Charter school association: Districts have no case
In view of the expanding list of school systems suing the state over its new charter school commission, I asked the Georgia Charter Schools Association to write an op-ed piece, which runs in the paper Monday. Here is what Tony Roberts, CEO of the association, wrote:
Five school districts have filed suit against the state of Georgia claiming that the creation and operation of the Georgia Charter Schools Commission is unconstitutional.
Additionally, they seek the closure of two charter schools authorized by the commission: Ivy Preparatory Academy in Gwinnett County and Charter Conservatory for the Arts and Technology in Bulloch County.
We believe that their suits are not only unfounded, but also a slap in the face to the parents and students who have decided to pursue the best public education possible.
First, we must understand what charter schools are. They are free, public, open enrollment schools that any student can attend. They cannot exclude students, they cannot charge tuition, and — like public schools everywhere — they must serve all students who wish to enroll in the school.
We also cannot forget that the commission was made necessary by local district denials of charter school applications. Prior to the creation of the commission, the approval rate for independent, public charter schools by local school districts was abysmal.
Local districts engaged in wholesale denials of charter school petitions with the weak rationale that the new schools would “not be in the best interests of the district.” Districts had no incentive to give objective and fair consideration of proposed charter schools. And most did not. The commission merely creates a level playing field for charter approval.
The districts might have stronger justification if there were not widespread problems with student achievement and graduation rates in traditional public schools.
While Georgia student achievement and graduation rates appear to be moving upward, there are still a lot of schools that do not serve their students well.
So, this issue really becomes, “shall we force children to continue attending schools that fail them?” The intent of the commission is to allow parents an option to seek a better education for their children in charter schools which, by the way, have graduation rates that far exceed state averages while serving a population more likely to be poor.
Ultimately, the lawsuit is about money. None of the districts had any problem when charter schools were authorized and funded at less than half the amount of funding compared to traditional public schools.
Only after the Legislature decided that charter schools should be funded equitably did they file suit.
But how does it make any sense for a district to retain state money for students it no longer teaches? The commission merely allows money to follow the child. Any opposite conclusion flies in the face of all notions of fairness and efficiency.
Districts further claim that the commission usurps their authority to control all public schools within their district and that this violates the Georgia constitution.
Throughout the legislative process, numerous constitutional and legal experts reviewed the commission bill and deemed it fully constitutional. To be sure, the majority of our state legislators had no concerns about the bill’s constitutionality when they passed it. Neither did Gov. Sonny Perdue when he signed it into law.
These plaintiff districts think the constitution gave them a monopoly on public education. Their fallacious argument is that the state has yielded total authority for public education over to the districts.
However, Article VIII, Section I, Paragraph 1 of the constitution makes the state’s position very clear: “The provision of an adequate public education for the citizens shall be a primary obligation of the state of Georgia.”
The citizens of Georgia want and deserve the best educational opportunities that their tax funds can provide. Ivy Preparatory Academy in Norcross and Charter Conservatory for the Arts and Technology are shining examples of what can be accomplished in public education.
After its first year of operation, Ivy Prep has established itself as one of the top middle schools in the state.
This ethnically and socioeconomically diverse, all-girls school had more than 90 percent of its inaugural sixth grade class meet or exceed CRCT standards in reading, English/language arts and math, a performance that rivaled or bested other public schools in Gwinnett School District.
CCAT consistently graduates 100 percent of its students outperforming both of the two traditional public high schools in Bulloch County and significantly higher than the state average.
Additionally, the number of students enrolling in college after graduation from CCAT is a full 20 percent higher than the state average.
It is no secret that charter schools in Georgia, especially independent public charter schools, outperform their peers in traditional public schools statewide. The opponents of charter schools claim that having charter schools harms the traditional public schools.
However, these opponents have not produced a single study that supports that claim. To the contrary, several university studies have concluded that the presence of quality charter schools increases the health and performance of traditional public schools.
There’s a lot more riding on this suit than the settling of a theoretical constitutional question.
The most basic and most important question is: “What is best for the children?”
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85 comments Add your comment
d
November 1st, 2009
8:20 am
As I have said multiple times before, the argument I have is not against the charter schools, it is the method of approval. My ELECTED board has been overruled. Who does Mr. Roberts answer to? Not me as a voter for sure. I have recourse with the Gwinnett County Board of Education and that is to vote them out if they don’t do what I want (and believe me, I think they are in for a challenge this year). I do not want to see Ivy Prep shut down, it appears they are doing a good job — and they did so before my elected officials were overruled by an appointed board who again does not have to answer to me as a taxpaying, voting citizen of Gwinnett County and the State of Georgia. Two things need to happen here, there needs to be some serious change on the Gwinnett BOE. I heard recently that the longest serving board member in Georgia and Gwinnett has been serving for 37 years. Seriously? So much has changed in Gwinnett in the past 4 decades. How does she keep getting elected, but since her reelection was as close as it was last year, there is hope indeed that some positive change can come to Gwinnett.
To answer Mr. Roberts’ question, “What is best for the children?” The best public schools for each and every one is the answer, but taking away the authority of my elected officials, whether or not I agree with them, is not going to lead to that. We have a system in place and that is government of the people, by the people and for the people. If that sacred truth is changed to government *to* the people as the charter schools commission is (and they are telling us what they think is best for us by overruling the will of the elected BOE), then all hope for our republic may soon be lost.
