Robert P. Moses: We tolerate a “sharecropper’s education”
Speaking tonight at Georgia State where he gave the annual Benjamin E. Mays lecture, educator, civil rights legend and innovator Robert P. Moses called for a constitutional amendment that says “every child in this country is a child of this country and is entitled to a quality public school education.”
Robert P. Moses wants a federal right to a quality public school education
Founder of The Algebra Project, Moses has a dazzling resume, including a MacArthur Foundation genius grant.
Raised in Harlem, educated at Harvard, Moses began his civil rights career as field secretary for the Student Non-violent Coordinating Committee. Then, he was trying to help black sharecroppers in Mississippi register to vote, and he was pistol whipped and beaten for his efforts.
Now, Moses has another injustice in his sights: unequal education.
In his work in poor and minority schools, Moses realized that the “sharecropper education in the age of cotton has been transported alive and kicking into the age of information.”
In the 1980s, Moses founded The Algebra Project, a program that teaches math literacy to poor and minority students in middle and high schools. He goes into the classroom himself and teaches kids who are at the bottom academically in math.
The project has a straightforward goal: Teach struggling students the math they need to graduate high school, to handle college math courses and to get a job.
Asked about how he succeeds in teaching algebra to adolescents who are neither prepared nor interested, he said, “It takes two things to teach algebra. The student has to be able to count. And you have to able to get their attention.”
Moses said education needs two conversations to occur, one with students and one with the country as a whole. In the latter conversation, Moses wants to discuss why we tolerate failing schools and he doesn’t want to dwell on what students do wrong. “It’s so easy to slip into the mode of ‘those people,’ when none of the people are present,” he said.
He told the audience that the conversation should focus on is what “we in this room can do.”
For his part, Moses is leading the charge for the right to a good education, serving on the coordinating committee for the Quality Education as a Constitutional Right group.
According to its literature, the national organization is seeking a “constitutional amendment guaranteeing all children the right to an education that supports them to fully develop and use their talent, skills, and intelligence to fulfill their dreams and contribute to the betterment of their communities, the nation and the world.”
The final question of the night at the GSU event was from a young man who asked why Moses believed an amendment would help since constitutional amendments did not end racism or sexism.
The soft-spoken Moses came down from the podium, walked up to the young man, shook his hand and announced, “Thank you for starting the conversation.”
And that’s how the Tuesday night event ended, which I thought was an ideal place.
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99 comments Add your comment
ScienceTeacher671
November 4th, 2009
6:12 am
“Moses said education needs two conversations to occur, one with students and one with the country as a whole” — that’s a good start…he’s realized that teachers can’t do it all alone.
jim d
November 4th, 2009
7:19 am
But a Constitutional Amendment declaring all children will have a RIGHT to the same education??
I guess we will then have a surfeit of doctors and lawyers
Public school mom
November 4th, 2009
7:26 am
Great ideals and lofty goals but I am always more interested in the nuts and bolts. How does Mr. Moses’ project teach algebra to struggling middle and high schools?
How does his project reach the student who has gotten to high school and for whatever reason no longer values math education, or any education, for that matter?
jim d
November 4th, 2009
8:15 am
ooops–My bad !!
We already have a surfeit of lawyers AND politicans—thats what is wrong with education today.
I can see it now—everyone gets the same dumbed down education so as to avoid filling the courts with constitutional rights cases.
This is a plan that is sure to work.
Meme
November 4th, 2009
8:22 am
No child left behind has already make our educational system a laughing stock. How is this going to help?
Joy in Teaching
November 4th, 2009
8:34 am
I was in a 6th grade remedial math class this morning during Academic Support. I watched a 6th grader counting with her fingers before raising her hand to ask a question. When I went to her, she proclaimed, “You can’t multiply 7 and 8. It’s impossible.” I wish I could say that her lack of basic knowledge is an exception…but that isn’t the truth any more.
How on earth can you begin to teach algebra when kids are arriving in middle school without even knowing their multiplication tables?
jim d
November 4th, 2009
8:42 am
joy,
that is something i discovered years ago when my child was in k-12.
multiplication tables are not taught–they must use some bogus type of reasoning rather than just knowing. Sorry but 50+ years later i can still rattle off the tables and can do so without bogus reasoning skills. which method would you consider LEARNING???
