Robert P. Moses: We tolerate a “sharecropper’s education”

But a Constitutional Amendment declaring all children will have a RIGHT to the same education??

I guess we will then have a surfeit of doctors and lawyers

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ooops–My bad !!

We already have a surfeit of lawyers AND politicans—thats what is wrong with education today.

I can see it now—everyone gets the same dumbed down education so as to avoid filling the courts with constitutional rights cases.

This is a plan that is sure to work.

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I was in a 6th grade remedial math class this morning during Academic Support. I watched a 6th grader counting with her fingers before raising her hand to ask a question. When I went to her, she proclaimed, “You can’t multiply 7 and 8. It’s impossible.” I wish I could say that her lack of basic knowledge is an exception…but that isn’t the truth any more.

How on earth can you begin to teach algebra when kids are arriving in middle school without even knowing their multiplication tables?

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1. Mr. Moses left out an important participant in his “conversation”, the parent(s). Although many students thrive without adequate parental support, it makes the odds of them reaching reasonable goals much more problematic.
2. Regardless of his ability to reach many students in Algebra, much too much time and resources are wasted on subjects that will never be utilized by the great majority of students to any meaningful extent in everyday life if at all. It would be far more productive spending that time writing (see this paragraph), reading, learning consumer issues that face graduates “every” day of their lives, or computer skills including keyboarding (touch typing) that they will use daily at home and work. Spend the time and educational resources for advanced subjects on students who exhibit the ability and drive to benefit from the higher levels of math and science. Mr. Moses thinks every student should be given the education to make them a scientist, mathematician, etc and that’s a destructive concept for the educational system as a whole. It short changes most of the student population that could be engaged in far more productive academic activities and ultimately leads to increased drop out rates. Every student having access to a quality education is one thing, but having subject matter that a short sighted administrator or supposed academic deems necessary for a quality education shoved down the student’s proverbial throat is another. Having these experts justify their existence by pushing the next great unrealistic program is one of our greatest obstacles to education today.

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Algebra is a basic part of a quality education, as truly learning your math facts, understanding graphing, … These are not considered any form of higher level learning, but basic building blocks in education and brain development. These simple skills are required to successfully run a business or learn a skilled trade, as well as to move onto higher level learning. Without it, your child only qualifies for an unskilled trade or washing pans in the back of a fast-food joint.

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SAE—-you left out “owning and operating their own business”

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A constitutional amendment of this nature would basically mean lots of nebulous lawsuits over the definition and extra costs for the education systems. I hope the goal of Mr. Moses is to raise awareness of educational issues rather than actually advocating a senseless change to the constitution.

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@jim d
The man said “every child in this country is a child of this country and is entitled to a quality public school education.” He said “quality” not the “same.”
@Public school mom
Here’s a great opportunity to research how Mr. Moses in a nuts and bolts fashion went into the classroom himself. If this man is able to implement a system that can be duplicated and if its successful in turning around students that have become disenchanted/lost that’s great. Something needs to be done preferably sooner than later. I would agree engaged parents are absolutely necessary to the equation.

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“Moses wants to discuss why we tolerate failing schools and he doesn’t want to dwell on what students do wrong.”

Are you kidding me? How many times will it take before there is a serious discussion on the student’s role in his/her education? Stop pointing the finger at the school systems and society as a whole and look the children of these failing schools straight in the eye and give them the honest truth about how their efforts and work ethics in the classroom will affect them for their entire life.

I agree with Moses. There is unequal education, but it’s not because of some unequal education conspiracy towards poor and minority students. There’s an unequal education because aging civil rights leaders such as him continue to point the finger towards society as a whole without having the courage to have a candid discussion with the poor and minority students he is hoping to serve.

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@ algebra as a gate
How is algebra denied to poor, non-white students?

If there is some big conspiracy, which do you think non-poor whites fear more? A minority with an education working AND contributing to society, or a non-algebra fluent minority point a gun sideways-gangsta style demanding their money?

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@ Clueless

Not 100% certain around the exact language within the Georgia Constitution, however the issue is around the wording… Moses is asking for a “quality public school education” not a “equal opportunity public school education.”

