Mom says virtual school was virtual waste of time, money
(This entry has provoked a lot of response. Please note that the mom in question responds to some of the comments under the name “Cobb Mother.” Thanks, Maureen)
I just hung up with a Cobb mother – a former CDC employee – whose child attended the Georgia Virtual Academy. (The girl is now back in a public elementary school, but the mom is not happy there and plans to send her to a Catholic school next. The child had been in a Catholic school in the past, but the mom could no longer afford it due to divorce.)
The k-8 academy is the only virtual charter school in the state, operated under the umbrella of the education management company K12 Inc, the nation’s largest online curriculum provider. The online school paired up with an existing state-approved charter school, the Odyssey School in Newnan, and opened here in 2007. The state pays for the students who enroll in the Georgia Virtual Academy. (Please note that the academy is not the virtual high school run by the state.)
More virtual schools are seeking to open here now that we have a state law entitling them to local and state school monies, thus making Georgia a very lucrative place to do business.
I have read postings to Get Schooled praising the Georgia Virtual Academy, but they have been from parents who say they are homeschooling. This mom says she did not intend to homeschool and that the academy was never presented to her as a homeschooling program until after she enrolled her daughter.
Here is her experience told to me both via an e-mail and a phone conversation:
After hearing the media coverage, reviewing the web site of the Georgia Virtual Academy and attending the meeting they had at the Buckhead Library on Pharr Rd, I entered my fourth grade daughter in the lottery for the Georgia Virtual Academy. She secured a spot.
The entire time we were led to believe that this was going to be a true virtual computer learning environment where there were going to be interactive computer lessons online, that a teacher would be available constantly from 8:00 am to 4:00 pm with a Web interface, similar to a commercial one like “Go to Meeting 123.”
I had no reason not to think this was possible because 25 years ago I had been the teaching assistant for a mechanical engineering class taught from the main campus at Purdue University to students in Indianapolis. So surely, this could be done and even easier 25 years later.
Although boxes of books are mailed to you in the summer, you are absolutely not allowed to log on and start until the day classes start. The Thursday before the Monday class was suppose to start, I get a call from the teacher. She tells me that she has 120 students, and that she is only required to call each student and their coach (parent) every six weeks and talk to them for 20 minutes via the telephone. She then went on to say that she had 48 hours to respond to any question e-mailed to her. I was like what, “Where was the virtual, real time in this?”
I was informed that when school started on Monday we would log on and take a placement test and go from there.
On Monday, Aug. 21, we spent over two hours trying to log on to the school, followed by hours on hold. My daughter took a simple six-question multiple question test and we were directed to the math book.
I was basically told then that this was homeschooling and that I was on my own. When I called — and after hours of holding — the school rep said, “Didn’t you understand that you are the coach, and it is like homeschooling.”
I told them no. I was told it was a virtual school. Not homeschooling. This is an absolute sham and a corporate rip-off of the taxpayer dollars that paid for my daughter’s spot in the school.
Since the state did not cover music, art and foreign language in the Georgia Virtual Academy, I was suckered into paying $1,400 in tuition for their Private Virtual International School for these courses. I had to fight with them to get my money refunded for these courses. This sham needs to be exposed.
Parents do need options. My daughter is in the local public school and was headbutted in September by a boy because he would not share a jump rope. In October, a girl pushed a boy and he knocked my daughter into a fire hydrant. My daughter ended up with a concussion.
My daughter is a straight A student. She should not have to put up with these kids who don’t have any restraint. We need to have the vouchers as Eric Johnson has proposed, so the parent can decid how or where they want to spend the money.
I would love to hear from other parents. I looked at the available CRCT scores for the Georgia Virtual Academy. In 2007-2008, they trailed the state in math by a disturbing margin. Is the school working for you and would you call yourself a homeschooler?
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70 comments Add your comment
LSH
November 6th, 2009
1:42 pm
So, the kid goes to one school- the mother is not happy, the kid goes to a virtual school- the mother is not happy, the kid goes to another public school, the mother is still not happy. And now a Catholic school is going to make her happy?
I think this mother had unrealistic expectations of this virtual school. Teaching a class is not like holding a business conference. A teacher with 120 students (standard or even low by public high school teachers) could not possibly be interacting constantly with all the students at the same time from 8-4 without a break. In a real classroom, the teacher does not usually answer every kids question- there is not enough hours in the day. The teacher does not provide feed back instantly- it takes a few days or even a week or more to get papers graded. A teacher needs time to plan lessons.
The teacher was calling was setting up guidelines of what parents could expect. Parents could not rant that it took the teacher hours to answer an email, the parent could not be on the phone every day discussing the progress of the child. If the teacher got just one email from every student every day, she would be answering 600 emails a week. Just like in public school- there are many students and only one teacher- they have to divide their time among the students.
Maureen Downey
November 6th, 2009
1:44 pm
LSH, I have to add one fact here; This mom had her child in a Catholic school in the past but had to take her out for financial reasons tied to divorce. So, she has been happy with a school, just not one she can afford. Hence, her support for vouchers.
Maureen
AT
November 6th, 2009
2:40 pm
I have to disagree with this mom. We are doing GVA, and it is most definitely presented as a homeschool program. When you enroll, you are asked who will be the learning coach. The school calls to answer any questions and explain how the program works. Their website even tells you how much time to expect utilizing the computer and how much is adult directed. It is very upfront. They have numerous meet and greet sessions, as well as Q & A sessions. If this mother feels she was misled, I am inclined to believe it is because she did not pay attention and do her due diligence. I also have to contradict her statement that you are not allowed to start the courses before the start day of school, as it is simply not true. We did, and in fact started a week before the official start date of school. We have had no problems logging into the school, certainly nothing even remotely close to 2 hours. As far as the teachers, she was upfront and said that she will reply within 24 hours of receiving an email, but it is usually much faster. And if I absolutely must reach her immediately, I can always reach her by phone. She always let us know if she will be out of the office, but otherwise she is available all day. While conferneces with the teacher are scheduled once every six weeks, there are several interactive live classrooms various times of the month. As far as her claim that she was suckered into the Private Virtual International school for art, music, and foreign language, I am leery of that claim since I’ve never heard of them nor was I approached in any manner to sign up for their services. In short, this school works for me, and yes I would call myself a homeschooler. The program has been adjusted to my daughter’s advanced learning curve, something I don’t feel she would have gotten at a traditional school. Overall, we are very happy with the program.