HM
November 4th, 2009
8:43 am
1. Mr. Moses left out an important participant in his “conversation”, the parent(s). Although many students thrive without adequate parental support, it makes the odds of them reaching reasonable goals much more problematic.
2. Regardless of his ability to reach many students in Algebra, much too much time and resources are wasted on subjects that will never be utilized by the great majority of students to any meaningful extent in everyday life if at all. It would be far more productive spending that time writing (see this paragraph), reading, learning consumer issues that face graduates “every” day of their lives, or computer skills including keyboarding (touch typing) that they will use daily at home and work. Spend the time and educational resources for advanced subjects on students who exhibit the ability and drive to benefit from the higher levels of math and science. Mr. Moses thinks every student should be given the education to make them a scientist, mathematician, etc and that’s a destructive concept for the educational system as a whole. It short changes most of the student population that could be engaged in far more productive academic activities and ultimately leads to increased drop out rates. Every student having access to a quality education is one thing, but having subject matter that a short sighted administrator or supposed academic deems necessary for a quality education shoved down the student’s proverbial throat is another. Having these experts justify their existence by pushing the next great unrealistic program is one of our greatest obstacles to education today.
SAEmommy
November 4th, 2009
8:50 am
How does Mr. Moses’ project teach algebra to struggling middle and high schools? Can he be hired to work with all Georgia schools? The math curriculum is the biggest failure ever. The only kids performing in Georgia schools right now are the ones whose parents homeschool on the side and during summers and/or can afford tutoring. We then send these kids to school to be bored out of their socks. There are many good and dedicated teachers almost crying over the disjointed and worthless junk they are supposed to teach. But the politicians and the school system administrators don’t care as long as they get their salaries and their pensions.
SAEmommy
November 4th, 2009
8:57 am
Algebra is a basic part of a quality education, as truly learning your math facts, understanding graphing, … These are not considered any form of higher level learning, but basic building blocks in education and brain development. These simple skills are required to successfully run a business or learn a skilled trade, as well as to move onto higher level learning. Without it, your child only qualifies for an unskilled trade or washing pans in the back of a fast-food joint.
Lo
November 4th, 2009
9:03 am
Algebra is more important than touch typing. In this day and age we need to focus on science, computer skills, and mathmatics. Typing is something most kids have down by time they reach the 5th grade. Growing up I took many touch typing classes in elementary school, junior high, high school and my first year in college. Those classes were a waste of time. Touch typing was relevant when people only used typewriters that were less forgiving of spelling errors. Now we use computers and the need to type without looking at our fingers is no longer there. I think Robert Moses is on the right track.
jim d
November 4th, 2009
9:05 am
SAE—-you left out “owning and operating their own business”
algebra as a gate
November 4th, 2009
9:26 am
HM doesn’t understand how algebra plays the role of a gate keeper. Students without algebra will have VERY limited options. Denying algebra from poor, non-white students is a sure way to keep them down where they “belong,” as people like HM might say.
NonStarter
November 4th, 2009
9:41 am
A constitutional amendment of this nature would basically mean lots of nebulous lawsuits over the definition and extra costs for the education systems. I hope the goal of Mr. Moses is to raise awareness of educational issues rather than actually advocating a senseless change to the constitution.
MyOpinion
November 4th, 2009
9:52 am
“How on earth can you begin to teach algebra when kids are arriving in middle school without even knowing their multiplication tables?”
You begin by teaching those children their multiplication tables. At the end of the year, those children still might not know how to do algebra, but they will be one step closer on the path to learning it.
“But a Constitutional Amendment declaring all children will have a RIGHT to the same education??”
No, Moses did not say that there should be a RIGHT to the SAME education; he stated that there should be a RIGHT to a QUALITY education.
A right to a quality education would mean that you present all children with an equal opportunity to learn. This means that schools across the US should have books and other essential resources available for every student in the school, good teachers / teachers that actually specialized and have the skills required to teach a specific subject to students, and an administration that knows when to support and/or discipline their faculty and students.