Jeff Spicoli
November 1st, 2009
9:38 am
D, you have some very strong points but keep in mind a couple of things. First, we as a state and a nation, until the creation of charter schools, did not have competition in public K12 education like we have had the same competition in higher education let alone every other marketplace. School boards do NOT wish to have this competition as students leave the traditional public schools for public schools of choice. But the choice and the competition that charters provide is so very needed, most notably for the socioeconomically disadvantaged who otherwise must take what is given to them, good or bad.
Secondly, your rights as a vote are still alive and well. If you do not like what the GA House, GA Senate and Gov. Perdue are doing with this law, then you are able to use your voting rights as a citizen of Gwinnett County and the state of Georgia to vote your locally elected officials out of office.
Lastly, the Ga Charter Schools Commission must answer to every citizen who attends a commission approaved charter school. If the charter is not living up to the obligations set within the charter, the Commission has the obligation to make changes or close the charter.
D, are we willing to do the hard work in the name of our children or do we continue to send far too many children out into the world without the skills to achieve?
ATLNative
November 1st, 2009
10:55 am
I think that the GCSA CEO’s comments are a slap in the face of parents. I don’t recall voting for him in the last election nor any election for that matter. If parents want to see more charter schools, they are free to elect board members amenable to the idea. This is the legal argument against the state commission and one frankly that I find rather persuasive.
Granted, I could be persuaded to support a state charter commission if they can be answerable to voters (referendum on creating the commission, elections for members) but Roberts doesn’t seem to fully understand the economics of our education model. As a former economist, allow me explain. Public schools, like most government programs, are run under the simple economic rationale that fixed costs (building, transportation, teachers) are high and revenue is variable. As a result, economies of scale generated when students in an area attend a local school allows schools to be run efficiently. When money “follows the students” that essentially means that some schools will then lack the revenue to cover its fixed costs, creating a higher tax burden for everyone in the district. Once you realize this, it is important to see why schools have to be accountable to the taxpayers supporting them.
While we are on this topic, I must point out that the constitution does not define what “adequate” is or is not. We already have NCLB allowing transfers within districts as well as the school choice law. It would be relatively simple to legally resolve whether the state is providing “adequate” educational opportunities (it is). So the burden is for Roberts to demonstrate how his commission legally has the power to affect our tax rates without being elected. Until he clearly demonstrates this, the answer is simple – he does not.
Jeff Spicoli
November 1st, 2009
11:55 am
D and ATLNative, your points are strong points but you are discounting your own rights as a constituent of Gwinnett (or elsewhere) and the state of Georgia. You voted into office your Georgia House and Senate members as well as Governor Perdue. If you are dissatisfied with their actions, you have the ability to use your rights as a voter to vote them out of office.
Mr. Roberts quotes the Georgia Constitution and it appears the Georgia General Assembly is attempting to live up to the obligation of providing the citizens of Georgia with an adequate public education. And I take deep exception the notion that our state is currently providing an adequate public education for the citizens of our state. We are failing far too many of our citizens each and every year and the ones who are most at risk are our poorest families with little to no voice with regards to the deplorable schools they must accept.
Ultimately, these Commission approved charter schools are schools which the taxpayers of the district choose to attend. Not one dime leaves the school district for these charter schools. The dollars stay within the confines of public K12 education by following the child to their public school of choice.
So it appears to me that your tax dollars are not being harmed, your voting rights as a citizen of Georgia remain in place and our state is attempting to live up to our constitution.
“The Constitution makes us not rivals for power but partners for progress.” – John F. Kennedy, State of Union, 1962
Ed
November 1st, 2009
12:32 pm
In DeKalb the question “shall we force children to continue attending schools that fail them?” is moot. The BOE and the school administration have shown time and again that children are a secondary concern, far behind the primary purpose of DCSS, which is to serve as an employment agency for a select, 6-figure few.
d
November 1st, 2009
12:51 pm
Ed, DCSS has bigger issues than the six-figure salaries — watch the board member comments at the Oct BOE meeting at Columbia High…. That aside, DeKalb has done a great job with providing choices to the parents and students of DeKalb County, multiple magnet programs, charters, theme schools, etc. The problems *in* the DeKalb County Schools come from two things, and yes the overbearing county office administrative situation is one, too many people trying to justify their jobs placing excessive demands on teachers that reduce the amount of time available to teach children, and second, where are the PARENTS????? Parental involvement is the number one way to improve a school.
what choice?
November 1st, 2009
1:52 pm
d, DeKalb hasn’t don’t a great job of providing choices to the students of DeKalb county; it has done a great job of providing chances. Sure, you can enter a lottery and have a chance to attend the school you would like. It may even feel like a choice to those whose names get drawn in the lottery, but for those of us on the losing side of the lottery there isn’t any choice. With 3 children, I’ve entered school lotteries 13 times over the years, and never been given the opportunity to send my children to the schools I would choose.
Jeff
November 1st, 2009
2:16 pm
D and ATLNative, your points are strong points but you are discounting your own rights as a constituent of Gwinnett (or elsewhere) and the state of Georgia. You voted into office your Georgia House and Senate members as well as Governor Perdue. If you are dissatisfied with their actions, you have the ability to use your rights as a voter to vote them out of office.
Mr. Roberts quotes the Georgia Constitution and it appears the Georgia General Assembly is attempting to live up to the obligation of providing the citizens of Georgia with an adequate public education. And I take deep exception the notion that our state is currently providing an adequate public education for the citizens of our state. We are failing far too many of our citizens each and every year and the ones who are most at risk are our poorest families with little to no voice with regards to the deplorable schools they must accept.