Pam
November 6th, 2009
2:41 pm
Cobb mother,
You need to get prepared a onslaught of attacks from public school parents. When you give reasonable and specific details of how public schools don’t work you will be hated and attacked.
JB
November 6th, 2009
2:50 pm
Having one daughter in GVA, I can assure you that it was presented as a home-study school, and the parent/guardian is responsible for being the learning coach. If you don’t have the time to teach your child, don’t sign up.
AT
November 6th, 2009
2:55 pm
Also, as a side note, the fact that you highlighted that the mother was a former CDC employee, is that supposed to make her appear smarter than the average person and therefore the words coming out of her mouth hold more weight? It doesn’t mention her job title at the CDC, nor what she does now, so I am left to believe that its mention is for appearance sake only.
Marie
November 6th, 2009
3:01 pm
Looks to be like she should be prepared for an onslaught of attacks from people who favor charter/virtual schools… But, anyway, my heart does go out to this mother for her predicament. I do want her to be aware that in Cobb County, transfers are also permissible (in addition to NCLB and school choice) in the case where a student feels unsafe in a particular school environment. I would encourage the mother to look into this and see if she can get her daughter into a better environment without having to pony up for Catholic School.
Matt Arkin
November 6th, 2009
3:14 pm
Maureen,
I am sorry to hear that this parent had an experience that did not meet her expectations for the week or so that she was enrolled in Georgia Virtual Academy this Fall. With each teacher responsible for 65-70 students, it is logistically impossible to have one of GVA’s highly qualified and certified teachers available “real-time” for every individual student every hour of every day. Despite this, students and learning coaches are far from “on their own”, with teachers available via phone and e-mail, frequent online class sessions, and regular open-office hours and assemblies where teachers and/or administrators are available real-time.
GVA has been and will continue to be very clear regarding our model of instruction (not homeschooling, but “public schooling at home”) both in our charter and our information sessions. We would be happy to have you attend a GVA information session for prospective parents. I think you would find that we are very upfront with setting expectations for parents regarding their role as “Learning Coaches” and the accountability required of every student and parent to participate in this public school. Despite the high expectations and responsibility that is required of these parents and students, over 85% of eligible students from last Spring chose to re-register for this Fall.
It is unclear why CRCT scores from two years ago (GVA’s first year of existence) were used in this post. GVA’s most recent CRCT results from 2008-2009 show that the school made double-digit gains in Math in just one year (significantly outpacing state gains) AND made AYP. Many students come to GVA because they have fallen behind academically at their own school: for example, in 2007-2008, over 83% of 8th graders enrolling in GVA were more than 1 year behind in Math, and over 55% of 8th graders were over TWO years behind in Math. The results from GVA’s second year show that students that stay with the school show significant academic gains – a trend that we expect to see continue strongly in our third year (and a trend that has been shown repeatedly by K12 virtual academies in other states).
We certainly do not expect that the GVA model (or virtual education in general) will be the right fit for every family. The good news is that we are already seeing the strong academic benefits and parental satisfaction for the students that GVA and virtual public education ARE the right fit for—students that aren’t getting the education that best fits their needs in a traditional “brick and mortar” school.
Matt Arkin
GVA Head of School
Mom says virtual school was virtual waste of time, money | Get … School’s Rate
November 6th, 2009
4:29 pm
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Georgia Virtual Academy Learning Coach
November 6th, 2009
5:21 pm
GVA has the best teachers in the state teaching our students. My GVA middle school students have live virtual classes several times a week taught by the best teachers in Georgia. The teachers, students and learning coaches take a team approach to education and it works.
dgroy
November 6th, 2009
5:34 pm
Hate to be negative here but, me thinks the “Mom” is lazy and wanted a babysitter and what was the purpose in “Mom” stating she “worked for the CDC?”
Terry
November 6th, 2009
7:41 pm
I am in agreement with the need for vouchers.
Sarge
November 6th, 2009
10:15 pm
As with many issues in contemporary society, it seems that, rather than deal with the issue in a tried-and-proven manner, we are in a constant quest to re-invent the wheel. We feel that, somehow, if we (rhetorically speaking) stir the paint with a slide rule rather than the traditional stir stick, the paint will be better-stired. The result, more often as not, is snake oil…in this case, tax-funded snake oil. Fueled by the mistaken notion that the snake oil side of technology can somehow better those tried-and-proven education methods of past, we fall prey to those who, like the carnavel barker, would convince the believing public. Get the education elite and their politics out of the classroom, put this virtual nonesense where it belongs…in the dumpster labeled “STUPID STUFF”, and let the teachers teach. IT’S THE ONLY WAY…THERE IS NO BETTER WAY.
ScienceTeacher671
November 6th, 2009
10:28 pm
I thought that if you were Catholic and couldn’t afford Catholic school, the diocese would work with you so that your children could receive a religious education…but maybe that was back in the olden days, or maybe the mother isn’t Catholic?
Crimson Wife
November 6th, 2009
10:57 pm
I tend to agree with the previous comments that the mom must not have been paying attention when she signed her child up. I looked into the K12 run California Virtual Academy and it was very clear that what was offered is a home-based independent study program. If she wanted live web-conference classes, those are available from private schools but at a pretty hefty price (for example the Stanford Online High School charges $12k/year).