Once the things mentioned above are given to children, you would have provided the potential for a quality education. Whether or not the student takes advantage of this opportunity is another question.
Agree with jim d 8:42am post, but subtract 35 years.
Discourse
November 4th, 2009
9:56 am
@jim d
The man said “every child in this country is a child of this country and is entitled to a quality public school education.” He said “quality” not the “same.”
@Public school mom
Here’s a great opportunity to research how Mr. Moses in a nuts and bolts fashion went into the classroom himself. If this man is able to implement a system that can be duplicated and if its successful in turning around students that have become disenchanted/lost that’s great. Something needs to be done preferably sooner than later. I would agree engaged parents are absolutely necessary to the equation.
DeKalb Conservative
November 4th, 2009
9:59 am
A Constitutional amendment that says “every child in this country is a child of this country and is entitled to a quality public school education.” — That’s rubbish. For one, this is absolutely degrading to public school teachers implying that (poor and minority) students are not able to get a quality education. Two, this statement that ‘every child in this country is a child of this country’ is completely untrue. The hidden agenda, regardless of how you find yourself in this country, if you’re here, the U.S. is responsible for you. Finally, this is nothing but political showboating — it has been almost 20 years since the last Amendment was passed.
DeKalb Conservative
November 4th, 2009
10:06 am
“Moses wants to discuss why we tolerate failing schools and he doesn’t want to dwell on what students do wrong.”
Are you kidding me? How many times will it take before there is a serious discussion on the student’s role in his/her education? Stop pointing the finger at the school systems and society as a whole and look the children of these failing schools straight in the eye and give them the honest truth about how their efforts and work ethics in the classroom will affect them for their entire life.
I agree with Moses. There is unequal education, but it’s not because of some unequal education conspiracy towards poor and minority students. There’s an unequal education because aging civil rights leaders such as him continue to point the finger towards society as a whole without having the courage to have a candid discussion with the poor and minority students he is hoping to serve.
Let's Not Stereotype Georgia Schools
November 4th, 2009
10:06 am
SAEmommy,
I’m curious which schools your children are zoned for. I agree with you that we have way too many students nonperforming but I don’t think I would go as far as to say that “The only kids performing in Georgia schools right now are the ones whose parents homeschool on the side and during summers and/or can afford tutoring.” We moved from Boston to Cobb County and my son’s high school curriculum is more rigorous than up north – he’s taking multivariable calculus as a junior and the school is considering adding a linear algebra class.
In terms of performance, we have never paid for tutoring or homeschooled him in any way (I’m afraid to say my calculus skills are not very sharp) and the school dismisses 3 hours early every Wednesday so students can receive tutoring or individual assistance from teachers. I don’t know of any neighbors or classmates of his that require private tutoring – hard work and a willingness on the part of the students to approach teachers, yes but the resources are there at school. If you want more numerical evidence that many students are succeeding in public schools, last year almost forty students were admitted to an ivy league or ivy league caliber (Stanford, MIT, etc.) school, 20% of the school’s students scored above a 2200 and 10% over a 2300 on the SAT last year. And I’m sure there are many other great schools in Georgia that match or exceed these numbers. And that’s not even considering some of the wonderful private school choices that many parents potentially have.
DeKalb Conservative
November 4th, 2009
10:25 am
@ algebra as a gate
How is algebra denied to poor, non-white students?
If there is some big conspiracy, which do you think non-poor whites fear more? A minority with an education working AND contributing to society, or a non-algebra fluent minority point a gun sideways-gangsta style demanding their money?
Clueless
November 4th, 2009
10:30 am
Isn’t this already a part of the Georgia constitution?
DeKalb Conservative
November 4th, 2009
10:33 am
@ Clueless
Not 100% certain around the exact language within the Georgia Constitution, however the issue is around the wording… Moses is asking for a “quality public school education” not a “equal opportunity public school education.”
There’s a big difference between equal opportunities and equal outcomes.
teacher/parent
November 4th, 2009
10:37 am
@MyOpinion-Your username says it all. The definition of ‘quality education’ you gave is your opinion of what that means. Having such a vauge term in a constitutional amendment is asking for trouble. I actually agree with your definition, but I’m sure there are many out there who would interpret the term to mean something very different or something much too specific to legislate.