Ultimately, these Commission approved charter schools are schools which the taxpayers of the district choose to attend. Not one dime leaves the school district for these charter schools. The dollars stay within the confines of public K12 education by following the child to their public school of choice.
So it appears to me that your tax dollars are not being harmed, your voting rights as a citizen of Georgia remain in place and our state is attempting to live up to our constitution.
The Constitution makes us not rivals for power but partners for progress. – John F. Kennedy, State of Union, 1962
Dr. Craig Spinks /Augusta
November 1st, 2009
2:17 pm
d, you’re right: parental involvement is the number one way to improve a school. But who from individual schools, from more distant parts of the educracy, or from anywhere else in our state is reaching out to parents to involve them in their children’s schools? Many parents are too timid. Many feel unwelcome. Others don’t know how they could become involved. Who’s REACHING OUT on personal levels to those legions of PARENTS WHO CARE?
d
November 1st, 2009
2:39 pm
When 99% of Gwinnett Schools make AYP (for whatever that is worth, not much in my honest opinion) I would say Gwinnett is providing an “adequate” public education without needing to be overruled by an appointed board. That aside, Sonny Perdue is term limited and I cannot do much for or against him at this time. He has betrayed public education in this state by pulling nearly $2 BILLION away from public education in his 7 years in office so far. The Charter School Commission is a strictly appointed board, by the governor (term limited already), lieutenant governor, and the Speaker of the House (and I have no say in who is elected to that post). As I have said time and time again, Jeff, I have no problem with the charter school except in the way it has come into existence. If my local board of education says no (and believe me, my member has lost my vote already), then that is it. An APPOINTED commission should not, and I do not believe constitutionally, has the authority to redirect tax dollars, no matter how noble the cause. Again, I don’t have a problem with the existence of Ivy Prep, but I can’t vote out the Georgia Charter Schools Commission. That is the basis of my whole complaint. If they were elected officials with the constitutional authority to overrule a local BOE, that would be different. Perhaps the General Assembly should look at that, as well as allowing us to elect the state Board of Education.
d
November 1st, 2009
2:41 pm
Oh, let me clarify my comment on AYP — Adequate Yearly Progress, or the performance of the school in achieving 100% of students passing the mandated standardized tests. In 2014, the requirement will be that 100% of students pass or a school will not make “AYP.” But if 100% pass, then what progress can occur after that?
Jeff
November 1st, 2009
3:08 pm
And I assume for the Ivy Prep students attending Gwinnett, DeKalb, APS, Fulton, Cobb, and Clayton schools which are failing, we should just let them go back to those failing schools in those districts so they can grow up to become the next generation of unproductive members of our communities. It is easy to say Gwinnett is providing an “adequate” public education when you are among the 99%. An just because a school or district makes AYP does not mean the school or the district is preparing those children for college or the real world.
d
November 1st, 2009
4:26 pm
I would like to see how Ivy Prep students are doing on nationally normed tests rather than just CRCT also before passing final judgment. Dr. Spinks…. parents need to step up and be parents, timidness is no excuse for not doing your job. What choice…. my question to you is what have you done about it? What solutions are being brought to the table? As I said, I really don’t have a problem with the charter school commission except for lack of accountability. I think, in concept, it could work but I want a say on who’s on that board. Until then, they need to keep out of the affairs of my elected officials.
Jeff
November 1st, 2009
5:06 pm
Let’s take a look then at who is on the Commission: a former UGA President who is considered a national expert on education reform, two individuals who served both Governor Perdue and one who served Governor Barnes as well (an education Governor until teachers unions and school boards drove him out of office), a national leader in education reform, a banker, a high ranking university administrator, and a former Georgia district superintendent. Looks like a diverse group of individuals with an incredible array of skills to me. They seem to be far more skilled to make decisions without having to deal with local politics or nepotism.
d
November 1st, 2009
5:18 pm
Jeff, you’re missing my point. They may be the most qualified people to hold the job that they are holding, but as government officials, they need to be accountable to the voters, and they are not. Since you mention Barnes, I hardly consider someone blaming teachers for all the woes of the educational system to be an “education governor.” I am not saying there are bad teachers there, and the “union” as you call it (really a professional association, just look at the name) has told teachers that they are in the wrong line of work. I’ve seen it. I’ve seen one of those teachers come back and try to cause strife in the organization as well. I’ve seen the organization avoid the bad teachers because they don’t want them to be part of their professional organization. The education system is not as broke as people make it out to be, until too many people try to get their hands into it. Let’s get the hands out and let the boards of education do their job — but maybe we need to set some qualifications for being on a BOE such as those you mentioned for the charter school commission. A home builder is the chair of Gwinnett County…. conflict of interest? I might think so. I know Barnes is trying to make nice with GAE, I don’t think it will work in the long run. Here’s my thought…. let’s get the Constitution amended so we can elect the state board and work to get these people on the state BOE if they are indeed as qualified as you say.
d
November 1st, 2009
5:53 pm
Filtered…. oh well, basic message was I don’t care how qualified the people are if they’re not elected, however, I would like to see some of these people elected to local BOE’s or have the State Constitution amended to allow us to elect the state BOE and put them there.
Charter school association: Districts have no case | Get Schooled School’s Rate
November 1st, 2009
8:54 pm
[...] from: Charter school association: Districts have no case | Get Schooled By admin | category: best schools | tags: answer, authority, away-the-authority, elected, [...]
Ernest
November 1st, 2009
9:02 pm
d presents a very convincing argument. I believe this is more a constitutional question more than anything else at this time.