Warrior and Mom
November 6th, 2009
11:06 pm
It sounds like this mom needs to get 2 jobs and put the student in daycare. I work 2 jobs and have two kids w/o help.
Tom2
November 6th, 2009
11:27 pm
The problem is government school teachers answer to everyone but those who pay the bills. Privatize this mess and most of these problems will vanish. No private business could survive with such poor service. And with widespread competition, the cost would be a fraction of expensive government education.
Juju
November 7th, 2009
5:32 am
I love the idea of a virtural school for some kids. Some kids need this isolation from others. Some kids should not be around other people.
Does anyone have experience with GA Virtual
November 7th, 2009
7:21 am
Does anyone here have experience with GA Virtual School which is administered through the state DOE? I am wondering how high school classes through GA Virtual have worked out for people whp may be reading this board. I am interested in having my daughter take a class through them next summer.
ATL parent
November 7th, 2009
7:24 am
Cobb mother is on verge of having a emotionally damaged child–a divorce combined with 3 going on 4 school changes and the daughter is only a fourth grader.
Settle down Cobb mom. Put the child in a school and stick it out, the she needs stability.
Old School
November 7th, 2009
7:46 am
We have a “virtual high school” class that is administered by a certified teacher and a parapro. It is available for students who are too far behind or cannot handle the regular classroom but are not the severe discipline problems in our alternative school. Before the current teacher took over, cheating was the norm (that “teacher” actually helped them cheat) and there were cases where students took and successfully completed challenging courses like physics in 3 days! That has completely changed and all students are closely monitored, violators dealt with immediately and firmly, and the success rate is really good. Additionally, the students are actually learning. They graduate at the same ceremony as the other students but their diploma is from the online school and not the brick&mortar one.
Maybe that’s the best arrangement: a school within a school with an honest instructor.
d
November 7th, 2009
9:06 am
Tom2, if we privatize public schools, that would save you about $1,000 a year in property taxes (at least that’s about what my school tax portion of my bill is.) Let’s say you have 2 kids…. could they get a quality education for $500 a year each? The answer is no, of course not. Terry, based on the same numbers, do you really feel you deserve the welfare (voucher) of $5,000 per child when you pay only $500 per child (based upon the numbers I gave earlier)? Vouchers = WELFARE for the rich. How? Well, the answer lies in simple high school economics. If you give people more income (the voucher) they will want more of the good or service (private education)…. this will drive prices up so only those who could have afforded the education prior to the vouchers will still be the only ones who can afford it, but now they get a taxpayer scholarship on top of it. Hardly seems fair to me.
Public education is the great equalizer. Just look at the article about the student from Wheeler that Maureen posted earlier. This is proof that our public (or if you wish to be derogatory “government”) schools can work…. A major problem lies in the fact that there is student and parent apathy across the board. Private schools can get rid of a kid who isn’t doing the work necessary and guess what, their scores look great….. Public schools don’t have the luxury of that. They must teach (or try to teach) every child who comes through the doors. Believe it or not, most of the public school teachers I know do a great job at this, but the old saying comes to mind… “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.” The kids have no accountability, and accountability produces results.
Tim
November 7th, 2009
9:19 am
The obvious observation is that there would be, uh, virtually, no market for this kind of
tommyrot if our tax dollars were being used to provide an adequate a quality public school
system. Funny how kids from my era did just fine with the public schools….
Kids now don’t know Nebraska from the Netherlands and textspeak is the official language.
Badger
November 7th, 2009
11:02 am
No need for vouchers. If you don’t like the school your child is in then get involved and change it or move to an area that has better schools. I see no reason to allow your little hoodlum to move to a better school so that he are she can make every effort to lower the standards of that better school. It has been proven over and over that when parents are involved in the school the the students get a better education. Oh I forgot, inner city schools…Parents don’t want to be involved, they just want to pump out more babies, get high, and conduct their criminal activities without the anchor of a child.
educateyourself
November 7th, 2009
11:14 am
Educate yourself.
US census and GPS mapping: Big Brother at your door….
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/censusgpstagging04nov09.shtml
Edge
November 7th, 2009
11:18 am
I think the real problem this mother had with public school is being glossed over here. There is a real chance of violent behavior in public schools because the system us afraid of getting sued when they try to deal with real disruptive behavior. With many new “EBD” special ed. kids everyday in our schools that are protected by legislation, that real danger is magnified. We had a name for “EBD” kids when I was in school…we called them jerks with bad parents. This is not a special education matter. This is a counselor/DFACS matter. What happened to the rights of all of the other students to get an education. I am a firm believer that your rights stop where mine start. Get the violent and disruptive kids out of public school and there will be no need for most of this mess. Even the best teacher cannot teach when they are forced to deal with the discipline problems 80% of the time and teach 20%.
Proud GVA Parent!!
November 7th, 2009
11:52 am
I have been a GVA parent since GVA started in Georgia. I love the program and how it works! This mother obviously did not bother to do in research before she enrolled and because of her lack of knowledge she has decided to attack a program that has 5,000 students in the state of Georgia. I am sorry that she had such a bad experience but when changing to any school virtual or not it is important for parents to do their research to determine what is best for their children.
One of the best qualities that GVA has is that parents are involved 100% with their children’s education and still have the support of state certified teachers to help them with their children. The materials supplied for both the child and the parents are very involved and make it so that parents can teach their children. Everything is provided to help parents teach their children. And the children are given all the resources and handouts that they need so that they can learn and practice. To date my school supplies for the past 3 years have been pencils, paper, notebooks, binders and a white board, even though the school provides a hand held whiteboard for the kids. I do not have panic attacks trying to figure out how to buy supplies for the school and the teachers, and I do not have to spend a fortune in school clothes to make sure my daughter is up to date with the trendiest clothes. Now my time is spent actually teaching my daughter how to write, understand and comprehend novels and get an education that will help her when she gets to college.