There’s a big difference between equal opportunities and equal outcomes.

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“Moses has another injustice in his sights: unequal education.”

1. a : not of the same measurement, quantity, or number as another b : not like or not the same as another in degree, worth, or status.

Unless I’m mistaken the only true measure would be in outcomes of the student, not the efforts of the teacher.

That being said, one would expect a lot of legal cases claiming since the outcomes were different that the teachers had failed to provide that which would be set forth in a constitutional amendment.(an equal education)

Yes we are all equal only thing is some are more equal than others. (just a fact of life)

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“Come on let’s face it, a ghetto education’s basic
A most a the youths them waste it
And when them waste it, that’s when them take da guns and replace it
Then them don’t stand a chance at all”

-Damian Marley

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Singing to the choir, I completely understand your point about the new math being hard to teach but can you clarify how your sister’s school did not “prepare her” for an ivy league school when she managed to get accepted? The school clearly prepared her to get accepted although it sounds like the ivy league school in question should have a better screening process for applicants if your sister subsequently felt it was too hard after getting in.

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Maureen-I’ve got to say I’m with Dekalb Conservative on this one. There are huge discrepencies within states and counties for that matter.
If someone has the time (I don’t), look up
*which schools make AYP and which ones don’t
*which schools have the majority of students who meet and exceed expectations on tests and which ones have a majority who do not meet expectations
*which schools have higher graduation rates
*which schools have higher rates of students being accepted to colleges
*which schools have higher rates of students GRADUATING from college
Please don’t look at GPAs because an A at one school is not an A at another. My point is that if we look at this from a national perspective, our individual students will still be overlooked. We MUST address discrepencies with states, counties, and schools.

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Why it it that this piece of crap newspaper never passes on an opportunity to race bait here in Atlanta? Nice headline today on “Racial bias in suspensions” but no facts in the article to substantiate. Just an opportunity to give some people who want to holler discrimination their 15 minutes of fame – what a pathetic organization.

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More entitlements? That’ll fix everything . . . .

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Jim D at 11:56,

You beat me to the punch. But you left out the part where the guy is going to make the horse drink the water. It’s so easy to talk about what YOU’RE going to do to MAKE the students better. Yeah, like you have ‘control’ over their learning! It’s so easy because you expect the students to value what you’re teaching. But what if they don’t value what you’re teaching? The “average” ( and I’m not sure if I even know what that is anymore!) preteen/teenager lives for right NOW. What we’re teaching is for the FUTURE. For many of them, the future is the football game this coming Friday. We don’t have that type of influence. That’s what the parents are for. As, I think, Freddie Prinz used to say, “That’s not my job, man!”

All anyone can do is YOUR best. Make today the day you’re going to do the best teaching job you’ve ever done. Kids that WANT to learn will pick up your enthusiasm and will get involved.in the lesson. As I said earlier, you can lead the horse to water… that’s ALL you can do, but that’s exactly what they DO pay us for.

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I know I’m going to get slammed for this but here it goes. Please keep responses pithey but appropriate.
For starters this organization should work to abolish corporal punishment in schools in the 20 states that allow it. Talk about a disparity. 30 states don’t hit kids in schools, and 20 states do.

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Terry – 30 states need to re-institute corporal punishment. It’s the only consequence most kids actually respond to. How many cronic mis-behaving kids do you think care about their grades dropped or getting some free time off for suspension? Even detention/in-school suspension is good because they don’t have to do or learn anything, just hang out.

As to the definition of “entitled to a quality education”, I hope he means equality of inputs. Meaning every school system should have the same teacher qualifications and resources like books/computers. You can not guarantee the kids will learn though, no matter what the government provides.

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ugaaccountant – what you state is a tad disingenious. Most children respond very well to positive behavior supports if implemented correctly. There is absolutely zero that says this method is working. In the states that continue with this practice, the disparities in achievement are glaringly apparent.

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Terry – I am not being disengenious. I can speak to personal experience. Corporal punishment worked for me as opposed to other kinds of discipline. Let’s not get dragged down in that argument though cause we’re probably just complete opposite opinions here.