ATLNative
November 1st, 2009
10:02 pm
Jeff, understand that I am not against charter schools in general but the implementation of a state run charter commission. You make the point that I can vote my for representatives who pass these laws except I would argue that the alternative I presented (referendum on state run commission; subsequent election of commission members) is superior because the link between my rights as a taxpayer and legislation is more direct. There are many reasons I vote for a candidate for state legislature and it could be very likely that a candidate who I disagree with on educational issues shares my views on other issues. As a result, when voters have the opportunity to directly impact their local schools (via a board of education), I question the necessity of state legislators being involved in the process as this actually dilutes my representation rights (since my vote is spread across even more issues). That more charters aren’t being created is a reflection of apathy in local school board elections rather than flaws in the process to begin with.
The issue of failing schools is a good point to bring up in favor of charters but I still don’t see the link between the positive benefits of charters and having a state-run charter commission which is the point of this lawsuit. Again, we have to keep in mind that money isn’t as simple as money following a student. Given the fixed cost model, students leaving a school WILL have an impact on the remaining students in that school that don’t move if/when the school revenue falls below its fixed cost base. If three students leave a school and that school is forced to fire a teacher or two (impacting potentially hundreds other students, who is being served “adequately”?) My opinion is that local school boards, not distant political bureaucrats are in the best position to weigh the pros and cons of authorizing charter schools. This is why I have a very hard time supporting a state run charter commission that I have minimal say on.
ScienceTeacher671
November 1st, 2009
11:10 pm
Although in general I like the idea of charter schools, I agree with d and ATLnative on the constitutional issue.
SBC Charter Roundup 40 – Schools Building Communities
November 1st, 2009
11:34 pm
[...] CBS Channel 13) D.C. — Rhee is right — summer learning is vital (Washington Post) Ga. — Charter school association: Districts have no case (Atlanta Journal Constitution) Ind. — Who’s minding the charters? (Fort Wayne Journal Gazette) [...]
EducationCEO
November 2nd, 2009
1:01 am
ATLNative you obviously don’t follow charter school business: Roberts is not elected by the public. He is chosen by the GA Charter School Association’s board members. This organization is NOT funded by GA public tax dollars; they write and receive grant funds to cover the expenses of their organization. We need to spend a little more time researching and reading things before we make outlandish accusations and gather the mob to dismantle FREE school choice.
Very Happy IVY Prep Dad
November 2nd, 2009
1:12 am
The Friedman Foundation
For Educational Choice
Why School Choice?
The origins of public schools lie in the belief that they bring learning and opportunity to all and ensure a stable democracy.
If this were true, then there might not be a need for school choice.
But it’s not. Public schools are as segregated as ever. Children, particularly children in urban areas, are dropping out in record numbers and are getting a quality of education that depends more on where they live than on what they can learn. Parents, unless they can move or pay private school tuition, have little choice about the kind of education their children receive.
Public schooling is simply a monopoly that doesn’t fulfill the ideals of our founding fathers. The tragic irony is that the dream envisioned by the founders of our public education system is actually increasing the stratification of society and failing to provide equal educational opportunity.
In 1955, a forward-thinking Milton Friedman foresaw the result of this monopoly and encouraged a return to liberty through the introduction of school choice. He argued that it would be much better and more equitable if the government would “give each child, through his parents, a specified sum [voucher] to be used solely in paying for his general education.”
The benefits of this idea, which has come to be known as school choice, are numerous. Studies show that school choice leads to better test scores for all students and higher graduation rates. They show that parents are more satisfied and involved with their child’s school, and that school choice saves taxpayers millions of dollars. And they show that public schools respond positively to competition.
But beyond the theory, what lies at the heart of school choice is a family’s freedom to choose. It is about the child in the back of the classroom who is not getting what he needs in his assigned public school. It is about the student who just doesn’t feel comfortable at her current school. It is about the family that simply wants a different option.
In the end, the goal of education is to ensure learning and guarantee a free society and stable democracy. These goals are better met when all parents are free to choose the school that works best for their child.
So, why school choice? In a word, liberty.
http://www.friedmanfoundation.org/schoolchoice/why.jsp
Larry
November 2nd, 2009
8:25 am
Mr. Roberts’ irony is going unappreciated. He asks, “But how does it make any sense for a district to retain state money for students it no longer teaches?”
This is, um, the plaintiffs’ position. The time when “none of the districts had any problem” was when all schools received full QBE funding for their own students. The extra state funding commission schools receive comes from QBE earnings for students who attend other schools. Personally, I find this organization’s inability to issue an on-topic position very disappointing.
Anyone who wants to read an intelligent, informed position statement should try this:
http://www.ivyprepacademy.org/61
Be aware that the scolding for “spin” applies to all of us who make public statements on this situation.
Singing to the Choir
November 2nd, 2009
8:36 am
You have to wonder why they have taken the route they have when the charter schools are suceeding. Personally I think the School Supers should be elected, the board in Cobb doesn’t stand by their promises that get them elected. I understand the constitutional arguments, but I believe the money should follow the child. Then maybe the public schools would work harder to meet the needs of the child instead of dismissing parents involvement other than writing of checks to the school.
