8217; attitude. Since success means different things to different people and success can be measured differently, why not allow some more segmentation? </p>
<p>There is some danger in your argument. You&#8217;re making an assumption a student is going to college. Again, if the sole purpose of a school was to prepare a student for self sufficient adult citizenship, then discussing college has no merit. The community&#8217;s obligation to the student and preparing him for adult citizenship ends with an earned high school diploma, the lowest common denominator.</p>
<p>That said, let&#8217;s debate the college angle. Unlike public secondary schools, in college (public or private) a student is not forced into that environment and has an obligation to fund he/her way, either through capital, or through scholarship. In college, the student has more choice and has more control over his destiny.</p>
<p>In college the stakes are raised to the freedom and choices a student can make and in addition the stakes are raised for students to express opposing views towards cross dressers, a negative outcome. In high school verbal outbursts, or other negative behavior, including hazing directed towards a cross dresser is more easily identified and punishable. Move to college where some campuses have 30k+ students and no vice principal for discipline, and it gets a whole lot harder for a cross dresser to stop harassment.</p>
<p>Finally college tends to blur the classroom v. non-classroom setting via dorm rooms. In public high schools students do not attend school on the same campus that they live. I do realize that for the very flamboyant cross dresser that this blurring can make life more difficult because there are fewer safe havens were he is able to dress the way he identifies himself without being surrounded by negative reactions of his peers.</p>
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		<title>By: In mixed up world: “Girls will be boys and boys will be girls &#8230; School&#8217;s Rate</title>
		<link>http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2009/11/08/in-mixed-up-world-girls-will-be-boys-and-boys-will-be-girls/comment-page-1/#comment-17281</link>
		<dc:creator>In mixed up world: “Girls will be boys and boys will be girls &#8230; School&#8217;s Rate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 19:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/?p=2891#comment-17281</guid>
		<description>[...] more:  In mixed up world: “Girls will be boys and boys will be girls &#8230;          By admin &#124; category: boys school &#124; tags: county, goalie, johnny, lacrosse, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] more:  In mixed up world: “Girls will be boys and boys will be girls &#8230;          By admin | category: boys school | tags: county, goalie, johnny, lacrosse, [...]</p>
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