I’m not sure what you mean by positive behavior supports? If you mean rewards for doing good, yes that of course does work to varying degrees depending on how well it’s implemented. But you aren’t implying that it can completely change people’s inherent nature to break the rules are you? But there will still always be kids who break the rules and some kind of punishment or deterent is still needed. We all can argue until we’re blue in the face on what kind of punishment or deterent.

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The difference between Robert Moses and some of the people who criticize him like DeKalb Conservative and V is that Moses has gone into those classrooms and made differences to his students. People like DC and V just talk and deny there is anything wrong and try to keep those people in their places.

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Reality 2,

You can’t “entitle” your way to a better life. An entitlement implies that something must be given to someone–regardless of whether or not they’ve earned it. If they haven’t earned it, it must be provided for them by someone else.

This sounds an awful lot like FDRs second Bill of Rights. Take a look:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation (Interesting. I wonder who will provide these magical jobs.)

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation
(We should have a right to recreation? Well, I suppose all of the people on welfare with cable TV, DVD players, and cell phones would agree.)

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living (What about the law of supply and demand? It’s apparently null and void here.)

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad (Unfair competition? What exactly is that? I wonder how the NFL would look if they were regulated in the same way.)

The right of every family to a decent home (Provided by . . . ?)

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health (Provided by . . . ?)

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment (Protection from old age? Sickness? ACCIDENTS?! I never knew that FDR was really just Jesus in disguise.)

The right to a good education (And, once again, provided by . . . ?)

You see, Reality 2, entitlements sound all well and good. However, at the end of the day, someone has to pay the piper. Unfortunately, that someone is increasingly becoming those with money. Right now it is the qualified rich–the very people Obama wants to mine to fund his healthcare reform–but soon it will spread to America’s vast middle class. Either way, entitling people to ANYTHING requires that you extort it from someone else. Layman call that stealing. Or, as Margaret Thatcher said, “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.”

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@Old Physics Teacher – yes I have read similar studies where too much of ‘improper’ positive reinforcement can be a negative in the long run. I like to use ’strategic’ positive reinforcement at home.

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From what I’ve seen, teachers who are successful with upperclass, upper level students frequently don’t do well with lower level and/or lower class students. And vice versa.

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No, it doesn’t require any force. The district just needs to include the language in the contract. If you don’t like it, then move to another district. I suppose the district can include a note about the reason for your quitting as resistance to serve underpriviledged students.

Rich kids haven’t earned qulaity education, either, but everyone who pays school tax contributes to their education. So, why is it that they are entitled to quality education using someo ther people’s money but not the poor one.

Actually, having so many teachers quit might be a good way to accelerate the teacher quality improvement – another blog discussion – as they are often the barrier for improvement.

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Reality 2: AMEN!
Those of us who just happened to be born blessed with all the tools necessary to succeed, including parental support, guaranteed food in our bellies, decent schools to attend, tutors to help when we don’t understand, have NO business ranting about entitlement! We are just lucky. Put us in an environment without all our support and luxuries and we will sink like stones! And because we were BORN into this situation, , we did NOT earn it,we have an obligation not to judge those who were born with nothing but obstacles…we need to get up off our pompous asses and help the less fortunate up. I am not at ALL afraid of educating every single person …competition is good and healthy and NOTHING to be afraid of. Humans are quite resourceful. Holding quality education from the less fortunate just to keep from having too many lawyers and doctors is about the stupidist argument I have ever heard in my entire life!

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Terry- we might as well give up-spankers will never change…it’s just too easy! And…the only consistent argument I hear from the spanking-obsessed supporters is that they got spanked and it didn’t hurt them…it’s such a bogus argument ( endless examples to prove spanking is not necessary or right) that I truly believe these folks just want someone else to get what they got, otherwise, it’s just not fair!

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V- I sure as H hope my child NEVER is subjected to your teaching… I can’t believe that cold, pompous, arrogant crap doesn’t come out in your classroom…

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When that stranger hit the girl who was throwing a tantrum, there were people in the store who thanked him quietly in their mind.