Tony Roberts
November 2nd, 2009
8:51 am
To ATLNATIVE: Thanks for reminding the readers of how the educational establishment thinks as you give the same well-worn arguments that we have been hearing for years. And you are entitled to your opinions. But when did someone have to be an elected-official to voice their opinion? Are you an elected official? Is that why you have the right to voice your opinion? Your worn-out ideas about how education is funded and efficiency through large classes in huge schools are the kind of thinking that have resulted in some of the worst student achievement and graduation rates in the nation. THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN. We need to try new ideas. And the time for charter schools to have a larger place in school innovation for Georgia has arrived. You and others complain that your local school board members are elected officials. You rightly suggest that the public elect new local school board members if they want more charter schools. I could not agree with you more. The general public has been complacent with local school boards and have not expected much of them after elected. VOTERS: remember that you can elect new school board members who will listen to the people who elected them, instead of rubber-stamping the district superintendent. Thank you Jeff Spicoli for beating me to the point you made that members of our state legislature and the governor are also elected officials. ATLNATIVE: What is your idea for improving our educational system? Doing what we have always done will not somehow, someday produce a better result.
ATLNative
November 2nd, 2009
8:52 am
Tony, I don’t think you read the entirety of my arguments. I would certainly NOT consider myself part of the educational establishment and I actually have a very favorable view of charter schools. My goal is apply a logical sensible approach that protects the taxpayers’ rights to accountability while permitting well run charters to be established. I would hope that any court that hears these cases follows the same standard as well. You are right, non-elected officials are entitled to their opinions and I support your right to publicize your opinions. The 3 part answer to your first question is 1. No, I am not an elected official. 2. Yes, I have the right to voice my opinion. 3. No, I do not have the right to unilaterally pass legislation that would impact the tax burden of my neighbors. So, let’s move on the constitutional issues, which is important because that is the point of the lawsuits.
I introduced several ideas in my original argument (referendum on a state run charter commission, subsequent elections of commission members) which would essentially achieve what you want plus the added accountability from voters. What are your thoughts on my ideas? Also, I never advocated huge classes and huge schools – that’s not the gist of the fixed cost model. The main point was that it’s not as simple as “money following the students” because schools, no matter how large or how small, don’t scale in a way that is conducive to huge swings in enrollment in either direction. Like you said, unfortunately, some schools are still failing and their students do deserve better choices. Do you think a state run commission that is appointed or an elected commission is in a better position to weight the pros and cons of implementing a charter?
I can understand your passion/drive to fix our schools. But for me and many others, how we go about fixing it is just as important as the end goal. And I’m certainly open to ideas that would address the constitutional issue and create a favorable environment for charters. For example, I read your post and I’m still confused as to why my argument is “well-worn”? If you mean that I am hesitant to rush to a solution that is not properly considered in the context of all the community participants (taxpayers, students, teachers, etc.), then yes, it may be well-worn. But I like to think that these arguments are ones that a court will have to consider and that most swing voters are thinking through.
Susan
November 2nd, 2009
9:03 am
I’ve seen both worlds. One of my children graduated from a Fayette County high school. The other attended both Fayette and Coweta counties’ schools. We moved to Bulloch County two school years ago.
We visited the middle schools and CCAT (the charter school) and we all agreed — our daughter, my husband and myself — that CCAT was the best place for her to finish middle school. No more big classes with little or no personal attention, no more teaching to the test, etc.
But, now is the time for the high school decision — does she stay at CCAT or attend Statesboro High School? There are pros and cons to both, but CCAT is winning the contest (if there really is a contest). In fact, we’ve been told by parents with children at Statesboro High that if we can’t get her into Honors classes, she will be lost, just another number. Yes, she can play sports there, but at CCAT, she can study Italian, French and Spanish, progress in Math at her own level, participate in the same social studies and economics programs as at other schools, take off on a field trip where the whole school visits Atlanta and the state capitol, walk the “ghost” streets of Savannah, work with university students on international projects, walk to the public library and read to elementary children and more.
Are charter schools, like CCAT, for everyone? No, it takes a certain amount of responsibility on the part of the student and a commitment from the parents. However, many mature into the responsibility of keeping track of their own work, trying their best and growing beyond the standard curriculum. And, yes, there are tests — the CRCT, the IBTS, the Technology test (for 8th graders), the GA graduation tests, and probably more.
So, don’t worry about petty politics. We are all here to make sure our students become productive GA citizens and if that means the money follows the student then so be it.
Undecided
November 2nd, 2009
9:09 am
I have to admit, I am hugely on the fence on this one. I have to agree though, that ATLNative brings up some very well constructed points that make sense to me. I like the idea of accountability and I do think that the fact that board members aren’t responsive to community concerns is an indictment on the electorate rather than something fundamentally wrong with the concept of local control.
Tony, a few questions. Is there any reason the charter commission has to be appointed by the governor rather than elected? I have to think that yes, our governor and reps are elected, but they are not the ones calling the shots after they appoint these people. Even our supreme court justices, after they are appointed have to run for reelection every few years. Honestly, the idea of appointed members not responsive to voters is rather scary for me. Maybe a similar structure could be followed with such a commission. And if we want to ensure some local accountability we could make the commission members representatives of different regions in Georgia. My mindset is that schools do take a certain amount of money to run well and ATLNative, I understand where your fixed cost model fits into the picture (hence the interest in promoting taxpayer accountability). I was thinking if it might be possible to create a stipulation that charters that reach a certain size would receive full funding (having been determined to be viable) whereas charters that are not should restructure. I have no idea if this will work but I can see how a school might be very well run and not economical (a school with a couple million dollar budget with small class sizes because of few students). It does concern me as a taxpayer and it’s a problem I’m looking for answers for before committing one way or another.