If Moses’ purpose is truly to ’start the conversation’ as Maureen implied, then great. If he truly wants to waste time lobbying for an amendment that will probalby never pass, then many kids will just continue to fall further behind. At some point, we have to stop talking and start doing.
Maureen Downey
November 4th, 2009
10:41 am
Teacher/parent,
I think Robert Moses does want to start a conversation. One point that he made is that the biggest discrepancies in quality now are between states, not within states. “We are not going to get to where we need to be state by state,” he said.
Maureen
Singing to the Choir
November 4th, 2009
10:42 am
TO Let’s Not Stereotype Georgia Schools
sounds as if your child attends Walton. If so I know lots of parents that send their kids to tutoring because the teachers don’t understand the new math. If your son is a JR then he skipped the new math. My sister graduated from Walton last year and she had a tutor for several courses. Now she attends an Ivey League school and states Walton did not prepare her.
jim d
November 4th, 2009
11:07 am
“Moses has another injustice in his sights: unequal education.”
1. a : not of the same measurement, quantity, or number as another b : not like or not the same as another in degree, worth, or status.
Unless I’m mistaken the only true measure would be in outcomes of the student, not the efforts of the teacher.
That being said, one would expect a lot of legal cases claiming since the outcomes were different that the teachers had failed to provide that which would be set forth in a constitutional amendment.(an equal education)
Yes we are all equal only thing is some are more equal than others. (just a fact of life)
DeKalb Conservative
November 4th, 2009
11:14 am
@ Maureen
I think its a little unrealistic to say that the biggest discrepancies in quality are between states and not within states. I don’t have the evidence to support, but I would expect both urban and rural areas would lag in what Moses is referring to quality.
This is a classic example of big government v. local government.
I come to this conclusion after Moses stated the didn’t want “dwell on what students do wrong.” From that point forward I have to conclude anything Moses comes up with is going be focused around spending more money. Until Moses is willing to put some blame on a 10th grader for reading at a 4th grade level he is just speaking noise.
lmno
November 4th, 2009
11:43 am
“Come on let’s face it, a ghetto education’s basic
A most a the youths them waste it
And when them waste it, that’s when them take da guns and replace it
Then them don’t stand a chance at all”
-Damian Marley
Maureen Downey
November 4th, 2009
11:47 am
DeKalb Conservative, I think what Moses was saying is that the conversation with students – about the importance of education, about doing their work – is a different one than the national conversation on how committed we are as a nation to quality in our schools.
His point was that reformers attend meetings and talk about the people who aren’t there – most often parents and students – and what they are doing wrong and how it’s their fault.
He thinks it’s more productive for the people in those rooms to talk about about themselves and what they can do.
Maureen
Loving Decatur
November 4th, 2009
11:51 am
Singing to the choir, I completely understand your point about the new math being hard to teach but can you clarify how your sister’s school did not “prepare her” for an ivy league school when she managed to get accepted? The school clearly prepared her to get accepted although it sounds like the ivy league school in question should have a better screening process for applicants if your sister subsequently felt it was too hard after getting in.
jim d
November 4th, 2009
11:56 am
ROTFLMFAO,
Funny stuff.
“reformers attend meetings and talk about the people who aren’t there – most often parents and students – and what they are doing wrong and how it’s their fault.
He thinks it’s more productive for the people in those rooms to talk about about themselves and what they can do.”
Moses of all people should now this will never change. I’ve known lowly teachers to the largest systems CEO. And do you know what?? —–Not one of them has ever been WRONG!!
teacher/parent
November 4th, 2009
12:24 pm
Maureen-I’ve got to say I’m with Dekalb Conservative on this one. There are huge discrepencies within states and counties for that matter.