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V- You are a idiot! Privatize schools? Why does eveyone have to rich in your world? If you are not wealthy then you can not afford tuition, if one can not afford tuition, then you do not value education. How rationale is that? How sad for you to judge a parent by how much they can spend on their child. What is worse is that you are a teacher! I pray for any child who enters your classroom, who you deem unworthy of a education. But I will pray even more so for you to leave the classroom. True teachers “serve” ALL children. Finally, the best measure of success is not a child’s background but the effectiveness of the teacher. It is not vice versa, but in your case that would require not being ignorant enough to recognize that fact. Resources makes all the difference. You are woefully ignorant.

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Teach2Educate,

In a true free market economy, where taxes were no longer extorted to pay for social welfare programs, the citizens would have more disposable income. Inevitably, private schools would fill the law of supply and demand–cheaper schools would spring up to serve the lower economic strata, the middle class schools would essentially be public schools charging what was once paid for in taxes, and the current private schools would remain at the top for those who wished to pay a premium. Parents could choose to send their children anywhere, and scholarships would become available to the best and the brightest students regardless of their socioeconomic level.

You said, “Finally, the best measure of success is not a child’s background but the effectiveness of the teacher. It is not vice versa . . . .”

Actually, it is. There are myriad studies that show a child’s conceptual development prior to the age of five is the single largest determining factor of economic success. Any student who enters my classroom has an opportunity, and I extend my hand to all of them. Some choose to take it; some don’t. But it’s always there. I don’t teach at some educational Valhalla. Though my school is considered one of the “good schools” in metro Atlanta, we have plenty of students who come of socioeconomically disadvantaged backgrounds. I couldn’t care less where they come from; they each get the same chance from me.

“I pray for any child who enters your classroom, who you deem unworthy of a education.”

I don’t deem anyone “unworthy of an education.” They deem themselves. The first day I tell them that respect is something to be earned, never given. If they want me to respect them, they will show me by their choice of actions. Again, some do, some don’t.

What a horrible person I must be.

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V,

My answer has already been given. There is no need to redistribute any wealth. We just redistribute resources a school system has equitably. Those resources include teachers, facilities, equipments, etc. It does not cost any extra money. Why would parents of the students in a well-to-do suburb objects to getting teachers who taught last 5 years at inner city schools that didn’t meet the AYP? Maybe they think their children aren’t getting quality teachers.

Moses does not promote “equal” education. He says all children have the right to “quality” education. Rotating teachers is certainly one way to make sure that quality teachers are being shared by children in the district as much as possible.

At that point, people like you will simply move on to private schools or get out of teaching. And we will just move on.

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Terry,

Really??? I guess you can’t be honest to your own feeling…

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V- Respect is a 2 way street. You talk about what you expect from your kids in order for you to respect them…has it occurred to you that you must also earn their respect? The most effective teachers are the ones who earn the respect, therefore attention and effort from their students.

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philosopher,

I practice what I preach. I work hard to be prepared every single day and teach with enthusiasm. I never lash out, and I never lose my cool. In fact, I have very few discipline problems in my classes no matter what type of students I’m teaching. But then, I don’t need to defend myself to you . . .

Reality 2,

Sure, why not shuffle teachers around. While you’re at it, let’s start shuffling other professions around as well. Let’s move talented doctors to poor or rural areas. Let’s make sure that all citizens can benefit from their knowledge. Move lawyers, engineers, scientists, and accountants as well. Oh, wait, they’re not “servants” . . .

Perhaps if you at least threw the teachers you’re talking about a bone in the form of a stipend or raise, maybe you would have a point. But until you eliminate force from the equation, you’re just repeating the same old rhetoric.

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philosopher,

What a world it would be if people could worry about themselves . . . .

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If we worried about ourselves and practiced responsibility and accountability, perhaps we wouldn’t need others to worry about us. You seem focused on selfishness in a negative sense. I’m talking about rational selfishness–i.e., taking care of yourself so others don’t have to and teaching the same to children. We should seek values from our fellow men, trading with them by presenting values of our own. We should not expect them to willingly sacrifice for us for no other reason than they have something we lack. Such thinking has led to the philosophical bankrutpcy of the 20th century.