If anyone is curious, I have an Associate’s Degree in Secondary Education, a Bachelor’s Degree in History and a MBA. I am very happy with the materials they provide because it is so much more involved and thorough than the brick and mortar provides.
Donna
November 7th, 2009
11:57 am
I am the President of Georgia Families for Public Virtual Education. I took on this responsibility because I have a son with three illnesses and he was falling through the cracks in the brick and mortar school system. I want my son to become a responsible and productive adult and if he had stayed in the regular school this would never have happened. Public Virtual Education is not for everyone and we don’t say that it is. You should have the right for your child to learn the best way that they can. My son is making high grades now where as he was falling in the regular school. GVA was and still is a God send to our family as it is for many others. Not only special needs children but also gifted children need this. If you as a parent are not willing to get in there and work hard right along side of your child then this is not for you and your child. I firmly believe that all children should be treated for their needs whether it be special needs, gifted needs or just regular children. Our school doesn’t cost your family one red penny and if you have a problem with teaching your child along with some wonderful teachers than this is not for you. We have a great curriculum and we are a great school and if we all work together it will only get better. This is not only my opinion but that of many other parents who love this school and are willing to work hard for their child. Thank you GVA and the whole staff for the support and the care you have for our children.
drew (former teacher)
November 7th, 2009
12:02 pm
Edge, you are correct, but in these days of “no child left behind” political correctness, very few schools have the means or desire to address the problems you describe. My experience in education has led me to believe that most schools could perform their job quite admirably if they could simply rid themselves of the 10% or so of students who have neither the desire or the discipline necessary to “do school”.
Those parents who feel that the environment of their local brick and mortar public schools is not conducive to learning (i.e., lack of discipline, crowded, bad teachers etc.), should feel blessed that they’ve got this option.
And all those calling for “vouchers” just need to hop on board, because this is basically a voucher program that pays for your child’s education. The catch is that your home is the “school” and “you” are the teacher. I wish this had been around ten years ago, when I had to foot the bill for my daughter’s home schooling. Anyone that’s home-schooling their child should be thrilled with this option, and they’d be crazy not to take advantage of it.
Mike
November 7th, 2009
12:35 pm
I think Pam, the mother and the child should all craw into a bubble and live happily ever after.
If your public school is not right for you or your child
A. Get involved and do something about it
B. Make enough money to send your child to the school of your choice
C. Move.
D. Shut up.
Public school mom
November 7th, 2009
12:47 pm
If parents want to home school or virtual school their children that is certainly their right. But never, never ask the taxpayers to pay for it until every bricks and mortar school in the state is in perfect condition, all public school teachers (and I mean warm body, in person teachers) are adequately educated, trained and paid, all the trailers are gone and every student has a seat in a real classroom, and the DOE has a really big surplus of money..
Until that happens, parents who want this option should simply pay for a private company to educate their children.
I can see limited exceptions for children confined for long periods of time due to illness or some type of disability or in instances where a school does not have sufficient resources or students to justify offering a special course such as certain AP or IB courses..
zoe
November 7th, 2009
12:57 pm
GaVS (the school run by the DOE) is a great option for students that want to get ahead or take AP classes not offered at the home school. It is well worth the money, especially now that most middle schools are not allowing 8th graders to take Math I. The claim is the new “honors” math “supposedly” prepares students for taking AP Calculus as seniors and instead of taking Math IV their senior year, students on the Honors Math track will take Calc. IMO, if your child seriously wants to go to Georgia Tech, MIT or Cal Tech- I would consider having him/her take a math class over the summer through GaVS. I know when my daughter is old enough, if her school system still isn’t allowing students to take Math I in the 8th grade, we will be signing her up to take it though GaVS, that way she can take Honors Math II her freshman year in High School. Also, if I am not mistaken the EOCT and AP scores for most classes offered in GaVS are actually much better than the state average, not as Maureen said about the same as the state average. GaVs is really for self motivated students though since work is due weekly, not daily and if student has a tendency to procrastinate, it can hurt on Thursday night when things are due.
ATL parent
November 7th, 2009
1:29 pm
@Mike—amen brother.
Badger
November 7th, 2009
1:51 pm
Basically it comes down to low income, non-working moocher parents(mostly of the non white persuasion demanding they get the same that a working involved parent gets. I say no-way. I work hard for my child to have what they have. I don’t want your mooching child or you around at all. I especially don’t want my tax dollars paying for you.
Jan
November 7th, 2009
3:23 pm
@ScienceTeacher671
Those were indeed the good old days. But the Archdiocese of Atlanta decided about 10 years ago that a Catholic education was no longer a mission of the church and that parents needed to pay for the cost of their child’s education. There is still a small church subsidy (I believe about 9% as compared to upto 75% for Catholic schools in the midwest and northeast) for all active Catholic families. And the multi-child discount was discontinued. It drove several very active and stauchly Catholic families from our parish school. There is also limited financial aid, but you need to be very poor to get it. But I have no regrets about sending them to Catholic school; my kids are worth the sacrifice.
Caleb
November 7th, 2009
3:59 pm
Meanwhile our government wastes money on video games.
http://hegesonic.blogspot.com/2009/11/game-review-layoff-by-tiltfactor.html
Momto 4
November 7th, 2009
4:25 pm
Badger, I pay taxes for your child to go to school, that is not the issue. In fact, all the parents of GVA children I know are homeowner’s paying taxes. Quit judging people without really knowing what you’re talking about.
Renee Lord
November 7th, 2009
4:34 pm
Georgia Virtual Academy has been a wonderful choice for my family. My children receive a world class education using K12’s tried and proven curriculum. It is the perfect fit for my family but certainly not every family. Choosing to enroll in GVA requires a large commitment of time from the learning coach (parent) but certainly not the amount of time required to homeschool a student.
I am thankful Georgia has provided this option for students and families.
S White
November 7th, 2009
5:26 pm
Badger – I’m of a “non-white persuasion” and I don’t have any children. Yet I’m a homeowner, which means my tax dollars are paying for your child to go to school. So who’s really the “moocher parent”?