Jake
November 2nd, 2009
9:30 am
Interesting, I’m still thinking through this one. Tony, I was with you until I read through ATLNative’s posts, which are pretty well-thought out and reasoned. You seem to agree that local school boards are the problem. Why not just get voters to replace them – wouldn’t that be problem solved? Especially in metro atlanta, I think we have some schools that work well and others that don’t. Is there a reason we should gut the whole house instead of just fixing the parts (school boards) that are broken?
CharterStarter
November 2nd, 2009
9:50 am
The Georgia School Boards Association – which did NOT testify during the hearings for the bill that eventually established the Georgia Charter Schools Commission – has been circulating a resolution opposing the Commission and supporting the lawsuit, and GSBA has been encouraging school boards statewide to pass the resolution in public votes, whether or not they have students in Commission-authorized schools.
The status quo is circling its wagons. It appears that “change” is only good for one party in one national election.
Also of interest, to underline a point made by CEO Roberts: for its August 1 deadline for new charter applications, the Georgia Charter Schools Commission received 35 charter applications. The other state-level authorizer (the State Board of Education) received only 14. Charter applicants are seemingly coming out of the woodwork, and the establishment is acting like it sees a tidal wave.
So now it’s a crisis. The school boards had their chance during the hearings to be heard for free, or for only the fairly modest fee they all pay their association to represent them. They chose not to, and now five of them are using the same local dollars they use to pay teachers to sue the state instead.
If they had wanted to nip this in the bud, school boards could have tried a little harder two years ago…
Gwinnett County Resident
November 2nd, 2009
10:14 am
Jeff, d and ATLNative, great job to all of you on well-written posts. Does anyone have numbers to quantify the impact these charter schools in question have on their respective districts? I’m a numbers guy and seeing those numbers would heavily influence my opinion on this. If the charter schools take x dollars away from Gwinnett Public Schools, how does the district determine which schools the cuts are passed through to and how do these schools then respond to the corresponding cuts. In the interest of providing an equitable “adequate” education, I am concerned about a potential scenario arising where we are helping a select group of students (that have motivated parents, students, etc.) at the expense of the students left at the failing schools. When you have a fixed sum of money, this is unfortunately the result of creating new schools.
It's Simple: The Money Follows the Child!
November 2nd, 2009
11:46 am
With all due respect, ATLNative, I can see why you are a “former” economist. You don’t need an MBA or even an undergrad degree in economics to see that in the state financing of education, i.e. public education, THE MONEY FOLLOWS THE CHILD! No need for you or anyone else to try to make it more difficult than it is.
We all know that the QBE formula is this nebulous, almost mystical system for public school financing. Be that as it may, it still comes down to the simple premise that THE MONEY FOLLOWS THE CHILD.
People move freely from one county to another (sometimes from one STATE to another), and thereby one school system to another, all the time in order to pursue what they consider to be a better public education for their child/children. And the state dollar amount for educating that child/children goes with them to their new school and school district.
The only difference here is that, potentially, families are not forced to pick up and move to another county/school district, if there is a charter school — Commission approved or otherwise — within their county/district. Charter schools and the State Charter Commission are providing families and communities throughout Georgia with public school choice.
On the Sidelines
November 2nd, 2009
11:57 am
I’m in favor of charter schools but with all due respect, to the poster above, we should not be attacking other posters personally based on our disagreements with them on issues. I don’t feel strongly about this issue but I thought that that ATLNative’s logic was pretty sound. He’s saying that nothing is as simple as money follows the child because schools have to have a certain critical mass in order to make the numbers work. And to be fair, I think that the idea of voters holding the people in charge of education accountable through elections is a pretty good idea. I WANT charter schools but I worry about the movement based on the lack of reasoned responses of some of the pro-charter school people on this blog. We won’t ever win a court case or people on the fence by attacking people personally or by falling back on simple slogans…
CharterStarter, too
November 2nd, 2009
12:05 pm
Hmmmmm….so much food for thought. d, let me understand you…you’re saying that a school board member who is supposed to REPRESENT their constituency should have the right to ignore the clear and compelling support of local, tax paying parents (who they respresent) who want to open or attend a charter school? Come on. Charter schools can only open if there is a market established – and clearly for the 2 schools involved in this lawsuit, a market is present.
That does not mean that EVERY charter should be opened. Local schools board should have a rigorous process for authorizing high quality charter schools. No one argues that point. Everyone involved in the charter movement is dedicated to ensuring that the schools are high quality institutions – because if they aren’t, then 1) they’ll be closed down and 2) it tears down the whole movement. The problem is that some of the districts refuse to provide a fair and equitable review process. This was evident a few of years ago when 100% of the petitions were denied. 100%! (which is how the Commission came into existence). It’s also evident through the “rallying of the troops” with the GSBAon joining the lawsuit. It’s all about the money leaving the district and the “authority”. Let me say this plainly. The money DOES NOT BELONG TO THE DISTRICT! The board members are stewards of the money. And let me add that it’s not about authority, it’s about what works for kids!
To the economist, please. Economies of scale? As a charter school founder and operator, I get it when it comes to economy of scale. Charters do end up paying higher rates for facilities and some services that districts due to their size. Contrary to your expert economist theories, charters operate with less funding…without economies of scale…and overall have better academic results. How in the world can you argue about “economy of scale” being a benefit when return on the investment is so poor? Again, it’s not about the money, it’s about the kids and their achievment!