I take care of myself and my family. I am neither mean nor miserable. In fact, despite what you might believe, I am a pretty laid back and fun person. I don’t ask for handouts, nor do I give them. I donate to the charities I choose because of the values I see in them. I don’t buy more than I can afford, and I don’t live beyond my means. I live my life as a rational egoist. Does this make me a villain?

If you met me on the street, you would find me an affable and pleasant person. Not the Scrooge you seem convinced that I am.

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Guys, lets stop generalizing what people may or may not be like based on their viewpoints posted here. My writing style is very different than my personality and I would assume this applies to most posters on here as well. Having said that, I think the debate on this blog has really shifted into a philosophical one on what the proper role for the government is and how public goods should be funded. Philosopher, as I understand it, you take a more collectivist approach while V, you seem to favor an individualist approach. Each has its reasons and drawbacks and I would happy to explain each in detail later. However, for now, I want to focus on V’s last post.

V, you asked if if I had any ideas so that certain socioeconomic strata are not shackled to other certain socioeconomic strata in the realm of public education. As I see it, there are actually three distinct economic and philosophical issues, here, and how you fall on each largely will determine your views on this public education debate. The first is what is the proper role for the government – what activities should the government be involved in and what should it not. Pure libertarians want no government, which as I have showed, is really not logical because the real world is not perfect as economic theory assumes. Pure Collectivists would want government in everything, which also probably would not be a very good idea for easy to see reasons. Let’s assume we have decided that public education is a worthwhile government endeavor (and I truly believe it is for economic and social reasons).

This then brings us into two fundamentally important questions, both of which pertain to resources. How should the government be funded? The second is how should the government distribute the resources it has collected? For now, let’s focus on the first issue.

Almost all governments have to be funded by taxes in some way or form (with the exception of some Middle Eastern governments that have enormous oil revenues). Taxation is an interesting concept because there are so many ways you can do it. Think of all the taxes we have today – ad valorem (property) taxes, sales taxes, value added taxes, excise taxes, sin taxes, income taxes, capital gains taxes etc. So V, when you ask how can you fund something “equitably” you need to explain what you consider is equitable? Some people would argue that equitable means poorer people pay proportionately less because proportionally more of their money has to go to sustaining basic needs. Others, and you probably would fit in this camp, would argue that money is money regardless of the owner and should be treated the same. Understanding what you mean is important because different taxes have different burdens meaning that the people who are more likely to pay them varies.

Sales taxes and consumption taxes in general are considered to be the most intrinsically equitable in terms of “treating money as money”. It doesn’t matter who you are, as long as you buy something you are taxed on it. I get the feeling you would like a taxation system based on a national sales tax or something to that effect that replaces our other taxes. The downside? Sales taxes move with the economy, so schools may all of sudden not have enough money when the economy suffers.

Property taxes are considered the most intrinsically equitable in the sense that those with more resources (in this case property) pay more. Philosopher, this sounds like a taxation system you would support. It is a stable revenue stream, which makes it a good choice for funding something like education, but of course will tend to cause some people to pay a lot more in absolute terms in taxes than other taxation schemes. Income taxes generally are progressive, meaning the rates rise when a person’s income rises.

I have a solution that I’ll detail later which combines elements of a value added tax and an income tax so that it treats money like money while recognizing that some people need their resources to purchase basic necessities. I think it might be an acceptable compromise for everyone involved but it’s key drawback is it’s not a simple concept. First, though I’m curious what posters on here want in terms of a taxation system. Let’s hear it!

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If you don’t want to be a public servant, get a job at a private school. As long as you are hired by a public school district as their teacher, the district should be able to assign you to ANY school they chose, without having to give you any extra money. I am open to the idea of providing money for commuting if the distance from your primary residence exceeds a certain amount. But other than that, just as any corporation may move its employees to any division/office, schools should utilize their resources to SERVE their clients most effectively.

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ATLNative,

You are correct in assuming I would prefer a system similar to the Fair Tax. Although you’re absolutely right that a national sales tax would fluctuate with the economy, I would contend that our current collectivist government’s massive spending will result in a far greater economic catastrophe in the future. Socialism has failed on many different levels around the world, wouldn’t you agree?