If someone has the time (I don’t), look up
*which schools make AYP and which ones don’t
*which schools have the majority of students who meet and exceed expectations on tests and which ones have a majority who do not meet expectations
*which schools have higher graduation rates
*which schools have higher rates of students being accepted to colleges
*which schools have higher rates of students GRADUATING from college
Please don’t look at GPAs because an A at one school is not an A at another. My point is that if we look at this from a national perspective, our individual students will still be overlooked. We MUST address discrepencies with states, counties, and schools.
clyde
November 4th, 2009
12:24 pm
During this,the age of information,we still need cotton pickers and road builders,and someone to install that extra receptacle in your kitchen that you need for your toaster.You need carpenters and plumbers and welders or this country will fall down around you in short order.Surely Moses doesn’t intend to import them all from south of the border after every child in America has attended the university of his/her choice and gone on to become a doctor,lawyer, or Indian Chief.Someone out there has to do the physical work.
Pompano
November 4th, 2009
12:26 pm
Why it it that this piece of crap newspaper never passes on an opportunity to race bait here in Atlanta? Nice headline today on “Racial bias in suspensions” but no facts in the article to substantiate. Just an opportunity to give some people who want to holler discrimination their 15 minutes of fame – what a pathetic organization.
Reality
November 4th, 2009
12:38 pm
“every child in this country is a child of this country and is entitled to a quality public school education.” That is what Mr. Moses said. Where are some of you getting “equal education” from? Can you read? Some of you see minority and that colors everything else in the article. Pittiful absolutely pittiful.
V for Vendetta
November 4th, 2009
12:45 pm
More entitlements? That’ll fix everything . . . .
budman
November 4th, 2009
12:57 pm
As my friends from Iowa remark how the education is poor in Georgia…I always remark “we have some really stupid people that live here..not poor teaching” !!!
Old Physics Teacher
November 4th, 2009
1:11 pm
Jim D at 11:56,
You beat me to the punch. But you left out the part where the guy is going to make the horse drink the water. It’s so easy to talk about what YOU’RE going to do to MAKE the students better. Yeah, like you have ‘control’ over their learning! It’s so easy because you expect the students to value what you’re teaching. But what if they don’t value what you’re teaching? The “average” ( and I’m not sure if I even know what that is anymore!) preteen/teenager lives for right NOW. What we’re teaching is for the FUTURE. For many of them, the future is the football game this coming Friday. We don’t have that type of influence. That’s what the parents are for. As, I think, Freddie Prinz used to say, “That’s not my job, man!”
All anyone can do is YOUR best. Make today the day you’re going to do the best teaching job you’ve ever done. Kids that WANT to learn will pick up your enthusiasm and will get involved.in the lesson. As I said earlier, you can lead the horse to water… that’s ALL you can do, but that’s exactly what they DO pay us for.
A Jordan
November 4th, 2009
1:18 pm
I agree with the professor, but will add that the parents are being omitted from this dialogue. They too have a tremendous responsibility to foster an environment suitable for learning. And if they cannot, teaching respect for authority and respecting themselves will add value to his plan.
Maureen Downey
November 4th, 2009
1:18 pm
Pompano, Your comment prompted me to write a full entry on this issue.
Maureen
ugaaccountant
November 4th, 2009
1:30 pm
jim d
November 4th, 2009
8:42 am
joy,
that is something i discovered years ago when my child was in k-12.
multiplication tables are not taught–they must use some bogus type of reasoning rather than just knowing. Sorry but 50+ years later i can still rattle off the tables and can do so without bogus reasoning skills. which method would you consider LEARNING???
With all respect, I consider reasoning to be better than memorizing. I don’t care if the kid has to reason out that 7 X 8 can be solved by adding 8+8+8+8+8+8+8, because even though it’s slower, she will be able to reach the right answer. However if a kid memorizes the multiplication table only enough to get a 70% on a test and then forgets it, how does that help them through life? Kids today are all to happy to think they’ve mastered a subject when they cram for a test and get a 70%. You would have been only satisfied with 100%.
I feel that now, kids are taught to memorize what will be on the test for that grade, get a 70% on that test, and move on to the next year. They aren’t learning to reason and they aren’t even really memorizing for the long term.
Terry
November 4th, 2009
1:33 pm
I know I’m going to get slammed for this but here it goes. Please keep responses pithey but appropriate.