Get a life!
Linda
November 7th, 2009
6:19 pm
Any schooling associated with the government will be tainted. Get off the dole and pull your kids out of public school programs of all types. Homeschool or private school… those are the responsible choices. The government wants to dumb your kids down.
Badger's conscience
November 7th, 2009
7:17 pm
Badger–why so much hate—you give white people a bad name.
Sarge
November 7th, 2009
7:22 pm
Juju, I hope you’re not serious. Being around other people is what education is all about…learning to interact, on various levels, with the world. Very true, there are some (unfortunately, a great deal more than some) who, by their very presence, impede the learning process. The answer, the ONLY answer, lies in removing the “impeder”, not the rest of the class. This is one of the failings of public education; what has turned public ed into nothing more than a tax-subsidized babysitting service. It’s a broken record, however…the day teachers are allowed to COMMAND the classroom will be the beginning of real educational improvement.
John Henry
November 7th, 2009
7:23 pm
Hey Badger—I am of the white persuasion, I am probably considered high income, I am a working parent who is involved and I also work hard for my child to have what they have. Guess what–I do not want my child going to school with yours. I don’t want my tax dollars paying for children of idiot’s like you.
James Highland
November 7th, 2009
8:44 pm
K12 Inc. is notorious for misleading the parents. The program sounds like a dream and then you realize you are in your own nightmare. This is pure homeschooling with a help desk. The parent is not a coach; the parent is the teacher and it takes hours to meet the restrictive requirements of the program on their schedule. Most students don’t last more than 2-3 years because the parents begin to lose their minds with the amount of work that is required to complete this program. Why a state is paying taxpayer dollars for homeschooling is a mystery to me. I did it for a year, started the second year and then gave up. This is not public education. It is pure homeschooling. Google this company and you’ll find a trail of lawsuits attached to it.
Fed Up In DeKalb
November 7th, 2009
10:39 pm
GVA and K-12 is a much better curriculum than I teach in my B&M School. I have looked into the program thoroughly and it’s top notch. Parents can be in control of their child’s education and ensure that their child actually learns. All information that I have received from GVA and K-12 tells parents that they are their child’s learning coach. It’s spelled out for you. Sounds like this parent didn’t do her homework. I am glad that Georgia has GVA and hope that it gets more options, as our B&M schools are failing our kids. Can’t wait to finish this year of teaching and use GVA for my own son. Our kids deserve better than what most B&M schools are offering them.
jim d
November 8th, 2009
7:10 am
This is what choice is all about. What works for one may not be a fit for another. Point being that that choice should be available just like any other God granted liberty in this nation.
Now lets PO a few folks. Some of y’all(mostly educators) seem to know what is best for everyone–You just need to get over yourselves and let people persue the education for their children that best fills their need. Most parents are quite capable of making those choices. Those that aren’t you may keep in your government controlled schools.
now hagd.
jim d
November 8th, 2009
7:11 am
Mo, got one hung at 7:11
GVA Mom
November 8th, 2009
8:26 am
I think some of these parents seem to have unrealistic expectations from the GVA experience. You can’t expect to receive your supplies, set your child in front of a computer, and walk away. If you expect your child to learn in a home environment, you are going to have to work with them.
I have two children in GVA. They work with a wonderful curriculum and excellent teachers. As their learning coach, I have the opportunity to guide their experience. I can tailor the lessons to meet my children’s individual learning style ands I can make sure that they have a proper understanding of the material. GVA is not for every family but, it is a wonderful option for those who are willing to put forth the effort.
Janet W
November 8th, 2009
9:44 am
Another GVA mom here – we’ve been in it since it started and love it. I was a homeschooler before so it wasn’t a big adjustment for us. I can understand it would be a big change for someone who had sent their child to a B&M school before. I have to agree that Cobb mom must not have been paying much attention at the Q&A sessions if she was unaware of her responsibilities in going with GVA.
Public School Mom – in case you are unaware – all property owners pay school tax. My husband and I have paid tens of thousands of dollars into our county system and none of our children have ever set foot in one of the public schools (nor will they). Why shouldn’t our kids have access to the same tax-payer funded education that your kids get?
The success of GVA and the demand for educational options (like online school and vouchers) is another serious indictment of the dismal failure of the entire public school system in the US, but that’s another topic.
Janet W
November 8th, 2009
9:52 am
Also @James Highland – you mention that most students don’t last more than 2-3 years in GVA because it is too much work. Since GVA has just started it’s third year, I don’t understand what students you could be talking about.
It’s true that GVA is not the right choice for everyone. Catholic school is not the right choice for everyone. Public school is most certainly not the right choice for everyone. A variety of educational options and opportunities *is* the right choice for everyone.
Sally Harrell
November 8th, 2009
2:18 pm
I have two children (grades 3 & 4) enrolled in GVA and I am glad to have it as an educational option. The description I got of GVA prior to enrolling never led me to believe that someone else would be teaching my kids — I knew it would be me. A virtual school for a 4th grader cannot be compared to a virtual school for a college student. That being said, GVA has not been without it’s problems, but virtual education is uncharted territory and the administration of the school does seem to be improving somewhat as they get more experience under their belt.
I took my kids out of the B & M schools because they weren’t learning enough and I could not enrich their educations at home after school because there was too much (not challenging) homework. GVA’s curriculum (provided by a private company called “K12″) is extremely rich and challenging. It would cost me thousands of dollars to buy it on the private market, and I like that I’m getting something for the tens of thousands of dollars I’ve paid in school taxes.