I disagree with the libertarian model because I feel that there is a distinct role for government to play in a free nation. The Founding Fathers had it right when they set up our government to primarily protect the rights of the people–i.e., their sovereignty. I would say our current government is doing a rather poor job in that respect. Because of this, I certainly don’t consider myself a Libertarian. I am an unabashed Objectivist, and I believe very strongly in the ideas of Ayn Rand.

You certainly piqued my interest with your economic compromise. Please share it. Maybe it’s the answer for which we’ve all been waiting. As I said before, I am a fan of the Fair Tax, but I am always open to new ideas. I’m looking forward to it.

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School corporal punishment is related to the discrepancy in achievement scores for African American children. The U.S. Department of Education committee announced two years ago that addressing the achievement gap is a high priority in LNCB reauthorization. African American children represent l7 percent of the school population and receive 36 percent of the paddlings.

Educators and Parents Worldwide are in Desperate need of training/Public Service Announcements in the Media, especially television and internet, to learn effective, non-violent discipline methods to teach children why what they did was wrong and to model appropriate behavior.

The TRUTH is that school children are treated differently in our great nation based on where they live. A middle school student in Texas died by having his chest crushed when his teacher sat on him to restrain him, a Texas high school student suffered deep bruising and welts to his lower back, buttocks and back of his legs when he received 21 “licks” with a wooden canoe paddle, which broke during the beating and had to be taped to continue the beating, a 9 year old Georgia 3rd grader suffered deep bruising injuries when he was paddled with a wooden paddle 3 TIMES IN ONE DAY (Decatur Co., GA affirmed Corporal Punishment Policy 9/17/09 for school children) and a Publicly Funded Charter School in Memphis, Tennessee physically punishes middle/high school boys and GIRLS weekly during a ceremony called “Chapel” by hitting them with wooden paddles and/or whipping their hands with leather straps IN FRONT OF ALL THE OTHER STUDENTS AS A DETERRENT to publicly induce shame, humiliation and fear! The school employees in the above actions have LEGAL IMMUNITY and are STILL paid by our tax-dollars to be ENTRUSTED with the care and education of our children!

Shocking News Headlines of Children suffering severe injuries by abusive practices in schools are all too common in states that allow paddling. Corporal Punishment of Children in Schools is an outmoded, ineffective and dangerous practice that has been banned in more than l00 countries. It puts school districts at risk for lawsuits for paddling injuries, which is the main reason many districts already have abandoned it.

A recent news headline reads, “Nearly 60,000 spankings in Miss. schools last year.” “Ouch! For the second time in a month, a school district in Leflore County has been hit with a lawsuit from a student alleging injuries from a paddling. An 11-year-old is seeking $500,000 from the Greenwood Public School District in a suit filed Monday in Leflore County Circuit Court. The child’s attorney, James Littleton, said photographs show deep bruising on the then-10-year-old’s buttocks and that he also suffered possible kidney damage.” “It was just unreal the abuse that this child took at the hands of a teacher,” Littleton said. Paddling has been a hot-button issue of late in Leflore County. Just last month, the guardian of a 6-year-old kindergartner filed a $500,000 lawsuit against the Leflore County School District for alleged paddlings. It was reported that a state legal adviser, who told Bristol, Tennessee Director of Schools Gary Lilly that while school principals who paddled students were legally protected from allegations of assault, they were not immune from accusations of inappropriate or improper touching.

School boards are asking for trouble to sanction a practice that is intended to inflict pain.

Make no mistake: beating schoolchildren on their pelvic area with a wooden board causes more problems than it corrects — if it corrects any at all. Teacher-training programs do not include instruction in the “correct method” for hitting students. Zero tolerance for weapons and violence is the standard that should apply to everyone in educational settings. Teachers included

What corporal punishment does accomplish is to degrade the teaching profession, drive good people away, and make the teaching field a safe haven for the dangerously unfit. Its net effect on schools is a negative one. The more that schools indulge in paddling, the higher the dropout rate, along with all the social ills that follow, e.g., gang activity, addiction, mental health problems, unemployment, etc.