For starters this organization should work to abolish corporal punishment in schools in the 20 states that allow it. Talk about a disparity. 30 states don’t hit kids in schools, and 20 states do.
jim d
November 4th, 2009
1:43 pm
ugaaccountant,
With all due respect, I suppose you’d find it acceptable for an accountant using a calculator to hit 8+8 eight times to come up with the answer although there is an X button on the calculator.
bottom line–if the correct answer is what you seek—LEARN the answer so the next time you need it you can recall it automatically.
ugaaccountant
November 4th, 2009
1:43 pm
Terry – 30 states need to re-institute corporal punishment. It’s the only consequence most kids actually respond to. How many cronic mis-behaving kids do you think care about their grades dropped or getting some free time off for suspension? Even detention/in-school suspension is good because they don’t have to do or learn anything, just hang out.
As to the definition of “entitled to a quality education”, I hope he means equality of inputs. Meaning every school system should have the same teacher qualifications and resources like books/computers. You can not guarantee the kids will learn though, no matter what the government provides.
ugaaccountant
November 4th, 2009
1:46 pm
Jim – That’s sort of my point. Calculators or computers will exist for most jobs. A kid who can reason will at least know that the * or X button means multiply and they will use it. And they will have reasoning abilities to look at the outcome and work backwards to ensure it was right.
It’s what teachers called “checking your work” at my school. You weren’t allowed to just answer the question, you had to show all steps you took to get there, and sometimes work it backwards as well.
Terry
November 4th, 2009
1:48 pm
ugaaccountant – what you state is a tad disingenious. Most children respond very well to positive behavior supports if implemented correctly. There is absolutely zero that says this method is working. In the states that continue with this practice, the disparities in achievement are glaringly apparent.
Let's Not Stereotype Georgia Schools
November 4th, 2009
1:50 pm
Singing to the Choir,
Congrats to your sister for getting into an Ivy League school! As a parent I know what it’s like when children go through the college application process and the joy on their faces when getting that big envelope is priceless! And yes, you are right – he does attend Walton.
Let’s focus on the big picture rather than one school. My point was that many students in Georgia do go through the public education system fine and without a need for expensive tutors and homeschooling. Of course, I can only speak from my experiences but I see it everyday in my son and his classmates who go to sleep at 2 a.m. (his choice, not mine) because they’re self-motivated to finish all the work and readings required for the next day’s classes. Of course teacher quality varies but my son’s teachers have been willing to stay after-school or come in early every day to help review material. And I wholeheartedly believe that this story is repeated many many times across Georgia.
My feeling is that if teachers are putting in the effort and students are motivated, they will do fine in our public education system. And my only point in giving out those statistics on college acceptances was to show that the academic achievement of many of Georgia’s public school students are being recognized by universities with reputations for rigorous acceptance standards.
ugaaccountant
November 4th, 2009
2:45 pm
Terry – I am not being disengenious. I can speak to personal experience. Corporal punishment worked for me as opposed to other kinds of discipline. Let’s not get dragged down in that argument though cause we’re probably just complete opposite opinions here.
I’m not sure what you mean by positive behavior supports? If you mean rewards for doing good, yes that of course does work to varying degrees depending on how well it’s implemented. But you aren’t implying that it can completely change people’s inherent nature to break the rules are you? But there will still always be kids who break the rules and some kind of punishment or deterent is still needed. We all can argue until we’re blue in the face on what kind of punishment or deterent.
Terry
November 4th, 2009
3:10 pm
The caveat is ‘implemented correctly’. If a school buys into it, along with administration, parents, and teachers as well as students, there is no need for hitting children in school. Violence against children in public schools is a disgrace. UGA accountant, I don’t know if you are aware but this is still done in many parts of Georgia. I did an open records request on it. I was stunned. Go to http://www.pbis.org and learn more about Positive Behavior Supports
Reality 2
November 4th, 2009
3:19 pm
The difference between Robert Moses and some of the people who criticize him like DeKalb Conservative and V is that Moses has gone into those classrooms and made differences to his students. People like DC and V just talk and deny there is anything wrong and try to keep those people in their places.