That being said, I think meaningful discussion should focus on (1) funding for virtual education — kudos to the State Education Board for slowing this one down. Virtual education should not cost as much as B & M education, so GVA should not get the same amount of funding as other charter schools. Perhaps competition in the marketplace should help set the price. Hopefully parents won’t take the dangling carrot of more language and music courses and end up putting more of our scarce, public education dollars into the hands of a private company. Also, taking money from local districts (HB881) will not help in establishing meaningful partnerships with virtual students and their local schools. Image if we could participate in our local school’s extracurricular activities, or take the CRCT at our local elementary school (or not take the CRCT but some other nationalized achievement test instead)! (2) Education choice should include choice in curriculum. The problem with Georgia’s CRCT is it tests how well the curriculum is aligned with the test, just as much as it tests if the students are learning what they need. GVA’s curriculum is taught in a different order than the Georgia Performance Standards, so grade level content does not always line up. Right now GVA is bending over backwards trying to keep the State Education Department happy, and it’s jeopardizing the quality and content of the education they are providing. This could be their downfall, and it would be a state imposed downfall. Legislators (and I used to be one) need to look beyond CRCT scores when determining if this program is worthy of continued funding.
Janice
November 8th, 2009
5:36 pm
After looking at the GVA website one time, I was able to ascertain that it was a “home school” program. Apparently, this mom in question just wants someone to blame for her lack of attention. After her description, I am even more interested in the program! It sounds great!
Maureen Downey
November 8th, 2009
6:59 pm
Jimd, I was out of town but you are now a free man.
Maureen
Nicole
November 8th, 2009
8:36 pm
So…seriously…this mother thought that she could just keep her daughter home..and set her in front of the computer, and wahala? school is taken care of? she didn’t realize whether it was homeschooling or not, that she would in essence be the main teacher? Thats just a complete lack of common sense. I mean..seriously, the child was suppose to sit in front of the computer and be responsible for school all on her own, along with a teacher over the phone? sounds to me like the mother needs some classes as well..parenting classes! I realize that public schools are becoming less and less ideal. With parents becoming more and more lazy in the parenting department and teachers becoming less and less sociable it will only get worse. But I would never ever in anyway..no matter what something said, assume that I could sit my child in front of a computer and expect her to learn anything without me being the main person to coach, guide or teach her. Yes…no matter how you spin it..it is homeschooling..she is at home..doing school work, just because a computer is there along with a phone does not make it anything else other than homeschool.
Susan C
November 9th, 2009
1:29 am
I’m a GVA parent, and love the school. This parent sounds like she didn’t do her homework. I’ve been with GVA for the entire 2 years they’ve been “open.” My daughter loves working at home, and I love teaching her. We’ll stay with GVA until she either graduates from it, or they add highschool to it.
I love that she’s challenged. I love that I have a certified teacher at my disposal to get ideas from when my daughter hits a wall in her learning.
We can’t please everyone all the time.
Cyndi
November 9th, 2009
7:10 am
I coach my daughter through GVA & none of the experiences expressed by this mother were ones I had when I enrolled, nor am I having now. It was made very clear to me that GVA isn’t homeschooling per se, but that I am a learning coach for my child who has an assigned teacher who is available via cell phone & K-mail, (A private e-mail environment) for questions & concerns. My daughter’s teacher also monitors progress.
I think if GVA was a sham, it wouldn’t have 5,000 students enrolled.
I do think that there is room for miscommunication (as in every situation) & that not all teachers are cut from the same cloth. (My daughter’s teacher is not at all like the teacher profiled in this story.)
I hope the mother talked with Principal Arkin about the situation to prevent any future problems like this from arising.
My daughter is thriving with GVA’s K-12 curriculum & we hope to continue with this format for as long as we can.
Singing to the Choir
November 9th, 2009
7:55 am
I too have checked into GVA and found the curriculum more robust than what is currently offered in Public School. The math follows a more traditional approach. After reading the blogs I think it is important to remember our children are not one size fits all and we need different approaches. GVA obviously works for many children, but is not the answer for all children. BTW, I know several children from Queen of Angels that were below grade level for GVA. I’m sure you can find examples where all schools seem to have failed the child. You have to find the correct fit.
jim d
November 9th, 2009
8:18 am
thanks mo
cobb mother
November 9th, 2009
11:10 am
Now, that all of you homeschoolers have tried to slam me. Let me respond. First to Matt Arkin, I called you numerous times, you never responded to my calls. Not once. I did do my research. I asked numerous questions and I specifically asked if it was homeschooling and I was told that no it was not Homeschooling. I also made it very clear that I was not a Homeschooler and did not attend to homeschool. I was looking for in a virtual school the lessons to be done over the internet in realtime. The teacher to be available in realtime. Why can Charter have a customer service person available via Chat in realtime and you can not?
My Child was at one school her entire life, at which we had no problems. Until her father decided he would no longer pay his child support, in a timely manner. Not everyone can stay at home an homeschool their children all day and do nothing else. People do not have those options. People were told at the meeting that I attended that they could be working or doing other things while their children were doing the lessons via the virtual school.
Yes my daughter is currently in the Public School I am zoned to because, I had no choice, when we withdrew from GVA. While she is a straight A student. We have to contend with poor behavior and lack of discipline of other students. There needs to be discipline in the public schools.
The only way that everyone will benefit is for school vouchers to be approved for everyone. That way for those of you who want to homeschool your child fine. I can also pay for a Catholic or Private School. We need to call this Virtual School what it is, glorified Homeschooling. It is not an interactive Computer learning environment.
Talk to the Hand
November 9th, 2009
11:50 am
It sounds to me the parent thought she could plug her little robot-er child into the computer for eight hours a day and not have to lift a finger herself. Having said that I am also in favor of vouchers. Not every parent is cut out to home school their children. And not every child is cut out for public schools. Some of them need the extra structure that a private school can offer. Face it public schools have to permit bad behavior because little Johnny’s parents will sue the school district, if somebody corrects his bad behavior. After all doing so will hurt his little Psyche and scar him for life. PC at it’s finest you know.
jumimama
November 9th, 2009
12:08 pm
@SingingtotheChoir Your post shows where you are getting your information from. The K12 curriculum does NOT match traditional grade levels. When students use the placement test to get into K12, it’s almost guaranteed that they will test in below grade level. That’s how they sell people on using their program.