The time is long over due for our lawmakers and education policy makers to apply the zero-tolerance rule universally. When paddlers complain, as some inevitably will, they should be advised to look beyond their classroom walls and see how schoolchildren are managed violence free throughout the civilized world. They should look and learn from the 30 states where corporal punishment in schools is forbidden by law. If they can’t learn, they can’t teach.

Research on toddlers and other studies following children into adolescence found physical punishment was bad for children and made them more likely to show anti-social behaviour. Children who were exposed to physical discipline most frequently were two to three times more likely to show anti-social behaviour as an adolescent, including things like getting into fights, being disobedient at home or at school, general delinquency and being in trouble with teachers. Research also indicates that spanking children lowers their IQ’s, which is counterproductive to the learning environment. “It seems highly likely that children exposed to violence would themselves use violence in reaction to situations. Violence begets violence is a lesson from history not just child psychology.” “Children are the most vulnerable members of our society. Adults have constitutional and legal protection from physical violence. Why are children still waiting?” Physical punishment of schoolchildren is NOT education’s “Best Practice” as it is ILLEGAL in 30 states.

Over 50 National Children’s Health and Education Organizations have issued position statements to OPPOSE SCHOOL Corporal Punishment including the American Medical Association, American Academy of Family Physicians, American Academy of Pediatrics, American Bar Assocation, the National PTA (Parent Teacher Association), National Education Association, Prevent Child Abuse America and the NAACP, among others.

School Corporal Punishment as it is a SERIOUS HEALTH AND SAFETY risk causing stress and impaired learning for all school children subjected to or witnessing school corporal punishment. U.S. Congress is currently holding hearings on Abusive and DEADLY practices in SCHOOLS and MUST ABOLISH Physical/Corporal Punishment Nationwide of ALL Children in ALL Schools, The Cost is $0. School paddling bans must be tied to federal funding. Doesn’t it just make sense for all of us to keep our hands off of other people’s children? Don’t ALL AMERICAN SCHOOL CHILDREN DESERVE Education’s “Best Practices”? Pushing for anything less than an outright ban on all forms of classroom abuse reveals a gap in the administration’s professed commitment to making schools better, safer, and stronger.

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V, I probably wouldn’t go so far as to call our government collectivist. When you compare our tax rates and economic freedom indexes compiled by the reputable Economist magazine, the U.S. comes out looking pretty capitalistic. There isn’t really a true black and white capitalistic or collectivist government in the world – you will find many shades of gray. And just to be fair, countries that most Americans would consider socialistic (i.e. Sweden, Denmark, etc.) have managed to grow their economies at rates comparable to the United States with quality of life figures (life expectancy, children mortality, literacy) actually higher than here. So, it’s not necessary the end of the world for a country to be under a more collectivist government.

Still, you make one important point which I entirely agree on – deficit spending is not sustainable for very long and when you’re running deficits, you either have to cut spending or increase taxes. I thought Bush’s policy of cutting taxes and increasing spending was one of the most bizarre tactics I have seen any president go for (most economists conservative and liberal I know analyzed the situation and calculated corrected that Bush’s actions would never result in the economic growth necessary to eliminate the resulting deficit). Obama looks like he wants the best of both worlds as well (neutral taxes, increased spending) which is not much of an improvement. And I’m inclined to side with you on decisions like the stimulus plan, which I thought was excessive and a giveaway to special interests (although I will point out that some elements like infrastructure spending, hospital modernization, are by themselves very smart economic ideas).

Also, an important point that people on both sides of the political aisle sometimes forget is that stability is very valuable for economic growth. If people are unsure of future tax rates, they won’t invest no matter how low taxes are right now. So, it’s actually better for tax rates to be slightly higher if you can keep it stable over time rather than a low tax rate that will jump up when another political party takes control. And that’s a big part of the current problem – we have tax rates that jump all over the place with different politicians when what we need is a signal to investors, the business world, consumers, etc. that they can make their decisions having full information of future tax rates.