Someone was asking for data about charters. There was an interesting study in Illinois about the economic impact of charter schools in communities…here’s the big picture of the impact of a high quality charter school: Community Impacts
Increased real estate value
Reduction of high school dropouts
Increased college attendees and graduates
Includes social service savings: lower healthcare, unemployment, and incarceration expenses
Expansion of public education funding
District Impacts
District revenue losses
Increased state transition aid
Reduced marginal student expenses
Reduced per pupil education expenses
Reduced class sizes at district schools
Reduced facilities needs and costs
Reduced teacher pension and benefits costs
Reduced district operational costs
And if you’re looking for cold hard figures, the study reported:
The annual financial benefit to the community of turning one high school drop-out into one college graduate is enormous, ranging from $38,400 to $42,000 per graduate per year*
In the community studied, 5-year Community Economic Benefit:
$9,384,619
Impact to the school district in the community studied: 5-year District Impact:
(decrease in funds controlled)
$(2,963,486)
So, as you can see, the return on the investment to the community clearly outweighs the cost to the district. And this doesn’t even count the social costs saved (prisons, welfare, etc.) Mind you, this is in Illinios; however, the point is well taken that charters ADD VALUE to communities.
Related to the Commission….all the Commission does is allows a fair and non-political process for charter review and authorization. The folks appointed have nothing to gain by approving or denying petitions….and they do have a heavy obligation to only approve quality schools. And contrary to what was posted, they DO have oversight – by the State BOE who ALSO has to authorize the charters after the Commission.
You know, this is not a matter of consitutionality. The law has been passed and was reviewed many times by constitutional attorneys before it was passed. It’s the law and the districts should be following it.
Charters have such great potential to creating a rising tide of academic achievement across our state – they aren’t the only answer, but it’s certainly a part of the solution. Why not partner with the charters in a collaborative manner and use the opportunities the charter law provides to further the success of the district? We should all be supporting whatever it takes to raise achievement in our state!
Marie
November 2nd, 2009
12:29 pm
I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels this way, but it seems to me that many of you are obscuring ATLNative’s arguments. The way I see it, he supports charters, wants boards that authorize them be held accountable by voters and thinks that more local control is the best solution for comparing the benefits of charters against the negative impact they have on the rest of the school district. He then says that if this is not good enough, have a referendum followed by elections for the statewide commission and he’ll go along. I agree with the other posters that this position is very reasonable and well-thought out approach. Is there anything wrong with voters making the final decision?
Fulton Commuter
November 2nd, 2009
12:44 pm
Marie, thanks for posting that – I share your views. Actually, I thought that Jeff, d, and atlnative’s posts all made very strong arguments. What I don’t understand is why in the haste to create charters, proponents of the state commission do not address the voting issue – the point of charters is to give taxpayers more say and what better way to do that than through voting?
Convince me
November 2nd, 2009
1:00 pm
I’m another one of those with no bone to chew in this debate. Just looking through the posts, though I consider the arguments of those opposed to the state commission a little bit stronger. I just don’t see a need for a state commission to get involved in something that local boards are capable of doing. If they’re not approving enough charters, replace them! Then, problem solved. Adding a whole other layer of bureaucracy just strikes me as a waste of money and resources.
Keep Schools in Local Hands!
November 2nd, 2009
1:20 pm
It is pretty clear to me having read both sides that the districts do have a case and a very good one.
Larry
November 2nd, 2009
1:23 pm
@ Gwinnett County Resident,
The amount Ivy Prep received in excess of QBE formula earnings (i.e. the amount deducted from GCPS’ QBE earnings) was $302,480 for about 200 students. This is approximately 50 per cent over QBE formula funding.
To estimate the impact on a given school system, you need to know the total amount of QBE funding, the total student population and select the number of students who would attend a commission school. For example:
Last year, Dekalb had ten charter schools serving five per cent of their student population. Five of the ten are independent start-up schools, which could re-file as commission schools, placing 2.5% of Dekalb’s student population under the currently contested method of commission school funding.
Dekalb’s FY2010 budget estimates QBE funding at $491 million. If these five charter schools convert to commission schools, they will receive 2.5% of this amount for the students who attend their schools. The additional 50 per cent granted to commission schools, which is deducted from Dekalb’s remaining funding, amounts to 1.25% of total state funding, or about $6 million.
Please keep in mind this is just a rough estimate which will likely overstate the effect. QBE funding includes factors like transportation, which the typical charter school doesn’t provide, and FTE factors for kids with disabilities, which are typically a low percentage of a charter school’s population. This means the typical charter school student is less expensive to educate and earns less QBE funding than an “average” host county school student.
It’s complicated, but I hope this helps.
Marie
November 2nd, 2009
1:31 pm
CharterStarter, can you link to that study? Did the authors of the study have a vested interest in promoting one side or the other and what were the circumstances surrounding that study?
It's Simple: The Money Follows the Child!
November 2nd, 2009
1:37 pm
“On the Sidelines”:
If you think that my comments about ATLNative being a “former economist” were an insult, then that’s your burden to bear. The fact remains that bringing up the QBE formula does nothing but muddy the issue, which is that THE MONEY FOLLOWS THE CHILD. Period.
And to “Marie”, “Fulton Commuter”, and “Convince Me”:
There would have been no need for the Commission had the local boards done their jobs and approved the quality charter applications that many of them had before them at the time. The language in the bill (HB881) spells out the fact that school districts were deny quality charter petitions for no good reason other than “not being in the best interest of the district.” No other rationale was needed. The boards said it, so that was the end of it.
And to your argument about “voting in board members that support charters”:
School board members hold office anywhere from three to seven years, depending on the district. So all of you are saying that children should be forced to WAIT on quality educational options until an election can be held?