Christian GVA
November 9th, 2009
1:59 pm
(Great comments, except for the racists ones)
GVA parents really explained this well in these commetns. I think the CDC mom is going through a tough time and I wish she had not taken her personal frustration out into the public where it can be misconstrued and used to stop a good program that serves other families better than it did hers.
We have spent a lot of our money on a GREAT Catholic school for the last 6 years and don’t regret a dime. But as they don’t focus on gifted and challenged students we gave GVA – HOME SCHOOLING a try this year. The program and the curriculum has been top notch, the web application and conference is great. The work load for my wife (with a baby always interrupting) has been a challenge, but is drawing our family closers together. She is working very hard to make this work for our kids.
GVA has great events and we have joined Home School groups for sports and clubs. This is not for everyone. It might not be for us next year – but CHOICE is the key. I do feel the public school monopoly could be manipulated to push an agenda and culture on my children that I do not agree with. Everyone has different needs and we should all work to find a solution that meets all of the various kinds of Georgia families’ needs. Vouchers would be great. Hybrids could be good.
Options are great – thanks GVA, K-12, and the great state of Georgia for this choice for our family.
Alan Cook
November 9th, 2009
3:45 pm
National math test scores continue to be disappointing. This poor trend persists in spite of new texts, standardized tests with attached implied threats, or laptops in the class. At some point, maybe we should admit that math, as it is taught currently and in the recent past, seems irrelevant to a large percentage of grade school kids.
Why blame a sixth grade student or teacher trapped by meaningless lessons? Teachers are frustrated. Students check out.
The missing element is reality. Instead of insisting that students learn another sixteen formulae, we need to involve them in tangible life projects. And the task must be interesting.
Project-oriented math engages kids. It is fun. They have a reason to learn the math they may have ignored in the standard lecture format of a class room.
Alan Cook
info@thenumberyard.com
http://www.thenumberyard.com
Doty Wells
November 9th, 2009
11:08 pm
I have read these posts and can completely understand many of the points of view expressed here. Let me first state that I am a GVA parent and learning coach. Our family has and is sacrificing a great deal to allow me to stay at home to school my children. Presently, the B&M my children are zoned for is less than desireable as my child function above grade level. I do have a 6th grader and a student who is in kindergarten. Both of my children learn in different ways and it has been different this year with have my kindergartener home. We are a type of homeschool program, but our children must take and pass the CRCTs like other Georgia students. I LOVE the K12 cirriculum and DO NOT like the fact that the state is having the GVA jump through hoops to please the State’s Department of Education. Needless to say, I feel if the teachers were allowed to teach instead of teaching to test we would be in a better situation in the rankings of education. I do believe in public education, but feel it is not the best for my family per se atleast were we currently reside in the district were we live. Another limitation that I have is that I have two gifted children and I can be allowed some flexibility to allow them to move ahead in the cirriculum were we need to for each of my children. If they were in the local B&M, they would be stifled as everyone has to be on the same page at the same pace from my experience. I am a proud GVA parent and we have weathered the storm as we all adjust to meet the state mandates. I am glad that we have this opportunity in which to educate our children. Virtual education is not for everyone and it is a time commitment. What works for one family is not a cookie cutter view for every family. Also, sometimes I have to change things up and adapt to my children’s needs on that specific day. At some point, I do intend to return to work. Hopefully, the mold by grade will be nonexistant or we can find a school that will challenge our children. Time will tell what is to become; however, I wish and hope that virtual education is here to stay for the state of Georgia. We have long been in the dark ages in respect to educating our children. Please let us embrace this movement at some level and remain moving forward instead of backwards.
Pam
November 10th, 2009
12:14 am
Mike, why are you so threatened when I tell Cobb Mother that she will have a target painted on her back for pointing out problems that she had with the Virtual School? She was torn to shreds here.
Cobb Mother, it seems that Matt Arkin is very quick to answer questions. He has a very impressive response time here. Maybe the next parent with an issue needs to say they are from the AJC.
JulieB
November 10th, 2009
12:49 am
I, too, am a Cobb mom who is a GVA learning coach. I have been since the school opened. My daughter has signficant special needs that were NOT addressed at her brick & mortar school. GVA immediately gave her the therapies that the B&M school had already identified were needed but refused to give. And she is in a safe environment (our home), which was not the case at her B&M placement. Because my daughter has been receiving an awesome curriculum, the attention of a one-on-one adult who is focused on her educational needs (me) with the backing of dedicated, certified teachers who we can access whenever she needs, she is thriving educationally like never before. Friends, family and her doctors are all commenting how much improvement they’ve seen since we began GVA.
I’m not sure how Cobb Mother could mis-interpret what GVA was. I asked all kinds of questions before we signed on. Yes, I had hoped that a teacher would actually show up at my door (or our computer) for the majority of the day, but how realistic is that on the very little money that is allocated here in GA to educate our children? If a local school district, that is drawing local property taxes in addition to state dollars, can’t give individual children individual teacher attention (in fact the AJC just reported this week that most are taking the state’s allowance to make their class sizes even larger), then how could GVA on only a fraction of what local schools receive, give our children individual access to a full-time teacher? It was never a question in my mind that I would be doing quite a bit of the heavy lifting in my daughter’s education.
We have sacrificed greatly for my daughter to be in GVA. We’ve become a single income family, are scraping by trying to pay college tuition on one while allowing me to stay home with this daughter. Being my daughter’s full-time learning coach is by far the hardest job I’ve ever had (never mind that I don’t get paid). But the honest truth is that given the conditions of our B&M schools and what they couldn’t/wouldn’t do for my daughter, it is truly the old adage “If you want something done right, do it yourself.” And with GVA’s awesome curriculum and teachers at our disposal, it’s like doing it ourselves…with major supports.