I don’t have enough time at the moment to post about my VAT idea but let me just set the stage but defining it. Basically a VAT is where consumers or producers along each step of the production/sales process pay a sales tax that is equivalent to the value added at that step. So imagine some wheat being raised by a farmer. The farmer pays a sales tax to the government when he sells that wheat to a factory. The factory takes the wheat and makes it into flour. The factory then pays a tax on the additional value it created by processing the wheat (difference in the flour and wheat price). Another factory turns the flour into bread and pays tax on the difference between the sales price for bread and the input cost of the wheat. This goes on until the product reaches the consumer. If anyone is unclear of how this process works, just let me know and I will explain. VAT taxes are a lot like sales taxes except because they follow the production process so closely they result in very fair burdens across the economy and can be altered so that they are paid like an income tax with associated refunds, resulting in a system that allows for some help for the poorest.

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you have stated with such pride that you teach in a wealthy school and your negative comments regarding nonwealthy students makes the point obvious, in addition, I rather not paste your comments because that would require reading your dribble again. Vendetta, you say nothing with intellectual substance. You have to speak with idealized political references to apply your irrational thinking. Your vocabulary is so laughable because of your extreme desire for eminence. I assume your dribble comes from talk radio or perhaps you are member of a rascist group of like minded people, whatever the source, I suggest you exposure yourself to non-political literature so you can obtain a more balanced worldview. As for my “ad hominem attacks” (which is so laughable, but that is beside the point. I specifically made my remarks because apparently no one has told you lately that you are ignorantly ill informed based your statements. I would assume that you find it diffcult to find someone who can hold a conversation on your accord and with your vocabulary (so laughable again), which is in reality is so far from the truth. I normally would have ignored your dribble, which I would offer most people do to your nonsense, but the thought of children being exposed to you bothered me. Expose the real you and your views to your parents so they will know what type of person their child is held hostage to 5 days a week. As a parent, I would want to know so I could transfer my child out of your classroom, before your views harm my child. I can reasonably predict that your views affect your teaching. In addition, you clearly are lonely with the amount of time you devote to a computer (I can see why you have so much time alone). As I stated before you deserved my “ad hominem attacks” especially since you arbitrarily give “ad hominem attacks” on the poor. Finally, I would argue that most on this site could care less about your “thoughts” on education. I have wasted enough time on your ignorance. I will contine to pray that you find another occupation more suitable to your dribble.

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you have stated with such pride that you teach in a wealthy school and your negative comments regarding non-wealthy students makes the point obvious, in addition, I rather not paste your comments because that would require reading your dribble again. Vendetta, you say nothing with intellectual substance. You have to speak with idealized political references to apply your irrational thinking. Your vocabulary is so laughable because of your extreme desire for eminence. I assume your dribble comes from talk radio or perhaps you are member of a racist group of like minded people, whatever the source, I suggest you exposure yourself to non-political literature so you can obtain a more balanced worldview. In regard to my “ad hominem attacks” (which is so laughable, but that is beside the point. I specifically made my remarks because apparently no one has told you lately that you are ignorantly ill informed based your statements. I would assume that you find it difficult to find someone who can hold a conversation on your accord and with your vocabulary (so laughable again), which is in reality is so far from the truth. I normally would have ignored your dribble, which I would offer most people do to your nonsense, but the thought of children being exposed to you bothered me. Expose the real you and your views to your parents so they will know what type of person their child is held hostage to 5 days a week. As a parent, I would want to know so I could transfer my child out of your classroom, before your views harm my child. I can reasonably predict that your views affect your teaching. In addition, you clearly are lonely with the amount of time you devote to a computer (I can see why you have so much time alone). As I stated before you deserved my “ad hominem attacks” especially since you arbitrarily give “ad hominem attacks” on the poor. Finally, I would argue that most on this site could care less about your “thoughts” on education. I have wasted enough time on your ignorance. I will continue to pray that you find another occupation more suitable to your dribble.

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Insanity: Continuing to do the same thing expecting a different outcome. Reading the above conversations, there is such negativity and contradictions. Mr. Moses has not proposed a plan he proposed a thought to get you thinking about the change, to start the dialogue that has happened here. In order to expected a different outcome you will need to change something about what you are putting in. The basic principals of Algebra applied to life.

The focus is not who is at fault but the focus is on the one who doesn’t have. Currently the students are the population that is being deprived of the quality education that is spoken of. What are you going to change to ensure a different outcome?

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