To put your argument in real terms, the parents of a first grader, who live in a county with a school board that is unwelcoming of charter schools but would like to see a charter school in their district, must – conceivably – wait until their child is a fourth grader or maybe even older to have an opportunity at public school choice. Really? What’s happening to that child’s academic development while his parents “wait” for another school board election?
If “The Money Follows the Child” is too simplistic to be an argument in this issue (it’s simple, but true), then “Vote Them Out” is a “slogan” that is even worse.
Discourse
November 2nd, 2009
1:55 pm
@Marie
I don’t feel the poster’s are attempting to obscure ATLNative’s arguments. My position is the State of GA legislature along with our govenor (after I’m sure several constitutional law experts) looked over the benefits of forming this commission and the power they mandated over to them. If we as constituents of this state have a problem with the law passed by our elected officials we have the right and an obligation to not re-elect them. Suing the charter schools that followed the rules established by the GA BOE and the State of GA doesn’t seem to be reasonable at all. It seems spiteful.
FairTax Now
November 2nd, 2009
2:01 pm
Actually, It’s that Simple, it’s really not that simple: I would argue that the money follows those who pay for them (i.e. taxpayers). And not all taxpayers have children. I don’t have school aged children yet but I still pay taxes that go to support public schools. I’d want to have a direct say in whether charter schools are authorized or not. If you want annual school board elections, that’s fine with me. But I like the idea that elections should still determine the presence of a state run commission.
Also, correct me if I’m wrong but Ivy Prep’s charter denial by the GCPS was because the county did not want to support an all-girls school (based on what I read from Ivy Prep’s website). Adopting single gender schools is controversial and potentially “not in the best interests of the district” from a legal perspective.
CharterStarter, too
November 2nd, 2009
2:37 pm
The research was conducted by Public Impact. Public Impact is a national education policy and management consulting firm based in Chapel Hill, N.C. The research group is non-partisan and focused on improving existing public schools and opening high quality new ones.
It's Really Not That Simple
November 2nd, 2009
2:43 pm
After reading these posts and doing some research online, I have to take the districts’ side in this debate not because I’m huge fans of their educational systems but because we need a localized, rather than a state regulated one size fits all approach to charter schools. I’ve spoken to many residents in my neighborhood and charter schools are not anywhere near as popular as proponents make them out to be. Many people simply trust their elected school boards much more than they trust state politicians to handle education for their child. I can see why proponents for the state commission might fear losses at the ballot box if they put this up for a vote but in a democracy, voters and not bureaucrats should be calling the shots.
Pointless Argument
November 2nd, 2009
3:10 pm
This debate underscores exactly why government shouldn’t be involved in education at all. Parents that have to pay tuition for their children’s education will be more vested in their children’s education. I say get rid of school taxes, public schools and switch to a private school only model. We don’t need this back and forth about which government schools are better than other government schools every day. In the end all it amounts to is people not paying their fair share – the average cost to educate a child is 7-10k a year; how much property tax does the average homeowner pay every year???
Wow
November 2nd, 2009
3:54 pm
I was initially in favor of this state commission but wow – I gotta give credit to opponents of the state run commission for having some very logical and persuasive arguments in favor of their case (the accountability through elections and local control arguments were well done). To be honest, I did not anticipate the opposition to be this well organized and cohesive in their message and I’m actually wavering a bit in my support for this commission.
As for Pointless, I hope you understand that public schools are important because not everyone can afford private and the benefits they produce for society (a well educated workforce that can innovate and produce leading edge products) are ones that you benefit from everyday in your life. The benefit to society of educating a child is far greater than the 7-10k figure you just threw out there.
Warrior Woman
November 2nd, 2009
4:11 pm
There is also a strong constitutional argument that by prohibiting choice for the students of failing schools, the boards of education are violating the state constitution’s requirement that “The provision of an adequate public education for the citizens shall be a primary obligation of the state of Georgia.” If you don’t want a charter commission, the legislature could directly remove funds from boards of education that were putting roadblocks to charter school establishment. That would solve your voting concerns, but would make each determination a political minefield and would not serve the students of Georgia well.
Jennifer
November 2nd, 2009
4:18 pm
In order to vote out a majority of the school board members, it would take at best 5 years because of the rotating schedule. That means that the founding class of Ivy Prep would be in 11th grade and assigned by zip code to some lackluster schools. The girls can’t wait for elections.
As for the “all girls” school issue, the primary author of the revisions for Title IX which governs this issue produced an opinion for GCPS which said that this school was meeting the constitutional requirements. The reasoning from the board members after being provided the title IX opinion, was that an all girls school was immoral. Very constitutionally put don’t you think ?
The board will be voted out, but not in time to help these students or the thousands of others that are being denied a real choice in their education. 99% of schools making AYP – great if you as a parent or community member have bought into the mediocrity of that testing. To make a stronger point, GCPS governs the “success rate” of students by race. They have their stated expectations for minority student performance listed on each schools IE2 contracts. Many of these schools have put in writing that LESS than 20% of their minority students to score an “exceed” on the state tests over the next 5 years and that they will be increasing the racial student achievement gap. So if you are happy with that then I suppose you are getting an adequate education here in Gwinnett.
If you read every other charter petition in GCPS (including the independently operated ONE school) all are operating within all of GCPS policies.(and I have read them all) you will see that they are not independently operated, nor do they make independent decisions according to their charters. It was my observation (my student was involved with the inaugural recruiting for the Math and Science school’s first year of students) that there is also a bit of prescreening that is done for students wishing to enroll to ensure success and a “good match”. That is not free choice, that is gently urging or dissuading students and their families.