I, for one, hope K-12 is profiting on their venture in GA. GVA is one of their fastest growing virtual schools ever. If they don’t make a profit (that is why businesses operate), then they won’t stay. I know parents in other states who use their state’s virtual schools with K-12 curriculum. And, because of better funding, these schools do have art, music and foreign language as a part of their curriculum. In some states computers are issued for the children along side textbooks. And in KS, the amount of oversight and administrative hoops the learning coaches is very minimal according to a friend whose daughter is enrolled there. I find it a bit ironic that the states with more “hands-off” approaches to their virtual schools seem to also be states that rank higher in quality of public education and in test scores. What does that say about Georgia?
E
November 10th, 2009
1:54 pm
It really looks like the program is accurately described. Children’s results and needs will differ in this or any other program. Even with normal homeschooling, some parents are still able to run errands, work at home, etc. I was homeschooled for a while – I went with my mother to the fitness center in the morning, did one subject’s work then did part of her exercise routine with her. Part of the time we were elsewhere, or she was available on the phone or whatever, and part of the time she helped – the state’s curriculum just never took that long, so in the subjects I wanted to continue past normal requirements, I returned to school able to fill in many AP/ college classes. Really, many children can easily do the ‘hard’ chapters when you are there, or ask you a question when they need without a direct 100% stare over their shoulder. I would have been glad to have such a virtual program at that point in time. Every student is going to be different, but I don’t think it was inaccurate to think many parents wouldn’t have to do ‘everything’. Coaching, answering questions, etc. is a long way from having to set up the curriculum, do all the basic teaching (even when the child has no questions), grade work, etc. I’d think you would have to be around even if the computer could beam everything into her head at that age.
CMo4
November 10th, 2009
2:12 pm
I am also a GVA parent with two children in the program. I have a BS in Education, and a Masters in Math and Reading Ed and certified to teach in GA. I pulled my children out of their school last year because I was tired of the teasing, and administrators that didn’t want to be bothered to discipline problem children or teachers. My kids and I love this program. They are doing well, and love being home with me as their learning coach.
I cannot imagine how any parent can start this program and not know it is a home study program, and dependent on parent involvement. I knew before I even applied for the lottery that I would be schooling my children with the help of a certified teacher. I knew I would be doing most of the daily teaching, with weekly eSessions online. I knew that there would be tons of opportunities for field trips and outings. I am at a complete loss as to how this mom wasn’t aware of the specifics of the program. GVA has always been up front.
Both of my children are in the Advanced Learners Program and will be starting Spanish lessons soon through GVA. My 2nd grader has already completed the first semester of math. My kids are flourishing with this program.
This program certainly isn’t for those who think they can sit their kid in front of a computer screen all day. If that is what you are looking for, you will be disappointed. This program is for parents who want to be involved in their child’s education.
Dorothy
November 23rd, 2009
12:48 pm
I can understand her frustration with public schools. I can honestly say the term they don’t make them like they used to applies. There are far too many teachers that over worked, under paid, & just plain burnt out teaching. They are dealing with unruly children that have parents who just don’t care. They have the attitude of he’s your problem while school not mine so deal with it & don’t bother me about my kid again because I pay my taxes. I am a parent that uses Florida’s virtual schooling & I can honestly say it has been a great thing. My daughter was bullied in public school last year for months. I had many letters, phone conversations, & meetings with her teacher & administration at the school. They just didn’t seem to care & did next to nothing to prevent any further incidents. She would come home with bruises & her grades dropped. I offered to volunteer in the classroom & even tried to talk with the school department about issues in the school only to find myself turned away. The school complains that parents are involved anymore but when I tried to be involved I was not welcomed. During a meeting with the school’s principal & discussing home schooling as an option for next year he actually told me that would be much better than keeping her in his school. His concern was that his teachers have to spend so much time on discipline that a child whose is bright & advanced like my daughter would suffer greatly. Since using the virtual school my daughter is back to a straight “A” student & her self esteem has been restored. Not all children using the virtual school are problem kids. Some are using it to avoid the problem kids & teachers that just can’t afford to care enough to help anymore.
Virtual schooling has also been a great option for our state. Florida has a very serious problem with over crowding in the classrooms. Our county found it to be a far cheaper option to use the virtual school versus building enough schools to ease the problem. We currently have schools designed for 700-800 students with current enrollment of 1200-1300 students. The children are being made to eat outside directly in the hot Florida sun uncovered because there is no room in the cafeteria.
As for this mom in the story I think the problem is she did not take the time to educate herself on this choice. Her expectations from a virtual school is a little bit unrealistic. If the Georgia version is like the Florida version the virtual school makes it crystal clear that you are the learning coach & the teacher is there more like an assistant to the learning coach. It was very clear that it was home schooling & very clear what is expected. I find it hard to believe that she did as much research as she claims she did & still didn’t know what the program entails. No matter what school your child goes to it is going to require some participation from the parent. If you are not willing to participate in your child’s school or would like to participate as little as possible then stop complaining.
sarah h
December 16th, 2009
12:48 pm
I have 2 children in GVA. The program is time consuming which I feel this parent either did not want to spend the time or could not spend the time. I never took Algebra in school so I depend on GVA to teach this subject well enough for my children to learn. I am learning it with them and I have had to call the teacher several times with some furthur instructions. She went as far as having an extra class or two going over the assignments. Now, GVA started title 1 which goes even furthur. The parents really are there as support but not as the teachers. I could not teach something I never had. Both my children are making good grades without me understanding all the steps myself. Isn’t that what teachers do? This parent I feel didn’t not give the program a chance. If her daughter is already a straight A student then the parent shouldn’t have to put alot of effort in making sure her child understands the program. I do agree however that a voucher should be given so the Ga students have more of a choice on what school to attend. But, putting down one school for that option of choice is poor judgement in my opionion.